I saw Genesis in their last tour, Phil Collins knew that his voice was not as good, but instead of having taped vocals to help, they hired backing vocals who sounded like Phil to fill in with the bits he was struggling with. It sounded very good, and I did not feel short changed.
Phil was so vulnerable and frail on his last solo tour and his tour with Genesis. Explaining he was not well but wanted to play anyway and both shows were very special to me because of that. It was a powerful final salute. Eagles two weeks ago on the other hand... My mate who went to the second show two days later rang me up afterwards and started ranting because of the backing tracks on all of them apart from Joe Walsch who sings like he talks.
I am a 70 year-old professional musician and vocalist. As I aged I lost about half an octave of easily obtainable vocal range…which is a lot. This required dropping the key of songs and reaching high notes using falsetto. Today, I do not have the ability to sing many songs with the quality necessary to produce a quality performance…so I have had to change my repertoire and move to songs I can sing properly. My point is, I always suspect vocalists of using tracks when they are over 70 and appear to be performing songs in the original key sounding like they did 40 years ago. Some may be able to still pull it off but I sure can’t and most of the other professional vocalists my age I know personally can’t either
Respect. I see a lot of older singers who do just this. I’ve never heard any complaints, everybody s happy to see and hear them. You and they are being real. That’s great! This total lip-synch act from a band known for vocals is outrageous. It’s so misleading. Henley fired people years ago who didn’t sound “like the record.” Now he’s doing this.
Thanks for your words, they're interesting. I'm curious about this subject, because I play only my own original songs, at my gigs. I generally function in the background, so no one is paying particular attention. As long as my music is pleasant, it adds to the environment and no one really cares what I'm playing (and I craft it carefully, so as to not have too much repetition, interesting key changes, and to be harmonically interesting.) When I sing, I use falsetto on the high notes, specifically to take the strain off of my voice (I commonly do gigs that are 3 or 4 hours in length.) I use my regular voice below the high notes. As an old guy, I believe that the use of falsetto is the only reason that I can sing my songs in their orginal keys. Singers that have popularized the sound of falsetto include Neil Young, Frankie Valli, and Barry Gibb. The problem with singing falsetto, for a lot of rock singers is that the style of the songs, often times, don't lend themselves well, to softer singing. Falsetto is inherintly a softer sound of vocal. Taking a high power rock tune, and singing the vocal part in a falsetto voice, might make the song lose a lot of its mojo. What is a rock star to do, if he can't deliver a song, and use falsetto to help with the high parts. What is he to do if loweing the key didn't work, and the audeince just won't accept a softer falsetto voice........ well, there always miming. Now, I'm going to propose something here that isn't common: It's the audience's fault. What you say ? !! The audience is paying to see something that is unrealistic. What if I told a 70 year old, that he has to squeeze into his swimsuit that he wore when he was 20. That would be unrealistic. He is not 20. His body has changed dimensions. The same thing applies to a voice, lots of times. Audiences asking a 75 year old to squeeze into his 20 year old voice, is unrealistic, just as it would be with a swim suit. To the audiences, I say: Get real. If your performer has aged 50 years, like his swimsuit, he's not going to fit into his vocals the same as it used to be, either. So, you either accept the fact that your hero isn't going to sound the same, or you accept that he's miming, or you don't go to shows expecting something that can't be delivered. At least McCartney goes out on the road and sounds crappy, some of the time, but it's really him. He's not miming. I'd say to the audience: Get real. This isn't 1974. Your heroes are not going to sound like 1974. Either accept their limitations, accept them miming, or don't go to the shows. It's that simple.
@@KenTeel Vocalists, like surgeons, must realize that they eventually lose their ability to perform like they once did because their vocal cords, like the surgeon’s fingers, have aged to the point where they no longer function well enough. At that point, the vocalist has to make a choice to retire, keep going but perform at a lower level if his/her fans allow it, change his/her repertoire to one not as challenging that he/she is capable of singing well, or, fake the performance and realize that he/she has become an actor, not a vocalist. I think many of us know a vocalist that continued to attempt performing songs that they no longer can perform well…I have always found that pitiful and cringe for the performer as he/she tries to hit the “high notes” and fails in front of their audience. For superstars, like McCartney, their super loyal fans will accept a diminished performance; that is why he is still performing at large venues even though his voice is nothing like it once was. So, superstars with huge loyal fan bases often choose to keep going until even their most loyal fans stop accepting a bad performance (that is sad…they could have gone out while still at the top instead of a has been). Then there are once high-end performers who once had lots of fans but not to the level of someone like McCartney. These are the performers that must put on a performance similar to their performances when they were in their prime (think come-back tours). These performers are the ones most likely to resort to miming. Then there are the rest of us who were never a big name act who spent a lifetime performing with various bands live and serving as background session recording singers. We really have no choice but to change our repertoire and retire when changing our repertoire is no longer enough. I always admired Les Paul. As he aged he lost more and more of his dexterity and guitar playing became less and less proficient. He faced that fact by starting to being more guest guitarists on stage with him to assist in putting on a great show. He never tried to hide the fact that his own abilities were diminishing, he made the audience aware that his fingers were failing him. The audience loved him for it and he always put in a great show right up to the week he died at near 100 years old! I am rapidly losing my singing voice and my fingers are getting worse by the day, soon I will just perform for my grand kids and great grand kids and leave the gigging and studio work to the younger, more capable performers. I wish you the best and hope you have many more years of quality performing ahead of you. Have a great day!
@@thepepperlanders You are so fortunate to still have your entire vocal range. As you know, most singers start losing range in their sixties and by the 70s have not only lost range, but some timber as well as control. The old instrument, the vocal cords, starts to show wear, but it’s also caused by wear on the diaphragm and lungs as well. I hope you are one of those vocalists that keep going well into your 80s. Have a great day, and happy music making!
Phil Collins/Genesis have been dropping keys for years. Absolutely isn't a problem, and just shows what a genuine artist has to go through to adjust a voice as you get older.
@@onomatopoeidiaMcCartney drops the key considerably. It's really obvious, I'm surprised you haven't noticed. And he's really sounding his age now. His voice is very shaky and unsteady.
Bahaha 🤣 it’s ironically become since decades. I got told off in 2002 for handing a singer a mic that was turned on and they went out on stage and sounded like a tone deaf munchkin. I thought I was doing the right job as an engineer! Apparently not.
Because the price is so high and crowded I don’t go to big shows anymore! I like being able to go to a club and hear a band and see the players play. I don’t like fake stuff!
Some bands that were pretty big back in the day were still touring in the 90s at small venues. I saw Rick Deringer, Guess Who, Firefall, April Wine, Stephen Stills, in small 300 seat clubs. Foreigner, Kansas and Blue Oster cult in 500 seat venues. These are the best shows.
@@bigboxerable yeah and that comment has 23 likes, so 24 people that somehow took from this video that he did not credit Fil? How? He goes out of his way to do just that...
Close to a decade ago, Henley was already doing “Desperado” transposed down into an easier key. This is not unusual for singers as they age, and completely acceptable. However, in 2024 the Eagles are doing Desperado back in its original key, night after night, for months on end. If that doesn’t smell fishy to you, it should. Edit: just watched more of your video, and realised you make exactly the same point. Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed this.
My mom paid 800 bucks for tickets in Tulsa. Video recording wasn't allowed, event staff were extremely rude and bullied people just for having phones out, getting up to use the restroom or get a drink, threatened to throw out a woman next to us for recording but she didn't have her phone out, people in front of our row mates standing up and dancing when no one else behind them was and cussing out anyone who protested because they were being blocked and elbowed. Joe Walsh was the best part of that show. I've sworn off stadium concerts for good.
Fil is great. I’ve been a subscriber for ages. I can’t speak highly enough of his vids. I especially enjoy it when he analyses one of my favourites like Patsy Cline, Bobby Hatfield or Elvis.
I’ve seen them twice; at the O2 in 2009 and at Wembley in 2019. At the Wembley gig we couldn’t have been seated further from the stage, so were relying on the video screens. For most of the Don Henley sung tracks, the screens went off. They were on for all the other songs. Make of that what you will! Hope you can still enjoy the gig 👍🏻
@@clannad99germany70 The purpose of music videos is to serve as a commercial. That's why TV shows that show music videos don't pay the artists. They're broadcasting their commercials free of charge.
I believe that all artists should disclose if they are using pre-recorded vocal / instrumental tracks. Regardless of ticket prices the audience deserves to know what they’ll be hearing!
Gene Simmons was very outspoken on this topic and said the same as you a number of times.... right up until his bandmate Paul Stanley starting miming for their farewell tour. 🤣
Don Felder shares writing credit on the song with another bandmate, he didn’t write the song by himself. Don Felder is an incredibly talented guitarist, one the best and I admire his personal integrity. There are/were other Eagles members that don’t have the same integrity and focus on money instead of honest artistic representation.
I recently saw Don Felder at a 5 to 700 person venue. I stood 10 feet from him while he played his guitars and saying the Eagles songs. It was truly outstanding. His band mates were beyond reproach. Soooooo good.
@pauline7425 👍👍👍 I bet you got your money's worth ... ( That's if you paid anything at all, that is) Good luck to you - I'll confess to being full-blown jealous...
@@johnnydev9318 I think I paid maybe around $100. I can’t remember who else was performing but I know they were all world class musicians. He was on another level.
And now, the whole world hates him. Good. Hope he's happy he ruined The Eagles Music. Can't stand it now, turn it off the second it comes on. Have for years. If I want to hear children whining, I have a few already
If you mime at a concert, it should be explicitly stated so you have a choice as whether to purchase a ticket or not. Just like you can read the ingredients on food produce.
Had been a lifelong fan of the Eagles and have seen them 3 times. After reading Don Felder's Heaven and Hell, I stopped buying their albums and no longer buy over priced tickets for their concerts.
@@DRourkI've read it too, great book. Henley comes off as a huge jerk, Glenn Frey was only marginally better. Let's put it this way, they only cared about money, and treated Bernie Leadon and Randy Meisner badly. Felder was also shafted. He had to sign a NDA so he can't talk about the settlement he got from the Eagles, but I reckon he was paid off millions, after all, he wrote most of the music for Hotel California!
Books from people who are parties to non-disclosure agreements are universal garbage. They can't say shit about the only stuff people are actually interested in.
"Their fans?" Half of the people in that arena probably stole money from The Eagles by downloading or streaming their music, you think they care about their "fans"? EAGLES FANS? Oh this is even funnier: "Eagles' intergrity"!!! When did the Eagles EVER have any integrity? What fans? A bunch of geriatrics and their kids? If you pay for Geriatric Rock, you get what you deserve. £300? What jackass pays £30 much less £300 to see an 80 year old rock star?
Robert Plant did Stairway a month or two ago and couldn't manage it like he used to. But to his credit he did his best with what he had. Then there's McCartney, does it in the same key and it sounds a bit strained. So it stands to reason that those who sound perfect must be having some help.
@@deborahohme5578 Bob has only ever got the right note by accident. Thousands use Autotune and pitch correction. So go ahead, and make millions - loads of artistes haven’t allowed a small thing like a complete lack of talent to stand in their way!
Ian said he didn't mind, thought it was different enough with the different lyrics but yeah, I was shocked when I heard it for the first time recently, how close HC is to it. I played it to a friend who's a big Eagles fan, and he said "blantant rip off of HC!" until I told him the date of the JT song. He was also shocked. Ian Anderson said both songs shared a very common chord progression, and didn't think it was worthy of a copyright case/lawsuit.
