Nice work on your reviews! We appreciate it, and should acknowledge that no one bow company should be able to hold the torch longer then a few years at a time. Videos like this can inspire and motivate a company to bring the pain! Getting into archery three years ago obsession appears to hold the lead so naturally I bought one. It would be nice to see them step up to their challenge and blaze a path of speed and comfort as they were known for!
adam henderson Pretty much everyone is making good bows these days. The Lawless is a bit of a handful at times, but it was really easy to tune and is as accurate as anything. The Fixation is my favorite OB bow, though.
I have yet to see any lawless bow review reach speeds anywhere near factory rated ... how can a company get away with saying 370fps and everyone is getting 340? Garbage imo
Did you try plugging his numbers into an archery calculator? Because I did and it said he should be shooting 352. He said his bow reached 346 and they were tuned to his heavier arrows and would shoot better if he tuned to the IBO arrow so being 5fps off from IBO with his hunting setup is pretty dang good if you want a bow to shoot the exact IBO you have to set this bow up the way they do at IBO testing
First IBO testing is done with an arrow weighing 350 grains. Second there’s no weight on the string a couple grains from a d-loop at 30” that’s only 24fps slow. You go shoot any Mathews Hoyt pse and there not even close either
Agreed. I wish they would test the King Cobra. That bow is rated at 370+ fps. I have a 2018 model in 60 lbs, 28.5"draw, 80% let off. It sends a 440 grn Easton Axis 300 at 308 fps.
These bows go up to 80# draw weight and 30" draw length. The speed of the arrow is equivillent to the energy you put into the limbs. The energy into the limbs is just force times distance. Pull 80# 2 feet (30 inches-6 inches) and you get 160 ft-lb of energy. Now figure in your valley and build up and you're still left with 120ish ft-lb of energy in the limbs. You use your 350 grain arrow and work KE= 1/2 * mass * velocity ^2 and work that out and you get about 400 fps if the bow was completely 100% efficient. Of course no bow is hitting this but my guess is that extra 10# of draw weight over 1.5" would push this bow close to 360+ fps. I don't have any stake in obsession but it seems folks seem to forget it's all about the energy your muscles can put into the bow limbs. And that is determined by draw length, peak weight, and draw cycle profile. The only videos I've seen have been 70# at 28-28.5".
@@TheSouthernObsession you again? We get it, you're an obsession fanboy. But this bow isnt making IBO, no matter how many videos you comment on. Hunting setup is coming in 21 fps slow from the calculator, and the IBO spec arrow is coming in 15 fps slow. It can still be a great bow, and by all accounts is, but it is way over-rated.
@@goory93 I'm actually looking at bowtech or elite honestly but thought I'd comment and make sure people understands how IBO and calculation works you cant add grains to the string and have a hunting set up and shoot whatever draw/weight you want and expect it to shoot 370fps through the chrono. People are asking why its shooting 345 fps but its IBO is 370 I just commented about having to plug in the numbers and how IBO testing works every lawless is 5-10fps off I never said it wasn't just trying to help people understand what difference in hunting set up and IBO set up is
Most bows are it has to be the highest draw weight the lightest arrows the sun and the moon have to be out at the same time and you have to hold your mouth just right to get ibo speeds
Id be interested to see the Xpedition Mako tested at the same draw weight, draw length and arrow weights that you tested the Lawless. I'll bet the Mako is faster and probably nicer to draw and shoot.
