I just went to watch Roger Daltrey with his solo band. 80 years old. Totally live, mistakes, false starts and all. Voice still sounds like Roger, no mistaking. You can tell where he changes some parts and arrangements to suit his range now, which is not an issue at all. The only thing he won't do is the scream in Won't Get Fooled Again, which he explains before they start the song that it is just too hard on his voice now. So he's turned it into an audience participation part letting the crowd do it instead. Better than lip syncing it if you ask me...
Roger Daltrey remains a class act who has maintained his integrity. He handles the way his natural voice is today with honesty and that should earn him the great respect and appreciation of the audience. Artists who refuse to "go with the flow" and use miming or pitch correction, autotune or AI to change their natural voice should make this known at their live performances and on their recordings.
Yep....you don't need to go to that level to tell as just matching them up you can hear it's the same vocal.....but I'm glad he did as it proves it beyond doubt!
H ello from America. I'm nearly 70 .. ugh! ... but I was young when the best music was made and concerts were real. I loved John Denver and saw him everytime he was on tour. He actually hired Elvis' band after Elvis faked his death. But during one song a string broke on his guitar, he gestered to the band to stop, asked for a string which he did himself, then tuned the guitar and said let's try that again. Barry Manilow... fabulous live ... was at the piano and missed a note on Mandy, quickly pinched his throat and said, oops, and started again. Elton John burned the house down. His only prop was he had a monitor for the words, which I certainly couldn't remember them all .. the late 1990s. The country group Alabama, four guys, one savant, Jeff. I saw them two or three times a year, they were fabulous. After Phil's video came out, I read where somebody paid $2500 for 1 ticket to see them here in America and boy, was he angry. He could have stayed home and listened to the CD. I saw them live in I think 1979, the hotel California tour. They were fabulous. Jimmy buffet opened for them. Joe Walsh had everyone up on their feet to Rocky Mt way ... even the ushers. I'm a single mom and have no.other living relatives, but my son loved Metallica, still does, I bought him 2 floor seat tickets in advance for graduation. They were $400 each. Worth every penny. They played in the round. And he ran to where the area was blocked off for them to walk to the stage. He was talking to one of the roadies he recognized from a CD cover, and basically stood 10 ft away from James Hatfield, who threw him a guitar pick. He bought 2 t shirts, and I parked across the street. I had a suv and it literally was rocking. I thought the roof was going to fly off and the coliseum was going straight into space. No tracks. No miming. My son still says today one of the best days of his life. He and the guy who came with him were both fast asleep 10 minutes after we got on the interstate for the 2 hr drive home. It saddens me those wonderful days of concerts are gone and replaced with technology. Sorry you had negative responses for telling the truth. Sorry for the long response. Take care Patricia
@@kingofallwhites oops. Sorry. But it's your own damn fault. You have to learn to shut the window if you're gonna sing in the shower, and quit ordering peanut butter and bananas with your walmart delivery. Spread it out. TCB ...
I think the complaints are a distraction from the real issue. Charging £300 for a ticket (to watch them on a screen because you’re too far from the stage unless you’re lucky) and then making YOU go to Manchester to see them and all the cost that entails rather than actually touring the country. Support your local bands.
Not necessarily imperfections but I get what you're saying. At one point a musician whose name I can't recall right now said it best. He said it's not music if it's not played a different way every single time.
Why? If you can't tell the difference without close examination, you're still being entertained and getting your money's worth. The most disturbing thing about all this is people paying to see clapped-out octogenairians play tired old 'hits' for the zillionth time. Yawn.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Well yea, if you are fine with paying to see something that you are not actually getting and the con has bypassed you then by all means carry on. When I pay to see a live band, thats what I am expecting. Not someone pretending at playing live. As for your other point. Clapped out octogenarians like to go and watch clapped out octogenarians. And yea a lot of them probably wouldn't notice that it was being mimed.
I’m 13 and honestly I’m not even sure I want to know. I love that band so damn much. I’ve been saving for years and finally saved enough and got tickets myself and my parents. They were like a grand. I don’t know what to think but I love them so much and have been raised on music from the best time in history.
me too no matter what they said about DH I still like him & his music. he is multi talented & u can count in your fingers a drummer & at the same time he is singing while playing the drums
Since it is ridiculously expensive to go to concerts these days the least thing one could demand is that the perfomers sing live. For many years it's been obvious that artists who move around a lot while singing often mime, since it's very hard to sing well and dance at the same time, but nowadays it seems like more or less everyone is miming. Another common trick is that they have a secret singer back stage who does the real singing, while the star mimes his or her vocal. But as long as people are prepared to pay for the charade it will go on.
Good to see you've come to the logical conclusion. Question remains to what extent Don and the other guys lip sync. I don't think Vince did much unless he sang over some of the pre-recorded choruses. Interesting to see how they'll cover this up at The Sphere. I don't see them policing the cell phones to the extent that they have. I did see them go into the audience at a U2 show to tell a guy to stop vaping. No close ups of Don singing on those 16K resolution big screens. We'll see.
I’ve watched my videos back from night 2 and it’s more than bloody obvious somethings going on. Also I uploaded one to instagram and it got copyrighted so it had to be a recording.
Someone should sue Don Henley, with one of those mass cases for not providing live vocals, whatever those cases are called. Hit him with his own medicine. I'd pay to go see his sentencing before I'd pay to see a concert.
Hi Tom, as you know I have been singing my skinny ass off for decades, and can totally back up what you are saying, and as you also know, I have worked as a live vocal coach on many major tours by major artists, and I hate to destroy the myth that all of these fabulous artists that people love don't mime/lip sync, but I can assure that they do, and this is from someone who has spent hundreds of hours standing next to the sound engineers at these gigs. The only one who I have been present at next to the sound engineer that hasn't used lipsync/miming, or lowered the key of the songs because they are not able to sing the way they did 20, 30, 40 yrs ago, was Michael McDonald.
Michael McDonald with the Doobies was the support for the Eagles when I saw them. He absolutely was not miming.....phenomenal.....I was disappointed that Steely Dan had to pull out, but when I found out that MM was there with the Doobies it more than made up for it. The only other singer I know who is that good it Papa Dee!!
when i follow an artists career for decades i WANT to hear the changes that come with age and how the performer adjusts their singing and playing to accommodate these inevitable changes . Joni mitchell is a good example .she eliminated certain high notes and slowed the tempo down which gave her more time to recover in between lyrics . it was all very beautiful ., her later version of both sides now with its slow and haunting background is as good if not better than the original . that said i WANT a real live performance with no pitch correction and other electronic sht when i go to a live concert . a lot of these artists need to stop pretending they are still young and give a performance that is honest and beautiful in its own way .
