Does Khatra IGNORE Arrow Spine? | Asiatic Archery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2024
- One of the most iconic, defining identifiers of Asiatic archery, khatra is part of the simultaneous release practiced in many Middle Eastern styles of archery, famed for allowing archers to shoot a wide range of arrows. But does that mean you can ignore all modern understanding of arrow spine and flight?
Bow: Numair Krabby
Arrows: Alibow Carbon
Thumb Ring: Vermil Victory
Shirt: Maydaan Archery Club Australia
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"The closer the spine matches, the less it matters." This is hands-down the best video I've seen on Khatra. You display the advantages and disadvantages of Khatra, why and when it was first invented, and the difference between those times and modern day archery.
Years ago I taught archery classes and conducted/judged multi-state archery competitions. Have shot just about every kind of bow and style I could find. This is the first video that I've seen that presents Khatra in a balanced and realistic manner.
The one thing that wasn't mentioned is that of simple physics: when one twists the bow (or allows it to twist) in any direction, it changes the orientation of the string to the arrow, causing the direction of the string thrust to change. This is the primary flaw of Khatra. Now admittedly that happens in any style of archery, but is much more pronounced in Khatra, where the archer goes from having the string shoot relatively in line with the arrow to being greatly out of line with the arrow. Instead of a standard string-angle change of an inch or so, Khatra changes the angle of string-to-arrow by considerable amounts.
As with any type of archery, that can be compensated for-- and that is indeed covered in the video. You mention that Khatra is learned over time, can be difficult to learn to shoot consistently (as is the case with any form of archery), and it makes the archer the adjustment tool. So yes, archers can learn to shoot using Khatra. If one if just absolutely determined to shoot any spine and size of arrow from 200 to 800 randomly, Khatra may be somewhat of a solution-- but in my mind not a great one. We no longer live in an age where random-spine arrows are necessary... and Khatra does not compensate for varied arrow weights. Thus a matched-arrow set makes sense, whether shooting wood, aluminum or carbon arrows. And if the arrow's spine is correct that eliminates the ancient reason for Khatra.
I have seen both Mediterranean and thumb shooters hold the bow in one position, not altering it at all... and shoot very accurately when using correctly spined arrows. That's what correct arrow spine is for. And in this day and age of precision-made arrows, there is no need to do otherwise. Today we can easily access a nicely-balanced carbon, aluminum or even a wood-based arrow set with similar or identical spine, weight and length. Even if the arrow set isn't spined perfectly to the bow, it is easier to simply compensate for the altered flight than to learn a whole new shooting style. At least the flight will be relatively consistent within that arrow set.
I have shot Khatra in multiple styles. I have never found it to be as accurate as Mediterranean / Olympic style archery, nor as accurate as stable-bow thumb release. In truth, when I watch videos featuring Khatra I note that the arrows are regularly all over the target rather than being in a tight cluster. If I want to shoot all over the target I'll just haul back and shoot any arrow with any bow in any style I want... and the arrows will land all over the target. But if I want to hit consistently... Khatra is not what I'd choose as a preference. This video makes it clear that Khatra is not essential to modern archery equipment, and I have to agree.
So I appreciate very much how this video presents Khatra as a method of shooting... but is not a magic cure-all, nor even the "best way to shoot" that some instructors present it to be. I'm pretty sure if Khatra was the best and most accurate method of shooting, Olympic contenders would be using thumb rings and Khatra rather than the three-finger, stable Mediterranean style that we see used in professional tournaments.
If someone has developed Khatra and loves shooting Khatra, then that's fine for them. But Khatra is not a cure-all; it's just a style of archery. This video makes that clear in a sensible and well-presented manner, without denouncing the Khatra style completely. It shows both the pros and cons of the style, as it should. Excellent work.
You are one of the presenters that actually list the equipment used in the demonstration. Thank you and well done!
Your are making great work on this Chanel, you are covering techniques, fun facts and almost everithing in archery so every one can learn from your videos. I am watching your Chanel for about 3 years and it let me to decision to enter an archery club. I am very thankfull.
Really like this direction from your channel. You've covered all of the Olympic archery basics and now you're delving into more obscure forms of archery. Good stuff, glad you're back!
