As a player who plays (at least try) a lawful good character, to me it's impossible to play without mods like The Choice is Yours, House of Horrors - Quest Expansion, Thieves Guild For Good Guys, Boethiah for Good Guys, Save the Icerunner - Lights Out Alternate Routes, etc. In most quests Skyrim doesn't allow us to make choices (we cannot even abandon or fail the quest), not to mention the cases where a character approaches and forces a quest in your journal. It's really nice to put an evil NPC behind bars without having to follow the entire questline that forces us to commit crimes just to kill this NPC (because he is essential until the quest hit the final stage).
You sound like you play as I do. I've always hated the Dark Brotherhood quests. Till I found out that you can actually kill Astrid in that hut and then release those three prisoners. Though I have to admit, I always hesitate when releasing that female. _"She just keeps on nag, nag, nagging. Maybe I'll just leave her here. Tied up?"_ But I release her eventually once I've released the other two first. But once Astrid's dead and you've reported it to the commander at Dragon's Bridge, you can then take out the rest of their group. I helped out Cicero once, years ago now, with his broken down wagon. But now I just leave him and walk past. He's one character I just do not like and I can't even kill the annoying twit while he's at his wagon. But when you take out the rest of them, he vanishes for good.
Dude, vanilla Skyrim was ... even good at some degree, but I won't ever play it again since Requiem based modpackes exist. After I tried just installing Requiem+Frostfall in 2016 year, Skyrim Vanilla just forever disappeared for me.
My exact thoughts. But he is right to some extent, if you listen to what he says in the video. Less is sometimes more. Nolvus and other mod packs change too many things and sometimes not in a good direction, so Vanilla is better than those. They should be modular, like GAMMA is for Stalker, so that people can remove the mods they don't like. Under one of my Skyrim videos I was criticized that my modded game looks and plays like Vanilla, which isn't true of course, but I was also proud of it because my goal was to keep the original feeling of the game, while improving on it.
Vanilla with graphics or vanilla + with graphics have been my favourite playthroughs. But I’m doing a more heavily modded game with anniversary content right now (with a mod that voices that content) and it’s been very enjoyable. Might end up being my favourite playthrough when it’s all said and done.
I agree! I’ve been playing heavily modded Skyrim since legendary edition up to anniversary. But just last year I decided to return to vanilla after I got it on my steam deck. I played it for almost the entire day. Skyrim is still fun in vanilla which reminded me how great of a game it is without mods. Skyrim is pretty much complete. Now I alternate between the two because nowadays I’d rather just sit and play.
Vanilla might be superior to modded only in terms of stability. Bugs and glitches we experience often come from mods not working or from our mistakes while modingy also when it come to vanilla vs moddded ctds almost never happen in vanilla. Beleive it or not i havent broke my skyrim with mods in years. My style of modding is vanilla+ by which i enhance aspects of game already there for better experience and if i am expanding game a bit than i go with lore friendly mods.
To add to my comment to have buttery smooth performance regardless of number of mods you use you can turn priority to your advantage. You have mods that must have highest priority by default, you have mods that have higher priority because they overwrite mods below them, also there are mods that must be placed as close to the bottom as possible and there are mods whose priority on the list is irellevant and those mods are your ace up your sleve. What i do with mods whose priority doesnt really matter is i put largest near the bottom on the list as base then i overwrite them with series of smaller mods giving smaller mods higher priority. This way by the time MO2 gets to the bottom of the load order it has resources extra resources to load biggest mods without distruption to performance. I did what i wrote here and i had smooth performance at max settings with 800 mods but all the texturea i used were 2k because my system isn't good enough for 4K textures. Also an advice for texture mods: stick with same resolution with all texture replacers for consitent performance.
Even in terms of stability you’d be better off grabbing a few Engine fix and script optimisation mods so no matter how you twist it, Modded Skyrim is always superior to vanilla
@EQOAnostalgia i used to use loot a lot but last time i modded skyrim loot had barely anything to di because i can do by hand what loot does which doesn't mean i don't need loot.
"Modding Skyrim can take tens of hours..." I have easily spent more time adding and making mods for Skyrim than I ever spent playing it, and that is a very common story among the modding community. Broke the cycle and actually got back to playing the game by only allowing myself to remove mods I didn't absolutely love and continuing to add graphics mods only. The result is a beautiful modern-looking game that plays like classic Skyrim. Honestly, the only thing the game still feels like it is lacking is realistic cities, but that simply isn't worth it in Skyrim's engine. Don't forget to play the game, fellow modders
Yes, honestly (I play on PC), personally I can't play for a long time without SkyUI. The original inventory system quickly becomes such a mess, a true bother to use (unless your character caries only a few things). I didn't really realize it until I had to come back for some time to a vanilla version. What a difference. Having to scroll so much, when you have a cursor...
First time players should absolutely not mod. Part of what makes mods so awesome, is knowing the difference mods make. I also agree that vanilla, especially with the updated graphics from SE is a solid looking game. Skyrim is fun at its core imo, but personally i can't see myself going back to vanilla unless it's on my Switch lol. If my load order is tall and it gets demolished then it's a good time for an extended break. It'll always be there when I get back. But yeah it's... scary adding new mods after you pass a certain time spent threshold lol. Oh and i agree it's defintiely addicting, i'm currently modding FO4, Skyrim SE and Skyrim VR lol.
omg, you hit the nail on the head at 4:15, I've stopped using mods and you just made me realize why "it feels like you're constantly chasing perfection" but never getting 'there' is frustrating.
Unfortunately, this might be the most negative aspect of modding. The desire to keep improving never ends, and sometimes this can kill the enjoyment of the game.
I truly enjoy modding and I disagree with some points listed, but this one resonated. It's one of the reasons I play on the switch as well. It's uncomplicated!
i have 200 mods, but i spend little time modding compared to playing, i added mods through the years on 1.5.97 and i didn't update, i think people who gets obsessed with modding are doing it wrong, the goal is to enjoy the game not worry all the time about mods.
I agree with reason 1 (the consistency and style of the graphics). I somewhat disagree with reason 2 (always chasing perfection and balance). Once I have a stable game, I don't mod until next playthrough. For balance, there exist a few mod suites that are balanced around each other. For reason 3 (some mods break lore), I enjoy a bit of lore, but I am not a lore buff, so small discrepancies don't bother me. There do exist very lore-friendly mods, but you can't tell them apart at first glance, you have to do your research. About reason 4 (always something new to discover), I got all achievements, played on legendary, completed a large part of the side quests, got to very high level on my fist playthrough. A lot of quests don't have meaningful choices to count them as something new. I think that there will be always something new to see and discover, but mods can bring a lot more. For reason 5 (modding is tedious), I enjoy the process of modding. Some may not and if they agree with you on all previous points there are still some lightly modded lists that fix bugs, improve balance and adhere to the vanilla look. I disagree with reason 6 (mod only because trying to recreate the magic of first playtrough). Not all people mod the game for this reason. I mod it because Skyrim is a very good sandbox game and I want some more tools to play with, have a more balanced experience, while also having a bit better graphics. All in all, your reasons for not modding Skyrim, to me look like guidelines on how to mod safely and try to improve, not completely change the experience. You have to know what you want and not install everything. Ultra-modded setups will suffer a lot more from the points you make than lighter ones. Self-control is important to keep your game stable, balanced and still immersive.
I have watched many modded versions of Skyrim on TH-cam. It’s very interesting. I do love regular Skyrim. It’s beautiful and has a wonderful soundtrack.
You are SO on point! Thank you man. I've spent way more time the last few years modding the game than actually playing it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. Thank mod for modlists though, saves a lot of time and you can easily switch between modlists.
Yesterday i launched skyrim with unbound and grass cache (testing) stuff, cabbage enb and nat weather only, because i wanted to test animations wich i'm done with, and man it looks so different!, I COULD SEE WHITERUN FROM AFAR, i was amazed at the details and how empty it looked without my modlist... it was a whole different game
I've been thinking a lot of the same stuff you've said in this video. Last year when I first played new vegas & skyrim i went into making modlists with the notion that there was always something that could be improved or fixed & it just ended in a disjointed, dopamine-chasing mess everytime. The more ive modded & understood about modding, ive come to appreciate the games for what they are despite their flaws. Now my modlists are fairly minimal, with the largest changes being the simonrim suite which doesnt stray too far from the original game & a few mods that expand upon vanilla quests.
Im a console player and have been modding skyrim for half a decade now. Ive tried all sorts of load orders, yet my definitive load order is quite similar to the visual tone and feel of the original, but still touching on all aspects. Its just not a radical departure from the original vision as many popular mods and lists. While Im a veteran at this point, Im also kinda lazy and dumb. At one point after the recent update my load order got jumbled up and Im yet to fix it. Im finally writing my skyrim LO, but its taking ages. I have 304 plugins. Theres one table to sort mods by size and one to sort the load order. Skyrim on consoles requires you to download the big boys first because you need 2x the available size of the mod in the load order to install. So its basically 304 x2 listing name, size, author, category and link on bethnet Im also creating 2 extra tabs, one with all the stuff I need to test when launching a new game, and other with setup info for mods and how to debug some stuff that may happen during a game So yeah, sometimes vanilla seems pretty alluring lol.
