Steamforged Games: The good, the bad and the ???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ค. 2024
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Street Masters announcement: steamforged.com/blogs/brands/...
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SFG gov.uk: find-and-update.company-infor...
Steamforged Holdings gov.uk: find-and-update.company-infor...
0:00 Intro
1:10 The video I was going to make...
9:04 A very important thing for you to consider
12:41 The video I ended up needing to make - บันเทิง
I have now received an initial response from SFG. In it they make the following statement: "We are absolutely a going concern. In fact, ...we are posting a profit this year of circa £2m."
I'll have a meeting set up with them soon for further information. They also mentioned the private equity firm Foresight that I will look into more.
I'd like to clarify something here: Making board games is difficult and complex. As you can see just from Rich's response to this comment, there's a lot to navigate. This is often why companies can struggle but it's also why often backers might not "get" the full picture, especially long term. On top of that we don't have all of the information as much of it is not public. With that in mind I'd like to thank SFG for being so willing to share information further. I'll keep you all informed of what I find out.
Hi KoA - we posted a reply below in the comments - and to re-clarify here yes, our company is and continues to be a going concern - which is externally audited on a yearly basis at our request - comment copied below:
"Thank you for covering our news on our recent acquisition and reaching out for comment on this video. Being UK time, we received the email in the middle of the night and responded this morning (16 hours ago) - so appreciate you may not have read it your time yet or had chance to respond :)
To help clarify the cashflow question you had the at end of the video - We have a yearly audit by an external auditor on all our accounts to ensure our going concern status as a business. Kickstarters and crowdfunding in general is quite hard to capture from a standard account set due to how and when profit and revenue is recognised - for example in one financial year you may receive £x from a campaign, but the profit from that campaign isn't released until the following financial year - meaning that can often lead to a yearly outturn being in a negative (as our last year shows).
Due to the release of Resident Evil 1 (shipped this year), Monster Hunter (shipped this year), Euthia (just left the factory today), Runescape and Local Legends - all arriving before March 2024 this year (our financial year) with our customers - we are due to see those project's profit recognised in this years accounts - even though the projects 'success' was last year. Alongside our ongoing trading revenue from our retail business, this will be leading to a circa £2m profit posting for this financial year.
All of the above information is shared alongside our plans with our auditors and thats the reason we operate a 12-18 month going concern with confidence. It also means that we have a strong visibility of anything that could effect that and will make changes as needed way ahead of time so we can deliver these plans.
Happy to talk further in detail in a call as I mentioned in the email - but felt a reply here would help explain the last part of your video to your viewers. Thank you again for covering this."
If they're posting a 2 MILLION profit... why did they make staff redundant?
Good to hear. Will be there to listen.
Thx for all this good work
@@thegameskingdom811Most probably made people redundant to keep the business streamlined, cut costs and be more profitable. Many companies will make redundancies to head off any problems in the future.
@richprice482 if you make people redundant and then post 2 million profit that's shitty in my opinion
I am constantly surprised with the amount of effort and work you put into this channel considering it’s not your primary income.
Keep up the great work, my friend!
I've been a director of a UK limited company and very impressed you got this info and understand it.
Excellent video.
I'm going to look into upping my Patreon pledge for you.
This reporting is excellent and a fine line to tread between consumers and companies.
The "reporting" is very superficial and shows a lack of basic accounting understanding and makes assumptions/ allegation's that needed to presented to the company for comment before publishing. I like KoA and he does an awesome job for boardgamers with a great attitude - but this was a lot of conclusion jumps that really need clarification as they do accuse SFG of bad practises at best, and accounting fraud a the worse.
Thank you, both of you for the feedback.
To Mylor, I am glad to hear you liked the video and promise to continue to work on improving even more. To Mark, I appreciate the feedback because it makes it clear that I can still improve in my communication. As far as I'm aware I have no hard stance, hot takes or accusations in this video. I presented what I have so viewers themselves can come up with what they feel. There are times if I feel I *do* have all the information that I make a hard stance. See my reporting on Toyzzo for an example of that. Here I simply look into them as requested and share what I find, ideally in a succinct and organized way.
