It's Time to Say Goodbye to Catan (and say hello to three other games)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2020
- #boardgames #review #catan
This video is sponsored by Skillshare. The first 1000 people to use this link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/nopunincluded11201
Big thanks to hbomberguy - you can find his channel here: / @hbomberguy
NPI is only possible because of your support through Patreon: / nopunincluded
Non-affiliate link for German Anno 1800: www.amazon.de/680428-Brettspi...
Review copies for Castles of Tuscany and Anno 1800 provided by their respective publishers.
Music by: Elaine Bladukienė
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This video is sponsored by Skillshare. The first 1000 people to use this link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/nopunincluded11201
Exelent video. You have a talent for explaining things, i enjoyed your video. (This are 3 interesting games, Anno is a game for me.)
1: New games are awesome so when covid 9 is over i will buy new board games.
2: You need the catan big box for 2 players. It has cards and 9 expansions and those make it a awesome game.
Did anyone else's eyes twitch when they saw two settlements right next to each other on his Catan board?
Yes!
You shouldn't care about a dead game's rules.
@@lutethearrow6605 Maybe, but what you and the youtuber fail to realize, is that those three games do each component of Catan better, but Catan does all three well. So it's not dead, not by a long shot.
The Orange settlement on its side bugged me.
@@jorgedasilva7665 My thoughts exactly, Catan does many things very well while other games focus on one of the many things Catan does very well. Only to do the one thing much better. This doesn't make them better, because Catan offers many experiences when another game only gives one experience. That's my thoughts on it.
After watchin, made my decision - its time to buy Catan!
I too love Catan👍
😅😅😅🤭
Do yourself a favour, buy Concordia. Scratches a similar itch but is superior in every way.
@@oceanblue5595the main issue with catan is if you randomise the tiles (which you will to create different games) the first player might get a single point, near a prefect port, the you all know means they've won before you play.
The game also creates a runaway win. As soon as someone gets a lead they'll get more resources and get better faster. The exact opposite of a catch-up mechanic.
It was my first "new" style game but now never gets played. 😢
@@knightshade4330that's where the robber comes in.
Is it weird this video made me appreciate Catan even more so? It is a classic game that blends together very well, is fun and has good amounts of strategy, luck, planning, and interaction.
It's not weird at all! You know what you like, and that's the important part.
@@NoPunIncluded Which is a really nice way of saying: "Yes, and you're wrong!" :D For what it's worth, I love Catan too!
The problem with Catan is that you have to play with the right types. If you play with people who refuse to trade or that don't care for games that don't provide players with a "final round" the experience can be quite rubbish.
Personally I can see why it's popular and I can see good game hiding there, I just don't have the right group to play with so Catan is a hard pass for us.
@@ClockworkWyrm I can honestly say in years of Catan games with many different people I've never had this problem.
@@ClockworkWyrm The "only trade with friends you most often game with" is a killer. Catan suffers from couples syndrome. This is where a couple consider themselves to win if either of the couple wins, so they help themselves constantly in competitive games where there can be only one winner. This is an immediate disadvantage for every other player at the table. "I don't want to help anyone else at the table but my friend/lover" means a key element of the Catan game falls apart. If the other two players don't notice this from turn 1 they are already 1+ turns behind.
“Sorry for the soup puns, I forgot to stock up on any other ones” I cannot tell if this was intentional or not, but it got a giggle out of me
It absolutely was. And I also giggled.
Definitely intentional and smart 😂
"Punishment With Squares" ... sounds like this could be a board game.
"You could make a religion outta thi-"
"No, don't."
So enjoyed the jazz music spots so lovingly spread over these beautiful games! Awesome video, great editing, love the concept of offering three modern alternatives to an older classic :)
Never! I'm not saying goodbye to Catan, you monsters!
My shelf is more than big enough to Anno and Catan.
It's time to say goodbye! But if there is kickstarter edition with 3d printed tiles and little wooden sheep then I might change my mind...
