Cutting Corners | Another Cyclist Struck!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2024
- I got asked to comment on this collision between a BMW driver, cutting the corner and a cyclist. Thankfully, the cyclist didn't suffer any long-term serious injuries.
Credit for the clip goes to @HiJustRide on X.
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If the cyclist is further left, they still get hit. The BMW driver was just being reckless
How unusual for a BMW driver. *Not*
Got to agree, it looks like they were entirely on the wrong side of the centreline. Inexcusable with any other traffic at the junction.
He would still have been hit but his injuries would have been less severe.
It doesn't matter if the BMW could easily see the cyclist, they had no intention of slowing down to take the turn properly. They saw the other vehicles clearing the junction and decided they could turn without doing it properly. Even if the cyclist had been an arms length from the centre line, they would still have been hit.
It looks to me like the BMW driver was looking at the corner of the car that was turning left and aiming to miss it, not looking at what was ahead of them.
100% agree, and if he couldn't see a bright blue top, then there was no chance.
Corner cutting is lazy driving, pure and simple. I drive an 18t rigid lorry at work that's slightly larger than a double-decker bus, and i rarely have to cut corners. It's not just the corner cutting but also the speed that so many drivers carry as they make the turn that poses a danger.
And if a lorry does have to cut a corner generally the other road users will have a bit of warning before it happens
Absolutely agree with it all about it being lazy, here where I live most road junctions off the main road are blind because property boundaries come up to the edge of the road. Yet the locals will cut the corner so badly they are actually driving on the wrong side of the road on approach from some metres. You really have to be careful not to meet one of them as you approach the junction. Of course, that goes hand in hand with motorcycles and motorcycle combinations being driven on the wrong side of a main road (4 lane hi-way).
100% agree, class 2 daily driver here too. I will only cut a corner if I have to avoid parked cars or have to get into small estates etc but when I do have to cut a corner I’m doing it at crawling pace and have my eyes everywhere
To add context I probably cut at most 3 corners a month
The driver was "legally" to blame?
100% at fault from any perspective, more like.
lol. It was a good video. But I agree. That wording could have been better.
Ashley gets picked on whatever he does!
Legally to blame AND 100% at fault - but your comment completely ignores the point of this video (and, unfortunately, reflects the attitude of far too many people on the roads).
Even if you are legally blameless AND 100% faultless with your own actions, there will STILL often be things that you can do, or could have done differently, to help reduce the effect of other people's mistakes/ poor actions.
@@obscureinception8302 but then you won't be blameless will you
In this instance yes, there's definitely nothing the cyclist could have done. But I think, in general, the tips Ashley gave could keep cyclists safe in similar situations. Although, being more to the left on this one could've been more of a risk of the cyclist going under the wheels.
The whole point of this analysis flew over your head.
If you can do anything to minimise the chances of being involved in an accident, or minimise the potential for harm if a collision is unavoidable, then it's well within your interests to do so.
The other party being 100% to blame is scant comfort if you're lying in a hospital bed.
Corner cutting when turning right is so common, it can actually catch following drivers by surprise when you carry out the turn correctly. Occasionally even generating an angry reaction. A bit like going properly around a mini roundabout.
Ah you spotted peoples confusion when you do a mini roundabout correctly too.
@@Nodster Indeed yes and even signalling a right turn on the approach to a mini roundabout and maintaining that signal, others still get confused. The key is to take it relatively slowly to be able to react, as well as to be able to steer around the mini roundabout of course.
I had someone beep me for going around a mini-roundabout, as they tried to overtake me by going the other side of the roundel. As a reprimand, I fastidiously stuck to the 20mph limit all the way up the hill. I also spent a great deal of time waiting patiently for a safe opportunity to pass a slow cyclist! (coming out of Sussex Place and going up Widcombe Hill in Bath).
Ive had several occasions when I’ve turned into the side street and the following driver has opted to cut the corner and narrowly missed t- boning me. Ironically I every time I received a heap of abuse and prolonged use of the horn.
@@TheGiff7 I remember one time many years ago, shortly after passing my test, I made a right turn correctly without cutting the corner (as I still do) and some young chap in a Citroen Dyane overtook me by cutting the corner whilst we were both actually making the right turn! And being a Citroen with soft suspension, it leaned quite dramatically into the corner during that crazy overtake. I was in total disbelief.
Shout out to Liz for spending her life listening to Ashley go on about driving all the time lol
Must drive her barmy 😂
Well done Liz
Proud of you Liz keep up the hard work
Yeah but its like a free driving lesson every time she's in the car with him.
@@colinjava8447 She should set up her own channel to show the level of chaos Ashley lives in when he's not behaving for camera
So many drivers cut corners like this, it’s so dangerous.
And generally driving too fast for the corner.
The cyclist didn’t sit down, he just came off the pedals and stood on the road.
No matter where he stood, he would have been wiped out.
Poor guy had no chance.
I was taught 50 years ago to imagine a policeman standing at that central point , it works
and 50 years later, policemen are mostly imaginary
My instructor told me to think of it as a brick wall, that stuck with me.