Second this, it's awesome 👌
I found that Khatra is more of a psychological help. If i focus on executing Khatra, I automatically focus more on proper back tension and chest expension thus archiving better form.
I found it khatra is unique make it more beautiful in physical movement of and also very interesting increase more power
It's definitely physical 😁
I've started thumb draw and khatra this summer, and already shoot it better than the western style (talking about instinctive shooting of course, can't compare to sights). I get annoyed when people talk about "timing it right". If you apply some torque on the bow before letting go of the string, then upon release the khatra will be performed, perfectly timed. No manual timing involved. Your hand/arm acts as a spring, and releases the khatra automatically. Whether the arrow hits the bow or not depends on a lot of parameters, such as the shape of the bow and amount of torque applied, but I can fairly easy make it so that the spine doesn't contact the bow, and it's easy to hear the difference.
I'll give my opinion based on my experience: khatra, when you get the technique down, makes the bow shoot more like a centreshot bow because it keeps the force exerted on the arrow nock by the string closer to top dead centre throughout the power stroke. The fact that khatra also "moves the bow out of the way" during the powerstroke also means the arrow has less "archer's paradox" to overcome. The combined effect is that you are able to shoot a wider range of arrow spines accurately and without potential safefty concerns, but even with khatra, there will still be such thing as an overspined arrow, and definitely still such thing as an underspined arrow.
Welcome back
once again you cover every side of the argument objectivly with NU-anced opinion great job i missed your videos good to see you doing well take it easy and keep up the good work!
NU sensei gone mystical this time. Nicely done torba
Oh hell yes! Nu Sensei is back!
Totally agree, I use khatra with a hankyu and to make it even harder ended up with too stiff arrows This forces me to get really good and consistent at the khatra or be completely frustrated with results. Slow improvements but very interesting process.
Welcome back master
Good informative video, clear concise and well presented thank you sir 😎🏹🙏
Great video. Good to have you back and doing well.
Interesting note is how Nusensei addresses positives and negatives. Different goals and approaches.
Yet you can read negative tones and bad attitudes in the comments.
People make comments due to their bias towards modern archery (improving the equipment)
Or their bias towards traditional archery (improving the archer)
Seeing those comments seems funny to me when Nusensei did a sufficient job in addressing khatra.
To each their own.
modern archery is the most accurate and consistent period.
But people like me love the aspect of improving ones self, the archer. I am a martial artist. The path of traditional archery gives me peace and also gets me excited.
And some people want to just hit the bullseye as much as they can, and that gets them excited.
Context is essential too. Often commentators romanticise historical archery and criticise modern archery for having to use modern tools to do what historical archers did. Historical archers were not drilling a 12cm spot at 70m. They were hopefully able to hit a target butt half the distance. The standards required less precision. Modern archers developed better tools to be better at achieving their specific purpose - scoring points. Historical archers had more practical goals that didn't require that degree of marksmanship. A historical archer would not outshoot a modern archer in modern competition. Take the tools away from the modern archer, and they'll shoot at the level of the historical archer.
@@NUSensei i agree. First time i picked up a compound. Bullseye.
I practice with a center shot recurve bow. It takes less practice to touch arrows in the gold.
It takes a lot more practice and concentration to use the asiatic bows. And the gold is hit a lot less consistently.
But when i hit, i fell a deeper sense of accomplishment. When i am touching arrows, im too excited. Like i said, to each their own. Cheers everyone.
@@NUSensei
I've been working on the wording of this .
I might get it right eventually.
That or I stole it with no idea from whom .
If it was you Nu ,I'm sorry .
" Culture is in the moment ,it is always present,built on the past ,never in the future.
Since once you get there it's the present.
Archery as a near universal technology,invented , adapted, and reinvented ,
Around the planet over thousands of years .
Regardless of the style n type of archery
Created in time and place ,it is always modern in the present .
We are modern archers .
Because we are in the present ,practicing an art , regardless of style , technology , place ,and purpose .
(I'm still trying to find an ending .
And it's rough ,needs tweaking .)
Btw a well executed khatra ,looks awesome
Even if it's not needed or as Goa ying commented "wasted flash " ( paraphrase)
Cheers Nu .
Are you really sure that modern archery is only improving equipment? Equipment is improved but archers with modern equipment level sure have to train and improve their archer-self, arguably, way more than traditional archers! Just because the equipment is better doesn't mean it is less so on the user part, you have to be even better to make use of better equipment for the expected results.
