@@mObbMD Renounce warlock is similar in idea, but Lunacy is far less drastic. You are guaranteed late game spells with tempo discounts. There should be a way to make a legit deck by having a minion based win condition and pivoting early anti aggro spells into late game potential with Lunacy, but for most people a full on random deck is fun I suppose and it's a trial and error head scratcher to make it legit.
The most interesting one is Arena... I am pretty sure there is less gold (but you do get stuff like packs) which is obviously bad if you want to play Arena... but you do get exp in Arena where before you got nothing (though quest no longer giving gold probably sucks quite a bit... and it is especially annoying if you are at like 140 gold or something as earning that 10 gold you need isn't always easy with the new system)
Just watch the hearthstone mathematics video on it. th-cam.com/video/YbnBolNJhYA/w-d-xo.html The breakdown got some flaws, but there are serious issues with the new system and Trump would never adress that in fear of losing his sponsorship and being blacklisted, just like most big streamers. The system is really bad for way more than 1% of the players. The slow progress from lvl 20 onwards is very demotivating, especially the stupid packs. They should hand out dust instead imo. I really dislike that the quest which grants the most xp is "win 7 ranked games". It forces me to play ranked which I dont enjoy at all. "Win 7 games in any mode" would be much better. I'm also getting far less than the promised 300 xp/h in battlegrounds. Everybody knows that they made a corporate move to force the players to invest more money into the game. If you play less than 7 hours of HS per day the new system is worse for you in the long run.
@@ollih.901 He actually did. Two or three vods ago he spent 3-4 HOURS counting every thing part of the new system on stream, live. That HS mathematics video is actually pretty bad btw, not much better than the reddit calculations.
@@anonofyesterday4650 It definitely got its flaws, but the major point of the video is still valid and that is the small xp gain by playing. Since I am playing HS myself I can check the reward track and it got a really annoying bug. Something most people probably dont recognize is that you sometimes dont get the xp immediately, but have to resatart HS. That hurts calculating in general. Yesterday I got lvl 23, I needed 3100 xp which is about 3 1000 xp quests which equals 3 60 gold quests in the past. I would rather have 180 gold instead of a pack. I also dislike ranked, therefore the 7 wins in ranked quest should be 7 wins in any mode imo. I also prefer gold and dust over old packs. The worst part is that the new system demotivates me. The slow progression from lvl 20 onwards is tedious. And getting a bit of gold for another arena run is impossible now. For me personally the new system is worse than the old system which already was really bad in comparison to other ccgs (like LoR or ESL).
@@anonofyesterday4650 imo you can't count the xp from achievments. First, it is super grindy and you must craft 17 legendarys for it. And several epics! Furthermore people still don't get daily/weekly quests, dont get xp in heroic duels mode and way less xp than the advertised 400 xp/h (its more like 240 for me and i am not an aggro player). But most of all, it feels absolutely terrible. Not getting anything for 4 days of playing. Getting old packs. Terrible daily quests. Rope bots. So no, the new system is not better... And the old system was already really bad!
I actually would really like a video to break down the math on the new system. I particularly like it for various reasons, but if at the end of the day I am actually getting more gold I’d want to see the math on how
What it kinda boils down to is time spent in the match. An aggro deck makes more gold with the old system, as you can cap very quickly. With the new system an aggro deck makes less per match, because you're now being rewarded closer to time spent playing, instead of strictly winning. Its also great for a newer player (like myself) because even if you lose you can still make progress to a reward. I know its not the "math" but at least I hope I helped with the last part of your comment :)
@@whirlwindsky The problem comes when people intentionally spend time to stall until the rope appears just to finesse the new reward system. Its not that fun to play against when your opponent doesn't do anything.
@@SunSunSunn okay but there's no point, you're just wasting both players time. while a longer game will get you more gold, completely two equal length games will do the same, there's no reason to stall.
I would also like to see the video to see how he's valuating the old packs, the epic, and the 2 legendaries that replace the free legendary and legendary quest chain. Also, beyond level 58 it's 4500xp for 150 gold, which is about 3 daily quests for 100 gold, while before that would have been at least 150 gold.