This was pure magic. It reminded me of early SU&SD (with Paul). Great dialogue, crisp editing, and a tight narrative. Well done!
Never expected an HBomberguy-Cameo here
They're British, everyone in Britain knows him. Legally.
A pleasant surprise😀
hbomberguy video bomb
Oh, you should do this with other games like Carcassonne and Ticket to Ride.
Nothing can replace Carcassonne! :P
and dominion
Amen! I'd love to see a show like that and dominion.
@@danimeisner9476 To each their own, but I feel that the expansions upon expansions of Dominion make it much more interesting
I don’t like Ticket to Ride, but if you want a light, fast, family friendly game I don’t think there’s anything that definitely replaces it.
I feel like Catan is unable to adapt; it’s status as the old reliable gateway game means people expect it to always be there, consistent and unchanging. I’d love to see where it could go if it went the Iwari route, but with so many great games coming out all the time, I’m happy for Catan to stay with its outdated roots. Great video to help people find alternatives.
01:36
My OCD kicks in...the blue and orange settlements...they can't...they must be...too close...
You don't have a clinical disorder
I was looking for someone else to notice that
I wonder if he did it on purpose to spite the game
This video is very well made. Love the humor and the way you compare the games man!
Hbomberguy! I love it!
You sir, are an absolute treasure. Such a fantastic writer and sense of humor. You’ve earned a new subscriber. Love your content, keep it coming! (also, can’t wait to try Iwari)
Hbomberguy in a tabletop review??? That's an instant sub.
"Is that Tom Brewster? Wait, that skeleton is fami--HARRY?"
Thank you for this vid! Was surprised that Anno 1800 was that good :) Immediatly cant wait to add it to the collection! Cheers Efka!!!
Did you buy it? How did it go?
Great video and great topic! Thank you!!
Catan (and later Ticket to Ride) were the games that kept me away from board games as a hobby. Both were introduced to me by friends who enjoyed hobby games - and I genuinely didn't enjoy either of them, especially Catan. It felt more like a social activity or placeholder to get together and just hang out. I just couldn't see the point. It wasn't until many years later when I lamented and agreed to play Puerto Rico that I saw potential for hobby games, then discovered 18xx, Lacerda, Splotter etc. and got hooked.
My point being, don't assume a non-gamer requires a simpler / gateway game in order to see the benefit & fun of hobby gaming. We use Viticulture, Food Chain Magnate, Gallerist, Cryptid and many others successfully as 'first games' for friends that then come into the hobby :).
I get you, tho from different perspective. My intro gsme was Citadels, and that was when I Got into gaming. If I was introducdd to typical euros first, i would flthink im not into this thing. I guess some people are into different things and to introduce someone you kinda need to know waht they like xd.
This was a neat way to connect several lite-reviews together of things. It's well past time to say goodbye, very apt
Oh man! Always good to see a suprise hbomberguy :P
Does this mean we can expect Lindsey Ellis and Olly Philosophy Tube to be in a SUSD video?
I think it means Contrapoints will appear on the Dice Tower
Honestly, I would pay good money to see Natalie give Tom a lot of sass.
@@NoPunIncluded If we can ensure Vasel's survival, I vote you pull some breadtube strings and make it happen 😄
I. Am. Here. For. It.
Bro, your camera qulity is so good, it made this video even more enjoyable to watch.
It *is* mint fresh. Thanks for playing and happy holidays! 💚
“Catan is old”
*wheezes in rocking chair* “Back in MY day, we had to scour the proto-Internet for a bad translation of the rules that we could print out on our dot-matrix printers (which were the style at the time).”
“If you want Anno 1800, you’ll have to get the English version of the rules off BGG-“
“Hah!”
“Or wait for the English version next year.”
“Darn kids and their unending flood of high quality games from all over the Earth.”
I still like Settlers...it has trading, dice, area control, resource management, engine building... it's not for everyone, I understand, but I still have a good time with it.
Me too. It's like poker. Strategic enough to be interesting, but with enough luck that a novice can win.