That probably worked 50 years ago, but when was the last time you saw police on foot or in a car for that matter?
@@shm5547I was thinking the same thought
Ha ha me too....except for me it was 30 years ago...so old (original) methods are still valid
Wow just wow. Cutting corners can cause a lot of accidents and luckilly the cyclist wasn't seriously injured. Roads are getting worse and worse everyday!
It seems to be getting more and more commonplace.
Have been very close to being wiped out myself on several occasions, in a car, not on a bike.
@@stevedavis770as a padestrian perspective I have had a few near misses!
It seems to me that since COVID, there is a lot more aggression and anger in society generally. A lot of social media in my opinion appears to be intentionally fuelling this anger towards the "other" and making it ok within specific echo chambers on social media to dehumanise the "other". Fascism was all about "looking after our own" by blaming everything wrong real or invented, with society on someone else.
@@stevedavis770I think it just seems that way because more people have cameras.
@@LordSandwichII I disagree, I've noticed significantly worse levels of driving over the last couple of years compared to before, tailgating, dangerous overtakes, ridiculous parking corner cutting, lack of indication, poor lane discipline etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is new - these things have always happened, but it used to be maybe 1/10 drivers. These days it's more like 8/10.
I'm always pleasantly surprised when I don't get tailgated for sticking to 20/30 limits, people actually indicate off roundabouts, or I come to a T junction and I can actually see both ways because there isn't a car or van parked on the pavement blocked all visibility.
As a car driver, I make every effort to not cut corners when turning right. And ever since seeing that incident on another channel some time ago, whenever I make a right turn, that incident goes through my mind and the potential of what can happen if you cut corners.
People who cut corners like this scare me and I am in a metal box, I can't begin to imagine what ran through the cyclist head at that moment.
There is side road round the back of where I live that is relatively quiet so the likelihood of incidents like this are quite slim but that does not stop my family cutting the corner of that road worse than what was done here and when I give a remark like "don't want to take that turn correctly no?" it is usually greeted with some remark like "no not today" or "just saving time"
I hate to think how much worse they are when I am not in the car "judging them" (as they put it)
The roads around me are used by a lot of driving schools as part of the initial first few lessons because of how quiet they are but also the good mix of wider junctions and closer passing cars as well as some roads requiring the use of passing places because of parked cars on both sides.
But I have seen some of the horror on new learners faces when someone takes a corner badly on them, If a learner stands little chance of being seen by an idiot then around here cyclists stand no chance I dare say but thankfully it's not a route the majority will take other than those that live local to the roads given the two major roads at the top and bottom of this area.
I can avoid cutting corners in MY daily driver. BMW boy has no excuse.
@@kenbrown2808 shhhh dont be telling people this while you drive a BMW as you will give the rest of them a bad reputation ROFL
Also how much was the indicator add on pack?
sorry I could not resist lol
@@Nodstermy daily driver is NOT a BMW. which is the point. if mine can make that without cutting the corner, surely the pinnacle of germish engineering can.
also, I understand you pay a 19.95 per month subscription.
I was taught not to turn until the car is in the correct position so that you can enter the correct lane. I don't understand why cutting corners is so prevalent given that it is a really basic driving skill that is taught really early in lessons.
Too many racing games where the racing line is the quickest
You see them on dash cam compilations -driving- racing along country lanes, drifting across the white line and then having to take avoiding action because someone is coming the opposite direction as if it is the other persons fault 🤦♂️
Lazy, impatient drivers
@@smilerbobCutting corners is fine if you can see far enough ahead.
The reason for corner cutting is simple laziness. Same story negotiating roundabouts. Pure laziness, coupled with zero interest in driving safely.
I'm not convinced this is anything other than four things
1) laziness
2) fear of hitting the kerb
3) taking the "racing line" because that's what "good" drivers do
4) doing what everyone else does
Plus trying to beat any cars coming from the opposite direction and get turned into that road
I think you can add complacency, they've done it a million times before and nothings happened, but on the 1,000,001st time it will go wrong.
Maybe just in too much of a hurry because thats when accidents happen@@colinjava8447
being a bmw driver.
I think many drivers are under the impression they have to cut a right hand corner because "there isn't room". Thing is, if you slow right down, select a lower gear (if driving a manual) and "square your turn" (a phrase I used in the previous video), you might be surprised that in most cases in an average sized UK car, you can indeed make that right turn without cutting the corner. "But what if there are badly parked cars as soon as you turn?" Then yes you may legitimately have to cut the corner under those circumstances to clear parked cars but the trick is to do so at a slow speed and only turn in when you can see down the new road and that others coming out of the road can see you, similar to Ashley's comments re looking through the side window. Bear in mind also that there may be parked cars on the right hand side of the road you are turning into. Which means anyone approaching the junction you are turning into might have no choice but to straddle the centre of the road.
Not one of them. Don't cut corners nomatter what I drive or ride, even if nobody about. Another reason people will do it is because of oncomming traffic which applies to narrow slow vehicles like bicycles aswell as cars.