I’m a drummer, I first discovered this watching a couple eagles DVDs with dad. There was a drum fill from the speakers yet he never moved his hands from the hat/snare.
I'm not a musician but I suspected something when I watched them on their second night. When Henley was 'singing' you could see it was out of sync on the screen. Everyone else it was in sync. BUT if he feels he can't sing anymore what's the alternative? No tour? It was still a fantastic gig and I can say I saw the Eagles. I'd see it again. Miming included.
They could change the key to allow him to hit the notes, if that's the problem, or he could sing those lines lower. Other artists do this when they get older. Or they could drop the song from the set. Or have somebody else sing it. And if those last two seem like they'd be cheating the audience of something they specifically came to see, then I'd argue they're less a cheat than having the guy mime his performance.
It's not like he needs the money. Just shows he has no integrity, and it is and always has been about the money. I'm a big fan of the Eagles, love the music and songs. I used to be a fan of the Eagles and all it's members, especially Glenn. But now, after knowing what they are like as people, I'm a fan of Don Felder, Randy was great, and Joe is cool, love his stuff. I wouldn't stop to help Don Henley and Glenn is dead. There is one other long time Eagle that never gets mentioned, yet is very instrumental in the success of the Eagles. And without Felder (the genius behind Hotel California), the Eagles may not have been the success they became, and that we will never know, only speculate.
I saw them at the Coop arena on June 8th. My thoughts are: 1- Don Henley was singing live. (He improvised during Desperado) 2- Joe Walsh did not sing live during the accappla start to Seven Bridges Road. He mimed. He also mimed on the high note on In The City. He did sing live on other solo numbers (Lifes Been Good) but if you heard his voice you'd understand why he mimed on the other songs. Joe didn't perform Pretty Maids which I suspect is because he can't sing that high anymore and his miming is not that great. 3- All the other members sang live. Of course I could be wrong. Don Henley might have practised miming to perfection but if it was a previous live performance you'd think he would have picked a better one. Besides the above it was a great show however I think I am done with large venues. The show was very synchronized. All a bit Las Vegas. The same show as 4 years earlier. Too expensive. Tickets are ridiculous prices to the same show over and over. And it might not be their last UK performance even though it's billed as The Long Goodbye tour. They could well say goodbye again. Love The Eagles, love Don Henley but that's it for me.
Acoustics in large venues are ALWAYS sub-par, and you watch the performance on a screen from a huge distance. That should equate to “discount” in my book.
The music is live but the vocals are occasionally piped in. Same as the last KISS tour. Welcome to three years ago when we noticed it. They were doing it on the last tour too.
Saw the Eagles last week in here in Holland. Kind of had the feeling they were miming at least some of the time. They certainly made it clear no filming was allowed. Actually I thought their opening act which was the Doobie Brothers put on a better show and seemed to be enjoying themselves a lot more too.
You might want to check out his performance of desperado on the Howard Stern show, it is sung live, but a full step down, so he can actually hit the Notes.
Yes. The concert version is original pitch and Don clearly can't manage that now. I'm a musician and am quite happy to transpose songs to suit singers. Must be vanity that he doesn't want to sing Desperado a whole lower on stage - the band would easily be able to adapt to that.
I mentioned this in a previous video.....that's why the fact he's put it back up a tone is suspicious!! That was about 15 years ago too.....it's much easier to sing in F!
I don't know why this is such a surprise to anyone. A lot of 'established' bands/singers often use some method to 'enhance' the live performance, using autotune, backing tracks, backing vocals or indeed miming to previously recorded tracks. Of course many groups also don't do this, then we either marvel at how good they still are...or we crucify them for being crap.
There are a few videos here on YT that prove Henley has been miming to the same, pitch corrected, recording since 2018. I think there was a 2015 video where Henley could no longer hit the high notes, something that happens to most singers as they age.
After I saw wings of Pegasus video I was like,. OK maybe he just did that on occasion when his voice was strained or something. I mean it's one of his most famous songs and probably the most personal to him. I'd understand that. But I have seen several since then and it seems like he is doing it as a regular thing.
Fifty years later, you expect otherwise? Don Henley is 76 years old, for God sake. I'm 69 and I have trouble getting up out of bed and walking with the arthritis in my foot.
That's interesting, I haven't compared anything except Desperado....I was still wanting to believe it might be sung live (not that I thought it probably was!!!)...you've confirmed what I suspected!!
@@iamtjwalker but the backing vocals? Crikey! Even “And still those voices are calling from far away”. 😕 I used Moises (app) to isolate the vocal (s) and lined them up in GarageBand. It’s super obvious. I wonder what is left actually live… I know Vince Gill, apparently, doesn’t use in-ears so it would be interesting to compare three different versions of ‘Take it to the limit’. I wonder also if all of these shenanigans had any bearing on Deacon’s mysterious departure previously. Speculating……. Not only did the make him dress up as his dad, then limit him to three songs and make him fake the rest.
Gotta love the stages of grief the diehard Henley defenders are going through. Denial eventually morphs into justification. “He’s definitely not faking. But also… if he IS faking, so what? Everybody does it? I knew all the time that he was faking, you see, and it never bothered me, so why do you keep going on about it?”
in the other video, you remarked about how much better the sound was when the Eagles came on compared to the Doobie Brothers. Isn't it usually the case that sound is better when it's recorded? When you said that, I immediately figured it was prerecorded
Cliff Richard does the same. He waggles his earpiece when he needs to switch to track. Took me a while to realise when I saw him live. At his age it’s understandable.
I was speaking my mate about this. He saw the eagles about 20 years ago And was high up the the stands , not far from the side of the stage. He reckons there was another live band playing behind a screen on stage at the same time the eagles were on!! So are they even the ones playing the ‘live’ music
Many bands bring in "touring" musicians..... Fleetwood Mac.... Queen.... To name but 2......some are more prominent than others.... But the "members" of the band are front and centre..... Extra musicians are required to produce the sound of the quality on the album.. Which is multi-track recorded....