My main gripe with modding mostly comes from the lack of good modding organizers as Nexus is the only ok-ish mod manager, and the mods almost always conflicts. So to avoid this I do mod collections, but nexus regularly takes some down, the reliability of them aren’t great, and if you use a massive one without nexus like Nolvus you are likely missing some favorites you like to play with… I also played some vanilla Skyrim and while decent the build imbalances really drag the gameplay down. Mages, spell swords, and stealth archers are great or too OP, while shield wielding, great weapons, and daggers are never worth the squeeze… hoping to try Ultima or Invictus soon and see how they differ.
I don 't use balance breaking cc mods, i unistalled them, i can't play skyrim without some difficulty mods etc, too easy otherwise, also some mods like the horses one and extended hotkeys etc are so useful. And others like Hammet dungeon pack, adds tons of high quality dungeons, some i think are better than bethesda ones.
I try to use only mods that give Skyrim a fuller feel...that does include Creation Club content...Some of the CC have been good in bringing things from the Elder Scroll lore...Because your right about the beauty of the game and the stories that is told in vanilla are original. You still can be different with different play throughs...without mods. I am not knocking mods they have their place in Skyrim.
As someone currently playing with a mod list, I'm not entirely against mods either. They enhance the experience of replaying Skyrim over and over again. Without mods, perhaps no one would keep coming back to Skyrim repeatedly.
I like simpler mods.... But I do use a few mods that I feel help with some of my vanilla irks....I hate only getting one flower, or only 3 ores from a vein. I do mess with attire a bit, but I use about 10 graphic mods mostly for shrines, rocks/stones and plant life. I even use a mod that adds some nordic recipes.....but I don't feel any are lore unfriendly or break immersion. I do use a gemstone mod that adds way too many gemstones, but I think it helps me with a thrill of collecting when collecting dubious daedric artifacts is counter to the type of character I normally play. I surely no longer use so many mods that breaking my game happens often..that is just a nightmare. For me, less mods is better, but many mods are simply too good to break from..at least for me.
I think there is a middle ground. I have a relatively lightly modded skyrim, including bug fixes, slight graphical improvements and tweaks on things that just didn't make sense to me in game (like why a farmer with an iron dagger would try and take on a dragon, etc.) I think there is a place for both lightly and heavily modded versions of the game, but for me the pure vanilla experience lacks polish (lest we forget backwards flying dragons, performance issues on ps4 and the broken 'blood on the ice' quest).
while i disagree with most of this video, i think point number 3 is kind of dumb. Bethesda has retconned and introduced so many plotholes with each new release of the elder scrolls game. The skyrim we see in tes v is almost nothing like the skyrim that was described in morrowind. Granted oblivion did the same, but atleast it introduced some cool new lore
The idea that the decisions made by developers years before for a game needs to restrict the creative decisions made by developers years later is a very dumb thing. People cry about retcons a lot. But it doesn't matter. Especially with Elder scrolls games where each game is set far apart from each other and the lore of the elder scrolls is all based on the different accounts of different people, much like real life.
The entire video is like that, there are no "reasons", it's just a lot of reaching for a point and using vague terminology like "diluted immersion" to support them while ignoring obvious solutions to obvious problems.
@@xxmemewizardxxps2902 Don't you have to pay for that shit though? Then you end up with baggage you don't want. Like those retarded af looking spell wheel pentagram monstrosities everyone uses for spells. As if they look better than actually particle effects lol.
Believe me you want go back lol. Bro bring up valid points but the mods clean up to much lil things and I’m telling you not goona want to go back to the old Skyrim after you got a hooded mod base situation going on
If you're playing on PC, I highly recommend SkyUI (or something similar) for a better inventory system (you don't have to scroll as much because you see more of your inventory at once and you have a cursor to point at things). I think it's the only one type of mod I can't play without (on PC) at all now.
@@JohnBrown-ox8pl or Dark Souls, not that there's anything wrong with Dark Souls but it should stay in its franchise wile Elder Scrolls should stay Elder Scrolls
It becomes an addiction chasing perfection. My next mod/fix. One of the best things is Skyrim is simple. Adding mods adds new systems & too much complexity. It's best to fix graphics and add just mandatory immersive mods.
For me, a mild vanilla+ is great for visual mods and combat mods. I admire armour mods (there are some beautiful sets out there) but they mostly feel like they don't belong in the game. Skyrim is meant to be a run-down, war-torn, freezing province yet half of the mod videos I watch have people running around in super-shiny flawless gear or micro, jiggle physics bikinis. No hate, but they kinda take me out of the world. Quest mods are a different matter though. Mods that give more choice for existing quests are particularly fantastic for roleplaying. JaySerpa's mods for example are wonderful for roleplaying.
Tell me about a modded version of Skyrim going tits-up! I'm going back a good few years now. 7 or 8 years ago. Spent a whole week downloading mods, testing, downloading and testing till after a whole week and hours of work, my game was ready. Walked past Riverwood marvelling at the scenery, then on to Whiterun. To be, back then, it was stunning. But after about 45 mins worth of just walking about, I retired for the evening ready to go full Skyrim the following day. And I know some are going to moan now, but I was using Vortex. I still do. It's one I understand... ish! I digress. I opened Vortex and there was a message. Vortex needs an update. Lots of things need updates. So I updated it. Totally trashed Skyrim. Couldn't run it at all. Loads of fault messages kept appearing and as I'd installed some 500 mods, they kept coming. So I removed every mod and uninstalled skyrim and for 8 years or so, I never touched it again. And while I understand that the vanilla version is the complete game, I couldn't play Skyrim without decent looking people. _Especially the ladies!_ But as soon as you've got the people sorted out, then you need to _tweek_ a few trees. And grass. You can't _tweek_ trees without doing grass... And rocks. Rocks always need _tweeking._ And maybe that water too. The sky needs _tweeking_ too. And before you know where you are, you've downloaded 100 mods and you're remodding Skyrim for the umpteenthtime. I can only assume that if you look at how long you've played Skyrim for on Steam, then 1/2 to 2/3rds of it, isn't actually playing it. It's modding it. I'll freely admit now, that many years ago I did muck a bout with some rifle mods. But I soon removed them. But the mods I will _NOT_ implement are the fighting mods that make Skyrim feel like you've just jumped into some far Eastern Samurai game with all that jumping about. or mods that introduce overtly, oversized weapons. I don't even buy games where I see a character holding a sword that's 2 foot wide and 12 foot long. Or a hammer where the head is the size of an average anvil. They just do not appeal to me. Good video though. So thank you.
I agree with most people I can't play vanilla Skyrim anymore it too outdated. But I'm sick of the game constantly crashing when I try and use a mod list. I've noticed when I try and use a mod list that has 2k+ mods that my game will crash like every 20mins. And even the smaller mod lists the game still crashes every hour or so. Its frustrating and makes me give up on the game all together because I wont play the vanilla version and modded version keeps braking. And before someone comments well get a better PC or did you follow the installation instructions correctly. My response is yes I follow the instructions word for word and second my PC is fine to run any mod list out there.
Crashing every hour or so with a light load list = 100% shitty load order. Using LOOT alone can sort through 100 mods without issue if people take the time to read descriptions and not install like say... two lighting mods.
U should try lorerim,its one of the best mod packs out there and it stays true to skyrims lore. Lorerim address all the problems u where talking about,its been fully optimized and was designed to stay loyal to the lore hence the name lorerim
It’s not really a vanilla plus modpack tho. If you want that then play gate to sovngarde. The only bad thing about GTS is that it’s a vortex collection. :(. Otherwise, lorerim is a good choice if you hate Skyrim’s combat and want something challenging.
06:28 this is why the only "lore-friendly" mod I install is Vigilant, and it's literally Dark Souls with the Elder Scrolls lore. I'm agree with this, many lore-friendly mods end up being not so lore-friendly, thats why I personally avoid them, and instead, I go for things that changes combat, instead adding a "lore-friendly" mod that literally adds made up concepts or the modder's opinion about something of the game.
My problem with most mods is they usually go too far in what I want them to do. Player Homes is a great example. I love being able to pick up every item, and replace them with my own decorations. Modders like Elianora love to make static items to decorate their homes, because it looks nice, but in doing so, kind of kills all their mods for me. Obviously this is super subjective, and a "me" problem, but most mods have something similar. You'll install something like the Immersive Saber mod for Starfield. I want the sabers, but they also took the liberty of adding lightsaber perks that change game balance. It comes from a good place. Each mod author wants to make their mod the coolest, deepest thing ever, and It may be, but not for me.