@@DemiGod.. There are a couple of roads (at most) that I know where you are left with no choice but to "cut the corner" as it were as the parked cars are parked that close to the junction on both sides that you have to middle line it but as @ibs5080 says the key is to take them slowly and to check and keep checking.
The roads I refer to are small roads to begin with and when there is parked cars either side your not getting more than one car down it anyway and ironically it is easier to turn right into them as you have a much clearer view of what is coming up than the practically no view you have turning left into them.
I have no idea why people feel the need to park on top of the junction on these couple of roads but they do outside of sheer ignorance I guess.
There there is the other scenario which is getting much more common even though against the Highway Code is vehicles parked opposite a T junction. This makes it impossible to do anything other than cut a corner either turning into or out of the side road. Why are so many people breaking the rules and making driving increasingly more dangerous for all of us? Because they know they will get away with it!
The nice thing about this approach is that, even when it is legitimately too tight to not cut (narrow country lanes and the like) then you're going slow enough and making observations to a degree that you can do it safely. In that case you're not going to be surprised by any road used who's having to wait in the middle.
In other words, you have to work harder as a driver instead of being lazy. Innumerable times I have to stop when I am legally and properly positioned, because the drivers on my estate can't be arsed to drive correctly and as a result cut corners that they do not have to cut, and should not cut.
This happened to me when cycling about 10 years ago. I was waiting to turn right at a T junction and a car cut the corner and hit me head on. Just like this driver, the driver saw me at the last second and stopped quickly, so although I was thrown backwards and the front of my bike went under the car, my injuries were fairly superficial. It's pretty scary, as I saw the car long before the driver saw me and I clearly remember, as the car headed straight towards me, thinking this is going to hurt!
I can only imagine the sheer panic you had as there is literally nothing you can do at that point....
If I was cycling I would of stopped behind the private hire.
@@jamesattwood8480I don't see what that would achieve - at some point you need to come forward and will be vulnerable to someone who is not looking where they are going. The cyclist would have been clearly visible for several seconds if they'd bothered to look.
so basically should not be on the road in your opinion @@jamesattwood8480
@@MrFuckwit999I have to agree with James.... I would have waited for the BMW to move off and then took a more central position at the white line.
I would be more clearly seen to traffic approaching from either my right or left as well as holding primary position to traffic behind me too.
Also another thing. I ALWAYS have a BRIGHT front flashing light day and night plus another powerful main headlight for night time. And two very good flashing red lights behind on my rack. And another on the back of my helmet.
But just on the front flashing light right now. Even if I was behind that BMW, you would still see my light on camera illuminating any reflective surfaces and especially road signs.
Most bikes have either no or sh1t poor lights. I always put my safety first by being very visible amongst traffic. Where I live there is mostly either none or poor cycling infrastructure and I generally prefer to ride on the road in traffic instead of on poor or disjointed cycling lanes even if available. Visibility is paramount.
Liz: "What was that car doing?"
Totally agree, what on earth was a BMW doing using its indicators. Confused everyone.
One of the first lessons where I was turning right my instructor said to me something like “it’s good to see you looking out the side window when you’re turning” and he commented how I just did that without him ever having to tell me to. I was a bit mystified when he said this, it just seemed like common sense and I asked him “do some people not do that then? Where the heck are they looking when they turn?”
Irrespective of me driving or riding, I always have the mindset of there’s only so many corners you can cut before bang, you’ve gone into somebody or somebody’s gone into you
There’s no excuse for cutting the corner like that. It’s lazy driving and fact of the matter is, they just couldn’t be bothered to change gear/adjust speed too much.
People who do that don’t seem to care if there’s someone waiting to turn right or not either, and even if they don’t crash, they come close to a collision.
Yet again, we see someone who is fortunate they didn’t lose their life due to the sheer complacency of someone in “control” of a ton of fast moving metal, glass and plastic.
I love it when you meet a corner cutter while approaching a junction to exit right, AND THEY GIVE YOU THE DIRTY LOOK FOR GETTING IN THE WAY!!! 😂
It's because they have an attitude problem!
Lazy driving costs lives, limb and body work. Lots of us cut corners with our observations too, how properly are people checking the pavements before they use a junction and relying on pedestrians to fix bad driving?
Yes! Just like the motto from the 1990's computer game, Lemmings. Careless Clicking Costs Lives.
Great demonstration Ashley. I'm grateful my Dad taught me properly - don't start the turn in until the centre line of the road you're turning into is level with the drivers seat and look into the road before proceeding. These incidents of corner cutting are all too common and while I have learned to be a calmer driver since watching Ashley's channels, this can still trigger my rage.
As to your comments on the cyclist have you ever ridden a bike that is correctly adjusted for touring with clipless pedals? He drops down because that is how you get your feet on the floor with the seat that high in the position he is as he approaches the junction his foot won’t touch the floor. He also flicks his foot to the left as he is going past the back car which tells you he is disengaging from a clipless pedal and needs the space to do that. I think every regular cyclist looking at that will be thinking “that is exactly where he should be, that is exactly where I would have been”.