Hah! the Rolling Stones had keyboard ' backup' players behind the amps, way back in the seventies. There's nothing new about this, it's just the extent of the deception, or more correctly just where do they draw the line between performing and acting.
@@davechapman5815 Nobody has any objection to the addition of touring musicians to augment the core members of a band. That’s not what we are talking about here. The only reason you would deliberately HIDE those musicians and pretend that they don’t exist, rather than allow them to enjoy the credit they deserve (ie, what every honest and honorable touring artist who requires additional musicians does in this situation), is if you feel you have something to hide. It’s plainly fraudulent.
I saw them about 5 or 6 years ago in Brisbane, having previously seen them in 1975 and 1994. The first two were by far the best concerts I've ever been to, but the Brissy one was different - due to the absence of Frey and Felder. It was evident to me that Henley was very subdued throughout while Walsh dominated the entire 2nd half of the show (which I found somewhat disappointing as his songs were not Eagles level). Still a good concert but not a patch on the earlier ones. I certainly wouldn't pay to see them 'live' again as I'm more than happy just to listen to their brilliant studio recordings.
If you wanted to hear the Eagles in concert (when it was still possible), just put on the album. The music is exactly the same, so antiseptically reproduced, note for note, nuance for nuance, string bend for string bend, the only difference is that with the album, you don't get the delay you'd suffer from sitting 500 feet away, since to get any closer would cost you $1,000 a seat. Eagles concerts were numbingly boring.
Perhaps he only mimed a couple challenging songs and the rest were live. But it’s very clear (thanks to Phil) that at least one song was mimed. BTW - fantastic description of fattening up a vocal.
Let's just finally call it what it is - age and time affecting these brilliant singers, and their attempts to recreate their youthful, full voice. But it is still singing to a backing track, regardless of that fact. Here's one of the world's finest live sound men talking exactly about having to mix lip-syncing bands backing tracks live. th-cam.com/users/shortsCrj2JdFB2ME?si=ppnh6c3Qode_4dvt
Frankie Valli has also been miming for many years. People still pay scalper prices just to say they've been in the auditorium as him. A fool and his money is soon parted.
Of all the bands who could be accused of miming, I would think the Eagles to be the least expected of the lot. Henley's method is a high-skill, strong falsetto though and sometimes one of those few who can do it just lose it at some point (Fish of Marillion for example). I only saw one recording of Henley having a bad night and it was a Farm aid show where that upper range was just not there that night. It could be a game-time decision based on his health. I wonder if anyone other than Henley is facing those accusations in the band.
It's very difficult to keep the dream alive if your now aged vocal is compromised by possibly having been stretched over a lifetime of singing in loud bands/venues. Understandably, if you're offered a technical way out to avoid embarrassment in front of 1000s of people and have the punters continue funding your life style, you'll accept the use of technology to "improve" your "live" vocal delivery. However, you must be honest to the punters and yourself by owning up to the involvement of such technology in the performance. Thanks for the interesting demo on the vocal recording options available.
If Henley lip syncs at all, it’s only on Desperado. Which comes toward the end of the show and it’s nearly a capella and he’s in his ‘70s. Can you blame the guy for wanting some help sounding good under those conditions?
good comment . I like u lol. im a fan no matter what. DH contributed a lot in the music industry. his talent is no questionable. im glad he shared the talent that God showered him. there will be no one who will be a singer with the same voice like him. its only him who has that kind of voice. one of a kind. we just have to move on. the guy made a lit of beautiful songs & music. don't be personal with his attitude. I've been with lots of celebrities & he is not even close to the meanest celebrities.
Ha! I suspect the definition is similar to a British English dictionary......it's just pronounced correctly 😀 ps: I think American English is far more sensible than ours....color makes more sense than colour for example!!
He definitely mimed the vocal track. This is so disappointing to see Henley stoop to this. I love the eagles and have been a fan for 40 years, but you can't rip off the fans and get a free pass. Time for Don to come clean and refund the outrages ticket prices the Eagles have been charging.
I was at the CoOp show and found it difficult to tell by looking. Joe dlipped up a coyple of times. But my ears made me think the harmonies and singing was too GOOD at times. I also noticed that rarely were the cameras on close up on Don when he sang, where it was on orher members. Still enjoyed the night and new venue as a one off but miffed that the tickets cost so much. The Eagles didn't do a show like say Queen... they rarely spoke to the audience. No rapport, apart from the Joker, Joe Walsh. Enjoyed but not ecstatic about them.
This has been going for years. Henley is an embittered individual, who accuses TH-cam of denying him income. Yet he cleans out punters to the sum of 300 quid, for a mime show. He rightly needs to be exposed for the fraud that he is.
I'm only saying that I have definitive proof that he's miming on Desperado.....anything else would be speculation.....but it's not the highest or hardest song to sing in the set, and with all the other things like not being on the screen.....I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just the one song.
Some people can't stop their mouths from talking shite. I appreciate die-hard fans can't be swayed cos their belief system would collapse if they were to admit to themselves what's obvious to every other human with functioning ears and eyes.
@@ericmarshall963 Thanks. I hope that's right. It would be terrible if people were paying good money to see a touring band where nobody is actually singing.
I have a ticket show for the Eagles in Sphere this Sept. I think with the experienced, I think they will not do such thing. I paid $579.00 for 1 seat. I still love the songs they played. mine is not personal.. I like them esp DH coz his voice is unique ..one of a kind . I think they learned their lessons already. let's give him the benefit of the doubt
The question: is an Eagles performance a recital, a concert, or a 'show'? There are different expectations for each, but most entertainers will say they're putting on a show. There are plenty of reasons but most involve fan experience and money. It's Henley's voice, he's on stage. Not like Millie Vanilli, where Rob and Morvan were miming the vocals of 5 other singers. Ditto for Madonna, there was a big upset 25 years ago when she was using recorded vocals for the dance-intensive parts of her performances; she went back to the studio and recorded new versions of the songs specifically for the live show. Her voice, her dancing, her show. Now... I understand there are folks who expect that ancient musicians perform their shows as recitals - everything is live and direct, and that is not unreasonable for many genres or artists, but there are acts that cannot perform live the songs they created in the studio with additional musicians. So do we use tracks, or put additional live players off stage, unseen, but performing without recognition or acknowledgement? A show is more like theater - sets, lights, video, sound - to tell the story of the songs as the artist wants them presented. If some of the elements are not 100% live, it's not a big deal if those elements are part of the storytelling. For myself, I find little value in the moral indignation and more in "how does this hold up after 40 or 50 years"?