I heard Dolly at Glasto (I was stuck in traffic!). She sang her songs. Then she improvised one about the people stuck in the mud. Her voice was completely different! I was watching her on the BBC2 60 Songs today, where they showed her doing Nine To Five at Glasto, and several times her mouth didn’t match the words.
@@iamtjwalker She did a duo with Richie Sambora (lay your hands on me) that day as well, think that was live, well it was, because she completely butchered it. Changed the words and everything.
I have subscribed because of your brilliant song. However, when it comes to Joe Walsh, I can forgive him somewhat because he came back to singing after a big stroke that, for a while took his voice completely. I used to run a stroke club in Oldbury in the black country UK. I know how these people sometimes never get back to how they were. It's a long hard road that is not always possible. His stuff Live From Daryl's House is brilliant considering. Anyway your song is pure genius. I loved it.
No, you did a great Appraisal. If you don't have the information how could you know? It was not a critical comment. Just information that's all. Great song, that's why I like it.
I’m saw them back at in 2015. And I said to my wife the vocals were to good to be true, especially with their advancing years. It didn’t sound live at all to me.
I'll be honest when we saw them in Florida and around 2004 I was skeptical at how good it sounded. I'm a bit of an audio file nerd and have their albums on high resolution formats. Their concerts sounded like a CD. Maybe they were that good then?
@@michaelkeudel8770 They've been relying on pre-recorded vocals to some degree since the Long Road Out of Eden Tour in 2008. Check out recordings of the track "Waiting in the Weeds" from that era, if you can find any.
Say them in that same era. MacManon Stadium in Calgary. Jesse Winchester opened. Seems to me the tickets were $18. What a show. Don't think there was any miming.
When I saw them it was actually‘77…my bad. Jimmy Buffet was the opening act. The encore was Buffet & Eagles joining Walsh in an awesome version of Rocky Mountain Way… Oklahoma City Ok
I can beat that. I saw them about 1971-72 for $6. They only had their first hit then. And, they weren't the headliner, they were the warm-up band for Yes, who had just released (and they played) their Close to the Edge album. I was probably 6 rows back, center stage. Fun Fact, since we're talking about Eagles and now Yes: I saw Jon Anderson last year and he still sang great. I know it was live because at one point he couldn't hit a few notes and he simply stopped singing and laughed about it. But overall still a very good performance.
You should definitely switch your attention (and don't do any Eagles-like songs) to somebody who does deserve it: Jon Anderson, incredible voice at 70+ years old and on top of that he shows youngsters (Paul Green Rock Academy) how to appreciate 70's rock and play it to keep it alive. Jon deserves a monument just for that!
I won't go to stadium shows anymore. Coachella? You are out of your mind lol. Club gigs only. Tickets, parking, concessions are just simply ridiculous. There are so many bands that are either lip syncing all together or piping in additional backing tracks to cover up the gaps. Sorry, that is not live music. That's karaoke.
Well done TJ, the DON has spies everywhere, you would think he is down to his last dollar, I always thought that people doing your songs is a great form of flattery, but the DON takes it as a personal attack for some reason, if it wasn't for Linda Ronstadt giving him and Frey a break they may never had of come to what they had became, he is strange.
I noticed this too with his live performances. Many praise Freddie Mercury, but Freddie was all too aware of his limitations and at times couldn't hit the high notes, and like Bowie, would rearrange the song into something different and still sound great.
I saw Jackson Browne a couple of years ago in concert, and it was similar with him. He's lowered the keys of some songs and definitely sounds different singing then, but I really enjoyed it! I almost liked it better, the texture and expression of age is nothing to be ashamed of! It can be an asset!
Excellent! GENIUS! Just discovered you, and I'm an instant fan and new subscriber. I love the song! And if Don Henley has any leftover artist in him, he'll love and appreciate your song, too!
Absolutely love your Eagles song names tune. 😂😂 But, ngl, I am so pissed at all the proof I’ve seen this week on Don miming his vocals. I’m a huge Eagles fan and would never pay for that BS! Hats off to Wings of Pegasus for breaking it down for us. Hope he doesn’t get sued by lawsuit obsessed Don 😉
Hi TJ - I just wanted to drop you a note. It takes a special kind of person to mention another TH-cam channel (and competitor) and share what they have knowledge of. This is my first time watching your channel, but I was interested in what you had to say regarding Fil (Wings of Pegasus). I've been a sub of his channel for years and I happen to think he is very honest and straight-forward with proof he shares to back him up. You're facing a really unique situation. If you really love The Eagles and want to see them in person - "live" - for the experience - GO! You know what they sounded like (pre-1998...after that almost all artists/bands began using pitch control or auto-tune...to some degree, especially in the studio) so take those vocals/memories with you when you go and forget that some (maybe a lot) of the vocals are being mimed!! Enjoy the experience - while you have the chance! I know if I were in your shoes, I'd go. I'm not a huge Eagles fan, but there are some artists/bands that I never saw and regret that I didn't. Keep the concert in mind when you get back home (or listen in the car) and remember what you experienced. Hopefully, 🤞🏻you'll have a great time!
I think you're right......I wish I'd seen Fil's video after I'd been as I probably wouldn't have noticed 😀 ps: really enjoying his channel now I've found it!
@@iamtjwalker I'm glad you like his channel, JT. He's a straight shooter and will not lead you wrong. I do hope you'll go to the concert, enjoy yourself and "Take it to the Limit!"
Guy I went to high school with is the drummer for the Doobie Brothers, Ed Toth. I’ll ask him to give me the lowdown after the show on Mr. Henley’s miming.
massive appreciation for your song at the end! What does his heartbreaking, I grew up such an Eagles fan and it took a lot to wean me away. Don has really outdone himself. your song is fantastic!😂
I was briefly involved with an Eagles tribute band . The leader had recorded all the vocals AND some instruments. Our instructions were to “sing if you want, but if you hear yourself coming out of the PA, step back from the mic”. i.e., “lip sync “. Not for me. Faking it seems to be part of the Eagles subculture, even at the lowly tribute band level. And of course, if that tribute band does start touring a bit, Henley’s lawyers will sue the hell out of the band and all its members (there’s plenty more about that in other YT vids. ) That DH is something else. Not for me.
They gave you a copyright strike for re-creating one of their guitar solos, so people could actually learn their songs... and then pay them royalities for using them live? How idiotic!!!!
I am glad I got to see them play for 6 hours for only $12 at Miami Stadium back in 1977. It was one of my favorite concerts ever. We drove 2 1/2 hours to see them.
They had sound problems years ago in Des Moines. They were booed off the stage. The crowd hadn’t putting up with anything but hard rock n roll. Taj Mahal played that nite too I recall. Way too expensive these days..
Yeah, of course, THAT'S when you go see The Eagles. In 1977. Not in 2024! What the hell do these idiots expect? Anyone who pays more than £30 much less £300 to see ANY Geriatric Rock is an imbecile for whom I have absolutely no sympathy for. I hope The Eagles are laughing all the way to the bank.
Saw Purple live in 2006. Gillan didn’t attempt the high notes on Child in Time. He still did the song but he did the high note parts in his normal voice.
See the last Genesis tour, Phil Collins did something, struggeling in every moment, but he mostily failed, impossible to sing as it was before. Realities.
Nesmith and Dolenz came out here to Christchurch NZ around 2020, but they performed as "The Mike & Mickey Show" rather than trying to pretend they were The Monkees. It's ironic that a band that was derided for years as fake now has far more musical integrity than a lot of other bigger name artists.
On the positive side - you will LOVE the Doobie Brothers (who actually PERFORM their music and vocals). I saw them a couple of years ago with Michael McDonald - one of the best concerts, musically, that I have ever been to. Band is super tight and Michael McDonald is a LEGEND!!
TJ first time seeing your channel, and I'm a fan. I share your love of music, and enjoy your analysis, and your English accent is awesome man. This whole Tracks thing has really blown up. There has always been backing tracks used in live concerts. I mean ACDC in Hells Bells, played live w track of the steeple church bell, Van Halen keyboard fills on Jump, Love comes Walkin In, and others, that after the 5150 that Eddie actually played keyboards live, they were tracks on live shows after that tour, Ed was back on the guitar. Def Leppard recently now come under fire for using tracks, which is no secret, and Rick Savage has even demonstrated in many behind the scenes interviews, demonstrated the pedals he uses on certain songs for the background intros to a few songs, and the pedals he plays for the short uses, but all the drums, guitars, and amazing vocals are live. What's happening now though I the bands like Motley Crue, being outted for the guitar, bass, drums, and Vince Neal's vocals, ALL TRACKS, talk about Miming, thats why fans are pissed, and how Motley Crue keeps latching on to the coat tails first w Def Leppard, and coming up soon w Guns n Rose's, who wants to pay 300.00 400.00 to come out and watch a bunch of overweight has been lypsyncing and playing air guitar
Have to disagree about Rod Stewart. If you compare live now to 70's/80's. He's dropped the key at least 4 semitones in his higher register songs. Baby Jane for example is Dm but now Bbm.
On a related note, did you see Paul McCartney's embarrassing effort to sing Let It Be at the Jimmy Buffet tribute. It was heartbreaking to watch. Please, loved you guys in the day but please recognize when the time has come to just let it be.
Jesus, the guy is 81 years old. He was asked to perform at a tribute show. The last show he performed was 6 months prior. Who the hell can do anything like they used to, at 81? Vocals are tough at that age. His piano playing was perfect
@@malinwj1167 I appreciate he may have wished to appear as a tribute to Buffet, but a few sentences may have been a better choice. The eagles also need to stop. Time catches up with us all.
Hi! I watched Fils' vlog about Don Henley miming also. I had been looking to book tickets to see Eagles in Manchester with at that time Steely Dan as support which would have been perfect. Anyway as we know they have been replaced by The Doobies which I would have been well pleased with. After seeing the prices of any decent seats £400 up I decided it was too expensive, nearly a 1000 for 2 tkts plus they could possibly be miming??? That killed it for me. Hope someone videos it the truth might come out??
Regarding miming: How does a song start in regard to tempo to ensure that the vocal is in time. I assume there must some form of click track or other cue to ensure everything is in time. I ask because most bands are unable to keep perfect metronomic time etc. Anyone any ideas.
I saw The Doobie Brothers in concert a couple years ago and I swear the vocals just sounded TOO good to be all live. Simmons even said he had the worst case of laryngitis he'd ever had, but you couldn't tell.
I did a gig with severe laryngitis could not let the venue down, couldn't hit a single note, struggled through two hours singing lead and playing bass. After the show a kid came up to me and said I had an amazing blues voice.....
Great video. Glad I found your channel. Don’t worry about a bit of “production”-this lineup isn’t really Eagles! Without Frey, Felder, Meisner and Leadon it’s like the proverbial ancient axe that’s had a replacement head and a couple of replacement handles.
It's just very very hard to comprehend somebody like Joe Walsh or Vince Gill and yet a concert went on it's just hard to believe that Joe Walsh and Vince Gill knew this was happening
They are paid employees nothing more. Don Henley and Frey’s widow own all shares of the band and its name it’s why Felder quit. Frey and Henley bought everyone out and made them hired touring musicians.
I played support for pop will eat itself in the early nineties. I was shocked to find that there was an 8 track tape deck behind the curtain. The keyboard player had masking tape on the kb, labelling the sounds, the whole band including the guitarist was miming. I was very tempted to pull the power on the tape deck. The only saving grace was that Adrian Sherwood was mixing. This has been going on for a very long time. Enjoyed your video and the song was superb.
