Having lived in England and now living in Scotland, I can see the difference in standard. However, if Celtic and Rangers were to move to the PL (a big IF as I can't see that ever happening), I reckon they will eventually compete in the top half. They are both massive clubs in terms of support, add to that the PL money & them being interesting for investors, they'd be able to build themselves over time.
Well said. To think that the developers of FM think that Rangers and Celtic are the same reputations as West Ham and BRIGHTON just shows where their bias is. Shocking to see. I am a Rangers fan who has lived in England for 30 years and I see it all the time. People saying even Norwich etc. Would walk the Scottish Prem. The Old Firm Derby has had 100's of millions watch 1 game around the world on Sky. It is the biggest Derby in Britain.
@@unchainedmentally2147 viewing figures? Enlighten me on how they would change? The Old Firm and Hearts virtually sell out every game and Hibs, Aberdeen and the Dundee clubs all have a solid attendances. The old firm is one of the most watched games itw and is a bigger derby than any other derby in the UK.
@@jamestyler12JT We're actually in agreement regards OF viewership itw. If i could've understood correctly your original reply i would have got it first time round.
My experiment suggestion is almost the opposite of this. Merge the top Irish, Northern Irish and Welsh sides (including Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and Newport) into the Scottish league system. Can any of them topple Celtic and Rangers, and will having more strong sides in the SPL improve the leagues standing in European football?
@@TomFM I ran a sim myself yesterday and it wasn't great to be honest. But I ran it again and added Sunderland and Middlesbrough into the mix (northern English sides close to the border) and it was a bit more interesting. I only did 10 seasons and Celtic & Rangers had still won 8 of the 10 league titles but they weren't always finishing 2nd when the other won. Wrexham yoyo'd a lot and Derry also fared quite well, never getting relegated on either simulation. I think they might have a bit of money IRL that allows them to compete. Definitely wouldn't have been worth a video without adding in the two North East English sides, but it could be interesting simulating further with them in the SPL as well as Swansea, Cardiff and whoever else.
@@TomFMhow did you switch the spl teams to start with, the video would be great if it showed me how to. Obviously through the editor somehow but not clear how it can be done
My favourite is when teams finish on the exact same record: wins, draws, losses, goals scored and conceded and then they game just randomly chooses one team to finish above the other!
mate i really enjoy your videos, you should do an experiment with turkish clubs. would be fun and exciting bc their teams have the potential to win european glory with some money or proper facilities.
I tried the same experiment back on championship manager 97/98. Celtic and Rangers were both challenging at the top of the table. Dundee became the dominant force in Scottish football, signing Nwankwo Kanu and Mark Viduka. I didn’t swap the Scottish Premiership clubs with English clubs, I promoted everyone in Scotland, including non-league teams into league two. And relegated enough teams in England to make it work.
It's a shame FM doesn't properly consider how big celtic and rangers are. After a couple years of engand's tv money they'd be top 10 in the PL every season and would regularly fight for european spots. Massive clubs
Being a big club doesn’t mean you’re any good you melon. Man Utd are a big club but haven’t competed for a title in decades (and yes I know they came second under Mourinho but City were never in danger of losing the title).
I get what you mean, but that's no guarantee. Neither strike me as exceptionally well managed which is more important than being "big". Ask Newcastle about the Mike Ashley era
Absolute nonsense. Being a big club means nothing you only have to look at Leeds and Sunderland in championship. Even European cup winners Aston Villa been in the championship in recent years.
@@hman535both are way bigger than the clubs you just mentioned but go off. Celtic are one of the most supported clubs in the world, massive global fanbase
@@ayoutubechannel7143 and this leads to top 10 in the PL how? Clubs need to be well run no matter the size to consistently finish in the top half. Chelsea have spent billions and they're not even on for Europe
In reality, West Ham and Brighton would both immediately be bankrupt if they were in Scotland. The prize money West Ham would have got for that first season wouldn't have covered the wages of their front 3. Similarly, I'm surprised Celtic managed to beat the drop in that first season as they were competing with an SPL budget until season 2, when tellingly, both OF teams sploodge 10's of millions in one transfer window.
