He has been treating my daughter for the past 2 years and she has gone from being bed bound and also multiple neurological symptoms to fully independent and going to start school again
I didn’t have a trained practitioner in my area but I bought the book. I took the book to my chiropractor and asked if he would read the book and see if he would try the technique on me. He agreed and it helped me so much! I did the daily exercises and lymphatic massage and went to the chiropractor weekly. Between Perrin technique and DNRS brain retraining I am totally recovered from long Covid! So thankful for this man’s dedication to helping patients with ME and long Covid! Thank you so much!❤️
…well he didn’t really give her a chance 🤦♀️ I couldn’t get through this video listening to this man doing his monologue with the *female* interviewer never getting so much as a brief pause to ask for a clarification or ask a follow up question. 😤
I work as a GP in the U.K. and this is an eye opener video! I have myself been under rheumatologist in immune suppression for 6yrs since “a Bug” triggered my symptoms. This video could be a game changer for me.
Check out " the open medicine foundation" too. Like any illness , there's many subtypes to this illness even tho they present in similar ways. You could have eds as an underlying pathology and mast cell activation syndrome. But the theory Dr Davies, creator of the human genome has put forward is " the metabolic trap". He thinks it's reversible. This guy is trying to save his very sick son. He was working for standford until ten years. Like I say co creator of the human genome project. A bonified genius. Look him up
This is so interesting. I have had CFS for 7 years and have always had very little movement available in my thoracic spine. 7 months ago I started seeing an osteopath, since I've started pilates and am focusing specifically on my spinal mobility and my health has improved vastly. I have gone from approx 30% to 70-80% recovered. So exciting to hear this research is being done.
Thanks for featuring Dr Perrin Raelan, it's so great that you're getting these well known figures on your channel 😊 not sure if it's possible, but it would be amazing to see a follow-up interview with more of a deep dive on the technique - eg types of people that benefit the most, effectiveness rates, treatment stories etc. Thanks again 🙏
This describes what I experience 100%, best medical explanation for my health over the past ten years that I’ve heard. Will buy his book for sure. Thanks for sharing this!
The book for practitioners covers everything the book for patients covers and goes into much more detail about the anatomy of the brain and lymphatic system. It explains the relationship between parts of the brain and MECFS. So, you don't need both. The YT videos do a good job of explaining the self massage techniques which we are supposed to do every day between visits to the practitioner. If you can't find a practitioner in your area (check his search feature on his website) you might be able to find an osteopath who does cranial treatments and/or a massage therapist who does lymph drainage massage.
Thanks for this fantastic interview Raelan. I have personal experience of going to a Perrin practioner as part of my recovery. I have found it helpful but difficult to keep up due to the cost of treatments. It’s worth stating that the lymph drainage does involve massage of Breast tissue which not every one is comfortable with! It would be great if some more women were trained as I think this aspect of the treatment can be off putting for some. I have found the self help routine really helpful in between treatments. I think Dr. Perrins research is very important however there is more to M.E than purely structural issues, for many there is a historic trauma and the need for emotional as well as physical healing. So, as with brain training and other modalities, it seems like for many it will be a helpful piece in recovery rather than the one thing that makes a person better.
100% The 'healing' I'm doing is sooooo diverse and it's physical as well as c-ptsd...a lot of trauma in my childhood, recurring and continuous in my adulthood and then the healthcare system left me dying in 2020. I agree. Dead on. Psych between bio (and spiritual).
Incredible interview and amazing hypothesis and now theory....this resonates with me 100%....Intuitively I have been working on my neck and spine. I got dengue and bacterial infections 5 years ago....flat thoracic spine and neck....no doubt my spine was traumatized by the illness. This needs to be mainstreamed, honestly...thank you for this work Dr. Raymond Perrin 🙏
Raelan🌺, i am so so happy that you had the possibility to talk to Dr. Perrin.🤓 I am from Germany and have the luck to have a practitioner near by who learned from him. And i can tell you it really works! So its such an added value that his work goes more public now! He wrote also books where you can learn the self massage. Its something what you can do everyday even if there is no practitioner near by! I have severe me/cfs and have had more than 10 kilos of water retention in my whole system.... what goes with his theories. I lost most but still have some because i am still on my healing journey. 🙈 To all people out there: give it a try; it will definitely support your healing! 🙏🏽 wish you all the best🌺
@@majahorvat7294 actually you feel directly that the stress response goes down like after a massage. But at the end i cannot give you an answer because it depends on every person and the circumstances ( how to be able to get in the safety mode and in the self healing state ). So that is really different. And on top its not just that everyone of us is using a holistic method so you cannot say its that or that ots all together....important is the brain retraining at the same time.
@@AlinaHartkopf Ich gehe in Berlin. Man findet die Praktizierenden über die Perrin Seite. Es gibt aber auch welche, die dort nicht eingetragen sind. Also einfach ganz viel googlen "Perrin Technik". Alles Gute
You NAILED THIS - as some one who had severe covid in march 2020, frontline line, inhaled a huge viral load, but also had mold toxicity and other toxicities like metals....and also diabetic (controlled, never got sick in my life, literally). My blood sugars were 40s, nothing/no amount of glucose raised it. I was not helped in the hospital, it was AWFUL for 2 years, and no one was helped at this time. It was THE worst time in human history to need medical care. Never was any one denied care (I was, since I refused the vent. I instinctively knew, along with my critical care experience and just how political this was, etc). I did not have ANY relief no matter what I did, until I started using HBOT, IV ozone, and ultimately Apharesis. I'm now doing electroacupture, and massage...this is HUGE. I also felt a tremendous pressure in my T-spine, thinking it was thoracic outlet syndrome! This is definitely a huge piece!!! THANK YOU! The scary responses I was getting from the doctors when I was saying "I feel like I have meningitis!" My sugars were not coming up, AND autonomic nervous system damage manifests for me in several ways - I was, normally super active, adrenaline junkie, didn't need coffee, didn't drink alcohol, I worked hard, traveled, served/volunteered, etc -- I can't feel my low blood sugars - scary! Yes yes yes! I'm so glad I stumbled on this! I was a zombie for more than two years, my reaction time was horrible, I couldn't drive..... ya know what, people are blessed if they have people/partners. Excellent and all true, as some one experienced and is still. Neurologists were not even offering ANY helpful information. NONE. Just prescribing meds. Humiliating, scary.
I ran across Dr. Perrin’s work in a CFS/ME forum. This has led me down a whole new direction for treatment. Unfortunately I live in the Midwest where there are no practitioners. However, I bought the book and have been implementing his technique. Reading his book helped me to recognize that I have neck and thoracic issues. I have currently been doing a series of prolotherapy treatments for my lax ligaments in the neck. My hope is that I can improve/correct the spine issues and then along with Perrin’s techniques drain the toxins. It all makes so much sense! My daughter is a Physical Therapist. I would love to see Dr. Perrin do a clinic in the Chicago area!
Dear Raelan and Dr. Perrin, thank you for a fascinating interview. I soaked up every word and just had to finally comment :) I got Long Covid (since March 2020)...and only in the weeks & months after my complete crash where I felt so close to death in August 2022 did I learn about Long Covid and ME/CFS. After 7 months, I am now still housebound, but beyond grateful for the immense progress in recovery I have done since then, simply because I was finally equipped with the right knowledge. Raelan, you have helped me amazingly with your interviews on my journey towards healing. I thank you from my heart, you are an angel. Keep doing what you are doing, please. Thanks also to Dr. Perrin, so wonderfully explained. I am glad I have been doing several of the corner stones you've explained, but I hit a bit of a plateau, hence will research the Perrin Technique a bit more and add your advice to my daily routine with a focus on my spine and lymphatic system, which I had both not really considered. We are holistic beings, hence Dr. Perrin's decades of research and his detailed explanation into the significant role of the spine and lymphatic system makes totally sense to me. The fact that you are ready to travel to every corner in this world to train others, Dr., is a demonstration of true commitment. Thank you both!
This video gives me so much hope. I am going to read the book and give the techniques a try while looking for a Perrin Technique practitioner. Thank you so much for another great interview.