Ah, you saw the Wings of Pegasus video too? Love their music, can't stand Henley. I wouldn't pay that much for a concert, I'd rather pay to see genuine, live music like what you bring to the venues. Yup, I see you did watch his video lol. Don't get a refund, if it's sold out, sell it for 4 times the price :)
Been trying to get a refund for 2 weeks we spent 700.00 and with the hotel it's near on 1000 ticket master do not want to know,so we are in a pickle the eagles are a disgrace when you have people like Jon bon jovi thinking of giving up completely because of voice problems and not wanting to taint his legacy speaks volumes for the man
Well until you consider that JBJ just equally screwed everyone with a new album that is done majority with AI programmed vocals selling it as legitimate and also as the cherry on top is selling copies that are "signed" but the signature has been proven to be a machine signed signature because they all are the same or have just a few variations to try to not get caught. He's a disgrace too
This quote from James McBride seems apt: “Listen, don't meet your heroes. If you meet your heroes, you're always going to be disappointed.” Eagles are one of my top 3 favourite bands and I am happy to have the Farewell Tour (ahem!) recorded at Melbourne DVD from 2005 to remember them by. A perfect performance and everything after is a re-hash and cannot be equalled.
I would be interested to see if a refund is even possible. The irony of all this. Didn't Randy Meisner get fired because he couldn't or didn't want to sing the high notes in "Take it to the Limit???" Further irony would be if Henley and his legal team ended up with a class action suit for defrauding thousands of concert goers. P.S. I love your song. Take it to the limit indeed.
Your paying to SEE The Eagles, there's no contract other than for them to show up and stand onstage. If someone is that idiotic to pay £300 to see The Eagles, or any Geriatric Rock band, they get what they paid for. He SAW The Eagles. That's what we say right? "I saw the band at the club last night". I'm sure they were playing their guitars, so there you go, they played, they performed. No one got defrauded; you're paying to clap at people who have given you your life's music, not for them to pretend they're still 26 years old. If you're too stupid to know you're not seeing musicians in their prime, whose fault is that? As soon as a band starts adding back up singers and extra keyboardists and percussionists and stuff like that - which all these bands have been doing since the 80s - you're already not getting the real article, what alternative reality have you been living in?
@@goodshipharmony Angry? No, doofus, I'm pissing my pants with laughter! The complete opposite! You might want to focus on content rather than how people "sound" to you. And PS: Just because you're steeped in mediocrity doesn't mean I have to be. A person who pays money to go see "rockers" in their 70s and 80s, and then expects them to sound like the record, or even do a good show, are the most laughable pathetic half-wits to ever draw breath. Any questions, dopey?
I recall that Randy was overwhelmed by the attention of doing that song that made him so popular, also I think there was bullying involved? I hope Randy was happier outside of Eagles, his solo hit "Never Been in Love" is my favourite beyond anything the Eagles did or the solo songs of other members.
Years ago, I read that Don Henley said he would rather have needles poked into his eyes than sing Desperado again. I guess he found a way. I've seen the Eagles once, Vince Gill twice, and Michael McDonald once. I think you should go to the concert, even knowing what you know. You might regret it if you don't. Have a blast and I can't wait to hear all about it. And I loved your song!! That was GENIUS!!
My question would be were the two recordings done by the same person and same phone? To me , those shouldn't match either doe to distance to speakers and ambience like you mentioned.
Typically, the front of house engineer will have two channels for the lead vocalist - one that's doing the pre-recorded track, and one that's their actual mic. When they are "singing", they mute the mic and open the track. When they talk in between songs, they unmute the mic and mute the track. The OBVIOUS temptation on a long tour is the fact that it doesn't stop at just miming vocals ... as they know the music so well having played it for years, then they'll ALL be able to mime to a COMPLETE backing track
Thank you for your explanation . I have zero musical knowledge of how things work and wondered. I saw the eagles with Jimmy buffet in the hotel California tour. Joe Walsh burned the house down with Rocky Mt way. The encore was desperado. We were 8th row floor. I loved John Denver, and saw him several times. During the middle of one song he broke a guitar string, said whoa, put in the new string, no roadies, tuned the guitar and ... let's try this again. Alabama best concert band ever. Cheers, Patricia
I wouldn't blame the Eagles, but you'd be right to lament the world. Tracks is accepted now (I guess) but IMHO it invalidates the whole point of seeing a band live - removes the possible tension of 'bum notes' but completely removes any sense of that magic moment when music happens. Very few people can do this seamlessly (GrahamNash!!!) but did you hear Joni Mitchell not quite able to reproduce her early work at the gig last year? It was breathtaking.
Don Henley did the same Desperado in 2024, he did on 2023. When viewed on a voice analyzer, two vocals cannot overlap, exactly, from two different performances. Focal patterns are like fingerprints. Whatever you folks want to think, Desperado by Henley was lip synced in 2024 from 2023. Is Don Henley doing his job? Is that fraud?
I have seen Phil's video and it was very interesting. Could the similarity in vocals from different nights be explained by Henley having a vocal from one night playing in his ear buds so he can match it that way?
I quit going to concerts years ago because I could tell that most of the acts were performing to recorded music and it was not live. I am not paying big bucks to see recordings. I can play my tapes and CDs, etc at home.
I'm going too. I'm 33 and have never seen the Eagles live, so as a huge fan of them I was extremely excited to get a ticket for this, despite it costing me £200. 'Was' being the key word. I'm not so sure I'll enjoy it now having seen the videos on TH-cam exposing the miming. Seeing the Doobie Brothers will be cool, and the bits of the Eagles set that aren't mimed (if there are any), but to not hear Don singing Desperado, or Hotel California, is a huge blow. I'm travelling a much shorter distance than you and have paid less, so I really feel for you. I am absolutely gutted.
@@fluthyhehim66 I went on Friday and the gig was amazing. Assumed he was still lip-syncing for some tunes, but he wasn't doing it for absolutely all of his vocals, I don't think.
Enjoyed that, thanks. Amused by your irritation at having to travel so far north 😮 The journey many of us have had to do in reverse so many times, because artists only played London! You can do it ‘The Long Run’ 😅 I hope you will post a review.
Ha yes....I guess I am being a bit of a southerner there! I always thought bands would do some gigs in the south and some in the north.....I can imagine it's annoying if they only do London. I live near Brighton so I have to go "up north" for almost everything.....but Manchester takes a lot longer than London!
Thinking about this more, it's quite easy to descend into a rant but I'll try not to! I remember some years ago listening to Kenny Rogers talking about recording with Henley; "He warms up for two hours!!" was the stand-out from that and in a way, I wasn't surprised. Don's vocal range and accuracy was second to none. I later saw Henley in Manchester on the Cass County tour and the 'no filming' thing was very emphatic there - something Henley qualified later during the show saying; "Nobody wants to be 'in the moment' any more..." So here we are a few years later, miming to a three-year-old vocal track. How 'in the moment' is that exactly??!! If you can't do it any more, don't do it at all. I've seen a number of 'legends' in recent years and half of those shows have been garbage. The Pension Top-up Tour!! Part of the problem might be that so many fans are more than happy to settle for less, going into ecstatic 'puppy' mode because they're seeing their idols, regardless of how poor the performance is. I've read reviews of shows I've been to which have left me wondering if I was really there! As for using age as an excuse, three words; 'Michael Philip Jagger'...!!!
I love Don Henley’s solo stuff and I never knew he did a Cass County tour in the UK. Gutted to have missed that. I saw the Eagles on the History of the Eagles tour quite a few years back and said I wouldn’t go again as Henley really struggled with the high notes all night - not his fault, but it just wasn’t the same as previous Eagles tours I’d been to. A good friend of mine saw them a few years later and said the vocals were perfect, so I assumed the concert I saw had been an off night. Got tickets to see them in Manchester in 2 weeks time and now I’m wondering if Henley really does mime and that’s why his vocals improved so much. I think you can use Autotune live. Could it be that’s what they are doing? Anyway, I am going with someone who has never seen them before and who has wanted to see them for years, so whatever happens, I’ll enjoy him enjoying it.
@@stuartroberts7904 Yes you can use Autotune live, but there is no electronic gizmo that will perfectly align your phrasing and timing, other than a recording.
My brother saw the Eagles playing live somewhere in America in the 1980’s and he said that there was no point in seeing them play live because it sounded exactly like the record. Cheaper to stay home and listen. The best live performance that I ever saw was Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers playing in a small venue in Bristol in the late 1980’s. He never gives the same performance twice, always changing things around, sometimes even calling a new chord change to his band halfway through a song! That is playing live to that particular audience on that particular night and it was just for us.
the nail in the coffin for this being true was when one line had a drop out in the recording, the second recording would perfectly fill in the gap from the missing line.
Hell yes. Get your money back as the Eagles are now officially dead. Fil busted their asses wide open, and I hope he causes them to lose millions. Don't give ANYBODY money to be fake. Henley's a prick to boot. Let him go broke.
@@Larrymh07 Fil, Wings of Pegasus a TH-cam chanel that analyses songs and he discovered that the exact same audio appeared in a lot of concerts apparently.
I wouldn't go if it was me. In fact I've given up seeing any big artists just because the cost have started to get really silly, especially when there are loads of local/cover bands you can see at a fraction of the price without travelling and who are genuinely playing/singing. This "miming" issue just puts another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.
Daltry got caught out at Glastonbury. During Won’t Get Fooled Again, he was busy complaining about the monitoring and ripping his in-ears out when the famous scream came in and he missed it. Seems even the greats need a little help
Considering Daltrey’s age and the part that he’s doing, I would give him a pass. Henley is a vindictive, humorless anal wart that has nothing but extreme contempt for the fans.
Your singing, playing, and composing are very impressive, TJ, especially your ability to adopt a convincing Southwestern U.S. twang when singing. I'm from the Mid Atlantic East Coast and I couldn't do that as well.
The Eagles are my all time favourite band, love all the songs and have seen them perform live just the once….I was so excited to see they were coming to Manchester but when I saw the price of the tickets I was astounded…….this is more than likely the last time their U.K. fans will get the chance to see them, it’s utter greed. Dare I say…..I go to see the tribute band (Illegal Eagles) whenever I can, they sound amazing and put on a great show.
ive seen the eagles, 2007 i think, brilliant!! can no longer afford their prices, seen the illegal eagles and i agree.....illegal...cheaper..but...brilliant!!!
@@ChrisOsborne-pr1iy there are a lot of tribute bands about who are as good as the originals……Rumours of Fleetwood Mac are another great tribute band and they are endorsed by Mick Fleetwood himself.
Nice guitar phrasing at the end. Regarding The Eagles they have always been perfectionists, and they've often "cheated" to get there. That doesn't mean they weren't amazing performers. Two things can be true at once. But for instance even on the records, just the phrase "City girl seems to find out early" on New Kid In Town consist of 5 different vocal takes sliced together, with one just being a consonant, another take being a single word etc. Bill Szymczyk revealed that. That was the only way they could get that level of perfection. Don Felder revealed in his book "Heaven and Hell" that one of the most perfect live performances ever released "Hell Freezes Over" contained so many overdubs that it was a basically an illusion. And ever since 1999 they have been using pitch correction on everything they have released, starting with the Millenium Concert and heavily on "Long Road Out Of Eden", "After Hours" and "Cass County". And STILL, they were amazing performers in their prime, just not as amazing as they wanted the product to be. If you listen to the raw soundboards from "The Hell Freezes Over" tour, they are terrific performances, sounding more like a record than 90 % of the bands out there. But NOT as perfect as the officially released stuff. They set unnaturally high bars for themselves.