If I want to listen to a pre-recording of an artist I'll listen to Spotify or w/e If I pay to go see them live I expect them to actually be live. IMHO charging for a LIVE concert then playing pre-recordings without expressly saying that's what you are doing beforehand is tantamount to fraudulent
Should there be a disclosure requirement on tickets expressing that parts of performance will not be performed live? If so, what would happen to ticket sales? If people have been deceived into believing that vocals would be live when they are not, is there financial recourse available to them?
If you're paying money to see these clowns 30 years after they said they'd play their "final shows" then having an 80 year-old rock singer mime his performance is the least of your problems.
Given how over zealous Don is with regard to YT cover content , I would have thought, as is the American way, litigation would be raining down on anyone who defamed him by suggesting malpractice in a supposedly live situation. As this has not been the case I would take that as evidence for the prosecution!
There are “tribute” bands for just about every major group from the 1960s through 1970s. These tribute bands often sound (and some times look) so much like the original bands during their peak that it’s uncanny. I go see these tribute bands perform great live shows for a fraction of the cost of going to a performance of what is left of the original band where they sound band or fake it. I have a great time at these concerts and so does the entire audience.
If they're miming, hopefully they're piping in Glen Fry's voice also. The Eagles should have retired after Glen's passing. Their best songs had him singing.
Just wanted to respond to the comments as people either didn't understand what I was saying or commented without actually watching.....I'm done now.....hopefully!
So, if one guy is going to be miming to a pre-recorded vocal track, don't all the other guys have to be constantly careful to maintain a speed that'll match with the cadence of the pre-recorded vocal, so that they don't either lag behind or get out ahead? I would think that would kill the spontaneity of the whole performance, and I'd think the other guys would revolt! P.S. Have either Don or the Eagles come forth and addressed this issue?
I saw the Eagles in Holland Gelredome. THERE WAS ONLY 1 ORIGINAL EAGLE, Don Henley the most unlikeable one. The band with 7/8 hired musicians sounds so different, totally not like the real Eagles. Singing was VERY BAD, it wasn't real, it was imitated poorly. Joe Walsh and Timothy were ok, but the rest was a shame, sorry to say. WE MISSED THE AMAZING VOICE OF RANDY AND THE GUITARPLAYERS BERNIE,DON FELDER!! Even Don Frey. (also unlikeable person). THE EAGLES SOUND DIED WHEN THEY LEFT THE BAND!! They should never have done this. They have now ended up badly.
@TJ I think they would justify it by saying 'we want to give the punters the full Eagles experience' and if they especially Don are getting past the point of being able to hit those notes show after show they would consider that not delivering the full experience. Just my 2c
Henley mimes because he sued himself and can no longer play Eagles music.
😆
😂😂
Of course! Makes total sense.😂
LMAO! Good one! 😄😄😄😄
I just went to watch Roger Daltrey with his solo band. 80 years old. Totally live, mistakes, false starts and all. Voice still sounds like Roger, no mistaking. You can tell where he changes some parts and arrangements to suit his range now, which is not an issue at all. The only thing he won't do is the scream in Won't Get Fooled Again, which he explains before they start the song that it is just too hard on his voice now. So he's turned it into an audience participation part letting the crowd do it instead. Better than lip syncing it if you ask me...
Roger Daltrey remains a class act who has maintained his integrity. He handles the way his natural voice is today with honesty and that should earn him the great respect and appreciation of the audience. Artists who refuse to "go with the flow" and use miming or pitch correction, autotune or AI to change their natural voice should make this known at their live performances and on their recordings.
Yes, Springsteen has done a similar thing for years, dropping the key and/or having the backup singers fill in. I'll take that kind of honesty.
Wings of Pegasus has done an in-depth vocal analysis. There is incontrovertible evidence they lip synced at a number of shows. There is ZERO doubt.
Yep....you don't need to go to that level to tell as just matching them up you can hear it's the same vocal.....but I'm glad he did as it proves it beyond doubt!
Yes, that was a great video. Honestly, was sort of shocked that somehow Henley didn't try to get it taken down.
@@marksaleski9890 Oh don't worry. He won't just let it go.
I am a recording engineer, I’ve seen the footage. He is miming. Along with Mötley Crüe and many others.
... and apparently KISS has also been miming, according to many.
@@M_Lev___ for sure
Good job, pretty conclusive I feel.
“It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled”
Great comment :)
Great quote.....applicable to so many things!
But I won't get fooled again.
H ello from America. I'm nearly 70 .. ugh! ... but I was young when the best music was made and concerts were real. I loved John Denver and saw him everytime he was on tour. He actually hired Elvis' band after Elvis faked his death. But during one song a string broke on his guitar, he gestered to the band to stop, asked for a string which he did himself, then tuned the guitar and said let's try that again. Barry Manilow... fabulous live ... was at the piano and missed a note on Mandy, quickly pinched his throat and said, oops, and started again. Elton John burned the house down. His only prop was he had a monitor for the words, which I certainly couldn't remember them all .. the late 1990s. The country group Alabama, four guys, one savant, Jeff. I saw them two or three times a year, they were fabulous. After Phil's video came out, I read where somebody paid $2500 for 1 ticket to see them here in America and boy, was he angry. He could have stayed home and listened to the CD. I saw them live in I think 1979, the hotel California tour. They were fabulous. Jimmy buffet opened for them. Joe Walsh had everyone up on their feet to Rocky Mt way ... even the ushers. I'm a single mom and have no.other living relatives, but my son loved Metallica, still does, I bought him 2 floor seat tickets in advance for graduation. They were $400 each. Worth every penny. They played in the round. And he ran to where the area was blocked off for them to walk to the stage. He was talking to one of the roadies he recognized from a CD cover, and basically stood 10 ft away from James Hatfield, who threw him a guitar pick. He bought 2 t shirts, and I parked across the street. I had a suv and it literally was rocking. I thought the roof was going to fly off and the coliseum was going straight into space. No tracks. No miming. My son still says today one of the best days of his life. He and the guy who came with him were both fast asleep 10 minutes after we got on the interstate for the 2 hr drive home. It saddens me those wonderful days of concerts are gone and replaced with technology. Sorry you had negative responses for telling the truth. Sorry for the long response. Take care Patricia
Please stop telling people I faked my death. My neighbors saw your comments and are asking me a lot of questions now.