You make some good points, and I always encourage players to experience the vanilla game before modding (even quality of life mods). However, your lore argument is an interesting one that, while I may have agreed with you in the past, doesn't hold true when even Bethesda has shown that they cannot and will not respect their own lore.
Personally before starting this video I believe that Skyrim without mods is great and is probably better without them anyway like there's a reason everyone came to Skyrim it was the elder scrolls that everyone loved but simplified so more generalist players could get into it I used to hate DND and all that garbage but now i think it's okay only because Skyrim opened my eyes sure it was jank but what game from that time wasn't and sure modding it could be great but I don't think that adding all that in brings anything more to the game than what's there you don't play Skyrim just to mess around you play it for adventure
i agree with all of this which is why i try to keep it as vanilla plus as possible. that being said reason 3 is a little harder to justify 100%. Bethesda intentionally makes lore breaking changes to the story so it can continue but in doing so breaks many seemingly important events in the process. kind of like neir automata is a continuation of drakenguards bad ending. more people played nier over drakenguard (me included) nier is now the main lore making drakenguard the alternate. while i agree some mods are really disjointed others that try to tie in to the story aren't necessarily diluting it. its like a perception filter two people cant always see things exactly the same. An example of vanillas lorebreak is serana herself according to lore enthusiasts she is impossible unless she isn't really trapped in that dungeon, wasn't paying attention to world events like she claims. if she isnt trapped in the dungeon that makes the rest of dawnguard nonsensical as well since her protecting the elder scroll in that dungeon is the lynchpin of the story. so some suspension of belief is required anyway otherwise your choosing to trust and follow a pathological liar (or someone with dementia) to a literal den of vampires.
Man out here dropping a friggin' truth bomb EVERY Skyrim player needs to hear. Personally, I am a victim of endless modding. When I bought Skyrim in 2012, I played vanilla for 800+ hours. After that, most of my time was spent fooling around (literally fooling around) with mods. Between LE and SE/AE, it's been over 6,674.4 hours, and concerning the vanilla content, I've never gotten further in the main quest than the point just after you complete "Diplomatic Immunity," *_in 12 years and 11 months._* It's pitiful. I've tried my hand at vanilla in the present day MANY times, but to no avail. My pacing is bad. It only takes proper pacing. I feel pacing is lacking in most things these days. Bless you and your TH-cam channel(s). 🗿
When I first started manually modding, I couldn't progress past the same quest for a long time, and it became a very frustrating situation. Luckily, when I started to develop the idea of a TH-cam channel in my mind, I decided to finish the game :))
Reason Nr 1 Goes both ways… as Modding is usually meant to expand upon the game and give you a fresh/refreshing experience Reason Nr 2 Totally agree on that one. Even though you can complete a mod list and have everything work as intended, all the mods available incentivise you to get another small immersion improvement. And another small tweak there, and another there… etc Reason 3, Super vague, personalised, very bad point honestly Reason 4, Also kinda personalised but probably true for most people Reason 5, This should be the main reason for someone to decide if they wanna mod Skyrim or not. If you want to have a good experience with modded Skyrim, you will have to sink in hours of time configuring, fixing, patching, play-testing etc. if you’re unwilling to do that you will most likely end up with a partially or fully broken game and a botched experience as a result of it. Reason 6, Disagree, if done right my play throughs only feel better and more magical while still benefitting from the nostalgia of previous playthroughs. Immerse yourself and set your own goals and you will enjoy every play through more than before
Nice opinion but when I see unfinished terrain at the bottom of a mountain where the rock texture don’t reach the surface that “finished state” loses credibility
I love Vanilla Skyrim, but after 1500 hrs, I know what I want in this game. Ive done many playthroughs, and I bought a pc to learn how to mod. But what always irked me is MCO. Even in your video with Nulvus, what is seens as "Modern combat" removes mechanics of both skyrim and modern games. Then you have th myth that Skyrim combat is boring, yet people praise Mount and Blade. The difference is the punishment, and people mod it out with a system that allows you to do a full combo on an enemy that cant use invincibility frames or react. You take an MCO user in Vanilla Skyrim, they will use companions or run away and heal instead of actual dodging, blocking, and using the environment. I get bashed on it alot but the true fact is...alot of people SUCK at playing Skyrim.
Modding any game is a pain. Modding brings crashes, burnout, stress. Sometimes I envy nornal skyrim and how good weather and atmosphere look. If I had to play Skyrim, it would just be SE or AE. But I use mods, so I always have to keep it on the edge of not crashing.
Meh i cant stand to even look at vanilla skyrim anymore, its so fugly, clunky and still somewhat buggy. Thats why for years i modded it to hell and back on my own whims, but after taking a break and several updates, that list broke. Now i'm playing Jay Serpa's "Gate to Sovngarde" with my own tweaks and additions and it cant get much better than that if you want immersion and still some good performance imho.
I'm at the point where i'll likely just get some dudes modpack next go lol. As addicting as modding is, it does get redundant and a lot of the time I just want to hop in and not play dev and personal play testers for 2 fking weeks lol.
Interesting take and some valid points. Although I doubt if anyone who mods Skyrim or plays it modded needs to be told that stability might be compromised. Not to mention the amount of mods that actually fix a lot of bugs and stability issues. Ditto the issue of lore-correctness or otherwise. Why the strawman clickbait title though?
Eh, people who mod poorly mod poorly. I’ve spent years dealing with vanilla Skyrim’s sh*t. Having mods like Mysticism, Thaumaturgy, Apothecary, Better Vampires, etc. that improve the objectively outdated if not poorly designed aspects of Skyrim are fantastic personally. I understand the second reason, but for people like me whose mods overhaul features to such an extent that there is no need for further modification. The only subsequent downloads (at least for me) are only new quest mods. All of the gameplay and story has already been enhanced to an acceptable level. Everyone’s different, but I make sure every single mod in my load order abides by the established lore of the Elder Scrolls franchise. If it breaks it, I no longer want it. Sure, the things I’ve already done time and time again. Now all of my quest lines have alternative endings, I have 7 brand new entire worlds to explore..you get it. I agree that modding can be a chore, but you get the proper load order, put in the time to get feedback and be willing to manually patch things, you’re set. Screw recapturing nostalgia, I want BETTER. Better than what Bethesda sh*t out in 2011. I want a game that feels like it was made by Homo sapiens of the year 2024. I get where you’re coming from, and I’m glad you enjoy vanilla Skyrim. It is one of if not the most influential and perhaps important RPGs ever created, but I’m not that kid who only ran on hills because I thought high elves were called that because they like being elevated anymore. I have played games released in the modern age. I have played games whose systems don’t allow you to over-exploit and pretty much cheat the whole game. I’ve played games where every single perk has genuine importance to the build you’re attempting to play. I’ve played games where I can actually get invested in my companions and they have actual stories. Vanilla Skyrim is far behind me, and a lot of other people, but it is still deep within others like you. It is still magical and expansive and that is beautiful. But everything in this list, at least to me, are symptoms of a greedy modder who has 0 plan of what they want in a play through and who have a poor load order.
No. Those people who think that modding Skyrim is a bad thing are people who play RPGs solely for the story and just for the story and graphics from point A to point B. Skyrim + mods can create a game that is not likely to be released for a long time considering what kind of games are coming out… Yes, you can improve the graphics, but what if everything else was improved first? Adding difficulty, fixing issues, improving the economy, survival, and so on, and you don’t need 1000 2000 5000 mods for that.”
Only takes about 10 mods to get the game looking modern with an ENB, after that if you want to go minimalist... shit, about 20-30 more to make combat an actual challenge and fixes for bs Bugthesda never bothered to patch.
I consider nordic souls to be vanilla skyrim if it were released in 2019 instead of 2011. I'm a huge fan of all the elderscrolls games (my first and still favorite is morrowind) but Bethesda is far from perfect and just like the two previous games (morrowind/oblivion) it's far from a "complete game" I've crashed more playing base skyrim than I have with nordic souls. 100% recommend nordic souls for everyone that has beat skyrim. and for those worried, nordic souls isn't a soulslike... it's just a name and it has 0 attachment to that game style. It's literally just skyrim 2.0
I tend to not participate in streams or youtube content that includes mods.it makes the experience inconsistent. Play the game or don't. If I see a streamer or VOD that includes mods I cannot relate.