While I do this part time as I can after my normal day job and family needs, I do try to do my best, which is why I met with them today and why I reached out (even if unexpectedly). I literally have Rich's number from SFG now so I can discuss more easily and readily if something does come up.
Either way, even in normal, full time, real company reporting updates happen and they'll happen here as well. I'll share the added clarification and information I have (and was shared here in a pinned comment) in my next news video.
I try to cite my sources, clarify when I'm not sure of something and do what I can within my means to get it right, and if not quite right, correct it as soon as I can given the circumstances. Your thoughts on me making bold claims like bad practices and accounting fraud show that there is room for me to further improve on my communication so I'll definitely take that to heart.
I picked up street masters at my store. The game is super fun. And if sfg has it now and I can buy more content or even get aftershock, I will be buying more content.
That's the hope right?
I think the Street masters being bought by SFG will end up a good thing for those of us waiting for it, but I'm curious where SFG will be in 2-3 years, and what happens to their own pending campaigns.
They'll cancel it and blame the customers.
I would bet SFG does something similar to Monolith did with OrcQuest, they will run a Streetmasters campaign and if they hit the funding goal then they will deliver to old backers
I was honestly surprised I *didn't* see them do that.
SFG did it for Euthia resurrection but that was a cancelled campaign by DIEA games before they helped them bring it back. Monolith helped MAZE complete a half baked complete game that was funded to old and new backers.
For anyone interested in Street Masters I'd highly recomend the IOS game, I have the physical game as well and find the app to be a great way to play. Could be a cheap way to test out if you'll like the game or not before any future Steamforged campaigns. I also find playing it is a good way to get a rules refresher if I'm planning to play the physical game after not having played for a long time.
You appear to mis-interpret the financial report. Cash from a Kickstarter creates a liability for the company, not profit, (you can't claim any profit until after the liability is discharged - "Under the accrual basis of accounting, revenues received in advance of being earned are reported as a liability"). I would read this report as saying they generate profit from selling games that have been kickstarted and completed, (and this is supported by their web stock actually having stock). Please ask SFG to clarify.
I met with them this morning and I will update for sure!
first of all, thank you so much for your investigations and in detail videos.
You are very welcome :)
My group really Luke's the Monster Hunter game...and we were looking at the new ICE BORNE follow up....I have to make a decision today...you always worry about if you get the game you supported.. Great video Mike.
Thanks Ron! Sorry it's down to the wire. Be sure to read their response to my pinned comment and then make a decision based on that as that's more of the full picture. I'll update in a video of course but will be after you have to make a decision on that :D
@@TheKingofAverage And I supported them...
I hope Steamforged sticks around for a long time. They're my favorite game maker right now and the quality of their products is over the top. They're one that i don't mind the "less value" (i put that in quotes, because they're usually still great value) because i know the quality is there. I've backed several of their campaigns and have had no issues with fulfillment to date. I don't have the physical product for Epic Encounters Local Legends yet, but they give regular updates, so i know it's at the printers. I'm not really worried with the number of outstanding products because they seem to stagger them well to keep their entire development team busy, which, as long as they keep hitting their goals, is a good thing.
I am really upset with the current Horizon one, because i have almost all of the first one, but they ran this one during Black Friday and i just don't have the extra funds for it because of the timing. I'm hoping to be able to late back it.
Thanks, I bought a couple of shirts from Into the AM because of seeing their sponsorship of your videos.
Did you get them yet? I am sure you'll LOVE them! :)
One thing to remember when looking at those balance sheets is that money from a crowd funding campaign is considered a liability in its entirety until it is delivered at which point it becomes revenue to offset expenses (and hopefully profit). CMON has often had spikes where their liabilities exceeded revenue due to massive campaigns such as Marvel Zombies. That is a bit of a simple explanation but SFG looks quite financially healthy at this point.
A very good point! It was their reliance on current crowdfunding to be a going concern that perked my ears up a bit, not so much the negatives.
Rich said they'll post a ~2mil profit this year so that's good!