@@SunSunSunn The thing is stalling actually doesn't do anything. It rewards by hour spent in game. Playing 10 six minute game will reward the same amount as playing 5 twelve minute games. Stalling won't increase rewards, it will just increase the amount t of time wasted. Only dumb players will stall to earn more exp
I personally would love to see your math on the new reward system as all of Reddit's calculations say it's mostly worse. As a battlegrounds player, I'm honestly not too peeved by most of the changes.
I doubt he's gonna upload it to TH-cam, you're probably better off checking the vod on twitch. Just don't make any plans for the evening, let's just put it that way...
@@SuperSymn No need, it's garbage. Someone in chat literally says the new system is more work for roughly the same reward and Trump's response is "ehhhh (shrug)". For some reason he doesn't know you can't re-roll the win 7 games quest, because it's the only one and you will get it every week which is a horrible quest for casual players. Also I'm not sure because he was all over the place, but from what I saw he counted xp from playing, but didn't take into account the 10 gold for 3 wins into his calculations into the overall gold at the end of an expansion, but I'm not sure on that one since the vod is too long and at the end I was a bit checked out. Imagine if there was a better way of explaining it like maybe a video on TH-cam, oh, wait, there is, except every TH-cam video that did the calculations says it's worse.
@@NiramBG So the win 7 ranked games is "horrible for casual players" (because getting a single win every day on low ranks is hard, apparently) but getting all 100 daily gold from the 3 wins (which amounts to 30 victories, btw, around 4 times and a bit more than the quest) isnt? Cool
@@potatoesthelord Yes it is, because you didn't have to get wins before, you didn't have to play ranked before. All you had to do was once every 3 days for 30 min against a friend or randoms in casual and get the gold from your quests. Now according to Trump you have to login every day for at least an hour and play ranked. Most casual players aren't gonna do that. Hell most players have switched to Battlegrounds. A lot of people apparently don't remember but before the previous system had win quests as well, but those could be re-rolled and even still they got rid of them!
that happened to me last night, i was playing DH and the Druid played Pyro Yogg and game crashed.. i am unsure if i lost stars or not it's also been crashing with the 0 spells one when i'm the opponent
th-cam.com/video/YbnBolNJhYA/w-d-xo.html This channel does this sort of thing way better than Trump imo. He has to care about his sponsorship and income, therefore he probably cant speak freely on the topic, just like most big streamers. The breakdown got its flaws, but its still pretty good.
@@ollih.901 stop shilling this channel, people want to see Trump's take on it. You have no idea what you're talking about with the special interests, people criticizing the new system have been featured on the blizzard launcher with their critique videos.
I would be happy to see a video explaining mathematically why the new system is better. My issue as a F2P player is that you need to play a lot to get the rewards but playing a lot feels bad when you barely have any cards. And between the battlegrounds pass (which I will not be getting next expansion) and the lack of a steady flow of coins, I just have none of the new cards. Usually when an expansion starts, I've hoarded coins and I'm getting a lot of coins so I get a ton of packs and I wanna play more because I have so many decks I wanna play. But I couldn't do that this time around. So I'd like to see how mathematically, if you already did the work, it actually is better - and you should consider people that don't have enough time to play to get 30 wins a day.
Same here. Was mainly playing arena and doing quests on the side and still could safe up enough gold for at least one t1, t2 deck. Now my gold count doesn't really get any higher without several dailys so my motivation is gone.
@@AntoineBandele yea card games already have a lot of rng, and the goal to making good decks are to try and reduce the amount of rng as much as possible. Only, HS has mechanics like random targeting, discover, and random card generation, which means it's much more possible that an inexperienced player who played really poorly can still win against someone who built a good deck and played near perfectly. So yea, HS gets a lot of hate from card game fans for revelling in what everyone considers the worst flaw of card games, despite the fans wanting less rng.