@@kingofallwhites Lol!
@@kingofallwhites She has to be joking.....right?
@@kingofallwhites oops. Sorry. But it's your own damn fault. You have to learn to shut the window if you're gonna sing in the shower, and quit ordering peanut butter and bananas with your walmart delivery. Spread it out. TCB ...
@@kingofallwhites LOL!!! 😄😄😃😃🤣🤣😂😂😁😁😀😀😁😁
Long story short. Yes.
Yeh I watched him sing desperado no backing and it was so good that I thought it was impossible to be that good.
I think the complaints are a distraction from the real issue. Charging £300 for a ticket (to watch them on a screen because you’re too far from the stage unless you’re lucky) and then making YOU go to Manchester to see them and all the cost that entails rather than actually touring the country. Support your local bands.
I've seen one good local band in the last 25 years. And that was back in 2002. And I was 10.
Yep cost us nearly 1000 with travel, tickets and hotel. I enjoyed it but felt ripped off. Queen do a far better show with Adam Lambert.
I want my live music have a lot of imperfections.
Not necessarily imperfections but I get what you're saying. At one point a musician whose name I can't recall right now said it best. He said it's not music if it's not played a different way every single time.
If its the case that they are miming throughout a live gig then I think the audience, who have paid to see a live gig, deserve a full refund
Why? If you can't tell the difference without close examination, you're still being entertained and getting your money's worth.
The most disturbing thing about all this is people paying to see clapped-out octogenairians play tired old 'hits' for the zillionth time. Yawn.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Well yea, if you are fine with paying to see something that you are not actually getting and the con has bypassed you then by all means carry on. When I pay to see a live band, thats what I am expecting. Not someone pretending at playing live. As for your other point. Clapped out octogenarians like to go and watch clapped out octogenarians. And yea a lot of them probably wouldn't notice that it was being mimed.
With what tickets cost for an Eagles concert, I'd be furious. Joe Walsh was in New Zealand in April and he sang for free and he sang live.
It explains why the Eagles are one of the strictest bands when it comes to copyright.
Good job trying to show people what's happening with your example at the end.
Nice singing. (I'm a musician, too)
I’m 13 and honestly I’m not even sure I want to know. I love that band so damn much. I’ve been saving for years and finally saved enough and got tickets myself and my parents. They were like a grand. I don’t know what to think but I love them so much and have been raised on music from the best time in history.
me too no matter what they said about DH I still like him & his music. he is multi talented & u can count in your fingers a drummer & at the same time he is singing while playing the drums
Good point about the double tracking.
Since it is ridiculously expensive to go to concerts these days the least thing one could demand is that the perfomers sing live. For many years it's been obvious that artists who move around a lot while singing often mime, since it's very hard to sing well and dance at the same time, but nowadays it seems like more or less everyone is miming. Another common trick is that they have a secret singer back stage who does the real singing, while the star mimes his or her vocal. But as long as people are prepared to pay for the charade it will go on.
Good to see you've come to the logical conclusion. Question remains to what extent Don and the other guys lip sync. I don't think Vince did much unless he sang over some of the pre-recorded choruses.
Interesting to see how they'll cover this up at The Sphere. I don't see them policing the cell phones to the extent that they have. I did see them go into the audience at a U2 show to tell a guy to stop vaping. No close ups of Don singing on those 16K resolution big screens. We'll see.
As much as people pay to go see these over the hill bands,with maybe one or two original member’s,everything they play should be live.
Great Marcel Marceau reference. I haven’t thought about that cat in years!
Lip Sync is just a modern variant of the original term of miming.
Fun Fact - the term Lip Sync came from the film industry.
I didn't know that! I'm surprised so many people get annoyed that I'm using the word miming!!
Milli Vanilli … all is forgiven.
I’ve watched my videos back from night 2 and it’s more than bloody obvious somethings going on. Also I uploaded one to instagram and it got copyrighted so it had to be a recording.
Someone should sue Don Henley, with one of those mass cases for not providing live vocals, whatever those cases are called. Hit him with his own medicine. I'd pay to go see his sentencing before I'd pay to see a concert.
Hi Tom, as you know I have been singing my skinny ass off for decades, and can totally back up what you are saying, and as you also know, I have worked as a live vocal coach on many major tours by major artists, and I hate to destroy the myth that all of these fabulous artists that people love don't mime/lip sync, but I can assure that they do, and this is from someone who has spent hundreds of hours standing next to the sound engineers at these gigs. The only one who I have been present at next to the sound engineer that hasn't used lipsync/miming, or lowered the key of the songs because they are not able to sing the way they did 20, 30, 40 yrs ago, was Michael McDonald.
Oh and Paul Weller and Elvis Costello too...
Michael McDonald with the Doobies was the support for the Eagles when I saw them. He absolutely was not miming.....phenomenal.....I was disappointed that Steely Dan had to pull out, but when I found out that MM was there with the Doobies it more than made up for it. The only other singer I know who is that good it Papa Dee!!
I was too busy vibing and enjoying the music when I saw the Eagles. I know for sure Vince Gill’s mic was ON, and that’s all I care about.
Vince was singing live I have no doubt.....he's incredible!
Love the Teac
when i follow an artists career for decades i WANT to hear the changes that come with age and how the performer adjusts their singing and playing to accommodate these inevitable changes .
Joni mitchell is a good example .she eliminated certain high notes and slowed the tempo down which gave her more time to recover in between lyrics . it was all very beautiful .,
her later version of both sides now with its slow and haunting background is as good if not better than the original .
that said i WANT a real live performance with no pitch correction and other electronic sht when i go to a live concert . a lot of these artists need to stop pretending they are still young and give a performance that is honest and beautiful in its own way .
I’m a drummer, I first discovered this watching a couple eagles DVDs with dad. There was a drum fill from the speakers yet he never moved his hands from the hat/snare.
They would have been more careful than that. He is miming, but I think you’re hearing another percussionist/2nd drummer on stage.
Maybe the concert should have been advertised more honestly as ‘The Eagles Faking It Live’
I'm not a musician but I suspected something when I watched them on their second night. When Henley was 'singing' you could see it was out of sync on the screen. Everyone else it was in sync. BUT if he feels he can't sing anymore what's the alternative? No tour? It was still a fantastic gig and I can say I saw the Eagles. I'd see it again. Miming included.