@@domovoibutler42 th-cam.com/video/UBMDxjHFmRw/w-d-xo.html
Your point is kinda flawed .
Check out this nature of thing episode
Comparing elite athletes from different eras
And their kit .
Hey you're back. Glad you are ok
Well said Nu. Glad to see someone describe this technique for what it is. I agree, khatra sounds like an exotic magical technique but it is merely torqueing the bow. It is lateral tension, a potential source of inconsistency, especially when the archer is under pressure or gets excited. I regard it as a necessary evil to achieve generally better arrow flight with certain types of equipment. There is nothing better than well tuned equipment loosed with inline form.
In my experience, what exactly is involved in order to achieve "khatra" varies from one type of bow to the next. With my Turkish and Tatar style bows, once I learned to draw the bow by pushing and pulling and to keep my bow hand relaxed, I discovered that khatra happens naturally on its own, perhaps because of the way the bow handles are shaped. Not performing khatra with these bows is something I have to force. Doing that feels awkward and unnatural and the effect is decreased accuracy and consistency. With my Manchu bow, achieving khatra is something I've found I have to work at, because it doesn't - at least in my experience, arise naturally. With the manchu bow, I can achieve khatra through back tension and expanding - in a much more deliberate way - through the release.
@@mimas3346 Thank you Mimas. I appreciate that you share your experience in relation to my comment. I am primarily trained as a western style archer and hold strongly to its virtues. However I do enjoy shooting in Asiatic style and agree that it does have a natural flow feeling to it. I feel that the western style has the edge in straight up accuracy, for several reasons, but yet when rapid loosing is required, the Asiatic style is highly effective. The fluid motion is ideal in horse back archery where motion is everything with horse and archer harmonizing as one. Cheers.
Happy that you are back making educational and fun content. I just recalculated the correct arrow spine for me and my bow. Maybe a video on that could be helpful. The lookup tables from the arrow mfgs don't include arrow pass that makes a big difference for more traditional bows.
Very glad you are back
Good to see you back with more informative videos
Daaaaaaamn. Another vid! We are lucky! Thanks @NUSensei!
This is so useful. Especially when you decide to go all the way by wood arrows. The various spine on that particular arrows were very vast. Thank You
I practice traditional Korean archery and we hold the bow a little different in that the bow arm tendons are primed to flick the bow on release. I don't muscle the bow flick, it just happens due to the shape of the hand that forms the grip. I suppose that is a form of khatra? I can shoot this way better than I can a bow with a shelf but I have less time on the latter.
that's exactly what khatra is, it's all in the grip, it's not a quick flick after release as described in the video. The bow must be torqued(forced to rotate) while drawing and it will consequently start to rotate when the release happens on it's own.
I used stiffer unflethed arrow for my bow to train for khatra so that I will get the idea of how much power I need to grip and tork the handle while drawing the arrow.
Stiffer arrow, with no khatra or failed khatra will show extreme signs and the arrow will lean more to the left at the target. Then, if I shoot with good release and perfect khatra, the arrow is straight at the target.
Yes, I shot thousands of stiff, unfletched arrows until I felt comfortable with khatra/expanding release. It's worth doing and a lot of fun! And I still have a long way to go to reach true competence, of course.
Good to see, that you are back, bless you, hope you doing well.
Its great to see you back. I am a novice archer and love the content and your presenting style. Thanks
Probably the best video about khatra and its purpose I have ever seen!
I pull my hand back and let the string slide off my ring. At the same time I push forward with my bow arm and subconsciously my body reflects the force and direction of my release hand in the opposite direction with my bow arm. I feel that my Khatra is just a result of push pull and I just don't try to keep my bowarm up and straight like I do when shooting western Mediterranean styles. I tried learning the Korean method first when I switched to thumb draw and the basic philosophy is to split your body down the middle and push equally on both sides (pretty much common practice in all archery styles) and the long flowing release 'like a tiger's tail unfolding' is reflected across the body and mirrored with Khatra. At least this is how I see and feel it when I shoot. Great to have you back NuSensei!
This is an excellent video, it explains why there are so many videos and so many people that say that khatra is useless; one cannot simply try it once and see world changing results. It took me months to see any benefit and it is a difficult skill to master.