The fault of these simulations, specifically moving the old firm to england is most english people dont realise just how big celtic and rangers actually are. Its easy to swap them over, and then watch them be mid level as this sim as shown. But only tinkering slightly their reputation doesnt give you the big picture. The rep is used in worldwide terms not specifically nation terms it influences transfers, sponsers (i think) etc and other imcomes. If the old firm were to actually move the initial level of investment would be huge because outwith the fake fans chelsea and man city have discovered over the last 15 years or so with their riches (lets not forget they both are pretty small clubs in terms of history and supporters) celtic and rangers are easily top 5 in size of supporters in the uk, celtic a little more worldwide and thats without riches of PL. Theyd be better suited for a more accurate sim to be at 8000/8100 rep and also dramatically increase their sponsership deals. Im a realist old firm in the PL wouldnt be a walkover for them even after they got established but the so called top 6 would be top 8 and consistently so. The draw of glasgow is much larger than most outside london and the manchester/liverpool area especially if they were both in the richest league in the world. Factors people overlook or are just not aware of because the scottish league is admittedly very poor competition wise and finacially. Just food for thought if you decide or anyone decides to do this again.
@@Keir05 Dundee FC was included on the video I know that, I just pointed out that Dundee United wasn't chosen because they are in the Scottish Championship
You should put the Scottish Premiership, Welsh league, and Irish league with promotion to EFL League Two with the last place going to the English Conference champions as per normal. See how things work out from then.
You would need to change the reputation levels. This is common sense. The old firm in England would be huge and their reputation would be two of the biggest in the league.
On this, did the scottish clubs end up gettin mainly english new gens and english clubs in Scotland get scottish new gens? Just that I did similar experiment and I just can’t for the life of me sort it out in the editor. If i do change it to make Scottish clubs have Scottish players, then they end up not being allowed to qualify for europe. Thanks.
You have apparently done this before, but could you again move Cardiff, Newport County, Swansea and Wrexham to the Welsh league and see how well would they do in Europe?
What's the best way for me to set up my own similar save? I was thinking imagine a reality where rangers and celtic move to the English leagues... Where would they start? League 2? Problem is I reckon most of the players would demand to leave ASAP in FM?
Can you please help, I used the free FM24 editor and moved Celtic to the championship and moved a team to the SPL. I saved the edit to my pc and when I open FM24 I can't seem to find the saved edit or upload it to the game. How do i start a new game and do I need to buy the ingame editor
I Admit we as in heart of midlothian have made some poor decisions in the past but trust me if we ever got frank lampard as a manager my season ticket would go on gumtree for a £10 :)
Not a fan of either, but reputation wise Rangers and Celtic arguably should only have Man Utd and Liverpool above them. They are massive clubs. To equate them to Brighton etc doesnt make sense given their respective (European) histories.
I think when this idea is done it is rather flawed, Im not saying Rangers and Celtic will breeze it but say this was to happen IRL im going to assume the financial backing would increase therefore he budgets would be higher where as theyre still on Scottish keague budgets to begin with meaning the players they have 100% arent good enough and they will withiut a doubt need alot of investment to get the club started and running. As mentioned how the club is ran is also crucial and both clubs IMO would hire much better personel to run the clubs and be able to attract higher calibre managers and players.
Next challenge: Welsh clubs in England (Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, Cardiff) are in Welsh Premier League. And how would they european cups perfomance go.
I think there's a flaw in FM's system. Not because of any of the Scottish clubs' performances in England, but because of Brighton's success in Scotland. I think, given their relatively small fanbase, that they'd plummet quite quickly when stripped of the drawing power of the English Premier League to bring in young talent.
Amalgamating the English and Scottish leagues would be mint in theory, never gonna happen though as you can't arbitrarily parachute teams into professional leagues and force clubs out. Or is there another way to do it?
Well I'm no Ross County fan but in the real world Ross County are not matched with Wrexham. Maybe the new Sugar Daddy Wrexham are getting closer, but this (Wrexham) is a team who were competing in the Scottish Lower League Challenge Cup and never made it to a final.