Um, reducing ticket prices for a lesser performance?
They could change the key to allow him to hit the notes, if that's the problem, or he could sing those lines lower. Other artists do this when they get older. Or they could drop the song from the set. Or have somebody else sing it. And if those last two seem like they'd be cheating the audience of something they specifically came to see, then I'd argue they're less a cheat than having the guy mime his performance.
It's not like he needs the money. Just shows he has no integrity, and it is and always has been about the money. I'm a big fan of the Eagles, love the music and songs. I used to be a fan of the Eagles and all it's members, especially Glenn. But now, after knowing what they are like as people, I'm a fan of Don Felder, Randy was great, and Joe is cool, love his stuff. I wouldn't stop to help Don Henley and Glenn is dead. There is one other long time Eagle that never gets mentioned, yet is very instrumental in the success of the Eagles. And without Felder (the genius behind Hotel California), the Eagles may not have been the success they became, and that we will never know, only speculate.
Its ok to pay through the nose for a recorded performance?
Um yeah..no tour. If the Eagles can’t perform, it follows that the Eagles can’t tour.
Good for you sir!
I saw them at the Coop arena on June 8th. My thoughts are:
1- Don Henley was singing live. (He improvised during Desperado)
2- Joe Walsh did not sing live during the accappla start to Seven Bridges Road. He mimed.
He also mimed on the high note on In The City. He did sing live on other solo numbers (Lifes Been Good) but if you heard his voice you'd understand why he mimed on the other songs. Joe didn't perform Pretty Maids which I suspect is because he can't sing that high anymore and his miming is not that great.
3- All the other members sang live.
Of course I could be wrong. Don Henley might have practised miming to perfection but if it was a previous live performance you'd think he would have picked a better one.
Besides the above it was a great show however I think I am done with large venues. The show was very synchronized. All a bit Las Vegas. The same show as 4 years earlier. Too expensive. Tickets are ridiculous prices to the same show over and over.
And it might not be their last UK performance even though it's billed as The Long Goodbye tour. They could well say goodbye again. Love The Eagles, love Don Henley but that's it for me.
I was convinced it was all live until I got home!!
Acoustics in large venues are ALWAYS sub-par, and you watch the performance on a screen from a huge distance. That should equate to “discount” in my book.
The music is live but the vocals are occasionally piped in. Same as the last KISS tour. Welcome to three years ago when we noticed it. They were doing it on the last tour too.
There has to be at least a click track for the drums to keep sync with the vocal recording.
Thanks for your interesting video. It is clear miming has been used for quite some time which I find disappointing but not surprising.
Saw the Eagles last week in here in Holland. Kind of had the feeling they were miming at least some of the time. They certainly made it clear no filming was allowed. Actually I thought their opening act which was the Doobie Brothers put on a better show and seemed to be enjoying themselves a lot more too.
You might want to check out his performance of desperado on the Howard Stern show, it is sung live, but a full step down, so he can actually hit the Notes.
Yes. The concert version is original pitch and Don clearly can't manage that now. I'm a musician and am quite happy to transpose songs to suit singers. Must be vanity that he doesn't want to sing Desperado a whole lower on stage - the band would easily be able to adapt to that.
I mentioned this in a previous video.....that's why the fact he's put it back up a tone is suspicious!! That was about 15 years ago too.....it's much easier to sing in F!
I don't know why this is such a surprise to anyone. A lot of 'established' bands/singers often use some method to 'enhance' the live performance, using autotune, backing tracks, backing vocals or indeed miming to previously recorded tracks. Of course many groups also don't do this, then we either marvel at how good they still are...or we crucify them for being crap.
There are a few videos here on YT that prove Henley has been miming to the same, pitch corrected, recording since 2018. I think there was a 2015 video where Henley could no longer hit the high notes, something that happens to most singers as they age.
yes
Very interesting you proved a point a great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Good job!
Eagles: good old corporate rock.
found this really interesting
After I saw wings of Pegasus video I was like,. OK maybe he just did that on occasion when his voice was strained or something. I mean it's one of his most famous songs and probably the most personal to him. I'd understand that. But I have seen several since then and it seems like he is doing it as a regular thing.
I bought a Tokai 'Les Paul' guitar in the early 2000's from a man in Cardiff & he said that he saw The Eagles live but they were too perfect! 🤔
BTW, the Tokai is miming an actual Gibson. Does a damn good job of it, too.
Fifty years later, you expect otherwise? Don Henley is 76 years old, for God sake. I'm 69 and I have trouble getting up out of bed and walking with the arthritis in my foot.
I’ve done the same analysis on three versions of Hotel California.
Guess what?
Identical, even the ‘answer’ backing vocals!
That's interesting, I haven't compared anything except Desperado....I was still wanting to believe it might be sung live (not that I thought it probably was!!!)...you've confirmed what I suspected!!
@@iamtjwalker but the backing vocals?
Crikey!
Even “And still those voices are calling from far away”. 😕
I used Moises (app) to isolate the vocal (s) and lined them up in GarageBand.
It’s super obvious.
I wonder what is left actually live…
I know Vince Gill, apparently, doesn’t use in-ears so it would be interesting to compare three different versions of ‘Take it to the limit’.
I wonder also if all of these shenanigans had any bearing on Deacon’s mysterious departure previously.
Speculating…….
Not only did the make him dress up as his dad, then limit him to three songs and make him fake the rest.
Gotta love the stages of grief the diehard Henley defenders are going through. Denial eventually morphs into justification. “He’s definitely not faking. But also… if he IS faking, so what? Everybody does it? I knew all the time that he was faking, you see, and it never bothered me, so why do you keep going on about it?”
in the other video, you remarked about how much better the sound was when the Eagles came on compared to the Doobie Brothers. Isn't it usually the case that sound is better when it's recorded? When you said that, I immediately figured it was prerecorded
Don Henley and his minions don't have the right to copyright strike transformative content. They're just really good at bullying people.
Yes they were, been doing it for years. You pays your money, you takes your choice.
It's indisputable he's miming. Anyone saying otherwise is a fool.
It’s a shame but I loved it anyway. Fantastic concert.
So did I! I'm glad I went.....I thought it was all live until I got home!!
There are hardly any who don't mime.. The younger act do it all the time.. Nobody complains about that..