Such an interesting interview, thank you both! Like so many others who have commented, this explanation really resonates with me. I had done Osteopathic Manual Manipulation with a DO in my area to help with dysautonomia, and noticed many other unexpected improvements in other symptoms with that treatment. It wasn't this particular technique, but I wonder if it helped with lymph drainage in a similar way. I also wonder what Dr. Perrin thinks of people who recover without physical therapies. It seems like a good chunk of recovery stories center around non-physical nervous system work like neuro retraining, meditation, trauma therapy, etc. I would love to know what he thinks might be going on in these cases -- whether they are training the brain/body to make physical repairs itself, training the brain/body to function with a higher "toxic load," or something else. Part two, please!
thankyou Raelan,I just found a specialist who is working with this doctor I have heard of him for yrs but,didn’t know much.Found you recently.It brought tears to my eyes.I have been ill for 25 yrs and have lost most every part of my life with no one understanding and no support!I thankyou so much for your work and look forward to hearing and learning more about your work also!
This hits the nail on the head.... It's 100% what I am experiencing in my brain and nerves. Everything feels jammed and not able to process feelings, emotions, activity, lactate build up, PEM asf..... All of the explanation makes 100% sense! Will certainly include the practice and see how it goes
Dayum! Thank you so much Raelan for getting this guy on! I am so grateful that you have made yourself so available and present for all of us. You’re an angel.
Thank you to this Man for all his hard work on this subject as I think we thought there was no one interested . Thank u too ! Renewed faith in mankind ❤
Fascinating info and so concisely articulated. It's the first time I've heard someone so clearly explain what's happening in the body in technical terms in cases of ME/fibro/long covid. This provides much needed hope 😊
@@GuleidMuse-vg6db I had chronic fatigue for a long time (I was anemic and chronically stressed) but I was really sick for a couple years, and it ranged from mild to moderate CFS. I found nervous system regulation strategies helpful (like EFT/tapping, somatic exercise), supplementing vitamin B1, and low dose naltrexone. I still have fatigue but I'm much more functional now and I see it as a symptom of the survival "freeze" response. I'm now working with a somatic practitioner to heal my nervous system. For me, being sick happened because I have a back up of stored trauma and chronic stress, which affects my immunity. So whenever I was exposed to a virus, my system crashed hard. Low dose naltrexone, which I still take, has supported my immunity a lot.
Love Dr Perrin he is an amazing man. Sadly there is not a practioner where I live by my osteopath uses the SOT technique which has some similar elements and it helps me a lot!! Mainly it clears my brain fog instantly but helps ease some of my other symptoms too. Just wanted to share incase it helps others. Just brought Dr Perrins book and hope to try some of the techniques he shares in there 😊
Thank goodness I found this information. I'm heading to my Osteopath tomorrow. He's been trained and licensed as an Osteopath in Britain, so I'm in luck. Hope everyone else who needs this explanation and treatment has good luck and gets better soon!
Thank you for interviewing Dr Perrin. I'm fortunate to live in a part of the US where he has trained practitioners and I will have my fourth treatment this week. His book for patients is good, but his book for practitioners is the best book I've ever read about MECFS. I recommend getting the Kindle version because you'll have access to a medical dictionary to look up the terms he discusses. It's so encouraging to find a doctor who understands MECFS and has developed a treatment that will aid in recovery. If you can't find a practitioner near you, you can do the self-massage techniques that are shown on YT videos. They are the same techniques my practitioner does; she just does them better. And, BTW, I have the flat upper back that Dr Perrin describes.
@@roonbooks3227 I'm not a medical professional so I can't say. But I doubt the back would regain the curve. The purpose of the Perrin Technique is to drain "stuck" lymph out of the brain and spinal column and it seems to me that wouldn't affect the skeletal system. Perrin doesn't claim that the flat back is a cause of MECFS, but only that he has noticed a correlation.
@@roonbooks3227 the flat back is due to hypomobility mist people with CFS fybromyalgia have Asperger's or ADHD OCD and hypomobility fhtmr gene.i fit it all
@@Truerealism747 Tom, I'm compiling a bibliography of research papers that show how MECFS patients have significant differences from the controls in the research projects. Would you please give me documentation or citations for your statements that "mist people with CFS..." have Asperger's or ADHD, etc. I'd like to add them to my list. Thanks!
@@avlwnc13 it even comes up in Google type in search bar takes you to it with ADHD to.been told by rhumotoligist to basically we can't absorb b vitamins and cannot stand stress
A lot of what Dr. Perrin spoke about really resonates with me. For several reasons, I have thought that a big factor with my symptoms were lymph-related. Going to do more research first, but thankfully I live in Arizona so I most likely will be scheduling an appointment with one of the Perrin Technique practitioners here and see what happens 🤞
I highly recommend the Perrin technique! I had a wonderful osteopath I visited fortnightly in Carlisle, it took some time but it got me on my feet and began my journey to recovery, having been bed bound for some time. I followed all the other advice which Mr Perrin provides. I am not yet fully recovered but very hopeful. Thank you for bringing on Mr Perrin. He is worth his weight in gold.
Phenomenal interview and details. Best I’ve ever heard. This describes all the details of my experience in terms fo my past and what’s been working for me. I sent this to my osteopath, thank you a bajillion times!
This was very eye opening. Thank you Raelan for always bringing different aspects, and ways of Healing to us. I'm now curious to dig in deeper into this technique and apply it along with the other things that I'm applying. I know for sure I have a limphatic issue as it has been pointed out, but no one had been able to help or guide as to how to go about it in a safe and gentle way. This is sure new and helpful research. Thank you Raelan & Dr. Perrin. 🙏🏽
Ok I suppose you'll all just laugh at me for my comment, so I will steel myself 😅 Around the time that my health really unravelled, I found a lump in my breast that turned out to be a blocked lymph node. We can help drain the lymphatic system by bouncing but since I didn't have a rebound trampoline, I used my sons old pogo stick daily!! True that I used a holistic approach to getting well, so that wasn't the only thing but I no longer have a lump! I got pretty good at it too...😉😂
I believe it. I had "fibrous" lumps in both breasts and quit wearing a bra. Within 2 1/2 days, the not-so-fibrous lumps were gone, because my lymph system could work. That was 15 years ago. Kudos on coming up with a fun option to replace a rebounder! lol
Thank you so much Raelan, for this amazing interview with Dr Perrin. For me this answers every question, fits every part of my personal puzzle, right down to having sustained two head injuries, after pretty much recovering from CFS, and then seeming to slide back into previous chronic fatigue.
Very interesting! My daughter 17 has been in bed almost 5 years. She was competitive dancer and head of her class. Would love for her to have this treatment.
This just blew my mind. I feel like it explains my whole life. And why things got worse after Covid. It helps me release so much self blame that it is somehow my fault. Thank you both.
I just came across this video. Thank you so much for this information! I'm very interested in this treatment. Are there any practioners who are trained in the Perrin Technique in the Greater Toronto Area in Canada? I couldnt seem to find any on his website.
Interesting. Thank you. Had ME a long time..since 2003/4. Didnt know about the lymph problem but since mar 2020 when I had an awful flu (poss covid) my jaw lymph have been swollen...and had a sore throat. Will look into this technique more. What has helped me most is the AIP protocol followed by a permanent anti inflammatory diet...to date.
Ps. Around this time I had a motorbike accident..I was hit by a car (their fault). I wonder if that knocked out my spine which started all this? I have recently started seeing a very competent massage therapist who said that my back was twisted..and she said there is a problem..more resolved but not fully yet in the part of my back between the shoulder blades.
In hopes that this may help someone. I have MECFS. I had my blood sent to mayo clinic for fgf23.the test came back ellivated which means the phosphoris and vit d are not being regulated properly which effects kidney function. I swear I've had this all my life.failed grades 7 and 9 dropped out after gr.9 walked around life in a fog then at 21 I got an ulcer then in 93, full blown ME/CFS
I was hit in late 2003 with what I described as the worst case of the flu I've ever had in my life, some kind of virus that won't go away, I told him. My doctor at the time shrugged his shoulders and told me he couldn't test for every virus out there. I always had a suspicion that was Sars 1 that has left me disabled for 20 years now. Along comes Covid and long covid now that fits the exact pattern. Not that it would make a difference, but I wonder if it's possible to see Sars antibodies. I would make my doctor famous if the antibodies for Sars showed up in my bloodwork.
Question - so would trampoline work for us? I recently took a bungee class and I felt a little better after that, but ALSO after EBOO/Apheresis. I couldn't continue doing it though I have a neck injury, speaking of.... car accident in 2001...but the bouncing did feel therapeutic. Could and would sauna help?
