MUCH STRONGER 3D prints due to LESS COOLING! Testing PLA & PETG

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 651

  • @CNCKitchen
    @CNCKitchen  5 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    Feel free to share the video on Facebook, Reddit, Twitter and other social media!

    • @NicMediaDesign
      @NicMediaDesign 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Why don't you share your videos on r/3Dprinting or elsewhere?

    • @PRO3DESIGN
      @PRO3DESIGN 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Shared in my V-King builders group. You have the best videos

    • @Unmannedair
      @Unmannedair 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      I found uniform flow to be highly important for high speed printing. With high speed printing you're only cooling the skin of the extruded plastic, so less is better.

    • @rico3696
      @rico3696 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      What kind of PETG filament do you recommend? AprintAPro does not supply filament anymore, would you still recommend DasFilament?

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Das Filament is good stuff. Still use it regularly.

  • @mahmoudelsharawy5405
    @mahmoudelsharawy5405 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1210

    Print a Benchy. Scan it. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Keep going until the Benchy is unrecognizable.

    • @matneu27
      @matneu27 5 ปีที่แล้ว +150

      Then sell it as art. You will get rich 😉

    • @kurtownsj00
      @kurtownsj00 5 ปีที่แล้ว +39

      th-cam.com/video/QEzhxP-pdos/w-d-xo.html Jpeg style

    • @hakont.4960
      @hakont.4960 5 ปีที่แล้ว +91

      Basically the physical version of the "Google translate loop". :D

    • @goury
      @goury 5 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      This is against benchies license

    • @hakont.4960
      @hakont.4960 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @_ David _ Yes. :D

  • @japonicaren
    @japonicaren 5 ปีที่แล้ว +296

    Always print Benchy pointing into the wind.

    • @g60force
      @g60force 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      open the nearest windows pointing towards the ocean!

    • @keithkittler188
      @keithkittler188 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Should I do this with ABS?

    • @vRachel
      @vRachel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@keithkittler188 do it

    • @pr0xZen
      @pr0xZen 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@keithkittler188 I believe PEEKs will yield more usable strength than ABS. Unless you have back warping trouble. Then you need more focus on ABS.

    • @rossmarzano
      @rossmarzano 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Never piss from the windy side of the boat.

  • @damagedtalent
    @damagedtalent 5 ปีที่แล้ว +175

    Your videos are always really really well done both for simple watchability and indepth testing Thank you very much!

  • @vladimirseven777
    @vladimirseven777 5 ปีที่แล้ว +220

    Video starts at 4:49 Too long ads works against advertiser.

    • @KillerI-gc4fe
      @KillerI-gc4fe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Ads usually never influence what I buy anyway.

    • @dylan.m8865
      @dylan.m8865 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      cgwworldministries advertising has a huge impact on sales. Sometimes it is more subconscious than we realize.

    • @themanhasnoname4984
      @themanhasnoname4984 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@dylan.m8865 aren it against my privacy to alter my sunconcius mind?? -as i cant directly erase any ad from it!

    • @you_just
      @you_just 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Duck it’s funny that you think advertisements don’t have an effect on what you buy.

    • @Gomisan
      @Gomisan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      thankyou! Saved 5 mins of my life

  • @SimplyV3rna
    @SimplyV3rna 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    My 9to5 is being test analyst and I can say your videos are a joy to watch. You know what to test, what to include in scope and what to leaves to chances and assumptions (coz it is impossible to cover all scenarios in a completely digestible video).

  • @JohnOCFII
    @JohnOCFII 5 ปีที่แล้ว +55

    I can’t believe my first comment is about the fantastic book you mentioned in your ad! I’m a pilot, and, while not really an engineer, can really appreciate the skills. That is a _fantastic_ book! I’m also humbled to say that I know people who participated in the early days of the Skunkworks.

  • @cptcrazyfingers9639
    @cptcrazyfingers9639 5 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Stefan, I listened to that audio book a few months ago and I was depressed when it was over. As an engineering student I felt the same as you about the technical struggles they faced. I was also very intrigued by the fact that Skunk Works had to literally invent, and fabricate, new tools and methods in order to achieve their design goals. Also, great video!

    • @dagoelius
      @dagoelius 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thats what I loved about Skunkworks.

  • @Tomcat2_kanal
    @Tomcat2_kanal 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Printing three towers when alternating layers between all towers without cooling actually still provides some cooling because until the next layer is printed on the same tower, it takes some time so it cools a bit...you should print one tower at a time to say there was no cooling...