Miming is just a live musicians viagra for older artists. It gets you through the night and everyone ends up happy.
Cliff Richard does the same. He waggles his earpiece when he needs to switch to track. Took me a while to realise when I saw him live. At his age it’s understandable.
I was speaking my mate about this. He saw the eagles about 20 years ago And was high up the the stands , not far from the side of the stage. He reckons there was another live band playing behind a screen on stage at the same time the eagles were on!! So are they even the ones playing the ‘live’ music
Having extra musicians playing either on, or offstage is a very common practice.
Many bands bring in "touring" musicians..... Fleetwood Mac.... Queen.... To name but 2......some are more prominent than others.... But the "members" of the band are front and centre..... Extra musicians are required to produce the sound of the quality on the album.. Which is multi-track recorded....
Hah! the Rolling Stones had keyboard ' backup' players behind the amps, way back in the seventies. There's nothing new about this, it's just the extent of the deception, or more correctly just where do they draw the line between performing and acting.
@@davechapman5815 Nobody has any objection to the addition of touring musicians to augment the core members of a band. That’s not what we are talking about here. The only reason you would deliberately HIDE those musicians and pretend that they don’t exist, rather than allow them to enjoy the credit they deserve (ie, what every honest and honorable touring artist who requires additional musicians does in this situation), is if you feel you have something to hide. It’s plainly fraudulent.
I saw them about 5 or 6 years ago in Brisbane, having previously seen them in 1975 and 1994. The first two were by far the best concerts I've ever been to, but the Brissy one was different - due to the absence of Frey and Felder. It was evident to me that Henley was very subdued throughout while Walsh dominated the entire 2nd half of the show (which I found somewhat disappointing as his songs were not Eagles level). Still a good concert but not a patch on the earlier ones. I certainly wouldn't pay to see them 'live' again as I'm more than happy just to listen to their brilliant studio recordings.
The ONLY performer who doesn't do this foolishness is P!NK. She actually sings her songs LIVE, even while hanging upside down.
If Don were miming upside down then I wouldn't mind at all!
If you wanted to hear the Eagles in concert (when it was still possible), just put on the album. The music is exactly the same, so antiseptically reproduced, note for note, nuance for nuance, string bend for string bend, the only difference is that with the album, you don't get the delay you'd suffer from sitting 500 feet away, since to get any closer would cost you $1,000 a seat. Eagles concerts were numbingly boring.
A lot of people sign along with pre-recorded tracks. Two famous ones are Michael & Janet Jackson.
That's called karaoke.
Perhaps he only mimed a couple challenging songs and the rest were live. But it’s very clear (thanks to Phil) that at least one song was mimed.
BTW - fantastic description of fattening up a vocal.
Desperado is challenging?😂😂😂😂😂😂
Let's just finally call it what it is - age and time affecting these brilliant singers, and their attempts to recreate their youthful, full voice. But it is still singing to a backing track, regardless of that fact. Here's one of the world's finest live sound men talking exactly about having to mix lip-syncing bands backing tracks live. th-cam.com/users/shortsCrj2JdFB2ME?si=ppnh6c3Qode_4dvt
Has anyone ever asked them in an interview about them miming.
Frankie Valli has also been miming for many years. People still pay scalper prices just to say they've been in the auditorium as him. A fool and his money is soon parted.
correct. I watched Maria Carey sang " Ill be there" & it was a lipsycn. same as Freddy Mercury sing" the show must go on" same .. lipsync too.
I’d love to hear a journalist ask Henley about this.
Me too!
I can tell you his answer ", that's it, interview is over!" Then he'd go stomping off😂
@@samspurgeon4222 😂😂
Of all the bands who could be accused of miming, I would think the Eagles to be the least expected of the lot. Henley's method is a high-skill, strong falsetto though and sometimes one of those few who can do it just lose it at some point (Fish of Marillion for example). I only saw one recording of Henley having a bad night and it was a Farm aid show where that upper range was just not there that night. It could be a game-time decision based on his health. I wonder if anyone other than Henley is facing those accusations in the band.
It's very difficult to keep the dream alive if your now aged vocal is compromised by possibly having been stretched over a lifetime of singing in loud bands/venues. Understandably, if you're offered a technical way out to avoid embarrassment in front of 1000s of people and have the punters continue funding your life style, you'll accept the use of technology to "improve" your "live" vocal delivery. However, you must be honest to the punters and yourself by owning up to the involvement of such technology in the performance. Thanks for the interesting demo on the vocal recording options available.
If Henley lip syncs at all, it’s only on Desperado. Which comes toward the end of the show and it’s nearly a capella and he’s in his ‘70s. Can you blame the guy for wanting some help sounding good under those conditions?
yes
good comment . I like u lol. im a fan no matter what. DH contributed a lot in the music industry. his talent is no questionable. im glad he shared the talent that God showered him. there will be no one who will be a singer with the same voice like him. its only him who has that kind of voice. one of a kind. we just have to move on. the guy made a lit of beautiful songs & music. don't be personal with his attitude. I've been with lots of celebrities & he is not even close to the meanest celebrities.
Anyone who wants to hear the Eagles really live should listen to their concert "Eagles live at the Capital centre 1977". Their best edition by far.
Which was heavily overdubbed and fixed (as was Hell Freezes Over)
@@BROKENBOILER1 I agree but at least no auto-tune and modern editing tools back then:)
OK well, I looked up aluminum in the American Websters dictionary so there.
Ha! I suspect the definition is similar to a British English dictionary......it's just pronounced correctly 😀 ps: I think American English is far more sensible than ours....color makes more sense than colour for example!!
He definitely mimed the vocal track. This is so disappointing to see Henley stoop to this. I love the eagles and have been a fan for 40 years, but you can't rip off the fans and get a free pass. Time for Don to come clean and refund the outrages ticket prices the Eagles have been charging.
Its rock and roll its all about the money (frank would faint)
I would want to be paid £300 to go and see the eagles
I was at the CoOp show and found it difficult to tell by looking. Joe dlipped up a coyple of times. But my ears made me think the harmonies and singing was too GOOD at times. I also noticed that rarely were the cameras on close up on Don when he sang, where it was on orher members. Still enjoyed the night and new venue as a one off but miffed that the tickets cost so much. The Eagles didn't do a show like say Queen... they rarely spoke to the audience. No rapport, apart from the Joker, Joe Walsh. Enjoyed but not ecstatic about them.