It's not even that the game is too expensive _if you want to have ALL the cards._ That would be unreasonable. It's that the game is too expensive _if you want to have more than ONE standard deck._ That's a much bigger issue. The introduction of Duels only exasperated it, because there's this cool new mode that a lot of people would want to participate in, but it's virtually impossible to make a 15 card deck that synergizes with these specific hero powers without having extremely specific legendary cards. Like, you're not gonna make a Shaman deck without Gidra and Fireheart, that's just not happening. So we now live in a world where on the day of the expansion you can't really compete using old decks, because every expansion introduces ridiculous power spikes, but if you're a free-to-play player or a player who occasionally buys stuff but doesn't pay through their nose for the game, well, you either wait a couple of days for the meta to somewhat settle, which is insane because you're removing a huge chunk of the player-base from enjoying your game during its most crucial moment, or you hope you're lucky with the ONE DECK you can probably craft for the leftover dust from the previous expansion and it turns out to be good. It doesn't? Oh, well, sucks to be you, enjoy Battlegrounds for the next couple of weeks while ineffectively trying to get packs to create a different deck I guess? Which will suck, because as mentioned the one deck you were able to build is bad, so you're gonna be losing a lot, and losing just because your deck is bad ain't fun. A part of this issue is that bad cards rarely get changed which would allow people to turn them in for full dust cost. This creates a situation where only the people who lucked out or have a huuuge collection of cards get a return on their investment, the people that invested everything they had and it turned out to be a bust get completely shafted. Basically, it's a microcosm of why capitalism sucks for like the 99% of the people involved.
That's the worse about all this. The new reward system only gives gold in increments of 100/150. That would be fine starting out as you'll only ever be 50ish gold away from an arena. However going into this new system I had 95 gold ): Since there's no way to get 5-10 gold that gold is basically useless lol
Thanks for clarifying your position about the new system, I know some people seemed upset because you didn't make a video to talk about it, but that sums up well.
The reason for Demonic studies, really flexible, can get big cards, against control and small thing against aggro/midrange, but another is, if you run Khartut, tickatus actually get corrupted, because it costs 5
So from what I was seeing of the reward system... It's not that it's better or worse as a whole, it's that it shifts the rewards around in a fashion that incentivizes specific play patterns. Basically there are certain breakpoints where the previous system was better than the new one, and there are other breakpoints where the new one is better, which does sort of run counter to what blizzard was saying that "everybody gets more" out of the new system - if even a single person got less, that is, definitionally, not everybody.
blizzard never said everybody would get more, their quote is "we're not taking away gold, you would earn roughly the same or even more". Technically that is also wrong, because they took away gold and replaced it with other stuff. The issue with the new system is the sluggish progression really, and the scumminess of some of its features (like year of the dragon pack at level 48 that got removed, or the fact that the mega bundle did not include the tavern pass). What this mess did though was make everyone aware of how shit the economy of the game has always been.
im mad at blizzard not for the rewards im outraged for the ramp, sure the rewards give you a net gain more for adding to your collection but the time it takes to get these rewards are whack right now im at a point were one weekly quests wont even net me a full level
Friend of mine had to wait 5 days to finally do an arena because his rewards were first a pack and then the gold, he had to level up twice to do the content he wanted
@@dizzyspell8197 whiny people crying about a free game that is too expensive because they cant play his favorite streamer deck or be a meta slave with a deck with 31 legendaries to win 5 matches and drop the game
@@codenamezq8027 Did you watch the entire video before making this comment? Trump comments on this exact issue. I get the feeling that people are angry because other people are rather than actually feeling that way themselves. Hearthstone is an expensive game, it always has been.
I think what you're missing is how much they subverted the expactations of the community. They announced it as this big defining change people have been waiting for and then its barely better (if it even is).
The sadness I experienced when Trump won from the of Rod of Roasting..For the timeline that Trump had lost that game, that version of me was deeply deeply satisfied
Agreed. They shouldn’t have made it so you need to redeem them. It’s really obnoxious to have to navigate the clunky menu to redeem something that’s worthless. It would at least make sense if 1. It was only for the ones gave you xp/packs 2. All of them gave xp.
Less raw gold as rewards also means players can't direct their rewards toward their preferred packs, or to things like Arena. Maybe people end up a little bit ahead in dust value of cards. But the reward structure is bad, and at best is still bad, for a game whose expense grows. "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago with the OG Old Gods?" No, no you are not.
@@jaeusa160 I absolutely am. In the old gods days I HAD to spend money for packs every expansion AND I played everyday. On current system I haven’t paid for packs in years, and I have a full collection, and I play a couple times a week. Way better IMO, maybe I’m better at farming rewards since I generally play fatigue/heavy control decks but for me, the system is way better.
