Back to Bible Terminology- The Church vs Israel
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Here at Liberty, we focus on the timeless basics: worshiping God, studying God’s Word, serving each other and seeking to make disciples of Jesus Christ.
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I don't know how people can't see it, especially with all the Scripture that you use that flat out proves the position.
Right on!
Well said!
It's a very difficult argument, but it shouldn't be. People have more respect for their various theological "-isms" than they do for truth. Because really this is what it is. The true polarity is truth versus lies, not which "- ism" is true. The argument is not helped by men like the late Chuck Missler, who simply labelled "heretics" those who did not consider the nation of Israel, formed and named in 1948, to be the Biblical people God separated from the evil nations. Missler's view of things never jumped out at me from the Scriptures, but I was never closed to it either. I'm trying to search them with some humility. Chucky was a man who did his best to prick my pride.
Amen. Two Sticks was fulfilled in the first Century! The book of Acts chapter 2 is proof. Whether there is some kind of "dual fulfillment" in the future is up for debate. But 1948 fulfilled NOTHING. Great comment!
The following proves this pastor is correct.
Who is Israel based on what the Bible says?
Are there two Israels in the Book of Romans ?
Rom. 9:6-8 Flesh vs. Promise
Rom. 11:1-5 Baal worshippers vs. Remnant
Heb. 8:6-13, 10:16-18, 12:18-24 Old Cov. vs. New Cov.
Rom. 2:28-29, 1 Jhn. 2:22-23, 2 Jhn. 1:7-11, Rev. 2:9, 3:9, 11:8 .............................................................................
1. Who is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel found in Matthew 1:1, confirmed in Gal. 3:16?
Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2. How did Peter address the crowd on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ?
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
3. Did Paul describe two different Israels in the Book of Romans?
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
4. The New Covenant was promised to the House of Israel and the House of Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Does this now apply to the Church?
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
In the verses between these two (Heb. 8:7-12) the author of the Book of Hebrews quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 word-for-word. (New Cov. promise)
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
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Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the TH-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
Good answers and questions thank you. And whom are these?
the King James Version of the Bible, first published in 1611, Deuteronomy 14:2 includes the verse "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.",[3] and 1 Peter 2:9 reads "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light."[4]
Reading the bible there is only 1 way and that is through Jesus Christ the way. The only way for all. John 3:16-17. The only way to the Father is Jesus. Therefore Israel is still scattered? Being grafted in, you're Israel? In my humble opinion. But search scripture with your whole heart. We're in no need of a teacher for the Holy Spirit will teach us in all ways and all truth. So will Israel be brought together in New Jerusalem in the end of revelations?
I have also heard people say that the OT and most of the new testament is not for us (gentiles "sinners")but for Israel. To me that's a lie! God tells the end from the beginning. That's not rightly dividing. Gentiles are those who haven't been saved by the blood of Jesus. There are no jews or Greeks free or slave etc. The only way to the Father is through Jesus (Yahshuah). The way,the truth, and the life. So how can (modern orthodox jews) be saved outside of the new covenant? Impossible! Again IMHO.
Hey brother Tommy, check out Numbers 20:8. The word "HIS" refers to the rock.
Job 30:30/ Amos 9:7/ 1611 KJV song of Solomon 1:5-6
You are right that since Christ, salvation comes only through faith in him.
That is true for both Jews and Gentiles.
However, God made promises and prophecies regarding the Jews that he will fulfill.
There are multiple prophecies in the O.T. which speak of Jerusalem being the location of God's kingdom on earth, and the people of Israel, the Jews, being the world's prestigious citizens.
Zechariah also covers it, chapters 12 to the end explain it pretty succinctly.
The Jews in Jerusalem during the tribulation will be under attack. Many will be captured and/or killed. But a number will be preserved by God until Christ returns. The anti-Christ will have his forces gathered in the Kidron Valley next to the temple. Jews will be on the walls looking down at them, and Jesus will appear in the sky. They will recognize by his wounds that he is Jesus, and God will open their eyes to saving faith.
