Great to see the USB4 issue on AMD Ryzen laptops getting finally resolved 🥰🥳👍. I currently use an AM5 Asus mobo w/ USB4 and its drivers are a bit buggy still ….. I hope this gets resolved promptly too now 😇🤞
I can’t wait till USB4 becomes the standard. The USB standard has become a mess and adding USB C connectors to USB3.2 and Thunderbolt (which is a total different technology) only add to the confusion. USB4 can replace display port for good as it should inherit the display capabilities as thunderbolt.
DisplayPort over USB C is basically a hack and it has issues/weirdness once you try to drive displays above 4k120. It's not the holy grail everyone wants it to be, what we need is PCIe over wire, because everything wants to be PCIe anyway, once you go fast enough.
Be nice to finally see AMD laptops with USB 4. I know there were one or two previously but they were almost impossible to find. They're nice to have for high speed external expansion.
Question is will we eventually see this come to the Zenbook S13 OLED 6800U Laptop that you reviewed last year via a future BIOS update. If not, what is or could be the reason holding or preventing this from happening?
The problem is AMD not giving proper support for the feature. Possibly not having proper drivers/controllers. So you end up paying more for a feature that's just half baked.
There are two types of USB 4, 40Gbs and 80Gbs. Most laptops that I know only support 40Gbs which is equal to TB4 speed. I'm waiting for a USB 4 v2 with 80Gbs.
Question about using an egpu over usb4, do I need to switch off the discreet graphics to make it work? I seem to get blue screen crashes when I try to enable both discreet and egpu.
It's about time that AMD caught up to Intel in regard to Thunderbolt/USB 4. It may not really impact me, as I've historically favored Intel for my systems, and my laptop (HP OMEN 17) has Thunderbolt 4; however, it's really cool to see that AMD finally has USB 4 support. That means that going forward, I can consider AMD systems in the future since I value having high-bandwidth connectivity.
Have you tested TB3, TB2 or TB audio interfaces (such as Universal Audio Apollo with external DSPs, Presonus Quantum, Motu, Focusrite Clarett, etc...) on USB4 Ryzen laptops? This would be very important and useful information for us musicians. Also more extensive testing of TB3 and TB2 docking stations would really be beneficial. Do they all work, especially the display connections...?
The same as Gen4-SSD in a PCIe3.0-Slot, it will just max out the possible speeds of the given connection. Maximum bandwidth (@read speeds minus overhead) for PCIe3.0x4 is 3740 MB/s, 4.0 = 7480 MB/s and PCIe5.0 will have 14960 MB/s. So, in this case, the sequential speeds will be limited to ~ 7,4/7,0 reads/writes.
Took them only 4 years to get it working with no hassle. Seriously AMD need to step up their game in support for connector like this on mobile platforms, if they want to be strong contenders. Last year I skipped buying a Ryzen based laptops because of no support for USB 4 and also limited offerings at my local shops. USB 4 version 2.0 or the new name USB 80Gbps (ffs USB-IF and their naming scheme) spec came out last year. Let's see how long we will see 80Gbps USB fully supported on Ryzen systems.
probably intel to blame with thunderbolt 3 licence and whatnot oh, that and the fact AMD was 10% the size of intel, and they also do GPUs and prettysure had to sell their HQ to not go bankrupt So they really were not swimming in money until now. |That being said, AMD is being pretty anti consumer with RDNA3 and the high prices, but they were never our friends to begin with.
@@user-lp5wb2rb3v USB4 is its own thing, and TB3 support is not required what so ever. In the end I needed laptop with USB 4 for docks and other peripherals, apple had ones, intel based system many of them had ones, but non from AMD when I looked at local suppliers. I was in favor of buying ryzen system, but the lack of options swayed me from buying one...
I'm VERY late to the Razer Core X eGPU enclosure party, but that thing is AWESOME!!! I have one hooked up to my older Intel NUC (8th gen) and I was actually pleasantly surprised that it worked because a) I didn't know that it support Thunderbolt devices (but I am VERY glad that it did), and b) I didn't buy said NUC with the expressed intent nor purpose of being able to connect an eGPU to it, years later. So it was a very nice surprise.