Thank u so much @nusensei i learned a lot. Im new to archery, practice for 3 weeks now I reckon with modern recurve. I love the badass-ry of compound bows of modern archers, but im also amazed about traditional/historical archery. I think i am more inclined towards the classic style...
Nicely explanied, Sir.
I use front to side Khatra. You could see it in every Video I upload on TH-cam.
Thank you for making this video :)
Kindest regards
Excellent explanation and properly historically contextualized
Great to see you make another video! Really good explanation! I like that you’ve tied it into why it was necessary in the past and why modern Olympic archers don’t do it.
Over the last couple of years I’ve been exploring asiatic archery, mostly around Chinese historical styles. I found it difficult to get clearance with spine alone and put a lot of wear onto my arrow pass early on. I tried some of the active khatra techniques and still couldn’t get clearance.
I’ve ended up finding that it’s required adding passive khatra for my particular bow to achieve clearance. As you touched on in the video not every discipline approved of bow hand movement as part of follow through and Gao Ying was famously scathing of it, teaching that “the bow hand does not react” to it. I recall the instructor from Maydaan mentioning it in your video about visiting Ascension, where you can also get that side khatra without active hand movement by relying on the grip. I’ve found it really good for achieving that clearance.
Another way you can demonstrate the effect of khatra on arrow clearance is to record some slow motion video with a tripod positioned behind you a bit above shoulder height and shooting bareshafts from 5-10 metres back. Even with a frame rate as low as 240 frames per second it’s really noticeable when you have arrow slap because the tail goes a long way off. You could repeat it with a few different arrow spines. I think viewers might appreciate that.
This was an excellent video explaining something I've been curious about for a while
You should take a look at Bucellarius' videos on Byzantine archery, I think I speak for some others too when I saw we would love to hear your thoughts on it!
Nice Maydaan Archery Club Australia hoodie! Always love your videos; keep up the good work!
I love your new releases! Great to see you back!
WOW! Great, knowledgeable coverage of an interesting and certainly contentious topic. I love everything you said and pretty much agree with all your conclusions.
My own half-baked experiments with sets of different spine arrows with the same bow seem to show that spine is pretty much irrelevant with a decent expanding release. Any variation in arrow flight is due much more to imperfections in my own release than to the properties of the arrow. (I made a crappy video about this called "spine doesn't matter for horsebows).
I'm not sure I agree with your ultimate conclusion, however: I don't really think it's worth deliberately selecting a spine to match your horsebow. In fact, learning to overcome a stiff arrow via technique is a critical component of the style, in my opinion. Using stiff arrows will penalize you for mistakes, forcing you to become better.
I like to imagine that a proficient ancient thumb shooter would have always preferred the stiffest arrow available, limited of course by arrow mass and materials.
Thank you for everything you do for us.
More videos on traditional Asiatic archery please, will be a loyal viewer
Great video! Really like how you compare modern times with the historical application of the usage, well thought out and clear explanation. Good content here
Interesting. Thank for the video!
Wow! Great lesson Sensei 🙏🏼 Namaste
Not just Khatra but archery as a whole requires a pursuit of perfection for the development of skill.
Welcome back King
Really awesome video addressing khatra and spine. My friends and I have noticed that overspined arrows can be used with khatra. Fun stuff.
As far as timing, i very slightly pre torque, for me it works and im accurate with it.
l like mystical god teir just because its cool. Good to see you back. FOr me I can 100% tell when I get that perfect khatra shot, and it feels amazing. I use a Korean thumb ring, with the "short male" appendage, its so stable, and lets me hold heavy weight easily and for a longer time.
Yeah same here, I get a better lock with the male thumb ring, the female one moves around a bit more.
shooting straight thx to khatra is so satisfying
great explanation
I am sure all the experts, who dont actually shoot Asiatic bows or have only ever shot one bow will have various "expert" comments. Here is my take, I shoot thumb draw and basically agree with what you are saying, personally, I dont think of khatra or emphasize it, have seen the technique over emphasised in some peoples shooting, I guess I do a form of it, that works for me, and can see it, when I video my shooting, I have experimented with empathizing it more, the downwards for example, with my very short Turkish bow, tbh with my bows and arrows, didn't help, but sideways, for me, does improve a little bit, but think many other aspects more important, does take practice, and people shouldnt over think it.
as I see in the slow motion: you turn the bow--using khatra- too late. you turn the bow AFTER the arrow had passed the bow. there can`t be no effekt on the arrow flight
Thank you. This argument was getting quite tedious. It’s nice to have a voice of reason
Its not just khatra, stringtwist and how you turn arrow
Video request: Slavic draw and variables to get ideal arrow flight and impact.
