I have fond childhood memories of visiting the NEB&W club layout at RPI. Delighted to see the classic Red Rocks scene was an inspiration for this client's layout!
I miss the NEB&W... I'm an RPI alum and whenever they call me up asking for a donation I say they won't get a cent until they put the railroad back together.
While I never got to visit in person, that was one of the best, most scenic layouts to grace the magazines back then. None of the modern ones come close to the feeling of being there that layout did.
That scene has been an inspiration to me since I first saw it about 40 years ago. I incorporated a version of it in the design for my own basement when I first moved into my current home (right before my business took off and now won't give me the time to build it).
That elevated track on the upper level peninsula looks like it could be stunning. The detail I like the most tho is the simple derelict track on the lower level. That's detailing as a way to create a history that isn't just happy times for the railways.
Another fascinating design, Peter, with several useful, thought-provoking ideas for scenicking parts of the lower levels that might otherwise consist of miles of bland storage sidings.
If you've been watching this channel for a while, you may have noticed that I often add a few isolated scenic areas into a lower staging level. They give the builder an opportunity to do some scenery work much earlier in the construction process than would otherwise be possible. Also, being well isolated from the rest of the railroad, they can represent different kinds of scene that would be out of place elsewhere. Usually, we don't need the whole lower level for staging.
In regards to the Hillside church, one possible option you can have in place of road access, is to detail a simple trail running along side the track from main street to it. Very often, old churches (even some today that are still in use), don't have parking or road access. If you're not modeling a specific sunday where you'd expect church goers to be present, then the lack of road access isn't an issue.
Mechanical rooms are usually enclosed for fire reasons and usually have a 1-hour fire rating. Are there any codes being violated by opening the wall for the layout?
I've always been curious. What discussion, if any, do you have with clients about scale choice? I'm particularly interested in the situation where there is no existing rolling stock or structures or track they have and want to use. Do you suggest HO where they were thinking O, or N where they were thinking HO?
Scale is a very person choice. Usually, my clients already know what scale they want to use. On the rare occasions that the client is unsure, I simply give him a paragraph about the advantages of each and let him choose. I never make that choice for him.
Your video here got me thinking about my father, He worked in a Plywood plant that does ship lots of its items by rail and so I went to google maps and looked at his former job to see how the tracks were laid out and strangely enough all there is is double track Canadian Pacific Rail Mainline running in front of the place with no sidings or anything like that I now wish I had been able to ask him before he passed away if they did any loading to trains from there and if so How?
If it's just a double-track mainline, they're not loading trains there: leaving cars on the mainline for loading would block it for too long. Have they perhaps stopped shipping by rail since your father worked there, and lifted the track?
@@beeble2003 Not really, We have a summer cabin near the same main line maybe 50km from there and I always see their branded plywood on trains that go by our cabin so I kknow it is being shipped by rail but maybe they load it somwhere else, There is a siding nearby but it looks Rail related more than Plant related www.google.com/maps/place/Canoe+Forest+Products+Shipping+Department/@50.7612091,-119.2085064,349m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x537ef3e7ef255991:0x4b8f6093188673d8!8m2!3d50.7547569!4d-119.2183609!16s%2Fg%2F11f544kwpp?hl=en&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExOS4yIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D That's the place if you want to take a look and see if you can maybe see where there might have been torn up rail? He worked there from the 70s until about 2015
Altough I liked what you have come up with, I would delete all the industries, left and right from the station on the upper level. Passengertrains it is on this level and should be the focus. I would only let the postoffice stay. (I do not know what REA means). More important, being a big station as it is, I would prefer to see big flats and houses around it (on the backdrop or only walls) to create a look of the big city it is in. I also think there is no room enough (time) to spot all those industries in between the allready busy movements of long trains and shunting the cars to and from sidings to the post office and station. Where do you wait with a string of freightcars? In the sidings? (full of passengercars). On the mainline? (not wanted). You can not get to the "Large industry" from the spur to/from the brewery. Also, when coming of the helix, you merge on to the mainline (if I followed the tracks right). Shifting the left complex of points a bit more to the left and there is room for a freight only spur to/from the brewery. Saves switches and makes the work of the operators much easier.