Now if only we could get our Myth content
I wish I could give you closure. Honestly I'm really surprised this game hasn't been resurrected.
I appreciate your passion and the effort to that you put in. I’m just concerned about your approach here.
I don’t know what your career background is, but if I was in your shoes I would have asked an accountant or financial expert to verify my understanding before taking it public. The figures you reviewed are also pretty old and probably still show some of the effects of COVID.
Additionally, providing a company one business day to respond to something like this feels completely unreasonable. Even more so when there’s such a big time zone difference.
Without having all your facts and conclusions verified, you’ve raise serious concerns to a public forum. There are people who might cancel their pledge or avoid future campaigns from SFG because of this. Your actions most likely will now affect the financial performance of this company…
Having such a public forum, means you have a responsibility to get things right the first time.
I’m speechless…
My career background is software development, which I do as a normal day job. This entire channel I do on the side. That is, on the side of a full time salary job and having a family of 6. I do what I can, within my means.
Sadly, running a channel for as long as I have you learn things over time that aren't always 100% noticeable from a viewer perspective on first thought. Like the platform I have here.
Your initial though, and I can certainly understand the initial thought because it makes sense at first, is as you say. If you don't know for sure, don't say anything.
But that's a VERY black and white way of looking at your possibilities. So I'll explain why I made this video:
#1: Backers are my main concern, not the company. While I care about doing right by the awesome companies that make the cool games we love, in the end my focus and my concern is backers, especially lately in light of a year staff reductions, liquidations and more.
With this in mind, I've had numerous people ask my thoughts on SFG. Almost daily since their Horizon campaign launched since their Iceborne PM closes on December 1st, so time is short and people want to know. A video voicing a possible concern (as only part of the nuanced and lengthy video) does them little good on December 2nd.
#2: You can act responsibly when you don't have all of the information. I could have put "DANGER!" on the thumbnail. I could have put "SAFE!" on the thumbnail. I put neither. I simply stated that I looked into the company and that video will address many sides to the company. The idea that I can't share my thoughts until I have all the information mostly leaves me with no video ever. We'll never have all of the info, we are not investors. They will not share the documents I requested with me. They can add some information but ultimately it's all taken at face value or not. At some point I have to decide "that's enough" and make the video. Where that line is drawn can be debated, but it needs to be known how fuzzy and personal opinion that line is.
But as with my thumbnail, I have several disclaimers, don't make any hard stance calls and simply present the viewers with the information I have. No one can watch my video and blindly act in any way except what they personally wish to do. I told them to do nothing, I just shared the public information they have available in an efficient way that saves viewers the time it took me to research all of this and then encapsulate it for them in video form. There is very little risk to that.
#3: The flip side of the coin hurts. What if I had some worries but opted to say nothing? And then tons of people get screwed over or have a bad experience if my hunch is right? This is why I do share my opinions, even if negative or worried.
For years I believed Mythic Games. People had concerns but I chose to believe them. And in doing so I led many more to follow me to back them a ton and end up screwed like I am with them now. I have people commenting saying they only backed Anastyr because of my recommendation. Now I can't know the future, but if I had a worry, said nothinig and it ends badly for backers then that's a MAJOR loss to my entire purpose of running this channel.
What if I say something about a company and it's wrong and hurts the company? What if I don't say something about a company and would have been right and hurt backers? The only solution is a video like this. No clickbait. No hard stance, just sharing the information I have, doing the best I can in the time that I have and promising to continually update as more information is discovered.
If after reading this you are still speechless as to why I'd make this video then we'll simply have to not see eye to eye on this subject, which if fine. Hopefully however this helps explain it a bit more. :)
#1 - I can appreciate that people have been asking for your option, but there's a big difference between answering them privately and addressing a public forum. In a public forum you are sharing your concerns with people who haven't asked for it.
#2 - I completely agree that we won't always have 100% all the information, but there is an expectation of sufficient due diligence to support your findings.
