What's the best for a hard blue collar work knife (cutting rubber hoses, rope, cardboard, plastic straps, etc.) Edge retention over ease of sharpening please, maybe anti corrosion/rust over edge sharpness
@@jonathangarzon2798 You would be better off getting a high end budget ,stainless,tough and easy to sharpen steel like AUS10 steel..Cold Steel uses it and its a great all round steel!Holds an edge well too!!Or even 154cm or CPM 154.
FYI - LC200N is neither an ingot steel or a powdered steel, it is created using Pressurized Electric Slag Remelting, or PESR. And the benefits of powdered steels are are a more even carbide distribution, and a finer grain structure. I think you got that mixed up a little bit. Not trying to give you a hard time, just wanted to let you know in case you were interested, you know I got nothing but love for you :)
@@RevengeAvenger eeuhm...I have 2 mcusta knives in vg10....never carry them, but love them, keep them in my collection. And yes, they are way too pricy....
If you sharpen your own knifes, a KME system with diamond plates will easily sharpen M4, S90v, Maxamet, etc. Given the thousand+ I’ve spent on modern folders, that system has been an awesome investment.
I appreciate your honest reviews and your acknowledgment of your own shortcomings. It’s a good measure of your integrity. I’m still learning due to channels like yours. Blessings.
I chose M390 (and its analogues CPM-20cv and CTS-204-p) a few years ago for my EDC rotation, preferably within Bohler's recommended HRC range of 60-62 (and I actually prefer it ran at the higher end of the range so HRC 60-62) and now have 28 in the rotation. M390 has it all for my EDC purposes, incredible edge retention (when run at HRC 60-62), good rust resistance (basically stain free when properly maintained), reasonable toughness, takes a fine edge and can be touched up with ceramic rods easy enough. Out of my rotation I have to admit my favorite company is Reate, and they do a wonderful job with their M390, constantly running their M390 at around HRC60-61 and getting the best out of the steel.
@@stompbox64dtown9 Reate runs their M390 at 60-61 consistently and are getting really good results, mainly because of their proprietary cryo processes during heat treat and hand grinding and keeping their edges during the process. Rockstead are in a category all by themselves, and beyond most of us.
Maxamet is a steel that has impressed me so much. Not stainless but cuts forever on a sharpen. For now its my fav you just have to deal with it not being stainless.
I like this video. S35VN is a good all around steel that appears on many common production folders. It's more accessible to most people than Cruwear or LC200N would be. Definitely a good all-around pick. But most people come in with a specific quality that they are looking for in a knife. Why not do this again but with a specific preference in mind? Best knife steel for people who want Toughness vs. Edge retention vs Corrosion Resistance vs. Ease of Sharpening. And each category would be 2 steels: the first steel would be the one who excels the most in that category while steel 2 does almost as well but with fewer trade offs to achieve that level of performance. For instance, corrosion resistance can be H1 as the best in the corrosion resistance category and LC200N being the well-rounded variant or the category.
CPM-20cv is so corrosion resistant that most people could not make it rust if they tried. It has better edge retention than the rest. For folding knives, you probably don't need toughness as much, unless you either intend to beat on the knife or make insanely thin geometry. 20cv is hands down the best for all of the steels shown in the vodeo picture. S90V is the best folder steel for anyone not in salt water. S30v is probably better than s35vn for most people, too.
Watched this in the morning it was a good honest video and I would agree with. Given My limited experience I would recommend s35vn for most people looking for a knife it’s good to go
My favorite used to be plain Jane s30v. Nice edge retention, tough steel and super corrosion and rust resistant. But over the last year or so I've become a huge fan of LC200N and m390. Think I have to go with LC200N.
My hogue Ritter is in 20cv. It took me about 30-40 minutes on my lansky to sharpen to a mirror polish. I didn't think it was bad at all to sharpen and the edge retention is out of this world.
I have a Benchmade Grip in CPM154 it is my go to hunting / deer skinning knife. The LC200n is hard to beat for fishing and food prep. Thank you very much for the video. : )
ZDP 189 was my favourite steel until the relatively recent release of K390 but both have excelent edge retention if you don't live in a very wet or humid environment because they both are not stainless. I have some few blades in CPM S110V for those moments of rain or near river-sea hikes. Once, before cellular phones or GPS, I got lost in the forest while recollecting mushroms and had to build a shelter at dusk to pass the night. I doubt I could get enough performance out of AUS8 or 8Cr13Mov. That traumatic experience made me a steel nerd but I also always carry outdoors a Fallkniven DC3 diamond sharpening stone, just in case, it's so flat and light!
I know I'm coming in late...but NitroV seems to get better and better as an all around steel. Lc200n is excellent. But heat treatment is basically only doable in specific ways and at a very narrow hardness range..where NitroV and it's properties vary depending on it's hardness 58-64
Personally I'm partial to M390. Constantly amazed at how long it stays razor sharp, and how easy it is to "touch up" sharpen. (I have a Benchmade Barage 581) However I'll admit I have no experience with S35VN. I certainly wouldn't turn one down.
I’m with you on s35vn, I can make it crazy sharp without trouble. I still love s30v too, steel snobs hate it now but I remember not too long ago when it was THE super steel. I used to work offshore and I wish they were using lc200n back then. I think you should have broken it down to those who need toughness, need corrosion resistance and need extreme retention instead of just one steel to rule them all.
This one is also my favorite. So glad I got the KnifeCenter exclusive brown Manix 2 Lightweight with CTS XHP - one of the best EDC knives I can imagine.
i edc s35vn or m390 sometimes both, I prefer s35vn for heavy work and m390 for slicing. So i'd have to agree with your opinions. My m390 zumwalt is more pocket jewelry used for fine cutting. But my s35vn Kizer is my workhorse. If you plan to torture your knives or do task other then what they're designed to do then take a cheap knife if your off hand pocket that you don't care about destroying. My mindset is proper tool for the job saves a lot of money.
It's just crazy how far its come, it's like flashlight technology in 2005 I had a blinding 60 lumens from a surefire 6p now I have 1200 in a pocket flashlight. VG-10 was a lightsaber 10 years ago a solid mid to higher tier steel. Now we have Magnacut. I'm a very skilled sharpener and I tell folks M4 is epic and it holds an edge forever, however when you do finally need to sharpen it you need to clear you calendar
I agree with what your saying up until the m4 part. M4 is not a long sharpening steel, with a diamond or cbn stone/plate. It's as quick and easy to sharpen as s30v, slightly more wear resistant on the stones but not much. Even a quality alumina based stone like a shapton glass 120 will reprofile it quickly. M4 is a very crisp cutting steel and responds to stones very quickly.
Currently I mostly carry my Buck Marksman, 154cm Boss HT, and it hasn`t let me down. I also often carry a Kershaw Skyline (14c28n) or Kershaw Atmos (8cr13MoV). Geometry and Design are more important then Steel imho.
Great video about a topic that leads to endless debate. Think this video shows It's a great time to be into knives considering all the steel options available . Always appreciate your opinion and point of view . Thanks MC.
I genuinely didn't think of myself as a master sharpener until this video knowing I've created hair splitting edges on both S110V from Spyderco and S90V from Benchmade. Thank you sir, this ego boost just got you another sub. I'd love to see how S45 and some of the newer steels in 2020 would work on this list. That said, I'm slowly leaning towards S30V or S35V as the "best." However, in reality, I think it's more about what's "best" at your price-point. Like under 60, D2 is amazing from the right companies. Under 150 is a toss up to S30 or S35, at 200+ I'd say M390/20cv/204... Regardless, I think price and heat treating is more important than the label (example: cjrb gobi D2 sharpens like a bad 8cr13mov, just did it to a mirror hair splitting edge and it was so soft I had a hard time believing it was actually D2). Price point makes all the difference. -Probably S35... Probably so but in sharpening I'd say it's a bit soft. Otherwise an amazing steel. Great video.