Sounds super interesting and close to home, I just wonder then how all the succes stories on your channel managed to fix this biomechanical issue of the spine 🤔
It could very well be that this is but one of many mechanisms that are dysfunctional and it could be that just a certain percentage of people who have it. It’s also just a theory, so he can also still be proven wrong. But assuming what he says does indeed play a role in ME/CFS and long covid, it could very well be that the body can learn to restore these mechanisms. Ultimately it is a matter of the right hormones and the right neurotransmitters being produced in the right quantities, the right nerves being addressed, etc.
Yeah it seems there are several reasons for people having cfs. Maybe those who have this biomechanical issue are not healing at the same rate than those with problems with their symphatetic nervous system. There are lots of techniques (brain retraining) for overactive nervous system out there: DNRS, Gupta, ANS rewire, lighting process etc. So it makes sense that people who have these issues are getting better. Maybe the ones with biomechanical issues are not finding the help they need and because of this are not present in Raelan's channel. This Perrin technique is something I hadn't heard of before and I have been struggling with fatique for 8 years and studying the field a lot. Definitely got me interested because I've injured my neck and lower back multiple times through my life. Also have tried 4 different brain retraining techniques without complete resolution of symptoms (though never over 2 months in a row so maybe consistency is my problem also.) Next step for me is to try the Perrin technique and also consistent brain retraining for 6 months in a row. Lets see how it goes :)
You don't have to fix the spine to get rid of toxins in the lymphatic system. It's my guess from the testimonies I hear that anything that clears the lymphatic system of toxins, such as rebalancing the microbiome or doing keto or carnivore to eliminate inflammation, can help recovery. I've read his book and the issue is that the lymphatic system can't drain away the toxins and they're constantly recycling and causing inflammation. I may have to read it again, but that's what I remember 🙂
@@joniaikio4344 If you’ve hurt your neck and have ME, check something called craniocervical instability. Jennifer Brea from the famous ME documentary Unrest has been cured from severe ME after a surgery for craniocervical instability I believe in 2019. You can just google and you’ll find it. I also suffer from ME for the past 9 years, and just came to remember that I had a whiplash in a car accident some time before the onset of symptoms. The only symptom I had at the moment of the accident was intense pain at the back of my head, which I had on and off after the accident, but never visited the doctor. I have now booked the neurologist apointment to do some scans and see if there is some dammage. Whiplashes can cause ligaments to become loose, so the spine is not held by them correctly and it presses the vagus nerve which causes dysautonomia (ME)
Meditation helps, but not without exercise,and we have to go slow with this..’m to sensitive due do cold, which feels like torture..oh..no,no..a nice warm bath, then relaxing will due..
Hmmm, this makes me wonder about the small benign tumor (with a 15 inch "tail") that was removed from right next to my spine around the time I got severe ME/CFS. The tumor was small, but the long thin tail was wrapped around the nerves next to my spine mid-back. I wonder if that could cause a problem there?
It works for some people and not for others. Brain retraining works for some people and not for others. It relies on believing that there is nothing wrong with you physically. We need tools to discern which it is for each individual. It can't be both at the same time. I despair
My sister died of spinal meningitis..I’ve fibromyalgia..interesting.. Want to mention, I did colonics and think this drained factor p in the colon..fibromyalgia may have more factor p..why? Is there a lymphatic connection which this? The build up of factor p in the colon..Something to look into though..Some probiotics can cause either higher or lower histamine also, depending on the strain..something to explore, please consider that some probiotic can raise histamine, which can be overcome by going very slowly on fermented foods... Thanks for your kindness on this..check out Dr.Graeme, also from London
Interesting! Fact is that when I do a CE i get fast relief of both pain, fatigue and anxiety..and wondered the same after listening to this. I will book a session w a trained osteopath...happy to have found one in my town!!
Yes, the disease mechanisms hypothesised by Dr Perrin could certainly cause POTS - sadly all too common in ME. (I struggle with the complexities, but can recommend ‘The Perrin Technique’ second edition book.)
@@katebehrend9783 Thank you - yes I got the 2nd edition patient handbook and we are starting the Perrin Technique but the only person around who does it is over 400km away. It is an exhausting drive!
I’m so confused after watching this interview…because, if it’s like he explains, I don’t understand how we could heal without doing any treatment or with only doing a self massage..
Dr Perrin's theory is that the massage helps to drain toxins out of the lymphatic system. Anything that gets rid of toxins from the body will, arguably, work - that could be anti-inflammatory diets, anti-virals, balancing the microbiome, restoring the immune system. There's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. xx
@@lauratabacchini6324 hello 🙂. I read his book and I think the mechanical manipulation of the spine was to get the lymph flowing. I could be wrong. I know 2 people who recovered with his technique but it did take over a year for one of them. I could only afford the treatment for 3 months and I didn't improve. Have you heard of Jennifer Brea? She had ME/CFS but recovered after an operation on her spine. I don't know the science but I think it was something to do with how the lymph flows, I could be wrong. Worth researching. Best wishes :-)
Many ppl with MECFS have 'non restorative sleep' because we don't get enough slow wave delta sleep which is when the brain clears out the gunk it has accumulated during the day. So, we are more likely to need help getting the glymphatic system working properly, which is what Perrin's technique helps with.
@@tonipetersen5314 the 2 women I knew who recovered with the Perrin technique went for a massage once a week but had to self massage daily if possible. One lady explained the technique to her older children and they did her back for her. The younger lady who hadn't been ill for long recovered within months. The older lady recovered within 2 years. I spoke to Dr Perrin on the phone and he said the technique wasn't as successful in people who'd had the condition for a very long time. I only went for a massage once a fortnight due to costs and didn't want to keep paying for something which didn't guarantee success. I was also too weak to self massage daily. The technique is pretty simple. The masseur gently strokes over your skin, on your legs, arms, chest and back in an upward motion towards the lymph glands on your upper chest near your armpits. The massage direction on your head and face goes downwards towards your heart. The idea is to help all the lymph fluid drain into your heart for excretion. It didn't help me but as I say, I couldn't afford to try it for long. I have days now where I'm 40-50% better on d-ribose, high dose vit B1 and serotone, along with all the methyl B's, plus B12 and folate. I pop a carnitine pill now and then and low dose NAC all for supporting the methylation cycle and I'm the strongest I've felt in 3 years. I'm not fully recovered but I'm not sofa-bound 24/7 which is fantastic. Good health to you. Hope you find a remedy that works for you ☺️
I wonder if anyone has tried this consistently? And are there any specific things one can apply at home other than the shower? I bet showering three times a day for 10 minutes each isn't likely for many?
Please be patient with my “wandering” answer! There are so many pieces to my puzzle! I have a very small amount of experience so far with doing the at home lymphatic massage consistently. After I ran across Dr. Perrin, I ordered both his book for the patient and the practitioner. Honestly, I prefer the one for the practitioner, even though there is information in it that is over my head. Unfortunately there are no practitioners in my area (US Midwest). So, so far I am only doing the at home self massage. (My daughter is a Physical Therapist. I am hoping at some point to see if it would be possible to bring Dr. Perrin to the Chicago area to teach her and others in this area.) I most definitely have the lymphatic varicose “veins” that he describes. I believe that they are not as bad as before and have shown slight improvement, even though I have been inconsistent. In his book he talks of going very slowly because when you do this you are dumping out toxins. You don’t want to dump a lot all at once or you will feel really unwell. I also have the flat thoracic spine he talked about. (My daughter had mono as an adult with lingering symptoms. When she tried the self massage with me only once, the next day she felt unwell. That tells me it was effective in dumping out toxins!) I should say that I have mild to moderate (self diagnosed) CFS/ME. Doctors always brushed off my insistence that I was unwell, probably especially since I could participate in life to a degree. One doctor responding to “I always am sick and catch every cold etc” by saying that my immune system must be doing it’s job since I never came in for antibiotics for my illnesses! I limped along to for 25+ years just thinking I had a poor immune system until I ran across the term “post exertional malaise”. That was a game changer for me! Now I had something solid to research. That led me to a forum where I ran across discussion on whether there was a structural component to some people’s ME/CFS. I have a “military” neck -meaning straight - instead of correct curvature, along with the flat thoracic spine. I had two different motor vehicle accidents at 18. Then in my twenties had major stress where my body ran on adrenaline for a year and half. Then after that I caught every flu etc. I would say that is when my body couldn’t manage anymore and broke down. It makes sense to me that the reason my body doesn’t seem to drain the lymphatic properly from the brain is because of the structural issues in my neck and back. Therefore, I am doing prolotherapy in an attempt to tighten lax ligaments in my neck. (There is so much more I could say about prolotherapy and that process!) I have added daily bone broth to my diet to attempt to improve tendon/ligament health. And then the lymphatic massage to continue to slowly reduce the toxic build up in the brain. Whew! Sorry that was a lot more than you asked for! It’s is just that I am so excited that I might be finally on the right track!