  • @genioee
    @genioee 5 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    Thank you very much for this illusive test!
    As 3D printing is a field of mostly hobbyists (only those share information), many sources are very contradicting. Your (and others ofc) rigor really drives good quality information spreading and clears very important questions. Much needed answers should be found for strength, since quality vision based is really well explored, but repeatable strength tests are VERY rare.
    Since I build mostly usable parts this is of high interest to me - Thank you very much! Keep it going!

    • @truantray
      @truantray 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      3D printing on TH-cam is mostly semiemployed man children making pointless knickknacks, and one stripper.

    • @TheSuburban15
      @TheSuburban15 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just getting into PETG now. All the contradictory information is rather confusing and irritating.

  • @jeffwitz8556
    @jeffwitz8556 5 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    As you already have the installation for annealing, it could be very interesting to see if you can cancel the impact of cooling with annealing. It could be a good way to have both of gemometric quality and strengh performances.

    • @solventlessherbalist135
      @solventlessherbalist135 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you tried annealing pla with salt or sand or something similar? If so how did you change the scale of your model before printing?

  • @markymark9516
    @markymark9516 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    what a video. thank you for getting to the point about almost EVERY question I have about cooling. PLEASE keep it up and never leave my feed!:)

  • @19mitch54
    @19mitch54 5 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I tried to get a job as a mechanical engineer at Skunk Works. By the time they got back to me (almost a year later), I had already accepted another job. This other job with General Physics eventually sent me back to the rocket site at Edwards very close by. That was about 20 years ago. I worked there for a couple of years. The desert there is miserably hot and windy. I love your informative videos.
    I make parts for function and don't care how ugly they are. I will try to print with less cooling to see if I can get stronger parts.

  • @ColinDyckes
    @ColinDyckes 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think this shows that if printing 'vertically' you should only ever print ONE item at a time (or multiples sequentially). Even a group of 3 let's the previous layers cool and lessens adhesion.

  • @sinitarium
    @sinitarium 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    BAM! One amazing video after the other!! You are killing it. You answered so many of my questions already in 90m of videos using science this is superb I am out of superlative to describe how impressed I am.. I'll have to review these videos again and again because so much useful info it is mind blowing.
    I was also under the impression that cooling was having a huge impact on layer adhesion. Thank you so much for doing this video and getting so deep and technical about it that you answered all my questions and many more I did not even think about yet...
    Also, 3d scanning to conpare actual print to the model is so cool!

  • @andrewstallard1897
    @andrewstallard1897 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Absolutely a pioneer for us in the 3d community. I thank you for the time and effort you put into your work. Thanks again and again! - Andy

  • @matneu27
    @matneu27 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Very interesting facts to look at my next prints. In my opinion the issue of parts strength is important on things which design is given or you couldn't make bigger/stronger. 99% of the parts I print I created self and try to make them stronger by the design, if needed or failed by the first test. If I copy a broken part (that is not available or too expensive) and print it, I had to use all settings, including your video, to make sure the part will be able to replace the original.

  • @christianholderith7611
    @christianholderith7611 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very informative. I am new to 3D printing and will be receiving my first printer today, so am looking forward to printing. Information videos like yours is very helpful and an enjoyable learning experience. Thanks!!

  • @0ADVISOR0
    @0ADVISOR0 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    At 9:45 you can start seeing the collet slipping and shortlz afterwards the test bone breaking, maybe this sudden 'slip & grab' might introduce unnecessary load and cause premature fail of the test part?

  • @otterconnor942
    @otterconnor942 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My ender 3 prints very well, except when it's printing on the far side of the fan on overhands, like what you had on your benchy. From your test and mine, it seems like I need to increase the directions of the air, but decrease the total amount of air

  • @martincoufal7598
    @martincoufal7598 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Your videos are always great. Thank you for your scientific/technical approach to every topic you investigate.

  • @martylawson1638
    @martylawson1638 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I'd love to see how print temperature interacts with part cooling. My favorite PETG settings are 270C and 60% min fan speed on Mono-price I3 with the Dii duct.* This gives good overhangs and layer adhesion sufficient that the fracture surface of a hand broken test doesn't follow the layer lines. Normally this would also cause hellish stringing, but I print from a dry-box using molecular-sieve/Zeolite desiccant so my filament is SUPER dry. (* haven't calibrated the hot end, and PIDs needs tuning. often reads 255C during prints)

    • @TheSuburban15
      @TheSuburban15 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well, I guess that kinda confirms that my 235 degree setting was too low.

  • @jamessever8936
    @jamessever8936 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Can you print the outer perimeter with some cooling and then the internal stuff without it?