I disagree on your point that people would still be mad if your math proves that the system is better, if there's another side to this argument I would love to hear it!
@@DemagogueBibleStudy (for most players ( 99+ % of players)) who raised you to purposely misconstrue information that disagrees with you like this? So underhanded, evaluate yourself. Now do people care that the system is marginally better for everyone, apparently not, which Trump acknowledged in the video.
Fun fact, the achivement Trump got right as he played Yogg spoils the fact he won the game from playing yogg. It spoiled my first road of roasting, because I noticed it.
I think people are justifiably outraged about the system being only slightly better for most players. There was a major problem of people not being able to enjoy expansions due to how expensive cards are. The new system is cool, I like xp and leveling, but it didn't even remotely address the price problem, as Regis pointed out. As a whale who spent 120$ in Darkmoon with 10k dust saved from earlier in the year, the economy doesn't hurt me as much as someone who can only dish out 40$ per expansion or less. I feel bad for the people who can't afford to play with all the new old god legendaries.
Free to play player here: The new system doesn't change nothing about the price problem for me, since a little bit better or a little bit worse won't matter to someone that is forced to play face/highlander warrior for the 4th expansion. The game is expensive for those that choose to pay and unplayable to those who choose not to. I'm losing interest in the game even with all the amazing things in this expansion only because I can't fucking play them.
Edit: 6:50 He mentions should have done it earlier A quick question. Since you know it is mirror entity, is it ever right to play kargath so the spell mage has minion in his deck? Would have ruined his apexis blast.
Completely ignoring that the new system is highly less transparent and easily changed to be worse, that he had to math out how it even preforms compared to the old one is a huge part of the issue.
Low mmr like bronze and silver I have a decent win rate with lunacy deck. It is so dumb cause either you get amazing cards or summon minions from your deck cards. which hurts super bad.
I havent spent a dime on hearthstone in at least 4 or 5 years and I have like 30k leftover dust. People just gotta disenchant cards that get rotated out and play arena whenever they get low on coins/dust.
Hi Trump like your videos but couldnt help but notice 23:50 you were jumping up nd down waiting for Rod Roasting to come thru ..but the achievement for Yogg take the wheel 'was instaneous ergo the cheers were dramatically far from the cue ..i suggest singing the pyro maniac theme before dropping Yogg to create a more genuine feel for everyone watching Also i like ur glasses
Pretty much. Getting, let's say, 100 gold tomorrow rather than 50 today and 50 tomorrow isn't fundamentally different but stretch that logic too thin and any system will feel like garbage
Man, the biggest issues with this game these days is the amount of Legendaries needed for a lot of the top tier decks. Back when I first started playing 2-3 legendaries was all you needed to craft a powerful deck. These days we're looking at 8 legendaries like we see with this deck. It;s expensive as hell! I saved up enough gold to buy 60 packs, I got 5 legendaries, non of which could really work together. I would HAVE to spend money to get the cards I want in time for this current season. It's why I don't play as much.
1:42 “How in the world do you win with a deck full of random spells?” (Note: haven’t watched the rest of the video yet) Well I guess you could win by your opponent Rod of Roasting themself to death XD
I don't want to be that guy, but what level of the battle pass are you basing that calculation off of? One of the first 10 levels? One of the later 90 levels? Or an average of all the levels?
When playing against a tickatus, isn't it better to just keep a cthun piece in hand till they mill you completely and then play it plus a shieldblock to get cthun in hand guaranteed?
Honestly if they kept the 3 wins = 10 gold system on top of this reward system I'd have zero problem with it, it just sucks being like 10g away from playing a duels game with no way to earn that gold except grinding
I think most people complaining are people who where looking to get back into hearthstone to free to play. Like me they see the promise of better rewards get exited then get disappointed and mad when blizzard lied
I don't think saying the new system is better is fair. I think it gives more resources, but in a less flexible. If your goal is the whole set, then more resources is always better, but of your goal is to make a meta deck, then the lack of flexibility hurts it.