I got USB4 port working well on my new ROG flow x13 2023, I didn't even know that it was unlocked recently but I've surely updated the bios when it came.
yeah but what about 4k random r/w. My eperience with a asm2464pd controller are not that good for some reason.... I've been trying it with a sk hynix 2 TB platinum p41 : writes in Crystal disk mark just hit 22.02 MB/s. 16GiB, test on empty drive , 5 runs test. Random reads 73,92 MB/s Curious to see how much an Optane p1600x will be chocked in that TB enclosure.
Finally, this took awhile and from the comments it's apparent many are aware of either USB-IFs and Intel's involvement in getting thunderbolt into USB4 and just are ignorantly bashing AMD lol. People need to take a step back and think about it, Why would Intel go out of their way to benefit AMD especially since they are direct competitors? They won't, Intel easily could have provided the engineering support in getting thunderbolt working via USB for USB-IF. Providing the Specifications is one thing, providing engineering support is another.
Lenovo has had USB4 AMD Ryzen laptops since q3/q4 2022... I know because my work issued me one and I used a TB4 dock with it in Linux for months... So this is factually not the first. You just took almost an entire year to get to it...
Gordon, can you test USB4 docking station with 2 monitors? I read somewhere TB3 & 4 supports 2 DP streams, but USB4 only supports 1 DP stream and it's only unidirectional. Can you confirm this? Until I read that in Wikapedia, I was under the impression that USB4 supported everything under TB3, so please confirm if USB4 actually works with dual monitors via a TB3/4 dock. Thanks.
I thought this already worked on laptops like Lenovo Thinkbook 13s Gen4 with Ryzen 6000 series which is why I got it in case I needed TB3. Its datasheet also says usb4. I don't recall beta BIOS for it. There's already a video with it running with external GPU form last year. Were there bugs in that generation?
my biggest annoyance with people demanding these be in their next laptop is what the hell can you even use it for? other than ungodly expensive business grade internet, or a NAS which most people dont have, or an eGPU thats financially stupid. i just dont see the point of things that extreme
Some laptops only have USB C. I use it all the time (but Thunderbolt 4). I use 2 of them to hook up to my monitors to get 4K120hz and then another one for peripherals: keyboard/mouse/camera/speakers.
Also according to USB4 spec it operates at thunderbolt 3 highest. It is not the same as thunderbolt 4. You have your information wrong. Fortunately TB4 can down negotiate to TB3 and earlier.
It's great that AMD has USB4 support but how valuable is it when the Razor Blade 14 already has a Dedicated GPU and an AI processor for 2k USD in total. The real benefits of USB4 comes when you can go out and buy a $600 laptop with a decent CPU and no dedicated GPU/AI chips, then plug it into and an eGPU that costs $400. Then you can do all your gaming AI workloads for 1k USD.
For zen4 phoenix (HS & U), the controller is included or built in on IO die, but it depends to manufactur/brands whether they want to give these feature enable or not from their BIOS. But for zen4 dragon range (HX), it must add the chip controller since it doesn't have embedded controller on it's IO Die.
I own a Lenovo ThinkBook 13s G4 with one USB4 port and my experience is frankly terrible. Compatiblity with TB3/TB4 devices is a hit and miss. I tested with several eGPU (Zotac, Akitio, Coolermaster, Gigabyte) enclosures.
I have the exact same laptop. I thought both C ports were USB4? I can charge it through either one but I don't have anything external I need to plug into them, so I never knew they weren't working. I love this laptop and thought everything was fine with it.
It is sad it has taken so long. I wish Windows PCs were as quick and efficient as Apple Macs in adopting new USB and Thunderbolt standards. For me eGPU support is the main use case for new standards of USB and Thunderbolt. It pains me we are still at 40G. We need that doubled like yesterday. OCULINK and the ASUS XG Mobile proprietary connector are doing better than USB or Thunderbolt. My fear is by the time we see adequate bandwidth to support eGPUs the iGPUs will be adequate enough for 1080p 120fps.