I've been playing it for 5 years. And I'm addicted to it. The blood, the sweat, the promises, the lies, the betrayals...
Excellent and thorough. Thank you so much for this video!
I wish I could like this video a thousand times. You do SO good NPI! I'm surprised the box held up at the end. And you're right. It is time to say goodbye.
CITIES AND KNIGHTS!! That's the next step after basic Catan!!
[3 hours later]
OK that was a little bit better than basic Catan
@@doktarr EXACTLY!
Nope.....time to move on. catan's time has come and go, a long time ago.
@@vanyaserra1 That's sort of the point of my response. Cities & Knights is a much better game but it takes much longer, and I'm not sure it really justifies the play time.
Starting with a settlement then a city in the base game, or two cities in Cities and knights, can make the game much more manageable!
I like your humor, set up and radiating kindness. Subscribed.
that hbomberguy cameo was fantastic
Came here to say this.
Did I just witness two villages next to each other?! Unforgivable!
A great video, as usually! Thanks for showing 3 games of different complexity that might be a good option to Catan as gateway games. Why you need pigs to make soap? My grandmother used to make soap with pork fat. She lived in poor rural area in southern Italy (in Calabria, more precisely) and it was crucial to exploit everything from their animals. Apparently, that soap had a very good detergent power. Might be that in 1800 lot of people did the same thing!
Haha, the tension at the end. I kept waiting for a car to drive over it, some one to walk by and pick it up, or for him to run back out to grab it! Lol, great vid.
I literally went to sleep last night thinking how I need to find a new game for my family that is on the level of Catan. You sir have my answer.
How old is your family? 7 Wonders is a great game that has many of the elements of Catan, plus a few more, but it is a little complicated.
I appreciate the inclusion of Anno 1800 in this video. My first hobby boardgame was also Catan, and what it introduced to me was that boardgames could be complex without sacrificing fun and not based purely on dice - that they could be more than not just Monopoly but also Pictionary and the like. I am far from a newcomer to this hobby, but it still persistently annoys me when 'gateway games' are always the simplest ones, when elegant simplicity is hardly lacking in non-hobby boardgames of the sort almost everyone is familiar with. If I had been introduced to the hobby with, say, Iwari, I wouldn't have gotten into it as much as I did.
A collab with Hbomberguy? This is a crossover I didn't know I wanted, and I'm glad it exists!
Shut Up and Sit Down was Hbomberguy's biggest influence in becoming a content creator. I was super-pleased to see him here.
Although my friends also brought Catan with them on our 2012 German holiday together, it was actually the random Thurn and Taxis game that was in our Airbnb (did that exist yet?) at Christmas in Nurenburg that was my first intro into modern board gaming. Its like German Ticket to ride.
I introduced my mum through Quadropolis, she really enjoys spatial puzzles like that, on to Azul and others.
Nice video! Now I will go back, and play some Catan.
After all of this I think Concordia has already fired Catan.
Efka, I have never seen you so nerdy as your explanation of Tuscany, and I love it!
Catan is still a game I enjoy playing every once in a while. I recently pre-orderd Anno 1800 due to your video. I can't wait to get it to the table, looks like I gotta wait til June or July though. I've also added Castles of Tuscany and Iwari to my list of games to consider purchasing.
This video led me to binge watch your reviews. Love everything about you two except that I'm not in your gaming group. :)
man this was a great reviewj thank you¡¡¡¡ youve got a new subscriber¡¡¡
Dude. You made this video at the right time. Not only that, you have a great sense of humor.
THANK YOU. Someone had to say it. Great recommendations too.
The cameo was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
having just gone to ikea, with two masks and almost before closing, to get a Kallax, I feel immensely called out by hbomberguy, and it's not even his channel. amazing! And now I want Anno 1800
I love your humour, but more importantly, I love your opinion on boardgames! Anno 1800 may well be my next purchase.
I agree, the base game of Cantan has been surpassed ... but I think you forget the expansion and the variety and nuances that they bring to the game.