Good morning Lucus with all your testing of bows.. I maybe in the market soon. I am currently shooting a strother sx rush. Love the bow but with a older set of shoulders have thought about picking up a speed bow in 50 lbs. Out of everything you've tested what would you think would be a couple good speed/smooth type bows?? 30" draw.. thanks
Speed and smooth don't often go hand in hand, I'm afraid. The Bowtech Realm SR6 I have is really quick, but there is a big hump before the valley for 29.5 and 30 inch draw lengths. The Realm SS gives up some speed, but you won't have that hump. It's not as fast, but the Mathews Triax is super smooth to draw. I prefer the slightly longer Vertix, but it's hair stiffer. I only shot it at the ATA Show, but the Xpedition Mako felt surprisingly smooth to draw for a 370 IBO bow. But a 5-inch brace height and a good bit of post-shot vibration may eliminate that for you - though some of that vibration would surely go away at 50 pounds. The Obsession Fixation line is also smooth to draw, though they don't live up to their lofty IBO in my experience.
What are your thoughts with higher FOC and weight to help with fixed blade broadhead flight? Speed is fun, but I've found 3 unrecovered elk with arrows in them that were very shallow. I fear speed trends are contributing to the inexperienced archers loosing animals.
I've not done a great deal of experimenting. I will be getting the Gold Tip AirStrike arrows in with the heavy inserts. That will give me a lot more weight up front than the Kaos arrows I'm using now.
C S I don’t know if I’ll do a video or not. Possibly. I generally don’t like to do videos with arrow building tips, bow tuning tips, shooting tips, etc. I’m not an expert, so I don’t want to pass on potentially bad info.
I shoot victory vap tko arrows weighing in at 410grains 80#limbs 30inch draw completely bare bow nothing on it period except nocking point and a qad hdx drop away rest cause I shoot purely instinctive my lawless chronographed at 363
Theres two other 5 in brace height bows out this year im curious to see how well they perform. The Mathews TX-5 and xpedition mako, i know mathews didnt send you a TX-5 but did you receive a mako?
No archery company does that, except the PSE NXT series bows and their carbon mach-1, the PSE Expedite is a little lower than IBO but head and shoulders above anything else except for the 80-90+ lb APA mamba and king Cobra but thats another conversion entirely with their own sets of issues. Anyways Obsession is definitely the most optimistic on their speeds.. most companies run 10-12 sometimes 15 fps behind IBO, obsession runs 25-30 fps behind... 30fps is ENORMOUS when your talking Arrow speed
@@ArcheryTalkVideo elite also says "up to" both companies were built by the same man behind the designs. I think it's more so people understand you cant shoot 370fps when you are pulling 68lbs and 28" draw and 440gr hunting set up
@(T)(h)(e)(D)(u)(d)(e) yea I know a few bow technicians here in Georgia that hasn't had a problem getting then to hit on or be withing 5fps of IBO. Honestly tho I dont pay attention to chrono numbers too many factors go into a chrono reading for it to be accurate. People arnt setting their bows up the same way you are suppose to when shooting for IBO numbers and Obsession realize this and that's why they put UP TO 370FPS because if you set their bow up for IBO standards you will hit that but if you set it up for hunting it's not going to hit IBO because IBO isn't a hunting setup. Also people are paying the same price for a new bow across the board other than hoyts carbon line but no one is paying more or less because of the speed, they all shoot around the same speed so it should come down to how deadly you feel with that bow in your hand and forget what speeds people are getting because any bow now days has no problem with speed when it comes to harvesting an animal
@@ArcheryTalkVideo Looking forward to it. Im probably getting the Rx3 in the next week or so. I got my first two deer with a bow this year with the pse ferocity. Looking to upgrade. Thanks for the reply!✌
Rx3 is noticeably better than the rx1 but the price still doesn't justify it for me. Still have the sr6 as my number 1 for this year, with the rx3 in 2nd.
@@joeditz48 I was gonna get the rx1 for 1000 but they gave me a good trade in price at the army navy store. It is quite expensive but im a cheap ass in most other places in my life. I also sold one of my rifles that I don't need anymore. I respect anyone who bow hunts because it takes alot more skill. One of my best friends hunts with a bowtech. To me its all about how it feels to you. I shot the obsession fixation and I wanted to love it but I didnt. ( and im in and from Georgia) ✌👍✊
It's definitely a bit slower than I was hoping, but sometimes the manufacturers play a little fast and loose with speed ratings. I'm also not sure a 5-inch BH is right for me, but it's worth trying. I like the Obsession FXL quite a bit more - except the centershot is off by a lot. Shimming the cams couldn't even get it in line. Too bad, because that bow is a treat to shoot.
