GMG Reviews - Warhammer: The Old World Core Rules by Games Workshop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2024
- Well, it's here. There's ingredients from across the editions of past Square Base Warhammer games for the last four decades, with a healthy dash of Middle Earth SBG thrown in. This review is NOT a learn to play, it's a top down highlight of the core principle design moves in the book.
Individual looks at the armies on offer for the first 9 available factions will also be up today, in the cards. Thanks for watching. More to come.
Big thanks to GW for the complimentary copy of the box to review.
#adwip
#WarhammerTheOldWorld
#warhammercommunity
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Ash - from a purely design point of view - can you comment on the book being blue. It seems like a small thing but I don’t remember a Warhammer book ever being blue. What are they saying?
They’re saying this colour contrasts opposite the colour of the logo and typography on the colour wheel. Thats about it. It’s the Miami Dolphins of books sleeves.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames I do like the blue. Being born in Colorado, can we call it Denver Broncos colors?😂😂😂
id guess its probably because the sigmar range is red books and red mini boxes so they wanted a contrasting color for shelves
@@-rayzer--wolf-6474 good observation!
4th ed 40k was a Big Blue Book iirc
As a life-long Wood Elf player, I pinned the Eternal Guard and Dryads that I made for my Cities of Sigmar to their circular bases hoping for the time I could clip them off and re-base them to squares. I've been planning for this day for jeez, four years? The clippers are clipping, the movement trays are flocked, and the sticks are whippy.
I feel you, mate. Played my first Wood Elves Game back in 1996
How does the meme go? Men will read this and say "Hell yeah"? Hell yeah lol.
You could use round to square movement trays to save it from clipping. I will be using some conversion trays to have my Island of blood models used, as well as AoS models
Same!!! I get to brake out my metal lord on dragon for the first time in a long while
you could always just use circular bases on movement trays... doesn't affect the game at all, but allows you to rotate models if there's some collisions with other models in the unit...
Ash, it is about 300 years before End Times in Old World. Set right after the Vampire Counts got smashed, right before the Great Invasion of Chaos, where Magnus the Pious beat back Asavar Kul.
Teclis didn't teach people magic until after the Invasion, so no colleges of magic.
Yup. It’s only after the Siege of Praag that Teclis realizes that they will need humans to fight chaos, and teaches humans magic, leading to the creation of the colleges.
My headcannon is that, when Magnus sent for help from Ulthuan, the Phoenix King was like "Oh no! Anyway" 💅
@@joakker8820 I admittedly don't care about elves, the source of every problem in Warhammer Fantasy, but I think the High Elves were dealing with the Dark Elves around that time.
We're home boys.
Adrian Smith, Paul Dainton and Karl Kopiński are absolute kegends when it comes to Warhammer Fantasy artwork. Absolute icons!
You completely forgot to mention Warhammer Ancient Battles. The movement and unit management is basically a copy of 2nd Edition WAB.
It is indeed. With a dash of English Civil War. The book pile in front of me was getting pretty high though.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames I see. Enjoyed the video nontheless. Didn't know about the LotR stuff for example.
Was so hyped for this. Just queued for an hour on the webstore and the rulebook is sold out already! Guess I will be waiting for a reprint. Good luck everyone!
buy from a retailer
Retailers that are warning they don't know how much stock they will get? As I said, good luck! Managed to get the army books at least so I can prep stuff ready for games.
There will be an E-Pub, not ideal because I prefer a physical copy but will do for now.
@@wargamerdad634dunno man where i'm from there's heaps of online retailers that do pre-orders usually for 25% less than GW prices and I was able to get one 10~ hours after pre-orders opened
Just checking to discover that the game isn’t available but the book is (UK only possibly)…
As an old Empire and Vampire Counts player with random other bits from other armies, I am excited for the future. I don't care if it takes years, I can see the road map GW are trying to do. This is my school inset days sitting in a red carpeted GW store painting lead models.
I also think the new digital art was put in sepia tone to remove the issue of digital art colours looking "wrong" since digital colours are a single pure tone of hexadecimal colour and looking washed out and lifeless. They knew their audience and their audience probably (Like probably the team who made the book) doesn't like the new digital art style. Digital art I've noticed looks better when a figure is illustrated without a background (Bad integration of the background and foreground is an issue in digital art) and even better when done in a b/w sketch-book style. (Like a lot of Mork Borg done by turbo design obsessed digital artists who none-the-less understood this fact and wanted to recapture the feel and tone of the books they grew up on.) A lot of digital art has weird perfect and transparent rectangle "brush strokes" that look like photoshop layers because they are photoshop layers. It's so much easier and faster to add fine details physically.