As always with this type of big-city layout design, I draw what is possible in the space and suggest to my client that he only include what he wants. The rear track in the terminal area will be used as a thoroughfare track and also for holding the local freight while switching, so passenger trains will only use that one for brief station stops (leaving 5 tracks for switching passenger trains. There are enough crossovers for all the required moves. The daily local freight will arrive from the middle deck via the rear connection to the heilx (the innermost of the three tracks around the end curve), switch the engine terminal ad local industries, then the beer-line area, and then return to the helix via the ramp in front of the station. BTW, REA stands for Railway Express Agency. This is where express freight is loaded for conveyance on passenger trains - faster than normal freight service for shippers willing to pay the higher tariffs.
I charge $70/hr for my time. If you are in the market for a custom layout design, please contact me through my web-site and I will send you everything you need to know.
An E-shape is usually not a good use of space, even if it fits. There are two problems: 1; most of the length of the main line is on tight end-curves, resulting in a lack of long straights suitable for yards. The only exception is if you have enough space to build it as an island that can be walked all around. Unfortunately, an island is absolutely the worst possible use of space in the vast majority of situations. 2; an 'E' shape requires 3 space-eating 'blobs'. Much better is a 'G' shape, which only requires 2. I hope this helps.
Interesting design. Has anyone ever done staging at/just above floor level with a stepover instead of a duck-under. Thinking one or two steps to step over the track running across the aisles.
The main problem with something like that is getting down to that level. One cannot use a helix because there would be no way to get inside it for access. I normally don't go below about 20" because that allows a few inches for benchwork and then plenty of clearance for getting under with a creeper..
Most of the turnouts for the lower deck are already in the client's possession. If he just buys a few at a time and stock-piles them, then he can have everything he needs by the time he is ready to start on the upper levels - no large outlays necessary.
This makes me wonder what kind of layout if ,one, I knew you existed and two, if I could afford to have you do it. This is not saying anything about what you charge, you're reasonable ,it's just that I didn't have the money . I do know, that I should have figured out how to get a helix in my spaces and have a second level. When I look in the large room, 18x20 , and see all that air space I get sick.😅
That's a common sentiment that I hear a lot. One of the reasons that I continue to post regular design videos is to share ideas with model railroaders who can't justify the expense of a custom design. The other is of course to advertise my services (I feel I should mention that before someone feels the need to point out the obvious and assumes I'm trying to hide it).
Yes, i inderstand, I was only dreaming. I'm 81 and won't build an other layout. I could never take an existing layout and "fit it into my space. I do enjoy your videos and im sure you are helping a large group of people by showing your process of desiging. Thanks for sharing . @mpeterll
@@bobainsworth5057 Don't let the age stop you. At 79 last year, I started my first layout since the 1960's. It has three DCC levels, and an additional circuit around for my DC equipment. After fourteen months of work, the upper outside circuit is done (and switchable to DCC), the middle circuit with a working yard and a mine extension is mostly done, and the lower fiddle yard with a double track helix is running. (Done means able to run trains with trackwork problems pretty well worked out. When I started, I didn't know anything about DCC, let alone control for all those points - now, it functions well and the scenery is about to be begin. Keeping my mind busy with all the challenges has been a real boost to my person.
That lower level scene from the RPI layout is based on a real scene on the old Delaware & Hudson. I love it too. ❤
Wonderful plan!
Yes I know it's based on a real scene. The version on this layout is simply "inspired by" so we are free to add/delete features as desired.
I have fond childhood memories of visiting the NEB&W club layout at RPI. Delighted to see the classic Red Rocks scene was an inspiration for this client's layout!
I miss the NEB&W... I'm an RPI alum and whenever they call me up asking for a donation I say they won't get a cent until they put the railroad back together.
@@Admiral_Ellis haha niiiiice
While I never got to visit in person, that was one of the best, most scenic layouts to grace the magazines back then. None of the modern ones come close to the feeling of being there that layout did.
