MUCH STRONGER 3D prints due to LESS COOLING! Testing PLA & PETG
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ส.ค. 2019
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I tested how much the strength or better the layer adhesion of FDM 3D prints is affected by the amount of cooling air we use. By properly adjusting this value we can increase the strength of our parts by more than 50% and make them almost uniformly strong.
I also scanned a couple of 3DBenchys printed at different fan speeds with my AtosCore from GOM to find out how cooling affects the accuracy of 3D prints.
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Cooling shroud test by NopHead: hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2016/...
GOM Atos Core (3D Scanner): www.gom.com/metrology-systems...
GOM Inspect (evaluate 3D scans): www.gom.com/3d-software/gom-i...
TESTED MATERIALS
Spoolworks PLA: e3d-online.com/spoolworks-pla
DasFilament PETG: www.dasfilament.de/filament-s...
PrintaMent PET-G: www.aprintapro.com/shop/print...
PRINTED MODELS
Temperature test tower: www.thingiverse.com/thing:209...
3D Benchy: www.thingiverse.com/thing:763622
Thanos bust: www.myminifactory.com/de/obje...
Blackbird SR-71: www.thingiverse.com/thing:308...
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Why don't you share your videos on r/3Dprinting or elsewhere?
Shared in my V-King builders group. You have the best videos
I found uniform flow to be highly important for high speed printing. With high speed printing you're only cooling the skin of the extruded plastic, so less is better.
What kind of PETG filament do you recommend? AprintAPro does not supply filament anymore, would you still recommend DasFilament?
Das Filament is good stuff. Still use it regularly.
Print a Benchy. Scan it. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Keep going until the Benchy is unrecognizable.
Then sell it as art. You will get rich 😉
th-cam.com/video/QEzhxP-pdos/w-d-xo.html Jpeg style
Basically the physical version of the "Google translate loop". :D
This is against benchies license
@_ David _ Yes. :D
Always print Benchy pointing into the wind.
open the nearest windows pointing towards the ocean!
Should I do this with ABS?
@@keithkittler188 do it
@@keithkittler188 I believe PEEKs will yield more usable strength than ABS. Unless you have back warping trouble. Then you need more focus on ABS.
Never piss from the windy side of the boat.
Your videos are always really really well done both for simple watchability and indepth testing Thank you very much!
Thank you!
I tried to get a job as a mechanical engineer at Skunk Works. By the time they got back to me (almost a year later), I had already accepted another job. This other job with General Physics eventually sent me back to the rocket site at Edwards very close by. That was about 20 years ago. I worked there for a couple of years. The desert there is miserably hot and windy. I love your informative videos.
I make parts for function and don't care how ugly they are. I will try to print with less cooling to see if I can get stronger parts.
What an excellent video Stefan!! Thanks for doing this kind of tests and sharing your results.
My 9to5 is being test analyst and I can say your videos are a joy to watch. You know what to test, what to include in scope and what to leaves to chances and assumptions (coz it is impossible to cover all scenarios in a completely digestible video).
Very nice! Independently testing all the major parameters is a great idea. Looking forward to the rest of this series. Thanks Stefan!
I can’t believe my first comment is about the fantastic book you mentioned in your ad! I’m a pilot, and, while not really an engineer, can really appreciate the skills. That is a _fantastic_ book! I’m also humbled to say that I know people who participated in the early days of the Skunkworks.
Your videos are always great. Thank you for your scientific/technical approach to every topic you investigate.
I always enjoy watching these tests, you know your doing well when Amazon says hi!!
Thank you very much for this illusive test!
As 3D printing is a field of mostly hobbyists (only those share information), many sources are very contradicting. Your (and others ofc) rigor really drives good quality information spreading and clears very important questions. Much needed answers should be found for strength, since quality vision based is really well explored, but repeatable strength tests are VERY rare.
Since I build mostly usable parts this is of high interest to me - Thank you very much! Keep it going!
3D printing on TH-cam is mostly semiemployed man children making pointless knickknacks, and one stripper.
Just getting into PETG now. All the contradictory information is rather confusing and irritating.