I don't know why GW can't afford to have inhouse sketch and painting artists or have some of their staff learn to draw instead of hiring a lot of indifferent digital artists since their brand and universes are the basis of their monopoly and keeping the perception of them healthy involves having excellent art. You see some stuff in modern army books and codices and wonder why they thought it was needed or how they could accept paying the artists. If those works had been real oil paintings they'd refuse them as unfinished or not up to par but somehow digital art gets a pass to look bad. The more GW uses digital art from a huge pool of digital artists the more it has to conform to a house style and the more generic it looks in general and looks like all other sci-fi and fantasy settings using poor quality digital art when it used to have the best art by a mile.
Even the really good works like the cover for the GSC codex has issues, look at the ring of light-coloured figures in the middle ground.
Ash, with the release of the Old World, will we see a rematch of your dwarves against Clarence's Life Wizard/Double Steamtank list? Green Flames of Life!
Played WHFB back in the elden days, around 4th-5th ed., and while I have little interest in revisiting the game, I appreciate the historical perspective Ash provides.
I like the intro with Ash playing 3-card-Monty with Warhammer Rule Books. 😄😄😄
For me, the best part about this new release is that it adds fresh conversion fodder for Inq28/Necromunda style games.
It feels like there's also a lot of Warmaster influence incorporated, like with the combat resolution. (The push back rules are very similar.)
no Skaven army no money from me ...
You’ve got a bit wrong at the start you say it takes place around 100 years after sigmar left , that would be 180IC but it confirmed to be set in 2276 IC that way past sigmar
Looking forward to many new adventures in the old world
Love the intro to this review with all the old versions. Nicely done
Just a bit of correction, you stated it is a bit after Sigmar, but it is set in the year 2276. So 2276 after Sigmar. You can expect pretty much all pointy ears character to still be around. Maybe a few dwarves (will the high king be present as a princeling?)
And about 30 years before the next Chaos incursion of Asavar Kull, if that can hint you of a road map.
Well since we are needing imperial calendar does not start at sigmars birthday but at sigmars coronation. :P
It's about 20 years before the Affair of the False Grail too, right?
@@christopherclayton5500 Yup, according to some wiki, the false Grail happens in 2297 (1319 in the Bretonnian calenders)
And most importantly, Settra the Imperishable! :)
Seems like a good mixture, actually, of old and new models. We'll see how it goes!
I really care about: (1) Vampire Counts; (2) Wood Elves; (3) Orcs & Goblins; (4) Skaven; (5) Tomb Kings; (6) High Elves; and (7) Dwarfs. (Was not a huge fan of the others, anyway.)
Glad some of them seem to be coming back in their original state! :D
Gonna buy me a War Sphinx and maybe Sepulchral Stalkers since I always wanted these. Will ebay me the new Bretonian Pegasus Rider and the Bone Dragon from the starter boxes in the next months and that will be it for me. Watched GWs Batrep and altough it made me sentimental the fact that the still refuse to consider alternating activations just kills it for me. Don't wanna go back. But it surely is nice that the Old World could return!
Thanks for this, it was useful - a proper analysis!
Sword's of Might, Enchanted Shields, Dispel Scroll's, brings a tear to my eye.
Good this game is about what I expected. Thanks for the confirmation Ash! Now just hope it doesn't sell out once the Canadian GW store opens up with the pre-orders....
I got my pre-order in with a reseller for the core book and Ravening Hordes just after midnight when they put pre-orders online. Checked back this morning and nearly everything is gone now.
I would love to see an adaptation of "Triumph and Treachery" for this edition
Amazing review as always, Thank you for your time and effort you put into this!
Thanks for that last 30 seconds your video got me hyped and now I'm hyped to take my time. All my old armies are long gone so I'm going to have to(get to) start fresh
I picked up the rulebook this morning! Lets see how this goes
Great job on these! I love the look of the books. Didnt pre order, but looking forward to picking up bits and pieces
Ash Barker and WHFB just hits right every time :)
Great review and overview of the book! Very excited for it.