That is all true..... I always though the records are as close to perfection as I've heard. And I'm sure in their peak the live performances were as good as live performances could get......they are great singers and musicians. They have set the bar high!
I subscribed to this video and liked it more for your song, singing Eagles' titles, than the rest of the video which has me wondering if I have ever experienced a truly live and spontaneous concert? I think though that at least BB King and Jeff Healey were trustworthy and probably Loverboy and Rik Emmett and probably all the others including Eric Clapton? I saw Don Henley live, Susanna Hoffs opening for him...
Just seen The Eagles at the Coop Arena in Manchester. It was a cleverly engineered salad of miming, close ups of some excellent guitar riffs and help from the new young singer designed to make a bunch of 75 year-olds sound like 20 year-olds. The arena was horrible, beers were £9 for a pint or £16 for two, two small cans of Eurofizz and a pie and a hot dog £31. We got ripped off at every turn.
Did you have to pay the £25 for parking for a few hours also! It's only about money now, get as much as they can, got nothing to do with shows for the fans.
bruce dickinson doesnt lip sync as he forgot the words to stranger in a strange land at nottingham last year and sang the chorus again , he got daggers from the rest of the band
Paul Rodgers (Bad Company) mixed up the words of Burning Sky yet was fine with it to even include it on the live album. And . yes, he still sounded good.
If it hasn’t already happened, I would expect that legal disclaimers will now be included with ticket purchases that vocal or instrumental tracks may be used during performances. Basically to prevent any lawsuits against the artists.
As I posted above, when a vocalist mimes, it will be to a backing track. It would be far easier to have the WHOLE band miming to a complete track, which means they can play (something they'll know inside out having played it for years) KNOWING that any mistake (or bum note) they play won't be heard. They can just coast along, knowing that at an Arena gig the audience will believe the illusion because what they can see and hear will be slightly delayed (light travelling faster than sound etc) so they will factor that in and enjoy the experience thinking it's 'real' ...
@@prd004.2 If you are using a click this wouldn't be much of a problem though, you could still play your instruments. I have played live many many times with other musicians using a click. In certain circumstances it is a really useful tool.
I've seen the Eagles three times, the last time about dozen years ago when they opened a capella with Seven Bridges Road. I've always been suspicious of their perfection in concert. There comes a time when singers should just 'fess up and either stick to shower singing or do an age-appropriate version. I love the Eagles, but Don Henley isn't on my list of people I'd want to have a beer with.
Its kind of ironic. Don takes down fan covers because he feels its cheating him even though he would get revenue from it, but then cheats the fans miming and by charging extortionate prices to see the Eagles Live! Live means singing live to most people. Yes, we are seeing them in the flesh, but its no more than a top of the pops production if they are just going to mime. I have no problem with singers dropping down songs so in their older age they can still sing them. In fact i would prefer that to miming. This brings me to the whole pitch correction thing. Its understandable to use it in the studio. An artist has been flogging his voice through an album of songs and maybe he just didnt make it on the odd lyric so a word here and there just needed a tweak. But, now we have live pitch correction where artists use it live all the way through the song or they mime. This is because the industry has created a great competetive monster. One group sounds 100% perfect, so in competition they all have to sound that good. Result is, when anyone hears someone singing live and maybe a bit pitchy here and there, weve all been brainwashed into being judgemental. The fact is, hitting a note pitchy or flat now and again, is part of true singing. I personally like to hear it worts and all. It shows the artist is putting his soul into it rather than sitting back and letting a machine do it for them. I think by the Eagles miming and not disclosing this, i would feel somewhat cheated at the price they are asking. On a side note, Walsh is forced under Dons contract to mime, but sings live on his independant non Eagle performances, or so ive heard. As for your cover of Hotel California TJ. Don Felder wrote it, so not sure how Don Henley gets off taking people down over it. But then they sacked Felder unfairly anyway as he was a share holder in the Eagles but thats a whole other story. Bottom line after all my ramblings is. I would probably still go as the Doobie Brothers are f***ing amazing and would make up for the Eagles cheat show. So enjoy, and let us know how you feel after the event. 👍
I went to see the Eagles and Steely Dan in February 2024 in New Orleans. Great show but whilst watching, my first thought was, how do these old guys manage to sing so well and hit these high notes, especially Joe Walsh who can hardly talk clearly these days let alone sing. A few weeks later, a friend sent me a link to Fil's Wings of Pegasus and that convinced me then that they were in fact miming. It kind of explained it to me, now it didn't really bother me, I had paid $150 but I was sitting in the gods but it was still a great show and a great experience. I had just seen a great band who I grew up with. On another note, last year I saw the Beach Boys in Albuquerque, the remaining two members, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston, 81 $ 83 years old respectively, now I knew that they couldn't sing all their old songs and neither do they pretend to, they have backing singers reaching all the high notes, another great show but the ticket price was only $75 which I was happy to pay to see them knowing that they needed assistance in singing. As for the £300 you've paid plus the 5 hour drive (two ways), I guess it depends how much you want to see them but I doubt they'll give a refund on the premise that you think that they are miming. As said, it is a great show, sadly Henley doesn't even stay on stage for some of the songs, doesn't drum that often and it does seem as though this is a last money making tour for them all, so they really don't care if they are caught out miming. Enjoy the evening if you go.
Steely Dan in 2024? Isn't one of them dead? Donald Fagen had to cancel shows because he had to go in to the hospital. What are you possibly expecting? And PS: it wasn't a "great" show. You went and saw two cover bands pretending to be The Eagles and Steely Dan. There are no "great shows" coming out of these people anymore. First off: the audiences suck! Who wants to go to a rock and roll show with a bunch of rich people, fat boomers with their obnoxious kids pretending they're at a real rock concert? I was given tickets to McCartney a few years ago, I was embarrassed.
@@johnwoods2736 The last time I saw Eagles was the first tour for Vince Gill. I know for a fact he was singing live because he flubbed the opening line of 'New Kid In Town' so badly that they stopped and restarted the song.
Fil goes above and beyond and is honest and trustworthy. His analysis of Don Henley was spot on.
Yes. You can tell he is obviously very competent and professional, and takes it very seriously.
I saw Genesis in their last tour, Phil Collins knew that his voice was not as good, but instead of having taped vocals to help, they hired backing vocals who sounded like Phil to fill in with the bits he was struggling with. It sounded very good, and I did not feel short changed.
I can't really imagine Phil Collins miming. He is old school and he would rather do a bad show than a fake show.
I saw that tour as well. It was very well done with the backing singers.
Brian Wilson did the same
Then that was a true live show.
Phil was so vulnerable and frail on his last solo tour and his tour with Genesis. Explaining he was not well but wanted to play anyway and both shows were very special to me because of that. It was a powerful final salute. Eagles two weeks ago on the other hand... My mate who went to the second show two days later rang me up afterwards and started ranting because of the backing tracks on all of them apart from Joe Walsch who sings like he talks.
I am a 70 year-old professional musician and vocalist. As I aged I lost about half an octave of easily obtainable vocal range…which is a lot. This required dropping the key of songs and reaching high notes using falsetto. Today, I do not have the ability to sing many songs with the quality necessary to produce a quality performance…so I have had to change my repertoire and move to songs I can sing properly. My point is, I always suspect vocalists of using tracks when they are over 70 and appear to be performing songs in the original key sounding like they did 40 years ago. Some may be able to still pull it off but I sure can’t and most of the other professional vocalists my age I know personally can’t either
Good on you for keeping it honest.
Respect. I see a lot of older singers who do just this. I’ve never heard any complaints, everybody s happy to see and hear them. You and they are being real. That’s great!
This total lip-synch act from a band known for vocals is outrageous. It’s so misleading. Henley fired people years ago who didn’t sound “like the record.” Now he’s doing this.
Thanks for your words, they're interesting. I'm curious about this subject, because I play only my own original songs, at my gigs. I generally function in the background, so no one is paying particular attention. As long as my music is pleasant, it adds to the environment and no one really cares what I'm playing (and I craft it carefully, so as to not have too much repetition, interesting key changes, and to be harmonically interesting.) When I sing, I use falsetto on the high notes, specifically to take the strain off of my voice (I commonly do gigs that are 3 or 4 hours in length.) I use my regular voice below the high notes. As an old guy, I believe that the use of falsetto is the only reason that I can sing my songs in their orginal keys. Singers that have popularized the sound of falsetto include Neil Young, Frankie Valli, and Barry Gibb. The problem with singing falsetto, for a lot of rock singers is that the style of the songs, often times, don't lend themselves well, to softer singing. Falsetto is inherintly a softer sound of vocal. Taking a high power rock tune, and singing the vocal part in a falsetto voice, might make the song lose a lot of its mojo. What is a rock star to do, if he can't deliver a song, and use falsetto to help with the high parts. What is he to do if loweing the key didn't work, and the audeince just won't accept a softer falsetto voice........ well, there always miming. Now, I'm going to propose something here that isn't common: It's the audience's fault. What you say ? !! The audience is paying to see something that is unrealistic. What if I told a 70 year old, that he has to squeeze into his swimsuit that he wore when he was 20. That would be unrealistic. He is not 20. His body has changed dimensions. The same thing applies to a voice, lots of times. Audiences asking a 75 year old to squeeze into his 20 year old voice, is unrealistic, just as it would be with a swim suit. To the audiences, I say: Get real. If your performer has aged 50 years, like his swimsuit, he's not going to fit into his vocals the same as it used to be, either. So, you either accept the fact that your hero isn't going to sound the same, or you accept that he's miming, or you don't go to shows expecting something that can't be delivered. At least McCartney goes out on the road and sounds crappy, some of the time, but it's really him. He's not miming. I'd say to the audience: Get real. This isn't 1974. Your heroes are not going to sound like 1974. Either accept their limitations, accept them miming, or don't go to the shows. It's that simple.
@@KenTeel Vocalists, like surgeons, must realize that they eventually lose their ability to perform like they once did because their vocal cords, like the surgeon’s fingers, have aged to the point where they no longer function well enough. At that point, the vocalist has to make a choice to retire, keep going but perform at a lower level if his/her fans allow it, change his/her repertoire to one not as challenging that he/she is capable of singing well, or, fake the performance and realize that he/she has become an actor, not a vocalist. I think many of us know a vocalist that continued to attempt performing songs that they no longer can perform well…I have always found that pitiful and cringe for the performer as he/she tries to hit the “high notes” and fails in front of their audience. For superstars, like McCartney, their super loyal fans will accept a diminished performance; that is why he is still performing at large venues even though his voice is nothing like it once was. So, superstars with huge loyal fan bases often choose to keep going until even their most loyal fans stop accepting a bad performance (that is sad…they could have gone out while still at the top instead of a has been). Then there are once high-end performers who once had lots of fans but not to the level of someone like McCartney. These are the performers that must put on a performance similar to their performances when they were in their prime (think come-back tours). These performers are the ones most likely to resort to miming. Then there are the rest of us who were never a big name act who spent a lifetime performing with various bands live and serving as background session recording singers. We really have no choice but to change our repertoire and retire when changing our repertoire is no longer enough. I always admired Les Paul. As he aged he lost more and more of his dexterity and guitar playing became less and less proficient. He faced that fact by starting to being more guest guitarists on stage with him to assist in putting on a great show. He never tried to hide the fact that his own abilities were diminishing, he made the audience aware that his fingers were failing him. The audience loved him for it and he always put in a great show right up to the week he died at near 100 years old! I am rapidly losing my singing voice and my fingers are getting worse by the day, soon I will just perform for my grand kids and great grand kids and leave the gigging and studio work to the younger, more capable performers. I wish you the best and hope you have many more years of quality performing ahead of you. Have a great day!