Christ will bring all of those who trusted in him before that time. They will all be in their resurrection bodies, and will no longer be mortal. They (we) will serve with Christ to govern the world during the millennium, so we will not be counted among the humans. Just as God opened the eyes of Jews whose names were written in the book of life, he will also cause many Gentiles to survive the tribulation without kneeling to the anti-Christ, and he will open their eyes as well when Christ is revealed in the sky.
Everyone ignores this verse in Zechariah. It is a disclaimer.
Zec 6:15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
Don't worry though. The prophecies will still have a fulfillment but things will be different or better is the way Hebrews puts it. All promises will be fulfilled through Jesus and the New Covenant.
Jerusalem was already surrounded by armies and they were destroyed without deliverance because they rejected the Messiah.
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
You can't just cherry pick prophecies.
@@GiveMeLibertyBaptist
It says it is the man named "The Branch" who will build the temple spoken of. Which historic temple did Jesus build?
God saves whoever he wants, and no man deserves to be saved.
You are speaking as if men could earn salvation, as well as the promises of God. The Jews never had a chance to do either and you know that. God certainly knows that, and that's why he set them apart in the first place, other than needing them to parent Jesus. They are the example of what all of us would do if we were in their place. If you were unregenerate, you would have done every bad thing they did. And you are only regenerated because God forced it on you.
As for the issue of salvation in the O.T., there is Israel, and there is true Israel. The second group is listed in God's book of life, but the majority of Israel do not have their name in God's book.
And I've already pointed out that those Jews whose names are in God's book do not deserve salvation any more than anyone else because none of us deserve it.
But to add another layer to this situation, the topic is not who will be saved in this epoch, but who will be saved to live mortally in the millennium when God will fulfill his promises to his unfaithful wife, Israel. You are convinced that it will not happen at all because they blew it. Jesus said what would happen at the end of the age, those things didn't happen in 70 AD. Therefore, we will have a near repeat of 70 AD, but it will fulfill everything Jesus said would happen. That flows into all the other prophecies about the end times which will be fulfilled by God in spite of the actions of humans.
The Branch is Jesus and the temple He built is us i think. Our body, heart, mind and soul is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus also mention destroying this temple and building it up again in 3 days, referring to His body or death, burial resurrection. So Jesus doesnt need a physical temple because the time has come that true worshippers of God will not worship in jerusalem anymore because they will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. But a fake Christ will need a temple so he can sit on it and call himself as God
Pastor McMurtry, do you hold to covenant theology? Specifically do you believe it's teachings of the covenant of grace, covenant of works, and the covenant of redemption are biblical?
I'd be interested in hearing his response to that.
Bible has been changed and the proof is in your books :
Jeremiah 23:36
""And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.""
So you are going to take a scripture out of context and ignore all the verses saying God will preserve His word. Here are 3 - I can provide more if you like.
Isaiah 40:8 - The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Matthew 24:35 - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Psalms 119:89 - LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
@@1611KJV It nowhere says that God will preserve your book ( the word preserve refers to the book being preserved even in written form ) .. today we see plainly the corruption it happened in the bibles , you always resort to the emotional side to defend the book , i can give you many contradictions , many unfulfilled prophecies , Paul breaking the laws and one of them is Circumission , we muslims circumicise since being very young and most of muslims are circumicised , because we follow the teachings from times of Abraham , and did not you ever ask yourself why most of you ar not circumisiced whereas Jesus was , the reason is because Paul is the one who abolished all Mosaic laws which Jesus came to fulfill , you got to read and understand your book . because in NT Paul already broke the Mosaic laws and made his own covenant with his own laws
@@1611KJV
You have by the way you showed us a contradiction in your books which actually proves that it was corrupt why ?
Because in the verse i showed , the book itself testifies that it was corrupt , later on you came with verses that say god words do not change and get corrupt , from the same book which is supposed to be from god has contradictory verses one saying words of god have been perverted and the other one says it is not and shall not pass away , the book refutes itself . very strong proof that your book has been changed ..
