I know someone that bought a 2023 Tiffin Wayfarer and it has been terrible. Had multiple plumbing leaks, multiple roof leaks, Electrical problems, entry door problems, water pump replaced twice, Problem with the awning, problem with the heater and more. She took it to Red Bay to get fixed because the local dealer was not able to fix all the problems. She stayed there and more problems developed while she was there. Feel for her and I hope they finally address all the issues.
Our 2023 Phaeton 40IH is almost exactly the same with some minor differences. Ours also has fully hydraulic slides, but only three large solar panels. We do have a large TV over the dash, bonquet dinette, and bus style windows. We do not have the emergency door at the headboard but a larger window across for possible emergencies. We are an all electric bus as well, with heated porcelain floors. I wish we had the outdoor kitchen on one of our two expansive slides, however. You have made me appreciate my Phaeton even more. Most all the interior lights can be made to dim by holding the buttons an extra second or two. We also have radar accident reduction which can begin braking and work off the cruise control. I'm still learning the systems and dealing with their complexities. Thanks for the tour.
I’ve been an RV tech for 4 decades. I’ve done thousands of “PDIs” or pre- delivery inspections. It is done on all new units before being delivered to the customer. It’s also done on used units depending on the conditions of the purchase by the customer.We inspect every aspect of the coach like he is doing here. Build quality overall is better than it used to be but it depends on the manufacturer. Some are clearly more concerned with profits than quality. Best piece of advice I can give is do your research before buying, research the product and the dealership. There is junk out there but there is also some very well built coaches.
I know lots of folks like Tiffin coaches. When I took a factory tour about 4 or 5 years ago now I was not terribly impressed. The thing that struck me the most was the poor welds. Their welders were running their welders too hot and blowing holes in the 1 in. square tubing and hot filling them in. They put foam in the ends of the tube, apparently to keep moisture out, but with holes in the tubes I don't see where this was effective. Just my observations. I did mention it to Bob Tiffin so maybe it's been fixed, I don't know. Can't say I'm a fan of the polished floors but that's a personal thing. Keep the good stuff coming.
James, I can't say the same for their Gas models. I've inspected several 2022/2023 and the quality was abysmal ! I did one with 3 slides and every rubber seal molding/ trim piece was detaching from the sidewalls on all 3 slides both sides. Water damaged slide roofs from screws that were never sealed and the sidewall sealants were either missing all together, cracked or had large gaps. Fiberglass roofs that had small chips, cracks or both. Bowed and or detaching wall panels on the inside. Glad to see their Phateons are holding up....
For $400k bucks I'd expect the roof to be a little more tidy without the remnants lying around. I know operationally it's of no concern of course. But for that amount of money, they could offer more of what I would refer to as craftmanship in the application of the sealants - similar to a welder that is picky about that roll of dimes look.... if you know what I mean.
Great review James. I love the 2024 Tiffin motorhome you showcased . I for one would be glad to purchase it but would have to wait a couple of years yet because the price is a little out of my reach .
James, Do an experiment please. Take a solar panel and put some blobs of Dicor on it similar to on two of these and see what happens. That should be cleaned off. Best wishes, Kevin
Polished gloss floor tile is sexy as hell, right up til you have to run in the coach during a rainstorm. Also, I'll be interested in seeing how those sidewalls hold up with all that dark color paint. LG is facing possible class-action for those refrigerators, I believe.
One of our traveling partners have the glorious opportunity to upgrade their Pheaton to a 2022 allegro bus. Similar floor plan and footprint to their old Pheaton. The bus has a solar system very much like the one you just inspected. The problem is the installation allows the panels to receive way too much shade. Further the factory battery bank is woefully inadequate for any kind of off-grid living. Then replace the factory batteries with 6 or 800 amps of lithium and still he has to run his generator every day because even out in Quartzsite he wasn't getting nearly enough solar charge to keep up with a high demands of that coach. At the same time we have our meager little 600 watts on our coach with of course a gas electric fridge and we had no problem keeping up. When tiffin collects North of $600,000 for a coach it would behoove them to develop a rack mount for that solar that keeps the panels up out of the shade. Those Girard awnings with the phone covers on the opposing side make that roof a shade pit.