Never liked s35vn I've had nothing but bad experiences with it. I'd actually prefer s30v over s35vn. I'm assuming s45vn isn't much different then s35vn. So far I'm really liking the high alloy tool steel's way better then any stainless steel's I think they perform way better and are much tougher. Although the corrosion resistance is lacking I make sure to keep everything dry, cleaned and properly maintained with a layer of metal treatment. Having said all that I would say Rex45 is the best overall general and hard use steel choice unless you're in a humid environment second would be 4v for general to hard use and I would use 10v for maximum edge retention. The problem I noticed with high edge retention steel's such as 10v or 15v is difficulty sharpening.
I own several knives in Cruware, CTS XHP and S30V. They are all great for several reasons and make for excellent EDC. I'll take any of them all day long and be totally satisfied. But honestly, if I were stuck on a deserted island with one pocket knife, my choice would be the Spydiechef in LC200N. If you can only choose one knife, what is better than this? The best all around folding knife in the best steel.
LC200N is awesome. The SpydieChef i got is probably the sharpest factory edge on a Spyderco. I don't see why you'd need any more performance from the steel in this knife. If it doesn't work for you, you don't need a more expensive stainless super steel. Maybe D2 would be stronger in an emergency or a box cutter would cut more cardboard.
i love my maxamet para 2 love it so much i got a para 3 from the factory seconds also not that hard to sharpen i was scared at first but once i got going no big deal
Hey MC I love your content and I know this is an old video but if you happened to read this I was wondering how you felt about Nitro-V for a general EDC
Great video. My sharpening skills are good to very good. I enjoy to sharpen and diss-like anything dull. Choosing a "perfect" blade steel is as you have so elegantly shown is virtually impossible. Thank you though for taking massive amounts of specs and knowledge of use to narrow down what some of these blade steels mean to the average user. This kind of video gives me the opportunity to choose steels wisely and focus my limited time and efforts into things that I love (not studying specs sheets and wasting money on unknown steels to me) Your core 4 as ill call them are steels iam familiar with and will continue to use due to experience and recommendations like yous. Cheers
M4 my favorite so far on my Gayle Bradley, I don't own very many steels though. I also snapped 3/8" off M4 and reprofiled on extremely cheap diamond stone. That's how hand I use knives for work, and also to say nothing is that harsh to sharpen with any diamond stone and I'm not very good at free hand and it's all I use. I use and sharpen for old woodworking tools and modern steel leatherworking tools. Edit: also my Gayle Bradley is corroded big time losing more than once on my 10 acres. Still love it.
If you have problems with knives breaking, look for the ones with more toughness. They will be harder to break or chip. This may be more important than edge retention.
I have a challenge here in South Africa. Basically you pay R3k to R5k for an ordinary PM2 in s30v. (about $180 -$300 and you will have to go for the $300 if you don't want a parallel import). This means that nicer knives like my dream knife (XM18) is not within my grasp. I recently got a Cold Steel Code 4 Tanto in CTS XHP as a present. I was so impressed that I bought the clip point as well, but in S35VN. I love these knives and they are so reasonably priced that people like me are in a position to get something with a nice steel. Have you ever handled a Code 4 and if so what do you think of it? I love it!
not to brag but im one guy outta a lot who can sharpen just about any knife to a razors edge. and honestly just do your reserch and practice and you can also sharpen just about anything. took me years to be able to sharpen blades but it is doable. also i carry a CRKT M16 01KS and i use knives way outside there qualifications and i broke the tip off once (prying ofcorse) and i just rounded it off and 4 years its still in my pocket and it is going strong. one more thing ive been watchin this channel for about 2 years and it just took me till yesterday to subscribe...not sure why lol but i hope you make it to a million subs man!
It really depends on how you intend to use your knife and what you are cutting. My edc folder is s30v but my survival fixed blade is a much tougher HC steel with less edge retention.
Agreed S35VN is probably the most well rounded best overall steel. That’s also considering ease of sharpening. Not taking that into consideration 20CV wins.
I love S30V I have it from benchmade, buck,and spyderco. Also I'm an avid fisherman so I have a fillet knive with S30V which is awesome. It's a great all around steel. I have a few S35VN and 20CV steel knives and love them too. I just bought a knife with XHP so I'll have to reserve judgement on it for now.
I skipped them because they're all primarily suited for the lower end (and the video was going to be long enough already). Rounded powder steels like s30v, Elmax, xhp, s35vn etc outclass them. And with m390 available on some sub $100 knives, those steels frankly didnt stand a chance
@@metal_complex I was editing my comment while watching this and realized you weren't talking about budget steels. Sorry about that. You're right Kershaw has the dividend with that for 80 dollars.
Thank you for your insight on the right steel for EDC knives. Every little tid bit of information is beneficial. Everyone has their favorite style of knives and none of them is wrong, if it's what you like it's what you like. 😊 The right heat treatment is as important, if not more important as the steel itself. It is true that the price goes up on the higher quality steels. Thanks again for the video. 👍😊
Ok maybe a stupid question but I don't know . How dose Damascus rank ? But for this I love cpm 3v .It would take forever to get every steel for knifes in the same grind and shape . You have to have one knife master smith make them all In a perfect world . Then as I was told that the best knife and steel is the one that well do the job and cut . I use the work smart sharper on pocket knifes and my old old Japanese wet stoon's
I'm prone to buy 20CV, 204P, M390 for corrosion resistance and edge retention. I like S35VN for it's toughness on a folder. S35VN is a good compromise. Also had really good edge retention when heat treated properly 59-61.
TheNutzandBoltz i like 154 too. Bought a buck marksman 5 yrs ago or so. Holds nice edge. Im hooked on cold steel S35 now. Awesome bkade. Got it las yr 67$, looked this morning it was$104
Great video. I knew you’d pick S35 though. It does go to show all the people who complain about Chris Reeve Knives still using it that it’s still a great choice.
Nice list. I got LC200N higher on the list. I like VG10 over D2. I have XHP high as well. I have M4 a little lower, have Cru-Wear on par. Love 3V, and probably love 4V if I ever got my hands on it.
This reminds me of the 600cc sport motorcycle shootouts all the magazines and upcoming online media entities used to do in the mid-late 90s. Inevitably it could be distilled down to the big four: Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki, and generally speaking, they were all great and the differences between them were usually just splitting hairs.
Just bought a KnifeJoy exclusive Pm2 in 20cv … over waiting for the SMKW M4 exclusive coming out in a couple weeks. This video was the straw on the camels back lol. I like the lime green scales more anyway. Love your reviews man. Thank you
8cr13mov, 9cr18mov, 14c28n? Haven't watched the whole video yet. I know they're not in consideration for the best, but would have liked to hear your opinion of them. Still an excellent overview. Thanks MC.
I left them out because they just aren't universally loved. *edit** - 8cr, 9cr, 14c etc are all OK at best. They're budget steels, but outclassed by 154cm and d2 for the price range IMO
@@metal_complex I edited my comment before I saw your response acknowledging what you said. Maybe another video going over the best budget steels, in the same vein as your quest for the best budget knife. Or maybe you'll incorporate that in your best budget knife series. You're doing a great job with your channel. Look forward to all your videos.
Thanks for sticking up for us mortals, who are not adept at knife sharpening. I just received a knife back from a well known knife sharpener; and he scratched the crap out of one side of my blade. The edge work was befitting of his reputation; but those scratches... Perhaps it was beneath him to waste his time sharpening my lowly TOPS folder; but after I saw those scratches, I don't know if I'd send him a premium knife? The point of all of that was, if a guy who sharpens knives professionally can still muck up a knife blade; what do people expect from us amateurs? I use a ceramic rod and strop with an old leather belt after EVERY use of my knives; so I don't get them to the point where I can't restore the edge.