There is one thing that you missed is that if you are not looking directly at the road you are turning into you will miss any pedestrians crossing the junction, who have priority over you. There will be a lot of licences shredded before drivers actually learn to look where they are going rather than at the other cars.
"There will be a lot of licences shredded" - the thing is you have to do something especially egregious to have your licence taken away, unfortunately even killing/injuring people doesn't cut it sometimes, especially if it was just an "accident" like this video would no doubt be categorised as :(
As a cyclist. I find this hugely ‘food for thought’.
Great analysis
FYI: I commute 30km to work every day and see such a cornering at least once per two days. And imagine when it is done by a big truck or bus...
That's a shocking cut corner it really is. So many people do it though it's crazy.
Thank you. I have learnt as a cyclist and a motorist from that video. Really useful.
Good to hear. Aot of commenters seem to think that nothing can be learnt.
What irks me is that there are people elsewhere online who have been blaming the cyclist, but you know if the car in front had been hit, they wouldn’t be defending the car that cut the corner
the cyclist was way clear of the left turning car to be seen if the cyclist was closer to the left turning car on the same road he would been seen less by the right turning car.tottaly the driver fault
Exactly. Don’t know why Ashley is not making this point stronger.
I could see an argument that you'd be less likely to be hit by a corner cutter, but not by a car going that fast on that line.
Another point to consider is if any other those drivers overtook the cyclist & how close to the junction.
This scares me as moped rider, there’s a particularly lethal junction near my house where people are often going far too fast and cut the corner off. I’ve begun to position a bit farther to the left now when turning right. I also make sure that I slow down to an appropriate speed to make a right turn into a side road, much to the annoyance of the drivers behind.
One phrase my driving instructor used to say to me regarding junctions was...
"In over one, out over two": meaning the white lines on the road.
This forces you to look through the side window and not just out the front!
I am a lifelong cyclist and your videos have taught me so much about the perspective of the drivers involved in these situations. Also they have helped me out in avoiding dangerous situations like these great work more cyclists and drivers need to watch your content keep up the great work
That wasn’t just any corner cutting, that was going for the fastest lap time! Absolutely shocking from the driver. I would like to hope lesson learned but I have a feeling complacency will creep back in over time and they will be back to cutting corners as that was “just a one off”
I understand what you say about the cyclist position as most corner cutting isn’t as bad as what we have seen but it also gives more room for larger vehicles or those that are towing 👍
Hi there 👋
@@thomaselliot2257 Good evening Thomas 👋
As a road safety advocate, don't you think you should be looking at the road, not your passenger? Just saying
Corner cutting is a pet peave of mine, not just on junctions, but on normal roads as well and i've noticed a common theme, they are all pointing their vehical where they want to go rather than the road layout they should follow. This is common on roundabouts where those in lane 1 want to go straight but think it's ok to not go round but straightline partly into lane 2 just to exit in lane 1 again. The same can be said on twisty single lane roads, the amount of times i've had near misses with people coming onto my side of the road just to cut some of the corner and straightline as much as possible is obsurd.
*Yes there is an advance skill called offsiding, but when there is heavy traffic and others on the road surely it can't be that hard to stay in lane?
Just added a subscription. As a Bikeability instructor, I spend a lot of time standing on street corners, usually with a group of children. In that time, 16 years and counting, I have noticed that a correct right turn into a junction has become rare enough to attract attention. I have seen driving instructors do it wrongly, though they make their pupils do it correctly, even on one occasion a police car which did it to me as I was approaching the junction to turn right out of it. I have many times, when doing the same manouevre, had someone turn in on me and wave me out of the way. I have been sworn at simply for being there, in front of children. The cyclist in the clip was certainly closer to the centre line than I would ever advise, but frankly the car would have hit him if he'd been better positioned. Of all the things which I advise my pupils about, this inability on the part of so many drivers to carry out a simple turn is right at the top of the list. I have been a truck and bus driver as well as a cyclist ,motorcyclist and car driver for a total of 57 years. Thank you for a very balanced and thoughtful series of videos.
A bit off-topic, but one thing I was taught when waiting to turn right is to keep your steering straight until it is safe to go. It means putting more effort into the manoeuvre, but if you are hit from behind, you have much less chance of being fired into the oncoming traffic ... and so ends today's helpful hint.
The corner cutting is even worse when the side road to the right is angled towards the driver approaching from the main road. Many drivers will then take their line from the nearer curb of the new road rather than the further curb line. In fact you will likely catch following drivers by surprise if you carry out such an angled turn correctly without cutting the corner.
Excellent video again. I'm curious as to what happened to the BMW driver. My guess is the police saw the video, just tutted a bit and ignored it. At best the driver might have been sent a letter saying they mustn't do it again. That seems to be the result of most incidents where car drivers carelessly just drive into vulnerable road users.
12 month driving ban would be reasonable. But I doubt it.