@@AZExpert RV America Y'all had an amazing frame built up in Indiana at like RV MASTERS or something like that. They raised it to the point you can open vents under it. Couple thousand watts.
Do the tile floors get slippery when wet? ie, getting out of shower or from rain when coming in from outside. I am worried about falling. I always appreciate your videos.
Yes, they do get slippery but our Goldendoodle has found them manageable. Some carpets might be in order, but you might have to stow them when using the heated floors. But they are beautiful and easy to care for.
I am not a great fan of vinyl flooring. We usually have a small carpet at the entryway. A throw down towel also if it's pouring out. Not really that slippery if using some care. Just great looking.
Please Correct me if I am wrong, but at 9:18 the wires on the bottom of the box is open for water to gain access into the coach and needs to be address and sealed.
Any idea what epoxy they use on the solar mounts? We have a gelcoat roof too - On ours I used Click Bond stainless studs and Methacrylate adhesive to bolt down unistrut and then just mounted all the panels on the rails. The Click Bond studs are pretty neat - Boeing uses them to mount things to airplane skins. The Methacrylate is still very secure (its been a couple years). Only issue there is that its ok for exterior, but not UV. I coated the edges with some dicor just to keep the sun off even though theres no penetration through the roof.. So far so good.
I can’t say I’m super impressed with Tiffin as you could be looking at one of five or ten years ago. There’s no incentive to redesign the interior or indeed the exterior. The roof of a brand new RV might not be falling apart but it’s a complete mess and really needs a redesign to enhance the experience and longevity and it’s tatty even as new. Some of the older models are better in my opinion and built by professionals that really care. I don’t think I’ve ever seen better builds than the Amish carpenters and they really do stand the test of time. On the whole I’d say it’s not the most exciting motorhome I’ve ever seen but should it appeal to some go for it after some heavy negotiations. I would also point out that the rear toilet is not functional and needs replacing. It’s pretty disgusting to see a new coach with a stained toilet before it’s even sold. The flush is clearly inadequate and needs a rethink. Well thank you for your opinion & advice James. I always appreciate your input and feedback.
@@AZExpert You would honestly think that they would make an effort to show their RVS at peak quality but they don’t seem to care. It’s just a flavour of the industry today when they should be doing everything possible to stay relevant to their brand and customers. With many brands merging and others going bankrupt we need a new breed of people that can adapt to the needs of the future and enhance the quality that built their reputation in the first place. It seems as though you either need to be a multimillionaire or be treated like a second class citizen and accept what you’re given. I have an idea that I would like to discuss with you. We either need to wait until I’m in America or I’d be happy to call you especially if you have WhatsApp. Please let me know 😉✨⭐️💫
That's why I always steer real folks away from a new coach. A quality built well taken care of 20 + year coach will give decades of reliable service and be within the price range of a normal American!
No sealant under the screws on the roof edges, and screws not fully seated is a problem. Also, an inspector shouldn't be rushed because they have to "get down the road" That isn't acceptable/fair to the customer. Especially when you turn your inspection video into a features video.
Thanks for the input, you're welcome to pay for a full day inspection and for my 2 extra hours stuck in cross town traffic on the next on. I"d like to know how you'd like me to insist that the dealer hold the RV and employees available until you deem the inspection time was adequate.
Hello James I am trying not to go into a rant, but it’s very hard We downsize from the Newmar class A Diesel And this have been a very disappointment The Tiffin Wayfair on the Mercedes chassis. Love the Mercedes so far no issues. But on the other hand The build quality of the Wayfair Have not been our best experience Finding out that the plumbing is nothing more than rubber hose looks like garden hose That’s sad And the problems go on and on in the build I’m going to stop at this point The Wayfair are not built at the red bay plant is built at a separate plant Problem with quality control
If you get an Rv with that toilet you better replace that thing immediately or just give up and go back to pull ups cause that thing isn’t gonna flush a square of toilet paper 😂🤦♂️ who designs something like that and says it’s good? My mom and stepdad bought a 2008 bounder 35h brand new when I was a kid and the pipe on the second or rear toilet is so small and it has to work on vacuum I would be afraid to use it… if you go in there they say number 1 only! 😂
Actually, Chris, we have a bidet on that unit and we're able to put as much water in it for flushing as we think we need. It has had no problem yet, and the bowl has cleaned itself usually with one flush. It would be better if they installed a pressure sprayer with the unit, if you own it w/o a bidet. It is very quiet though.