Re: powder vs ingot steel. The two are basically identical below a certain carbon/carbide threshold. As the overall carbide content of a steel increases the carbides formed will also generally increase in size which creates a more randomized distribution on a microscopic scale. As I recall n690 is below the threshold and therefore doesn't gain much from being produced as powder vs ingot. Ingot steel costs less energy to produce so n690 is likely a more economically viable product as ingot steel. Edit: Strongly believe cruwear should be up with m4. Would also have included k390 in between s110v and maxamet. In regards to heat treatment, in any given steel there will be a range of "proper" that will yield either more wear resistance (usually at a higher hardness) or more toughness (usually at a lower comparitive hardness). Some manufacturers have extremely consistent heat treatment, some don't or have had problems in the past. I think most manufacturers err on the side of warranty and heat treat for toughness at the cost of wear resistance, which has a direct correlation on edge retention in knives. I think that it is also important to note edge retention usually improves after a few sharpenings as the thin parts of a blade may have been thermally abused during grinding and sanding, so the condition of the factory edge steel isn't always perfectly representative of the heat treatment.
I consider CPM154 to be today much the same as VG10 use to be. Its decent enough for most people to not notice a difference, sharpens relatively easy enough for most people using rudimentary sharpeners, ie. spyderco sharpmaker. I think the heavyweight championship belt has got to go to M390 / CPM20CV. Holds an edge for a lot longer than most, and easy enough to sharpen with higher end sharpeners, ie wicked edge. S30vn /S35vn bare minimum steel for higher end mid tech brands. Also holds an edge, relatively easy to sharpen.
f you think CPM154 is about the same quality steel as VG10 why pay more ? In Belgium The Spiderco Delica costs about 100 euro in VG10.The so called supersteel knives are double the prize
I think u did great man.👍nice job, in my usage and experience I would have to say m390, I think it holds a great edge and it's really easy to sharpen.. at least it is on my Giantmouse ace biblio, I just got in my chaves Ultramar 229 in m390 and I dnt have enough experience with that m390 yet. But I'll let u know in a few months.
Great knife steel overview. I only have experience with some of the steels you list. I like to hand sharpen my super steel pocket knives with dual sided DMT plates. My bevels are never perfect but the entire edge will dry shave. I used to edc my blurple Para Military 2 in S110V. By holding the knife in one hand and the DMT in the other, I get a very distinguishable feeling and sound as feedback while sharpening. S110V was no problem that way. Probably took 5 minutes to restore the edge every few weeks of hard use. I also use high carbon steel kitchen knives made in the USA and Japan. I’m only mentioning it because I just sharpened my new Maxamet Para 3 and it felt very similar. It took very little effort to get a bur and polish the bevel. Now the sharpest folder I own. CTS XHP is nice. I have the Boker AK 74 with that steel. I edced that one until the clip broke off. Sharpening it felt glassy and hard but was not that difficult. Love D2 also. S30V is good too. Seriously, try the DMT difold sharpeners for some hand sharpening. You might like the feedback and become a better sharpener. You can feel and hear when you exactly match the existing bevel. Same is true on other stones but I think it’s easier to tell. Love your content and how you feature USA made knives. Good stuff.
What matters more than even the steel is the heat treatment process...Spyderco and Cold Steel do an excellent job so even their cheaper steel knives are very tough.
I use a lot an S90v knife. I ve been sharpening a lot, for the 10 past years. I use DMT diamond stones, among others, and i have assembled a nice sharpening kit over the years. (I have more stones and sharpening gear than knives...) I dont know if im an expert sharpener, but i certainly improved a lot over the years. I use a lot of cutting tools and i always want razor sharpness since i know i can achieve it. (I can be maybe a little bit obsessive with it...) And for me, S90v is not really hard to sharpen, i can clearly get it to hair poping ,miror polished edges, and the edge retention on this S90 knife is just out of this world. I sharpen a lot of differents steels, (from supersteels to unknown carbon steels) for me but also for all my friends and familiy, even collegues as i am quite known for that. Axes, all sorts of knives, machetes, and all kinds if tools. I think for me the s90v is very, very nice, but i think you have to be confident in your sharpenikg abilities and have a good sharpening gear. For a good sharpener this is a dream steel. (I prefer it over S35vn for my EDC knife. But i can understand that if you are not into sharpening, it might not be the best steel put there. My favorite steel of my working full tang knives is 1095... for different reasons,but although its not a premium steel,usinf it a lot, i think it is the best overall steel for big work blades. (Note i am not a collection man, i' just a knife and cutting tool heavy, heavy user.) I want to test some other steels now! Some advices (obviously i'm not afraid by steels that are hard to sharpen..)
Are y'all using a clay base whetstone to sharpen these "hard to sharpen" knives or a Arkansas oil stone? I haven't had the pleasure of sharpening those really hard steels. Looking forward to it.
I just bought a Spydiechef and I love it but I'm still carrying my old PM2 with black blade. I just bought a Para 3 with black blade too but I haven't used it carried that or my Spydiechef. I'm really wanting that special Para 3 lightweight with S90V steel for $140 but I don't know if I need it. I've never owned an S90V steel before but I've had my eye on the Drunken and that's S90V but it's so expensive.
ELMAX is a lot tougher than S30V and S35V. It also requires more effort to sharpen than either. I also adore CPM3V! Very tough, not quite stainless. Perfect for a Bushcraft blade (and my default a Survival blade).
I will say that you did a great job on this. However, if you're pretty good at knife sharpening and have the right tools, I have struggled to find a steel that was overall better than S90v in terms of what all you get out of a sharp blade. While S90v is somewhat tough, this toughness factor is something that 90% of people don't need to worry about. Cutting stuff properly doesn't chip an edge. Prying, banging, twisting, bad technique, or general abusing is what does that. If you want to do all that, get a 3v knife or a screwdriver. I haven't tried Maxamet, and S110v doesn't functionally feel any different to me than S90v despite the difference in knife variety and sometimes pricing. But for people good at sharpening and who use their knives as intended, I would say 20CV, S90V, and (apparently) Maxamet would be your best 3 options if you have the skill, tools, and cash to handle them.
Wondering which blade steel would be considered the best for a 'beater' knife? One where you don't worry if you cut too far and end up hitting concrete/steel/etc, or stabbing into sheetrock and cutting a hole, or other hardcore legit uses with a knife. I have a d2 Rat1 and use it for my workhorse knife and it has held up very well, with no chipping of the blade. I really abuse that knife. Then I got a sv110 Native5 and it has micro chips from regular cutting tasks. I also hardly use the knife, but it could have been the angle profile from factor. I have since sharpened it to get the chips out and seems better. I haven't used it much though. Just looking for one I can really abuse but still holds the edge very well. Basically I want to buy a new knife, :)
I’m still fairly new to the EDC world (about 2 years) but I always tell people where I live (The driest state in the driest continent South Australia) that D2 is the best when factoring in price because of shipping. I just find it’s the best all round when it’s not got a chance of rusting, if they’re in other states I’ll recommend S30V more than likely.
I really like this vid. I'd like to see more like this. Some of these were unknown to me, so thank you very much. Coated 3v is my favorite hard use steel.
Great job MC , with the last 6 on your pick, I doubt very many people actually get the full potential out of any of those steels. And as fast as the knife world is changing the list probably won't stand as long as the life of the knife anyway. I remember when ATS 34 was as good as it got for every day carry.
I have a tendency to agree with you on most. I have multiple 3V and 4V. If you don't let them dull out they can be touched up easily. I live in a humid environment and because I care for them after use no issue with corrosion. I think personally I would go with CPM154. It is easy to sharpen. For my use holds up great keeps an edge and with care it is great for me.
hi MC and community :) i have a question about spyderco and S30V. from my unterstanding s35vn its "the same but better" right? so i was wondering why the majority of blades from spyderco come in s30 istead of s35 ??
Heat treatment and grain structure of a specific blade > blade steel. (When comparing proper blade steels) Corrosion resistance is a valid comparison. Edge retention/Ease of sharpening is a function of Rockwell hardness-Blade Steel-Blade Geometry. Ultimately the differences between these steels are fractional percentages of trace elements in the alloys. Two of the same blade model will fail at different points, even if the manufacturing process and materials are the same. If the steel is on this list, it’s going to be suitable for what you’re using it for. Buying one over the other because it’s “better” is just succumbing to good marketing.
