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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- In 2016-2017 one of the biggest video game IP's came to the world of Board Gaming, and considering it funded in a couple of minutes, it should have been up there with Gloomhaven... but it wasn't...
But it did start something...
boardgamegeek....
#boardgames #boardgame #darksouls
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Hey, what a great video! Very good flow, well written and shot, and great production quality!
Thanks, this means a lot!
In personally love it (vanilla rules) and do not mind the grind. I am always happy to go back to the same encounters to test my new abilities and feel the power (depending on the loot of course😂). Great game but very very long.
I love this! Really refreshing to read.
I can honestly say, if I was like 16 and this was one of the few games I owned, i'd probably play the living hell out of it.
I was also horribly disappointed by the game. We spent hours trying to play it legit, then had to add a million house rules to make it even remotely fun. The behavior cards were great, but everything else was implemented for mimicry purposes and not actual board game fun. A shame, but they made bank, so who's really right?
I hate having to houserule a game in general as it just doesn't sit right with me, but this is legit the game where you absolutely have to, in order to get value for the game that isn't linked to the components.
And yeah they did just fine, but as much as I love resident evil, I couldn't pull the trigger on them when they came out because of this.
You've already heard this but with a few expansions this game became a staple at our table.
I had to make my own house rules that changes about 80% of the game just to feel I didn't waste my money, I absolutely love Dark Souls, but the guys who designed this game clearly don't.
The base game can get repetitive quickly and make you lose interest, but keep in mind all the expansions. They definitely improve the variety of enemies and characters to play with. Especially when you include the phantoms expansion. Theres different tiles to purchase also. You need to play this game to full potential in order for a proper review. Darksouls did start out broken and repetitive but the new rules and expansion give it new life.
Its really good to see the redemption of the title.
Someone shouldn't have to buy multiple pricey expansions for a game to finally be good though.
Unfortunately most of the boardgames have expansions to expand the experience.
@@darkstranger777 Many board games have expansions; yes, but it's pretty universally considered in the hobby that a game shouldn't NEED expansions to be a good experience. That's just poor design.
@@ironwolf56 You are right, but that does not stop the fact that it is better now.
This game is one that needs the expansions more than anything, stuff like new worlds, summons, and enemies greatly, GREATLY help this game when I played it with said expansions
Yeah I get this, it's just a rough sell for someone who might have spotted this in a game store, spent a bunch of money on it, and then found out the base game isn't what its cracked up to be but can be made more enjoyable (potentially) by finding expansions and buying those as well..
There is a lot of expansion already for it
Some of the expansions are so hard to find now and cost so much, absolutely hate that fact
Also had no idea The Painted World of Ariamis and Tomb of the Giants weren't compatible with the original game, yikes
As taken from a user from Reddit "It is technically possible to play all of them together, but it'd be one hell of a slog, and the balance would probably be pretty skewed towards the end."
Mind you this is just what I was informed as I have no intentions of picking them up, so with some research and probably downloading/printing certain assets its probably doable, but I reckon SFG just want you to grab the new stuff and start from there.
As for the costs of the expansions, I haven't really looked, but I would say due to its age, it would be ridiculously expensive. You'd probably have to really love the IP to want to collect it all.
Give it another 5-6 years and they'll probably do another full campaign after learning from Elden Ring and having more games under their belt.
Another DS kickstarter will probably break 10m easily.
@@amdirt apart from the two new sets I'm missing four expansions right now, but the Four Kings one regularly goes for 300+ bucks, like come on 🤣
omfg thats insane.
You might see someone sell a whole set but 99% of the time, they ain't splitting :P
Found out about the DS boardgame through some people in one of my gaming groups, well after the kickstarter. Was curious because a lot of these friends like the soulsborne video games but I didnt know much about them aside from the music. And I already liked the Devil May Cry boardgame by Steamforged (which I later learned was designed by a subcontracted designer who wasn't involved in any other of their games, lol). We played a houseruled version, but still it was a long game. I liked it though.
Bought the base game and 4 expansions, played a few times more while tweaking houserules, and now have put a few hundred hours into Elden Ring while also 3/4 through painting the miniatures that I have for DS boardgame.
I certainly wouldn't defend all of their design decisions. I knew that I was getting into a game that plays best after modifying the rules as written.