@@johnpp21 Thunderbolt 4 and USB4 are based on PCIe 3.0x4 32GT/s. Thunderbolt 5 and USB4 Version 2.0 is also based on PCIe 3.0x4. It switches from using NRZ encoding to PAM-3 encoding which allows for double the bandwidth. A key mode is instead of having 80G biderectional transfers it can be split 120G/40G which can help with eGPUs or support for DisplayPort 2.1.
@@EnochGitongaKimathi ok been reading the usb4v2 and tb5, its either using pcie 4.0/5.0(more likely). PAM-3 is used for the transfering the display data, it wont be helpful for egpu users as it uses pcie tunneling so theres no latency penalty. so we probably get 64gbps of pcie speed if it uses pcie 4.0x4
@@johnpp21 Thunderbolt 5 and USB4 V2.0 are both based on PCIe 3.0. PAM-3 is what allows for the doubling in bandwidth from 40G using 4 lanes to 80G. It has a mode that can split the lanes to use 6 lanes in one direction and 2 lanes the other. I'm not sure why both USB-If and Intel ha E decided to stick with PCIe 3.0 instead of moving to PCIe 4.0 or PCIe 5.0.
Hey just so you know, I play VR, and USB 3.0 is an absolute must. Not only that but quickly transfering humongous files, e-gpu's, display, and high speed ethernet. Just because you dont need it doesn't mean other people don't need it.
I need at least USB 3 I run external monitors from my work desk. I also enjoy the write speeds from external enclosures. USB 2.0 is great for a mouse and that's about it
USB standards are a mess...
I really wish it was oculink rather than usb4 for eGPU
Great to see the USB4 issue on AMD Ryzen laptops getting finally resolved 🥰🥳👍. I currently use an AM5 Asus mobo w/ USB4 and its drivers are a bit buggy still ….. I hope this gets resolved promptly too now 😇🤞
Umm, that is an Intel problem then, isn't it? ASUS AM5 boards like ROG Crosshair X670E are using *Intel's* JHL8540 USB4 controller for the USB4 ports.
Gordon, EXACTLY the information i was looking for regarding usb4 spec in these new ryzen APU. Appreciate ya!
I can’t wait till USB4 becomes the standard. The USB standard has become a mess and adding USB C connectors to USB3.2 and Thunderbolt (which is a total different technology) only add to the confusion.
USB4 can replace display port for good as it should inherit the display capabilities as thunderbolt.
What is it that makes thunderbolt so special that usb doesn't have?
DisplayPort over USB C is basically a hack and it has issues/weirdness once you try to drive displays above 4k120. It's not the holy grail everyone wants it to be, what we need is PCIe over wire, because everything wants to be PCIe anyway, once you go fast enough.
@@owlmostdead9492
Exactly. PCIe is all we need.
@@defnotatroll
PCIe tunneling.
@@samlebon9884 thanks for the reply. What's PCie tunneling? Basically thunderbolt gives you access to the PCIe "slot" on the laptop?
Be nice to finally see AMD laptops with USB 4. I know there were one or two previously but they were almost impossible to find. They're nice to have for high speed external expansion.
Looking Forward to this Technology becoming Mainstream especially on Desktops.
and finally the Thunderbolt monopoly is going to END.... it is great for the consumers...
Question is will we eventually see this come to the Zenbook S13 OLED 6800U Laptop that you reviewed last year via a future BIOS update. If not, what is or could be the reason holding or preventing this from happening?
The problem is AMD not giving proper support for the feature. Possibly not having proper drivers/controllers. So you end up paying more for a feature that's just half baked.
Cool, i didn't even know about USB4. I only have 1 device that is USB3 still
There are two types of USB 4, 40Gbs and 80Gbs. Most laptops that I know only support 40Gbs which is equal to TB4 speed. I'm waiting for a USB 4 v2 with 80Gbs.
Thanks Gordon. So mostly all OEM should have USB 4 support without waiting for new bios which never arrived
Excited for Framework with double USB4
Question about using an egpu over usb4, do I need to switch off the discreet graphics to make it work? I seem to get blue screen crashes when I try to enable both discreet and egpu.
does this means we can now plug external gpus into working usb4 slots?
Would have been great to actually see some games running with the eGPU.
USB4 eGPU testing coming soon!