6:45 - How to offend every Dundonian in under 20 seconds: Completely ignore Dundee in 14th and then right after it refer to Dundee United as "Dundee".
i am literally a dundee united fan
@@ebixq "literally" is literally used too often.
@@sandersson2813literally
Surprised you didn’t mention Lincoln getting promoted in season 1 😂
It took all of my focus to not mention them once 😂
The reputation comparison with Grimsby at the start was enough and great 😂
@@TomFMcan you do a video showing HOW you switched the teams from league to league as would love to take charge of Rangers in the EPL
@@MUCKER1314 rangers suck dude
@@horry1377who do you support?
Having lived in England and now living in Scotland, I can see the difference in standard. However, if Celtic and Rangers were to move to the PL (a big IF as I can't see that ever happening), I reckon they will eventually compete in the top half. They are both massive clubs in terms of support, add to that the PL money & them being interesting for investors, they'd be able to build themselves over time.
Well said. To think that the developers of FM think that Rangers and Celtic are the same reputations as West Ham and BRIGHTON just shows where their bias is.
Shocking to see. I am a Rangers fan who has lived in England for 30 years and I see it all the time. People saying even Norwich etc. Would walk the Scottish Prem.
The Old Firm Derby has had 100's of millions watch 1 game around the world on Sky. It is the biggest Derby in Britain.
I think it’s not as a big an if as you think
@@jamestyler12JT Doesn't matter what you think, viewing figures don't lie.
@@unchainedmentally2147 viewing figures? Enlighten me on how they would change? The Old Firm and Hearts virtually sell out every game and Hibs, Aberdeen and the Dundee clubs all have a solid attendances. The old firm is one of the most watched games itw and is a bigger derby than any other derby in the UK.
@@jamestyler12JT We're actually in agreement regards OF viewership itw. If i could've understood correctly your original reply i would have got it first time round.
13:14 THERE IS NO WAY LITTLE ALLOA MADE IT, AS A LOCAL, THAT WARMS MY HEART, WHERE ARE MY ALLOA FANS
I'm an alloa fan as well
well done, you found them all 😜
Humble Alloa Athletic. I remember the glory days with Martin Cameron and Mark Cairns. 😢
Drink it in. It's the closest you'll get. Only joking. Sorry.
@@MongoloidAlien😂
My experiment suggestion is almost the opposite of this. Merge the top Irish, Northern Irish and Welsh sides (including Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and Newport) into the Scottish league system. Can any of them topple Celtic and Rangers, and will having more strong sides in the SPL improve the leagues standing in European football?
I reckon maybe on Swansea and Cardiff could compete, but I'll run it and see if it's worth making a video out of!
@@TomFM I ran a sim myself yesterday and it wasn't great to be honest. But I ran it again and added Sunderland and Middlesbrough into the mix (northern English sides close to the border) and it was a bit more interesting. I only did 10 seasons and Celtic & Rangers had still won 8 of the 10 league titles but they weren't always finishing 2nd when the other won.
Wrexham yoyo'd a lot and Derry also fared quite well, never getting relegated on either simulation. I think they might have a bit of money IRL that allows them to compete.
Definitely wouldn't have been worth a video without adding in the two North East English sides, but it could be interesting simulating further with them in the SPL as well as Swansea, Cardiff and whoever else.
@@TomFMpost results we want to see
I don't think any sides outside of Swansea or Cardiff would be competing with Aberdeen or hearts, nevermind Celtic and rangers.
@@TomFMhow did you switch the spl teams to start with, the video would be great if it showed me how to. Obviously through the editor somehow but not clear how it can be done
14:31 a classic hibsed it moment.
10:32 - Three teams finish on 79 points with GD 32, 31 and 30 ... wild.
My favourite is when teams finish on the exact same record: wins, draws, losses, goals scored and conceded and then they game just randomly chooses one team to finish above the other!
@@TomFM Would that not then come down to fair play? Does the game show red/yellow cards?