  • @t3hb1gr1gProductions
    @t3hb1gr1gProductions 5 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    This more or less validates everything I've observed so far when printing, but I think there's a few things worth mentioning for newer users:
    - More emphasis on slowing down prints/layers and tuning that. I usually slow down the print for layers below 20-30 seconds, and kick up the fan for layers below 10-15 seconds (depending on filament of course).
    - Super-important: Separate bridging cooling settings! Slic3r, Cura, S3D all have this (not sure why it's missing from Ideamaker, last time I checked), and I set it to full blast when bridging, which is critical on a 0.6mm nozzle! I still sometimes get artifacts as the fan takes time to spin up, but most of the time it works remarkably cleanly.
    - In addition, I think some slicers might offer separate overhanging cooling settings. I don't think there's an ideal implementation of it, where it would adjust the fan speed based on the overhang angle and strictly limit it to just the overhanging region, but I'm pretty sure Cura had an option for it at some point, and it's better than nothing. Overhangs tend to be where I have some trouble, even when following the 45 degree rule, simply since I can't have the slicer crank up the fan for those regions.
    Lastly, having visited your videos on how print temperature affects part strength, I think it would be interesting to visit a combination of the two factors and how to tune them together for different filaments, at least if there's anything new that you find.
    Thanks for covering the topics of 3D printed part strength. There are very few resources on it online, I had to learn most of it on my own, and it's nice to throw some proof at fellow 3D printing hobbyists that there are better ways to do things lol.

    • @M.V.P.
      @M.V.P. 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      good comment.

    • @poisonouslead85
      @poisonouslead85 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bridging fan speed is an option in Ideamaker but I can understand how you missed it because Ideamaker's setting UI is trash.
      Go to advanced settings > Other > Enable Bridging Detection and then the options aren't greyed out

    • @tsugha
      @tsugha 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      this is pure gold

  • @JustInTime0525
    @JustInTime0525 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nice video and testing! I'm wondering longer layer time could also affect the part strength, since by the time next layer comes the previous one would have cooled down right? Maybe different layer times could also be a subject to test in the future, thank you!

  • @Mike01Hu
    @Mike01Hu 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another competent video with short and to-the-point dialogue! It is so important to note that filament from different manufacturers can behave in totally different ways. It would be interesting to see strength tests with different colours too, as I have had dramatically different results for the same part made in different colours.

  • @thenextlayer
    @thenextlayer 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Phenomenal video as usual. I’ve probably watched it a dozen times.

  • @iTeerRex
    @iTeerRex 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very nice! Independently testing all the major parameters is a great idea. Looking forward to the rest of this series. Thanks Stefan!

  • @mallias2683
    @mallias2683 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I use Das filament petg and I am pretty satisfied. I can report that I have found small variations between types of spools. For me the transparent was the best in printing quality, layer adhesion and overall strenght. I always cool 100% when printing and used the recommended 230 and 75 degrees for temps. Thank you for your efforts and your videos. It really helps everybody that deals with a 3d printer.

  • @THX..1138
    @THX..1138 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Is there a way to turn off cooling for just infill? I would think when printing parts at 100% infill you could make a stronger part if you ran cooling only for the outer layers, then no cooling on infill.

  • @scienteer3562
    @scienteer3562 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Counterintuitivly, I think cooling fans should blow hot air at prints. The aim is to take the plastic below the glass temperature as fast as possible, but no further.
    The PETG result might be sure to water absorption. Water in PETG reacts during the high extrusion temps and damages the polymers. I think E3D did a blog post on this effect.

    • @MrHeHim
      @MrHeHim 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      For that reason I enclosed my printer, that will also lower the electricity used.
      And for part cooling in some situations I designed a small tower to print on the side with changing thicknesses depending on how much time I want the part too cool before the next layer. My printer doesn't have a cooling fan ;-P

    • @erikcederb
      @erikcederb 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I agree with you, the optimal thing should be to have a temperature controlled chamber that sits just below the glass temperature, and let the part "cooling" fan should cool the print down to the tg fast, but no further. For this reason i actually picked up a old Stratasys printer with a temperature controlled chamber that i intend to retrofit with new open source control boards, new hotend etc to make it into a printer for high-end engineering materials.

  • @HrDernacht
    @HrDernacht 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Always been printing sucessfully without cooling and with the lowest viable temp for layer adhesion - very nice to have seen this quantified so thank you very much for that 👍

  • @jonwebb9261
    @jonwebb9261 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's so refreshing to see somebody with an engineering background do truly valid testing on 3D printing. Great content :)

  • @GerDirtyHarry
    @GerDirtyHarry 5 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Thx for this comparison it get even worse if you print in a cold room (once i wasn t able to finish a print by a room- temp of 17°C with PETG it cracks while printing with fan on). Would be interesting how quality and strength comes out in a heated chamber with cooling fan which throws hotter air on the print :)

  • @coneillgroup6564
    @coneillgroup6564 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thats is the best audible commercial I seen. I might actually check it out this time.