18:33 wrong. You didn't take into account the amount of time invested per day. The new reward system is more interesting if you are playing long games and if you are doing so all day long. Even in quarantine I don't want to spend 4+ hours a day playing HS like it's my job or something. The old reward system allowed to gain gold by only investing a reasonable amount of time played each day and that's what it is all about. Yes the old system rewarded less *POTENTIAL* maximum gold but no one except streamers grinds that game to the point where it is a relevant argument. The new system is only better if you sink a considerable amount of time every day in the game and no one does that. And don't be condescending about it because it is a real issue and not "for the sake of being outraged" as you say.
Trump did a long review of the system on his twitch stream, might want to go check the vod to actually get his opinion on the matter, and to see where his math comes from.
Free to play player here: The new system doesn't change nothing about the price problem for me, since a little bit better or a little bit worse won't matter to someone that is forced to play face/highlander warrior for the 4th expansion. The game is expensive for those that choose to pay and unplayable to those who choose not to. I'm losing interest in the game even with all the amazing things in this expansion only because I can't fucking play them
I’ve switched to wild and just play a good old burgle random rogue. For me i get a lot more enjoyment playing there and the ability to get cards I don’t have makes it fun.
Yep. My free legendary was Rinling’s Rifle, and I pulled The Nameless One, Grand Empress Shek’zara, and Deck of Chaos from my packs. Nothing that exciting, and now I have a “play old gods” quest which I have to reroll.
@@Zavendea So fun isn't it? I got the Shaman attack and wind fury girl I forgot the name. Uninstalled the game today and downloaded LoR. Trying it out, sounds fun.
As someone who wasn't really outraged and didn't really care much until just about everyone said the new system was worse I would appreciate clarification. That being said I get that achievements are good in the new system, but I am pretty a completionist and it really bugs me how hard and how many of the achievements are allocated to duels and battlegrounds. Especially battlegrounds never felt like HS to me. It's like having to play TFT to unlock champions in LoL.
I dont like the achievements. I find then mostly useless since all it does is give you achievement points. Id much rather have those points exchanged for xp instead and see no reason why they cant be, since some of them already do. Unless there’s a way you can see other people’s achievements and achievement points, I dont find them entertaining. If they added a % of people who had them, it’d gain my interest moreso than it does now, since idgaf. And there are so many; some of which are things that are pretty unlikely to happen, for me at least, like getting 12 wins in duels without a loss. There’s no way Im getting that one.
@@Gorbgorbenson Yeah I can't even tell which achievements give and which don't give you XP. If I knew for sure I wouldn't have cared for them either I guess.
Dang Trump supports the new rewards system, Solem was right on that call dang. Shame the mayor of value town can’t see that the new system gives us less value than the old system.
Doesn't matter that the system is slightly better for overall gold, it's just not good enough imo. The situation where you have 140 gold on you and if youw ant the 10 gold to do an arena run you probably need to play for 3 days to get your next 150 gold reward is just stupid.
The new system is subjectively worst, if not from a total rewards perspective, but from a “I completed all my daily and weekly quests and my reward was 100 gold and one pack that gave me nothing” so I’m a bit disappointed in Trump for insisting it’s a straight improvement.
Trump did the math on it on stream. That is what he is talking about because for most players it will lead to slightly more rewards. The real losers are the people who only play Arena.
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I will always appreciate the high pitch rattlegores
It's such a little thing but it makes me so happy. Lil rattlegore fighting for his life.
Wait, is that edited? Or was it actually implemented?
@@punneedles8505 nah its done in post
What a good editor
It's even better if you watch at 2x speed
The timestamp you may be looking for is 23:55
thanks
Thanks
not all heroes wear capes
F this clickbait BS
cheers
Control warrior be like
Turn 8: 7 health
Turn 9: 7 health and 46 armour
sounds about right
Thats actually so funny
@@jamesberkeley390 Not funny for the mage for sure
@@DamienCloud This mage should be more skillful in drawing his C'thune =D
@@madlizard7 lmao yeah better play casino
That first game: “how does mage win with random spells?” Look I don’t know either but they just seem to
let watch rng mage again
Same way renounce warlock won games maybe^^ sometimes. But it's been a ride almost everytime.