Stefan, I listened to that audio book a few months ago and I was depressed when it was over. As an engineering student I felt the same as you about the technical struggles they faced. I was also very intrigued by the fact that Skunk Works had to literally invent, and fabricate, new tools and methods in order to achieve their design goals. Also, great video!
Thats what I loved about Skunkworks.
I really like how thorough you are
Thank you Stefan, this video is cool and helpful! I love how your engineering comes out in your videos!
what a video. thank you for getting to the point about almost EVERY question I have about cooling. PLEASE keep it up and never leave my feed!:)
Absolutely a pioneer for us in the 3d community. I thank you for the time and effort you put into your work. Thanks again and again! - Andy
BAM! One amazing video after the other!! You are killing it. You answered so many of my questions already in 90m of videos using science this is superb I am out of superlative to describe how impressed I am.. I'll have to review these videos again and again because so much useful info it is mind blowing.
I was also under the impression that cooling was having a huge impact on layer adhesion. Thank you so much for doing this video and getting so deep and technical about it that you answered all my questions and many more I did not even think about yet...
Also, 3d scanning to conpare actual print to the model is so cool!
Thanks for making this video, I was curious and your results confirmed. Excellent work.
Yess brah, your vids are so well tested mate
I was JUST wondering about this! You're always right on time with awesome testing for my questions. :)
Thank you! Was waiting for a test like this! Awesome! :)
Very interesting facts to look at my next prints. In my opinion the issue of parts strength is important on things which design is given or you couldn't make bigger/stronger. 99% of the parts I print I created self and try to make them stronger by the design, if needed or failed by the first test. If I copy a broken part (that is not available or too expensive) and print it, I had to use all settings, including your video, to make sure the part will be able to replace the original.
Thank you Stefan for your professional researches ! As a beginner in 3d printing field I need the information you provide on your channel.
Always been printing sucessfully without cooling and with the lowest viable temp for layer adhesion - very nice to have seen this quantified so thank you very much for that 👍
Video starts at 4:49 Too long ads works against advertiser.
Ads usually never influence what I buy anyway.
cgwworldministries advertising has a huge impact on sales. Sometimes it is more subconscious than we realize.
@@dylan.m8865 aren it against my privacy to alter my sunconcius mind?? -as i cant directly erase any ad from it!
Duck it’s funny that you think advertisements don’t have an effect on what you buy.
thankyou! Saved 5 mins of my life
Another competent video with short and to-the-point dialogue! It is so important to note that filament from different manufacturers can behave in totally different ways. It would be interesting to see strength tests with different colours too, as I have had dramatically different results for the same part made in different colours.
Great technical video. Love your stuff keep it up!
As you already have the installation for annealing, it could be very interesting to see if you can cancel the impact of cooling with annealing. It could be a good way to have both of gemometric quality and strengh performances.
Have you tried annealing pla with salt or sand or something similar? If so how did you change the scale of your model before printing?
It's so refreshing to see somebody with an engineering background do truly valid testing on 3D printing. Great content :)
Thank you for your research and effort making this video!
Great info, thank you. I especially like your attention to detail, not just accepting the results, but proving them by using sensible thoughtful tests. Thank you :-)
thanks for this. cooling vs adhesion was my first thought the first time i saw an fdm printing.
Thanks for been very technical precise with your videos.
Very informative video and a great way to show one of the many ways to use 3D scanning in quality control. If you use the tool deviation-label you can mark many locations on the STL file and see the exact deviation on that location.
That is the tool I used in my video about my warped bed plate, for my CR10..
If you have any questions about other tools in the software or about the possibilities with the Core scanner feel free to contact me!
Thank you for making great content, I’m happy to see that you have some sponsors to support the time you put in these videos 👍🏻
Very informative. I am new to 3D printing and will be receiving my first printer today, so am looking forward to printing. Information videos like yours is very helpful and an enjoyable learning experience. Thanks!!
I'm receiving mine tomorrow. Also watching videos xD
Fantastic review
I go newer over 30% cooling with PETG, at my Tron cooling on my Ender 3.
Thanks for sharing 👍😀
Love your videos and dedication, you are my 3D printing data reference encyclopedia 👍🏻
A very excellent and informative video, thank you for your efforts!