-Adam
@@pcworldsoon like a week, weeks, months or years?
It's about time that AMD caught up to Intel in regard to Thunderbolt/USB 4. It may not really impact me, as I've historically favored Intel for my systems, and my laptop (HP OMEN 17) has Thunderbolt 4; however, it's really cool to see that AMD finally has USB 4 support. That means that going forward, I can consider AMD systems in the future since I value having high-bandwidth connectivity.
Have you tested TB3, TB2 or TB audio interfaces (such as Universal Audio Apollo with external DSPs, Presonus Quantum, Motu, Focusrite Clarett, etc...) on USB4 Ryzen laptops? This would be very important and useful information for us musicians.
Also more extensive testing of TB3 and TB2 docking stations would really be beneficial. Do they all work, especially the display connections...?
I've been very interested in testing audio interfaces for sure, do you have any specific way you'd like to see it tested?
-Adam
Good to know USB 4 is borked on AMD. I'll have to pay attention to the news and see how things progress.
Hey, can you check if a Pcie 5 M.2 SSD will run at the theoretical max speed on a PCIe 4.0 slot?
The same as Gen4-SSD in a PCIe3.0-Slot, it will just max out the possible speeds of the given connection. Maximum bandwidth (@read speeds minus overhead) for PCIe3.0x4 is 3740 MB/s, 4.0 = 7480 MB/s and PCIe5.0 will have 14960 MB/s. So, in this case, the sequential speeds will be limited to ~ 7,4/7,0 reads/writes.
Took them only 4 years to get it working with no hassle.
Seriously AMD need to step up their game in support for connector like this on mobile platforms, if they want to be strong contenders.
Last year I skipped buying a Ryzen based laptops because of no support for USB 4 and also limited offerings at my local shops.
USB 4 version 2.0 or the new name USB 80Gbps (ffs USB-IF and their naming scheme) spec came out last year.
Let's see how long we will see 80Gbps USB fully supported on Ryzen systems.
Rembrandt (Ryzen 6000) was first SOC with USB 4. Launched 1 1/2 years ago. Broadly available barely more than 1 year.
probably intel to blame with thunderbolt 3 licence and whatnot
oh, that and the fact AMD was 10% the size of intel, and they also do GPUs and prettysure had to sell their HQ to not go bankrupt
So they really were not swimming in money until now.
|That being said, AMD is being pretty anti consumer with RDNA3 and the high prices, but they were never our friends to begin with.
@@user-lp5wb2rb3v USB4 is its own thing, and TB3 support is not required what so ever. In the end I needed laptop with USB 4 for docks and other peripherals, apple had ones, intel based system many of them had ones, but non from AMD when I looked at local suppliers. I was in favor of buying ryzen system, but the lack of options swayed me from buying one...
probably 2-3 more years for usb4 80/120gbps devices
only intel can speed up this progress with their thunderbolt 5 controllers
@@johnpp21 OCUlink would be more useful honestly
I'm VERY late to the Razer Core X eGPU enclosure party, but that thing is AWESOME!!!
I have one hooked up to my older Intel NUC (8th gen) and I was actually pleasantly surprised that it worked because a) I didn't know that it support Thunderbolt devices (but I am VERY glad that it did), and b) I didn't buy said NUC with the expressed intent nor purpose of being able to connect an eGPU to it, years later.
So it was a very nice surprise.
I got USB4 port working well on my new ROG flow x13 2023, I didn't even know that it was unlocked recently but I've surely updated the bios when it came.
Hi I've also just bought the new Flow X13. How did you update de bios, is it automatic update through Asus software? Thx
yeah but what about 4k random r/w. My eperience with a asm2464pd controller are not that good for some reason.... I've been trying it with a sk hynix 2 TB platinum p41 : writes in Crystal disk mark just hit 22.02 MB/s. 16GiB, test on empty drive , 5 runs test. Random reads 73,92 MB/s
Curious to see how much an Optane p1600x will be chocked in that TB enclosure.
Finally, this took awhile and from the comments it's apparent many are aware of either USB-IFs and Intel's involvement in getting thunderbolt into USB4 and just are ignorantly bashing AMD lol. People need to take a step back and think about it, Why would Intel go out of their way to benefit AMD especially since they are direct competitors?