I know someone that bought a 2023 Tiffin Wayfarer and it has been terrible. Had multiple plumbing leaks, multiple roof leaks, Electrical problems, entry door problems, water pump replaced twice, Problem with the awning, problem with the heater and more. She took it to Red Bay to get fixed because the local dealer was not able to fix all the problems. She stayed there and more problems developed while she was there. Feel for her and I hope they finally address all the issues.
That’s disappointing I’m a fan of the Wayfarer I just sold my 2016 Tiffin 32SA and if I was going to buy another I would look at a the wayfarer
@@stevest.martin3940 She is still at the service center and there were several other ones there also.
Sir A/Z I'm looking at a 2009 Contesa are they OK? . What do I look for with the C9 Cat power plant .
Looks nice for new, would never buy brand new nowadays. Fell in love with those 90's non-slide provost buses you inspected.
Don't forget those Country Coach Concepts!
I enjoy your videos. The down to business and fact filled videos
Our 2023 Phaeton 40IH is almost exactly the same with some minor differences. Ours also has fully hydraulic slides, but only three large solar panels. We do have a large TV over the dash, bonquet dinette, and bus style windows. We do not have the emergency door at the headboard but a larger window across for possible emergencies. We are an all electric bus as well, with heated porcelain floors. I wish we had the outdoor kitchen on one of our two expansive slides, however. You have made me appreciate my Phaeton even more. Most all the interior lights can be made to dim by holding the buttons an extra second or two. We also have radar accident reduction which can begin braking and work off the cruise control. I'm still learning the systems and dealing with their complexities. Thanks for the tour.
Sounds like u have a sweet ride. 🍻
Thank you, thats great to hear about the 2023 slides too.
It just shows how RV built quality even on high end units have gone down, that a brand new RV needs an inspection.
I’ve been an RV tech for 4 decades. I’ve done thousands of “PDIs” or pre- delivery inspections. It is done on all new units before being delivered to the customer. It’s also done on used units depending on the conditions of the purchase by the customer.We inspect every aspect of the coach like he is doing here. Build quality overall is better than it used to be but it depends on the manufacturer. Some are clearly more concerned with profits than quality. Best piece of advice I can give is do your research before buying, research the product and the dealership. There is junk out there but there is also some very well built coaches.
this fellow seems to be an excellent candidate to launch a new series; buy this rv, not that rv.
Imagine a new Lexus having those finish aesthetics.
Love the Purple! WOW the solar.
I know lots of folks like Tiffin coaches. When I took a factory tour about 4 or 5 years ago now I was not terribly impressed. The thing that struck me the most was the poor welds. Their welders were running their welders too hot and blowing holes in the 1 in. square tubing and hot filling them in. They put foam in the ends of the tube, apparently to keep moisture out, but with holes in the tubes I don't see where this was effective. Just my observations. I did mention it to Bob Tiffin so maybe it's been fixed, I don't know. Can't say I'm a fan of the polished floors but that's a personal thing. Keep the good stuff coming.
Thanks for the tour James
Wow, she is big for sure. Thanks Don
Hi James, love your knowledge and experience, Thank you so much for sharing.
Doug from Vegas
Thanks for watching!
James, I can't say the same for their Gas models. I've inspected several 2022/2023 and the quality was abysmal ! I did one with 3 slides and every rubber seal molding/ trim piece was detaching from the sidewalls on all 3 slides both sides. Water damaged slide roofs from screws that were never sealed and the sidewall sealants were either missing all together, cracked or had large gaps. Fiberglass roofs that had small chips, cracks or both. Bowed and or detaching wall panels on the inside. Glad to see their Phateons are holding up....
What's not to love about this rig with its nice looking sporty exterior colors!
Good looking Phaeton. Thanks for the tour James. Happy trails!
Thanks, you too!
For $400k bucks I'd expect the roof to be a little more tidy without the remnants lying around. I know operationally it's of no concern of course. But for that amount of money, they could offer more of what I would refer to as craftmanship in the application of the sealants - similar to a welder that is picky about that roll of dimes look.... if you know what I mean.