Love the detailed investigations! TY!
Always quality work Stefan, great stuff and very helpful.
awesome video! I've actualy been looking for just this all week. thanks!!!
Best 3D printing channel so far
Great video. Thank you for educating the 3D printing community.
I'd love to see how print temperature interacts with part cooling. My favorite PETG settings are 270C and 60% min fan speed on Mono-price I3 with the Dii duct.* This gives good overhangs and layer adhesion sufficient that the fracture surface of a hand broken test doesn't follow the layer lines. Normally this would also cause hellish stringing, but I print from a dry-box using molecular-sieve/Zeolite desiccant so my filament is SUPER dry. (* haven't calibrated the hot end, and PIDs needs tuning. often reads 255C during prints)
Well, I guess that kinda confirms that my 235 degree setting was too low.
Good tests! This shines some light on a set of tests that would be useful to see about layer adhesion with print speed and temperature. Of course fan speed would play a role. Lower print speeds/higher temps I would think allow for more heat transfer from the nozzle to the layers below increasing adhesion or decreasing.
I’m quite new at this but have already figured this out. I mostly print ABS because it’s easy to get a nice finish and further refine it. But I’ve got some excellent PLA prints out with much higher temperatures than usually recommended and practically no cooling. Empirically, these are substantially stronger than cooled versions and look much better too.
Good information here! I like your methodical approach.
Great video and as a fellow Engineer I appreciate the testing approach and data layout.
Thx for this comparison it get even worse if you print in a cold room (once i wasn t able to finish a print by a room- temp of 17°C with PETG it cracks while printing with fan on). Would be interesting how quality and strength comes out in a heated chamber with cooling fan which throws hotter air on the print :)
I use Das filament petg and I am pretty satisfied. I can report that I have found small variations between types of spools. For me the transparent was the best in printing quality, layer adhesion and overall strenght. I always cool 100% when printing and used the recommended 230 and 75 degrees for temps. Thank you for your efforts and your videos. It really helps everybody that deals with a 3d printer.
Phenomenal video as usual. I’ve probably watched it a dozen times.
I literally just posted this question to one of the FB groups I'm in regarding printing of an airboat hull for RC. My posit was that lower parts cooling speeds would enhance layer adhesion and in-turn assist with watertightness. Thank you for this video.
As always awesome test 👍
Very well done your vids are always Amazing! Thank you so much for all your hard work
You're welcome. Very happy that people seem to enjoy what I'm doing.
Very well done!
Hey Stefan,
Deine Videos sind echt der Hammer!
Konnte dadurch meine Produkte wirklich um einiges optimieren.
Vielen Dank!
Thanks for the inf! I just saw this at the end of a 6+ day multiple print project that needs to be extremely strong.
These videos are ridiculously useful.
Greight video, thanks. I find 0% fan is best for most prints, but I have it on 20% for areas that are unsupported (bridging), support interfaces, and for very small features where the layer time would otherwise be too short. But I agree, no cooling is usually better!
Edit: This also applies to TPU!
Thank you for the video! It is very full of information!
Thanks for sharing!
Great content. Thanks for this research.
damn...excellent use of Gom equipment and software to make the thesis. amazing work.
This more or less validates everything I've observed so far when printing, but I think there's a few things worth mentioning for newer users:
- More emphasis on slowing down prints/layers and tuning that. I usually slow down the print for layers below 20-30 seconds, and kick up the fan for layers below 10-15 seconds (depending on filament of course).
- Super-important: Separate bridging cooling settings! Slic3r, Cura, S3D all have this (not sure why it's missing from Ideamaker, last time I checked), and I set it to full blast when bridging, which is critical on a 0.6mm nozzle! I still sometimes get artifacts as the fan takes time to spin up, but most of the time it works remarkably cleanly.
- In addition, I think some slicers might offer separate overhanging cooling settings. I don't think there's an ideal implementation of it, where it would adjust the fan speed based on the overhang angle and strictly limit it to just the overhanging region, but I'm pretty sure Cura had an option for it at some point, and it's better than nothing. Overhangs tend to be where I have some trouble, even when following the 45 degree rule, simply since I can't have the slicer crank up the fan for those regions.