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Do it! Great book.

  • @ThreenaddiesRexMegistus
    @ThreenaddiesRexMegistus 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m quite new at this but have already figured this out. I mostly print ABS because it’s easy to get a nice finish and further refine it. But I’ve got some excellent PLA prints out with much higher temperatures than usually recommended and practically no cooling. Empirically, these are substantially stronger than cooled versions and look much better too.
    Good information here! I like your methodical approach.

  • @jackytigra
    @jackytigra 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very informative video and a great way to show one of the many ways to use 3D scanning in quality control. If you use the tool deviation-label you can mark many locations on the STL file and see the exact deviation on that location.
    That is the tool I used in my video about my warped bed plate, for my CR10..
    If you have any questions about other tools in the software or about the possibilities with the Core scanner feel free to contact me!
    Thank you for making great content, I’m happy to see that you have some sponsors to support the time you put in these videos 👍🏻

  • @Jimmy2Horses
    @Jimmy2Horses 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I literally just posted this question to one of the FB groups I'm in regarding printing of an airboat hull for RC. My posit was that lower parts cooling speeds would enhance layer adhesion and in-turn assist with watertightness. Thank you for this video.

  • @DIYTinkerer
    @DIYTinkerer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks really interesting, so what we need is Cura to make an update that varies the fan speed based on overhang angle ( no overhang = no fan) to get stronger prints whilst keeping the quality high. That would give a good compromise of strength and quality.

  • @JohnSmith-rn3vl
    @JohnSmith-rn3vl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    These videos are ridiculously useful.

  • @Chris-pd4gz
    @Chris-pd4gz 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Stefan,
    Deine Videos sind echt der Hammer!
    Konnte dadurch meine Produkte wirklich um einiges optimieren.
    Vielen Dank!

  • @tedro7870
    @tedro7870 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Definitely how speed influences the strength. From 10mm/s to the max. Visually I find just a little difference between 30 and 75, so I'm really interested in strength.

  • @iraborton3941
    @iraborton3941 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think a lot of it depends on the mass of what you're printing. For example, we don't use any cooling fan to print thin wall models such as an airplane wing, there is little mass there to retain the heat, it cools fine on it's own.

  • @GordonGEICO
    @GordonGEICO 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Your no fan results are not really what I've seen in similar tests unless I'm printing way too hot.
    I'd like to see more options in slicers for turning off (or down) cooling only for infill and/or inner perimeters. Mostly, though, I use Colorfabb nGen with little-to-no cooling fan at 240c and get really good results.

  • @alextirendi5412
    @alextirendi5412 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Best 3D printing channel so far

  • @macwhite448
    @macwhite448 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    use the scanner to check the linearity of your tension test rig and then see about accounting for its misalignment or physically adjusting it

  • @ifell3
    @ifell3 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I always enjoy watching these tests, you know your doing well when Amazon says hi!!

  • @antalz
    @antalz 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're definitely right about the Ender3/CR-10 heatbreak fan. I upgraded a CR-10 mini to an E3D v6 and when I printed a benchy when I hadn't printed the cooling fan mounting bracket yet, it was the most horrible result I ever had.
    I'm also thinking this may be related to the watertightness of 3D prints. I used to get some good results with small boxes, but a large-ish boat I just printed is leaking. I'm going to try cranking the temperature up and disabling the cooling fan. It will still be cooled a little bit due to creality's design.
    I really also want to get my own universal testing machine running. So much to test, like creep and fatigue life. My machine is based on a raspberry pi though so I still have some programming to do.

  • @mrduck12345678
    @mrduck12345678 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    what if you could use a dual extrusion 3d printer and do the infill with one filament and the shell with another. The internal filament being PLA, and the external filament being PETG. Then set the slicer so walls print before infill on each layer. Then, make it so the PLA has a way higher extrusion rate than normal and higher temp to melt layers, but not too much to melt PETG. Also on the internal layers try turning off the fan?
    The PETG shell you would probably want to print close to normal settings, as it would be more for the asthetic, so the part doesn't deform. You would essentially be building a bowl of petg around a soup of PLA. I wonder how well it would hold up.

  • @Bisofication
    @Bisofication 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    @3:01 Audible has the biggest selection of audiobooks on the planet.
    Ermmm. How do you know?

  • @Kezat
    @Kezat 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I do wonder what makes the bigger difference with the cooling.
    Is it that the last layer is still hot? Or is it just that the last layer cools down slowly with no fan. Or a combination .
    I ask because with a larger more practical print the last layer might not be that hot even without a fan on, perhaps with a larger print the cooling fan might not change much if the strength is from laying plastic on a still hot layer.