Great review James. I love the 2024 Tiffin motorhome you showcased . I for one would be glad to purchase it but would have to wait a couple of years yet because the price is a little out of my reach .
Thought at first the title said 2024 Thor quality remains strong!, was going to give you crap- oh thats right Tiffin is Thor now!
James, Do an experiment please. Take a solar panel and put some blobs of Dicor on it similar to on two of these and see what happens. That should be cleaned off. Best wishes, Kevin
Over the years I’ve gone from “why does he waste so much time on the roof?” to “let’s get to that roof, I don’t care how good it looks down below!”
😂 👍🍻
That's a good-looking coach. Thanks James.
Glad you like it
To walk around with a hat like that, he must not be camera shy! 😂
They should all be this quality. If you can't afford a Tiffin you can't afford a Class A motor home.
LOL I have a Kenyon grill on my boat. You just need to get used to the touch “screen.” It’s different than most other touch screens.
Beautiful coach! Now to find $400k to purchase it! 😳 ~Big C in the DP 📢 ::: Air Horn 📢 ::: ::: Air Breaks! ::: 🚌🚌🚌
Polished gloss floor tile is sexy as hell, right up til you have to run in the coach during a rainstorm.
Also, I'll be interested in seeing how those sidewalls hold up with all that dark color paint.
LG is facing possible class-action for those refrigerators, I believe.
One of our traveling partners have the glorious opportunity to upgrade their Pheaton to a 2022 allegro bus. Similar floor plan and footprint to their old Pheaton. The bus has a solar system very much like the one you just inspected. The problem is the installation allows the panels to receive way too much shade. Further the factory battery bank is woefully inadequate for any kind of off-grid living. Then replace the factory batteries with 6 or 800 amps of lithium and still he has to run his generator every day because even out in Quartzsite he wasn't getting nearly enough solar charge to keep up with a high demands of that coach. At the same time we have our meager little 600 watts on our coach with of course a gas electric fridge and we had no problem keeping up. When tiffin collects North of $600,000 for a coach it would behoove them to develop a rack mount for that solar that keeps the panels up out of the shade. Those Girard awnings with the phone covers on the opposing side make that roof a shade pit.
I agree with you about the solar, seems to be a better possiblity with the awnings and side valance there too.
@@AZExpert RV America Y'all had an amazing frame built up in Indiana at like RV MASTERS or something like that. They raised it to the point you can open vents under it. Couple thousand watts.
I like your telescoping ladder. Can you share who makes it and how tall it reaches?
Do the tile floors get slippery when wet? ie, getting out of shower or from rain when coming in from outside. I am worried about falling.
I always appreciate your videos.
Yes, they do get slippery but our Goldendoodle has found them manageable. Some carpets might be in order, but you might have to stow them when using the heated floors. But they are beautiful and easy to care for.
@@JohnJohnson-hl1vi Too dangerous for me, I would have to replace the floor.
I am not a great fan of vinyl flooring. We usually have a small carpet at the entryway. A throw down towel also if it's pouring out. Not really that slippery if using some care. Just great looking.
Please Correct me if I am wrong, but at 9:18 the wires on the bottom of the box is open for water to gain access into the coach and needs to be address and sealed.
Any idea what epoxy they use on the solar mounts? We have a gelcoat roof too - On ours I used Click Bond stainless studs and Methacrylate adhesive to bolt down unistrut and then just mounted all the panels on the rails. The Click Bond studs are pretty neat - Boeing uses them to mount things to airplane skins. The Methacrylate is still very secure (its been a couple years). Only issue there is that its ok for exterior, but not UV. I coated the edges with some dicor just to keep the sun off even though theres no penetration through the roof.. So far so good.
likely just smc body panel adhesive
What brand telescopic ladder you use James and height? Ohh and I do have a Tiffin 2020 40IP, love it!
I feel like a red headed step child! 😂
I can’t say I’m super impressed with Tiffin as you could be looking at one of five or ten years ago. There’s no incentive to redesign the interior or indeed the exterior. The roof of a brand new RV might not be falling apart but it’s a complete mess and really needs a redesign to enhance the experience and longevity and it’s tatty even as new.