Great video, thanks!
Man. What an excellent explanation
Thanks a lot, very well explained and demonstrated 😀
it can be pretty consistent if you dont overdoit. you really dont need that amount of motion for kathra to be effective. clearence is achived in the first few inches of the movement. anything beyond that is unnecesary movement more appropriate for movies than real life situations.
I think.. someone in the ancient past probably figured out that it was easier to make heavy/stiff arrows than it was to make variations. So that everyone shot the same, khatra or not. At least that's my current understanding with my day to day study of khatra. I pretty much agree with everything here. There are things you can do to your bow to help with consistency too. Like adding a 'shelf' lol yes on the right side of the bow. I know that sounds weird.
As you say, I am going to explain khatra as my way of having a plunger button. It's not perfect; but I want to see how far I can take myself. It's far more challenging and interesting than other variations of archery to me.
Great explanation, thx.
I shoot Asiatic (horse) bows and I use thumb draw/release, as a right handed shooter I have experimented with khatra and have found that a slight flick of the left wrist to the left, keeping the arm straight, to be sufficient for arrows to fly straight, however I have noticed that left handed shooters don't need to do khatra for arrows to fly straight.
I'm a left-handed traditional bow thumb draw shooter, and I can assure you, if I have an arrow that is over- or underspined for my bow and I don't use khatra to correct for that, the arrow is not going clear the bow well or fly straight. Traditional bows aren't any more "handed" than darts or bowling balls.
Correct me if I'm wrong but 08:37 slow-mo looks like (almost) no khatra-related movement happens with the bow before the arrow clears it completely. And I see it time and again on slow-mo footages of this technique. Doesn't look like there's any "getting out of the way" being involved.
One thing I've noticed is that you get a bow movement like this naturally from holding it with "the grasp of 99". Your little and ring fingers pull the bottom of the handle back, and the base of your thumb pushes the top forward. Rechecking "Saracen archery" comments now, I see the English translators coming to the same conclusion. It seems khatra is more of a logical follow-through of the grasping technique and a way to properly and consistently channel the pressure in the bow arm (which, in turn, unavoidably affects accuracy) than any adjustment for the arrow spine.
That is indeed the point being shown. There's a mythos around how khatra allows you to ignore arrow spine, but it's not a perfect technique. The slow-mo shows that when mistimed and done improperly, the arrow clearly hits the bow. In comparison to the real-time footage, which looks like an immediate snap, the slow-mo shows a significant delay between release and khatra. A lot of shooters don't realise this interaction because they can't see the flight of the arrow.
Perhaps to rephrase the question slightly, would using khatra give the archer more forgiveness when shooting non matched splines and bows?
Yes, that's what he's saying. Or to turn it around: carefully matching the spine to your horsebow can be a way to compensate for improper technique.
But good luck finding a spine chart for 36" arrows!
That movement is not only in the eastern archery, my people here on the Balkans do that too. It's more useful on a horseback but it's used on foot too. It does make sense when you use it along with mediterranean draw or a thumb ring, because of the string twist, however, we slavs pinch the arrow so there's no string twist when we shoot, yet we use it too. Odd.
Maybe there's more to it that is lost in time.
How heavy can you shoot with a pinch?
@@sinanovic11 My heaviest bow is 70lb, it took me some practice but I now shoot it with ease. My guess is that I may be able to draw even 80-90lb.
Kyodo has its version, but they knew the stress you put on the bow
You can find many different forms of khatra all over the world. There are many american indian tribes that use different forms of it.
You should practice with a low weight bow like 30. You don’t need to do the whole bow forward movement at the end of your shot as the arrow is gone before you have to move the stave like that. A low powered bow will really hone your bow skills.
And to understand exactly what the sting and string does to any shaft with feathers.
What's your opinion on left vs right vs straight fletchings? Does it matter when using thumb draw? Also, does it matter using single bevel broadheads? Thank you for your content.