It's far from being my favorite game, but I think there are many things to thank for it. For example, the number of people introduced to the world of the board games. Catan is what Harry Potter is to reading for a lot of people ... and that's VERY good.
I get where you're coming from, but asking someone who's never played a modern board game to spend extra money and read extra rules to improve a mediocre experience doesn't feel like a winning formula.
I have played a lot of Cattan and after a while the expansions just feel like window dressing. Starfarers seafarers and Game of Thrones for example just add new gimmicks to the same base game I have played hundreds of times. I think it is fare to continue to love and enjoy Cattan, but it is also good to acknowledge that some feel it is time to move on to new games.
@@NoPunIncluded Every game "burns" when you play it too much and for too long. What's old for you and me can be a good experience for others. "Mediocre" seems to me a very unfair word for a game with as much experience and trajectory as Catan. If we talk about mediocrity, time will tell if five years from now people remember those three games you recommend.
I respect your opinion and I share it. Catan was long overdue. But your assessment, like that of many other veteran players, seems too harsh and unfair for this game.
@@necogreendragon I've done so a long time ago, my friend. As I said above, it's not by far my favorite game. In my opinion, a game and its experience are built by 80% players. Sometimes you have to be generous and adaptable, that's all.
@@NoPunIncluded Agreed, I was introduced to Catan/Modern board gaming at University, and it was a a real blast, until it got a bit samey, and we never felt it was as fun with 5 or 6 players. It made for a number fo good evening with friends as a 3-4 player game thats not too hard to play.
However, I bought the "Exploreres and Pirates" expansion, which really changes the game into a pick up and deliver game running ontop of a tweaked version of Catan.
We enjoyed it so much we even ended up playing it as a six player game and enjoying it alot (it fixes alot of the downtime/dud turns with very simple rules and adds multiple ways to score points/expand/progress/interaxct with each other.
However, the value after buying both 5-6 player expansions, is unrecommendable to a newbie or evne a friends, we only did it as we already had the base game plus 5-6 player expansion.
My first "technically" modern board game was Cosmic Encounter, and I still love it, and it holds up really well with my gaming group! I played Catan once long ago, and it didn't stand out to me, I recently bought it, for a ridiculous deal, just to see how it plays, but I'm not expecting a knockout like some of the recent favorites of ours have been.
I love that Cosmic Encounters is almost 20 years older than Settlers. A classic that still holds up. My family loves it!
Cosmic seems to be the exception to the rule. A really old game that is so evergreen. If someone told me Cosmic came out in the last decade I would probably believe them.
Excellent review. Loved the jazz ~4:21
I have around ten stupid boxes of Catan on the Kallax next to me, gathering dust, and you are spot on, Efka. I'll still be playing Catan (the Star Trek version, my parents LOVE it) this xmas, but its age shows.
did NOT expect an hbomb cameo here
I took away from this video that catan is still my favorite board game still and Iwari is definitely worth a look.
Ah man ...just discovered that the English version of Anno 1800 will not release this year. Was looking forward to play that around Christmas
About the negotiation part of Catan: Chinatown is a better negotiation game!
forgot to "stock up" on non-soup analogies XD
Isaac Childres as Herbert the Skeleton - Hahahahaha - that got me!
This guy should not be a surgeon. But I appreciate his views, humor, and perspective and will certainly look into these games. Thanks!
Love the video. I'm going to be the other guy though, I love Catan. It's simplicity makes it easy to explain and teach. If you're not a great teacher there's always another person on the table whose played it. Catan has given me an opportunity to learn how my friends play board games and in turn helped me strategize against them as they do me. We still take it out often in our few years of this hobby. Easy to set up, quick for my group and high stakes with high rewards.
I've always preferred Carcassonne to Catan.
That ad break was so smoothly snuck in I laughed out loud, and then I genuinely signed up for Skillshare.
Thank you! Skillshare have been really good to us.
Personally, I feel as though the negotiating mechanic is what turns Catan from Monopoly++ to a proper hobby board game.