You don't have a financial background. The financial complexities of crowdfunding where campaign's affect more than one fiscal year can't be easy for a layman to understand. It would have been prudent to get input from someone with a financial background. I've seen some comments of people who clearly are more aware of how corporate finance work who have questioned your interpretation/conclusions. The problem is 99% of the viewer will never see those comments and will be focused solely on what you said during the video.
You mentioned that you gave SFG one working day to respond. I don't know what your industry or work experience is like, but from my experience if a media personality raised concerns about the financial stability of the firm there is a lot that would need to be considered in the response. Ideally, you need input from senior management, legal and finance. And this would be on top the their day jobs. I don't know how to articulate it, other than to say that the exception of them responding in one working day blows my mind. And that's not even mentioning the time zone difference. You know they are UK based, so when you sent the request, surely you must have realised it's the middle of the night int he UK?
Yes, you tried to be diplomatic and say here are the facts, make your own decision. But let's be honest here, you are an influencer. Majority of the people viewing this video will only really focus on "He's concerned, He's the guy in the know, therefore I am now concerned". A point proven by people reaching out to you and asking your opinion on SFG. The difference is they already had questions and sharing your option with them is... I don't know to phrase it, but it's what we do as humans and it's fair. But when posting on a public forum you've now sown a seed of doubt about SFG that will undoubtedly affect their financial performance.
#3 - It's crowdfunding. There are risks in crowdfunding, so anyone who engages in crowdfunding should acknowledge and accept that. Do people get burned or hurt occasionally? Yes. Are they aware of the risks when engaging with crowdfunding. That's debatable, but they should be.
This again links to what I said above. You might be pragmatic about it and ask the viewer to form their own opinion, but you are an influencer. Regardless of whether or not you mean to, majority of the people watching this video won't think hard about it or do their own research or even read the comments section to see alternative points of view. Majority of the people will now think SFG is a bad company. Wasn't your internet, but that's the reality of it. They watch your video's ultimate for your opinion.
Conclusion:
I don't think this is something we will ever see eye to eye on, and that is ok. I want to be clear, I don't have any issues with you as a person. I'm not meaning to attack you in any way. You make some great content and you're clearly passionate about the industry/hobby.
My only concern is your approach to this video what will now affect the livelihoods of the people at SFG. If I was in your shoes I would have wanted more due diligence before raising such big concerns on such a public forum of people who are there for your opinion.
I agree he might have given too short of a turnaround for SFG to respond, but the whole point of EU disclosure regulations on profitability is so you DON'T need an accounting degree to understand it. I have a degree in Economics, but I don't think advanced accounting courses at a university are necessary to see with your own eyes if a line item on a simplified balance sheet like this one is positive or negative.
You are correct this information could cause some people to cancel games....but what is the alternative? People backing blindly? My point is this. It seems you are more upset with KOA posting this in general than you are with anything specific he said. And that's a red flag for me. Like, if you think he misinterpreted something, you SHOULD point that out.
BUT if another board game company is at risk of not delivering future projects due to financial issues....we should't keep quiet about that just because saying negative things 'feels bad.' If KOA truly has a responsibility as you say, does he not have a responsibility to report if a company has a higher risk of defaulting on their obligations?
I too am speechless...after saying my speech ;)
Economics and accounting is not the same thing. The business model for a crowdfunding organisation is very different to a traditional business where you’d produce the goods, sell it and get the money. There are nuances in how things are accrued and reported.
When covering the financials, KOA didn't provide a lot of context to what he was presenting. It was mostly a positive number is good and a negative number is bad. There was no additional explanation as to what each line represents or why it's good or bad for it to be positive or negative.
You are right, I didn't have a specific thing that he said that I didn't agree with. Because I don't feel like I am qualified to address the specific numbers. I only did financial management to second year at university and that was a long time ago.
What I do feel like I am qualified to comment on is that he, as someone who is not in finance, has made some assumptions on a few numbers on a top line report without showing any indication of a deeper knowledge of the information or the complexity of their business model.