Literally all of this was discussed. Composition of the steel ALONG SIDE hardness and blade geometry will determine edge retention. Otherwise, for example, 440C and M390 would have the exact same results at the same HRC, and that definitely isn't the case. For most people, these varying attributes won't be noticeable. But for people who plan to go out and use / sharpen their blades weekly? Ya. Composition makes a huge difference. I'm going to have to wave off your "wave off" comment. Sorry.
Metal Complex - I love your content and I wasn’t trying to discredit anything you said or wave off anything. I just wanted to provide input on the contextual importance of knife steel in the big picture of what makes a knife good.
Stay away from ZDP-189 as an EDC knife, it has a very high carbon content making it brittle. It's very prone to chipping, I dropped one from about 2 feet off the ground and it chipped!
I in love with Elmax for years. I added S35VN and M390 recently. I don't use them hard enough to have a proper opinion. Edge retention and ease of sharping is IMO the most important factors in a knife. Corrosion resistant should not be HUGE factor. Get a good steel with DLC or whatever 😁
4 years and you have grew from 5 K to almost 400k Well done. Is it time to do another update on this video? I just got a Manix 2 in s30v with G10 scales (fiancé’ picked knife just told her Manix 2 ) I think im gonna get a light weight Manix 2 in dif steal.
Super edge retention !! I'm loving the spyderco police 4 in k390, coming from a guy who carried unlabeled stainless steel, 5cr15mov, 7cr17mov and 8cr13mov, this k390 stuff just seems like magic... I guess there really is a huge difference in a $10-$20 knife vs a $200 knife. I'd want my next one too be either a Paramilitary 2 or Paramilitary 3 in S110v, I cut alot of weird synthetics with my knives. All I know is that I'll never go back too Walmart stainless or 5cr17mov again (Maybe a budget option, like a Civivi in D2 as well lol)
@@ashmerch2558 I would stay away from S110v. It's only good at edge retention, but its edge is very weak It's the opposite of Vanadis 4 Extra, which has the best edge stability. So steels like s110v, are limited and you have to be carefull not to break the tip of the blade, or not to chip the edge etc. CPM154 , S35vn , LC200N e, Nitro V , AEB-L , from stainless steels, or Vanadis 4 E , Cruware , CPM 4V , K390 from non stainless steels, are the some of the best you can rely on, for a good knife blade.
@@greekveteran2715 I'm big into the K390, has enough toughness and edge retention for days. My next endeavor will be a stretch 2 in V-Toku2 or a Spydiechef... the Slyz designs are so appealing. I was once really really into M4, and its still a great steel... but K390 just seems like the next step of evolution. I've done non knife tasks and cut things that shouldn't be cut with a knife and the K390 just laughs... does take a bit to sharpen, but the edge has so far came up superb. CPM-S110V is a bit too brittle for the tasks I use my knives for... that Vanadis 4E is very very VERY interesting
Elmax and xhp! Love and use the crap outta both of them! Microtech, spydies and cold steel. Although i think m4 is good but a bitch to sharpen. Love the vid brother!
As far as I know Kizer's Vanguard line now uses N690 and used to always be VG10. I have a few of them and they are all one or the other. I know I have heard a lot of people say the steels are very similar or call N690 a European VG10. The more expensive Kizers I have are all s35vn or m390. I have no problem with either. I have a bunch of Benchmade knives with 154cm but seems they have moved to s30v now on most all or maybe all knives they used to make with 154cm. Any of those steels are fine with me really. The few I carry most though are s30v, 20cv, and M4. I have every steel there on the table but s110v, Maxamet, Cruwear, LC200N, and Elmax. I have a lot of 154cm, s30v, s35vn, 20cv seems to be some of the most common steel used in better quality production knives. I have one other Spyderco I just got that I can't think of what the steel is. Its the Bradley fixed knife. I saw a video saying it is a better version of D2 but I can't think of what its called or what the name of the knife is lol. I have a handful of Benchmade knives that are ATS34 too have some CTS-XHP from Spyderco. My favorite knife MFGs are probably ZT, Benchmade, and Spyderco. If you look at my knives those are the 3 MFGs you will see most. I have some Hogue, Kizer, Bestech, We, Artisan Cutlery, Boker, Protech, Kershaw and whatever else. I like with Spyderco they offer so many different steels. With ZT it seemed most every model was s35vn for a while now starting to see mostly 20cv it seems which is nice but then prices seem to creep up a little more too. I like a lot of the designers they partner with at Spyderco/ZT/Benchmade too.
Someone stole my 154 mini grip at work and boy was that a good little knife to work with it took an edge pretty good and held it for a week or so doing the tasks I put it to
Additionally, I usually look for premium steels when I am looking to buy a new knife. I want something with great edge retention but isn't too difficult to sharpen. I have 4 kids, so time is limited in my house. CPM 20cv serves me well for that purpose.
Edge retention and ease of sharpening are opposites on the metallurgy scale, keep that in mind. EDC in my opinion I prize edge retention as not having alot of time to do it means I need it to last longer so I can sharpen it less often.
@@jonathangarzon2798 20cv strops pretty well, and sharpening isn't too bad if you don't let it get too dull. If it gets dull it will have work put in work. I don't always have time to sit, and sharpen for 30-50mins so keeping the edge touch ups on 800 grit diamond, and stropping keeps the edge sharp without too much work.
My Amazon store! - The VERY BEST knives & gear! - www.amazon.com/shop/metalcomplex
What a great review ! Absolutely spot on! 👍🏼 Brilliant
What's the best for a hard blue collar work knife (cutting rubber hoses, rope, cardboard, plastic straps, etc.)
Edge retention over ease of sharpening please, maybe anti corrosion/rust over edge sharpness
Like ZT knife company I like 20CV but will also buy 35 and maybe 154 depending on knife use. Your choices are spot on. I will ay more for 20cv.
@@jonathangarzon2798 You would be better off getting a high end budget ,stainless,tough and easy to sharpen steel like AUS10 steel..Cold Steel uses it and its a great all round steel!Holds an edge well too!!Or even 154cm or CPM 154.
FYI - LC200N is neither an ingot steel or a powdered steel, it is created using Pressurized Electric Slag Remelting, or PESR. And the benefits of powdered steels are are a more even carbide distribution, and a finer grain structure. I think you got that mixed up a little bit. Not trying to give you a hard time, just wanted to let you know in case you were interested, you know I got nothing but love for you :)
20 years ago, vg10 was almost alien technology. Lol
I just ordered a james brand vg10 steel knife. Should I get something else?
@@kjam87gxp No man, that should be just fine. Vg10 is a perfectly good steel, I don't care what anyone says.
Seriously, vg10 is great for EDC! You dont need to bust a $100 for function and durability.
@@RevengeAvenger eeuhm...I have 2 mcusta knives in vg10....never carry them, but love them, keep them in my collection. And yes, they are way too pricy....
And 20 years ago you used a phone that flipped or didn't own a mobile
If you sharpen your own knifes, a KME system with diamond plates will easily sharpen M4, S90v, Maxamet, etc. Given the thousand+ I’ve spent on modern folders, that system has been an awesome investment.
I appreciate your honest reviews and your acknowledgment of your own shortcomings. It’s a good measure of your integrity. I’m still learning due to channels like yours. Blessings.
I chose M390 (and its analogues CPM-20cv and CTS-204-p) a few years ago for my EDC rotation, preferably within Bohler's recommended HRC range of 60-62 (and I actually prefer it ran at the higher end of the range so HRC 60-62) and now have 28 in the rotation.
M390 has it all for my EDC purposes, incredible edge retention (when run at HRC 60-62), good rust resistance (basically stain free when properly maintained), reasonable toughness, takes a fine edge and can be touched up with ceramic rods easy enough.
Out of my rotation I have to admit my favorite company is Reate, and they do a wonderful job with their M390, constantly running their M390 at around HRC60-61 and getting the best out of the steel.