Aaron Hall A bare shaft would probably put it right there, they are full of boloney with the speeds tho. Every single company is guilty. Like car companies with gas mileage
@@weldermike7017 A lot of brands have very optimistic speed numbers, but not everybody. The last two Bowtech hunting bows I tested were faster than expected when you account for weight on the string and draw length. I've found Obsession to be particularly optimistic, although some others aren't too far behind (Prime comes to mind).
@@ianmcgaughey1 ibo isn't based on average it's what the fastest they get is. Plug in his numbers and specs in archery calculator and you will see with his set up and 350gr arrow he should be shooting 352 with the half inch off of his draw, added weight to the string, and his bow being tuned to his heavy arrows and not set up for IBO specs he is only 5-6fps off with his hunting setup
After 2015 obsession went down hill fast. Nothing like buying a brand new bow then end up spending hundreds to get it to shoot right. Even then some bows just won’t tune properly and a guy is out all that money. Have to send it back and get a different one then start the process all over again. Took me 4 months and several 4 hour round trips to my nearest obsession tech to get my bow right. I bet I spent $600 in gas and labor. Plus the new cables that the crap slide kept eating. Fuck obsession
Obsession are over rated, you're not going to set a bow up for ibo and shoot it regularly. It would be nice knowing it can reach it's specs tho. Obsession lie about all their specs.
I disagree. I really enjoyed the Fixation last year. Super smooth and easy to tune. I didn't love the Lawless initially, but it is definitely growing on me.
Nice work on your reviews! We appreciate it, and should acknowledge that no one bow company should be able to hold the torch longer then a few years at a time. Videos like this can inspire and motivate a company to bring the pain! Getting into archery three years ago obsession appears to hold the lead so naturally I bought one. It would be nice to see them step up to their challenge and blaze a path of speed and comfort as they were known for!
adam henderson Pretty much everyone is making good bows these days. The Lawless is a bit of a handful at times, but it was really easy to tune and is as accurate as anything. The Fixation is my favorite OB bow, though.
I have yet to see any lawless bow review reach speeds anywhere near factory rated ... how can a company get away with saying 370fps and everyone is getting 340? Garbage imo
Did you try plugging his numbers into an archery calculator? Because I did and it said he should be shooting 352. He said his bow reached 346 and they were tuned to his heavier arrows and would shoot better if he tuned to the IBO arrow so being 5fps off from IBO with his hunting setup is pretty dang good if you want a bow to shoot the exact IBO you have to set this bow up the way they do at IBO testing
@@TheSouthernObsession exactly
The bow goes up to 80#..........
First IBO testing is done with an arrow weighing 350 grains. Second there’s no weight on the string a couple grains from a d-loop at 30” that’s only 24fps slow. You go shoot any Mathews Hoyt pse and there not even close either
Anyone else seeing the manufacturer spec IBO is actually listed as 356 not 370. ?? Hello.
Surely you don't expect an Obsession bow to reach it's advertised speeds. Haven't seen one yet that would reach it's advertised speeds
I've ran the Lawless and the Fixation 6XP through the chrono so far...neither was terribly close to advertised speeds.
@@ArcheryTalkVideo just tune it to the ibo arrow and it will hit ibo speed
@@haydensanson1158 How do you tune to an arrow?
@(T)(h)(e)(D)(u)(d)(e) yeah lol
HI. can you please review the APA mamba 28XR. I haven't seen any review on it....
I don't think we will be doing an APA review this year. Hopefully I can fit on into the video schedule for 2020.