I've had four treatments so far. The exercises as shown on the YT videos are the same ones my practitioner uses on me and the ones I'm supposed to do at home on my own. Only, I can't easily reach my back, so I skip that one.
@@avlwnc13 I do the back ones with a long handled lymph brush. It may not be ideal but is better than nothing. I can’t remember for sure but I may have gotten that idea from the book. How have you been feeling? Do you feel worse for a bit after a session? Do you fit the “flat thoracic” spine? Can you feel the lymphatic varicose “veins”?
Perrin's ideas are all hypothesis, nothing more. Most doctors think he is talking absolute nonsense. Perrin has conducted rudimentary studies on a handful of patients. It's troubling that they are presented as fact-unfortunately, this seems to be the norm in chronic illness: "this is why you're ill!" The truth is, we currently have a very limited knowledge about what's going on in ME/CFS patients. All these dozens of hypotheses can't all be correct, and in fact often they contradict each other. It's time for a bit of nuance and humility. BTW I happen to think the lymphatic and glymphatic systems are overlooked. I have nothing against this theory per se.
@@KatySimpsonLive I watched the full episode and have his book (which I've read) sitting opposite me on my bookshelves. Perhaps you can engage with my arguments instead of writing rubbish about me.
The germ theory, pellagra being caused by a niacin deficiency, mosquitos being the vector for yellow fever and malaria....these are just a few examples of medical hypotheses that turned out to be true. I doubt that "most doctors" think he is talking absolute nonsense because most doctors have never heard of his treatments.
I tried the Perrin Technique 10 years ago. I had a personal consultation with him. I found it exhausting to do at home - ice packs, massage and hot pads three tines a day. I didnt have the energy to do all that. I couldnt do the spinal massage as I lived on my own. It was also very expensive. I think there is something in it and it might help some people but I wasnt able to continue with it.
I'm only 6 mins in and my ears pricked when he mentioned the sympathetic system. I have had CFS and 24.7 migraines ever since having a sympathectomy 4 years ago. Nothing has helped though
@Tom Sale I wouldn't say so! I've got a history of the opposite in certain parts of my body but now I have the typical CFS fatigue, tightness and ongoing niggles/injuries
@@ellam128 where is your worst pain mines upper body ime sure thyroid has something to do with it check out Dr Sarah myhill I've had CFS before fybromyalgia
Even if all of the theory presented here behind the origins of ME-CFS/LC/fibro is genuine... that is very different from a working recovery method (as per the suggestion of the video and title). A massage + alternating cold and warm will have an overwhelming impact towards ME, LC or fibro recovery? I feel like any us of who have lived with these diseases know that to be false. Where are the reports from real people that this made a true difference in their recovery? Perrin is also clever to combine his 'technique' with suggestions that are genuinely effective, such as pacing, stress management and retraining the nervous system. I don't see how the Perrin technique actually makes a difference, but his website does show a business chain selling books, treatments, and setting up franchising. With the head of that business here using a lot of scientific vernacular to suggest a proven recovery method. 'Proven' is a _very_ strong term to throw around when it comes to these diseases. To use it when there seems to be no true proof, imo, borders on malicious. My 2 cents. I suppose if he's helping people in a holistic way with tools like pacing, stress management, diet, rewiring etc then that's a good thing, even if it's a paid service. But the Perrin technique to me seems false. And it is the crux of the argument here. After all, he quotes the science to show that lymphatic disruption is a key cause of these diseases, then suggests that his technique alleviates that disruption. And there you have what in business is called a unique selling point, aka a product to sell. (Lastly, if you look around the cfs and long covid subreddits, there are plenty of reports of people trying Perrin. Within these I have not seen people being cured and pointing to the technique for it. What I did see was a lot of folks trying it, it not working, and it being expensive.)
I have read the entire long version of his book through once and gone back and reread other portions multiple times. When you read his book he states that 15% of people using his methods fully recovered using this technique alone, while the for the rest it is used in conjunction with other “pieces of the puzzle”.
@@neron8497 If you were one of the 15% that fully recovered using this method alone, I imagine you would consider it a proven method. In science you have the double blind studies which most consider the gold standard, then you have individual case studies. Both have their value. For me, at this point, I don’t have the option of spending money on a practitioner as there are none in my area. So the only outlay of dollars is buying the book. So trying lymphatic massage costs me nothing else but time invested. I like that it certainly is not going to harm me even if it I try it and it doesn’t help!
@@marychamberlin2599 Certainly! If those people have been able to recover just with this method, that's fantastic and I agree with the wording there. It's just the way this video title is worded that suggest a larger percentage of people it'd apply to. But that is separate from the good that is there. In your case, I hope you are one of the people for whom this truly works. Wish you the best of luck.
Osteopathy is the discipline of (theoretically) treating disease by stimulating the body to heal itself, with a focus on manipulating muscles and bones. The idea that the body can be cured by manipulation has never been demonstrated in any scientific journal and is essentially woo.
Please come to Palestine. The doctors there are so lacking in awareness and the least they can do is give patients some validation and believe them and they are not doing that.
What about over-application of ice on my neck and head for 2 decades? I’ve only just learned that it slows down the cells and turns them into a jelly like consistency? That must be really great for the lymphatic system. 🥹 I’d really appreciate your comments on this subject. THANKS SO MUCH!!
He has been treating my daughter for the past 2 years and she has gone from being bed bound and also multiple neurological symptoms to fully independent and going to start school again
that is beautiful
So what he subscribed
@@popokatapetl6995it’s in his books
I didn’t have a trained practitioner in my area but I bought the book. I took the book to my chiropractor and asked if he would read the book and see if he would try the technique on me. He agreed and it helped me so much! I did the daily exercises and lymphatic massage and went to the chiropractor weekly. Between Perrin technique and DNRS brain retraining I am totally recovered from long Covid! So thankful for this man’s dedication to helping patients with ME and long Covid! Thank you so much!❤️
It’s great to hear story’s like this. I’m giving it a try asap seen as I’ve been suffering since cfs since having covid 4 years ago
Hi very happy for you ! What were your symptoms please ? I am long covid since 2020 and suffering a lot… thanks
How long did it take you?
Thank you so much for not intrupting him while he was explaining you're truly a professional interviewer !!!
Greatly appreciated !!! ❤
My thoughts exactly, well done! 💫
…well he didn’t really give her a chance 🤦♀️ I couldn’t get through this video listening to this man doing his monologue with the *female* interviewer never getting so much as a brief pause to ask for a clarification or ask a follow up question. 😤
You can't satisfy everyone. There's always somebody that has to complain.
I work as a GP in the U.K. and this is an eye opener video! I have myself been under rheumatologist in immune suppression for 6yrs since “a Bug” triggered my symptoms. This video could be a game changer for me.
Check out " the open medicine foundation" too.
Like any illness , there's many subtypes to this illness even tho they present in similar ways.
You could have eds as an underlying pathology and mast cell activation syndrome.
But the theory Dr Davies, creator of the human genome has put forward is " the metabolic trap". He thinks it's reversible.
This guy is trying to save his very sick son.
He was working for standford until ten years. Like I say co creator of the human genome project. A bonified genius.
Look him up
Was it?
This is so interesting. I have had CFS for 7 years and have always had very little movement available in my thoracic spine. 7 months ago I started seeing an osteopath, since I've started pilates and am focusing specifically on my spinal mobility and my health has improved vastly. I have gone from approx 30% to 70-80% recovered. So exciting to hear this research is being done.
What Pilates are you doing? Are you attending a class or doing a video at home?
Wow. Were you mild moderate or severe earlier
It would be absolutely awesome if you did a follow up interview where Dr. Perrin is able to answer questions. 🙏🙏
Thanks for featuring Dr Perrin Raelan, it's so great that you're getting these well known figures on your channel 😊 not sure if it's possible, but it would be amazing to see a follow-up interview with more of a deep dive on the technique - eg types of people that benefit the most, effectiveness rates, treatment stories etc. Thanks again 🙏
This describes what I experience 100%, best medical explanation for my health over the past ten years that I’ve heard. Will buy his book for sure. Thanks for sharing this!
Steve, I've read both of Dr P's books. The one for patients is good, but the one for practitioners is excellent. See my comments above .
@@avlwnc13 thanks for the tip! Just to clarify…if I get the practitioner book will I not need the patient one? Or should I get both?