Lastly, having visited your videos on how print temperature affects part strength, I think it would be interesting to visit a combination of the two factors and how to tune them together for different filaments, at least if there's anything new that you find.
Thanks for covering the topics of 3D printed part strength. There are very few resources on it online, I had to learn most of it on my own, and it's nice to throw some proof at fellow 3D printing hobbyists that there are better ways to do things lol.
good comment.
Bridging fan speed is an option in Ideamaker but I can understand how you missed it because Ideamaker's setting UI is trash.
Go to advanced settings > Other > Enable Bridging Detection and then the options aren't greyed out
this is pure gold
I agree with everything you said. when I have to print something important and quite strong I do not use the fan, I slow down the speed and I use 0,16mm layer height. in this way, I get stronger results.
Excellent work. I learned a lot on this video. Thanks!!
Great test! I would like to know the optimal strength of petg when adjusting temperature as well as cooing. Maybe even flow rate.
Also for 3d scanning: i suggest to make in ear headset, use 5 minute setting silicon to get a deep earmold impression, scan it, remodel for purpose and then print multi material. This is a project I'm currenty working on. Gonna print the first part in petg then finish off the actual ear plug section in ninjaflex. Struggling to make Prusaslicer work for two different filament print settings in one print though.
Great work! Keep it up :) You're adding much value to the community!
great job ! thank You !
Thanks for doing these in-depth investigations! One piece of often information I often struggle to find is quantitive information about the warping properties of filaments.
Given that I most often print molds for casting precise technical parts, warp is about the only material property I really care about; and not just if its low enough to stick to the bed; but if I can count on my holes having the right spacing, and if rods will turn into bananas or not.
There are some filaments out there like ABS-X or some PLA variants that claim to be zero-warp. Also, some say that a heated chamber helps for PLA just like it does for ABS. But an actual in depth investigation of the matter, is something I have been unable to find. Perhaps you will find it interesting to do something along those lines in the future.
Thanks for all of your great content Stefan. I really appreciate all of your hard work and I'm always anxious to watch your videos when you post them.
I do have a question for you...
I have a CR10S printer and I've only recently acquired an E3D Titan Aero direct drive to convert to an all metal hot end. I know you put an Aero on your CR10. There seems to be actually very little choice in terms of the mounts for the Titan Aero for the Creality printers that accommodate a part cooling fan, and in light of your findings in this video, one that will provide adequate all around cooling of the parts. How have you solved the mounting problems?
Thanks really interesting, so what we need is Cura to make an update that varies the fan speed based on overhang angle ( no overhang = no fan) to get stronger prints whilst keeping the quality high. That would give a good compromise of strength and quality.
Great video, Stefan! Does the scanning software give you a volumetric difference between scan and reference?
Thats is the best audible commercial I seen. I might actually check it out this time.
Do it! Great book.
Yes Skunk works is an amazing book, even if you don't get it from audible.
Excellent experiments Stefan. I believe using a thicker layer height when no cooling is used would reduce the deformation in your print since the nozzle will be touching the model for far less time. Also, one more thing to look into when testing for strength is the printing temprature. I noticed you used a relatively high temp especially since you were printing with 0.15mm layer height and typically for PLA I would recommend 190~195 for such a fine quality setting. I print most of my parts with minimal cooling since they are mostly functional and mechanical.
Would love to see you go more in depth in this topic in the next videos!
Great video, was very helpful for me, vielen Dank
That B roll though...subtle and well done.
You're mostly one of the last videasts with CHEP, Thomas and Angus to do technical research and provide knowledgeable videos. Thank you 💟
Thanks you, very interesting your tests
Very interesting and informative. Thank you
I recently got a 3d printer. Based on your Benchy that was smooth on one side and veiny on the other, that helps me understand this one print of mine. I still haven't found a good balance of layer time to cooling time and what not. Every model is going to have custom settings I guess. To a degree.