Turns out that most mage spells are preeeetty good
@@mObbMD Renounce warlock is similar in idea, but Lunacy is far less drastic. You are guaranteed late game spells with tempo discounts. There should be a way to make a legit deck by having a minion based win condition and pivoting early anti aggro spells into late game potential with Lunacy, but for most people a full on random deck is fun I suppose and it's a trial and error head scratcher to make it legit.
i still dunno what rng god they pray to but sometimes deck of wonders rng can be short of absurd
Trump: *chanting for Rod of Roasting*
Yogg: *actually lands it*
Trump: *THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE PLAN!*
Other classes: Look at my 10 mana deal 78907 damage play
Warrior: I have pressed B U T T O N : )
Hehe 2 health 47 armor go BRRRRRRR
I'm objectively interested in the math on comparing the new systems. So there's one reason to do the video!
The most interesting one is Arena... I am pretty sure there is less gold (but you do get stuff like packs) which is obviously bad if you want to play Arena... but you do get exp in Arena where before you got nothing (though quest no longer giving gold probably sucks quite a bit... and it is especially annoying if you are at like 140 gold or something as earning that 10 gold you need isn't always easy with the new system)
Just watch the hearthstone mathematics video on it. th-cam.com/video/YbnBolNJhYA/w-d-xo.html
The breakdown got some flaws, but there are serious issues with the new system and Trump would never adress that in fear of losing his sponsorship and being blacklisted, just like most big streamers. The system is really bad for way more than 1% of the players. The slow progress from lvl 20 onwards is very demotivating, especially the stupid packs. They should hand out dust instead imo.
I really dislike that the quest which grants the most xp is "win 7 ranked games". It forces me to play ranked which I dont enjoy at all. "Win 7 games in any mode" would be much better. I'm also getting far less than the promised 300 xp/h in battlegrounds. Everybody knows that they made a corporate move to force the players to invest more money into the game. If you play less than 7 hours of HS per day the new system is worse for you in the long run.
@@ollih.901 He actually did. Two or three vods ago he spent 3-4 HOURS counting every thing part of the new system on stream, live. That HS mathematics video is actually pretty bad btw, not much better than the reddit calculations.
@@anonofyesterday4650 It definitely got its flaws, but the major point of the video is still valid and that is the small xp gain by playing. Since I am playing HS myself I can check the reward track and it got a really annoying bug. Something most people probably dont recognize is that you sometimes dont get the xp immediately, but have to resatart HS. That hurts calculating in general.
Yesterday I got lvl 23, I needed 3100 xp which is about 3 1000 xp quests which equals 3 60 gold quests in the past. I would rather have 180 gold instead of a pack.
I also dislike ranked, therefore the 7 wins in ranked quest should be 7 wins in any mode imo. I also prefer gold and dust over old packs.
The worst part is that the new system demotivates me. The slow progression from lvl 20 onwards is tedious. And getting a bit of gold for another arena run is impossible now. For me personally the new system is worse than the old system which already was really bad in comparison to other ccgs (like LoR or ESL).
@@anonofyesterday4650 imo you can't count the xp from achievments. First, it is super grindy and you must craft 17 legendarys for it. And several epics! Furthermore people still don't get daily/weekly quests, dont get xp in heroic duels mode and way less xp than the advertised 400 xp/h (its more like 240 for me and i am not an aggro player). But most of all, it feels absolutely terrible. Not getting anything for 4 days of playing. Getting old packs. Terrible daily quests. Rope bots. So no, the new system is not better... And the old system was already really bad!
Trump at 6 health: Tis but a scratch
Kel'Thuzad: A scratch? Your arm's off!
Trump at 6 health and 28 armour: No it isn't.
I love me a good Monty python reference
Trump at 6 health and 43 arrmor
Kel'Thuzad: We'll call it a draw
@@cathal1906 Trump: Oh, I dont think so
Your*
It's just a flesh would!
When you notice that if Trump didn't have all that armor when he played yogg he would have lost to triple Pyroblast face...
Yogg knows
I actually would really like a video to break down the math on the new system. I particularly like it for various reasons, but if at the end of the day I am actually getting more gold I’d want to see the math on how
What it kinda boils down to is time spent in the match. An aggro deck makes more gold with the old system, as you can cap very quickly. With the new system an aggro deck makes less per match, because you're now being rewarded closer to time spent playing, instead of strictly winning.