The book for practitioners covers everything the book for patients covers and goes into much more detail about the anatomy of the brain and lymphatic system. It explains the relationship between parts of the brain and MECFS. So, you don't need both. The YT videos do a good job of explaining the self massage techniques which we are supposed to do every day between visits to the practitioner. If you can't find a practitioner in your area (check his search feature on his website) you might be able to find an osteopath who does cranial treatments and/or a massage therapist who does lymph drainage massage.
@@avlwnc13 fab, thanks again
Thanks for this fantastic interview Raelan. I have personal experience of going to a Perrin practioner as part of my recovery. I have found it helpful but difficult to keep up due to the cost of treatments. It’s worth stating that the lymph drainage does involve massage of Breast tissue which not every one is comfortable with! It would be great if some more women were trained as I think this aspect of the treatment can be off putting for some. I have found the self help routine really helpful in between treatments. I think Dr. Perrins research is very important however there is more to M.E than purely structural issues, for many there is a historic trauma and the need for emotional as well as physical healing. So, as with brain training and other modalities, it seems like for many it will be a helpful piece in recovery rather than the one thing that makes a person better.
100% The 'healing' I'm doing is sooooo diverse and it's physical as well as c-ptsd...a lot of trauma in my childhood, recurring and continuous in my adulthood and then the healthcare system left me dying in 2020. I agree. Dead on. Psych between bio (and spiritual).
How many time a week did you have to go for treatments?
@@tonipetersen5314 I was going weekly, then fortnightly, then monthly. I have stopped completely now.
@@nathalieforster9955 if I don't have access to practioner , what exercises can I do at home
@@kala9907 If you search for Perrin technique self-massage videos on TH-cam there is some good stuff up there to learn the technique.
This is fascinating! Listening to it twice in small segments was definitely a good idea - so much wonderful info!
Glad it was helpful, Tammy! ❤️
I have had ME and dysautonomia for 7+ years and have nearly given up hope. I cannot wait to get some lymphatic drainage using this technique.
Incredible interview and amazing hypothesis and now theory....this resonates with me 100%....Intuitively I have been working on my neck and spine. I got dengue and bacterial infections 5 years ago....flat thoracic spine and neck....no doubt my spine was traumatized by the illness. This needs to be mainstreamed, honestly...thank you for this work Dr. Raymond Perrin 🙏
What a brillant doctor and beautiful mind. Lots of respect, thankfullness and hats of to you, sir!
Raelan🌺, i am so so happy that you had the possibility to talk to Dr. Perrin.🤓 I am from Germany and have the luck to have a practitioner near by who learned from him. And i can tell you it really works! So its such an added value that his work goes more public now! He wrote also books where you can learn the self massage. Its something what you can do everyday even if there is no practitioner near by! I have severe me/cfs and have had more than 10 kilos of water retention in my whole system.... what goes with his theories. I lost most but still have some because i am still on my healing journey. 🙈 To all people out there: give it a try; it will definitely support your healing! 🙏🏽 wish you all the best🌺
How quick have you noticed improvements? How much improvement? Thanks
@@majahorvat7294 actually you feel directly that the stress response goes down like after a massage. But at the end i cannot give you an answer because it depends on every person and the circumstances ( how to be able to get in the safety mode and in the self healing state ). So that is really different. And on top its not just that everyone of us is using a holistic method so you cannot say its that or that ots all together....important is the brain retraining at the same time.
Hi! Wo in Deutschland warst du? Wohne in Köln und suche einen Therapeuten. Danke und liebe Grüße, Alina
@@AlinaHartkopf Ich gehe in Berlin. Man findet die Praktizierenden über die Perrin Seite. Es gibt aber auch welche, die dort nicht eingetragen sind. Also einfach ganz viel googlen "Perrin Technik". Alles Gute
You NAILED THIS - as some one who had severe covid in march 2020, frontline line, inhaled a huge viral load, but also had mold toxicity and other toxicities like metals....and also diabetic (controlled, never got sick in my life, literally). My blood sugars were 40s, nothing/no amount of glucose raised it. I was not helped in the hospital, it was AWFUL for 2 years, and no one was helped at this time. It was THE worst time in human history to need medical care. Never was any one denied care (I was, since I refused the vent. I instinctively knew, along with my critical care experience and just how political this was, etc). I did not have ANY relief no matter what I did, until I started using HBOT, IV ozone, and ultimately Apharesis. I'm now doing electroacupture, and massage...this is HUGE. I also felt a tremendous pressure in my T-spine, thinking it was thoracic outlet syndrome! This is definitely a huge piece!!! THANK YOU! The scary responses I was getting from the doctors when I was saying "I feel like I have meningitis!" My sugars were not coming up, AND autonomic nervous system damage manifests for me in several ways - I was, normally super active, adrenaline junkie, didn't need coffee, didn't drink alcohol, I worked hard, traveled, served/volunteered, etc -- I can't feel my low blood sugars - scary! Yes yes yes! I'm so glad I stumbled on this! I was a zombie for more than two years, my reaction time was horrible, I couldn't drive..... ya know what, people are blessed if they have people/partners. Excellent and all true, as some one experienced and is still. Neurologists were not even offering ANY helpful information. NONE. Just prescribing meds. Humiliating, scary.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. You’re an inspiration to many of us. How are you doing now? Hoping you’re well 🙏
I ran across Dr. Perrin’s work in a CFS/ME forum. This has led me down a whole new direction for treatment. Unfortunately I live in the Midwest where there are no practitioners. However, I bought the book and have been implementing his technique. Reading his book helped me to recognize that I have neck and thoracic issues. I have currently been doing a series of prolotherapy treatments for my lax ligaments in the neck. My hope is that I can improve/correct the spine issues and then along with Perrin’s techniques drain the toxins. It all makes so much sense!
My daughter is a Physical Therapist. I would love to see Dr. Perrin do a clinic in the Chicago area!
Same. The Chicago area would benefit me as well.
Dear Raelan and Dr. Perrin, thank you for a fascinating interview. I soaked up every word and just had to finally comment :) I got Long Covid (since March 2020)...and only in the weeks & months after my complete crash where I felt so close to death in August 2022 did I learn about Long Covid and ME/CFS. After 7 months, I am now still housebound, but beyond grateful for the immense progress in recovery I have done since then, simply because I was finally equipped with the right knowledge. Raelan, you have helped me amazingly with your interviews on my journey towards healing. I thank you from my heart, you are an angel. Keep doing what you are doing, please.
Thanks also to Dr. Perrin, so wonderfully explained. I am glad I have been doing several of the corner stones you've explained, but I hit a bit of a plateau, hence will research the Perrin Technique a bit more and add your advice to my daily routine with a focus on my spine and lymphatic system, which I had both not really considered. We are holistic beings, hence Dr. Perrin's decades of research and his detailed explanation into the significant role of the spine and lymphatic system makes totally sense to me. The fact that you are ready to travel to every corner in this world to train others, Dr., is a demonstration of true commitment. Thank you both!
This video gives me so much hope. I am going to read the book and give the techniques a try while looking for a Perrin Technique practitioner. Thank you so much for another great interview.
Such an interesting interview, thank you both! Like so many others who have commented, this explanation really resonates with me. I had done Osteopathic Manual Manipulation with a DO in my area to help with dysautonomia, and noticed many other unexpected improvements in other symptoms with that treatment. It wasn't this particular technique, but I wonder if it helped with lymph drainage in a similar way.
I also wonder what Dr. Perrin thinks of people who recover without physical therapies. It seems like a good chunk of recovery stories center around non-physical nervous system work like neuro retraining, meditation, trauma therapy, etc. I would love to know what he thinks might be going on in these cases -- whether they are training the brain/body to make physical repairs itself, training the brain/body to function with a higher "toxic load," or something else. Part two, please!
thankyou Raelan,I just found a specialist who is working with this doctor I have heard of him for yrs but,didn’t know much.Found you recently.It brought tears to my eyes.I have been ill for 25 yrs and have lost most every part of my life with no one understanding and no support!I thankyou so much for your work and look forward to hearing and learning more about your work also!
Did it help you. I checked a doctor here and it is very expensive to go. I tried everything earlier, now i have doubts to invest in anything new
Wow!! This was incredible. Could be the missing piece of my recovery puzzle
This hits the nail on the head.... It's 100% what I am experiencing in my brain and nerves. Everything feels jammed and not able to process feelings, emotions, activity, lactate build up, PEM asf..... All of the explanation makes 100% sense! Will certainly include the practice and see how it goes
Dayum! Thank you so much Raelan for getting this guy on! I am so grateful that you have made yourself so available and present for all of us. You’re an angel.