I've oftentimes said that my uncle gave me a roasting when I was a youth along the lines of, 'You can be as right as you want from a hospital bed'. This was the exact situation I was in as a cyclist. I wasn't struck but came close to it and was yawping about it when those immortal words were spoken. Both as a cyclist and driver, I am always very aware of others cutting the corner, and of not cutting it myself.
My dad's similar line was "there is no point having a gravestone that says HE WAS IN THE RIGHT."
Correct mate
drivers that corner cut are a balance of lazy driving or impatient driving (trying to make the turn before a car coming towards them). pretty much all of them that cut corners dont even think they could hit someone or something, and the more they do it, the more that feeling of getting away with it turns it into a bad habit.
i ride a motorbike, i plan an escape route as much as possible when i can think of situatuons like this where i may be in danger, but there are days i sometimes forget. what can you do? apply "have they seen me" as much as possible to each situation you approach and try and keep an escape route as best as possible and hopefully its a near miss than getting hit like that.
I don't like cutting corners at junctions, what put me off is the number of times I have hit the breaks because of people cutting corners at junctions!
Looking at the green arrow you put for the best position for the cyclist, he would still have been hit. That BMW driver is one of the scary monsters on the road.
I think that should definitely be classed as reckless and dangerous driving, the amount of conflicts caused by cutting corners is incredible. No one was taught to drive like that and would fail their test doing so.
This could have easily been a motorcycle or scooter, or guess what, a PERSON! Car should be looking into where they are going as well as the usual checks. ❤
It could easily have been somebody pushing a pram. The BMW driver thinks he is 'skilled' and it taking racing lines on the highway.
It was a person!
It was a person....on a bike!
your insights are always welcome! Just this morning I had a car cutting the corner ending up entirely in the wrong lane and coming nose to nose with another car. Saw 3 more accidents on a 1.5mile commute. Weird day. Stay safe! ;)
It probably wouldn't have helped here but I'm glad to be running day time lights on my helmet too. Everything I can see has a better chance to see me and country lanes are easier.
As a life long cyclist and motorcyclist as well as a car driver, I would say the biggest clue to intentions is if a cyclist or motorcyclist watches a driver's eyes. You get to know if they have seen you before the event. It is amazing how human beings are tuned into somebody staring at them. If you stare at the driver and then he stares back, you know he has seen you and you are safe.
I don't cycle anymore, most drivers just see you as an obstacle they need to get by asap. I felt there was a near miss every ride.
Not disagreeing with anything Ashley says but I think there is another level to this. I live in Cumbria where many of our roads are narrow and have no centre line. The number of drivers who drift into the centre of the road on right hand bends is if anything more than those who cut the apex on right hand turns. There seems to be something in addition to the problem of just looking out of the windscreen. It's about road positioning and awareness of speed and trajectory.
One positive that should come as drivers hopefully become more used to looking at both sides of the side road they are turning into for people crossing is that this becomes less common. I am referring to the highway code hierarchy of road user vulnerability and associated changes.
I was thinking about exactly that aspect.
Simply a case of fixed head position that never moves. I would've possibly held further back but even then im not sure if i would no be hit with the the way the driver turned in. Look into the corner before committing
I've had a couple of situations this last week where I could easily have injured cyclists if I didn't make proper observations. Also, the point you have made in previous videos that cyclists don't need a licence to be on the road is a piece of "advice" that has served me well.
One of my daily encounters on the road is a cycle lane that appears from behind a fence right before the turnoff I'm using. I'd like a word with whoever designed that part of the road...
That's the infuriating part. It's not that such mistake have been made, that's human. It's the fact that whenever we contact the appropriate authorities on the matter we get completely ignored and nothing gets done to fix the situation (until it's too late, if at all).
It was great to see you do a video on that cyclist and BMW at that junction Ashley. Really do see these incidents happen a lot with people cutting the corner. I'm always looking for where I steer as my cars corners are a bit hard to tell where they are with a long bonnet. People do also need to understand that you're not pointing the finger at others, you're trying to help keep us safe.
As a cyclist, I will often hang back so as not to obstruct the left turning driver's view, but in this case the cyclist appears to be ahead of the left turning car, so I don't think I would have done anything different.
I very likely might in future though!
I find this clip by Ashley Neal fascinating. This video clip demonstrates how when Ashley moves his thoughts from his driving to think about the clip of the cyclist being hit, his frequency of checking his mirrors drops dramatically. At the start of the clip he looks behind every few seconds, as it progresses, and his mind becomes involved in recalling the clip he is discussing, he rarely checks behind at all. It's the perfect example of why it's important while driving to keep focus on the task at hand. Distracted driving can come from many activities and can affect even the very best drivers. If only my wife could understand that. She starts the most irrelevant conversations when my attention is most needed on the road.
What gets me is that not only is cutting the corner really bad, but the fact the driver assumed it was clear and did nothing with their approach speed. If you can't see, then slow right down. It's such a fundamental thing about dealing with risk.
Got smacked off a motorbike in daylight by a driver emerging onto the road. I had the headlight on, yellow /black jacket and a bright helmet, and a police car just behind.