No one has answered this after a year, so I'll take a stab at it. The simple answer is that you can use either, so long as you are consistent. Don't mix feather types on the same arrow. For better consistency (psychologically), use the same type of feather in your entire set of arrows-- which eliminates spin direction as a factor (in our minds). However...
There is some controversy about this concept. But to my knowledge, there's no real science to support the controversy. The truth is that the arrows do no have time to start spinning before they clear the bow; that happens afterward. So whether you use left or right fletchings would seem irrelevant-- so long as you are consistent in which you use. You can even mix both types of arrow in a set and still experience good results. Because the fact is: it doesn't matter which direction the arrow spins... just so long as it spins. (Some people deny that the spin actually affects the arrow at all, but that's a whole 'nuther debate.) ;D Truth is, the wind probably affects your arrow flight more than the type of feather you use.
I use khatra but have to match the arrow spine as well... but khatra drains out stamina very quickly ... and often use at short range
Thanks dude!
Would you be able to show some slow motion footage of arrows of various spines shot from the same bow with khatra.
That's funny a video about khatra when I am so deep inside asiatic archery now.. My 2 000 euros bow hasn't been touched since I started a year ago..
very interesting video. Thank you Sensei
Bro do you even khatra! 😅😅
Really well said David, love it
NUSensai, i recently got a Turkish bow, but i'm having difficulties with finding an arrow pass for it.
do you have any recommendations? (the bow came without grip or arrow pass)
Basically change the error in your ways, not the ways that you error in.
That was awesome.
"This video up here" is not showing a video any more..? Also: welcome back.
I’m looking for a way to choose spine for traditional asiatic bows, because modern table tends to not cover heavy draw weight or/and long draw. Any help ?
Khatra techniques are the NFTs of the asiatic archery world
I have noticed arrow spine doesn't mean much for me when thumb shooting. I do notice a difference in how much pressure I can put on it when drawing to get a nice clean flight but that is about it. Is it Khatra or is it just the nature of thumb draw I don't know? Khatra does seem to give me a better shot then no khatra though.
I am using the highest spine/stiffest arrows I could find (>700) so I immediately see if I mess up my Khatra, because I want to be able to properly execute it. Any opinions on that?
For that kind of spine rating higher is actually softer. 200-300 is about the stiffest you can easily find. 700 is quite soft, probably not good for bows over 30lbs
typically spine gets stiffer as the number goes down…. that means too many variables as your arrow bends too much. use a stiff bareshaft to study your khatra.
i like how this channel has less olympic archery now
Can u make video how to aim with horsebow please...
Nice bow how much price & full detail
I am new to archery and this was super fascinating. Did I understand it correctly (9:33) that khatra is ONLY needed if the bow and arrow isn't perfectly matched?
PS What you say at 11:18 was a beautiful way to formulate it.
In essence, yes. The purpose of khatra was to improve arrow clearance, something that was more difficult to achieve with the technology at the time. In modern times, we are more spoilt with centre-cut bows and mass-produced straight arrows. Khatra allows some mitigation to prevent poor arrow clearance.
Thanks@@NUSensei In Kyudo the bow is also "allowed to rotate". And a Kyudo bow, as you know, doesn't have a cut-out for the arrow. Do you think the rotation of the bow (which seems to accomplish something similar to khatra) would not be necessary with a perfectly matching yumi and arrow? I guess I could ask the same question about shooting with a traditional longbow.
@@stefanhansen5882 In theory yes, but yumi have a right-side string off-set that forces the rotation.
Thanks again@@NUSensei! Do you know of any other bow with a side string off-set? And are you saying that this right-side string off-set is the "Kyudo way" of accomplishing arrow clearance and an arrow which doesn't venture to the side of the target?