  • @madDragon08
    @madDragon08 ปีที่แล้ว

    I recently got a 3d printer. Based on your Benchy that was smooth on one side and veiny on the other, that helps me understand this one print of mine. I still haven't found a good balance of layer time to cooling time and what not. Every model is going to have custom settings I guess. To a degree.

  • @VRietySociety
    @VRietySociety 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi stefan - for the standing samples ( correct me if I'm wrong here) - especially the petg ones wouldn't printing them at 0.15 layer height cause and issue for the test? when you print at a layer height of 0.15 your actual layers are inconsistent in height . you will have 3 layers 0.16 and maybe 1 layer 0.12 (you can see this effect under a magnifying glass). Wouldn't it perhaps be better to print at 0.12 or 0.16 to have more consistent layers and therefore less variables? most common z stepper motor and lead screw setups wat to print at layers 0.04 - 0.08 - 0.12 - 0.16 and so on.

  • @3DThird
    @3DThird 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent experiments Stefan. I believe using a thicker layer height when no cooling is used would reduce the deformation in your print since the nozzle will be touching the model for far less time. Also, one more thing to look into when testing for strength is the printing temprature. I noticed you used a relatively high temp especially since you were printing with 0.15mm layer height and typically for PLA I would recommend 190~195 for such a fine quality setting. I print most of my parts with minimal cooling since they are mostly functional and mechanical.
    Would love to see you go more in depth in this topic in the next videos!

  • @MichaelRainabbaRichardson
    @MichaelRainabbaRichardson หลายเดือนก่อน

    Another awesome video. Thanks!
    Btw, we pronounce F-117 "F one seventeen" because of a spoken shorthand used to convey numbers over the radio. Ironically, the F designation usually indicates Fighter but the Nighthawk is an Attack aircraft, like the A-10 Warthog but, stealthy.

  • @AdityaMehendale
    @AdityaMehendale 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Stefan, a philosophical question (that I have been thinking about for a while now). The function of the part-cooling-fan is to bring the temperature of the 3d-ink just below its glass-temperature. Would it then not be best to "cool" with hot air - for example 80'C for PLA, whereby the temperature reduction shall be done by the mass-flow rather than the temperature-differential, and the print would be held warm enough to have the following layer melt-into it nicely. I was considering "festo" style tubes emitting hot-air near my nozzle, being fed by a compressor with a heater/regulator to pre-heat the air to 80'C. What do you think?

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's an interesting question. I think you can kind of compare it to what's going on in heated chambers and that usually increases strength.

    • @AdityaMehendale
      @AdityaMehendale 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CNCKitchen Exactly. The difference is that the hot-air can be significantly hotter- e.g. 120'C if you are printing HIPS - that is something no "heated chamber" can afford. Furthermore, instead of a heavy and vibrate-y fan on the hot-end that wafts air in the general direction of the print, the compressed air can be precisely dosed exactly where it is needed.

    • @rkan2
      @rkan2 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AdityaMehendale Print in a Sauna? :P

    • @gangleweed
      @gangleweed 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AdityaMehendale I would agree with your proposal, then you could completely remove all fans from the hot end and use small tubing air nozzles for the precise air directing as you need it.

    • @AdityaMehendale
      @AdityaMehendale 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rkan2 Haha.. the hygroscopic filament-types won't like that ;)

  • @EdRo92
    @EdRo92 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    hi to get better addition just turn off the fan on the infill pattern and turn on when the extruder print the perimeter, you can do it writing a delay to turn on the fan between layers.
    by the way nice videos :)

  • @David-uk3nv
    @David-uk3nv 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I will surely try lowering cooling for my PETG prints. I almost exclusively print technical stuff and layer adhesion is often very critical.

    • @Kay0Bot
      @Kay0Bot 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yea i Set 20% min and 50% max fan cooling

  • @jameslaine2472
    @jameslaine2472 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I really like how thorough you are

  • @samuelrippe100
    @samuelrippe100 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the inf! I just saw this at the end of a 6+ day multiple print project that needs to be extremely strong.

  • @chrisiles1081
    @chrisiles1081 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great info, thank you. I especially like your attention to detail, not just accepting the results, but proving them by using sensible thoughtful tests. Thank you :-)

  • @quitusmaximus4664
    @quitusmaximus4664 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video and as a fellow Engineer I appreciate the testing approach and data layout.