That's pretty awesome. Would love to see the paint job on DS. The minis are gorg. DMC i saw in a store, but haven't gone in on anything else from SFG apart from Monster Hunter World which I haven't even come close to playing yet. Something about receiving 10+ boxes of things kinda overwhelms me at first.
I haven't tried the house rules nor intend to, but I've seen the praise they get from the community and that's pretty amazing that they exist, so kudos to the community for saving it!
@@amdirt I've posted a few to DarkSoulsTheBoardGame subreddit - tends to be miniatures every 10 posts or so. Also stumble on the painted minis all the time when looking for painting references!
Love the game, have almost all expansions including kickstarters except Vordt and Manus that ill pick up eventually.
If you start playing it with only the base game then youre going to get bored pretty fast. I started with Darkroot and Iron Keep expansion so i never felt that repeatability. If youre playing with standart rules then you definitely want to atleast increase the amount of souls youre getting per encounter.
Personally like many others i to was developing many house rules, almost from the get go. Many different ideas were tested to see what would fit better and with all these expansions i reached the point that i would call perfect.
In short lets say that the updated rules from Tomb of the Giants and Ariamis nailed it very good. You definitely want to mix new encounter cards with old enemies. If encounter is sometimes easier/harder then its accurate to the video games, theyre not fully balanced either right?
can't believe how disappointing this board game was
kingdom death monster is the true dark souls board game form
100%
KDM is brilliant. Massive fan, and looking forward to heading down there now I received Gamblers and other bits and pieces for it.
as a naked no hit level 1 enjoyer i approve of this game
I was an OG backer on this game and the kickstarter was probably the worst it could have been while still eventually getting everyone the game. It took nearly two years for me to get my copy. I feel like this is a great breakdown of what went wrong with the gameplay. It essentially boils the concepts of what made the video game mechanics great, into board game rules. But unlike the video game where if you're skilled enough, you can beat the whole game naked and bare handed.. the boardgame relies on the dice to gauge your success. Imagine if in the video game every time you dodge rolled, even if you timed it correctly, there was a 40% chance you got hit anyway. Same with striking an enemy for damage. Its pretty rough.
The comparison to the video game and being able to skill the crap out of it vs the boardgame where you can get hit anyway via a dice roll is a good take. I think you just have to detach from the combat similarities from the game and go into it with a different approach but then that defeats the purpose of getting this because you love the combat so much in DS.
I think you nailed it.
"Imagine in the video game every time you dodge rolled, even if you timed it correctly, the was a 40% chance you got hit anyway."
This what happens in the video game too, except the 40% chance is not for whether the damage is applied or not, but rather on the timing of the dodge. The board game simulates a player who's new to the game and still learns the timing of the attacks. With 3 dodge dice the slower attacks are very unlikely to hit you, and with 4 dice or more you become a dodge god. You can still get hit here and there, but overall you become a "skilled player" by that point. It even approaches the "broken" territory with how good it becomes.
The dodge mechanic has many issues, but using dice is not one of them.
Not sure why this popped up in my recommends so late, but it did, so here's my take. No, I didn't back DS, I bought by copy used, then acquired everything for the original sets, including all the KS-exclusive bosses (luckily got them for a very cheap price off a person on BGG). To date I've only played this RAW, 145 times. I never saw or felt the need for house rules.
You said in your video that you were doing the same encounter for the fourth time. To me that sounds as either being way too cautious and grinding for gear and stats that aren't necessary or you were just incredibly unlucky with your item draws. This game has never been about grind and gearing yourself to the gills for me, it's been just get enough to see you defeat the boss, even if it means taking a boss down with something like Black Firebombs (solo run I reference below that was my weapon for beating both mini and main boss, hell, I was tempted to try and beat the mega boss with it just for the memes :D ). Black Firebombs isn't a great weapon, it's not even a good weapon but it was all I needed so what would've been the point to grind? It got the job done.
I recently pulled the game back out again for two runs (and have more planned). In the solo hero run I cleared all four encounters (of which there are 31 different for each level if you have all expansions, so there is variety to the enemies you face from run to run), reset and ran them again, then took on the mini boss. Same deal for the main boss. Both of those cases, I could've reset four more times and earned 32 extra souls, so basically drawn 32 more cards, prior to mini boss, then prior to main boss. Instead I went for the boss and defeated the boss, earning only four souls. But I beat the boss so I was equipped enough to do it, plus had the luck and skill to pull it off. And each session only took about 60-75 min, that's solid enough playtime in my book, doesn't overstay its welcome.