I love m390 at 62, but I tend to put my Rockstead in the "my precious" category. Recently, Andre Thorburn has been taking his m390 to 61.
@@stompbox64dtown9 Reate runs their M390 at 60-61 consistently and are getting really good results, mainly because of their proprietary cryo processes during heat treat and hand grinding and keeping their edges during the process.
Rockstead are in a category all by themselves, and beyond most of us.
S35vn 👍. M390 👍. Cpm154👍 M4 👍. Hell I like them all brother 😂😂👊
😁👍👍⚔🍻
Maxamet is a steel that has impressed me so much. Not stainless but cuts forever on a sharpen. For now its my fav you just have to deal with it not being stainless.
I like this video. S35VN is a good all around steel that appears on many common production folders. It's more accessible to most people than Cruwear or LC200N would be. Definitely a good all-around pick.
But most people come in with a specific quality that they are looking for in a knife. Why not do this again but with a specific preference in mind? Best knife steel for people who want Toughness vs. Edge retention vs Corrosion Resistance vs. Ease of Sharpening.
And each category would be 2 steels: the first steel would be the one who excels the most in that category while steel 2 does almost as well but with fewer trade offs to achieve that level of performance. For instance, corrosion resistance can be H1 as the best in the corrosion resistance category and LC200N being the well-rounded variant or the category.
CPM-20cv is so corrosion resistant that most people could not make it rust if they tried. It has better edge retention than the rest. For folding knives, you probably don't need toughness as much, unless you either intend to beat on the knife or make insanely thin geometry.
20cv is hands down the best for all of the steels shown in the vodeo picture. S90V is the best folder steel for anyone not in salt water. S30v is probably better than s35vn for most people, too.
Watched this in the morning it was a good honest video and I would agree with. Given My limited experience I would recommend s35vn for most people looking for a knife it’s good to go
My favorite used to be plain Jane s30v. Nice edge retention, tough steel and super corrosion and rust resistant. But over the last year or so I've become a huge fan of LC200N and m390. Think I have to go with LC200N.
Going through these old videos and learning alot, man. I've been watching your channel alot recently
My hogue Ritter is in 20cv. It took me about 30-40 minutes on my lansky to sharpen to a mirror polish. I didn't think it was bad at all to sharpen and the edge retention is out of this world.
Jesse Hout 20 cv 204 p and m390 are all kissing cousins
I have a Benchmade Grip in CPM154 it is my go to hunting / deer skinning knife. The LC200n is hard to beat for fishing and food prep. Thank you very much for the video. : )
...tilian
LC200N is great choice for edc, ok edge retention, great corrotion resistance and relatively easy to sharpen.
ZDP 189 was my favourite steel until the relatively recent release of K390 but both have excelent edge retention if you don't live in a very wet or humid environment because they both are not stainless. I have some few blades in CPM S110V for those moments of rain or near river-sea hikes. Once, before cellular phones or GPS, I got lost in the forest while recollecting mushroms and had to build a shelter at dusk to pass the night. I doubt I could get enough performance out of AUS8 or 8Cr13Mov. That traumatic experience made me a steel nerd but I also always carry outdoors a Fallkniven DC3 diamond sharpening stone, just in case, it's so flat and light!
I know I'm coming in late...but NitroV seems to get better and better as an all around steel. Lc200n is excellent. But heat treatment is basically only doable in specific ways and at a very narrow hardness range..where NitroV and it's properties vary depending on it's hardness 58-64
So easy to strop back to fresh edge. Love it in a warny.
Pete from Cedric and Ada is definitely a runner up for someone who has handled and tested most steels...
Personally I'm partial to M390. Constantly amazed at how long it stays razor sharp, and how easy it is to "touch up" sharpen. (I have a Benchmade Barage 581) However I'll admit I have no experience with S35VN. I certainly wouldn't turn one down.
For me my fav's are - budget 14c28n, non-budget m390. I'm excited to try out rwl34 (close to cpm154) when I get my hands on the Lynx.
14c28n is my favorite budget steel. Easy to sharpen and stays sharp
@@Ike32 and when tested it stayed sharp longer than some premium steels :)
I’m with you on s35vn, I can make it crazy sharp without trouble. I still love s30v too, steel snobs hate it now but I remember not too long ago when it was THE super steel. I used to work offshore and I wish they were using lc200n back then. I think you should have broken it down to those who need toughness, need corrosion resistance and need extreme retention instead of just one steel to rule them all.
S30V is an amazing steel and for folders S45 is probably the best as it hold an edge better (harder usually)
CTS XHP , I wish there were more of this stuff available. Awesome for my edc requirements
This one is also my favorite. So glad I got the KnifeCenter exclusive brown Manix 2 Lightweight with CTS XHP - one of the best EDC knives I can imagine.
i edc s35vn or m390 sometimes both, I prefer s35vn for heavy work and m390 for slicing. So i'd have to agree with your opinions. My m390 zumwalt is more pocket jewelry used for fine cutting. But my s35vn Kizer is my workhorse. If you plan to torture your knives or do task other then what they're designed to do then take a cheap knife if your off hand pocket that you don't care about destroying. My mindset is proper tool for the job saves a lot of money.
You earned a SUB. Thanks for helping a somewhat-newbie wade through the PLETHORA of steels and the pros/cons of each.
Since I got maxamet that's my pick because it will hold an edge very well but I don't mind tough to sharpen steels
It's just crazy how far its come, it's like flashlight technology in 2005 I had a blinding 60 lumens from a surefire 6p now I have 1200 in a pocket flashlight. VG-10 was a lightsaber 10 years ago a solid mid to higher tier steel. Now we have Magnacut. I'm a very skilled sharpener and I tell folks M4 is epic and it holds an edge forever, however when you do finally need to sharpen it you need to clear you calendar
I agree with what your saying up until the m4 part. M4 is not a long sharpening steel, with a diamond or cbn stone/plate. It's as quick and easy to sharpen as s30v, slightly more wear resistant on the stones but not much. Even a quality alumina based stone like a shapton glass 120 will reprofile it quickly. M4 is a very crisp cutting steel and responds to stones very quickly.
Currently I mostly carry my Buck Marksman, 154cm Boss HT, and it hasn`t let me down. I also often carry a Kershaw Skyline (14c28n) or Kershaw Atmos (8cr13MoV). Geometry and Design are more important then Steel imho.
All of my Kershaw's are 8cr13mov and I've used them pretty hard. It's very very good.
Great video about a topic that leads to endless debate. Think this video shows It's a great time to be into knives considering all the steel options available . Always appreciate your opinion and point of view . Thanks MC.
😊👍
I genuinely didn't think of myself as a master sharpener until this video knowing I've created hair splitting edges on both S110V from Spyderco and S90V from Benchmade. Thank you sir, this ego boost just got you another sub. I'd love to see how S45 and some of the newer steels in 2020 would work on this list. That said, I'm slowly leaning towards S30V or S35V as the "best." However, in reality, I think it's more about what's "best" at your price-point. Like under 60, D2 is amazing from the right companies. Under 150 is a toss up to S30 or S35, at 200+ I'd say M390/20cv/204... Regardless, I think price and heat treating is more important than the label (example: cjrb gobi D2 sharpens like a bad 8cr13mov, just did it to a mirror hair splitting edge and it was so soft I had a hard time believing it was actually D2). Price point makes all the difference.
-Probably S35... Probably so but in sharpening I'd say it's a bit soft. Otherwise an amazing steel. Great video.
Never liked s35vn I've had nothing but bad experiences with it. I'd actually prefer s30v over s35vn. I'm assuming s45vn isn't much different then s35vn. So far I'm really liking the high alloy tool steel's way better then any stainless steel's I think they perform way better and are much tougher. Although the corrosion resistance is lacking I make sure to keep everything dry, cleaned and properly maintained with a layer of metal treatment. Having said all that I would say Rex45 is the best overall general and hard use steel choice unless you're in a humid environment second would be 4v for general to hard use and I would use 10v for maximum edge retention. The problem I noticed with high edge retention steel's such as 10v or 15v is difficulty sharpening.