That scene has been an inspiration to me since I first saw it about 40 years ago. I incorporated a version of it in the design for my own basement when I first moved into my current home (right before my business took off and now won't give me the time to build it).
@@mpeterll Congrats on being a victim of your own success? :)
Definitely a “think outside the box “ lesson in design. Thanks Peter and Happy Thanksgiving to you.
Making the most of a difficult space as per usual. Great design Peter
That elevated track on the upper level peninsula looks like it could be stunning.
The detail I like the most tho is the simple derelict track on the lower level. That's detailing as a way to create a history that isn't just happy times for the railways.
Another fascinating design, Peter, with several useful, thought-provoking ideas for scenicking parts of the lower levels that might otherwise consist of miles of bland storage sidings.
If you've been watching this channel for a while, you may have noticed that I often add a few isolated scenic areas into a lower staging level. They give the builder an opportunity to do some scenery work much earlier in the construction process than would otherwise be possible. Also, being well isolated from the rest of the railroad, they can represent different kinds of scene that would be out of place elsewhere. Usually, we don't need the whole lower level for staging.
In regards to the Hillside church, one possible option you can have in place of road access, is to detail a simple trail running along side the track from main street to it. Very often, old churches (even some today that are still in use), don't have parking or road access. If you're not modeling a specific sunday where you'd expect church goers to be present, then the lack of road access isn't an issue.
I agree with Harry, the top deck just looks too busy but like you mentioned it could be years before the owner gets to that level.
Thank you, as always. Wonderful! Cheers 🇦🇺
Brilliant work as always
For some of us less knowledgeable types, it would be nice to see how a layout -- any layout -- is actually used, including all the switching, etc
Good suggestion. I'll try to remember to discuss this a little more in future layout design videos.
One of your best.
thank-you.
Mechanical rooms are usually enclosed for fire reasons and usually have a 1-hour fire rating.
Are there any codes being violated by opening the wall for the layout?
Every state has different rules. All he needs is to avoid putting combustible materials (wood, etc) next to the furnace.
I've always been curious. What discussion, if any, do you have with clients about scale choice? I'm particularly interested in the situation where there is no existing rolling stock or structures or track they have and want to use. Do you suggest HO where they were thinking O, or N where they were thinking HO?
Scale is a very person choice. Usually, my clients already know what scale they want to use. On the rare occasions that the client is unsure, I simply give him a paragraph about the advantages of each and let him choose. I never make that choice for him.
Your video here got me thinking about my father, He worked in a Plywood plant that does ship lots of its items by rail and so I went to google maps and looked at his former job to see how the tracks were laid out and strangely enough all there is is double track Canadian Pacific Rail Mainline running in front of the place with no sidings or anything like that
I now wish I had been able to ask him before he passed away if they did any loading to trains from there and if so How?
If it's just a double-track mainline, they're not loading trains there: leaving cars on the mainline for loading would block it for too long. Have they perhaps stopped shipping by rail since your father worked there, and lifted the track?
@@beeble2003 Not really, We have a summer cabin near the same main line maybe 50km from there and I always see their branded plywood on trains that go by our cabin
so I kknow it is being shipped by rail but maybe they load it somwhere else, There is a siding nearby but it looks Rail related more than Plant related
www.google.com/maps/place/Canoe+Forest+Products+Shipping+Department/@50.7612091,-119.2085064,349m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x537ef3e7ef255991:0x4b8f6093188673d8!8m2!3d50.7547569!4d-119.2183609!16s%2Fg%2F11f544kwpp?hl=en&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExOS4yIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
That's the place if you want to take a look and see if you can maybe see where there might have been torn up rail?
He worked there from the 70s until about 2015
Altough I liked what you have come up with, I would delete all the industries, left and right from the station on the upper level. Passengertrains it is on this level and should be the focus. I would only let the postoffice stay. (I do not know what REA means). More important, being a big station as it is, I would prefer to see big flats and houses around it (on the backdrop or only walls) to create a look of the big city it is in.