As an example, another comment on this video by someone who appears to be more versed in finance than us:
"@toddferrullo1871 • 18 hours ago
One thing to remember when looking at those balance sheets is that money from a crowd funding campaign is considered a liability in its entirety until it is delivered at which point it becomes revenue to offset expenses (and hopefully profit). CMON has often had spikes where their liabilities exceeded revenue due to massive campaigns such as Marvel Zombies. That is a bit of a simple explanation but SFG looks quite financially healthy at this point."
This is the type of context I would expect responsible reporting to include in their review of a company, but it was completely ommitted.
That combined with the fact that SFG was not allowed enough time to respond is what drove my concern.
I fully agree that if the company is at risk that should be explored.
I fully agree that backer loosing money because companies fold is bad.
But in my mind and how I would approach it, I would do a lot of due diligence and have to be very confident in what I am saying before I would make something like this public.
To oversimplify it. Which is worse?
- 10 000 backers losing $500
- or 500 people loosing their jobs because unverified opinions led to a loss of consumer faith and campaigns under preforming.
Yeah it sucks if backers get screwed, but it doesn't ruin their lives. Making claims like this has the potential to ruin lives. I'd want to be damn sure that what I am saying is as verified as humanly possible...
We are probably not going to see eye to eye on this and that is ok. I have said my peace.
The video is out there. Let's see where the chips fall.
I would like to see a video about the complete Shadow Tactics board game mess. Successful video game series, 2 campigns on KS - none fulfilled and even the IP-owner is closing business. However, there is only one lonely wolf on this project (that is not the company owner!) that somehow tries to do "something". If I wouldnt be on that boat, I would take my popcorn and see this catatrophe from a distance. But a good base for a classic KoA-Red-Flags-In-Crowdfunding-Video
totally with you on that matter
Sorry but when you mentioned about ' getting around kickstarter rules' I couldn't help but think of the pirates code and laugh. While there are limitations to what is on Company House, there is some interesting finds such as an Awaken Realms UK.
I am trying find out what is going on with SFG for a while. I've had issues with them fulfilling my Monster Hunter: World order. I have had months of radio silence on and me having call them out on social media two occasions; only to get the run around and not be helped. I am soured on backing anything with them over this whole experience
They may have Altar Quest, but they don't have Zombicide
Which IS good for them as Zombicide sucks ass
SFG are one of those companies that I want to love so much, they own the rights to all my favourite IP's dark souls, elden ring, resident evil etc. They are very local to me, I live a few miles away from their home base, and they all seem like great people who work their. However, for me, they always seem to fall slightly short on the overall experience with their games. They never make a bad game by any means, but I just never get "wow'd" by any of them either.
Whenever I see them announce a new big IP game, Its always a little bittersweet for me, as in I know they are going to produce a very high quality game, and it will look great on the table, but I also know now that the gameplay is going to be a bit Luke warm.
I hope they can change that opinion with future games, but I have been saying that for a good few years now.
I think KOA missed the Dark Souls KS he was not doing KS back in 2016. That was my first I went all in. They delivered, late but still. The game is not bad per se, but long (too long for many)... most games they did after just look like a sort of reskin for a different ip (monster hunter, horizon...). They deliver on quantity, but not on quality of the rules / gameplay imo, at least not for the playtime available to me.
Fingers crossed Rivet Wars will be ok. It got delayed passed that March date you mentioned, but maybe that's so they can focus on the other games and have Rivet Wars be a strong start to their next year. As a hyper fan of another series "saved" by SFG, I am rooting for them but can't shake the bad feelings. Thank you for your video and I look forward to your follow up.
Thank you for researching the industry
You are very welcome!
I got my full aftershock all in, and grateful i did. Glad i never backed the indiegogo one. SFG is probs a safe bet for this, so lets see if they can do anything new with the IP.
Black List Games living up to their name, I see.
I backed MH Iceborne and Elden Ring. I almost backed Horizon, but need to get the original MHW to the table first. I also own and played Bardsung up to the first boss and it became way too much of the same grind. I like the production value of their games but at least with Bardsung, it needs a better hook to keep me going.