It opens up newcomers' minds to the possibilities of what could be, after that first taste.
I want to negotiate with my friends, broker deals, create friendships (or backstab each other afterwards). Otherwise, we'd get something as dry (for a casual player) as Chess.
That's what makes Catan Catan, for me at least. And that's something that was sadly not really touched upon in this video.
I agree. The negotiation is why I have played so much Catan. While I’m sure Anno is great in its own right, I think I would prefer the human negotiation found in Catan. My replacement for that mechanic has been cosmic encounter.
@@nolanolson7517 Cosmic Encounter is fantastic, but IMO not as a gateway game. Just explaining a normal turn with its 8 different phases can be difficult to grasp for a newcomer, and that's disregarding all the alien powers that break the game.
It can be a little intimidating.
I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are on other Catan versions and if there was an improvement on any of them. I say this as a person who has moved on from the original Catan but actually do enjoy Starfarers.
Thanks to this video i bought anno 1800 when it released here in the US
I was JUST reading today about how it's absurd to combine totem poles and tipis because one comes from agrarian tribes and the other comes from nomadic tribes. Iwari looks gorgeous, and there's nothing wrong with cultural theming, but it would be nice if game designers tried a bit harder to avoid stupid cultural potpourri.
Anyone else disappointed they didn't run over the box with a car in the end of the video?
I'm surprised it held up tbh. My copy would of evaporated it's so worn.
Yes, was definitely waiting for it and expecting it!
My family has developed a few house rules to speed the game up and take a little of the edge off.
We’ve tried different house rules and stopped using them, these are the ones that have stuck.
1) The thief doesn’t exist in the beginning.
The first two to four 7’s rolled (minimum of 2, but if it was a particularly painfully slow start we would determine in that moment if we wanted to add 1-2 extra rerolls).
We found that any time a 7 got rolled early on it ground the entire economy to a halt due to a shortage of that material.
Also, it almost always sparked a bitter swapping back and forth of the Thief between 2 people.
2) You can access a port by having a road connecting to it.
It actually never came up in our first 2 or 3 games, but eventually someone placed a settlement on a port and we had to decide if that blocked access or not (we weren’t sure how they worked at the time).
We settled on you being able to access a port with a road directly pointing at the port, but you could also build there if desired (though it wouldn’t block access).
3) You can only use development cards during your turn.
My sister supposedly knows someone who plays Catan “professionally” and she swears you can play them any time you want once the dice pass, but not only is that counter-intuitive to every board game I’ve ever played, it also causes absolute chaos the one time we decided to try it out, with people playing cards mid sentence of some players and it nearly ended the game then and there due to fighting.
Basically, if it isn’t your turn we don’t like you still doing things, as it distracts from the person who’s actually playing their turn (and we all kinda think she’s misinterpreting the rules anyway).
Obvious exception being Victory Point cards which are always valid, but we keep hidden/face down.
4) Whoever holds the dice leads the conversation.
To prevent people from getting overwhelmed with trade offers, questions, etc... we decided that whoever’s turn it is must ask for trades.
You can counter-offer, if you like, but they initiate it with whomever they want to talk to, and the trade is only final once both parties agree to swap cards (which is final, no take-backs).
I’d love to know what your house rules are (and who’s misinterpreting development cards) from anyone replying.
My re-entry to this hobby was Power Grid...
The tension at the end waiting to see if a car would wreck it
Brilliant video!
Not going to say goodbye to Catan, but I might try the new games! I did however think that there was one game missing from the list: 7 Wonders. A greta game, and it contains many elements of Cata, plus a few more. IMO it is a little richer than Catan, although I love both.
Settlers of catan was my gateway board game. Now I have like 50 board games in my collection. The ones we are playing at the moment is wingspan, maripousis, dinosaur island and others
Oh my god, the Anno series has a board game now? I LOVE Anno 2070 and Anno 1701!
Anno 1800 (the video game) is probably my favorite game of all time. So good. Highly recommend.