Portsmouth underperforming on FM *pretends to be shocked*
Spotted Matt o’Riley as kille manager 🤣🤣
Same😂😂
The Lampard and Stevie G part 😅😂😂😂
Haven’t finished watching yet but very much that you included the other Scottish Premiership teams too!
Being an Aberdeen fan I loved this video!😂
SF
mate i really enjoy your videos, you should do an experiment with turkish clubs. would be fun and exciting bc their teams have the potential to win european glory with some money or proper facilities.
Especially The big 3 Istanbul teams
I tried the same experiment back on championship manager 97/98. Celtic and Rangers were both challenging at the top of the table. Dundee became the dominant force in Scottish football, signing Nwankwo Kanu and Mark Viduka.
I didn’t swap the Scottish Premiership clubs with English clubs, I promoted everyone in Scotland, including non-league teams into league two. And relegated enough teams in England to make it work.
This is important work.
It's a shame FM doesn't properly consider how big celtic and rangers are. After a couple years of engand's tv money they'd be top 10 in the PL every season and would regularly fight for european spots. Massive clubs
Being a big club doesn’t mean you’re any good you melon. Man Utd are a big club but haven’t competed for a title in decades (and yes I know they came second under Mourinho but City were never in danger of losing the title).
I get what you mean, but that's no guarantee. Neither strike me as exceptionally well managed which is more important than being "big". Ask Newcastle about the Mike Ashley era
Absolute nonsense. Being a big club means nothing you only have to look at Leeds and Sunderland in championship. Even European cup winners Aston Villa been in the championship in recent years.
@@hman535both are way bigger than the clubs you just mentioned but go off. Celtic are one of the most supported clubs in the world, massive global fanbase
@@ayoutubechannel7143 and this leads to top 10 in the PL how? Clubs need to be well run no matter the size to consistently finish in the top half. Chelsea have spent billions and they're not even on for Europe
14:29 SOUTHEND IN THE PREM IS ALL I HAVE EVER WANTED
In reality, West Ham and Brighton would both immediately be bankrupt if they were in Scotland. The prize money West Ham would have got for that first season wouldn't have covered the wages of their front 3. Similarly, I'm surprised Celtic managed to beat the drop in that first season as they were competing with an SPL budget until season 2, when tellingly, both OF teams sploodge 10's of millions in one transfer window.
Mon the Killie ⚪️🔵⚪️🔵 there is absolutely no way we’d have Joe Worrall as our manager though 😂😂
Just moved to Dundee as my second club in my journeyman save. Up the Dark Blues.
You have my sympathy
As a killie fan I really enjoyed this experiment.
A real rollercoaster for you!
The fault of these simulations, specifically moving the old firm to england is most english people dont realise just how big celtic and rangers actually are. Its easy to swap them over, and then watch them be mid level as this sim as shown. But only tinkering slightly their reputation doesnt give you the big picture. The rep is used in worldwide terms not specifically nation terms it influences transfers, sponsers (i think) etc and other imcomes. If the old firm were to actually move the initial level of investment would be huge because outwith the fake fans chelsea and man city have discovered over the last 15 years or so with their riches (lets not forget they both are pretty small clubs in terms of history and supporters) celtic and rangers are easily top 5 in size of supporters in the uk, celtic a little more worldwide and thats without riches of PL. Theyd be better suited for a more accurate sim to be at 8000/8100 rep and also dramatically increase their sponsership deals. Im a realist old firm in the PL wouldnt be a walkover for them even after they got established but the so called top 6 would be top 8 and consistently so. The draw of glasgow is much larger than most outside london and the manchester/liverpool area especially if they were both in the richest league in the world. Factors people overlook or are just not aware of because the scottish league is admittedly very poor competition wise and finacially. Just food for thought if you decide or anyone decides to do this again.