Jesus himself said that no man cometh unto me except it were given of him of my Father. Jesus also taught that All that the Father giveth Me shall come to me, and I shall loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day. It is The Doctrine Of Christ, that Paul uses to bring Us (THE CHURCH), unto The Unity Of The Faith, in whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named. Jesus clearly teaches the reconciliation of All Things! 2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption. Peter completely understood the parable of the wheat and the tares. Peter understood that the Lord came to separate the wheat from the tares. Peter completely understood that the tares are the children of the wicked one, and the enemy that soweth them is the devil! Jesus himself called these false religious leaders out for who they truly were, and they were not His sheep! These false teachers believe that The Lord purchased His Enemies with His Own Blood! These workers of Satan have apostisised from The Doctrine Of Christ. These false teachers and all who follow them are wresting the scriptures unto their own destruction. The scriptures that they wrest, have been clearly made known unto All Nations (All Men), therefore they are without excuse! The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery of the Gospel teaches the reconciliation of All Things! No doubt, The Church is Israel, made up of both Jew and Gentiles.
Terminology of the ancient scrolls of the Black Hebrew Israelites versus the Gentile churches. Father Yahuah chose the 12 sons of Jacob of the black race Hebrew Israelites and gave them the Ten Commandments laws and stature to follow. The Heavenly Father Yahuah did not give his Covenant to the Gentiles race whatsoever. The Gentiles was considered strangers in the land. If the strangers wanted to come to the Hebrew Israelites and join their feast they had to keep the Ten Commandments laws stature and all males had to be circumcised to join in with the Black Hebrew Israelites of their feast days an be counted as of them. In the ancient Hebrew there was no writings by the prophets of old about a virgin birth death Resurrection by the cross. Exodus 4:22 Father Yahuah plainly told the 12 tribes of the Black Hebrew Israelites you will worship me only. Hosea 13:4/ Exodus 23:13/ Revelations 18:4 Come out of her my people referring to the Covenant Black Hebrew Israelites. Come out of her RCC Gentiles Virgin Mary and share in her sins and receive her plagues of coming judgment. Genesis 15: 13-14/ Joel chapter 3/ Malachi 3:6 (Revelations 12:9 through man-made religions) / Job 30:30/ Amos 9:7/ 1611 KJV songs of Solomon 1:5-6
By the Power and Authority of YAHWEH; by the Power and Authority of YESHUA'S name and blood, and with the help, Power and Authority of the HOLY SPIRIT, I command: "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him; Hold thy peace, and come out of" @Garry Bailey
YAHWEY loves You--Garry, and so do I.
@@rabdhall05 You apparently don't study much lack of knowledge. Keep staying in those man-made churches so they can keep ya dumb down. In your King James Pagan version says that you're not supposed to add or subtract from the word. How is it that King James had added an subtracted from the Turah of the real scrolls ? Because in the real scrolls there is no such thing as Trinity only in your Pagan King James.
Gen 1 God created heaven & earth.
(Hebrew original meaning of God is Elohim which denotes more than 1 God)
Gen 1:2 And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
(Spirit of God in the original Hebrew is ruah Elohim. Ruah = spirit is a feminine noun, place together Ruah Elohim/ Spirit of God indicates it’s a female God.)
True Holy Trinity is Alpha & Omega= Father(Christ) & Mother(Bride of Christ-Daughter Zion-Mona Lisa-Root of David is Israel 🦁), Daughter & Son, Holy Soul & Holy Spirit.
Unholy Trinity is Father god(Satan), Son (Adam), False Prophet (Pope?)
The Bible is satans tool to confuse you into worshiping him alone (Samael)1st testament is Father god aka Satan 2nd Testament is the true Alpha and Omega Father/Mother God, the church is Satan’s Synagog. Awake Awake!❤️🙏😇
With love from True Prophetess of the most High, Enoch previous incarnation & witness 🦁❤️Female Christ savior this time! Why do you think Jesus left his church? Because they were worshiping Satan🤔