As someone who's line of work depends of the finding and using of contractors and sub contractors...when you find the reliable contractor...you go back and back and back... Not because the price is always perfect, sometimes is, but because of reliability. They take care of me, so I take care of them... This applies to CMON and SFG... For the last few years I have said that they are companies I'm definitely willing to give my money to more often because they will take care of me. Plus the quality is solid, and the communication is in most cases, the GOLD STANDARD for our hobby. They update regularly, communicate regularly and most importantly, deliver regularly. Glad they took some more BLG IP, cause God knows BLG has dropped the ball.
That's a really apt explanation I feel!
Watching all your bad company videos, makes me appreciate Mantic Games, who campaign i backed in March of this year and true to their word. They’re delivering this Month and in fact some UK backers have already received their games.
I think recent years with crowdfunding has helped us all appreciate companies that actually deliver :)
The one thing ill give steamforged games is their ability to actually come through. I went through the disaster dark souls kickstarter. After i gave a shot at re2 and dmc. Both were far better in terms of communication and follow up. I never felt duped, or lied to after.
I bought Streetmasters like 3 years ago. Game is fun, minis are cool, but the expansions are crazy expensive on ebay. Hopefully the original backers will get their stuff, and some of the expansions get reprinted.
Keep up the good work
Thank you very much! :)
I've not looked at the company reports in this case but I have looked at plenty before, damn I've had to file on company house myself previously. What I will say is the reports alone don't tell the entire story, they are just what is legally required to be shared. Does it cover existing pre-paid contracts of production, IE they paid x factory to produce x product, product x doesn't exist so all you have listed is a massive out going for which there is no return, which will happen when product x is now produced and excess is put forwards as capital. It also doesn't detail information about investors, you said the holding company has many other share holders and likely money people, this won't be on the SFG reports.
It is however concerning and very interesting, I love this sort of information digging but I'm not sure we should start hitting panic yet, though I think its a company I wouldn't have more than one outstanding project with (I'm on zero in this case so golden) at any time just to be safe.
Seems they said essentially what I did with specifics for their case.. I did wonder because company house reports are often misleading when taken in isolation.
Mythic DID ask for >$1m in support for darkest dungeon video game studio, then still had to raise prices.
I got really worried about steam forge. After the hit from mythic I just saw the same behaviour with them lots of crowdfunding before they delivered and I have no evidence and I hope they all work out, but from all I read and hear it just reminded me of the actions by mythic before the crash. So I took a hit and refund earlier this year on rivet wars.
Lasting Tales backer here. Hopefully Blacklist is able to use some of that money to further their other projects.
FS1 and Lasting Tales backer here too. I think that is why they are selling off so much IP, like the did here and with Altar Quest to SFG. As upset with I am at BLG for what they did....their current leadership seems to really be working hard to get current obligations fulfilled as best as possible. That doesn't erase the bads, but it's admirable. They clearly are not walking away. So I'm hopeful...even if I don't think I will get it until 2025.
Yeah I hope Steamforged won't be a second Mythic for me. I could resist Elden Ring, but I'm in for Horizon.
I'm more concered about Ludus Magnus right now, after the stock selling gamefound campaign for Nova Aetas Rennaissance and looks like they will do the same for Black Rose Wars Rebirth soon. It's good if they can get money to produce my 2nd Wave Nova Aetas stuff and I was happy that they had a big booth in Essen and at least I got Wave 1 Nova Aetas (without additional payment) but still concerned.
I like SFG as a company overall since they always deliver. I went all in on multiple of their games. Can't wait to receive Elden Ring and MH Iceborn. I passed on the Horizon Forbidden West, since I have the all in pledge of the first game and haven't even opened some of the boxes ... the MHW one was really nice and the minis are beautiful! The Resident Evil 3 I found a bit meh. The Dark Souls game had great minis but was also a terrible game. I have to be honest and I just tend to buy these for the minis since the games themselves I often find meh. Wish they had a mini only pledge.
When you make a video about Blacklist Games, could you please look into preorders of Contra and Mega Man Adventures in the EU? I have posted comments about it in their recent updates, and they have Mega Man “completely fulfilled” on their website. Last thing I read about those games is that they’re fixing licensing issues in the EU. Since then, dead silence.