I still raw dog Skyrim without mods. As someone who just got a Bachelor degree in 3d animation Im too bothered about the way mods alter the art style. Take White Run as example. The wood of the houses is cracked, dry and bleeched, with a little bit of moss growing in the crevices. That is how the dry, arid tundra environment is supposed to effect how wood ages.
just play whatever you want, though if you started modded, and you liked it i would RECOMMEND you to experience vanilla, as i said play whatever you want, i can only recommend, not tell you what to play, this discussion over modders and vanilla puritans it's just something stupid going on in the community for a while (also I'm not criticizing the video either, I'm just giving my point of view)
While I do enjoy vanilla, the modding community has shown just how lazy Bethesda was in creating their game.Bethesda could have added so much more to the game over the years but just let moders do it for free, which is cool of Bethesda BUT still shows how much MORE they could have done. Modding also allows all different types of players to enjoy Skyrim. For instance, Im playing Gate to Sovngarde and love its realism and the fact its much more difficult than vanilla. Others love list that focus on flashy 3rd person combat, I love 1st person immersion...mods allow us all to enjoy the game...
This is irritating to me. Yes Bugthesda are pretty lazy, but comparing what modders are doing in 2024 to what devs had to work with in 2011 is just bullshit.
@@EQOAnostalgia Its not bullshit when Betheshda COULD be pushing out equally impressive content to the game INSTEAD of relying on modders to do it and all THEY do is re-release the game in differing versions.
As much as how cool lots of the modern 3rd person combat mods and animations are nowadays, I still feel that the game engine itself simply isn’t built for type of play style. Vanilla third person combat is trash. It’s obvious Bethesda intended the game to be played in first person.
@@EQOAnostalgia i guess i should say "modern and heavy (wabbajack like or takes more than 500 mods+ where 100 mods its for bug fixes etc)" ,im sure modern modlist has perfomance friendly aswell where it dont use 2k-4k texture so it dont tax the vram so much...
i really hate most modpack make skyrim like another soul like game those combat mod ruined skyrim i love skyrim firsperson combat and 3rd person just need little bit touch and that's it like precision mod or probably enhancement mod like the one in requiem modpack
@@AimForMyHead81 The only thing that I actually didn't experience is Skyrim when it got release and that something that only people who did can understand and I think that's what you are referring to. Skyrim as it is , probably in incredible experience when it came out. Me when I started getting into video games was in 2022, therefore I actually needed a few mods to make it easier on the eye. ( and at the time I was playing on PS5 so it was mostly vanilla ++)
Have you ever finished every quest in the game? Just asking, because if I use my own mod list it never happens, vanilla Skyrim or a modpack is way more complete.
@LandonGasao I only played 3 games consistently in the past 10 years. Fallout NV, skyrim and Fallout 4. It is possible, to do everything in skyrim and Fallout.
@@LandonGasaoI’ve done literally everything in Skyrim so many times. So I definitely always have mods these days just to spice it up. Not that many to be fair, but I’ve found things like Hunterborn & Campfire definitely enhance the experience after you’ve played the game to death lol I like slowing down the game as much as possible these days, these definitely do that when paired with legendary & survival modes.
This will sound mean, but it kinda sounds like you just really wanted to get a video out, lmao. The whole premise is acting like modders don't like (or play) Vanilla and that's simply not the case, for most the veterans in that scene. Mod play, Mod using, Modlist creating are all hobbies of one sort or another. They don't exist to cheapen or ruin the original experience. Any Gamebryo game has enough bugs to kill the patience of a Doctor, which is why modding got hot in the first place. However, playing Skyrim AE, with only the dlc provided does feel like a true "Game of The Year" edition of a title from 2011.
Sounds like your un-modded voice! Already automatically best video you've made. Nohate. I play your longer comps in the bg. I like the remixes. Are you ready to do older lore like Mannimarco?
Since Fallout 4 and the implementation of the Creation Club, Bethesda games are no longer mod friendly. Yes, they allow for mods, but everytime they update the game with each new launch of Creation Club content, mods from earlier builds of the game can break. So unless the unpaid modders keep going back to their mods and update them for the newest build of the game, more and more free mods will begin lacking behind. I dont see why a modder, working for free, would come back and update their content every quarter of a year. Skyrim has been out for 13 years now, and Bethesda are still updating the game with new patches.
@@shaunaqpaul3078 And which build of the game should I run? Which is the version of the game you have, where all the mods are working perfectly? Because last I checked, there were 20 different versions, with mods working for some of them, but never all of them. I have been modding Bethesda games for 18 years. It's not like I dont know what I'm talking about.
@@christiankaiser3885 This is just a bad point lol. Most people know how to prevent that and most mods are updated, and most that are not do not even use the script extender and updates are not needed. My entire load order from 5 years ago STILL works today on any version i choose.
Vanilla lacks game loops and is a sad excuse for a sandbox 😂 I've first got Skyrim on PS3 back in the day and it's easily ine of the worst games I've played at a time. Devoid of content, empty world with garbage writing and criminally bad questline and side quests. The "freedom" came down to walking around and killing shit - that's it. Not to mention abysmal combat system that is as bad as it has been in Morrowind over a decade beforehand. Not to mention absolutely garbage UI rumbed down for gamepad use. There is a reason why everyone and their mother played stealth bow build or as a mage 😂 I will honestly never understand why Skyrim reached such hrights of popularity on consoles, the game is beyond abysmal without heavy modding...
you clearly arent the target audience then. Let people play what they want and go play whatever you think is good. Idk why you even clicked on this video tbh
Unfortunately, for my content to attract attention, the visuals need to be modded. Plus, I’ve finished the vanilla version multiple times. I have the right to mod it :)
More than half of these problems can be solved by using nexus collections lol. And even if you don't like mods the bug fix mods are great and don't touch anything base game related even tho and lets be real Skyrim is still getting content that Bethesda is profiting off of and they still wont fix year old "features". I guess its a good thing tho look at what they did to fallout 4's last update.
Be careful my good sir! Praising Bethesda for making a game we all love may result in the undesirable terminally online zombies to crawl out of the bushes and come attack you!!
I always praise Bethesda. Yes, some of their actions might be wrong, and some of their games can be quite buggy, but it’s Bethesda who brought us unforgettable experiences with games like the Elder Scrolls series and Skyrim. Despite the negatives, I respect them. Even if a game like Starfield isn’t as well-received, I’ll still be eagerly waiting for everything they release. Thanks for the warning, but I don’t pay much attention to those zombies :)
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Modding Skyrim is an addiction. I feel sometimes as if I cannot stop modding.
That's exactly how I felt.
As a player who plays (at least try) a lawful good character, to me it's impossible to play without mods like The Choice is Yours, House of Horrors - Quest Expansion, Thieves Guild For Good Guys, Boethiah for Good Guys, Save the Icerunner - Lights Out Alternate Routes, etc. In most quests Skyrim doesn't allow us to make choices (we cannot even abandon or fail the quest), not to mention the cases where a character approaches and forces a quest in your journal. It's really nice to put an evil NPC behind bars without having to follow the entire questline that forces us to commit crimes just to kill this NPC (because he is essential until the quest hit the final stage).
You sound like you play as I do. I've always hated the Dark Brotherhood quests. Till I found out that you can actually kill Astrid in that hut and then release those three prisoners. Though I have to admit, I always hesitate when releasing that female. _"She just keeps on nag, nag, nagging. Maybe I'll just leave her here. Tied up?"_ But I release her eventually once I've released the other two first.
But once Astrid's dead and you've reported it to the commander at Dragon's Bridge, you can then take out the rest of their group. I helped out Cicero once, years ago now, with his broken down wagon. But now I just leave him and walk past. He's one character I just do not like and I can't even kill the annoying twit while he's at his wagon. But when you take out the rest of them, he vanishes for good.
Dude, vanilla Skyrim was ... even good at some degree, but I won't ever play it again since Requiem based modpackes exist. After I tried just installing Requiem+Frostfall in 2016 year, Skyrim Vanilla just forever disappeared for me.
My exact thoughts. But he is right to some extent, if you listen to what he says in the video. Less is sometimes more. Nolvus and other mod packs change too many things and sometimes not in a good direction, so Vanilla is better than those. They should be modular, like GAMMA is for Stalker, so that people can remove the mods they don't like. Under one of my Skyrim videos I was criticized that my modded game looks and plays like Vanilla, which isn't true of course, but I was also proud of it because my goal was to keep the original feeling of the game, while improving on it.
Vanilla with graphics or vanilla + with graphics have been my favourite playthroughs. But I’m doing a more heavily modded game with anniversary content right now (with a mod that voices that content) and it’s been very enjoyable. Might end up being my favourite playthrough when it’s all said and done.
I agree! I’ve been playing heavily modded Skyrim since legendary edition up to anniversary. But just last year I decided to return to vanilla after I got it on my steam deck. I played it for almost the entire day. Skyrim is still fun in vanilla which reminded me how great of a game it is without mods. Skyrim is pretty much complete. Now I alternate between the two because nowadays I’d rather just sit and play.
Vanilla might be superior to modded only in terms of stability. Bugs and glitches we experience often come from mods not working or from our mistakes while modingy also when it come to vanilla vs moddded ctds almost never happen in vanilla. Beleive it or not i havent broke my skyrim with mods in years. My style of modding is vanilla+ by which i enhance aspects of game already there for better experience and if i am expanding game a bit than i go with lore friendly mods.