Glad I could help! 🧡🧡
Amazing! I’ve just booked my first consultation this Saturday, can’t wait!
Thank you to this Man for all his hard work on this subject as I think we thought there was no one interested . Thank u too ! Renewed faith in mankind ❤
Fascinating info and so concisely articulated. It's the first time I've heard someone so clearly explain what's happening in the body in technical terms in cases of ME/fibro/long covid. This provides much needed hope 😊
This was so interesting. When I had CFS/ME, it definitely felt like I was backed up in some way. Things weren't flowing at all.
Hi Toonasa, how long did you suffer from it, and what has helped you?
@@GuleidMuse-vg6db I had chronic fatigue for a long time (I was anemic and chronically stressed) but I was really sick for a couple years, and it ranged from mild to moderate CFS. I found nervous system regulation strategies helpful (like EFT/tapping, somatic exercise), supplementing vitamin B1, and low dose naltrexone. I still have fatigue but I'm much more functional now and I see it as a symptom of the survival "freeze" response. I'm now working with a somatic practitioner to heal my nervous system. For me, being sick happened because I have a back up of stored trauma and chronic stress, which affects my immunity. So whenever I was exposed to a virus, my system crashed hard. Low dose naltrexone, which I still take, has supported my immunity a lot.
Love Dr Perrin he is an amazing man. Sadly there is not a practioner where I live by my osteopath uses the SOT technique which has some similar elements and it helps me a lot!! Mainly it clears my brain fog instantly but helps ease some of my other symptoms too. Just wanted to share incase it helps others. Just brought Dr Perrins book and hope to try some of the techniques he shares in there 😊
Nice to see some actual science on this subject.
Thank goodness I found this information. I'm heading to my Osteopath tomorrow. He's been trained and licensed as an Osteopath in Britain, so I'm in luck. Hope everyone else who needs this explanation and treatment has good luck and gets better soon!
Does he do this where in uk
Absolutely Brilliant!!! I have a background in Science so this made so much sense!! Thank you Raelen and Dr Perrin!😊
Thank you for interviewing Dr Perrin. I'm fortunate to live in a part of the US where he has trained practitioners and I will have my fourth treatment this week. His book for patients is good, but his book for practitioners is the best book I've ever read about MECFS. I recommend getting the Kindle version because you'll have access to a medical dictionary to look up the terms he discusses. It's so encouraging to find a doctor who understands MECFS and has developed a treatment that will aid in recovery. If you can't find a practitioner near you, you can do the self-massage techniques that are shown on YT videos. They are the same techniques my practitioner does; she just does them better. And, BTW, I have the flat upper back that Dr Perrin describes.
I too have the flat back.
So question,, does/will the flat back eventually go back to a curved back after treatment?
@@roonbooks3227 I'm not a medical professional so I can't say. But I doubt the back would regain the curve. The purpose of the Perrin Technique is to drain "stuck" lymph out of the brain and spinal column and it seems to me that wouldn't affect the skeletal system. Perrin doesn't claim that the flat back is a cause of MECFS, but only that he has noticed a correlation.
@@roonbooks3227 the flat back is due to hypomobility mist people with CFS fybromyalgia have Asperger's or ADHD OCD and hypomobility fhtmr gene.i fit it all
@@Truerealism747 Tom, I'm compiling a bibliography of research papers that show how MECFS patients have significant differences from the controls in the research projects. Would you please give me documentation or citations for your statements that "mist people with CFS..." have Asperger's or ADHD, etc. I'd like to add them to my list. Thanks!
@@avlwnc13 it even comes up in Google type in search bar takes you to it with ADHD to.been told by rhumotoligist to basically we can't absorb b vitamins and cannot stand stress
A lot of what Dr. Perrin spoke about really resonates with me. For several reasons, I have thought that a big factor with my symptoms were lymph-related. Going to do more research first, but thankfully I live in Arizona so I most likely will be scheduling an appointment with one of the Perrin Technique practitioners here and see what happens 🤞
I highly recommend the Perrin technique! I had a wonderful osteopath I visited fortnightly in Carlisle, it took some time but it got me on my feet and began my journey to recovery, having been bed bound for some time. I followed all the other advice which Mr Perrin provides. I am not yet fully recovered but very hopeful. Thank you for bringing on Mr Perrin. He is worth his weight in gold.
You are so lucky to have access to a wonderful and properly trained osteopath. So happy to hear of your progress!! x
Phenomenal interview and details. Best I’ve ever heard. This describes all the details of my experience in terms fo my past and what’s been working for me. I sent this to my osteopath, thank you a bajillion times!
This was very eye opening. Thank you Raelan for always bringing different aspects, and ways of Healing to us. I'm now curious to dig in deeper into this technique and apply it along with the other things that I'm applying. I know for sure I have a limphatic issue as it has been pointed out, but no one had been able to help or guide as to how to go about it in a safe and gentle way. This is sure new and helpful research. Thank you Raelan & Dr. Perrin. 🙏🏽
Ok I suppose you'll all just laugh at me for my comment, so I will steel myself 😅 Around the time that my health really unravelled, I found a lump in my breast that turned out to be a blocked lymph node. We can help drain the lymphatic system by bouncing but since I didn't have a rebound trampoline, I used my sons old pogo stick daily!! True that I used a holistic approach to getting well, so that wasn't the only thing but I no longer have a lump! I got pretty good at it too...😉😂
I believe it. I had "fibrous" lumps in both breasts and quit wearing a bra. Within 2 1/2 days, the not-so-fibrous lumps were gone, because my lymph system could work. That was 15 years ago. Kudos on coming up with a fun option to replace a rebounder! lol
@@pixievincent2478 wow that happened so fast for you, amazing! Haha thanks xx
@@valentinaruseva7612 good for you, so worth trying natural alternatives.
I’m not laughing
This is fantastic thankyou! Are there any Perrin Technique practicioners in New Zealand?
This i s gold to me.. was pre med.. see io Drs here and none understand.. no clinic.. but wonderful hope here, God bless and will get the book🙏❤️😺
Thank you for sharing your discovery!
I have hope, finally!
Thank you so much Raelan, for this amazing interview with Dr Perrin. For me this answers every question, fits every part of my personal puzzle, right down to having sustained two head injuries, after pretty much recovering from CFS, and then seeming to slide back into previous chronic fatigue.
My god this makes so much sense! It explains a lot.
Very interesting! My daughter 17 has been in bed almost 5 years. She was competitive dancer and head of her class. Would love for her to have this treatment.
Wow, absolutely wonderful interview! Thank you very much!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This just blew my mind. I feel like it explains my whole life. And why things got worse after Covid. It helps me release so much self blame that it is somehow my fault. Thank you both.
I hope this can help me. I have painful lymphnodes and long covid. I also felt a lump in my throat exactly where the doctor described
I have a compressed spine exactly where he described. Been a problem for years. Also have very elevated cytokines...
Can you please come to Western Australia
I just came across this video. Thank you so much for this information! I'm very interested in this treatment. Are there any practioners who are trained in the Perrin Technique in the Greater Toronto Area in Canada? I couldnt seem to find any on his website.
Interesting. Thank you. Had ME a long time..since 2003/4. Didnt know about the lymph problem but since mar 2020 when I had an awful flu (poss covid) my jaw lymph have been swollen...and had a sore throat. Will look into this technique more. What has helped me most is the AIP protocol followed by a permanent anti inflammatory diet...to date.
Ps. Around this time I had a motorbike accident..I was hit by a car (their fault). I wonder if that knocked out my spine which started all this? I have recently started seeing a very competent massage therapist who said that my back was twisted..and she said there is a problem..more resolved but not fully yet in the part of my back between the shoulder blades.
Thank you both!! 🙏👏
Omg! I have been wondering about the this, feels like the missing link in my journey! Any practitioners in New Zealand?
In hopes that this may help someone. I have MECFS. I had my blood sent to mayo clinic for fgf23.the test came back ellivated which means the phosphoris and vit d are not being regulated properly which effects kidney function. I swear I've had this all my life.failed grades 7 and 9 dropped out after gr.9 walked around life in a fog then at 21 I got an ulcer then in 93, full blown ME/CFS
Brilliant!!