6:46
Dundee isn't scottish, I guess
He only used Scottish Premiership clubs, Dundee United is in the Scottish Championship this season (Don't be confused with Dundee FC)
@@T1acticalDundee weren’t there that’s why he said that, Dundee were in the video at the start
@@Keir05 Dundee FC was included on the video I know that, I just pointed out that Dundee United wasn't chosen because they are in the Scottish Championship
@@T1actical I don’t think you have common sense 😁
@@Keir05 Maybe you're just confused, don't call me a "no common sense" guy if you don't even know what I mean
You should put the Scottish Premiership, Welsh league, and Irish league with promotion to EFL League Two with the last place going to the English Conference champions as per normal.
See how things work out from then.
You would need to change the reputation levels. This is common sense. The old firm in England would be huge and their reputation would be two of the biggest in the league.
UNIX video, you should do the opposite where where you take the top 12 English Premier League teams and move them to the Scottish premiership
Would be interesting to see how financially destroyed they get. They'd need to cut wages very very quickly.
How about doing the same with Australia
Yes
How did you move them into the prem
I wouldn’t call Dundee Utd Dundee 😂😂
6:48
Tom
Dundee FC was in league 2
You marke Wycombe
What
I like the fact that you swapped a Welsh team with a Scottish team in England.
Hey tom! Do you have a video were you show how to switch the teams to different leagues or do you have a video you can recommend to me?
On this, did the scottish clubs end up gettin mainly english new gens and english clubs in Scotland get scottish new gens?
Just that I did similar experiment and I just can’t for the life of me sort it out in the editor.
If i do change it to make Scottish clubs have Scottish players, then they end up not being allowed to qualify for europe.
Thanks.
The only thing I changed was the nation they qualify for Europe via, so I think they would have brought through English regens for the most part
never seen this happened in FM before wow
You have apparently done this before, but could you again move Cardiff, Newport County, Swansea and Wrexham to the Welsh league and see how well would they do in Europe?
To be honest, if my club (Motherwell) coped that well in the English league system, I'd be pretty chuffed.
Even nabbed some silverware early on there.
10:38 insane tittle battle
Please do a video on Dutch teams in the English pyramid
Work permits will screw it up.
Frank Lampard as manager had me crying with laughter 😂
*hey tom, do you mind recording some more manager career simulating? i really enjoy this type of content*
Love the Video can you move some Welsh around ?
Would be interesting to see how some of the English 'giants' would get on in Scotland with no money.
What's the best way for me to set up my own similar save? I was thinking imagine a reality where rangers and celtic move to the English leagues... Where would they start? League 2? Problem is I reckon most of the players would demand to leave ASAP in FM?
Greenock Morton sighting 🎉🎉 (we went down)
St Mirren being in a TomFM video: 😃
they’ve been relegated to the national league north: 🫠
why do we always so so bad like cmon to grips
I'd like to have a go at this, any chance of a save file or database save etc? I 100% think could get rangers to at least a top 8 side lol
13:42 WT Sunderland, Southampton and Spurs
go to 10:32 and you see that the top 3 is at 79 points. That was a wicked seasons
Southend joining notts county in the Premier league is actually insane 🤣🤣
As a stop mirren fan I am baffled
Can you please help, I used the free FM24 editor and moved Celtic to the championship and moved a team to the SPL.
I saved the edit to my pc and when I open FM24 I can't seem to find the saved edit or upload it to the game.
How do i start a new game and do I need to buy the ingame editor
as an aberdeen fan, im still not as depressed as when i look at our current form. at least we bagged a draw with celtic. bring on rangers...
3-0 rangers today 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Did you edit the clubs bank balances to reflect the higher money in the epl compared to spfl ?
How do you move them into the different leagues! Always wanted to try somthing like this myself please are you able to help out!
Aberdeen staying in PL while rangers get relegated. You love to see it ❤
The fact there's a 40 thousand seater stadium in Wrexham despite their population only being about 40 thousand is funny to me😂
Makes sense to me. What else is there to do in Wrexham aside from watching football? Seems cruel having a stadium that isn't big enough.