To add to my comment to have buttery smooth performance regardless of number of mods you use you can turn priority to your advantage. You have mods that must have highest priority by default, you have mods that have higher priority because they overwrite mods below them, also there are mods that must be placed as close to the bottom as possible and there are mods whose priority on the list is irellevant and those mods are your ace up your sleve. What i do with mods whose priority doesnt really matter is i put largest near the bottom on the list as base then i overwrite them with series of smaller mods giving smaller mods higher priority. This way by the time MO2 gets to the bottom of the load order it has resources extra resources to load biggest mods without distruption to performance. I did what i wrote here and i had smooth performance at max settings with 800 mods but all the texturea i used were 2k because my system isn't good enough for 4K textures. Also an advice for texture mods: stick with same resolution with all texture replacers for consitent performance.
Even in terms of stability you’d be better off grabbing a few Engine fix and script optimisation mods so no matter how you twist it, Modded Skyrim is always superior to vanilla
With LOOT it's kinda hard to bork your entire save. I have done it though lol.
@EQOAnostalgia i used to use loot a lot but last time i modded skyrim loot had barely anything to di because i can do by hand what loot does which doesn't mean i don't need loot.
"Modding Skyrim can take tens of hours..."
I have easily spent more time adding and making mods for Skyrim than I ever spent playing it, and that is a very common story among the modding community. Broke the cycle and actually got back to playing the game by only allowing myself to remove mods I didn't absolutely love and continuing to add graphics mods only. The result is a beautiful modern-looking game that plays like classic Skyrim. Honestly, the only thing the game still feels like it is lacking is realistic cities, but that simply isn't worth it in Skyrim's engine. Don't forget to play the game, fellow modders
No, modders don't hate this video. They probably don't even know it exists. If they do, they shake their heads in pity.
Skyrim is a good game for its time, modding is a hobby to push its limits, making your own custom modlists is best
I only played with two mods: a UI replacement so that my inventory was easier to look through, and a mod that made unread books glow.
Wizard hats and capes are also very nice having
Yes, honestly (I play on PC), personally I can't play for a long time without SkyUI. The original inventory system quickly becomes such a mess, a true bother to use (unless your character caries only a few things). I didn't really realize it until I had to come back for some time to a vanilla version. What a difference. Having to scroll so much, when you have a cursor...
First time players should absolutely not mod. Part of what makes mods so awesome, is knowing the difference mods make. I also agree that vanilla, especially with the updated graphics from SE is a solid looking game. Skyrim is fun at its core imo, but personally i can't see myself going back to vanilla unless it's on my Switch lol. If my load order is tall and it gets demolished then it's a good time for an extended break.
It'll always be there when I get back. But yeah it's... scary adding new mods after you pass a certain time spent threshold lol. Oh and i agree it's defintiely addicting, i'm currently modding FO4, Skyrim SE and Skyrim VR lol.
omg, you hit the nail on the head at 4:15, I've stopped using mods and you just made me realize why "it feels like you're constantly chasing perfection" but never getting 'there' is frustrating.
Unfortunately, this might be the most negative aspect of modding. The desire to keep improving never ends, and sometimes this can kill the enjoyment of the game.
I truly enjoy modding and I disagree with some points listed, but this one resonated. It's one of the reasons I play on the switch as well. It's uncomplicated!
i have 200 mods, but i spend little time modding compared to playing, i added mods through the years on 1.5.97 and i didn't update, i think people who gets obsessed with modding are doing it wrong, the goal is to enjoy the game not worry all the time about mods.
I agree with reason 1 (the consistency and style of the graphics).
I somewhat disagree with reason 2 (always chasing perfection and balance). Once I have a stable game, I don't mod until next playthrough.
For balance, there exist a few mod suites that are balanced around each other.
For reason 3 (some mods break lore), I enjoy a bit of lore, but I am not a lore buff, so small discrepancies don't bother me.
There do exist very lore-friendly mods, but you can't tell them apart at first glance, you have to do your research.
About reason 4 (always something new to discover), I got all achievements, played on legendary, completed a large part of the side quests, got to very high level on my fist playthrough.
A lot of quests don't have meaningful choices to count them as something new.
I think that there will be always something new to see and discover, but mods can bring a lot more.
For reason 5 (modding is tedious), I enjoy the process of modding.
Some may not and if they agree with you on all previous points there are still some lightly modded lists that fix bugs, improve balance and adhere to the vanilla look.
I disagree with reason 6 (mod only because trying to recreate the magic of first playtrough). Not all people mod the game for this reason.
I mod it because Skyrim is a very good sandbox game and I want some more tools to play with, have a more balanced experience, while also having a bit better graphics.
All in all, your reasons for not modding Skyrim, to me look like guidelines on how to mod safely and try to improve, not completely change the experience.
You have to know what you want and not install everything.
Ultra-modded setups will suffer a lot more from the points you make than lighter ones.
Self-control is important to keep your game stable, balanced and still immersive.
I have watched many modded versions of Skyrim on TH-cam. It’s very interesting. I do love regular Skyrim. It’s beautiful and has a wonderful soundtrack.
There is a collection called gate of sovengard. It's well balanced even at hight level.
You are SO on point! Thank you man. I've spent way more time the last few years modding the game than actually playing it, for the exact reasons you mentioned. Thank mod for modlists though, saves a lot of time and you can easily switch between modlists.
Absolutely. I use mod lists as well, and there are aspects I'm satisfied with :)
Yesterday i launched skyrim with unbound and grass cache (testing) stuff, cabbage enb and nat weather only, because i wanted to test animations wich i'm done with, and man it looks so different!, I COULD SEE WHITERUN FROM AFAR, i was amazed at the details and how empty it looked without my modlist... it was a whole different game
I've been thinking a lot of the same stuff you've said in this video. Last year when I first played new vegas & skyrim i went into making modlists with the notion that there was always something that could be improved or fixed & it just ended in a disjointed, dopamine-chasing mess everytime. The more ive modded & understood about modding, ive come to appreciate the games for what they are despite their flaws. Now my modlists are fairly minimal, with the largest changes being the simonrim suite which doesnt stray too far from the original game & a few mods that expand upon vanilla quests.
Ahhh looking for engagement I see. Good hook for the title.
Im a console player and have been modding skyrim for half a decade now. Ive tried all sorts of load orders, yet my definitive load order is quite similar to the visual tone and feel of the original, but still touching on all aspects. Its just not a radical departure from the original vision as many popular mods and lists.
While Im a veteran at this point, Im also kinda lazy and dumb. At one point after the recent update my load order got jumbled up and Im yet to fix it. Im finally writing my skyrim LO, but its taking ages.
I have 304 plugins. Theres one table to sort mods by size and one to sort the load order. Skyrim on consoles requires you to download the big boys first because you need 2x the available size of the mod in the load order to install. So its basically 304 x2 listing name, size, author, category and link on bethnet
Im also creating 2 extra tabs, one with all the stuff I need to test when launching a new game, and other with setup info for mods and how to debug some stuff that may happen during a game
So yeah, sometimes vanilla seems pretty alluring lol.
Vanilla is not better. Modded Skyrim is simply better, that’s a fact.
My main gripe with modding mostly comes from the lack of good modding organizers as Nexus is the only ok-ish mod manager, and the mods almost always conflicts. So to avoid this I do mod collections, but nexus regularly takes some down, the reliability of them aren’t great, and if you use a massive one without nexus like Nolvus you are likely missing some favorites you like to play with… I also played some vanilla Skyrim and while decent the build imbalances really drag the gameplay down. Mages, spell swords, and stealth archers are great or too OP, while shield wielding, great weapons, and daggers are never worth the squeeze… hoping to try Ultima or Invictus soon and see how they differ.
I don 't use balance breaking cc mods, i unistalled them, i can't play skyrim without some difficulty mods etc, too easy otherwise, also some mods like the horses one and extended hotkeys etc are so useful. And others like Hammet dungeon pack, adds tons of high quality dungeons, some i think are better than bethesda ones.
yeah i agree, only use 10 mods and for me its great, the game itself is amazing.
Just installed Tuxborn modlist. Very tasteful but with more. Choices for mco or vanilla combat. Great list
I try to use only mods that give Skyrim a fuller feel...that does include Creation Club content...Some of the CC have been good in bringing things from the Elder Scroll lore...Because your right about the beauty of the game and the stories that is told in vanilla are original. You still can be different with different play throughs...without mods. I am not knocking mods they have their place in Skyrim.
As someone currently playing with a mod list, I'm not entirely against mods either. They enhance the experience of replaying Skyrim over and over again. Without mods, perhaps no one would keep coming back to Skyrim repeatedly.