Cruwear or REX45 are my favorites. Have them both as Spyderco Shamans. My EDC choices. But I use M390 or N690Co in the kitchen.
I'm so glad I found a comment about cruware I just ordered a Benchmade adamas in cruware is it difficult to sharpen?
I own several knives in Cruware, CTS XHP and S30V. They are all great for several reasons and make for excellent EDC. I'll take any of them all day long and be totally satisfied. But honestly, if I were stuck on a deserted island with one pocket knife, my choice would be the Spydiechef in LC200N. If you can only choose one knife, what is better than this? The best all around folding knife in the best steel.
LC200N is awesome. The SpydieChef i got is probably the sharpest factory edge on a Spyderco. I don't see why you'd need any more performance from the steel in this knife. If it doesn't work for you, you don't need a more expensive stainless super steel. Maybe D2 would be stronger in an emergency or a box cutter would cut more cardboard.
i love my maxamet para 2 love it so much i got a para 3 from the factory seconds also not that hard to sharpen i was scared at first but once i got going no big deal
Hey MC I love your content and I know this is an old video but if you happened to read this I was wondering how you felt about Nitro-V for a general EDC
Great video. My sharpening skills are good to very good. I enjoy to sharpen and diss-like anything dull. Choosing a "perfect" blade steel is as you have so elegantly shown is virtually impossible. Thank you though for taking massive amounts of specs and knowledge of use to narrow down what some of these blade steels mean to the average user. This kind of video gives me the opportunity to choose steels wisely and focus my limited time and efforts into things that I love (not studying specs sheets and wasting money on unknown steels to me) Your core 4 as ill call them are steels iam familiar with and will continue to use due to experience and recommendations like yous. Cheers
Well done! I agree! S35 is my fav
M4 my favorite so far on my Gayle Bradley, I don't own very many steels though. I also snapped 3/8" off M4 and reprofiled on extremely cheap diamond stone. That's how hand I use knives for work, and also to say nothing is that harsh to sharpen with any diamond stone and I'm not very good at free hand and it's all I use. I use and sharpen for old woodworking tools and modern steel leatherworking tools.
Edit: also my Gayle Bradley is corroded big time losing more than once on my 10 acres. Still love it.
If you have problems with knives breaking, look for the ones with more toughness. They will be harder to break or chip. This may be more important than edge retention.
I have a challenge here in South Africa. Basically you pay R3k to R5k for an ordinary PM2 in s30v. (about $180 -$300 and you will have to go for the $300 if you don't want a parallel import). This means that nicer knives like my dream knife (XM18) is not within my grasp. I recently got a Cold Steel Code 4 Tanto in CTS XHP as a present. I was so impressed that I bought the clip point as well, but in S35VN. I love these knives and they are so reasonably priced that people like me are in a position to get something with a nice steel. Have you ever handled a Code 4 and if so what do you think of it? I love it!
Yep! I have a review of it listed in my "most recommended knives" playlist 😊
@@metal_complex will watch that! You have great videos!
not to brag but im one guy outta a lot who can sharpen just about any knife to a razors edge. and honestly just do your reserch and practice and you can also sharpen just about anything. took me years to be able to sharpen blades but it is doable. also i carry a CRKT M16 01KS and i use knives way outside there qualifications and i broke the tip off once (prying ofcorse) and i just rounded it off and 4 years its still in my pocket and it is going strong.
one more thing ive been watchin this channel for about 2 years and it just took me till yesterday to subscribe...not sure why lol but i hope you make it to a million subs man!
❤👊⚔
It really depends on how you intend to use your knife and what you are cutting. My edc folder is s30v but my survival fixed blade is a much tougher HC steel with less edge retention.
Agreed S35VN is probably the most well rounded best overall steel. That’s also considering ease of sharpening. Not taking that into consideration 20CV wins.
All my kitchen knives are VG10 and my EDC's are 154cm, m390, s35vn.
I love S30V I have it from benchmade, buck,and spyderco. Also I'm an avid fisherman so I have a fillet knive with S30V which is awesome. It's a great all around steel. I have a few S35VN and 20CV steel knives and love them too. I just bought a knife with XHP so I'll have to reserve judgement on it for now.
I skipped them because they're all primarily suited for the lower end (and the video was going to be long enough already). Rounded powder steels like s30v, Elmax, xhp, s35vn etc outclass them. And with m390 available on some sub $100 knives, those steels frankly didnt stand a chance
@@metal_complex I was editing my comment while watching this and realized you weren't talking about budget steels. Sorry about that. You're right Kershaw has the dividend with that for 80 dollars.
So any of these will open my amazon boxes?
Slow but steady building momentum until this point. Way to see a return for all the work and dedicated daily content.
Thank you for your insight on the right steel for EDC knives. Every little tid bit of information is beneficial. Everyone has their favorite style of knives and none of them is wrong, if it's what you like it's what you like. 😊 The right heat treatment is as important, if not more important as the steel itself. It is true that the price goes up on the higher quality steels. Thanks again for the video. 👍😊
Hey MC (and anyone who knows what's up feel free to chime in) is there much of a difference between S35VN & S45VN?
Ok maybe a stupid question but I don't know . How dose Damascus rank ? But for this I love cpm 3v .It would take forever to get every steel for knifes in the same grind and shape . You have to have one knife master smith make them all In a perfect world . Then as I was told that the best knife and steel is the one that well do the job and cut . I use the work smart sharper on pocket knifes and my old old Japanese wet stoon's
I like S30V because it is good for most tasks and is relatively affordable.
I'm prone to buy 20CV, 204P, M390 for corrosion resistance and edge retention. I like S35VN for it's toughness on a folder. S35VN is a good compromise. Also had really good edge retention when heat treated properly 59-61.
K390 buddy my personal favorite!
Exactly
Dude, you just might be more into steel than me. Nice work. I'll go out of my way to get 154cm, at a better price that a premium steel. Love it.
⚔🍻👍👍
TheNutzandBoltz i like 154 too. Bought a buck marksman 5 yrs ago or so. Holds nice edge. Im hooked on cold steel S35 now. Awesome bkade. Got it las yr 67$, looked this morning it was$104
Great video. I knew you’d pick S35 though. It does go to show all the people who complain about Chris Reeve Knives still using it that it’s still a great choice.
CRK S35VN is some good stuff.
Nice list. I got LC200N higher on the list. I like VG10 over D2. I have XHP high as well. I have M4 a little lower, have Cru-Wear on par. Love 3V, and probably love 4V if I ever got my hands on it.
This reminds me of the 600cc sport motorcycle shootouts all the magazines and upcoming online media entities used to do in the mid-late 90s. Inevitably it could be distilled down to the big four: Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki, and generally speaking, they were all great and the differences between them were usually just splitting hairs.
How’s that esee 1095? I’m getting an izula soon
I have the Spyderco GB2 in M4 and have no issues sharpening it with the Wicked Edge System.
What’s the best blade steel for bushcrafting and skinning I need help picking my first high quality knife
Just bought a KnifeJoy exclusive Pm2 in 20cv … over waiting for the SMKW M4 exclusive coming out in a couple weeks. This video was the straw on the camels back lol. I like the lime green scales more anyway. Love your reviews man. Thank you
Also got the KnifeCenter Para 3 in Cruwear… all black model. Even the liners. It’s as amazing as you’d imagine
8cr13mov, 9cr18mov, 14c28n? Haven't watched the whole video yet. I know they're not in consideration for the best, but would have liked to hear your opinion of them. Still an excellent overview. Thanks MC.
I left them out because they just aren't universally loved.
*edit** - 8cr, 9cr, 14c etc are all OK at best. They're budget steels, but outclassed by 154cm and d2 for the price range IMO
@@metal_complex I edited my comment before I saw your response acknowledging what you said. Maybe another video going over the best budget steels, in the same vein as your quest for the best budget knife. Or maybe you'll incorporate that in your best budget knife series. You're doing a great job with your channel. Look forward to all your videos.