Very well made and informative video. Looking forward to what SFG and you discuss. I feel like lately there have been a lot of posts on FB etc where people are concerned about SFG so I think clearing the air some things could be helpful for them
100% agreed. Will let you guys know!
All of you singing SFG"s praises for swooping in and scooping in all the current product to ship, we'll see how you feel in 6 months from now.
Failing to lay off redundant employees until it was too late helped in the downfall of Mythic.
It seems like alot of companies who do bored games are getting hammered and of course the ones who use KS do big time and the KS backers are the ones getting kicked. I am no longer backing anything outside of STLs. I have several big games on the way that could do me a life time.
Is CMON pronounced like C'mon or See-mon? I've heard both and much prefer C'mon lol
It's pronounced $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$CMON$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
I would love to know this as well lol
Originally everyone, including them said see-mon. There was a concerted effort on their part (around the time Eric Lang was with them) for a while to ensure all of them said "c'mon". Since then they've I think become a bit looser.
I hope BLG uses some of the money to finally send me my CONTRA - THE BOARDGAME. So sad. 😭
I'm newerish to crowdfunding. I really have appreciated all your hard work on your videos. You've really helped me navigate this area.
First of all welcome to this part of the hobby - there are some GREAT and UNIQUE games here that are awesome :) It's important to not lose sight of that I think.
*Very* glad I've been of some help to you! Makes all the effort worth it :)
I'm quite active in SFG discord which is open for everyone and have noticed that, while their support is quite slow, they actually deliver; even allowed refunds after campaign ended. Not like Flyos which aren't allowing refunds for Werewolf The Apocalypse: Retaliation excusing themselves with KS rules and have had a ton of problems with their Vampire The Masquerade: Chapters.
This was going to be the main focus of the video. That paying more for a product often leads to a much better experience and we see it quite often across industries. If you're all about getting the absolute best bang for your buck you'll usually end up with some sort of issue/snag that doesn't go well.
I would not say Flyos had a Ton of problems on Vampire... I have backed trudvang, street masters, monsterpocalypse, darkest dungeon, hel, namiji and orcquest warpath... All these campaigns had a ton of problems. Vampire had basically the amount of issues you should expect from a first Kickstarter, so much better than the aforementioned ones
@@eKaiju I guess it's kind of unfair comparing Flyos with Mythic, but even for a new company it was awful. Lying to backers (which seems pretty common nowadays), delaying fulfillment supposedly to deliver a decent quality product, having the amount of erratas they are still finding, the metal dice misprint, not to mention Rest of the World backers which seems to have been forgotten.
Ok and the update for Werewolf is that they overpriced the shipping and offering no refunds plus removing people who criticize the project is giving some bad vibes. Not to mention that they are collecting shipping like one year before getting to that point, which means to me that they have just run out of money.
This is some of your best work..impressive
Thank you sir! :)
I am in Luck
Steamforged buying Street Masters is fantastic news! I would have loved to have backed the indegogo campaign but it just seemed way too risky . Hopefully they'll make the stuff from that campaign available to buy and maybe I can get my 2.0 upgrade for the first game that I never received.
I hope so too! :)
Used to be their number 1 fan. But the way they handled Guildballs death was an utter disgrace. They are not the company they once were and I wouldn’t touch them with someone else’s wallet let alone my own money.
Thank goodness SFG bought Street Masters. I loved the game and have Aftershock but I don't mind paying a bit to get my game. I wrote off this game as not getting Tide of the Dragon expansions. I'm sure that I will be seeing a pledge manager in the next few months, no problem from me. Just glad to hear something since the Sadler Brothers bailed before the pandemic.
King of average, not your average investigative journalist. Appreciate all the work you do!
Hah! Thank you sir :)
So we went from "very tight margins" to "they made 2mil profit". That's 10% profit of the revenue.
Yeah in their financial doc they state that their latest projects have had higher profit margins. So worse deal for backers cost wise, but better safety for company financially. Pros and cons I suppose.