@@listey Its cruel on the people having to travel to wrexham to watch a European final
6:47 I guess Dundee aren't Scottish
I wish it wasn't, horrible city haha
I Admit we as in heart of midlothian have made some poor decisions in the past but trust me if we ever got frank lampard as a manager my season ticket would go on gumtree for a £10 :)
Interesting that Celtic were able to buy some decent West Ham and Brighton players. Maybe they had to sell due to reduction in TV money
Great to see the Pars doing so well even with English clubs in the league 😂
Not a fan of either, but reputation wise Rangers and Celtic arguably should only have Man Utd and Liverpool above them.
They are massive clubs.
To equate them to Brighton etc doesnt make sense given their respective (European) histories.
Fairly said.
This made me miss the aberdeen save days 😅
4:12 psv??? Its AZ Alkmaar
Life as a Sheff Wed fan doesn't get better in Scotland 😢😂
Tried to make a super league system with all the big clubs in the world in the english system. Tho im too supid and i didnt get it to work
I think when this idea is done it is rather flawed, Im not saying Rangers and Celtic will breeze it but say this was to happen IRL im going to assume the financial backing would increase therefore he budgets would be higher where as theyre still on Scottish keague budgets to begin with meaning the players they have 100% arent good enough and they will withiut a doubt need alot of investment to get the club started and running. As mentioned how the club is ran is also crucial and both clubs IMO would hire much better personel to run the clubs and be able to attract higher calibre managers and players.
QPR constantly struggling in all of these sims. Would be nice to see a sim focused on QPR getting some success. Rebuild or something.
Where can we find database?
Sunderland in the Champions League 👍 @13:45
Does anyone know how to move the teams to the english leagues as the video doesn't show how he did it
Good to see Bolton where they belong in the 3rd tier of Scottish football it's about there level. 😂
Thank you
The best thing about this scenario is getting MK Dons out of the English football leagues.
Would have been interesting to swap all the scottish clubs for London clubs. A london league would be interesting...
As a West Ham fan deffo the only time we are going to win a league
COYI⚒️⚒️
Glad the mighty Perth Saints didn’t suffer the humiliation of dropping into National League North - unlike diddies like Dundee and St Mirren.
Back in reality though, they're both ahead of yous 😂
I think imma follow the 'Well on here instead
Wish you put Dundee United in with the prem teams were bigger than 7 of them 😢
Hi Tom love the content. Everton are the best in the world
Can you rebuild the worst club in Greece
you got the grimsby and lincoln reputations backwards
Aberdeen would never get relegated
Livingstone achieving anything in English is hilarious to me.
They've been imposters in the spfl for years
Love the Grimsby disrespect 👍👌
Morton made it 😊😊
I wonder if this Aberdeen team have yan cavilcanti👀
Next challenge: Welsh clubs in England (Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, Cardiff) are in Welsh Premier League.
And how would they european cups perfomance go.
Does anyone know how he got that AI stadium pic for the wrexham stadium
I fancied Bolton's chances in that league; 3rd is decent
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then drop off
I think there's a flaw in FM's system. Not because of any of the Scottish clubs' performances in England, but because of Brighton's success in Scotland. I think, given their relatively small fanbase, that they'd plummet quite quickly when stripped of the drawing power of the English Premier League to bring in young talent.
Being from Dundee is bad enough
do this again with welsh teams
Amalgamating the English and Scottish leagues would be mint in theory, never gonna happen though as you can't arbitrarily parachute teams into professional leagues and force clubs out. Or is there another way to do it?
Peterborough getting relegated while Cambrjdge stay up, fucking B E A UTIFUL
The year is 2045 and Rangers have 19 billion shares on the market 😊
At 1pence per share more watered down than orange squash🤣🤣
Mon the Gers!
Well I'm no Ross County fan but in the real world Ross County are not matched with Wrexham. Maybe the new Sugar Daddy Wrexham are getting closer, but this (Wrexham) is a team who were competing in the Scottish Lower League Challenge Cup and never made it to a final.
Scotland’s worst nightmare
I like the fm videos , but don’t get how steven gerrard would be worse than frank lampard as a manager when frank has won nothing as a manager
Did you increase the income to over 100M+
tom fm on top
TAKE IT PREFA RE...2032 WE ARE COMING