You never rely on the other driver having seen you, ride as though they haven't otherwise you'll be off to A&E.
Rule 1: Never drive in a manner that relies on the cooperation of other other road-users.
In some cases this'll mean assuming other road users MIGHT do something dumb and in other cases (such as this one) it'll mean not relying on other road users to fix problems when YOU do something dumb.
Definitely A pillar blind spot played a role. But the car covered enough distance whilst the bike was stationary that the driver should have seen it. And there is no excuse for such a huge corner cut when there are other cars at the junction.
I honestly don't think the cyclist could have avoided this. Even if it was situated 2 feet to the left, the would have hit the bike.
Quite simply, my driving instructor 20 years ago said that you should imagine the middle line on the junction is a brick wall, so you properly steer round it...always stayed with me, I still think about it, even when I'm on an empty road. Some people were just not taught effectively.
Really helpful advice, there, Ashley, and I really appreciate you sharing it with us. Thank you very much.
If I'm turning right and there's a vehicle coming towards me from ahead, I confess that it can be tempting to cut the corner if it gives me time to cross in front of the other vehicle safely, but I can see that in such a scenario it's too easy to be looking ahead at the oncoming car and not looking adequately down the side road. And the windscreen/door pillar can easily hide things. It would be just awful to hit a cyclist like that. Thanks again.
There are 3 seconds between the car pulling away from the cyclist, exposing him to to the beemer driver, and the moment of impact.
Plenty of time for the driver to see the cyclist had he been looking.
3:35 “people don’t get this” So true, they don’t get it and they don’t want to.
we live in a blame culture where as long as people can point a finger at someone they think the issue is resolved but it isn’t.
Blame culture doesn’t educate and it doesn’t stop the accident happening in the 1st place.
Corner cutting. I see this all the time when I am out cycling hence why I don’t make a turning in the far right of the lane or centre of the road. Just don’t trust drivers turning into the road not to cut corners. So yes, assume the worst and just try and avoid this if you’re out cycling.
I see so many cars cut the corners like that around here. I think it's more haste less speed issue.
Not just going into a junction but coming out as well. Today, I went around a car in the middle of the road, purposefully didn't let him out just to make him sweat a little as I turned into the road (knowing there was just enough room for my wee car to get past and in without contact) - massive lack of driving skills round me, there are two 90 degree blind corners coming into my road just after that junction and loads of people forget what the circular thing in their hands is for and cut both of them - and these are the same people who walk down that street and almost get run over by cars cutting those corners - common sense is not common, darwin awards are though.
Corner cutting is so common these days along with not bothering to go around the white spot of a mini-roundabout.
It's so ironic that drivers find it such hard work to slow right down before making a turn when all the real effort is done for them by the engine. I also find it funny, when driving towards a T-junction and I want to make a right turn, that often, the driver of the car turning right into the road I wish to exit, glare at me as if to say "How dare you be in the space that I wish to drive through".
Cutting corners is common these day. 20+ years a go almost exactly the same thing happend to me. Mini driver hit me head on but no damage to me or my bike, amazingly. Since that day I learnt to never position myself far right, always to centre and a yard back if possible. I also tie-wrapped a flashing head torch on my helmet so I could direct beam at cars approaching from an angle. As I've said before, it doen't matter who's fault it is you're still run over. You have got to anticipate this kind of thing. Sometimes I'd get off and push the bike somewhere safer. My safety came first.
I used to negotiate a roundabout on way to work, cars would almost panic to not stop for me as a cyclist but would quite happily wait if I was in a car. In the end I walked the bike across as riding it was too dodgy.
I don't care what the law says or who was to blame, I think this cyclist put himself in harms way, you gotta look after yourself.
Thank you for the upload Brother! I always position as well so that I start turning after the front has passed the centre road demarcation line enough so that no part of the vehicle cuts the corner. I also always stay tight to corners when it is safe to do so & never go all the way over to the right to turn left which I notice people do this opposed to steering properly as I do. Obviously I am looking out of the side as I start turning but also do safety check prior to & during turning because I like people (shhhhh) & do not want to hurt them.
Peace & Love!
I don't ever hug the centre line that close on my motorbike, but even then I've had to swerve out the way of car drivers cutting corners when approaching junctions like this several times.
The wildest thing is, there are lots of people who genuinely wouldn't swerve out the way if they had the chance because "they're in the right". But like in that one film "being right ain't a bullet proof vest".
I'll admit, I don't know what that is from, but I read it on the motouk subreddit a while ago, and its something I always keep in mind whenever someone is doing something that puts me in danger. I can be as legally right as I want. Won't stop that car/van/bus/whatever from turning me into human pancake.
Almost had a similar incident recently but with zero excuses for the driver. A standard T junction, zero traffic, myself and my partner on the major road turning left onto the minor. A speeding VW mpv cut the corner turning right off the minor road across our lane, narrowly avoiding a collision by swerving. Sad to say it was not caught on camera.