@@thepepperlanders You are so fortunate to still have your entire vocal range. As you know, most singers start losing range in their sixties and by the 70s have not only lost range, but some timber as well as control. The old instrument, the vocal cords, starts to show wear, but it’s also caused by wear on the diaphragm and lungs as well. I hope you are one of those vocalists that keep going well into your 80s. Have a great day, and happy music making!
I'd be pretty pissed off if I'd paid £300 to go and see any band "live" and end up seeing something that's been mimed!
I'd be pissed off if I went to a free "live" band and they lip-synced.
I’d be pretty pissed off if I’d paid £300 to see any band full stop.
@@DavidHamm-fb7nx I honestly can't think of anyone I would pay to listen to them play.
Happens more than you know.
@@DavidHamm-fb7nx Right!
Phil Collins/Genesis have been dropping keys for years. Absolutely isn't a problem, and just shows what a genuine artist has to go through to adjust a voice as you get older.
Agreed!
Meanwhile McCartney is keeping it real and copping shit for it. A true hero aging gracefully.
@@onomatopoeidiaMcCartney drops the key considerably. It's really obvious, I'm surprised you haven't noticed. And he's really sounding his age now. His voice is very shaky and unsteady.
They have to sing in a lower pitch because no one on the payroll tells them to do vocal exercises before the show.
The Stones do Satisfaction in D, not E as originally done.
In my honest opinion it's fraud.If you are telling people it's live and not saying there is mimed material being used it's dishonest.
It would be fraud.
I once went to see Milli Vanilli. Extremely disappointed that they sang live
🤣🤣🤣
Nice one 👍
Great.😀
Bahaha 🤣 it’s ironically become since decades. I got told off in 2002 for handing a singer a mic that was turned on and they went out on stage and sounded like a tone deaf munchkin. I thought I was doing the right job as an engineer! Apparently not.
😂😅
Because the price is so high and crowded I don’t go to big shows anymore! I like being able to go to a club and hear a band and see the players play. I don’t like fake stuff!
Yep, go to up and coming bands
Yup. You get a lot of nights at the Green Note for the price of stadium ticket.
Some bands that were pretty big back in the day were still touring in the 90s at small venues. I saw Rick Deringer, Guess Who, Firefall, April Wine, Stephen Stills, in small 300 seat clubs. Foreigner, Kansas and Blue Oster cult in 500 seat venues. These are the best shows.
Go see Arthur Brown ,awesome at over 80 !!!
300 quid. Sue him, given a chance he'd sue you for the same thing, he's the most litigious musician in history.
It is supposed to be labeled as a mime show, not a concert.
Agreed!
It will be interesting to see or hear the reaction to the band when they play(or mime)in the UK this year.
Surely the question is how many other musicians are doing this and how long has this been happening?
💯 %!
Thank you for crediting Fil, of "Wings of Pegasus" for not only discovering Don's lip synching. but also PROVING it with his analysis software. 😊
Eh? He does. He says the bloke’s name, he says the channel’s name, and he says it’s very good.
@@bigboxerable yeah and that comment has 23 likes, so 24 people that somehow took from this video that he did not credit Fil? How? He goes out of his way to do just that...
@@flyingfluffyhockey I know! Weird.
agree
Close to a decade ago, Henley was already doing “Desperado” transposed down into an easier key. This is not unusual for singers as they age, and completely acceptable. However, in 2024 the Eagles are doing Desperado back in its original key, night after night, for months on end.
If that doesn’t smell fishy to you, it should.
Edit: just watched more of your video, and realised you make exactly the same point. Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed this.
My mom paid 800 bucks for tickets in Tulsa. Video recording wasn't allowed, event staff were extremely rude and bullied people just for having phones out, getting up to use the restroom or get a drink, threatened to throw out a woman next to us for recording but she didn't have her phone out, people in front of our row mates standing up and dancing when no one else behind them was and cussing out anyone who protested because they were being blocked and elbowed. Joe Walsh was the best part of that show. I've sworn off stadium concerts for good.
$800? Your mom is a moron. It's 2024. 800 bucks for Geriatric Rock? What the f**k did she expect?
'Spy gasses'!
People were dancing, the horror! Your mom sounds awful. Anyone willing to pay that isn't based in reality
800 bucks?! Crazy
Fil is great. I’ve been a subscriber for ages. I can’t speak highly enough of his vids.
I especially enjoy it when he analyses one of my favourites like Patsy Cline, Bobby Hatfield or Elvis.
And Van the Man
I’ve seen them twice; at the O2 in 2009 and at Wembley in 2019. At the Wembley gig we couldn’t have been seated further from the stage, so were relying on the video screens. For most of the Don Henley sung tracks, the screens went off. They were on for all the other songs. Make of that what you will! Hope you can still enjoy the gig 👍🏻
I think it's unacceptable for any artist to lip-sync...it's cheating, simple!
To me this is close to fraud. But It is clear, at that age singing like with 40 years being, is nearly impossible.
@@clannad99germany70 Not close to fraud if you played them instruments you have in music video/and you while recording + its your voice!
@@mikekaraoke Music videos is something different than live performances IMHO !
@@clannad99germany70 The purpose of music videos is to serve as a commercial. That's why TV shows that show music videos don't pay the artists. They're broadcasting their commercials free of charge.
@@clannad99germany70then sing as an 80 years old, you're going to be praised, morally and financially, anyway. But sing or try to!
I believe that all artists should disclose if they are using pre-recorded vocal / instrumental tracks. Regardless of ticket prices the audience deserves to know what they’ll be hearing!
Gene Simmons was very outspoken on this topic and said the same as you a number of times.... right up until his bandmate Paul Stanley starting miming for their farewell tour. 🤣
The Eagles I love are the Eagles of 1977 with the great Don Felder who wrote Hotel California.
Me too, the band virtually ceased to exist after that.
Great music he wrote
Incorrect, Ian Anderson wrote it.
Don Felder shares writing credit on the song with another bandmate, he didn’t write the song by himself. Don Felder is an incredibly talented guitarist, one the best and I admire his personal integrity. There are/were other Eagles members that don’t have the same integrity and focus on money instead of honest artistic representation.
Saw them in 76 with Fleetwood Mac and Boz Scaggs opening!
I recently saw Don Felder at a 5 to 700 person venue. I stood 10 feet from him while he played his guitars and saying the Eagles songs. It was truly outstanding. His band mates were beyond reproach. Soooooo good.
Good move....wish we attended w/you! #DonFelder
I saw Don Felder several years. He was one of several people who were performing and he just stood out. Effortless and amazing performance.
@pauline7425
👍👍👍
I bet you got your money's worth ...
( That's if you paid anything at all, that is)
Good luck to you - I'll confess to being full-blown jealous...
Don Felder is somewhere laughing his ass off.
@@johnnydev9318 I think I paid maybe around $100. I can’t remember who else was performing but I know they were all world class musicians. He was on another level.
Love the tune at the end! Rick Beato would definitely get a kick out of that one. He's got the same issues with Don as well.
And now, the whole world hates him. Good. Hope he's happy he ruined The Eagles Music. Can't stand it now, turn it off the second it comes on. Have for years. If I want to hear children whining, I have a few already
Cringe old men sticking together
BEATO SUCKS...watch the Døvydas video too
If you mime at a concert, it should be explicitly stated so you have a choice as whether to purchase a ticket or not. Just like you can read the ingredients on food produce.
I lost all desire to see Eagles after the 2013 documentary. They totally screwed Don Felder.
Had been a lifelong fan of the Eagles and have seen them 3 times. After reading Don Felder's Heaven and Hell, I stopped buying their albums and no longer buy over priced tickets for their concerts.
Why? What did it say?
Also asking why, so I get a notification if there's a response.
Quite curious.
Dave, you're a very wise person
...
@@DRourkI've read it too, great book. Henley comes off as a huge jerk, Glenn Frey was only marginally better. Let's put it this way, they only cared about money, and treated Bernie Leadon and Randy Meisner badly. Felder was also shafted. He had to sign a NDA so he can't talk about the settlement he got from the Eagles, but I reckon he was paid off millions, after all, he wrote most of the music for Hotel California!
Books from people who are parties to non-disclosure agreements are universal garbage. They can't say shit about the only stuff people are actually interested in.
I would demand a refund. Fil’s analysis is devastating for the Eagles’ integrity. They are stealing money from their fans under false pretences.
"Their fans?" Half of the people in that arena probably stole money from The Eagles by downloading or streaming their music, you think they care about their "fans"? EAGLES FANS? Oh this is even funnier: "Eagles' intergrity"!!! When did the Eagles EVER have any integrity? What fans? A bunch of geriatrics and their kids? If you pay for Geriatric Rock, you get what you deserve. £300? What jackass pays £30 much less £300 to see an 80 year old rock star?
@@TTM9691 I Take you won't be going then :o)
@@ggj666 Not unless someone pays ME!🤣
amerikans love to be fooled, they pay for it gladly. 😊😊
@@TTM9691Spot on!
Robert Plant did Stairway a month or two ago and couldn't manage it like he used to. But to his credit he did his best with what he had.
Then there's McCartney, does it in the same key and it sounds a bit strained. So it stands to reason that those who sound perfect must be having some help.
I don’t think McCartney mimes, but he has the band to beef up his vocals.
Unfortunately Paul Rodgers is the exception rather than the rule. That fella is still incredible live.
I thought Plant hated Stairway, I'm surprised he'd do it, and I'm not surprised he'd do it without the rest of Zeppelin.
Hey...maybe I can have a career yet. I love good music, just can't sing well.
@@deborahohme5578 Bob has only ever got the right note by accident. Thousands use Autotune and pitch correction. So go ahead, and make millions - loads of artistes haven’t allowed a small thing like a complete lack of talent to stand in their way!
Seeing as how We Used to Know by Jethro Tull was plagiarised for Hotel California shouldn’t Ian Anderson be deciding on copyright strikes ?
Ian said he didn't mind, thought it was different enough with the different lyrics but yeah, I was shocked when I heard it for the first time recently, how close HC is to it. I played it to a friend who's a big Eagles fan, and he said "blantant rip off of HC!" until I told him the date of the JT song. He was also shocked.
Ian Anderson said both songs shared a very common chord progression, and didn't think it was worthy of a copyright case/lawsuit.
You people have become a stuck record.
Now there's a brilliant songwriter and musician.
Seeing as how there hasn’t been an original chord progression in a hundred years it doesn’t matter.
So you're saying Don Felder is a plagiarist?
I wouldn't go listen to the Eagles if someone paid ME $300.
Same@ I’d rather chew on tin foil than listen to the Eagles, Phil Colins or The Beach Boys!
Agreed.
The current line-up isn't the Eagles. It's just Don Henley and a cover band.
It’ll be worth it to tell Don face to face that his copyright striking behavior is terrible 😂
If only!
@@iamtjwalker MAKE UP A SIGN PUSH TO THE FRONT ARE YOU MIMING DON
I heard Dolly at Glasto (I was stuck in traffic!). She sang her songs. Then she improvised one about the people stuck in the mud. Her voice was completely different! I was watching her on the BBC2 60 Songs today, where they showed her doing Nine To Five at Glasto, and several times her mouth didn’t match the words.