  • @MightyKauri
    @MightyKauri 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was interesting. i completed my Bachelor thesis on a similar topic and can to the same conclusions. When looking at a cross-section of a print under a microscope you can clearly see that at low/no cooling the material is almost completely homologous, with cooling clear boundaries between the lines of filament can be seen.
    I was mainly using PLA but also did some testes with PC-ABS and found that even with no cooling and a heated enclosure of 110 C the boundaries were still very clear. As expected proportionally the PC-ABS had weaker inter layer strength to the PLA. I think this is why annealing prints can make such a big difference, it allows the print to homogenise.

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      In my experience besides better thermal performance, annealing PLA doesn't do a lot to the mechanical properties, it especially doesn't homogenize layers or melt them together better. There is actually a video in the making on this topic.

    • @MightyKauri
      @MightyKauri 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CNCKitchen for PLA I would agree. In my research i found a paper describing this processfor ABS. It would be interesting to see if for materials such as ABS or PC-ABS anneling (or maybe heat treating is a better term?) could improve the inter layer bonds.

  • @davidarango2207
    @davidarango2207 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If strength is a primarily concern, how could Multi Material (dual extruder or Prusa Multi Material) using soluble supports could allow hight detail no-cooling printing but still retain maximum layer adhesion?

  • @nelumbonucifera7537
    @nelumbonucifera7537 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    An annealing step may give the same benefit without the compromise in print quality. Seems like the same mechanism - the print spends more time between melt and glass transition temperatures. Worth a followup test?

  • @fredgenius
    @fredgenius 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Greight video, thanks. I find 0% fan is best for most prints, but I have it on 20% for areas that are unsupported (bridging), support interfaces, and for very small features where the layer time would otherwise be too short. But I agree, no cooling is usually better!
    Edit: This also applies to TPU!

  • @akiyaburst5782
    @akiyaburst5782 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Yess brah, your vids are so well tested mate

  • @MrHeHim
    @MrHeHim 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I found when i print multiple prints (water bottle holder) the parts cool passively enough that there's no significant curling because new filament hit cooler plastic thus having (part cooling) and yet failure rates are negligible between printing one or two at a time. My assumption is that the part when passively cooled still has a warmer surface closer matching its subsurface and when the layer is then added the temperature of the new filament doesn't reduce temps too far possibly giving it time to bond better but still cools quickly enough that it doesn't curl. Somewhat similar to slower printing or printing in an enclosure to keep the part warm. Which is also why i think of routing the heat break fan onto the part cooling duct, too cool it down enough that bridging is good and there's no curling but still keep the part warm enough that when another layer is added it will bond well.
    I should test printing outside layers first and test how then the inner layers act on the outside layer. I should have a small prime/ooze wall that prints very slowly as to not use too much filament while the part passively cools vs printing two of the same prints.

  • @adrianchupp
    @adrianchupp 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you Stefan, this video is cool and helpful! I love how your engineering comes out in your videos!

  • @davidzachmeyer1957
    @davidzachmeyer1957 ปีที่แล้ว

    Skunk Works is a fantastic book! Fans of Kelly Johnson will especially like the 1st half, where Ben describes the development of the SR-71. The 2nd half is about Ben's time leading the Skunk Works after Johnson retired, and centers around the development of stealth technology.

  • @AlteranKing
    @AlteranKing 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been printing PLA with 0% fan on my Creality. It's in an enclosure but the room that it's in is about 50 degrees F so that might be helping it. If I put the fan on I get a lot of warping.

  • @andrewithtaylora9666
    @andrewithtaylora9666 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A lot of people want the extra cooling for better overhang. I went with the Ductinator and get way less air. I also do my brand of PLA at 230c and also jump the bed temp up to 60c. seems to get better strength parts and a good quality PLA still bridges well anyways.

  • @davidbronke5484
    @davidbronke5484 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if you could vary part cooling over the model, to only turn on the cooling fan when needed. (only on overhangs) That would probably either require slicer support, or lots of manual gcode editing.

  • @elmariachi5133
    @elmariachi5133 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well thought and professionally executed, with useable results, as always, thank you!
    Of course your results raise additional questions:
    1. How much would the temperature of the heated build chamber affect the layer bounding of ABS/ASA prints? (I think ABS still is very important, because I consider the properties of ABS as suitable for everyday use objects, instead of just vanity objects).
    2. Could PLA prints get even stronger by printing those in a heated chamber?
    3. How far would the results from this tests change, after annealing the 0%, 20%, 40%, 60% and 100% PLA prints? With focus on the question: Could annealing compensate for the strength loss by printing with the fan on?
    :)

  • @paulrichmond6903
    @paulrichmond6903 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very well done!

  • @astro7996
    @astro7996 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What an excellent video Stefan!! Thanks for doing this kind of tests and sharing your results.