For those wondering the outcome of this, the driver was put on a driver awareness course (source: response from the cyclist in the comments of the original video on X)
I do love your videos, they are probably one of the ongoing refresher sources I have found. I do feel sorry for Liz though. I couldn't help wondering what she's thinking - "Why can't we even go to the shops without him going off on one!" maybe.
Yes your analysis is correct. Because the BMW driver intended to cut the corner and not slow down he never saw the cyclist until it was too late. The A pillar completely obscured the cyclist but whats also interesting is that even if the cyclist was an arms length from the center line there would still be a 50:50 chance of him being struck by the wing of the car. The probability is that it would have at least taken out the front wheel of the bike and you can see this just from the track of the car
A similar problem ('A' pillar obscuration) occurs as a driver turning right, at a T junction.
This is where a vehicle on the main road is continuously obscured by the passenger side A pillar due to slight curves in the road and vehicle rolling positioning.
It's especially bad on quiet suburban roads where traffic is infrequent so a rolling merge, into an otherwise empty road, feels normal, until you realise the other car has loomed 'out of nowhere' by the side mirror.
Even if you've been observing the road steadily for many seconds, the combined motions can make the other vehicle stay obscured by the A pillar.
Almost everybody is unaware of just how little we really see and how much we 'hallucinate' based on expectations.
It's good education watching your videos, they've made me slow down as a driver because raised my awareness of potential dangers.
I'm learning to drive, so enjoy these videos of "hidden dangers" to look out for. The first road on my learning route is a right turn on terraced side-streets that's more than 90-degrees, so sometimes difficult to avoid cutting the junction in some fashion. Admittedly, I am also concentrating on the parked cars in the new road, rather than looking firmly right-side for oncoming vehicles, but this video has made me more aware of that.
I was taught by a police instructor,and I become a driving instructor.
He told me, " It's not what you can see that is a danger,it's what you can't see" 40 years later I still apply what he said.
Not 100% sure - then slow down!
Yes I agree with Ashleys analysis it definitely looked like an a pillar blind spot incident on top of the corner cutting,
I nearly hit a cyclist in my fiat ducato camper which has relatively wide a pillars ever since then I told myself I need to be moving about on my seat changing my viewing angle continually, (My sister was sitting in with me one day she's also a driver and she asked me what I was doing, and I had to explain the what and why to her)
This would be good for the motoring channel, but it does show the cyclist how easy it is for them to become invisible to motorists who don't do the proper checks , and to be aware of it. Now for that drink.....
Check, check again and re check before turning
There are quite a few things that can make road users invisible aside from the A-pillar including road signs
Enjoy your drink
@@smilerbob the drink's for Ashley. He needs it more than me 🙂
@@thomaselliot2257 Oh dear, I appear to be continuing the confusion, I do apologise.
It is not helped by starting work at 730 in the morning and still working now gone midnight
And this is why I follow the channel, no drama, no blame (from a personal perspective), just facts, analysis and guidance, to help those who listen and understand to be better. 💯
What I appreciate about this channel is that despite recognising that it's people not following the rules that causes the accidents, there is a recognition that responsible road users must think ahead to protect themselves against those road users who make mistakes or use the roads poorly.
Nothing Ashley said was victim blaming, and I've seen a few comments just say that the focus should be on the driver. The driver is at fault, just like a robber is at fault if they break into your home. They aren't following the rules and they are endangering others. However, if you forgot to lock your doors one night, it might explain why someone got in so easily.
In the same way, Ashley talking about what the cyclist could have done to space themselves may have avoided the collision. Putting themselves in the best position possible could have maximized their chances of being spotted or avoiding the misbehaving driver. Even though it's ultimately the car driver at fault, teaching other people to take steps to protect themselves against other road users who aren't going to follow the rules, or make mistakes, will save lives in future. You don't want "But they were at fault!" on your grave.
Well written comments.
generally, I have no issue with people cutting corners, some roads make it a necessity, but the golden rule is that road must/should be clear and cause no issues to anyone. In the given clip, there doesn't seem to be any reason to rush or cut the corner like an oncoming vehicle. In the same situation, you'd have to careful of cars making a second lane at that junction, and overtaking the black BMW.
There seems to be an absolute epidemic of this kind of bad, dangerous driving recently. Even as a driver, when approaching the give way line at a T-junction and wanting to turn right, I hang back if I see a vehicle is going to be turning into the road I am about to exit from, because junction cutting is just so common now. As a cyclist, I'd keep well clear of the T-point, and be very wary of drivers turning from my left.
It used to be the case that cars went "around" each other when both turning right at a junction in opposite directions... this allowed both drivers full vision of what was coming into the junction. It also made the turn tighter and forced you to the left side of the road you are entering. This changed at some point around when I took my driving test which I still find strange as it encourages people to turn lazily and cut the corner. Junctions even have lane markings so that cars sit blocking each others view of the road ahead. Rule 181.
I got a new bike when this happened to me, the female driver drove off at speed, a passerby called the police who were waiting for her at home. Driving without due care and attention, failure to report an accident and hit and run. I got 150 quid compensation this was 1991 and was a lot of money then.
