Designing grades and helix for the Model Railway
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2024
- Inclines and declines, often referred to as grades on the Model railroad / railway is probably one of the more demanding parts to design properly. I explain the different methods, the most useful formulas and tips & tricks for successful designs in this video. I´m also covering helix design and the additional factors you need to consider.
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1. Pledge $1 on Patreon - / marklinofsweden
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Thanks for your support! I couldn't do this without you!
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Spenden Sie 1 Euro auf Patreon - / marklinofsweden
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The comparisons between UK, Europe, and US layout styles is valuable. I draw inspiration from both US and euro styles in my euro outline layout in the US. There is a lot we can learn from one another, and I think people can benefit from these different approaches regardless of where they are. Another great video for a truly international audience, Martin.
As usual, Martin, you go into great depth and clearly explain the "big picture" on this topic, including its place in layout design. This is very valuable and shares a perspective lacking in many explanations found in videos which only focus on the technical details. Cheers from Wisconsin!
Beautiful Layout. Really appreciate your presentation style. Very Informative and helpful.
Thank you for pointing out the issues with the NEM couplings. That makes me rethink my Helix design and may make me switch to K tracks for the helix so save some height.
Wow, this is delightfully well informative! There have been quite some debates and experiments here at home about the max percentage of inclines. Luckily Märklin locos are very powerful but we don't want to stress the motors too much either.
There is a German YT where a guy visited M's QA dept. They demonstrated that a new design is tested at 5% with wagons each loaded with 200 grams. M claimed in that vid that a model should at least be able to haul in scale what the prototype could manage but that 5% incline is indeed the max tested by M. They also demonstrated that a loco is able to haul even more than prototypical, but not sure if it all was marketing talk related to the controversy that M went from their standard 4 tyres on Coco and BoBo locos to 2 on newer designs. We have no problems with 2 tyres though and we settled at a max of 3% incline which all locos with cars so far can handle easy peasy.
Being careful with curved inclines and not using switches on inclines at all is a valuable extra bit of info here for us. Since we have read about and seen the many problems with helices (sagging) we just decided to avoid them altogether. Great upload Martin 👋👋👋
Extremely valuable tips an tricks! Love the in-depth reasonings.
In the US we tend to use percents as a way to measure gradients.
Hello, thank You very much for the idea to split the gradient between the upper and the lower line! Great idea !
Amazing watching your videos!
Very good information!
Thank you!
Execllent video ... once again, Martin. I'm a dedicated subscriber
Thank you. I have finalised my design. Now I will review all grades and vertical easements !
Fantastic reflections and thoughts on design and planning. Thank you for sharing.
Excellent video, thank you 😀
Thank you champ.
My father worked in a plywood plant for over 30 years so I've been close to plywood my entire life Its just sad that he's passed away so among other things I can't get from him is plywood advice or discounts haha.
One thing I've noticed Martin, is with my M track I'm running in the mountains roughly 7 to 8% grades, and the old märklin heavyweights like the 3015, 3014, RSM800, to name just the Swiss loks are absolute machines. The big motor css800/ 3015 just climbs like a mountain goat.
Reason why I bring this up is, for example, my 3029 BR44 is a fair way heavier than the newer, and much more detailed 3084 BR50 kabintender, and is a brute compared to it, notwithstanding the actual motor is practically the same.
Just sometimes when looking at gradients for your model railway it can pay to consider what you're going to run.
But those early big motor krokodils are indomitable machines.
The earlier models with the early "open frame" motor had a lot of torque and were often weighted heavier than the later locomotives, this is true of even the early plastic Fleischmann locos, they were heavier than the later versions that came out in the 80's which is why they are still so sought after.
17:00 - such a beautiful loco and setting, perfect! Can someone tell me which loco it is? Great video too, thank you Martin :)
Very good analysis. In the US both the "Prototype" (real railroad), and the models use multiple locomotives to pull long trains (some can be 2 miles in length or more in the East), or going over mountain ranges like the Rockies.
Hi Mark Bob Cooney here
Thank for your amazing videos and your clear explanations,
I d like to understand how do you add a camera to your locos 🎉
I use an action-cam on a wagon pushed by the loco.. my cam is Sony Az-1 but it’s no longer available. Look for current models, but make sure they fit under catenary and tunnels
Material thickness would be 12=12 so 124mm track top to track top gaah What a great explanation thank you
Excellent video Martin, answered a lot of my queries with regard to gradients and helixes but I do have some concerns with regard to the maths, although it could be me, for example at 8:4min a 1 in 30 (3.3%) = 1.9° ≠ 1.5° ....... (from Tan α = a/b) consequently steeper as an angle in degrees!