My second run was running two characters solo. This time I played through the encounters three times, still clocking in at 75 min per session. Midway through the run I was even able to switch one of the heroes from a dodge build to more of a tank build while also swapping my weapon loadout, something I could never do in Bloodborne Board Game (which I backed All-In on KS) since in that game you're stuck with whatever weapon you start with. Bloodborne actively encourages the player from getting into combat, I always refer to it as an "action economy puzzle" since the timer is far more strict and not fighting enemies seems contradictory to the whole idea of being a Hunter (and BB in general). But in it enemies are a distraction from completing the main goal. And because the tiles in BB are so small, boss fights lack all the maneuvering and positioning you get in DS, boiling down to standing next to the boss and spamming R1 until one of you drops.
As one of the early adopters who wrote the homebrew rules and reviewed every expansion, the core set fundamentally misunderstands why we love Souls games. The giant miniatures and boss AI are super fun, and everything else was just put in there because it was on a whiteboard of "Recognizable franchise elements". The real killer, though, was the terrible icons, card layout, and color scheme that meant new players just couldn't figure out what these half-sized cards should do. That's something that no homebrew can fix.
Great video! I bet you've played (and adored) Oathsworn by now. As a 'Haven-head, I'd love to hear your thoughts. The theme doesn't speak to me, but is it really the new 'gold-standard' for co-op fantasy campaign games?
All the best!
I haven't played Oathsworn but I do have it. I have no idea if we'll get around to playing it, because I don't want to start it and for it to just sit there and not get finished. Too many other things going on... but one day.... one day...
I enjoyed painting the minis just cause I like doing that. When I wanna play it I’ll just play it on table top simulator so I don’t have to spend 30 minutes setting it up. But definitely a flawed game. Hopefully, the new rule updates coming out next year will at least balance it out more.
Yeah the minis are nice, and are just begging for some good ol paint.
The TTS comment makes sense, especially if it has scripting that just makes it so you can bang out a session nice and easy.
I wasn’t there for the original dark souls ks , so I won’t really comment. However I do have the newly revised sunless city core game and I am enjoying it. It’s not perfect but if one is looking for a lite campaign game which I know i sounds like an oxymoron, I think sunless city fits the bill .
Played DS a bunch with and without variant rule sets. I love the IP so I can see past some of the issues with gameplay. You should give a variant rule set a try - I think you'd like it. The Hollowed rules are really good and fix the randomness of items too. I will definitely play it again as I have both of the new sets with the new rules, which I have not tried yet. But they look less grindy for sure. The shortcut addition is a big plus.
If you dissed SFG for this permanently, you are making a mistake. They have figured out how to make good games. The Resident evil series is excellent - I have all three and they are all super fun. Bardsung is also excellent and is one of the few games that delivered early for me on KS - this was right in the middle of Covid when all the game companies raised shipping prices and were a year or more delayed. I skipped Monster Hunter because I had pledged Primal which was at the same time...plus I am an all in KDM backer and collector so didn't need another monster hunter game. I do have Elden Ring coming althrough that one got a decently long delay just recently. I would have backed Euthia too, but just had too many other things backing when it was going on. I may pick this up eventually.
Oh i don't doubt the game has been fixed with the variants and various expansions that have come out. This was more a look back to the campaign and what I received, and my response to playing it as it was.
I'm not dissing SFG permanently as they have shown they are making quality games that people are investing time and money into. I even played MHW and have really enjoyed my plays of that.
I also have Elden Ring coming which I'm excited for, and I have the first print run of Euthia before SFG did the reprint.
But yeah if I get it back to the table, I'll look at introducing the variants. There were definitely things i liked.
I backed the game also. And honestly, I love the core set rules. I don't think it needed to be fixed. It was a near perfect adaption of the video game into board game. The issue people have with grinding is one that exists in video games as well. It's not that it doesn't translate over well, it's that it translates over too well. The vast majority of people dislike JRPGs for example, and a reason for that is usually the grind involved in them. Now board gamers get to experience the grind, and surprise! Most people don't like it.
I do agree Steamforged Games completely dropped the ball on this though, at every stage. I haven't bought from them again and I don't think I ever will. They lost my trust and as someone that isn't buying more from them, they are unlikely to be able to win it back.