I like the gold house sitting on its roof instead of its base.
OMG didnt expect that cameo :D
I watched that game box in the street for 1 minute and expecting something to happen, knowing nothing would happen...
Settlers is great, and many of the current Euros lack the interaction and competitiveness that is such a huge draw to new players.
I've played a lot of games since I've started with this hobby on 2007 and, that's true... It has a level of interaction that i didnt see on other games.
If I were to pick a couple of games, from my experience, that I feel would replace Catan and be appropriate for newer players, I might pick Concordia and Chinatown. Concordia is similar sounding to Anno in that it's rules are light but it has a lot of depth that rewards familiarity. Its also about about grabbing territory and can be more or less tense depending on the map you pick. Chinatown, on the other hand, is pure negotiation. I don't pull it out frequently but it usually turns the night into a few hours of playful screaming at friends, depending on your group, this will be an upgrade to the screaming you find in Monopoly or Catan
I missed this reviews, I did not care for the rpg videos , thank you . Gracias from Mexico.
The main problem in my household is the competitiveness that ensues over Catan. Castles of Tuscany sounds like a great solution!
I agree with a lot of your points but A thing that I really enjoy about Catan is the negotiation for scarce resources between players. what game would you recommend that has that outlet?
Should have used some canned laughter after that soup line.
slow clap
I'm gonna say hello to these 3 games so much
btw, I think this is my one of my favourite video of yours, keep it up guys (and not because I hate catan or something, I didn't eve play it :v)
"Regular Person" indeed.
That was a surprising crossover
A very good video with rightful criticism on Catan; could you give more information on the music you use? Did Elaine choose them or perform or produce them? (Surely Not asking about the last bit.)
It's just stock music. Elaine's credit is for the song at the end. Efka does the video editing and normally chooses background music for the video.
Great and perfectly timed video. Awesome shirt with birds. And also are you in any way related to Ron Perlman?
Sure.
My (re)introduction to modern games was Sushi Go, Forbidden Island, and Carcassonne.
Also can we talk about how GORGEOUS the art for Iwari is?! DANG that's a sexy game.
Thank you for having the chutzpah to make this video!
Catan was not my first "real" board game - I didn't even play it for the first time until the late '90s - so I have no nostalgia for it.
For me, it sits next to Machi Koro in a spot just barely above Monopoly. Games which are VERY dependent upon die rolls with little mitigation available.
I don't hate games that use dice, I just don't like when I have little to no way to deal with poor rolling luck.
Cheers!
I wish I saw this before I bought Catan for a gift 4 days ago... Iwari looks awesome
Catan is still a great game, specially for newcomers. But for a "veteran", it might be old.
Nice review
Is there any more interaction in Anno? The trade interaction looked like you get resources randomly given to you like 7 Wonders. I suppose you could try to supply other people but I suspect you need to be focus'd on your own goal cards, so if you end up supplying somebody else it is fortunate.
Are there any other games that have the support level Catan has? People I've introduced it to, I can direct them to the app or website and there they can walkthrough the rules or practice. They've made it so easy to learn, which makes people more open to trying it.
What’s going on at 1:39 with your settlements mate?
I do rather rub my hands on a cheese gritter than play Monopoly. Well said.
@@pimentoloaf1509 Communist cheese gritter? If you mean Kolejka, that is not even close to be related to Monopoly. It had been just called "Communist Monopoly" by some newspapers, which have no idea about board games and could not find a better tag line.
I was playing board games, including war games, for years before Catan existed, since I was a kid in the 70s and saved my allowance for a few weeks to but those old Metagaming Microgames like Rivets, Olympica, and Invasion of the Air-Eaters among others, and we enjoyed Catan when it was new as a light game before jumping into heavier fare like Star Fleet Battles and later on, World in Flames.
It's obviously been surpassed in this day in age for games of this type, but I'm glad it exists as it helped our hobby. I'd not seek it out to play today but wouldn't say no to playing either.