I would love to see a review on the apa mamba 28xr bow that the bow I am thinking about buying
Agreed. I wish they would test the King Cobra. That bow is rated at 370+ fps. I have a 2018 model in 60 lbs, 28.5"draw, 80% let off. It sends a 440 grn Easton Axis 300 at 308 fps.
These bows go up to 80# draw weight and 30" draw length. The speed of the arrow is equivillent to the energy you put into the limbs. The energy into the limbs is just force times distance. Pull 80# 2 feet (30 inches-6 inches) and you get 160 ft-lb of energy. Now figure in your valley and build up and you're still left with 120ish ft-lb of energy in the limbs. You use your 350 grain arrow and work KE= 1/2 * mass * velocity ^2 and work that out and you get about 400 fps if the bow was completely 100% efficient. Of course no bow is hitting this but my guess is that extra 10# of draw weight over 1.5" would push this bow close to 360+ fps. I don't have any stake in obsession but it seems folks seem to forget it's all about the energy your muscles can put into the bow limbs. And that is determined by draw length, peak weight, and draw cycle profile. The only videos I've seen have been 70# at 28-28.5".
IBO specs are tested at 30 inches and 70lbs with a 5 grain per pound arrow. There's no variation in draw length or poundage to meet IBO specs.
Thanks for the honest review.
All of the reviews for the lawless show it is 25 to 30 fps slower than the claimed IBO speed.
Try plugging his numbers into an archery calculator you'll see that he is only 5 fps off IBO with his hunting setup
@@TheSouthernObsession you again? We get it, you're an obsession fanboy. But this bow isnt making IBO, no matter how many videos you comment on. Hunting setup is coming in 21 fps slow from the calculator, and the IBO spec arrow is coming in 15 fps slow.
It can still be a great bow, and by all accounts is, but it is way over-rated.
@@goory93 I'm actually looking at bowtech or elite honestly but thought I'd comment and make sure people understands how IBO and calculation works you cant add grains to the string and have a hunting set up and shoot whatever draw/weight you want and expect it to shoot 370fps through the chrono. People are asking why its shooting 345 fps but its IBO is 370 I just commented about having to plug in the numbers and how IBO testing works every lawless is 5-10fps off I never said it wasn't just trying to help people understand what difference in hunting set up and IBO set up is
Most bows are it has to be the highest draw weight the lightest arrows the sun and the moon have to be out at the same time and you have to hold your mouth just right to get ibo speeds
How many of the reviews are testing it at maximum draw length and weight. I'm betting next to none.
I have obsession lawless 78# and 28 dl, my 510 grain arrow flight with speed 290 FPS , I think it’s a fast bow
Id be interested to see the Xpedition Mako tested at the same draw weight, draw length and arrow weights that you tested the Lawless. I'll bet the Mako is faster and probably nicer to draw and shoot.
If I get the Mako in for testing, I will certainly do the same speed test.
Just an FYI, IBO speeds are tested without fletchings (yup, seriously)
If you run forward while shooting the bow, your speed is combined with the arrow's speed. Maybe Obsession does that during testing?
Oh no kidding. So broad heads tend to fly funky when speeds get over 285 FPS ish?
Love your stuff...
Demo ranch was fantastic also...
Good shooting bro
Thanks for watching.
Love your stuff are you gonna do the BowTech Realm SR6.
Tristan I hope so.
Good morning Lucus with all your testing of bows.. I maybe in the market soon. I am currently shooting a strother sx rush. Love the bow but with a older set of shoulders have thought about picking up a speed bow in 50 lbs. Out of everything you've tested what would you think would be a couple good speed/smooth type bows?? 30" draw.. thanks
Speed and smooth don't often go hand in hand, I'm afraid. The Bowtech Realm SR6 I have is really quick, but there is a big hump before the valley for 29.5 and 30 inch draw lengths. The Realm SS gives up some speed, but you won't have that hump. It's not as fast, but the Mathews Triax is super smooth to draw. I prefer the slightly longer Vertix, but it's hair stiffer. I only shot it at the ATA Show, but the Xpedition Mako felt surprisingly smooth to draw for a 370 IBO bow. But a 5-inch brace height and a good bit of post-shot vibration may eliminate that for you - though some of that vibration would surely go away at 50 pounds. The Obsession Fixation line is also smooth to draw, though they don't live up to their lofty IBO in my experience.