Some of the older models are better in my opinion and built by professionals that really care. I don’t think I’ve ever seen better builds than the Amish carpenters and they really do stand the test of time. On the whole I’d say it’s not the most exciting motorhome I’ve ever seen but should it appeal to some go for it after some heavy negotiations.
I would also point out that the rear toilet is not functional and needs replacing. It’s pretty disgusting to see a new coach with a stained toilet before it’s even sold. The flush is clearly inadequate and needs a rethink.
Well thank you for your opinion & advice James. I always appreciate your input and feedback.
I saw that toilet in another social media feed and was surprised how awful it was in person.
@@AZExpert You would honestly think that they would make an effort to show their RVS at peak quality but they don’t seem to care. It’s just a flavour of the industry today when they should be doing everything possible to stay relevant to their brand and customers.
With many brands merging and others going bankrupt we need a new breed of people that can adapt to the needs of the future and enhance the quality that built their reputation in the first place.
It seems as though you either need to be a multimillionaire or be treated like a second class citizen and accept what you’re given.
I have an idea that I would like to discuss with you. We either need to wait until I’m in America or I’d be happy to call you especially if you have WhatsApp. Please let me know 😉✨⭐️💫
That's why I always steer real folks away from a new coach. A quality built well taken care of 20 + year coach will give decades of reliable service and be within the price range of a normal American!
No sealant under the screws on the roof edges, and screws not fully seated is a problem. Also, an inspector shouldn't be rushed because they have to "get down the road" That isn't acceptable/fair to the customer. Especially when you turn your inspection video into a features video.
Thanks for the input, you're welcome to pay for a full day inspection and for my 2 extra hours stuck in cross town traffic on the next on. I"d like to know how you'd like me to insist that the dealer hold the RV and employees available until you deem the inspection time was adequate.
Almost seems reasonably priced too for what you get
Decent quality
Not cheap. But price out what you get and put it on that chassis.
I'm not a fan of black cabinets and faucets. I think in a couple of years, the black faucets will be as out of date as brass faucets are now.
Same for the black wheels. They will never shine like chrome.
tiffin checking big boxes... ftl chassis, all hyd slides (huge), one piece GC FG roof... newmar should take note re: slides...
Do you prefer HWH over lipper
I do, lippert seems problematic but HWH has issues too.
Hwh, but nothing is 100% problem free
Hello James
I am trying not to go into a rant, but it’s very hard
We downsize from the Newmar class A Diesel
And this have been a very disappointment
The Tiffin Wayfair on the Mercedes chassis. Love the Mercedes so far no issues.
But on the other hand
The build quality of the Wayfair
Have not been our best experience
Finding out that the plumbing is nothing more than rubber hose looks like garden hose
That’s sad
And the problems go on and on in the build I’m going to stop at this point
The Wayfair are not built at the red bay plant is built at a separate plant
Problem with quality control
I can appreciate your point of view, I just figured everything would be ....cheaper by now and was surprised things had improved
If you get an Rv with that toilet you better replace that thing immediately or just give up and go back to pull ups cause that thing isn’t gonna flush a square of toilet paper 😂🤦♂️ who designs something like that and says it’s good? My mom and stepdad bought a 2008 bounder 35h brand new when I was a kid and the pipe on the second or rear toilet is so small and it has to work on vacuum I would be afraid to use it… if you go in there they say number 1 only! 😂
Actually, Chris, we have a bidet on that unit and we're able to put as much water in it for flushing as we think we need. It has had no problem yet, and the bowl has cleaned itself usually with one flush. It would be better if they installed a pressure sprayer with the unit, if you own it w/o a bidet. It is very quiet though.
@@JohnJohnson-hl1vi you have the same one in the video? Does yours flush with little to no power too? I don’t see how that can do anything productive
Should improve as ours did with a couple of flushes. It had been sealed shut for a while, I guess.
That toilet in master bath needs more water to complete the flush process…or it’s just a pos
I did add water on another flush and it didn't seem to help
The 5'11" guy in the video has really small feet.... just saying 😂
and small hands
Tiffin has just as many quality control issues as Newmar does
I agree completely.