Thanks for sticking up for us mortals, who are not adept at knife sharpening. I just received a knife back from a well known knife sharpener; and he scratched the crap out of one side of my blade. The edge work was befitting of his reputation; but those scratches... Perhaps it was beneath him to waste his time sharpening my lowly TOPS folder; but after I saw those scratches, I don't know if I'd send him a premium knife? The point of all of that was, if a guy who sharpens knives professionally can still muck up a knife blade; what do people expect from us amateurs? I use a ceramic rod and strop with an old leather belt after EVERY use of my knives; so I don't get them to the point where I can't restore the edge.
Re: powder vs ingot steel.
The two are basically identical below a certain carbon/carbide threshold. As the overall carbide content of a steel increases the carbides formed will also generally increase in size which creates a more randomized distribution on a microscopic scale.
As I recall n690 is below the threshold and therefore doesn't gain much from being produced as powder vs ingot. Ingot steel costs less energy to produce so n690 is likely a more economically viable product as ingot steel.
Edit:
Strongly believe cruwear should be up with m4. Would also have included k390 in between s110v and maxamet.
In regards to heat treatment, in any given steel there will be a range of "proper" that will yield either more wear resistance (usually at a higher hardness) or more toughness (usually at a lower comparitive hardness). Some manufacturers have extremely consistent heat treatment, some don't or have had problems in the past. I think most manufacturers err on the side of warranty and heat treat for toughness at the cost of wear resistance, which has a direct correlation on edge retention in knives. I think that it is also important to note edge retention usually improves after a few sharpenings as the thin parts of a blade may have been thermally abused during grinding and sanding, so the condition of the factory edge steel isn't always perfectly representative of the heat treatment.
I consider CPM154 to be today much the same as VG10 use to be. Its decent enough for most people to not notice a difference, sharpens relatively easy enough for most people using rudimentary sharpeners, ie. spyderco sharpmaker. I think the heavyweight championship belt has got to go to M390 / CPM20CV. Holds an edge for a lot longer than most, and easy enough to sharpen with higher end sharpeners, ie wicked edge. S30vn /S35vn bare minimum steel for higher end mid tech brands. Also holds an edge, relatively easy to sharpen.
f you think CPM154 is about the same quality steel as VG10 why pay more ? In Belgium The Spiderco Delica costs about 100 euro in VG10.The so called supersteel knives are double the prize
No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying it's "today's VG10" meaning, it is to the knife world what VG10 used to be.
Thoughts on s45vn i compare it a lot to c20v as far as edge retention for my favorite edc steels
Also, k390 is just a couple notches under maxamet, definitely above m4.
Just did an updated video on new blade steels 👍
I think u did great man.👍nice job, in my usage and experience I would have to say m390, I think it holds a great edge and it's really easy to sharpen.. at least it is on my Giantmouse ace biblio, I just got in my chaves Ultramar 229 in m390 and I dnt have enough experience with that m390 yet. But I'll let u know in a few months.
Great knife steel overview. I only have experience with some of the steels you list. I like to hand sharpen my super steel pocket knives with dual sided DMT plates. My bevels are never perfect but the entire edge will dry shave. I used to edc my blurple Para Military 2 in S110V. By holding the knife in one hand and the DMT in the other, I get a very distinguishable feeling and sound as feedback while sharpening. S110V was no problem that way. Probably took 5 minutes to restore the edge every few weeks of hard use.
I also use high carbon steel kitchen knives made in the USA and Japan. I’m only mentioning it because I just sharpened my new Maxamet Para 3 and it felt very similar. It took very little effort to get a bur and polish the bevel. Now the sharpest folder I own.
CTS XHP is nice. I have the Boker AK 74 with that steel. I edced that one until the clip broke off. Sharpening it felt glassy and hard but was not that difficult.
Love D2 also. S30V is good too.
Seriously, try the DMT difold sharpeners for some hand sharpening. You might like the feedback and become a better sharpener. You can feel and hear when you exactly match the existing bevel. Same is true on other stones but I think it’s easier to tell.
Love your content and how you feature USA made knives. Good stuff.
I'm buying a Pera 2 but I don't know what steel should I buy.
Help
What matters more than even the steel is the heat treatment process...Spyderco and Cold Steel do an excellent job so even their cheaper steel knives are very tough.
Yep 👍
I use a lot an S90v knife. I ve been sharpening a lot, for the 10 past years.
I use DMT diamond stones, among others, and i have assembled a nice sharpening kit over the years.
(I have more stones and sharpening gear than knives...)
I dont know if im an expert sharpener, but i certainly improved a lot over the years.
I use a lot of cutting tools and i always want razor sharpness since i know i can achieve it. (I can be maybe a little bit obsessive with it...)
And for me, S90v is not really hard to sharpen, i can clearly get it to hair poping ,miror polished edges, and the edge retention on this S90 knife is just out of this world.
I sharpen a lot of differents steels, (from supersteels to unknown carbon steels) for me but also for all my friends and familiy, even collegues as i am quite known for that.
Axes, all sorts of knives, machetes, and all kinds if tools.
I think for me the s90v is very, very nice, but i think you have to be confident in your sharpenikg abilities and have a good sharpening gear.
For a good sharpener this is a dream steel.
(I prefer it over S35vn for my EDC knife. But i can understand that if you are not into sharpening, it might not be the best steel put there.
My favorite steel of my working full tang knives is 1095... for different reasons,but although its not a premium steel,usinf it a lot, i think it is the best overall steel for big work blades.
(Note i am not a collection man, i' just a knife and cutting tool heavy, heavy user.)
I want to test some other steels now!
Some advices (obviously i'm not afraid by steels that are hard to sharpen..)
I never see the brand Spyderco which I love and I think it's a good
Are y'all using a clay base whetstone to sharpen these "hard to sharpen" knives or a Arkansas oil stone? I haven't had the pleasure of sharpening those really hard steels. Looking forward to it.
I just bought a Spydiechef and I love it but I'm still carrying my old PM2 with black blade. I just bought a Para 3 with black blade too but I haven't used it carried that or my Spydiechef. I'm really wanting that special Para 3 lightweight with S90V steel for $140 but I don't know if I need it. I've never owned an S90V steel before but I've had my eye on the Drunken and that's S90V but it's so expensive.
ELMAX is a lot tougher than S30V and S35V. It also requires more effort to sharpen than either.
I also adore CPM3V! Very tough, not quite stainless. Perfect for a Bushcraft blade (and my default a Survival blade).
I will say that you did a great job on this. However, if you're pretty good at knife sharpening and have the right tools, I have struggled to find a steel that was overall better than S90v in terms of what all you get out of a sharp blade. While S90v is somewhat tough, this toughness factor is something that 90% of people don't need to worry about. Cutting stuff properly doesn't chip an edge. Prying, banging, twisting, bad technique, or general abusing is what does that. If you want to do all that, get a 3v knife or a screwdriver.
I haven't tried Maxamet, and S110v doesn't functionally feel any different to me than S90v despite the difference in knife variety and sometimes pricing. But for people good at sharpening and who use their knives as intended, I would say 20CV, S90V, and (apparently) Maxamet would be your best 3 options if you have the skill, tools, and cash to handle them.
Wondering which blade steel would be considered the best for a 'beater' knife? One where you don't worry if you cut too far and end up hitting concrete/steel/etc, or stabbing into sheetrock and cutting a hole, or other hardcore legit uses with a knife. I have a d2 Rat1 and use it for my workhorse knife and it has held up very well, with no chipping of the blade. I really abuse that knife. Then I got a sv110 Native5 and it has micro chips from regular cutting tasks. I also hardly use the knife, but it could have been the angle profile from factor. I have since sharpened it to get the chips out and seems better. I haven't used it much though.