Saturday morning reviews 🎉🎊🥳
Yeah that always strikes first combined with the initiative of old Elves definitely encouraged those 100man bricks with Teclis haha. That's when I stopped playing. Tomb Kings chariots would charge that brick on the flank and thanks to steadfast, I'd just die and crumble from combat res. Wow! Loving these new core rules
woah been away awhile and the intro music changed :O excited to see you cover more of this, wish the rules alone weren't so expensive but i will get it...such a beautiful book and i miss fantasy
Don't know the Warhammer lore but it seems strange Skaven aren't in this game. For me Skaven is pure Old World.
The Skaven were in the middle if a huge Civil War during this time period.
Old World only has factions that are not in Age of Sigmar, so no Skaven for us.
Skaven are the only army I truly care about, and I hate AoS. The fact that they're not here, and likely won't be for years on end, is a deal killer.
In the lore they recently made a HUGE power grab and, in proper Skaven manner, their in fighting cost them the entire Empire. So, for now, they are licking thier wounds and watching. Unless there are schemes in Cathay afoot 🤔
@@nathanstruble2177
I'm sure there's no major or minor clans that would war for food after the large Civil War.
Old Warhammer Fantasy set up a world where anyone could fight anyone, for good reason. Cutting out factions that people want to play just creates dissatisfaction.
One huge change is that all charges are declared first, then all reactions are declared, then you charge.
Gone are the shenanigans of 8th where you'd charge 1 unit, get in, then charge another and the opponent would just flee, denying combat
ive got nearly a full vampire counts army, im just missing a black coach grave guard and terrorgeist and coven thronew thats it and 2 more different corpse carts i only have 1. i notice in the game now wights and graveguard seem to be different
Pretty rulebook, but I'll stick with Conquest: Last Argument of Kings
yes!!! can't wait to work on this
I’m so glad I never rebased my stuff.
I mean, now I’m rebasing 5 armies I have in the FoF/RH books, the other six (I have collected continuously since 1993, so I have a lot)will remain on their original square bases. If I use the pdf armies in Old World, I’ll just use conversion trays, as they seem to be popping up everywhere.
From what I’ve seen so far, they did a great job with rules. My only complaint is that we don’t get a free wheel, and only because measuring wheels always creates problems at tournaments. As a TO, there is always “that guy” who abuses it. Also, with such short charge ranges (which I like, it definitely made WAP more interesting), paying for wheels eats up a ton of movement. I think a free wheel up to even 45* would have been a better rule.
Minor stuff though, I am incredibly excited!
Looks like my screaming bell will have to stay in the shoe box for another decade but I may get to fire the hail of doom arrow.
Loving the intro, christ it was great
Great video Ash. Thanks!
Thank you for the review Ash, keep it up
Great videos serie ! I have a question about characters on chariot. All the Monstrous Mounts give bonus Wound (and sometimes Toughness) to their rider, but what about Chariot ? Is a Character on chariot getting 3-4 extra wound also ?
Hi ash, ive been watching on and off for a few years but ive never actually played a wargame would it be a good idea to pick up a starter set and get in on the ground floor? Or should start out with a smaller game like warcry?
I used to have 3 armies in WFB that I loved to play. Empire, Chaos Warriors and High Elves
I was thinking this was going to be an 8.5 edition, glad I watched your video
It's essentially 8th Ed, as everything has steadfast now. The rules incentivize you to run mega units in the form of conga lines. Because they basically removed the base to base requirement for models in the front rank to fight. Also, you ignore the universal steadfast rule if you outnumber your opponent 2:1.
Tournaments are planning on hotfixes, for this they need to at least set maximum widths to 10ish if not reinstate the btb rule.
@@evanwoodham6296I have seen a fraction of the new spells and rules but a fair few spells would make that strategy rather risky.
I don't think it will be af effective as you imagine.
I really like this 🔥🔥🔥
The best part is, I can break out all my Bretonians Idid not paint from years ago and not paint them now! seriously, I gotta work on my follow through better!
I’m really interested in seeing what the Chaos Dwarf pdf has
Oh the Oldhammer feels are so good...
Still haven’t played AOS! The old world lives!
Thanks for this Ash. 6th Ed was the Warhammer/miniature game that I had the most involvement with. Weekend long games on my mates spare room floor, with 4-5 generals and very few painted minis. Almost always getting distracted by LOTR or the other films we would have on “in the background”. Now 20 years on I feel I can do an army justice and getting started on some Orcs and Goblins. This sounds exactly what I was hoping for, thanks for the video and thanks for all you do for this hobby
It's essentially 8th Ed, as everything has steadfast now. The rules incentivize you to run mega units in the form of conga lines. Because they basically removed the base to base requirement for models in the front rank to fight. Also, you ignore the universal steadfast rule if you outnumber your opponent 2:1.