I was hit in late 2003 with what I described as the worst case of the flu I've ever had in my life, some kind of virus that won't go away, I told him. My doctor at the time shrugged his shoulders and told me he couldn't test for every virus out there. I always had a suspicion that was Sars 1 that has left me disabled for 20 years now. Along comes Covid and long covid now that fits the exact pattern. Not that it would make a difference, but I wonder if it's possible to see Sars antibodies. I would make my doctor famous if the antibodies for Sars showed up in my bloodwork.
Question - so would trampoline work for us? I recently took a bungee class and I felt a little better after that, but ALSO after EBOO/Apheresis. I couldn't continue doing it though I have a neck injury, speaking of.... car accident in 2001...but the bouncing did feel therapeutic. Could and would sauna help?
The trampoline apparently not - at least not until you're got the reverse flow of lymph addressed.
very interesting
Sounds super interesting and close to home, I just wonder then how all the succes stories on your channel managed to fix this biomechanical issue of the spine 🤔
It could very well be that this is but one of many mechanisms that are dysfunctional and it could be that just a certain percentage of people who have it. It’s also just a theory, so he can also still be proven wrong. But assuming what he says does indeed play a role in ME/CFS and long covid, it could very well be that the body can learn to restore these mechanisms. Ultimately it is a matter of the right hormones and the right neurotransmitters being produced in the right quantities, the right nerves being addressed, etc.
Yeah it seems there are several reasons for people having cfs. Maybe those who have this biomechanical issue are not healing at the same rate than those with problems with their symphatetic nervous system. There are lots of techniques (brain retraining) for overactive nervous system out there: DNRS, Gupta, ANS rewire, lighting process etc. So it makes sense that people who have these issues are getting better. Maybe the ones with biomechanical issues are not finding the help they need and because of this are not present in Raelan's channel. This Perrin technique is something I hadn't heard of before and I have been struggling with fatique for 8 years and studying the field a lot. Definitely got me interested because I've injured my neck and lower back multiple times through my life. Also have tried 4 different brain retraining techniques without complete resolution of symptoms (though never over 2 months in a row so maybe consistency is my problem also.) Next step for me is to try the Perrin technique and also consistent brain retraining for 6 months in a row. Lets see how it goes :)
You don't have to fix the spine to get rid of toxins in the lymphatic system. It's my guess from the testimonies I hear that anything that clears the lymphatic system of toxins, such as rebalancing the microbiome or doing keto or carnivore to eliminate inflammation, can help recovery. I've read his book and the issue is that the lymphatic system can't drain away the toxins and they're constantly recycling and causing inflammation. I may have to read it again, but that's what I remember 🙂
@@joniaikio4344 I like Gupta. I just have to make myself do it.
@@joniaikio4344 If you’ve hurt your neck and have ME, check something called craniocervical instability. Jennifer Brea from the famous ME documentary Unrest has been cured from severe ME after a surgery for craniocervical instability I believe in 2019. You can just google and you’ll find it. I also suffer from ME for the past 9 years, and just came to remember that I had a whiplash in a car accident some time before the onset of symptoms. The only symptom I had at the moment of the accident was intense pain at the back of my head, which I had on and off after the accident, but never visited the doctor. I have now booked the neurologist apointment to do some scans and see if there is some dammage. Whiplashes can cause ligaments to become loose, so the spine is not held by them correctly and it presses the vagus nerve which causes dysautonomia (ME)
Meditation helps, but not without exercise,and we have to go slow with this..’m to sensitive due do cold, which feels like torture..oh..no,no..a nice warm bath, then relaxing will due..
Hallo realen thank you for your help god bless you
Where can I contact him please am from Germany
The Perrin Clinic in Manchester, but there are practitioners in Europe too.
Hmmm, this makes me wonder about the small benign tumor (with a 15 inch "tail") that was removed from right next to my spine around the time I got severe ME/CFS. The tumor was small, but the long thin tail was wrapped around the nerves next to my spine mid-back. I wonder if that could cause a problem there?
Doesnt sleep wash the brain every night? I have long covid and cant get deep sleep so this makes kinda sense
Yes this fits perfectly with Ray's theory. See his interview with Ari Whitten if you have time.
It works for some people and not for others.
Brain retraining works for some people and not for others. It relies on believing that there is nothing wrong with you physically.
We need tools to discern which it is for each individual. It can't be both at the same time. I despair
@@valentinaruseva7612 that's a really helpful perspective, thank you
@@valentinaruseva7612 Bingo. x
My sister died of spinal meningitis..I’ve fibromyalgia..interesting..
Want to mention, I did colonics and think this drained factor p in the colon..fibromyalgia may have more factor p..why? Is there a lymphatic connection which this? The build up of factor p in the colon..Something to look into though..Some probiotics can cause either higher or lower histamine also, depending on the strain..something to explore, please consider that some probiotic can raise histamine, which can be overcome by going very slowly on fermented foods... Thanks for your kindness on this..check out Dr.Graeme, also from London
Interesting! Fact is that when I do a CE i get fast relief of both pain, fatigue and anxiety..and wondered the same after listening to this. I will book a session w a trained osteopath...happy to have found one in my town!!
How is he different than a chiropractor?
Does this cause POTS too? My 11 yo has POTS and she has a lot of lymph issues....
interestingly, she has a syrinx in her thoracic spine....as well as vTOS so that system is blocked if her arm is raised at all.
Ottawa, ON Canada needs someone please!!!
Yes, the disease mechanisms hypothesised by Dr Perrin could certainly cause POTS - sadly all too common in ME. (I struggle with the complexities, but can recommend ‘The Perrin Technique’ second edition book.)
@@katebehrend9783 Thank you - yes I got the 2nd edition patient handbook and we are starting the Perrin Technique but the only person around who does it is over 400km away. It is an exhausting drive!
How about Ginko Biloba?
Hello.., can somebody tell me how to find the perrin point on the female body??
Does anyone of you undergo lumbal ponction because of CFS symptoms ?
I’m so confused after watching this interview…because, if it’s like he explains, I don’t understand how we could heal without doing any treatment or with only doing a self massage..
Dr Perrin's theory is that the massage helps to drain toxins out of the lymphatic system. Anything that gets rid of toxins from the body will, arguably, work - that could be anti-inflammatory diets, anti-virals, balancing the microbiome, restoring the immune system. There's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. xx
@@lauratabacchini6324 hello 🙂. I read his book and I think the mechanical manipulation of the spine was to get the lymph flowing. I could be wrong. I know 2 people who recovered with his technique but it did take over a year for one of them. I could only afford the treatment for 3 months and I didn't improve. Have you heard of Jennifer Brea? She had ME/CFS but recovered after an operation on her spine. I don't know the science but I think it was something to do with how the lymph flows, I could be wrong. Worth researching. Best wishes :-)
Many ppl with MECFS have 'non restorative sleep' because we don't get enough slow wave delta sleep which is when the brain clears out the gunk it has accumulated during the day. So, we are more likely to need help getting the glymphatic system working properly, which is what Perrin's technique helps with.
@@marisademore468 how many times a week do you have to go?
@@tonipetersen5314 the 2 women I knew who recovered with the Perrin technique went for a massage once a week but had to self massage daily if possible. One lady explained the technique to her older children and they did her back for her. The younger lady who hadn't been ill for long recovered within months. The older lady recovered within 2 years. I spoke to Dr Perrin on the phone and he said the technique wasn't as successful in people who'd had the condition for a very long time. I only went for a massage once a fortnight due to costs and didn't want to keep paying for something which didn't guarantee success. I was also too weak to self massage daily. The technique is pretty simple. The masseur gently strokes over your skin, on your legs, arms, chest and back in an upward motion towards the lymph glands on your upper chest near your armpits. The massage direction on your head and face goes downwards towards your heart. The idea is to help all the lymph fluid drain into your heart for excretion. It didn't help me but as I say, I couldn't afford to try it for long. I have days now where I'm 40-50% better on d-ribose, high dose vit B1 and serotone, along with all the methyl B's, plus B12 and folate. I pop a carnitine pill now and then and low dose NAC all for supporting the methylation cycle and I'm the strongest I've felt in 3 years. I'm not fully recovered but I'm not sofa-bound 24/7 which is fantastic. Good health to you. Hope you find a remedy that works for you ☺️
Does this work for 100% of patients?
No. I tried it for many months and it didn't work but I know a couple of people for whom it has been the miracle cure.
Where in Germany? Please please
Check on his website, you can find all the pratictioners
I wonder if anyone has tried this consistently? And are there any specific things one can apply at home other than the shower? I bet showering three times a day for 10 minutes each isn't likely for many?
Dr. Perrin’s book for patients details the step by step lymph drainage method to be done daily. You can also find videos demonstrating it.