Just looking for one I can really abuse but still holds the edge very well. Basically I want to buy a new knife, :)
I’m still fairly new to the EDC world (about 2 years) but I always tell people where I live (The driest state in the driest continent South Australia) that D2 is the best when factoring in price because of shipping. I just find it’s the best all round when it’s not got a chance of rusting, if they’re in other states I’ll recommend S30V more than likely.
I really like this vid. I'd like to see more like this. Some of these were unknown to me, so thank you very much. Coated 3v is my favorite hard use steel.
Great job MC , with the last 6 on your pick, I doubt very many people actually get the full potential out of any of those steels. And as fast as the knife world is changing the list probably won't stand as long as the life of the knife anyway. I remember when ATS 34 was as good as it got for every day carry.
Which Protech was that? I'm asking at 10:40... my apologies if you answer the question later in the video.
That was the protec/mick strider collaboration. I think it's an sng model, but not sure.
👍
What would you recommend for people jumping out of helicopters?
My understanding is that CTS-XHP falls between s35vn and ZDP-189.
CTS-XHP is also used on the Spyderco Chaparral for just over $100 or so
I have a tendency to agree with you on most. I have multiple 3V and 4V. If you don't let them dull out they can be touched up easily. I live in a humid environment and because I care for them after use no issue with corrosion. I think personally I would go with CPM154. It is easy to sharpen. For my use holds up great keeps an edge and with care it is great for me.
Does anyone know what model this is? 3:45 and this? 14:13
What brand was the knife with 154CM?
I would love to have a Spyderco pm-2 CPM 154 or better yet lc200n that would be my ideal blade Steel
hi MC and community :)
i have a question about spyderco and S30V. from my unterstanding s35vn its "the same but better" right? so i was wondering why the majority of blades from spyderco come in s30 istead of s35 ??
Heat treatment and grain structure of a specific blade > blade steel. (When comparing proper blade steels)
Corrosion resistance is a valid comparison.
Edge retention/Ease of sharpening is a function of Rockwell hardness-Blade Steel-Blade Geometry.
Ultimately the differences between these steels are fractional percentages of trace elements in the alloys.
Two of the same blade model will fail at different points, even if the manufacturing process and materials are the same.
If the steel is on this list, it’s going to be suitable for what you’re using it for. Buying one over the other because it’s “better” is just succumbing to good marketing.
Literally all of this was discussed. Composition of the steel ALONG SIDE hardness and blade geometry will determine edge retention. Otherwise, for example, 440C and M390 would have the exact same results at the same HRC, and that definitely isn't the case.
For most people, these varying attributes won't be noticeable. But for people who plan to go out and use / sharpen their blades weekly? Ya. Composition makes a huge difference. I'm going to have to wave off your "wave off" comment. Sorry.
Metal Complex - I love your content and I wasn’t trying to discredit anything you said or wave off anything. I just wanted to provide input on the contextual importance of knife steel in the big picture of what makes a knife good.
Stay away from ZDP-189 as an EDC knife, it has a very high carbon content making it brittle. It's very prone to chipping, I dropped one from about 2 feet off the ground and it chipped!
I in love with Elmax for years.
I added S35VN and M390 recently.
I don't use them hard enough to have a proper opinion.
Edge retention and ease of sharping is IMO the most important factors in a knife.
Corrosion resistant should not be HUGE factor. Get a good steel with DLC or whatever 😁
I agree with D2. I find it sharpens better when you use a higher angle. I find 25 degrees to be a sweet spot.
4 years and you have grew from 5 K to almost 400k
Well done. Is it time to do another update on this video?
I just got a Manix 2 in s30v with G10 scales (fiancé’ picked knife just told her Manix 2 )
I think im gonna get a light weight Manix 2 in dif steal.
K390!! Cru-wear, Elmax, XHP, S110V,
Super edge retention !! I'm loving the spyderco police 4 in k390, coming from a guy who carried unlabeled stainless steel, 5cr15mov, 7cr17mov and 8cr13mov, this k390 stuff just seems like magic... I guess there really is a huge difference in a $10-$20 knife vs a $200 knife.
I'd want my next one too be either a Paramilitary 2 or Paramilitary 3 in S110v, I cut alot of weird synthetics with my knives. All I know is that I'll never go back too Walmart stainless or 5cr17mov again
(Maybe a budget option, like a Civivi in D2 as well lol)
@@ashmerch2558 I would stay away from S110v. It's only good at edge retention, but its edge is very weak It's the opposite of Vanadis 4 Extra, which has the best edge stability. So steels like s110v, are limited and you have to be carefull not to break the tip of the blade, or not to chip the edge etc. CPM154 , S35vn , LC200N e, Nitro V , AEB-L , from stainless steels, or Vanadis 4 E , Cruware , CPM 4V , K390 from non stainless steels, are the some of the best you can rely on, for a good knife blade.
@@greekveteran2715 I'm big into the K390, has enough toughness and edge retention for days. My next endeavor will be a stretch 2 in V-Toku2 or a Spydiechef... the Slyz designs are so appealing.
I was once really really into M4, and its still a great steel... but K390 just seems like the next step of evolution. I've done non knife tasks and cut things that shouldn't be cut with a knife and the K390 just laughs... does take a bit to sharpen, but the edge has so far came up superb.
CPM-S110V is a bit too brittle for the tasks I use my knives for... that Vanadis 4E is very very VERY interesting
Elmax and xhp! Love and use the crap outta both of them! Microtech, spydies and cold steel. Although i think m4 is good but a bitch to sharpen. Love the vid brother!
As far as I know Kizer's Vanguard line now uses N690 and used to always be VG10. I have a few of them and they are all one or the other. I know I have heard a lot of people say the steels are very similar or call N690 a European VG10. The more expensive Kizers I have are all s35vn or m390. I have no problem with either. I have a bunch of Benchmade knives with 154cm but seems they have moved to s30v now on most all or maybe all knives they used to make with 154cm. Any of those steels are fine with me really. The few I carry most though are s30v, 20cv, and M4. I have every steel there on the table but s110v, Maxamet, Cruwear, LC200N, and Elmax. I have a lot of 154cm, s30v, s35vn, 20cv seems to be some of the most common steel used in better quality production knives. I have one other Spyderco I just got that I can't think of what the steel is. Its the Bradley fixed knife. I saw a video saying it is a better version of D2 but I can't think of what its called or what the name of the knife is lol. I have a handful of Benchmade knives that are ATS34 too have some CTS-XHP from Spyderco. My favorite knife MFGs are probably ZT, Benchmade, and Spyderco. If you look at my knives those are the 3 MFGs you will see most. I have some Hogue, Kizer, Bestech, We, Artisan Cutlery, Boker, Protech, Kershaw and whatever else. I like with Spyderco they offer so many different steels. With ZT it seemed most every model was s35vn for a while now starting to see mostly 20cv it seems which is nice but then prices seem to creep up a little more too. I like a lot of the designers they partner with at Spyderco/ZT/Benchmade too.
Someone stole my 154 mini grip at work and boy was that a good little knife to work with it took an edge pretty good and held it for a week or so doing the tasks I put it to
Additionally, I usually look for premium steels when I am looking to buy a new knife. I want something with great edge retention but isn't too difficult to sharpen. I have 4 kids, so time is limited in my house. CPM 20cv serves me well for that purpose.
Edge retention and ease of sharpening are opposites on the metallurgy scale, keep that in mind.
EDC in my opinion I prize edge retention as not having alot of time to do it means I need it to last longer so I can sharpen it less often.
@@jonathangarzon2798 20cv strops pretty well, and sharpening isn't too bad if you don't let it get too dull. If it gets dull it will have work put in work. I don't always have time to sit, and sharpen for 30-50mins so keeping the edge touch ups on 800 grit diamond, and stropping keeps the edge sharp without too much work.
How about CPM 4V Steel?
I've seen M390 chop wood, get stabbed into a cinderblock and still slice paper.. Saw this after buying a PM2 in Maxamet.
Which knife did that? Is that footage on video or you saw that in person? Thanks in advance.
@Jacob Dawson I have a Maxa PM2 and M390 PM2. Thnx