Tournaments are planning on hotfixes, for this they need to at least set maximum widths to 10ish if not reinstate the btb rule.
@@evanwoodham6296 Not sure we are seeing the same ruleset, because while in a vacuum a conga line sounds good for the combat phase, it is terrible pretty much anywhere else and I feel like this ruleset, with the detachment rules and the limits to rank bonus favour more small-medium size units, very far away from mega units.
@Durgil2000 It rewards one mega unit because of the random charges rule. Because of it you can't multi charge reliability or consistently enough to gang up on 1 mega unit with multiple smaller units. And even if you did, swordmasters would wipe your front ranks and then ignore the retreat in good order rule because they outnumber you 2:1
@@evanwoodham6296 it is perfectly possible to do multiple charges on a large unit. Even if you need a 4+ to reach with infantry, that's 75% chance per unit. Swordmasters at 14 pts per model are really not cheap and with a 5+ 6++ would melt very fast. For just 1 attack Str 5 per models... You would definitively not outnumber your multiple opponent units 2 to 1 nor wipe the floor (except maybe against goblins, but anybody can do that). I feel like you are trying to create a boogyman with a non-issue. Go try your super unit of Swordmasters on a table against a real opponent and come back telling us the result.
@Durgil2000 It's less than that, as swordmasters have a chance of charging you. In general you have about a 50/50 of getting the jump with one infantry unit. If you're trying to combo charge with a larger number of units, you won't be able to get too many in. Not enough to compete with the conga line
I love your videos in general, but this was in particular has gotten me excited for a new game.
Can you do a video covering terrain rules? specifically how garrisoning works? yeah, i could just wait 2 weeks. but im too hyped and need to know if its worth finishing painting my buildings. Thanks!
It's always worth finishing terrain!
You're doing the Lord's work. Thanks for these videos.
Great. I love your reviews sir.
A note: MESBG magical powers are only done in the Movement phase, as the caster moves
great vid, Ash. Thanks :)
This is a good overview, kind of still wanting to play my main armies. First impressions the fact you can measure and move is good.
The retreat rules feel a bit more complicated but loosing super badly is less game ending.
I am probably still going to play 8th if I can, this is nice to have.
I give TOW a MASSIVE thumbs up, I LOVE it! But then i loved 6th Ed the most..
And I am usually grumpy as fuck and backwards.. So that is a huge score from me..
I haven't been so happy for Warhammer in a long time and TOW take me back to the good 'ol Eatons Center days! Really looking forward to fielding my Warriors of Chaos KISS army again! Great review as always, Ash!
Glad to hear there's a 44x30 option, cause that's all the room I have
Let's wargame like it's 1999...
With 2024 prices.
GW demo game had me disappointed but this review actually gets me interested again to have another look.
Does the second rank of monster sized units attack fully in this edition? Ogres, trolls, Minotaurs, and treekin, used to fight as two ranks a la normal sized spear units. Still the case or no? It helps to know before hand for movement tray making. Cheers!
a dwarf can have tough 10 !! great video!
Vampire counts are a pretty compatible with both AoS and OW too, along with shaven and probably lizard men too
Thank you for this review. Very helpful! Glad that they are putting it together the way I hoped they might. Do you know when the armies book is being released?
(armies list books)
Nevermind - I figured it out! Thanks for the review!
Well done video and great content.
Love the colour of the books and nearly bought the core book on that alone...
So AP is always a seperate value? Does a great weapon has ap or just higher strength?
Great weapon has S+2 and AP 2.
You don't modify AP with strength any more.
I got a bit confused about the considerations about MESBG spells when talking about the new spell structure. I believe you mixed it up somewhat with the dynamics of Heroic Actions - Those happen as appropriate. Magic on MESBG always happen on the movement of the caster (And one of the most popular ways of shutting down a cast is just charging the caster before he gets to move).
I love the new intro
You did good reading.
I am interested in how the new Killing Blow and heroic Killing blow works.
Also: Are cannons still auto-killing monsters and characters?
Seems like artillery is overall weaker. On average you need 3 shots to kill a monster now, 2 if you are lucky. This is what another reviewer said at least.
@@LordEsel88 thx!
@lestrike2707 as an empire player they never auto killed, I have rolled many 1's to wound 😂
@@NapoleonicWargaming That's a bit unlucky.
I once got very lucky when I one-shotted a Bloodthirster with my Screaming Skull Catapult on turn 1, instantly winning me the game because of the specific victory conditions of the match.