I'm glad I wasn't imagining it!
@@iamtjwalker She did a duo with Richie Sambora (lay your hands on me) that day as well, think that was live, well it was, because she completely butchered it. Changed the words and everything.
I have subscribed because of your brilliant song. However, when it comes to Joe Walsh, I can forgive him somewhat because he came back to singing after a big stroke that, for a while took his voice completely. I used to run a stroke club in Oldbury in the black country UK. I know how these people sometimes never get back to how they were. It's a long hard road that is not always possible. His stuff Live From Daryl's House is brilliant considering. Anyway your song is pure genius. I loved it.
I didn’t know that…..feel bad now! Glad you like the song.
Yeah, he’s great on Live from Daryl’s House, that’s a good show.
No, you did a great Appraisal. If you don't have the information how could you know? It was not a critical comment. Just information that's all. Great song, that's why I like it.
I’m saw them back at in 2015. And I said to my wife the vocals were to good to be true, especially with their advancing years. It didn’t sound live at all to me.
So far no tapes from 2015 line up, so far the miming looks like it's been going on since at least 2017.
The Howard Stern thing was about 2015.....singing live in a dropped key.
I saw them in 2005 and was amazed at how much they sounded like the album. Maybe they were doing it then.
I'll be honest when we saw them in Florida and around 2004 I was skeptical at how good it sounded. I'm a bit of an audio file nerd and have their albums on high resolution formats. Their concerts sounded like a CD. Maybe they were that good then?
@@michaelkeudel8770 They've been relying on pre-recorded vocals to some degree since the Long Road Out of Eden Tour in 2008. Check out recordings of the track "Waiting in the Weeds" from that era, if you can find any.
Saw them in 1978 ….for $12 …they were great. I wouldn’t pay $1 to see them now.
Say them in that same era. MacManon Stadium in Calgary. Jesse Winchester opened. Seems to me the tickets were $18. What a show. Don't think there was any miming.
I paid $10.00 to see LED ZEPPELIN in1977 It wasn't that great of a show& that was alot of money for a single band, It was their Herron days
When I saw them it was actually‘77…my bad. Jimmy Buffet was the opening act. The encore was Buffet & Eagles joining Walsh in an awesome version of Rocky Mountain Way… Oklahoma City Ok
I agree, when they fired Don Felder, I lost all interest in them.They suck now.
I can beat that. I saw them about 1971-72 for $6. They only had their first hit then. And, they weren't the headliner, they were the warm-up band for Yes, who had just released (and they played) their Close to the Edge album. I was probably 6 rows back, center stage.
Fun Fact, since we're talking about Eagles and now Yes: I saw Jon Anderson last year and he still sang great. I know it was live because at one point he couldn't hit a few notes and he simply stopped singing and laughed about it. But overall still a very good performance.
Love Wings of Pegasus. Glad you like Fil's channel. Thanks for your posts.
me too
You should definitely switch your attention (and don't do any Eagles-like songs) to somebody who does deserve it: Jon Anderson, incredible voice at 70+ years old and on top of that he shows youngsters (Paul Green Rock Academy) how to appreciate 70's rock and play it to keep it alive. Jon deserves a monument just for that!
I won't go to stadium shows anymore. Coachella? You are out of your mind lol. Club gigs only. Tickets, parking, concessions are just simply ridiculous. There are so many bands that are either lip syncing all together or piping in additional backing tracks to cover up the gaps. Sorry, that is not live music. That's karaoke.
Well done TJ, the DON has spies everywhere, you would think he is down to his last dollar, I always thought that people doing your songs is a great form of flattery, but the DON takes it as a personal attack for some reason, if it wasn't for Linda Ronstadt giving him and Frey a break they may never had of come to what they had became, he is strange.
Bowie was aware his voice couldn’t hit certain highs on song, so he would rearrange the whole song into something different and still sound great.
I noticed this too with his live performances. Many praise Freddie Mercury, but Freddie was all too aware of his limitations and at times couldn't hit the high notes, and like Bowie, would rearrange the song into something different and still sound great.
I saw Jackson Browne a couple of years ago in concert, and it was similar with him. He's lowered the keys of some songs and definitely sounds different singing then, but I really enjoyed it! I almost liked it better, the texture and expression of age is nothing to be ashamed of! It can be an asset!
Excellent! GENIUS! Just discovered you, and I'm an instant fan and new subscriber. I love the song! And if Don Henley has any leftover artist in him, he'll love and appreciate your song, too!
Jon Anderson hits all his notes still. He's a unicorn.
Roger Daltrey hits all his notes as well. I can't believe how good he sounds.
Absolutely love your Eagles song names tune. 😂😂 But, ngl, I am so pissed at all the proof I’ve seen this week on Don miming his vocals. I’m a huge Eagles fan and would never pay for that BS! Hats off to Wings of Pegasus for breaking it down for us. Hope he doesn’t get sued by lawsuit obsessed Don 😉
If he is demonstrating the truth, he should have nothing to fear from a libel action.
Hi TJ - I just wanted to drop you a note. It takes a special kind of person to mention another TH-cam channel (and competitor) and share what they have knowledge of. This is my first time watching your channel, but I was interested in what you had to say regarding Fil (Wings of Pegasus). I've been a sub of his channel for years and I happen to think he is very honest and straight-forward with proof he shares to back him up. You're facing a really unique situation. If you really love The Eagles and want to see them in person - "live" - for the experience - GO! You know what they sounded like (pre-1998...after that almost all artists/bands began using pitch control or auto-tune...to some degree, especially in the studio) so take those vocals/memories with you when you go and forget that some (maybe a lot) of the vocals are being mimed!! Enjoy the experience - while you have the chance! I know if I were in your shoes, I'd go. I'm not a huge Eagles fan, but there are some artists/bands that I never saw and regret that I didn't. Keep the concert in mind when you get back home (or listen in the car) and remember what you experienced. Hopefully, 🤞🏻you'll have a great time!
I think you're right......I wish I'd seen Fil's video after I'd been as I probably wouldn't have noticed 😀 ps: really enjoying his channel now I've found it!
@@iamtjwalker I'm glad you like his channel, JT. He's a straight shooter and will not lead you wrong. I do hope you'll go to the concert, enjoy yourself and "Take it to the Limit!"
Guy I went to high school with is the drummer for the Doobie Brothers, Ed Toth. I’ll ask him to give me the lowdown after the show on Mr. Henley’s miming.
I loved that band. Ed's got a precarious job!
guy lol no one cares
I feel like he would have an NDA on that. Did you find out?
Great video. Loved the outro solo on your eagles 'tribute' - very tasty!
massive appreciation for your song at the end! What does his heartbreaking, I grew up such an Eagles fan and it took a lot to wean me away. Don has really outdone himself. your song is fantastic!😂
I was briefly involved with an Eagles tribute band . The leader had recorded all the vocals AND some instruments. Our instructions were to “sing if you want, but if you hear yourself coming out of the PA, step back from the mic”. i.e., “lip sync “. Not for me. Faking it seems to be part of the Eagles subculture, even at the lowly tribute band level. And of course, if that tribute band does start touring a bit, Henley’s lawyers will sue the hell out of the band and all its members (there’s plenty more about that in other YT vids. ) That DH is something else. Not for me.
They gave you a copyright strike for re-creating one of their guitar solos, so people could actually learn their songs... and then pay them royalities for using them live? How idiotic!!!!
I am glad I got to see them play for 6 hours for only $12 at Miami Stadium back in 1977. It was one of my favorite concerts ever. We drove 2 1/2 hours to see them.
You saw them at their peak.
They had sound problems years ago in Des Moines. They were booed off the stage. The crowd hadn’t putting up with anything but hard rock n roll. Taj Mahal played that nite too I recall. Way too expensive these days..
Yeah, of course, THAT'S when you go see The Eagles. In 1977. Not in 2024! What the hell do these idiots expect? Anyone who pays more than £30 much less £300 to see ANY Geriatric Rock is an imbecile for whom I have absolutely no sympathy for. I hope The Eagles are laughing all the way to the bank.
Except they didn’t play for 6 hours.
@@bullcrap9409 Yes, they did. They went on at about 6 and were still playing when we left at midnight.
Saw Purple live in 2006. Gillan didn’t attempt the high notes on Child in Time. He still did the song but he did the high note parts in his normal voice.
See the last Genesis tour, Phil Collins did something, struggeling in every moment, but he mostily failed, impossible to sing as it was before. Realities.
Micky Dolenz of the Monkees sings live and sounded great at least until his mid 70s, while Don Henley resorted to lip syncing.
Agree I saw Micky and Mike Nesmith in 2019 and Mr Dolenz was in great voice. To be honest he had one of the great voices of the '60s.
Nesmith and Dolenz came out here to Christchurch NZ around 2020, but they performed as "The Mike & Mickey Show" rather than trying to pretend they were The Monkees. It's ironic that a band that was derided for years as fake now has far more musical integrity than a lot of other bigger name artists.
@@terryhall3960 well said
On the positive side - you will LOVE the Doobie Brothers (who actually PERFORM their music and vocals). I saw them a couple of years ago with Michael McDonald - one of the best concerts, musically, that I have ever been to. Band is super tight and Michael McDonald is a LEGEND!!
TJ first time seeing your channel, and I'm a fan. I share your love of music, and enjoy your analysis, and your English accent is awesome man.
This whole Tracks thing has really blown up. There has always been backing tracks used in live concerts. I mean ACDC in Hells Bells, played live w track of the steeple church bell, Van Halen keyboard fills on Jump, Love comes Walkin In, and others, that after the 5150 that Eddie actually played keyboards live, they were tracks on live shows after that tour, Ed was back on the guitar.
Def Leppard recently now come under fire for using tracks, which is no secret, and Rick Savage has even demonstrated in many behind the scenes interviews, demonstrated the pedals he uses on certain songs for the background intros to a few songs, and the pedals he plays for the short uses, but all the drums, guitars, and amazing vocals are live.
What's happening now though I the bands like Motley Crue, being outted for the guitar, bass, drums, and Vince Neal's vocals, ALL TRACKS, talk about Miming, thats why fans are pissed, and how Motley Crue keeps latching on to the coat tails first w Def Leppard, and coming up soon w Guns n Rose's, who wants to pay 300.00 400.00 to come out and watch a bunch of overweight has been lypsyncing and playing air guitar
Great observation about the key change from F to G. Adds to the case!
Yeah, it surprised me when I noticed!
Have to disagree about Rod Stewart. If you compare live now to 70's/80's. He's dropped the key at least 4 semitones in his higher register songs. Baby Jane for example is Dm but now Bbm.
Ah ok....didn't know that! He was certainly doing a lot of the songs in the original key.....the ones the keys of!
On a related note, did you see Paul McCartney's embarrassing effort to sing Let It Be at the Jimmy Buffet tribute. It was heartbreaking to watch. Please, loved you guys in the day but please recognize when the time has come to just let it be.
It was difficult to watch, but at least he can’t be accused of faking his vocals.
@sparkman1952 I'd rather have him sing it badly than lip synching. Elton John quit touring, it's not the end of the world.
Jesus, the guy is 81 years old. He was asked to perform at a tribute show. The last show he performed was 6 months prior. Who the hell can do anything like they used to, at 81? Vocals are tough at that age. His piano playing was perfect
@@malinwj1167 I appreciate he may have wished to appear as a tribute to Buffet, but a few sentences may have been a better choice. The eagles also need to stop. Time catches up with us all.