I like simpler mods.... But I do use a few mods that I feel help with some of my vanilla irks....I hate only getting one flower, or only 3 ores from a vein. I do mess with attire a bit, but I use about 10 graphic mods mostly for shrines, rocks/stones and plant life. I even use a mod that adds some nordic recipes.....but I don't feel any are lore unfriendly or break immersion. I do use a gemstone mod that adds way too many gemstones, but I think it helps me with a thrill of collecting when collecting dubious daedric artifacts is counter to the type of character I normally play. I surely no longer use so many mods that breaking my game happens often..that is just a nightmare. For me, less mods is better, but many mods are simply too good to break from..at least for me.
I think there is a middle ground. I have a relatively lightly modded skyrim, including bug fixes, slight graphical improvements and tweaks on things that just didn't make sense to me in game (like why a farmer with an iron dagger would try and take on a dragon, etc.) I think there is a place for both lightly and heavily modded versions of the game, but for me the pure vanilla experience lacks polish (lest we forget backwards flying dragons, performance issues on ps4 and the broken 'blood on the ice' quest).
while i disagree with most of this video, i think point number 3 is kind of dumb. Bethesda has retconned and introduced so many plotholes with each new release of the elder scrolls game. The skyrim we see in tes v is almost nothing like the skyrim that was described in morrowind. Granted oblivion did the same, but atleast it introduced some cool new lore
reason 2 falls kind of flat to if you use nexus collections
The idea that the decisions made by developers years before for a game needs to restrict the creative decisions made by developers years later is a very dumb thing. People cry about retcons a lot. But it doesn't matter. Especially with Elder scrolls games where each game is set far apart from each other and the lore of the elder scrolls is all based on the different accounts of different people, much like real life.
The entire video is like that, there are no "reasons", it's just a lot of reaching for a point and using vague terminology like "diluted immersion" to support them while ignoring obvious solutions to obvious problems.
Lore snore... gimme tiddy, hair, and cloth physics, modernize the graphics, add in some combat mods to actually make it challenging and away i go!
@@xxmemewizardxxps2902 Don't you have to pay for that shit though? Then you end up with baggage you don't want. Like those retarded af looking spell wheel pentagram monstrosities everyone uses for spells. As if they look better than actually particle effects lol.
I've yet to play a modded game and I'm in no hurry to start.
I think mods are great for playthroughs that are not the first(s), to freshen things up.
Believe me you want go back lol. Bro bring up valid points but the mods clean up to much lil things and I’m telling you not goona want to go back to the old Skyrim after you got a hooded mod base situation going on
If you're playing on PC, I highly recommend SkyUI (or something similar) for a better inventory system (you don't have to scroll as much because you see more of your inventory at once and you have a cursor to point at things). I think it's the only one type of mod I can't play without (on PC) at all now.
I hear you James....I have bug fixes mods...I don't turn Skyrim into Aeon Flux....lol!!!
@@JohnBrown-ox8pl or Dark Souls, not that there's anything wrong with Dark Souls but it should stay in its franchise wile Elder Scrolls should stay Elder Scrolls
uhhh... Counterpoint Inigo, Lucien, Serana add-on and many more (i just really like good companions to go with)
Skyrim is 13 years old. Im playing with mods lol.
It becomes an addiction chasing perfection. My next mod/fix. One of the best things is Skyrim is simple. Adding mods adds new systems & too much complexity. It's best to fix graphics and add just mandatory immersive mods.
For me, a mild vanilla+ is great for visual mods and combat mods. I admire armour mods (there are some beautiful sets out there) but they mostly feel like they don't belong in the game. Skyrim is meant to be a run-down, war-torn, freezing province yet half of the mod videos I watch have people running around in super-shiny flawless gear or micro, jiggle physics bikinis. No hate, but they kinda take me out of the world. Quest mods are a different matter though. Mods that give more choice for existing quests are particularly fantastic for roleplaying. JaySerpa's mods for example are wonderful for roleplaying.
You've summarized the pros and cons of modding very well. I'm not completely against modding, but I wanted to highlight the issues you mentioned :)
You are right, my biggest problem with modding is it changing the aesthetic of the game and even worst the relaxing music
Tell me about a modded version of Skyrim going tits-up!
I'm going back a good few years now. 7 or 8 years ago. Spent a whole week downloading mods, testing, downloading and testing till after a whole week and hours of work, my game was ready.
Walked past Riverwood marvelling at the scenery, then on to Whiterun. To be, back then, it was stunning. But after about 45 mins worth of just walking about, I retired for the evening ready to go full Skyrim the following day.
And I know some are going to moan now, but I was using Vortex. I still do. It's one I understand... ish! I digress.
I opened Vortex and there was a message. Vortex needs an update. Lots of things need updates. So I updated it. Totally trashed Skyrim. Couldn't run it at all. Loads of fault messages kept appearing and as I'd installed some 500 mods, they kept coming.
So I removed every mod and uninstalled skyrim and for 8 years or so, I never touched it again.
And while I understand that the vanilla version is the complete game, I couldn't play Skyrim without decent looking people. _Especially the ladies!_
But as soon as you've got the people sorted out, then you need to _tweek_ a few trees. And grass. You can't _tweek_ trees without doing grass... And rocks. Rocks always need _tweeking._ And maybe that water too. The sky needs _tweeking_ too. And before you know where you are, you've downloaded 100 mods and you're remodding Skyrim for the umpteenthtime.
I can only assume that if you look at how long you've played Skyrim for on Steam, then 1/2 to 2/3rds of it, isn't actually playing it. It's modding it.
I'll freely admit now, that many years ago I did muck a bout with some rifle mods. But I soon removed them. But the mods I will _NOT_ implement are the fighting mods that make Skyrim feel like you've just jumped into some far Eastern Samurai game with all that jumping about. or mods that introduce overtly, oversized weapons. I don't even buy games where I see a character holding a sword that's 2 foot wide and 12 foot long. Or a hammer where the head is the size of an average anvil. They just do not appeal to me.
Good video though. So thank you.
I play both and I've got to say vanilla leaves me wanting for more
I agree with most people I can't play vanilla Skyrim anymore it too outdated. But I'm sick of the game constantly crashing when I try and use a mod list. I've noticed when I try and use a mod list that has 2k+ mods that my game will crash like every 20mins. And even the smaller mod lists the game still crashes every hour or so. Its frustrating and makes me give up on the game all together because I wont play the vanilla version and modded version keeps braking. And before someone comments well get a better PC or did you follow the installation instructions correctly. My response is yes I follow the instructions word for word and second my PC is fine to run any mod list out there.
Crashing every hour or so with a light load list = 100% shitty load order. Using LOOT alone can sort through 100 mods without issue if people take the time to read descriptions and not install like say... two lighting mods.
U should try lorerim,its one of the best mod packs out there and it stays true to skyrims lore. Lorerim address all the problems u where talking about,its been fully optimized and was designed to stay loyal to the lore hence the name lorerim
It’s not really a vanilla plus modpack tho. If you want that then play gate to sovngarde. The only bad thing about GTS is that it’s a vortex collection. :(. Otherwise, lorerim is a good choice if you hate Skyrim’s combat and want something challenging.
Now, I use Eldregleam. I’ll try Lorerim in the next weeks :)
I’m planning on playing vanilla when the release date for tes 6 gets announced
Play vanilla and then mod the game if you have problems or just want to add new stuff.
06:28 this is why the only "lore-friendly" mod I install is Vigilant, and it's literally Dark Souls with the Elder Scrolls lore.
I'm agree with this, many lore-friendly mods end up being not so lore-friendly, thats why I personally avoid them, and instead, I go for things that changes combat, instead adding a "lore-friendly" mod that literally adds made up concepts or the modder's opinion about something of the game.
Lorerim stays lore friendly
My problem with most mods is they usually go too far in what I want them to do.
Player Homes is a great example. I love being able to pick up every item, and replace them with my own decorations. Modders like Elianora love to make static items to decorate their homes, because it looks nice, but in doing so, kind of kills all their mods for me. Obviously this is super subjective, and a "me" problem, but most mods have something similar.
You'll install something like the Immersive Saber mod for Starfield. I want the sabers, but they also took the liberty of adding lightsaber perks that change game balance. It comes from a good place. Each mod author wants to make their mod the coolest, deepest thing ever, and It may be, but not for me.
You make some good points, and I always encourage players to experience the vanilla game before modding (even quality of life mods). However, your lore argument is an interesting one that, while I may have agreed with you in the past, doesn't hold true when even Bethesda has shown that they cannot and will not respect their own lore.
Personally before starting this video I believe that Skyrim without mods is great and is probably better without them anyway like there's a reason everyone came to Skyrim it was the elder scrolls that everyone loved but simplified so more generalist players could get into it I used to hate DND and all that garbage but now i think it's okay only because Skyrim opened my eyes sure it was jank but what game from that time wasn't and sure modding it could be great but I don't think that adding all that in brings anything more to the game than what's there you don't play Skyrim just to mess around you play it for adventure
i agree with all of this which is why i try to keep it as vanilla plus as possible.
that being said reason 3 is a little harder to justify 100%. Bethesda intentionally makes lore breaking changes to the story so it can continue but in doing so breaks many seemingly important events in the process. kind of like neir automata is a continuation of drakenguards bad ending. more people played nier over drakenguard (me included) nier is now the main lore making drakenguard the alternate. while i agree some mods are really disjointed others that try to tie in to the story aren't necessarily diluting it. its like a perception filter two people cant always see things exactly the same.