Interesting point about the way its translated a little too well.. I think you nailed that!
I think SFG has picked the ball back up since, but yeah there's some damage that would have occurred through the handling of DS leading to people in the same position, but they've probably also accumulated a lot of newer fans from the more recent things they've put out.
DarkSouls definitely needs a little fixing to play as less of a slog. I love DSBG and Steamforged . I do know a lot of people were disappointed in the way the Kickstarter was handled, luckily for me that's how I got my 3rd wave Kickstarter box 😆
Monster hunter world has been a delight so far so SFG has been hard at work since the og Dsbg
I was also disappointed by DS the board Game. More recently Ive been playing Bloodborne the board game and it manages to not only capture the spirit of that game but translates that experience into a fantastic set of mechanics which are both challenging and fun too play….
I'm currently upgrading my Dark Souls Board Game by not only painting the miniatures (finally), but also creation outer walls, as well as homemade narrow paths using D&D Terrain built tricks, as well as re-creating the battle mats too, along with add one for it as well XD
I just need more miniatures, even if I buy all the expansions and the latest packs, I still need to buy more, not only to add more encounters and get the class cards (like four of each), but also to create summon players too (painting the miniatures black giving them a spirit aura) for added fun too XD
So by my guess, gettings the Main and Class Expansion means I gotta spent roughly $650 to get three extras of both sets 🤣
But that's just me, getting Tomb of the Giants and the Painted World might cost me $230 or so, but hey, it's my money I gotta save up for anyways lol 🤣
Dammmnn what a project! But it sounds incredible.
You have to show it all, even the journey to completion it would be insane!
I've backed a few steamforged games before and i decided i will never back one of their projects again. I backed dark souls, Resident evil 2, and Horizon. All of them where horibble kickstarter experiences with large delays and multi-wave shipping. Gameplay wise I do not like Darks souls extreme reliance on gear stats and dice RNG, it made any sort of skill or stratagy feel pointless, which is the opposite of the game experience. I feel like the bloodborne game handled the "soulslike" in board game form much better. Horizon was mind numbingly boring and felt extremely easy. Resident Evil 2 was actually pretty good and the rules and gameplay did a good job making it feel like the game, but the components are some of the worst I have ever seen and it has the worst map tiles i have ever played on. Someone made amazing printable maps that look like the game maps which made the experience way better.
Your feelings are more of the typical responses I have seen floating around the internet, and I totally understand where you're coming from.
Its such a hard thing to accept because of the amazing list of IPs the publisher has been able to obtain, and it kinda kills me inside knowing that these IPs have been wasted to an extent with mediocre releases.
But apparently the more recent releases have been shone in a more positive light, and obviously with every release they are making bank, so there's still a market out there for it, and maybe its starting to turn the other way.
Won't know for sure until I bust open Monster Hunter World.
I would say if you rely on luck, you're going to lose more than a player who plays strategically/tactically. My personal win-loss after 145 plays is 144 wins, 1 loss, that's not down to luck. There are setups where you can beat a boss, even a mega boss with starting items because if the boss can never hit you, how can you lose? Not all mega bosses mind you, but some like Gaping Dragon and Black Dragon Kalameet can get behaviour draws where they literally can't hit you if you use skill to position yourself correctly.
Being a fan of Soulsborne I backed Bloodborne All-In but if anything that has less mitigable RNG than Dark Souls, I've lost runs because the tiles which are randomized and you have zero ability to manipulate them, came out in the wrong order. Boss fights in BB are also the worst part of the game rather than being the best part. Both share the RNG of upgrades but in DS you get to see far more upgrade options through a run, helping mitigate the randomness (typically you see 30+ treasure draws vs maybe 15 upgrades in BB). And since DS doesn't have a strict timer, IF you want to grind for souls and draw more treasures, you can draw the entire treasure deck if you want, eliminate all RNG, can't do that in BB. Personally I don't grind, last run I left 64 souls unclaimed because I went ahead to take on the mini boss and then main boss when I could've reset the encounters and grinded for souls, but object of the game is to beat the bosses, not grind and I beat the bosses so why waste time?
The new core boxes are 100% backwards compatible. Idk why you said they weren't. Also the rule changes help the game tremendously. But buying a new core set to "fix" the game is painful. Steamforged deserves some credit for listening to fan feedback.........