What are your thoughts with higher FOC and weight to help with fixed blade broadhead flight? Speed is fun, but I've found 3 unrecovered elk with arrows in them that were very shallow. I fear speed trends are contributing to the inexperienced archers loosing animals.
I've not done a great deal of experimenting. I will be getting the Gold Tip AirStrike arrows in with the heavy inserts. That will give me a lot more weight up front than the Kaos arrows I'm using now.
@@ArcheryTalkVideo looking forward to the video.
C S I don’t know if I’ll do a video or not. Possibly. I generally don’t like to do videos with arrow building tips, bow tuning tips, shooting tips, etc. I’m not an expert, so I don’t want to pass on potentially bad info.
345 for a shorter draw length and a heavy arrow is pretty damn fast, lies or not. Any bow "rated" at 350 should be shooting 310's at a 27" draw
Too small my 32 inch draw length pushes the 400 fps
I shoot victory vap tko arrows weighing in at 410grains 80#limbs 30inch draw completely bare bow nothing on it period except nocking point and a qad hdx drop away rest cause I shoot purely instinctive my lawless chronographed at 363
Theres two other 5 in brace height bows out this year im curious to see how well they perform. The Mathews TX-5 and xpedition mako, i know mathews didnt send you a TX-5 but did you receive a mako?
I won't be getting the TX-5 (I already have the Vertix), but the Mako is a possibility.
Why they claim 370 I have no clue. 340 is perfectly respectable for a bow. Should under promise and over deliver
No archery company does that, except the PSE NXT series bows and their carbon mach-1, the PSE Expedite is a little lower than IBO but head and shoulders above anything else except for the 80-90+ lb APA mamba and king Cobra but thats another conversion entirely with their own sets of issues. Anyways Obsession is definitely the most optimistic on their speeds.. most companies run 10-12 sometimes 15 fps behind IBO, obsession runs 25-30 fps behind... 30fps is ENORMOUS when your talking Arrow speed
Slap another 2 dozen speed nocks on it and it might hit the ibo # ? Geez !
Faulse advertising. 370fps we shot it tuned with a 350 bare shaft and it was way of 370fps.
Obsession takes an interesting approach. Where some brands say "350 IBO" Obsession says "Up to 370 FPS" Gives them some wiggle room.
@@ArcheryTalkVideo elite also says "up to" both companies were built by the same man behind the designs. I think it's more so people understand you cant shoot 370fps when you are pulling 68lbs and 28" draw and 440gr hunting set up
@(T)(h)(e)(D)(u)(d)(e) there are a few videos on it hitting dead nuts 370 IBO
@(T)(h)(e)(D)(u)(d)(e) m.facebook.com/groups/232034597252530?view=permalink&id=625658657890120
@(T)(h)(e)(D)(u)(d)(e) yea I know a few bow technicians here in Georgia that hasn't had a problem getting then to hit on or be withing 5fps of IBO. Honestly tho I dont pay attention to chrono numbers too many factors go into a chrono reading for it to be accurate. People arnt setting their bows up the same way you are suppose to when shooting for IBO numbers and Obsession realize this and that's why they put UP TO 370FPS because if you set their bow up for IBO standards you will hit that but if you set it up for hunting it's not going to hit IBO because IBO isn't a hunting setup. Also people are paying the same price for a new bow across the board other than hoyts carbon line but no one is paying more or less because of the speed, they all shoot around the same speed so it should come down to how deadly you feel with that bow in your hand and forget what speeds people are getting because any bow now days has no problem with speed when it comes to harvesting an animal
Please review the hoyt carbon rx3. Love your channel im in georgia.