This has been going for years. Henley is an embittered individual, who accuses TH-cam of denying him income. Yet he cleans out punters to the sum of 300 quid, for a mime show. He rightly needs to be exposed for the fraud that he is.
Oh dear, the internet brings out the armchair experts, or not. Phil’s video is pretty damning, as you indeed discovered by matching it your self.
Is the contention he mimes throughout the whole concert or just certain songs?
I'm only saying that I have definitive proof that he's miming on Desperado.....anything else would be speculation.....but it's not the highest or hardest song to sing in the set, and with all the other things like not being on the screen.....I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just the one song.
Some people can't stop their mouths from talking shite.
I appreciate die-hard fans can't be swayed cos their belief system would collapse if they were to admit to themselves what's obvious to every other human with functioning ears and eyes.
Was Don Henley the only Eagle that was miming?
Apparently Vince, Deacon and Joe’s vocals are live (apart from some high notes for Joe). I’m not sure about Tim.
@@ericmarshall963 Thanks. I hope that's right. It would be terrible if people were paying good money to see a touring band where nobody is actually singing.
I have a ticket show for the Eagles in Sphere this Sept. I think with the experienced, I think they will not do such thing. I paid $579.00 for 1 seat. I still love the songs they played. mine is not personal.. I like them esp DH coz his voice is unique ..one of a kind
. I think they learned their lessons already. let's give him the benefit of the doubt
The question: is an Eagles performance a recital, a concert, or a 'show'? There are different expectations for each, but most entertainers will say they're putting on a show. There are plenty of reasons but most involve fan experience and money. It's Henley's voice, he's on stage. Not like Millie Vanilli, where Rob and Morvan were miming the vocals of 5 other singers. Ditto for Madonna, there was a big upset 25 years ago when she was using recorded vocals for the dance-intensive parts of her performances; she went back to the studio and recorded new versions of the songs specifically for the live show. Her voice, her dancing, her show.
Now... I understand there are folks who expect that ancient musicians perform their shows as recitals - everything is live and direct, and that is not unreasonable for many genres or artists, but there are acts that cannot perform live the songs they created in the studio with additional musicians. So do we use tracks, or put additional live players off stage, unseen, but performing without recognition or acknowledgement? A show is more like theater - sets, lights, video, sound - to tell the story of the songs as the artist wants them presented. If some of the elements are not 100% live, it's not a big deal if those elements are part of the storytelling.
For myself, I find little value in the moral indignation and more in "how does this hold up after 40 or 50 years"?
If I want to listen to a pre-recording of an artist I'll listen to Spotify or w/e
If I pay to go see them live I expect them to actually be live.
IMHO charging for a LIVE concert then playing pre-recordings without expressly saying that's what you are doing beforehand is tantamount to fraudulent
Should there be a disclosure requirement on tickets expressing that parts of performance will not be performed live? If so, what would happen to ticket sales? If people have been deceived into believing that vocals would be live when they are not, is there financial recourse available to them?
think they will not do it again. ill be watching their concert this sept 21 ill be the 1st one to let u guys know 😊
He probably was when I saw them at Wembley in 2019
If you're paying money to see these clowns 30 years after they said they'd play their "final shows" then having an 80 year-old rock singer mime his performance is the least of your problems.
Given how over zealous Don is with regard to YT cover content , I would have thought, as is the American way, litigation would be raining down on anyone who defamed him by suggesting malpractice in a supposedly live situation. As this has not been the case I would take that as evidence for the prosecution!
My thoughts exactly!
Don Vanilli.
There are “tribute” bands for just about every major group from the 1960s through 1970s. These tribute bands often sound (and some times look) so much like the original bands during their peak that it’s uncanny. I go see these tribute bands perform great live shows for a fraction of the cost of going to a performance of what is left of the original band where they sound band or fake it. I have a great time at these concerts and so does the entire audience.
But you don't get to see the real thing.
If they're miming, hopefully they're piping in Glen Fry's voice also. The Eagles should have retired after Glen's passing. Their best songs had him singing.
To me, it's ok if they mime a few tunes. Their music is still great and they are all getting old.
amen to that.😊
Why are you bothering answering non productive comments from some people I think your Eagle title song is brilliant where can I buy it lol
Glad you like the song! I should do a proper recording and release it!!
Wouldnt at all be surprised if they did that it's a don henley thing to do.
So you're just going to keep making videos about the Eagles miming? How many is this now?
Just wanted to respond to the comments as people either didn't understand what I was saying or commented without actually watching.....I'm done now.....hopefully!
I plan to play Hotel California at a festival soon. So sue me.
Youre really milking this now but im still watching lol
I know sorry!...but I wanted to respond to the last lot of comments.....people are still interested it seems!!!
Of course he’s miming, Fil has proven that. F the naysayers. 👍
So, if one guy is going to be miming to a pre-recorded vocal track, don't all the other guys have to be constantly careful to maintain a speed that'll match with the cadence of the pre-recorded vocal, so that they don't either lag behind or get out ahead? I would think that would kill the spontaneity of the whole performance, and I'd think the other guys would revolt! P.S. Have either Don or the Eagles come forth and addressed this issue?
There is a click track the other guys are following.
@@gmosc Thank you, gmosc. I suppose that's not so different from being bound by what the drummer in a band is doing.
Do you have a cat purring near a mic?
I suspect it's the auto focus motor on the camera you can hear......about 1 in 100K people seem to notice it😀
I saw the Eagles in Holland Gelredome. THERE WAS ONLY 1 ORIGINAL EAGLE, Don Henley the most unlikeable one. The band with 7/8 hired musicians sounds so different, totally not like the real Eagles. Singing was VERY BAD, it wasn't real, it was imitated poorly. Joe Walsh and Timothy were ok, but the rest was a shame, sorry to say. WE MISSED THE AMAZING VOICE OF RANDY AND THE GUITARPLAYERS BERNIE,DON FELDER!! Even Don Frey. (also unlikeable person). THE EAGLES SOUND DIED WHEN THEY LEFT THE BAND!! They should never have done this. They have now ended up badly.
@TJ I think they would justify it by saying 'we want to give the punters the full Eagles experience' and if they especially Don are getting past the point of being able to hit those notes show after show they would consider that not delivering the full experience. Just my 2c
Then they should be upfront about what's really going on.
😮