Hi Stefan, i found your test interesant because i have this question with my 3d printer settings to, but have no test equiptment like you. Thanks for your test. In the test you found out the less cooling creates a negative effects on the border and overhanging. If you want, kann you try a test with configuration of the slicer. My idea is, to setting on border and bridges a normal or little higher fan speed and the infill with zero fan speed. To make it nicer from outside and stronger in the infilling. By this idea is better if you print your test not multible (like tree) at one time, so they have time to cooling when the nozel changes betwen 1, 2 and 3 on prints, an i thing it is the result of the ship like worther then the test parts there createt 3 at one printig operation (but i think its not realy change the result).
Your no fan results are not really what I've seen in similar tests unless I'm printing way too hot.
I'd like to see more options in slicers for turning off (or down) cooling only for infill and/or inner perimeters. Mostly, though, I use Colorfabb nGen with little-to-no cooling fan at 240c and get really good results.
as always nice work
Great work Stefan, will you also do the stress test after an annealing process? Perhaps that will counter act some of the negative effects due to cooling during the print process.
Another great video - Thanks.
Thank you for such comprehensive testing Stefan! I found it very useful. I kept wondering about your suggestion to print slower in order to let the PLA cool naturally. Do you think that the part being cooled naturally adheres better than low fan setting cooling? It still cools, doesn't it? Cools more evenly perhaps (inside and out)?
Thanks for this video, very interesting as always. Reagarding the GOM Scanner: I would love to see how you can convert the scaned surfaces of an complex model into a solid model like step. With a solid like step it is easy to modify it afterwards.
You're definitely right about the Ender3/CR-10 heatbreak fan. I upgraded a CR-10 mini to an E3D v6 and when I printed a benchy when I hadn't printed the cooling fan mounting bracket yet, it was the most horrible result I ever had.
I'm also thinking this may be related to the watertightness of 3D prints. I used to get some good results with small boxes, but a large-ish boat I just printed is leaking. I'm going to try cranking the temperature up and disabling the cooling fan. It will still be cooled a little bit due to creality's design.
I really also want to get my own universal testing machine running. So much to test, like creep and fatigue life. My machine is based on a raspberry pi though so I still have some programming to do.
use the scanner to check the linearity of your tension test rig and then see about accounting for its misalignment or physically adjusting it
Nice!
Can you do a strength-comparison for these PETG-prints with the (stock) Prusa and the (stock) Artillery-fan ? I notice that even with the same gcodes I get pretty big differences in adhesion sometimes between my A8's and the Artillery. Both around 40% cooling sofar to be able to have good overhangs but the A8's seem to be making it stronger somehow but less accurate.
Every german be like:
"As an engineer myself..."
little known fact: in Germany you get your engineering degree when you are born
@@poweredbysalt4158 As a German myself i can confirm that.
having lived in Germany for a while I can confirm this is actually true.
Also true that they have the best engineers. It fits them :)
And, an engineer in Germany (Europe in general) has at least a 3y bachelor engineer degree. Not just "I work with something technical that involves problem solving" :)
@@videogamechannels360 ok just for you :
Every asian by like :
"As a Doctor myself..."
Hi
can you do an impact testing a 3D printed filaments and then scan it with your 3d scanner to see an indentation/ damage caused and plot it.
Thank you
Regards
omg you did every test... this is why design of experiment is created to do like 10% of the work and stil have verry accurate results
Well done video on a very important topic! I have suspected that part fan speed should be high only during overhangs -now you have proven it!
Now I wonder if post cured (what they call annealed) PLA parts can get to 'no-fan' strength but use a bit of fan to help overhangs.
Post cure of PLA functional parts is becoming my standard because heat deformation and creep are unacceptable without it.
FYI, others blamed my results on the Creality leaking fan shroud so I did follow up tests with the bottom of the fan shroud blocked on my Ender 3 and got the same great results with no cooling fan. So my profile does work. Watch at 3:05 here to see what I did. th-cam.com/video/QvyesgYLwQk/w-d-xo.html
Very informative video, thanks a lot for your effort :-)
You're welcome. Happy that people enjoy what I'm doing.
Hi, you could use packing to adjust for any offset in the jaws.
Please would you consider some temp and cooling tests with TPU 👍
Hello, It's great video!!! Can you test PLA from anycubic for example, in my experience it is very strong. Or maybe transparent filaments will be stronger than colored?
Fantastic per the usual. 👍