@@johnchance1959 Huh? He was Jimmy's friend and they bonded musically. It was a show of performances. He's not going to show up and not play
Hi! I watched Fils' vlog about Don Henley miming also. I had been looking to book tickets to see Eagles in Manchester with at that time Steely Dan as support which would have been perfect. Anyway as we know they have been replaced by The Doobies which I would have been well pleased with. After seeing the prices of any decent seats £400 up I decided it was too expensive, nearly a 1000 for 2 tkts plus they could possibly be miming??? That killed it for me. Hope someone videos it the truth might come out??
Henley sang for real in Manchester -- he switched back to singing after he was caught lip synching
Regarding miming: How does a song start in regard to tempo to ensure that the vocal is in time. I assume there must some form of click track or other cue to ensure everything is in time. I ask because most bands are unable to keep perfect metronomic time etc. Anyone any ideas.
I saw The Doobie Brothers in concert a couple years ago and I swear the vocals just sounded TOO good to be all live. Simmons even said he had the worst case of laryngitis he'd ever had, but you couldn't tell.
I saw them in 2009 and thought the same thing. Vocals were too good to be true
A double bill of miming! I would be very surprised if Michael McDonald is miming....I think he still does it live.
I did a gig with severe laryngitis could not let the venue down, couldn't hit a single note, struggled through two hours singing lead and playing bass. After the show a kid came up to me and said I had an amazing blues voice.....
Great video. Glad I found your channel. Don’t worry about a bit of “production”-this lineup isn’t really Eagles! Without Frey, Felder, Meisner and Leadon it’s like the proverbial ancient axe that’s had a replacement head and a couple of replacement handles.
It's just very very hard to comprehend somebody like Joe Walsh or Vince Gill and yet a concert went on it's just hard to believe that Joe Walsh and Vince Gill knew this was happening
Oh, they obviously knew. I lost respect for Walsh a long time ago.
They are paid employees nothing more.
Don Henley and Frey’s widow own all shares of the band and its name it’s why Felder quit.
Frey and Henley bought everyone out and made them hired touring musicians.
I played support for pop will eat itself in the early nineties. I was shocked to find that there was an 8 track tape deck behind the curtain. The keyboard player had masking tape on the kb, labelling the sounds, the whole band including the guitarist was miming. I was very tempted to pull the power on the tape deck. The only saving grace was that Adrian Sherwood was mixing. This has been going on for a very long time. Enjoyed your video and the song was superb.
Ah, you saw the Wings of Pegasus video too? Love their music, can't stand Henley. I wouldn't pay that much for a concert, I'd rather pay to see genuine, live music like what you bring to the venues. Yup, I see you did watch his video lol. Don't get a refund, if it's sold out, sell it for 4 times the price :)
Found the Republican.
Now there's an idea! I still want to see them though!
Nice channel! Just discovered, liked and subscribed. Even shared! 👍🎸
Been trying to get a refund for 2 weeks we spent 700.00 and with the hotel it's near on 1000 ticket master do not want to know,so we are in a pickle the eagles are a disgrace when you have people like Jon bon jovi thinking of giving up completely because of voice problems and not wanting to taint his legacy speaks volumes for the man
Well until you consider that JBJ just equally screwed everyone with a new album that is done majority with AI programmed vocals selling it as legitimate and also as the cherry on top is selling copies that are "signed" but the signature has been proven to be a machine signed signature because they all are the same or have just a few variations to try to not get caught. He's a disgrace too
This quote from James McBride seems apt:
“Listen, don't meet your heroes. If you meet your heroes, you're always going to be disappointed.”
Eagles are one of my top 3 favourite bands and I am happy to have the Farewell Tour (ahem!) recorded at Melbourne DVD from 2005 to remember them by.
A perfect performance and everything after is a re-hash and cannot be equalled.
I would be interested to see if a refund is even possible. The irony of all this. Didn't Randy Meisner get fired because he couldn't or didn't want to sing the high notes in "Take it to the Limit???" Further irony would be if Henley and his legal team ended up with a class action suit for defrauding thousands of concert goers. P.S. I love your song. Take it to the limit indeed.
Your paying to SEE The Eagles, there's no contract other than for them to show up and stand onstage. If someone is that idiotic to pay £300 to see The Eagles, or any Geriatric Rock band, they get what they paid for. He SAW The Eagles. That's what we say right? "I saw the band at the club last night". I'm sure they were playing their guitars, so there you go, they played, they performed. No one got defrauded; you're paying to clap at people who have given you your life's music, not for them to pretend they're still 26 years old. If you're too stupid to know you're not seeing musicians in their prime, whose fault is that?
As soon as a band starts adding back up singers and extra keyboardists and percussionists and stuff like that - which all these bands have been doing since the 80s - you're already not getting the real article, what alternative reality have you been living in?
Re Randy Meisner, my thoughts exactly. Oh the irony!
@@TTM9691 you sound very angry, calm down!
@@goodshipharmony Angry? No, doofus, I'm pissing my pants with laughter! The complete opposite! You might want to focus on content rather than how people "sound" to you. And PS: Just because you're steeped in mediocrity doesn't mean I have to be. A person who pays money to go see "rockers" in their 70s and 80s, and then expects them to sound like the record, or even do a good show, are the most laughable pathetic half-wits to ever draw breath. Any questions, dopey?
I recall that Randy was overwhelmed by the attention of doing that song that made him so popular, also I think there was bullying involved? I hope Randy was happier outside of Eagles, his solo hit "Never Been in Love" is my favourite beyond anything the Eagles did or the solo songs of other members.
The eagles wings were clipped years ago. Just get the audience to sing the high notes and give them a reduction in ticket prices for their efforts.
Good idea!
You Can't Get Me Just fot Singing The Names 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Haha
Years ago, I read that Don Henley said he would rather have needles poked into his eyes than sing Desperado again. I guess he found a way. I've seen the Eagles once, Vince Gill twice, and Michael McDonald once. I think you should go to the concert, even knowing what you know. You might regret it if you don't. Have a blast and I can't wait to hear all about it. And I loved your song!! That was GENIUS!!
£300 to watch a guy move his lips in time to a backing track? no way!
My question would be were the two recordings done by the same person and same phone? To me , those shouldn't match either doe to distance to speakers and ambience like you mentioned.
Typically, the front of house engineer will have two channels for the lead vocalist - one that's doing the pre-recorded track, and one that's their actual mic. When they are "singing", they mute the mic and open the track. When they talk in between songs, they unmute the mic and mute the track. The OBVIOUS temptation on a long tour is the fact that it doesn't stop at just miming vocals ... as they know the music so well having played it for years, then they'll ALL be able to mime to a COMPLETE backing track
Thank you for your explanation . I have zero musical knowledge of how things work and wondered. I saw the eagles with Jimmy buffet in the hotel California tour. Joe Walsh burned the house down with Rocky Mt way. The encore was desperado. We were 8th row floor. I loved John Denver, and saw him several times. During the middle of one song he broke a guitar string, said whoa, put in the new string, no roadies, tuned the guitar and ... let's try this again. Alabama best concert band ever. Cheers, Patricia
I wouldn't blame the Eagles, but you'd be right to lament the world. Tracks is accepted now (I guess) but IMHO it invalidates the whole point of seeing a band live - removes the possible tension of 'bum notes' but completely removes any sense of that magic moment when music happens. Very few people can do this seamlessly (GrahamNash!!!) but did you hear Joni Mitchell not quite able to reproduce her early work at the gig last year? It was breathtaking.
Don Henley did the same Desperado in 2024, he did on 2023. When viewed on a voice analyzer, two vocals cannot overlap, exactly, from two different performances. Focal patterns are like fingerprints. Whatever you folks want to think, Desperado by Henley was lip synced in 2024 from 2023. Is Don Henley doing his job? Is that fraud?
I have seen Phil's video and it was very interesting. Could the similarity in vocals from different nights be explained by Henley having a vocal from one night playing in his ear buds so he can match it that way?
Nope. He then used Michael Jackson singing the same line during a recortding session to show that each time was different.
I quit going to concerts years ago because I could tell that most of the acts were performing to recorded music and it was not live. I am not paying big bucks to see recordings. I can play my tapes and CDs, etc at home.
I'm going too. I'm 33 and have never seen the Eagles live, so as a huge fan of them I was extremely excited to get a ticket for this, despite it costing me £200. 'Was' being the key word. I'm not so sure I'll enjoy it now having seen the videos on TH-cam exposing the miming.
Seeing the Doobie Brothers will be cool, and the bits of the Eagles set that aren't mimed (if there are any), but to not hear Don singing Desperado, or Hotel California, is a huge blow.
I'm travelling a much shorter distance than you and have paid less, so I really feel for you. I am absolutely gutted.
Don Henley is back to singing after being exposed lip synching. I could tell from videos of 2 Manchester concerts on 5/31 to 6/1.
@@fluthyhehim66 I went on Friday and the gig was amazing. Assumed he was still lip-syncing for some tunes, but he wasn't doing it for absolutely all of his vocals, I don't think.
Enjoyed that, thanks. Amused by your irritation at having to travel so far north 😮 The journey many of us have had to do in reverse so many times, because artists only played London! You can do it ‘The Long Run’ 😅 I hope you will post a review.
Ha yes....I guess I am being a bit of a southerner there! I always thought bands would do some gigs in the south and some in the north.....I can imagine it's annoying if they only do London. I live near Brighton so I have to go "up north" for almost everything.....but Manchester takes a lot longer than London!
Thinking about this more, it's quite easy to descend into a rant but I'll try not to! I remember some years ago listening to Kenny Rogers talking about recording with Henley; "He warms up for two hours!!" was the stand-out from that and in a way, I wasn't surprised. Don's vocal range and accuracy was second to none. I later saw Henley in Manchester on the Cass County tour and the 'no filming' thing was very emphatic there - something Henley qualified later during the show saying; "Nobody wants to be 'in the moment' any more..." So here we are a few years later, miming to a three-year-old vocal track. How 'in the moment' is that exactly??!!
If you can't do it any more, don't do it at all. I've seen a number of 'legends' in recent years and half of those shows have been garbage. The Pension Top-up Tour!! Part of the problem might be that so many fans are more than happy to settle for less, going into ecstatic 'puppy' mode because they're seeing their idols, regardless of how poor the performance is. I've read reviews of shows I've been to which have left me wondering if I was really there! As for using age as an excuse, three words; 'Michael Philip Jagger'...!!!
I love Don Henley’s solo stuff and I never knew he did a Cass County tour in the UK. Gutted to have missed that. I saw the Eagles on the History of the Eagles tour quite a few years back and said I wouldn’t go again as Henley really struggled with the high notes all night - not his fault, but it just wasn’t the same as previous Eagles tours I’d been to. A good friend of mine saw them a few years later and said the vocals were perfect, so I assumed the concert I saw had been an off night. Got tickets to see them in Manchester in 2 weeks time and now I’m wondering if Henley really does mime and that’s why his vocals improved so much.
I think you can use Autotune live. Could it be that’s what they are doing?
Anyway, I am going with someone who has never seen them before and who has wanted to see them for years, so whatever happens, I’ll enjoy him enjoying it.
@@stuartroberts7904 Yes you can use Autotune live, but there is no electronic gizmo that will perfectly align your phrasing and timing, other than a recording.
My brother saw the Eagles playing live somewhere in America in the 1980’s and he said that there was no point in seeing them play live because it sounded exactly like the record. Cheaper to stay home and listen.