I cycle to work every day in Stoke-on-Trent and used to wear a bright blue jacket as the cyclist in the video does. After Two near misses and a comment from a car driver that they couldn't see me (or my flashing lights and reflectors), I now where a bright yellow jacket. The BMW cuts across the road markings and shows little regard for other road users.
For me, it is about putting yourself in a position of safety, we’re taught it on the motorcycle training constantly because motorists don’t always see vehicles on 2 wheels. At that junction, a motorcyclist doing that manoeuvre so close to the junction and the car would have been obviously quite dangerous due to being partially obstructed so you just wouldn’t do it and wait behind the BMW, but because it is a cyclist, it is quite often overlooked. And cyclists are not often taught about this stuff you just get on a bike and off you go but the principles of safe positioning apply to all vehicles using the road. It’s fine to say the BMW who hit him was at fault but as a cyclist you still got hit so who cares you’re still hit! Just because there is a zebra crossing doesn’t mean you don’t look both ways.
Ashley. You are very good at describing the accident whilst driving at the same time.
I have always detested corner cutters - I see no reason whatsoever for it other than laziness. At least this BMW driver had filled up his indicator fluid, but maybe he only accidentally turned it on. That gives him a mere 1 point against being sent to the 7th circle of Hell.
I was thinking green arrow for me personally & a little back from the give way; Energy spent affirming your stance on not laying blame, is energy well spent, for those who already know, enjoy the content. There will always be something to learn✌
Whilst riding my motorbike in a similar scenario, and positioning myself so I could be seen, someone cut the corner so much that they passed me on my left!
So many cyclists are drivers too, and we ought to remember how careless and risk-blind some drivers can be. We’ve often got the roadsense and yet even so, when you don’t have the relative protection of a vehicle body all around you and the ability get out of danger faster that being on four wheels gives you, it’s easy to forget just how much more vulnerable you are out there on the roads.
Hard to see what this cyclist could have done better since the BMW driver was travelling so fast, but perhaps assuming the worst of other road users’ skills and choices and riding / positioning ourselves defensively is the best way to minimise risks? Very lucky escape indeed for all concerned here. Great points made in this video, definitely got me thinking. Cheers, Ashley.
Ashley should do a reaction video on the lady who got picked up by the door shutters.
"Should more awareness have been shown by both parties?"
1:47 I'm as shocked as you are, Liz - who would have anticipated a BMW turning a corner with its indicator on!
At least the BMW driver had his right-turn indicator on!
This reminded me of your Highway Code update video last weekend. Comments have passed 2,000, and many could be summarised as "Stupid new rules fixing what wasn't broke". Wasn't broke - really? The scary thing is how many seem to be more upset by the rule changes themselves than by the standards of driving they are exposing as abysmal. Apparently we can't have an extension of the protection of more vulnerable road users because the less vulnerable can't even be trusted to look where they are going.
One point I saw made on the twitter thread was that the lane the cyclist was in was only wide enough for cars to leave it in single file, so because other drivers are expecting vehicles to leave that road one at a time, perhaps the cyclist would have been better off filtering in two cars behind instead of one then taking enough space to be the only vehicle at the give way line while waiting to turn right.
Of course the driver is at fault with that horrendous corner cut but like has been said many times, you can be as right as you want from a hospital bed. Better to do what you can to avoid an accident than get into one knowing you're not at fault.
I'm always having to move to get out of the path of motorists who insist on cutting corners. I think they think that cyclists should always keep to the left and that cars have priority over bicycles
Not entirely related to this incident, but I had a good one yesterday. In my case I was the driver but coming from the opposite side the BMW did and trying to turn into the side road. View was fairly obscured by some horribly placed roadworks so I started turning in only to have to slam on the breaks because a cyclist and scooter were side by side in the right hand lane (from their perspective) right in front of me.
Needless to say they started shouting at me and banging on my car bonnet to go around them and to cross and enter the side road using the wrong side.
So anyone that thinks the cyclist in this clip was too far to the right, bear in mind he could have been 2-3 yards further to the right as he waited to pull out, which is fun to deal with as the motorist.
I don't think I've been a corner-cutter, but I find I'm much better at getting it right since adopting Ashley's 'A' pillar and centre line line-up method. It works every time. Keeping the speed down is also crucial.
When I did my mod 1 bike test the instructor told me to look at the wear marks between the cones on the slow speed manoeuvres. Now look at the wear marks on road T junctions. Cutting corners has become a horrible habit adopted by society. We need to do better.
I would have been tucked in behind the lead vehicle more towards its left side ,moving up after it turned right. This puts you more in the center of the junction , I can't recall ever being just in side the white line, and I've commuted for 40 years.
I’ve been driving since 2001. Never used to see this. Now I see it all the time and it’s mostly done at speed as well. It’s like they can’t be bothered to turn the wheel enough rotations to go wide so they flick it half a turn and boot it. They then look at you like you did something wrong