Thanks for your research and the video! Small note: I think SFG is based in UK and that is not EU (anymore…).
haha old habit to say EU, my mistake! :D
So sounds like Steamforged is hoping to make more profit on future campaigns to fund old campaigns. But videos like this bringing it up means many customers will be scared to back which will mean less profits. Which then could cause steamforged not to be able to deliver old projects or the company goes under. That’s a slippery slope. Thanks for the great video
So with as much as people shit on Steamforged games, they are not as profitable as we would like to see for them to sustain.
I've avoided all SFG games. They seem to rely on the IP too much. They sell a bunch of games but the feedback seems to always be very mixed. You never see their games on top of anyone's lists.
Depends on the lists - Godtear made a few 'best releases this year' lists a year or two back in the skirmish game community, their D&D encounters tend to get well received, and people were raving over Guildball before they killed it off. Boardgame wise they have their fans, the main problem they have is similar to CMON - it's pretty obvious the games are designed as a single large game and then subdivided into base game and expansions afterwards, so anyone who didn't opt for the all in (or even worse, tries to pick up the game at retail) tends to be left with the distinct (and accurate) impression they've only got half a game. To be fair to SFG they're pretty good at keeping their own store and retail supplied, but you can imagine how someone is going to feel if they were to buy, for example, the Hunter's Arsenal expansion from MHW (£30 during KS, £54 retail) and then find out three of the six new hunters are useless to them because they only own one of the base game boxes, and post-KS it's £120 to pick up the one they're missing. Throw in that said base game boxes tend to include the bare minimum to play - usually just enough for four players to play a single campaign with no variations on said campaign - and they don't do themselves any favours.
I appreciate your passion and all that. However I think you could have waited a day or two more to get a response on their cash flows before the video went up. Journalism is great and everything but rushed journalism just seems kind of slanted.
Yeah that's a really great point and this was a unique situation that is different from my norm now. As you saw from previous videos of mine I've waited even over a week to make a video before. This video was...unexpected. I've had many of you guys ask for my opinion on SFG, especially before December 1st as the Iceborne PM closes then from them and of course they have a current campaign going as well.
Then they announced the Street Masters stuff and I thought this was a perfect time to really express my opinion (that paying a bit more for something often means a better experience and end result instead of chasing the cheapest deal with the least profit margin possible). I had no plans to even contact SFG at this time and it was going to be a rather straight forward video.
As you saw though, I did end up with some questions. Even then even before finishing reading the financial statement I postponed filming (I usually film over my work's lunch break but as you saw here I filmed at night) and shot them an email. Even after filming I continued to check my email until I went to bed at 2am. It was a bit after 3am when I got a response.
Afterward I kept conversing with them, pinned an update, hearted their response and will do a follow up video after I meet with them tomorrow morning.
I feel there is a difference between urgent news and rushed news. Urgent means you need to get the report out while rushed means you'll miss things and make mistakes. I feel this was made urgently because of the timing situation for many backers, but not rushed.
Of course that's just my opinion :)
Too many undelivered Kickstarters from SFG. Really too many.
"2mill profit" yet can't be bothered to actually finish the games and ship them, I guess they already have the money so
I see the same path as Mythic Games’. Too many undelivered kickstarters.
SFG can cram it with walnuts. I will never buy or back anything they do ever again simply due to the massive number of bold faced lies they told the backers of Dark Souls:the Board Game during the 5 or 6 years it took them to make and deliver our games.
Looks like another Mythic waiting to happen...
make board games, NOT companies
Too many games are leaving out the cardboard as well.
My opinion, all games should be made with no minis and then a seperate KS should be made for the minis. I think this would solve these issues and let board gamers actually play games and not just get stuck painting.
"I contacted SFG and said I was going to be making this video..." - Did you really say this and expect them to do as you ask???
Yes I did and they did. :)
Cut corners? How many people remember that Horizon Zero Dawn came with only 1 set of dice that had to be shared round the table for all players to germ up 🦠
I saw on their website they sold extra dice packs separately (sold out for years). Now I have to buy a full core box just to get an extra dice. Extremely poor game planning.