An example of vanillas lorebreak is serana herself according to lore enthusiasts she is impossible unless she isn't really trapped in that dungeon, wasn't paying attention to world events like she claims. if she isnt trapped in the dungeon that makes the rest of dawnguard nonsensical as well since her protecting the elder scroll in that dungeon is the lynchpin of the story. so some suspension of belief is required anyway otherwise your choosing to trust and follow a pathological liar (or someone with dementia) to a literal den of vampires.
Man out here dropping a friggin' truth bomb EVERY Skyrim player needs to hear. Personally, I am a victim of endless modding. When I bought Skyrim in 2012, I played vanilla for 800+ hours. After that, most of my time was spent fooling around (literally fooling around) with mods. Between LE and SE/AE, it's been over 6,674.4 hours, and concerning the vanilla content, I've never gotten further in the main quest than the point just after you complete "Diplomatic Immunity," *_in 12 years and 11 months._* It's pitiful. I've tried my hand at vanilla in the present day MANY times, but to no avail. My pacing is bad. It only takes proper pacing. I feel pacing is lacking in most things these days. Bless you and your TH-cam channel(s). 🗿
When I first started manually modding, I couldn't progress past the same quest for a long time, and it became a very frustrating situation. Luckily, when I started to develop the idea of a TH-cam channel in my mind, I decided to finish the game :))
Reason Nr 1 Goes both ways… as Modding is usually meant to expand upon the game and give you a fresh/refreshing experience
Reason Nr 2 Totally agree on that one. Even though you can complete a mod list and have everything work as intended, all the mods available incentivise you to get another small immersion improvement. And another small tweak there, and another there… etc
Reason 3, Super vague, personalised, very bad point honestly
Reason 4, Also kinda personalised but probably true for most people
Reason 5, This should be the main reason for someone to decide if they wanna mod Skyrim or not. If you want to have a good experience with modded Skyrim, you will have to sink in hours of time configuring, fixing, patching, play-testing etc. if you’re unwilling to do that you will most likely end up with a partially or fully broken game and a botched experience as a result of it.
Reason 6, Disagree, if done right my play throughs only feel better and more magical while still benefitting from the nostalgia of previous playthroughs. Immerse yourself and set your own goals and you will enjoy every play through more than before
Most of these can be fixed if you use a modpack, that’s where it feels complete.
skyrim should be played without mods atleast once IMO after that people should be let be
Most people go straight to modding and don’t know shit about the game. That’s why most people are unsatisfied.
dude your underrated keep up the good content
That's such a heartwarming comment, thank you!🤗
Nice opinion but when I see unfinished terrain at the bottom of a mountain where the rock texture don’t reach the surface that “finished state” loses credibility
You're absolutely right. It's clear that Bethesda has issues with these kinds of details.
I only try to use mods that I think fit the developer's intention for the game.
I love Vanilla Skyrim, but after 1500 hrs, I know what I want in this game. Ive done many playthroughs, and I bought a pc to learn how to mod. But what always irked me is MCO. Even in your video with Nulvus, what is seens as "Modern combat" removes mechanics of both skyrim and modern games. Then you have th myth that Skyrim combat is boring, yet people praise Mount and Blade. The difference is the punishment, and people mod it out with a system that allows you to do a full combo on an enemy that cant use invincibility frames or react. You take an MCO user in Vanilla Skyrim, they will use companions or run away and heal instead of actual dodging, blocking, and using the environment. I get bashed on it alot but the true fact is...alot of people SUCK at playing Skyrim.
I agree with your criticism of MCO. I’ve tried to solve this issue in my personal game for a long time
Vanilla is the original vision of the developers. Regardless of what you think about it, that fact alone makes it "better".
Eh... debatable.
I definitely believe that new players should do vanilla 2016 SE
Modding any game is a pain. Modding brings crashes, burnout, stress. Sometimes I envy nornal skyrim and how good weather and atmosphere look. If I had to play Skyrim, it would just be SE or AE. But I use mods, so I always have to keep it on the edge of not crashing.
Meh i cant stand to even look at vanilla skyrim anymore, its so fugly, clunky and still somewhat buggy.
Thats why for years i modded it to hell and back on my own whims, but after taking a break and several updates, that list broke.
Now i'm playing Jay Serpa's "Gate to Sovngarde" with my own tweaks and additions and it cant get much better than that if you want immersion and still some good performance imho.
You've chosen a nice mod list. Gate To Sovngarde is a mod list that doesn't alter vanilla Skyrim too much :)
@@TheGaming_Man
Indeed! :)
I'm at the point where i'll likely just get some dudes modpack next go lol. As addicting as modding is, it does get redundant and a lot of the time I just want to hop in and not play dev and personal play testers for 2 fking weeks lol.
Interesting take and some valid points. Although I doubt if anyone who mods Skyrim or plays it modded needs to be told that stability might be compromised. Not to mention the amount of mods that actually fix a lot of bugs and stability issues. Ditto the issue of lore-correctness or otherwise.
Why the strawman clickbait title though?
1. Alternate Start
2. Weather Mod
3. (optional) Bigger Trees
You're done, go enjoy Skyrim
I played Skyrim a lot like that with few mods, mostly graphics, but I always add Requiem and AZ tweaks, 3 Tweaks etc. I can't play Skyrim without it.
4. Skyui 😄
sky ui
alternate start
any mod to remove hud
aurora modpack
Forget Alt Start and go Lorkhan. Once you go to the Realm of Lorkhan you never go back.
Eh, people who mod poorly mod poorly.
I’ve spent years dealing with vanilla Skyrim’s sh*t. Having mods like Mysticism, Thaumaturgy, Apothecary, Better Vampires, etc. that improve the objectively outdated if not poorly designed aspects of Skyrim are fantastic personally.
I understand the second reason, but for people like me whose mods overhaul features to such an extent that there is no need for further modification. The only subsequent downloads (at least for me) are only new quest mods. All of the gameplay and story has already been enhanced to an acceptable level.
Everyone’s different, but I make sure every single mod in my load order abides by the established lore of the Elder Scrolls franchise. If it breaks it, I no longer want it.
Sure, the things I’ve already done time and time again. Now all of my quest lines have alternative endings, I have 7 brand new entire worlds to explore..you get it.
I agree that modding can be a chore, but you get the proper load order, put in the time to get feedback and be willing to manually patch things, you’re set.
Screw recapturing nostalgia, I want BETTER. Better than what Bethesda sh*t out in 2011. I want a game that feels like it was made by Homo sapiens of the year 2024.
I get where you’re coming from, and I’m glad you enjoy vanilla Skyrim. It is one of if not the most influential and perhaps important RPGs ever created, but I’m not that kid who only ran on hills because I thought high elves were called that because they like being elevated anymore. I have played games released in the modern age. I have played games whose systems don’t allow you to over-exploit and pretty much cheat the whole game. I’ve played games where every single perk has genuine importance to the build you’re attempting to play. I’ve played games where I can actually get invested in my companions and they have actual stories.
Vanilla Skyrim is far behind me, and a lot of other people, but it is still deep within others like you. It is still magical and expansive and that is beautiful. But everything in this list, at least to me, are symptoms of a greedy modder who has 0 plan of what they want in a play through and who have a poor load order.
No.
Those people who think that modding Skyrim is a bad thing are people who play RPGs solely for the story and just for the story and graphics from point A to point B. Skyrim + mods can create a game that is not likely to be released for a long time considering what kind of games are coming out… Yes, you can improve the graphics, but what if everything else was improved first? Adding difficulty, fixing issues, improving the economy, survival, and so on, and you don’t need 1000 2000 5000 mods for that.”
Only takes about 10 mods to get the game looking modern with an ENB, after that if you want to go minimalist... shit, about 20-30 more to make combat an actual challenge and fixes for bs Bugthesda never bothered to patch.
The best mods are the ones that improve the core Experience of Skyrim and ad more depth to it. You can keep your anime waifu gooner mods lol
Vanila game is clearly outdated, will never return, just too boring. Only mods keep me playing til now.
I consider nordic souls to be vanilla skyrim if it were released in 2019 instead of 2011. I'm a huge fan of all the elderscrolls games (my first and still favorite is morrowind) but Bethesda is far from perfect and just like the two previous games (morrowind/oblivion) it's far from a "complete game" I've crashed more playing base skyrim than I have with nordic souls.