Allen Todd I’m getting the Helix Ultra from Hoyt.
@@ArcheryTalkVideo Looking forward to it. Im probably getting the Rx3 in the next week or so. I got my first two deer with a bow this year with the pse ferocity. Looking to upgrade. Thanks for the reply!✌
Rx3 is noticeably better than the rx1 but the price still doesn't justify it for me. Still have the sr6 as my number 1 for this year, with the rx3 in 2nd.
@@joeditz48 I was gonna get the rx1 for 1000 but they gave me a good trade in price at the army navy store. It is quite expensive but im a cheap ass in most other places in my life. I also sold one of my rifles that I don't need anymore. I respect anyone who bow hunts because it takes alot more skill. One of my best friends hunts with a bowtech. To me its all about how it feels to you. I shot the obsession fixation and I wanted to love it but I didnt. ( and im in and from Georgia) ✌👍✊
I liked the Helix a lot better than the RX3.. Go weigh them both. You’ll be suprised! Damn near the same
thanks man!!
Thanks. 5 fps less for draw. 10 peep and loop. Still not making speed... BH to short for me. Thanks again for the reviews.
It's definitely a bit slower than I was hoping, but sometimes the manufacturers play a little fast and loose with speed ratings. I'm also not sure a 5-inch BH is right for me, but it's worth trying. I like the Obsession FXL quite a bit more - except the centershot is off by a lot. Shimming the cams couldn't even get it in line. Too bad, because that bow is a treat to shoot.
Aaron Hall A bare shaft would probably put it right there, they are full of boloney with the speeds tho. Every single company is guilty. Like car companies with gas mileage
@@weldermike7017 A lot of brands have very optimistic speed numbers, but not everybody. The last two Bowtech hunting bows I tested were faster than expected when you account for weight on the string and draw length. I've found Obsession to be particularly optimistic, although some others aren't too far behind (Prime comes to mind).
You'll see ibo when its tuned properly.
Hahaha. I love this excuse
Funny I shot this thing at ATA and told my buddy it's a 350 bow at best. Lol. Hit the nail on the head
His test is only 5-6 fps off IBO so at worst its 365ibo still fastest 90% let off on the market
@@TheSouthernObsession his speeds averaged at 345. 345+6 it's 351. Where is the other 14 feet per second coming from?
@@ianmcgaughey1 ibo isn't based on average it's what the fastest they get is. Plug in his numbers and specs in archery calculator and you will see with his set up and 350gr arrow he should be shooting 352 with the half inch off of his draw, added weight to the string, and his bow being tuned to his heavy arrows and not set up for IBO specs he is only 5-6fps off with his hunting setup
@@ianmcgaughey1 IBO specs are 30" draw length, 70lbs or up to 72lbs draw weight, bare string and a bare 350gr arrow
@@TheSouthernObsession whatever you say bud
After 2015 obsession went down hill fast. Nothing like buying a brand new bow then end up spending hundreds to get it to shoot right. Even then some bows just won’t tune properly and a guy is out all that money. Have to send it back and get a different one then start the process all over again. Took me 4 months and several 4 hour round trips to my nearest obsession tech to get my bow right. I bet I spent $600 in gas and labor. Plus the new cables that the crap slide kept eating. Fuck obsession
It may do 370 with 80lb limbs but no way with 70
With Kevin strother’s arrows it would do 400
Obsession are over rated, you're not going to set a bow up for ibo and shoot it regularly. It would be nice knowing it can reach it's specs tho. Obsession lie about all their specs.
Obsession says up too 370 that’s at 80lb 30inch draw these damn reviews is what get smack talking on obsession u won’t get a good ibo at 28 draw 70lb
Obbsession sucks!
I disagree. I really enjoyed the Fixation last year. Super smooth and easy to tune. I didn't love the Lawless initially, but it is definitely growing on me.