🍻 👍
The one thing that I've noticed is that there is no wrist-slap like happens in western archery because the bow string swings outward. That puts less wear and tear on the string, the bow, and the archer. The English longbow was used for proximity shooting like modern artillery. Shooting the composite horse-bow is like a tank using direct fire at targets. So, even though they are similar they take different skill sets to be used productively. Aiming is interesting because the composite horse-bow is canted slightly to the left and the left index index finger is used like a front sight of an M-16. With the English longbow the arrow itself is used as a sight and the shooting is more like a grenade launcher than a riffle. So, if you look at in the realm of sports, (which modern archery is) the longbow is like a driver or a wood aiming for the flag. The composite horse-bow is used like a wedge or a putter aiming for the hole. It is true that both bows can do a long and short game but you're not going to bring a driver to the green and you're not going to tee off with a sand-wedge. In both instances you could get lucky but your looking for the right training, the right skill, and the right tools. All of this is my novice opinion. : )
I using 38# Turkish laminated bow
Arrow setup :
- spine 300
- 28"
- GPP 10
- 26.xx grams
- FOC 10-11%
- Carbon Express Predator II
Added khatra, the arrow flew very good
More stiffer and shorter at 28", in my empirical experience makes the arrow more better to maintains the condition of the shaft when receiving kinetic energy from the bow
The key is khatra to use the arrow setup above, give more benefit to reduce deflection and arrow slap
Thats why i never too strict using spine measurement based om AMO, as long as doesnt use weak spine let say >650 or >700, i have no worry to use more stiff spine
yoo thats so cool
Reaction is better than action
That joke was👌
Khatra is the Todd Howard of archery
3:06 KEKW
Howdy all
@3:05 lolololololol
Well, I'm not gonna say no to a video about big breasts 😂
Anyway, nice video. A good explanation.
Looks like you are forcing the khatra. Pushing the bow forward with your wrist after the arrow has left it. Moving the bow forward and out of the way shouldn't be an intentional action... that motion draws the eye when you see people shooting with khatra, so you assume the motion is important but it actually has nothing to do with the technique. It's just the natural movement of your arm falling away once the tension of the bow has been released. By the time the bow drops the khatra is already over. It looks to me like either you are trying to "push" the arrow forward with your arm, or possibly you have an urge to keep the bow rock steady while the arrow is leaving it, only willing to move after the arrow is gone (a natural desire for archers trained in Olympic recurve or compound, but it ruins khatra).
The critical issue here you need to understand is that khatra is not the technique of moving the bow out of the way. Khatra is the whole process from setting the arrow on the string to watching it leave the bow.
It might help you overcome this if you focused on not slowing yourself at full draw. Whenever you are reaching full draw in this video you slow down and hesitate before releasing. Western training causes you to want to stop and aim at full draw, and they also warn you not to "snatch" at the release - but with thumb release you WANT that quick, snappy motion. You aren't quite stopping but still the instinct is obviously there, and your release is too much like "letting go" rather than "plucking a guitar string". From the beginning to end your draw and release should be one quick, fluid motion. Yes, this makes it harder to aim. Please stop trying to aim. You won't have time. Learn the technique right and your brain will aim for you. The "10 steps to the 10 ring" methodology taught you in Western archery is crippling you, pausing and considering each action step by step is anathema to khatra.
Once you are shooting like this, then you will discover that all you need do is apply gentle pressure with your thumb and pinky during your draw and release; this is the moment where you are doing khatra. Afterwards the bow will fall away of its own accord. *The critical issue here you need to understand is that khatra is NOT the technique of moving the bow out of the way while shooting* . Khatra is a method for drawing and firing the bow - it is the whole process from starting to draw the string until watching it leave the bow.
To put it very gently... perhaps the reason you have years of videos criticizing khatra is because you have never experienced doing it correctly? Of course it would seem bad to you in this case... I realize you have backed off of some of those positions when experts corrected you, which is good, but maybe reconsider creating educational content around it in the first place until you've mastered the technique?
Haha Goa ying would totally make fun of you for shooting 40lb bows …. But Im not sure if Chinese spoken there was mandarin or Cantonese?? You did Cantonese accent
Good point. I will check this next time I do Uncle Gao.
First, in the slow motion, you turned the bow too late, probably because your reaction is not faster than the arrow. Second, even if you are faster enough, what's the point of doing this in archery? You mitigate spine, but you also eliminate all other benefits by using a bow, such as accuracy, consistency, and so on. You made archery being like shooting a basketball or slinger... If you want to shoot others' arrows back in war, tong-ah archery may work.
SO Kharta is a drop-away-arrow-rest done manually and therefore not as effektiv.🧐
The thing is the more you move the more errors can be done.
I doubt the use for every hobby archer.