  • @gangleweed
    @gangleweed 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    LOL.....watching the melted filament sticking to the layers as the nozzle went around the perimeter reminded me of the time I made pancakes and poured the batter in a ring of concentric circles that mixed together to form a solid pancake......the adhesion was good considering the pan was quite hot at the bottom but they came away quite easily with a thin edged metal scoop.......possibly it was the oil film.

  • @3D_Shamrock
    @3D_Shamrock 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Stefan for your professional researches ! As a beginner in 3d printing field I need the information you provide on your channel.

  • @superkoksu487
    @superkoksu487 5 ปีที่แล้ว +142

    Every german be like:
    "As an engineer myself..."

    • @poweredbysalt4158
      @poweredbysalt4158 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      little known fact: in Germany you get your engineering degree when you are born

    • @Mikepet
      @Mikepet 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@poweredbysalt4158 As a German myself i can confirm that.

    • @miquelmarti6537
      @miquelmarti6537 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      having lived in Germany for a while I can confirm this is actually true.
      Also true that they have the best engineers. It fits them :)

    • @pr0xZen
      @pr0xZen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      And, an engineer in Germany (Europe in general) has at least a 3y bachelor engineer degree. Not just "I work with something technical that involves problem solving" :)

    • @superkoksu487
      @superkoksu487 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @EasyBreadToast ok just for you :
      Every asian by like :
      "As a Doctor myself..."

  • @StevenBlackco
    @StevenBlackco 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have just ordered the CR-10 V3 and it comes with a single cooling fan. What recommendations do you have for upgrading my printer so I can have fan control while maintaining proper cooling of the extruder?

  • @pr0xZen
    @pr0xZen 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tips on how to get good, even parts cooling (especially for PC and nylon in enclosure), while still minimizing printhead mass? Spending a lot of time, tinkering and what little money I have, on reducing direct drive all-metal printhead on my CR10S - and it kinda sucks spending money on a pancake to reduce weight, only to add it back and then some in big plastic shrouds and 3 fans.

  • @hearnia2k
    @hearnia2k 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Was your ambient room temperature consistent during the prints? Do you have an air conditioned home? If so, could that have been on/off during prints?

  • @TheAndyroo770
    @TheAndyroo770 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is there a Cura parameter that allows you to modify fan speed based on overhang angle so you can print majority at 30% fan speed but boost to 90-100% for overhangs?

  • @nWestie
    @nWestie 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Yes Skunk works is an amazing book, even if you don't get it from audible.

  • @edercarneiro
    @edercarneiro 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder, what if we bake them after printing ? What if we put then on a oven with a temperature close to the melt ppoint and let them being there for a while ? Would this make them harder ?

  • @qwewer6
    @qwewer6 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you happen to know what is your part cooling fans CFM?

  • @MrYaroslav210
    @MrYaroslav210 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Now what if the needed model is way bigger than the ship you checked your printeng parameters with? I mean, could it be that layers in that case would have enough time to solidify without forced ventilation at all and still remain the needed form without making the whole model look diffused?

  • @AverageJoe8686
    @AverageJoe8686 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Doesn't the heatbed change the temp of the part cooling air?
    I put a couple pieces of paper towel over the areas of the bed I'm not using and tape them down.
    The bed temp doesn't change as much and I use less electricity, along with cooler air above the bed itself.

  • @simonescaini
    @simonescaini 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi Stefan thanks for the great video....
    i was wondering if the influence of part cooling is as severe in a closed chamber with ambient temp around 50° C

  • @kloon22
    @kloon22 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    omg you did every test... this is why design of experiment is created to do like 10% of the work and stil have verry accurate results

    • @mitchellsteindler
      @mitchellsteindler 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Nothing replaces full factorial. DOE does not replace full factorial. It just optimized the amount of information for a gives amount of resources. If you are not resource contained, full factorial with multiple levels of each factor is the best.

  • @DennisFisherUK
    @DennisFisherUK 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The print temp makes a huge difference, I use eyrone PLA and it doesn't stick well at all below 215C cooling or not. I would think the different fan settings make more of a difference at higher print temps.
    It would be interesting to see if the Cura draught screen makes a difference as its supposed to be like a mini heated build chamber around the part. I was going to try some ABS but I have an ender 3 so I need a different fan shroud first.

  • @Omlet221
    @Omlet221 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    3:06 if there are audiobooks originally made only for listening too that you can’t read are they really audio ”books” or wouldn’t they just be podcasts?