I also think there is no room enough (time) to spot all those industries in between the allready busy movements of long trains and shunting the cars to and from sidings to the post office and station. Where do you wait with a string of freightcars? In the sidings? (full of passengercars). On the mainline? (not wanted). You can not get to the "Large industry" from the spur to/from the brewery. Also, when coming of the helix, you merge on to the mainline (if I followed the tracks right). Shifting the left complex of points a bit more to the left and there is room for a freight only spur to/from the brewery. Saves switches and makes the work of the operators much easier.
As always with this type of big-city layout design, I draw what is possible in the space and suggest to my client that he only include what he wants. The rear track in the terminal area will be used as a thoroughfare track and also for holding the local freight while switching, so passenger trains will only use that one for brief station stops (leaving 5 tracks for switching passenger trains. There are enough crossovers for all the required moves.
The daily local freight will arrive from the middle deck via the rear connection to the heilx (the innermost of the three tracks around the end curve), switch the engine terminal ad local industries, then the beer-line area, and then return to the helix via the ramp in front of the station.
BTW, REA stands for Railway Express Agency. This is where express freight is loaded for conveyance on passenger trains - faster than normal freight service for shippers willing to pay the higher tariffs.
thankyou for detail video
Hi Peter.
What do you charge for designing a layout?
I charge $70/hr for my time. If you are in the market for a custom layout design, please contact me through my web-site and I will send you everything you need to know.
What is your web site?
@@viktortoghia6066 There's a link in the description.
Peter, would an E shape with 30" curves work in a bit larger area, say 24'x24'?
An E-shape is usually not a good use of space, even if it fits. There are two problems:
1; most of the length of the main line is on tight end-curves, resulting in a lack of long straights suitable for yards. The only exception is if you have enough space to build it as an island that can be walked all around. Unfortunately, an island is absolutely the worst possible use of space in the vast majority of situations.
2; an 'E' shape requires 3 space-eating 'blobs'. Much better is a 'G' shape, which only requires 2.
I hope this helps.
Nice!
Interesting design. Has anyone ever done staging at/just above floor level with a stepover instead of a duck-under. Thinking one or two steps to step over the track running across the aisles.
The main problem with something like that is getting down to that level. One cannot use a helix because there would be no way to get inside it for access. I normally don't go below about 20" because that allows a few inches for benchwork and then plenty of clearance for getting under with a creeper..
A step-over sounds like a great opportunity to kick your trains across the room by accident.
Some beautill scenery i would hate to buy all of those turnouts though
Most of the turnouts for the lower deck are already in the client's possession. If he just buys a few at a time and stock-piles them, then he can have everything he needs by the time he is ready to start on the upper levels - no large outlays necessary.
Not that it matters but my opinion is the top deck just looks to busy. The bottom deck is going to be stunning though.
This makes me wonder what kind of layout if ,one, I knew you existed and two, if I could afford to have you do it. This is not saying anything about what you charge, you're reasonable ,it's just that I didn't have the money . I do know, that I should have figured out how to get a helix in my spaces and have a second level. When I look in the large room, 18x20 , and see all that air space I get sick.😅
That's a common sentiment that I hear a lot. One of the reasons that I continue to post regular design videos is to share ideas with model railroaders who can't justify the expense of a custom design. The other is of course to advertise my services (I feel I should mention that before someone feels the need to point out the obvious and assumes I'm trying to hide it).
Yes, i inderstand, I was only dreaming. I'm 81 and won't build an other layout. I could never take an existing layout and "fit it into my space. I do enjoy your videos and im sure you are helping a large group of people by showing your process of desiging. Thanks for sharing . @mpeterll
@@bobainsworth5057 Don't let the age stop you. At 79 last year, I started my first layout since the 1960's. It has three DCC levels, and an additional circuit around for my DC equipment. After fourteen months of work, the upper outside circuit is done (and switchable to DCC), the middle circuit with a working yard and a mine extension is mostly done, and the lower fiddle yard with a double track helix is running. (Done means able to run trains with trackwork problems pretty well worked out. When I started, I didn't know anything about DCC, let alone control for all those points - now, it functions well and the scenery is about to be begin.
Keeping my mind busy with all the challenges has been a real boost to my person.