@@marychamberlin2599thanks. Have you had an experience with it?
Please be patient with my “wandering” answer! There are so many pieces to my puzzle!
I have a very small amount of experience so far with doing the at home lymphatic massage consistently. After I ran across Dr. Perrin, I ordered both his book for the patient and the practitioner. Honestly, I prefer the one for the practitioner, even though there is information in it that is over my head. Unfortunately there are no practitioners in my area (US Midwest). So, so far I am only doing the at home self massage. (My daughter is a Physical Therapist. I am hoping at some point to see if it would be possible to bring Dr. Perrin to the Chicago area to teach her and others in this area.)
I most definitely have the lymphatic varicose “veins” that he describes. I believe that they are not as bad as before and have shown slight improvement, even though I have been inconsistent. In his book he talks of going very slowly because when you do this you are dumping out toxins. You don’t want to dump a lot all at once or you will feel really unwell. I also have the flat thoracic spine he talked about. (My daughter had mono as an adult with lingering symptoms. When she tried the self massage with me only once, the next day she felt unwell. That tells me it was effective in dumping out toxins!)
I should say that I have mild to moderate (self diagnosed) CFS/ME. Doctors always brushed off my insistence that I was unwell, probably especially since I could participate in life to a degree. One doctor responding to “I always am sick and catch every cold etc” by saying that my immune system must be doing it’s job since I never came in for antibiotics for my illnesses! I limped along to for 25+ years just thinking I had a poor immune system until I ran across the term “post exertional malaise”. That was a game changer for me! Now I had something solid to research. That led me to a forum where I ran across discussion on whether there was a structural component to some people’s ME/CFS. I have a “military” neck -meaning straight - instead of correct curvature, along with the flat thoracic spine. I had two different motor vehicle accidents at 18. Then in my twenties had major stress where my body ran on adrenaline for a year and half. Then after that I caught every flu etc. I would say that is when my body couldn’t manage anymore and broke down.
It makes sense to me that the reason my body doesn’t seem to drain the lymphatic properly from the brain is because of the structural issues in my neck and back. Therefore, I am doing prolotherapy in an attempt to tighten lax ligaments in my neck. (There is so much more I could say about prolotherapy and that process!) I have added daily bone broth to my diet to attempt to improve tendon/ligament health. And then the lymphatic massage to continue to slowly reduce the toxic build up in the brain.
Whew! Sorry that was a lot more than you asked for! It’s is just that I am so excited that I might be finally on the right track!
I've had four treatments so far. The exercises as shown on the YT videos are the same ones my practitioner uses on me and the ones I'm supposed to do at home on my own. Only, I can't easily reach my back, so I skip that one.
@@avlwnc13 I do the back ones with a long handled lymph brush. It may not be ideal but is better than nothing. I can’t remember for sure but I may have gotten that idea from the book.
How have you been feeling? Do you feel worse for a bit after a session? Do you fit the “flat thoracic” spine? Can you feel the lymphatic varicose “veins”?
Perrin's ideas are all hypothesis, nothing more. Most doctors think he is talking absolute nonsense. Perrin has conducted rudimentary studies on a handful of patients. It's troubling that they are presented as fact-unfortunately, this seems to be the norm in chronic illness: "this is why you're ill!" The truth is, we currently have a very limited knowledge about what's going on in ME/CFS patients. All these dozens of hypotheses can't all be correct, and in fact often they contradict each other. It's time for a bit of nuance and humility.
BTW I happen to think the lymphatic and glymphatic systems are overlooked. I have nothing against this theory per se.
I would highly recommend that you read his work and actually listen to this episode before you make an ignorant comment like this.
@@KatySimpsonLive I watched the full episode and have his book (which I've read) sitting opposite me on my bookshelves.
Perhaps you can engage with my arguments instead of writing rubbish about me.
Drop your Twitter handle and we can have an open discussion about Perrin's ideas.
The germ theory, pellagra being caused by a niacin deficiency, mosquitos being the vector for yellow fever and malaria....these are just a few examples of medical hypotheses that turned out to be true. I doubt that "most doctors" think he is talking absolute nonsense because most doctors have never heard of his treatments.
I tried the Perrin Technique 10 years ago. I had a personal consultation with him. I found it exhausting to do at home - ice packs, massage and hot pads three tines a day. I didnt have the energy to do all that. I couldnt do the spinal massage as I lived on my own. It was also very expensive. I think there is something in it and it might help some people but I wasnt able to continue with it.
I'm only 6 mins in and my ears pricked when he mentioned the sympathetic system. I have had CFS and 24.7 migraines ever since having a sympathectomy 4 years ago. Nothing has helped though
Do you have hypomobility?
@Tom Sale I wouldn't say so! I've got a history of the opposite in certain parts of my body but now I have the typical CFS fatigue, tightness and ongoing niggles/injuries
@@ellam128 where is your worst pain mines upper body ime sure thyroid has something to do with it check out Dr Sarah myhill I've had CFS before fybromyalgia
@@ellam128 or is it still me
Even if all of the theory presented here behind the origins of ME-CFS/LC/fibro is genuine... that is very different from a working recovery method (as per the suggestion of the video and title).
A massage + alternating cold and warm will have an overwhelming impact towards ME, LC or fibro recovery? I feel like any us of who have lived with these diseases know that to be false.
Where are the reports from real people that this made a true difference in their recovery?
Perrin is also clever to combine his 'technique' with suggestions that are genuinely effective, such as pacing, stress management and retraining the nervous system.
I don't see how the Perrin technique actually makes a difference, but his website does show a business chain selling books, treatments, and setting up franchising. With the head of that business here using a lot of scientific vernacular to suggest a proven recovery method.
'Proven' is a _very_ strong term to throw around when it comes to these diseases. To use it when there seems to be no true proof, imo, borders on malicious. My 2 cents.
I suppose if he's helping people in a holistic way with tools like pacing, stress management, diet, rewiring etc then that's a good thing, even if it's a paid service. But the Perrin technique to me seems false.
And it is the crux of the argument here. After all, he quotes the science to show that lymphatic disruption is a key cause of these diseases, then suggests that his technique alleviates that disruption. And there you have what in business is called a unique selling point, aka a product to sell.
(Lastly, if you look around the cfs and long covid subreddits, there are plenty of reports of people trying Perrin. Within these I have not seen people being cured and pointing to the technique for it. What I did see was a lot of folks trying it, it not working, and it being expensive.)
I have read the entire long version of his book through once and gone back and reread other portions multiple times. When you read his book he states that 15% of people using his methods fully recovered using this technique alone, while the for the rest it is used in conjunction with other “pieces of the puzzle”.
@@marychamberlin2599 That sounds great. Though it's rather different from being a proven recovery method, like this video says.
@@neron8497 If you were one of the 15% that fully recovered using this method alone, I imagine you would consider it a proven method. In science you have the double blind studies which most consider the gold standard, then you have individual case studies. Both have their value. For me, at this point, I don’t have the option of spending money on a practitioner as there are none in my area. So the only outlay of dollars is buying the book. So trying lymphatic massage costs me nothing else but time invested. I like that it certainly is not going to harm me even if it I try it and it doesn’t help!
@@marychamberlin2599 Certainly! If those people have been able to recover just with this method, that's fantastic and I agree with the wording there. It's just the way this video title is worded that suggest a larger percentage of people it'd apply to. But that is separate from the good that is there. In your case, I hope you are one of the people for whom this truly works. Wish you the best of luck.
The liver has something to do with this that's why we tend to be alcohol medicine intolerance
Could that 'trauma to the brain,' ALSO be the damn swabs?? Shots? Vxzeens??? Please don't neglect these as well.
Osteopathy is the discipline of (theoretically) treating disease by stimulating the body to heal itself, with a focus on manipulating muscles and bones. The idea that the body can be cured by manipulation has never been demonstrated in any scientific journal and is essentially woo.
Don't forget most medicine is placebo fact the same
Duuh there is no insentive for research because there is no money in it
@@GuleidMuse-vg6db correct though Goya be away for us to recover
Works for a minority of the CFS folk. Money down the drain for many, unfortunately.
Please come to Palestine. The doctors there are so lacking in awareness and the least they can do is give patients some validation and believe them and they are not doing that.
What about over-application of ice on my neck and head for 2 decades? I’ve only just learned that it slows down the cells and turns them into a jelly like consistency? That must be really great for the lymphatic system. 🥹 I’d really appreciate your comments on this subject. THANKS SO MUCH!!