They won't, Intel easily could have provided the engineering support in getting thunderbolt working via USB for USB-IF. Providing the Specifications is one thing, providing engineering support is another.
Great vid! Is the EGPU benchmark test coming out next? :)
It's on the list!
-Adam
Lenovo has had USB4 AMD Ryzen laptops since q3/q4 2022... I know because my work issued me one and I used a TB4 dock with it in Linux for months... So this is factually not the first. You just took almost an entire year to get to it...
And I didn't need to use a beta BIOS
Does usbg4 really have a larger data capacity (40mb) as opposed to 30mb/sec plus some overhead?
very cool video Gordon!
Can I get the same results from TB4 devices with USB4 cable, specifically the Belkin INZ001 (INZ001bt0.8MBK)?
What software is can use with amd usb 4 dock?
Gordon, can you test USB4 docking station with 2 monitors? I read somewhere TB3 & 4 supports 2 DP streams, but USB4 only supports 1 DP stream and it's only unidirectional. Can you confirm this? Until I read that in Wikapedia, I was under the impression that USB4 supported everything under TB3, so please confirm if USB4 actually works with dual monitors via a TB3/4 dock. Thanks.
Framework laptop will have that CPU too! U know
I'm excited about this, we can finally use eGPU
@@ScrinGuard yes I want 7040 16" Framework just as soon as touchscreen is an option!
Take that 12 pound desktop replacement laptops of yesteryear!
My pc doesnt show eject for tb3 devices. Anyone have tips? Lenovo thinkpad x390 yoga and windows 10
Great thanks
I wanna see this on framework laptops so to connect external gpus over tb3
What about asus G14 2024 ? Is there any chance to work everything also this way ?
Tengo entendido que USB4 es en realidad Thunderbolt 3 (el cual intel liberó la pantente de la misma).
I thought this already worked on laptops like Lenovo Thinkbook 13s Gen4 with Ryzen 6000 series which is why I got it in case I needed TB3. Its datasheet also says usb4. I don't recall beta BIOS for it. There's already a video with it running with external GPU form last year. Were there bugs in that generation?
Finally. Now I can actually consider AMD for my next laptop purchase.
my biggest annoyance with people demanding these be in their next laptop is what the hell can you even use it for? other than ungodly expensive business grade internet, or a NAS which most people dont have, or an eGPU thats financially stupid. i just dont see the point of things that extreme
Some laptops only have USB C. I use it all the time (but Thunderbolt 4). I use 2 of them to hook up to my monitors to get 4K120hz and then another one for peripherals: keyboard/mouse/camera/speakers.
would it work on my laptop? i have a ryzen 5 7530u.
Also according to USB4 spec it operates at thunderbolt 3 highest. It is not the same as thunderbolt 4. You have your information wrong. Fortunately TB4 can down negotiate to TB3 and earlier.
Can't you connect it to a monitor with USB4? I would have liked to see this demoed.
The G14 has it out of the box with PCIe tunneling. Not that I recommend Asus.
how is egpu performance compared to 3
How about the desktops?
th-cam.com/video/opPNKCh_Evo/w-d-xo.html
merci❤❤❤
Still hoping to see an external monitor someday. Why don't AMD just roll their own video spec?
It's great that AMD has USB4 support but how valuable is it when the Razor Blade 14 already has a Dedicated GPU and an AI processor for 2k USD in total. The real benefits of USB4 comes when you can go out and buy a $600 laptop with a decent CPU and no dedicated GPU/AI chips, then plug it into and an eGPU that costs $400. Then you can do all your gaming AI workloads for 1k USD.
👍 Chris Paul a Dub ???? WOW!
nice t-shirt again ^^
Show me an eGPU and will consider it as in you know, render something with it
What controller is razer using for its usb4 support ?
Ryzen die has the controllers. Just needs proper BIOS support, as it appears this laptop does.
@@TheHardcardRight. It's down to the laptop manufacturer, not AMD, to offer it.