  • @Shiruvan
    @Shiruvan 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    all of these little settings seem like they may contradict each other; layer time, longer can also mean that the nozzle touches the printed part longer, making it hotter instead of expecting the cooling to be more thorough.
    layer height might also contributed to that extended transfer of heat over smaller amount of material, sometimes infills and supports help to keep things warmer for longer therefore actually stronger
    I printed a tall and narrow object like a cylindrical hinge pin on 0.2mm and it's very weak on layer adhesion with it's geometry promoting cooling, 100% fan speed sure, but some other prints before were unbelievably strong, until taking into consideration about layer adhesion and cooling to be causing problems. (filament was eSun PLA+, but general PLA has also shown far better strength on specific settings on specific models)

  • @im1066
    @im1066 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I thought in the Filament Friday cooling video he taped off the bottom of the nozzle so even the very minimal cooling from the hot end fan wasn't able to hit the part and still got great results?

  • @theKashConnoisseur
    @theKashConnoisseur 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wonder if the PETG tests were so all over the place could be due to the filament being wet? Perhaps freshly dried PETG might give more consistent results.

    • @CNCKitchen
      @CNCKitchen  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, probably. But who dries his PETG all of the time?

    • @theKashConnoisseur
      @theKashConnoisseur 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CNCKitchen I must be the only one :)

    • @martylawson1638
      @martylawson1638 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CNCKitchen I do It's so Humid where I live I even print PLA from a dry box.

  • @MikhaelHausgeist
    @MikhaelHausgeist 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been curious about that very method of 3d printing by plastic at all. There are some liquid filaments and method of metal 3d printing that print not a line but whole layer at once... There no cheap way to do so? And how much will be difference in adhesion between layers so?
    Haven't access to any plastic or 3d printers, but for one of my possible project that information can be crucible. Just want to understand what I need to use for much more affordable resulting product in measurements where I haven't access to examples of both variant of producing - 3d printing and casting. For project also extremely important are flexibility to put any even slightest changes in model geometry more cost effective. If some one can help with some information please answer below this comment.

  • @propfella
    @propfella 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I can't inderstand all the trouble people are having with their PLA printing adhesion. I purchased a Anet ET4 2 weeks ago and from day 1 the only precautions I took were to clean the Glass which came with the printer. It also came with some special mat for the hot bed, but I purposely didn't use it. I wanted it as plain as I could and still have whatever I print sticking to the glass. If it didn't work, I'd take different steps until I found something which works.
    I honestly didn't think I'd hit it straight away. My very first print was a Dog, supplied by Anet. I made sure I was there as it finished and as the nozzle lifted from the print I tried to remover the dog from the glass, no way it would happen without extreme force. I allowed the bed to cool down for no more than 2 minutes and I simply lifted the dog from the glass and I heard a pleasing click as it let go. After each print and if the printer sat for any length of time, I used a 20 to 1 mixture of Metholated Spirits and tap water. I gave the bed just one spray and gave a brisk rub to the bed with a sheets of kitchen paper. You know it ready when you hear a loud squeeking as you clean the glass
    I then tried my luck with printing a filament guide. This proved even harder to remove and I left it to cool down for no more than a minute more. Three minutes of cooling and again click and it was free. Since then I've printed various items from tiny parts to filling the entire bed, the same story, let it coo. The glass is sparkling clean and any residue from the print is removed by the Metho. I've printed a few dozen items and today I omitted any raft or skirt and yes it still doesn't let go.
    I must add I had one failure. We're being overrun with Aphids, tiny black buggers which seem to like going up your nose or down your throat. They also appear to be attracted to hot PLA. The mongrels continually committed suicide by being buried under the PLA as the Nozzle passed overhead. I attempted to get one off the print and I left a fingerprint on the glass. A few minutes later the hot end tried to print a 90 degree corner tight where my fingerprint was and the extrusion followed the nozzle. Printing with yellow filament really showed up their skid marks. Black streaks through your work doesn't look the best. I'm now in the process of building a large covering for the printer from PVC piping and Perspex. It seems there isn't a retailer in Australia who wants to sell the PIpes and fittings. There are only two to choose from and although I asked for a price and told them I'd pay immediately, they've completely ignored me.
    So don't buy $25 Goo and expensive paraphanalia to make your pronts stick, a piece of Borosilicate glass, some Metho and water in a spray bottle and elbow grease is all you need. Temperatures were as stated for PLA, 120 and 60 degrees. Give it a try, it's cheap and it works. Good Luck

  • @suivzmoi
    @suivzmoi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    damn...excellent use of Gom equipment and software to make the thesis. amazing work.

  • @darius0lupus
    @darius0lupus 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if there is a way to increase or decrease cooling during certain parts of the print so on ledges you have no droop but deeper parts you let cool more naturally

  • @Andrewjasonlee
    @Andrewjasonlee 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great technical video. Love your stuff keep it up!