100% recommend nordic souls for everyone that has beat skyrim.
and for those worried, nordic souls isn't a soulslike... it's just a name and it has 0 attachment to that game style. It's literally just skyrim 2.0
Well, I don't get too hung up about the lore. Just like Bethesda! :D
I love playing Skyrim, never added anything, mods, creation club, nothing. It's a great game and I love playing, why mess with that?
I tend to not participate in streams or youtube content that includes mods.it makes the experience inconsistent. Play the game or don't. If I see a streamer or VOD that includes mods I cannot relate.
"play the game or don't"
no
Great video!
Thank you!🙂
@@TheGaming_Man you're welcome
Sorry i can’t agree as I can have a goat deliver my mail in modded Skyrim…
Hahaha, sometimes you just need to let things get out of hand! :)
I still raw dog Skyrim without mods. As someone who just got a Bachelor degree in 3d animation Im too bothered about the way mods alter the art style. Take White Run as example. The wood of the houses is cracked, dry and bleeched, with a little bit of moss growing in the crevices. That is how the dry, arid tundra environment is supposed to effect how wood ages.
Yeah wood ages like that... and tiddys don't bounce like water beds... yet i still go full physics mode why? Because it's FUN!
Im stickin to my mods on Skyrim I have Xbox and that’s the only game I got with mod support on Xbox
just play whatever you want, though if you started modded, and you liked it i would RECOMMEND you to experience vanilla, as i said play whatever you want, i can only recommend, not tell you what to play, this discussion over modders and vanilla puritans it's just something stupid going on in the community for a while (also I'm not criticizing the video either, I'm just giving my point of view)
I understand what you mean, and I agree :) Thank you for sharing your opinion.
While I do enjoy vanilla, the modding community has shown just how lazy Bethesda was in creating their game.Bethesda could have added so much more to the game over the years but just let moders do it for free, which is cool of Bethesda BUT still shows how much MORE they could have done. Modding also allows all different types of players to enjoy Skyrim. For instance, Im playing Gate to Sovngarde and love its realism and the fact its much more difficult than vanilla. Others love list that focus on flashy 3rd person combat, I love 1st person immersion...mods allow us all to enjoy the game...
What you said is absolutely right, thank you for sharing your thoughts!
This is irritating to me. Yes Bugthesda are pretty lazy, but comparing what modders are doing in 2024 to what devs had to work with in 2011 is just bullshit.
@@EQOAnostalgia Its not bullshit when Betheshda COULD be pushing out equally impressive content to the game INSTEAD of relying on modders to do it and all THEY do is re-release the game in differing versions.
Anyone knows the armor mod at 4:25?
As much as how cool lots of the modern 3rd person combat mods and animations are nowadays, I still feel that the game engine itself simply isn’t built for type of play style. Vanilla third person combat is trash. It’s obvious Bethesda intended the game to be played in first person.
I mean in my opinion , heavily modded skyrim is not performance friendly anymore, is not worth it to me anymore
There are well performing modlists with 100's of mods for every rig type basically. So that's an odd take.
@@EQOAnostalgia i guess i should say "modern and heavy (wabbajack like or takes more than 500 mods+ where 100 mods its for bug fixes etc)" ,im sure modern modlist has perfomance friendly aswell where it dont use 2k-4k texture so it dont tax the vram so much...
Well said
i really hate most modpack make skyrim like another soul like game
those combat mod ruined skyrim
i love skyrim firsperson combat
and 3rd person just need little bit touch and that's it like precision mod
or probably enhancement mod like the one in requiem modpack
8GB of RAM is better than 16GB 😅 (please don't take this seriously, just a little joke)
And there's me that actually got obsessed to Skyrim 2 y ago thanks to mods as I never been able to get into it in its vanilla form. haha
Then you never actually experienced Skyrim
@@AimForMyHead81 No no I did.I tried .... I just didn't like it raw :)
@@AimForMyHead81 The only thing that I actually didn't experience is Skyrim when it got release and that something that only people who did can understand and I think that's what you are referring to. Skyrim as it is , probably in incredible experience when it came out. Me when I started getting into video games was in 2022, therefore I actually needed a few mods to make it easier on the eye. ( and at the time I was playing on PS5 so it was mostly vanilla ++)
@@AimForMyHead81 He just didn't like it.
There are modpacks that are lite.
Meh... just no 👎
Have you ever finished every quest in the game? Just asking, because if I use my own mod list it never happens, vanilla Skyrim or a modpack is way more complete.
@@LandonGasaoI’ve come close as a kid
@LandonGasao I only played 3 games consistently in the past 10 years. Fallout NV, skyrim and Fallout 4. It is possible, to do everything in skyrim and Fallout.
@@LandonGasaoI’ve done literally everything in Skyrim so many times. So I definitely always have mods these days just to spice it up. Not that many to be fair, but I’ve found things like Hunterborn & Campfire definitely enhance the experience after you’ve played the game to death lol I like slowing down the game as much as possible these days, these definitely do that when paired with legendary & survival modes.
This will sound mean, but it kinda sounds like you just really wanted to get a video out, lmao. The whole premise is acting like modders don't like (or play) Vanilla and that's simply not the case, for most the veterans in that scene. Mod play, Mod using, Modlist creating are all hobbies of one sort or another. They don't exist to cheapen or ruin the original experience.
Any Gamebryo game has enough bugs to kill the patience of a Doctor, which is why modding got hot in the first place.
However, playing Skyrim AE, with only the dlc provided does feel like a true "Game of The Year" edition of a title from 2011.
I actually agree
Sounds like your un-modded voice! Already automatically best video you've made. Nohate. I play your longer comps in the bg. I like the remixes. Are you ready to do older lore like Mannimarco?
Thank you! I plan to make longer videos more frequently. I hope to cover lore from other Elder Scrolls games as well, like Mannimarco :)
Naur
Without mods skyrim die 10yr ago
Since Fallout 4 and the implementation of the Creation Club, Bethesda games are no longer mod friendly. Yes, they allow for mods, but everytime they update the game with each new launch of Creation Club content, mods from earlier builds of the game can break.
So unless the unpaid modders keep going back to their mods and update them for the newest build of the game, more and more free mods will begin lacking behind. I dont see why a modder, working for free, would come back and update their content every quarter of a year. Skyrim has been out for 13 years now, and Bethesda are still updating the game with new patches.
anybody who has been modding their game even for a month or so knows how to prevent their game from getting updated. Stop crying.
@@shaunaqpaul3078 And which build of the game should I run? Which is the version of the game you have, where all the mods are working perfectly? Because last I checked, there were 20 different versions, with mods working for some of them, but never all of them. I have been modding Bethesda games for 18 years. It's not like I dont know what I'm talking about.
@@christiankaiser3885 This is just a bad point lol. Most people know how to prevent that and most mods are updated, and most that are not do not even use the script extender and updates are not needed. My entire load order from 5 years ago STILL works today on any version i choose.
mad respect brother but this is the dumbest shit i ever heard
WHY?
It varies from person to person, just a matter of perspective :)
im just being a silly billy man :) take it easy
Vanilla lacks game loops and is a sad excuse for a sandbox 😂 I've first got Skyrim on PS3 back in the day and it's easily ine of the worst games I've played at a time. Devoid of content, empty world with garbage writing and criminally bad questline and side quests. The "freedom" came down to walking around and killing shit - that's it. Not to mention abysmal combat system that is as bad as it has been in Morrowind over a decade beforehand. Not to mention absolutely garbage UI rumbed down for gamepad use. There is a reason why everyone and their mother played stealth bow build or as a mage 😂 I will honestly never understand why Skyrim reached such hrights of popularity on consoles, the game is beyond abysmal without heavy modding...
you clearly arent the target audience then. Let people play what they want and go play whatever you think is good. Idk why you even clicked on this video tbh
facny mods i hate i agree but mods i like is ok
I got stroke reading this
yeah right. You'll be back to a modded playthrough by tomorrow
Unfortunately, for my content to attract attention, the visuals need to be modded. Plus, I’ve finished the vanilla version multiple times. I have the right to mod it :)
🎉🎉🎉🎉
More than half of these problems can be solved by using nexus collections lol. And even if you don't like mods the bug fix mods are great and don't touch anything base game related even tho and lets be real Skyrim is still getting content that Bethesda is profiting off of and they still wont fix year old "features". I guess its a good thing tho look at what they did to fallout 4's last update.
😅
Bro who cares
Be careful my good sir! Praising Bethesda for making a game we all love may result in the undesirable terminally online zombies to crawl out of the bushes and come attack you!!
I always praise Bethesda. Yes, some of their actions might be wrong, and some of their games can be quite buggy, but it’s Bethesda who brought us unforgettable experiences with games like the Elder Scrolls series and Skyrim. Despite the negatives, I respect them. Even if a game like Starfield isn’t as well-received, I’ll still be eagerly waiting for everything they release. Thanks for the warning, but I don’t pay much attention to those zombies :)