The best live performance that I ever saw was Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers playing in a small venue in Bristol in the late 1980’s. He never gives the same performance twice, always changing things around, sometimes even calling a new chord change to his band halfway through a song!
That is playing live to that particular audience on that particular night and it was just for us.
I love the Eagles music, am a big fan of Joe Walsh, but refuse to see the Eagle without Don Felder.
the nail in the coffin for this being true was when one line had a drop out in the recording, the second recording would perfectly fill in the gap from the missing line.
Hell yes. Get your money back as the Eagles are now officially dead. Fil busted their asses wide open, and I hope he causes them to lose millions.
Don't give ANYBODY money to be fake. Henley's a prick to boot. Let him go broke.
I wouldn’t pay a nickel to go see the Eagles now. They’ve made their money, and now it’s just a ruse.
Who or what is Fil? I agree with you.
@@Larrymh07 Fil, Wings of Pegasus a TH-cam chanel that analyses songs and he discovered that the exact same audio appeared in a lot of concerts apparently.
@@guitarman704 Ah, thank you! I've seen it. It's a terrific channel.
I wouldn't go if it was me. In fact I've given up seeing any big artists just because the cost have started to get really silly, especially when there are loads of local/cover bands you can see at a fraction of the price without travelling and who are genuinely playing/singing. This "miming" issue just puts another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.
Daltry got caught out at Glastonbury. During Won’t Get Fooled Again, he was busy complaining about the monitoring and ripping his in-ears out when the famous scream came in and he missed it.
Seems even the greats need a little help
Haven't seen that....must look that up!
Considering Daltrey’s age and the part that he’s doing, I would give him a pass. Henley is a vindictive, humorless anal wart that has nothing but extreme contempt for the fans.
A little help? More like cheating.
As a fan of the Who but not the Eagles, this one hurts much more.
@vanleeregan4644 I guess it is the new normal.
Your singing, playing, and composing are very impressive, TJ, especially your ability to adopt a convincing Southwestern U.S. twang when singing. I'm from the Mid Atlantic East Coast and I couldn't do that as well.
Perhaps the song Lying Eyes should be renamed to Lying Vocals? 🤔
Or Lyin' Guys'?
I’d love to have seen the eagles way back but how may are left? One or two maybe?
3 (Don Henley, Joe Walsh, Timothy B Schmit)
The Eagles are my all time favourite band, love all the songs and have seen them perform live just the once….I was so excited to see they were coming to Manchester but when I saw the price of the tickets I was astounded…….this is more than likely the last time their U.K. fans will get the chance to see them, it’s utter greed. Dare I say…..I go to see the tribute band (Illegal Eagles) whenever I can, they sound amazing and put on a great show.
ive seen the eagles, 2007 i think, brilliant!! can no longer afford their prices, seen the illegal eagles and i agree.....illegal...cheaper..but...brilliant!!!
@@ChrisOsborne-pr1iy there are a lot of tribute bands about who are as good as the originals……Rumours of Fleetwood Mac are another great tribute band and they are endorsed by Mick Fleetwood himself.
@@bethany5688 i can second that!! myself and the wife saw rumours of fleetwood mac, excelent!! i have also seen trextasy, another great triute band!
@@ChrisOsborne-pr1iy oooh need to look out for them👍
Nearly Dan are very good. Seen twice.
They can program the vocal effects to do that. Sync up everything and make the pitch changes .
So technically might not be foul.
Nice guitar phrasing at the end. Regarding The Eagles they have always been perfectionists, and they've often "cheated" to get there. That doesn't mean they weren't amazing performers. Two things can be true at once. But for instance even on the records, just the phrase "City girl seems to find out early" on New Kid In Town consist of 5 different vocal takes sliced together, with one just being a consonant, another take being a single word etc. Bill Szymczyk revealed that. That was the only way they could get that level of perfection. Don Felder revealed in his book "Heaven and Hell" that one of the most perfect live performances ever released "Hell Freezes Over" contained so many overdubs that it was a basically an illusion. And ever since 1999 they have been using pitch correction on everything they have released, starting with the Millenium Concert and heavily on "Long Road Out Of Eden", "After Hours" and "Cass County".
And STILL, they were amazing performers in their prime, just not as amazing as they wanted the product to be. If you listen to the raw soundboards from "The Hell Freezes Over" tour, they are terrific performances, sounding more like a record than 90 % of the bands out there. But NOT as perfect as the officially released stuff. They set unnaturally high bars for themselves.
That is all true..... I always though the records are as close to perfection as I've heard. And I'm sure in their peak the live performances were as good as live performances could get......they are great singers and musicians. They have set the bar high!
I bet Don Henley is a miserable person to be around
I subscribed to this video and liked it more for your song, singing Eagles' titles, than the rest of the video which has me wondering if I have ever experienced a truly live and spontaneous concert? I think though that at least BB King and Jeff Healey were trustworthy and probably Loverboy and Rik Emmett and probably all the others including Eric Clapton? I saw Don Henley live, Susanna Hoffs opening for him...
Thanks! Glad you like the song! I think those artists you mention are/were keeping it real! It was a shock to learn about Don!
The Eagles might not be performing yet if Co-op Live don't get the venue sorted out!!!!!!
Just seen The Eagles at the Coop Arena in Manchester. It was a cleverly engineered salad of miming, close ups of some excellent guitar riffs and help from the new young singer designed to make a bunch of 75 year-olds sound like 20 year-olds. The arena was horrible, beers were £9 for a pint or £16 for two, two small cans of Eurofizz and a pie and a hot dog £31. We got ripped off at every turn.
Did you have to pay the £25 for parking for a few hours also! It's only about money now, get as much as they can, got nothing to do with shows for the fans.
bruce dickinson doesnt lip sync as he forgot the words to stranger in a strange land at nottingham last year and sang the chorus again , he got daggers from the rest of the band
Brilliant....Bruce is a great singer.
Paul Rodgers (Bad Company) mixed up the words of Burning Sky yet was fine with it to even include it on the live album. And . yes, he still sounded good.
Bruce puts his pants on just like the rest of you, one leg at a time, but then once his pants are on, he makes gold records.
If it hasn’t already happened, I would expect that legal disclaimers will now be included with ticket purchases that vocal or instrumental tracks may be used during performances. Basically to prevent any lawsuits against the artists.
I have also seen content inferring that they have potentially been miming instrumentation too. Whether this is true or not perhaps time will tell.
As I posted above, when a vocalist mimes, it will be to a backing track. It would be far easier to have the WHOLE band miming to a complete track, which means they can play (something they'll know inside out having played it for years) KNOWING that any mistake (or bum note) they play won't be heard. They can just coast along, knowing that at an Arena gig the audience will believe the illusion because what they can see and hear will be slightly delayed (light travelling faster than sound etc) so they will factor that in and enjoy the experience thinking it's 'real' ...
It almost has to be both faked if you’re faking the vocals, the music has to be perfectly in sync
@@prd004.2 If you are using a click this wouldn't be much of a problem though, you could still play your instruments. I have played live many many times with other musicians using a click. In certain circumstances it is a really useful tool.
Some people can still play well with a click....it does take practice though I think!
I think if you have a click you can do it.....but it's 2 things to be thinking about so it looks real!!
I've seen the Eagles three times, the last time about dozen years ago when they opened a capella with Seven Bridges Road. I've always been suspicious of their perfection in concert. There comes a time when singers should just 'fess up and either stick to shower singing or do an age-appropriate version. I love the Eagles, but Don Henley isn't on my list of people I'd want to have a beer with.
Its kind of ironic. Don takes down fan covers because he feels its cheating him even though he would get revenue from it, but then cheats the fans miming and by charging extortionate prices to see the Eagles Live! Live means singing live to most people. Yes, we are seeing them in the flesh, but its no more than a top of the pops production if they are just going to mime.
I have no problem with singers dropping down songs so in their older age they can still sing them. In fact i would prefer that to miming.
This brings me to the whole pitch correction thing.
Its understandable to use it in the studio. An artist has been flogging his voice through an album of songs and maybe he just didnt make it on the odd lyric so a word here and there just needed a tweak.
But, now we have live pitch correction where artists use it live all the way through the song or they mime.
This is because the industry has created a great competetive monster. One group sounds 100% perfect, so in competition they all have to sound that good. Result is, when anyone hears someone singing live and maybe a bit pitchy here and there, weve all been brainwashed into being judgemental.
The fact is, hitting a note pitchy or flat now and again, is part of true singing. I personally like to hear it worts and all. It shows the artist is putting his soul into it rather than sitting back and letting a machine do it for them.
I think by the Eagles miming and not disclosing this, i would feel somewhat cheated at the price they are asking.
On a side note, Walsh is forced under Dons contract to mime, but sings live on his independant non Eagle performances, or so ive heard.
As for your cover of Hotel California TJ. Don Felder wrote it, so not sure how Don Henley gets off taking people down over it. But then they sacked Felder unfairly anyway as he was a share holder in the Eagles but thats a whole other story.
Bottom line after all my ramblings is. I would probably still go as the Doobie Brothers are f***ing amazing and would make up for the Eagles cheat show. So enjoy, and let us know how you feel after the event. 👍
I agree about them dropping the keys.....they're all great singers....i'm sure they still are....just a bit lower!!
Do they give you a taped copy of the show as you exit?
Ha! I guess they might not need to tape each show as they might be all the same!!
I went to see the Eagles and Steely Dan in February 2024 in New Orleans.
Great show but whilst watching, my first thought was, how do these old guys manage to sing so well and hit these high notes, especially Joe Walsh who can hardly talk clearly these days let alone sing.
A few weeks later, a friend sent me a link to Fil's Wings of Pegasus and that convinced me then that they were in fact miming.
It kind of explained it to me, now it didn't really bother me, I had paid $150 but I was sitting in the gods but it was still a great show and a great experience.
I had just seen a great band who I grew up with.
On another note, last year I saw the Beach Boys in Albuquerque, the remaining two members, Mike Love and Bruce Johnston, 81 $ 83 years old respectively, now I knew that they couldn't sing all their old songs and neither do they pretend to, they have backing singers reaching all the high notes, another great show but the ticket price was only $75 which I was happy to pay to see them knowing that they needed assistance in singing.
As for the £300 you've paid plus the 5 hour drive (two ways), I guess it depends how much you want to see them but I doubt they'll give a refund on the premise that you think that they are miming.
As said, it is a great show, sadly Henley doesn't even stay on stage for some of the songs, doesn't drum that often and it does seem as though this is a last money making tour for them all, so they really don't care if they are caught out miming.
Enjoy the evening if you go.
Thanks! Shame I won't get to see Steely Dan like you did!
I wouldn't be surprised if Vince Gill is still singing live. He's about 10 years younger than Don, Timothy and Joe.
Steely Dan in 2024? Isn't one of them dead? Donald Fagen had to cancel shows because he had to go in to the hospital. What are you possibly expecting? And PS: it wasn't a "great" show. You went and saw two cover bands pretending to be The Eagles and Steely Dan. There are no "great shows" coming out of these people anymore. First off: the audiences suck! Who wants to go to a rock and roll show with a bunch of rich people, fat boomers with their obnoxious kids pretending they're at a real rock concert? I was given tickets to McCartney a few years ago, I was embarrassed.
@@johnwoods2736 The last time I saw Eagles was the first tour for Vince Gill. I know for a fact he was singing live because he flubbed the opening line of 'New Kid In Town' so badly that they stopped and restarted the song.
Seeing any artists who mime or lip sync is not worth the money.