I've got PTSD from losing every Monster with the first shot.@@NapoleonicWargaming
The Dwarfs are cross platform too.
Super awesome breakdown!
It would be nice if this heralded rhe return of the original book / supplements of the game that first introduced me to Warhammer and Games Workshop waaaay back in 87 or 88. WHFP - Warhammer Fantasy Role Play!
For that matter, bring back and update the game that really got me into 40k - Space Hulk! I got my copy for $1 at the grand opening of the first US GW store. Camped out overnight to be one of the 1st 10 in for the official Grand Opening (the store was open before then).
It's been a very long time since anything Warhammer related stirred my blood. Might be time to dust off those armies that I still have which have been in boxes since the end of 7th. Thanks for the review, as always.
One thing I'd love to see, would've been the the rank and file restriction being replaced with 1" coherency for open order(also making it an option for everyone), alongside the effects of disrupted (+no supporting attacks). That could've cleared up physical terrain interactions significantly.
Are there charge reactions? I didn’t hear you talk about that.
as an old (1980ties) Warhammer Player ( WHFB and RPG ) I just say : I like it. Having literally thousands of minis, I still decided to setup 2 new armies for TOW : Middenheim-themed Empire and , finally after so many years of waiting, Tomb Kings ( missed those out during 6th./7th and 8th...)
Gonna have a full watch later but can anyone highlight what it says about ‘mercenaries’ in the book? Intrigued as to how they are different to allies.
It seems to be a catch all for units they’ll come up with later, particularly in Arcane journals. Check out the Bretonnian Exiles section of their review for an example.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames great, good to hear. That leaves lots of design space for things like regiments of renown, scenario/event specific units, generic monsters etc.
I hope the PDF armies have access to allies and mercenaries. The announcement about them yesterday had me a little downbeat to tell the truth.
The not having the aos armies in this is baffling, you would think that they would want to double dip there sales
yeah, at one point i was thinking to myself why not just use the AOS armies ported over to "beta test" the game for a while, then do a proper full roll out of fresh minis later on. still would get a ton of book sales and boost AOS sales also
As a Horus Heresy + 40k player, you'd think so.
I feel like I got in an actual fistfight ever since that preorder
Gotta say I knew this day would come. Told my GW manager back in the day when they released AOS the old world would return sometime. I like AOS but glad its back. I predict it will sell well enough that it will return as a core game again.
Worth noting, unit will get broken and not fall back in good order if winner has more than twice their US. So you CAN break units in one go.
I may be wrong but I think this rule only applies to terror-causing units.
I think there is a change in Panic what if you have more than 50% of your original size you do not flee if you lose your panic test you fall back in good order. That is a crucial change if I am not mistaken.
Linehammer! Fantastic!!
I see it are Monster keyword and Behemoth keyword now. Before it was just Monster keyword. What do these does in OW?
I´m almost hyped.. Still will stick to 6th Ed.. But depends on how many I can play with I guess.. I will miss that magic though..
@GuerrillaMiniatureGames bro, did you skip the T10 dwarflord with S6 weapon and 6 W on shieldbearers or? "no supermonsters" 21:20
Good luck getting him in combat lol
But yes, there is one army that can go above T6… and I’m not gonna lie. I’m not mad at it.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames idk with all the shooting and such no need to move, but it seems all books are kinda of strong. thanks for sharing the books tho.
Can you only shoot with the front rank now instead of in 2 ranks? Feels a bit rubbish if thats true for anyone who doesn't have a bow.
So can you take an armour, ward and regeneration save one after the other for a model, or is it choose the best?
All three.
@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames ooo the fiendish high Elven ploys I have in mind...
Thanks. Subbed as well :)
Interesting new intro music. Kind of like waiting for an elevator to get to my floor.
Can I just say, I LOVE the chill vibe of the new intro! 🤙
I love the direction they went with the game. I never really played 6th but i still like the ruleset. That being said, no step-up males me nervous as, to me, it never feels nice to simply not be able to play the game (fate dice did this at the beginning of 10th 40k).
Saying that, with the way initiative works it seems that this issuse may be addressed with increased tactical granularity.
The terror + swiftstride rules combo also have me nervous however...
What’s the thought on the sepia looks of all the art and the lack of colour/variety?
I love it personally. They still have the big colour plates and army shots, the more muted rulebook pages and army lists makes things easier on the eyes
Can you post some clearer images of the spell/magic pages please?