For zen4 phoenix (HS & U), the controller is included or built in on IO die, but it depends to manufactur/brands whether they want to give these feature enable or not from their BIOS. But for zen4 dragon range (HX), it must add the chip controller since it doesn't have embedded controller on it's IO Die.
@@TheHardcard The motherboard needs a USB4 retimer IC.
@@MattNeighbour Other circuits are needed, but the controller is on the SOC for two USB 4 ports.
they claim it’s so fast, hair would grow back on people’s head
FINALLY.
Coconut, when we will get usb4 pcie card 1x or 4x 😢?
I would rather oculink
One was announced at Computex, should be released this year.
@@MattNeighbour , nice
Oct 2023 just at the corner and no AMD gaming laptop with USB4
I own a Lenovo ThinkBook 13s G4 with one USB4 port and my experience is frankly terrible. Compatiblity with TB3/TB4 devices is a hit and miss. I tested with several eGPU (Zotac, Akitio, Coolermaster, Gigabyte) enclosures.
I have the exact same laptop. I thought both C ports were USB4? I can charge it through either one but I don't have anything external I need to plug into them, so I never knew they weren't working. I love this laptop and thought everything was fine with it.
"eGPU Test" doesn't start a game or at least a 3D benchmark.
I need a tablet whit usb 4.0
Is it usb 4.0? USB 4.O ? USB 4.0 X 2 X4 .4.1 X 4.0 X4 X2 or whatever ridiculous name they give it
It is sad it has taken so long. I wish Windows PCs were as quick and efficient as Apple Macs in adopting new USB and Thunderbolt standards.
For me eGPU support is the main use case for new standards of USB and Thunderbolt. It pains me we are still at 40G. We need that doubled like yesterday. OCULINK and the ASUS XG Mobile proprietary connector are doing better than USB or Thunderbolt.
My fear is by the time we see adequate bandwidth to support eGPUs the iGPUs will be adequate enough for 1080p 120fps.
im guessing the USB 4 80G/120G needs the pcie 5.0 because theres no way the current pcie 4.0 x4 lanes on laptop can hit 80/120gbps
@@johnpp21 Thunderbolt 4 and USB4 are based on PCIe 3.0x4 32GT/s. Thunderbolt 5 and USB4 Version 2.0 is also based on PCIe 3.0x4. It switches from using NRZ encoding to PAM-3 encoding which allows for double the bandwidth. A key mode is instead of having 80G biderectional transfers it can be split 120G/40G which can help with eGPUs or support for DisplayPort 2.1.
@@EnochGitongaKimathi i see, but isnt upcoming devices uses newer gen of pcie?
@@EnochGitongaKimathi ok been reading the usb4v2 and tb5, its either using pcie 4.0/5.0(more likely).
PAM-3 is used for the transfering the display data, it wont be helpful for egpu users as it uses pcie tunneling so theres no latency penalty. so we probably get 64gbps of pcie speed if it uses pcie 4.0x4
@@johnpp21 Thunderbolt 5 and USB4 V2.0 are both based on PCIe 3.0. PAM-3 is what allows for the doubling in bandwidth from 40G using 4 lanes to 80G. It has a mode that can split the lanes to use 6 lanes in one direction and 2 lanes the other.
I'm not sure why both USB-If and Intel ha E decided to stick with PCIe 3.0 instead of moving to PCIe 4.0 or PCIe 5.0.
Did you say a CPU with dedicated AI?
...
*NO THANK YOU!*
realiy see razor yes you pay premium for it. usb 4.0 with tunder bolt surport kinda can justify the preium i guess.bios version ?
I would still wait for another generation for firm certainty
Nice little plug fest. :)
lol what a joke. Keep beta testing for AMD for free XD
People don't need more than USB 2.0 anyway
Hey just so you know, I play VR, and USB 3.0 is an absolute must. Not only that but quickly transfering humongous files, e-gpu's, display, and high speed ethernet. Just because you dont need it doesn't mean other people don't need it.
@@technologicalelite8076ok
I need at least USB 3 I run external monitors from my work desk. I also enjoy the write speeds from external enclosures. USB 2.0 is great for a mouse and that's about it
Thanks Gordon. So mostly all OEM should have USB 4 support without waiting for new bios which never arrived