I have bought Martinstown, which is your own design and the grade there is 3cm incline in 40cm according to my measurements. Now that is way more than 5 degrees.
3 in 40 is 4.3 degrees
It would be nice if you could produce a video were locos control other locos automatically in different blocks by changing signals, changing directions of turnouts and turning the elctricity on and off. Thanks.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Martin, Thank you for an excellent explanation. I found it very helpful because I am designing a Marklin HO layout with a 610mm total height. I plan to use Atlas Code 100 Flex track for the two helices planned for the layout. Can you recommend how to add the center contact to such track?
i ve been fighting with helixes some time ago i ve done my own helix at taht time i didnt know nothing about grades , after that build the trains where falling down from it finally i decided to get rid of helixes and finally i ve got 4x inclines 2,40 long each . i also have been trying to do it myself i eaven bought electronic level that counts the degrees of inclination , but still i ve got something wrong after some help from one of germanys shop i decided to buy ready-made inclines from woodland scenics - they very cheap in compare to noch -
so my advice is buy premade inclines from woodland scenics or noch - and when it comes to helixes also buy it from noch - i wasted on this doing this by myself so much money that i might but 1x locomotive and 5 freight cars rolling stock for it ; - i ve got leyout 9 square meters and for now i ve got 53m of tracks
Martin, a question: you mention using double 6mm ply as the helix subroadbed.
Now, in Martinstown layout you used the Noch easy track roadbed, which is of course 4mm mdf.
Is there any compelling reason you're using birch ply over the mdf? You've obviously experienced both products, and I was just wondering if one or the other is that much better?
I do appreciate that mdf is quite heavy, however the Noch product is 4mm so can't be that much heavier...
Cheers
I had very little saying on the Noch product unfortunately. They didn’t accept my design since it was too large 3,10 x 1,50m. So, it was shrunk to 2,5m instead making the grades way too steep. The material is Noch ”Easy track” system and is selected on lowest manufacturing cost. A kit with ply subroadbed would have made the kit more than x4 in price and un-sellable. So.. The Noch product is what the Noch product is. It’s not ment to be a long-lasting permanent layout kit. Fast, low-cost and easy..
@marklinofsweden thank you very much for your detailed and forthright answer. The reality is Noch is selling a suitable product for those enthusiasts who want a good-looking and well executed layout, and to understandably remain an affordable product.
I suppose an analogy would be those exact martinstown Ikea tables. You'd used them as they are affordable, easy to build up, look smart (for a time) and do what is required of them.
If they were solid oak I'm sure Martinstown would live for a thousand years, however Ikea would've probably sold one a year...
It's awkward isn't it: 3,10m is just on that size of being too large for the spare bedroom.
Funny how Bing's Table Railway, Trix Express and Märklins 00, and hornbys dublo were all developed to be able to fit your railway Empire onto the kitchen table.
Model railroading has gone so far forwards, and yet gone so far backwards at the same time...
Cheers Martin, awesome stuff
33:16 I thought it was a universal no-no to solder the inside of tracks. I mean I understand with careful solder and possibly sanding down any solder bumps it can be done but still why risk it.
I was scared to do a helix 😮
What are you using for switch indicator lights I saw ?
Hi! I´m not sure exactly what you mean here.. Can you expand on the question? The video shown is collection from 8 different layouts using many types of switches.
@@marklinofsweden Good day, I noticed in one of the videos when you were talking about grades, their was track lights for switchs , they indicate the track open or closed, nice green and red lights
I have an suitcase Layout with
10 cm in 70 cm😅
... Helices ...
👌👍👍👍🛤
promo sm
Why all this explaining in inches and other imperial measures? You’re from Sweden and are part of 95% of the globe using metric.
Bad day eh?
But he is right
@@JockeB70 not really, just a bit irritated with all that imperial nonsense. Why does the world need to cater to this outdated measurement system only used by 3 countries (Liberia, Myanmar and USA)
Leave him alone. It's not hurting anyone and the 10s of thousands of us in the US appreciate it.
@@Dragonflyte1 eh? and the rest of the world doesn’t count, they should simply adjust to you?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Hill
This Existed in real world where in Canada we used to have a grade of 4.5% when the Canadian Pacific Railway first opened but it was NOT good at all and was only made as a temporary measure to allow the completion of the railway. It's been replaced by much more sensible grades.