What do you mean compatible? There are no encounter cards for enemies in the new core sets to be used with the old encounter cards for enemies from the OG sets. There isn't even a chart of "swap this enemy for that" for using new enemies in old encounters. In order to play with new core set enemies, you have to use new encounters, that's not backwards compatible.
All the rules they made to the encounters themselves (recover more stamina, free move on each characters' turn, one extra health before you die, roll block + dodge at once instead of choosing) only serve to make an already ridiculously easy game even easier, not to mention the free movement means no enemy with movement of one and range-0 can ever hit the heroes unless they start in an adjacent node, nullifying Hollow Soldiers, Large Hollow Soldiers and Stone Knights completely, making them pointless inclusions (again going against backwards compatability). What's up with gaining souls from not destroying barrels?
I'm not even coming into this a KS backing fanboy, I bought my base game as a used copy. And I all my 145 plays have been using RAW rules only. Splitting a runthrough into three parts, mini boss, main boss and mega boss, you get a part done in 60-75 min with a proper climax of a boss fight and saving between the parts is easy since you have to do a new setup after mini and main boss fights anyways.
@@DamtheMan50 So the old enemies + the new encounter card system means you have to print updated ones from the publisher. I don't think they updated all of them. You can house rule rooms to be the new system and some rooms be the old system and it's fine in my opinion. As for other changes in the new version you can choose what you want to implement if you think it is too easy or hard. But I do think it's more fair to say it is like 80% compatible.
@@JTtopcat If I have to houserule something, then it clearly isn't compatible out of the box. And while old enemies plus new encounters is a download option, they won't match official quality, making mix and match limited. However for me backwards compatible means using new enemies with old encounters and SFG did nothing to address this.
@@DamtheMan50 You did 145 plays. Of course it is gonna be easier for you. Also you are wanting the game to be forward compatible if you want the new enemies to have old encounter cards.
New format rules are worth a go.
I've been told. I'm considering a follow-up.
Had a similar experience with the Dark Souls Tabletop Roleplaying Game, also by Steamforged. Broken rules, strange layout, elements that felt like they were taken right out of the game without much thought. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the game, and it had some interesting concepts that should be more fleshed out!
To be honest didn't even realise SFG did an RPG. Doesn't surprise me its energy matched the board game buuuut.. the fact you enjoyed it speaks volumes.
I'm sure people also enjoyed the board game.. I guess it just fell 'meh' with us.
Tbh finding the game to be decent to good, just managed to collect all expansions! What I do not like tho, same with the new elden ring board game, is the lack of fan favorite figurines. Seeing more and more development that comes off as cash grabby.
Gotta make that cash somehow :P the "all in" button needs more loving.
It still is a quickie game for me...quick setup, less tokens than some dungeon crawlers out there,...and house rules that makes the game less taxing than it is...and having a community of folks that created new items , that expanded my playing enjoyment.
One thing to learn is...don't get played by the game, ...play the game you want to enjoy them in. Solo and Co-op, so nothing to risk "un-friending" some long time hobby friends due to some crap rules with debates, arguments and multiple bible rulebook flipping and preaching for hours...before flipping over the table.
Just play it how you want it. In the case...DS, but...for other games...that is another scene. lol. + what is not like painting them, eventhough minis aren't super detailed like KDM, but...hold enough artistic ( for some), that we can proxy on other DnD games.
Totally see where you're coming from. There will be people out there who will buy a game hoping when its played rules as written will give them enjoyment without the need of house-ruling.
Ultimately people can play however they want, its their game, there's no rules police to enforce everyone and make sure they're playing correctly, especially in co-op games. I see people online all the time just making rules up as they go because its more fun for them and being their copy of the game and their group its their prerogative.
But there are groups (like mine) who hate the idea of house-ruling because our version of fun is; solving the puzzle of the game as its written. If we have to adjust it to fix something we question why are we playing it then, when there are many games that don't have this issue. Different strokes for different folks and there is no incorrect way, just the rules of the table..
I have the complete collection and honestly it wasn't worth it lol
Would you ever sell it? Is there a market for the first edition?
There is something that feels good when you own a complete collection though
Yeah I sold mine for a $400 profit.
Phwoar... nice return there.
I have the full set as well.
The game sucks, SFG sucks, but some of the figures are neat. I use them for Dungeon Universalis. But will NEVER buy anything from SFG again. Friggin liars.