Its also great for a newer player (like myself) because even if you lose you can still make progress to a reward.
I know its not the "math" but at least I hope I helped with the last part of your comment :)
@@whirlwindsky The problem comes when people intentionally spend time to stall until the rope appears just to finesse the new reward system. Its not that fun to play against when your opponent doesn't do anything.
@@SunSunSunn okay but there's no point, you're just wasting both players time. while a longer game will get you more gold, completely two equal length games will do the same, there's no reason to stall.
I would also like to see the video to see how he's valuating the old packs, the epic, and the 2 legendaries that replace the free legendary and legendary quest chain. Also, beyond level 58 it's 4500xp for 150 gold, which is about 3 daily quests for 100 gold, while before that would have been at least 150 gold.
@@SunSunSunn
The thing is stalling actually doesn't do anything. It rewards by hour spent in game. Playing 10 six minute game will reward the same amount as playing 5 twelve minute games. Stalling won't increase rewards, it will just increase the amount t of time wasted. Only dumb players will stall to earn more exp
I personally would love to see your math on the new reward system as all of Reddit's calculations say it's mostly worse. As a battlegrounds player, I'm honestly not too peeved by most of the changes.
I doubt he's gonna upload it to TH-cam, you're probably better off checking the vod on twitch. Just don't make any plans for the evening, let's just put it that way...
Rod of roasting gives me my favorite Trump, *crunchy and toasty*
From where I see it, the new system isn't as good as you say. I would really love to see proof that backs your claim that it's better.
Then check his vod on twitch
@@SuperSymn No need, it's garbage. Someone in chat literally says the new system is more work for roughly the same reward and Trump's response is "ehhhh (shrug)". For some reason he doesn't know you can't re-roll the win 7 games quest, because it's the only one and you will get it every week which is a horrible quest for casual players. Also I'm not sure because he was all over the place, but from what I saw he counted xp from playing, but didn't take into account the 10 gold for 3 wins into his calculations into the overall gold at the end of an expansion, but I'm not sure on that one since the vod is too long and at the end I was a bit checked out. Imagine if there was a better way of explaining it like maybe a video on TH-cam, oh, wait, there is, except every TH-cam video that did the calculations says it's worse.
@@NiramBG So the win 7 ranked games is "horrible for casual players" (because getting a single win every day on low ranks is hard, apparently) but getting all 100 daily gold from the 3 wins (which amounts to 30 victories, btw, around 4 times and a bit more than the quest) isnt?
Cool
@@potatoesthelord Yes it is, because you didn't have to get wins before, you didn't have to play ranked before. All you had to do was once every 3 days for 30 min against a friend or randoms in casual and get the gold from your quests. Now according to Trump you have to login every day for at least an hour and play ranked. Most casual players aren't gonna do that. Hell most players have switched to Battlegrounds. A lot of people apparently don't remember but before the previous system had win quests as well, but those could be re-rolled and even still they got rid of them!
I had this happen to me once, this morning. It crashed immediately.
I have no idea who won and the wonder is killing me.
I think yogg crashes the game for the opponent if you get the 0 mana spels option. I've lost two games like that already
did you play casual? otherwise you could count your stars
@@eisgnom7383 I didn't know how many I started with to begin with :(
that happened to me last night, i was playing DH and the Druid played Pyro Yogg and game crashed.. i am unsure if i lost stars or not
it's also been crashing with the 0 spells one when i'm the opponent
You'd be surprised. Deck of Lunacy truly has its moments. Got me all the way from gold 10 to diamond 10 (with like only a 3 star bonus in gold)
I like you educational videos a lot. I would enjoy a video where you break down the systems and show us your math.
th-cam.com/video/YbnBolNJhYA/w-d-xo.html This channel does this sort of thing way better than Trump imo. He has to care about his sponsorship and income, therefore he probably cant speak freely on the topic, just like most big streamers. The breakdown got its flaws, but its still pretty good.
@@ollih.901 stop shilling this channel, people want to see Trump's take on it. You have no idea what you're talking about with the special interests, people criticizing the new system have been featured on the blizzard launcher with their critique videos.
@@ollih.901 Trump quite literally on his channel on twitch spent an exhaustive amount of time going over the numbers.
I would be happy to see a video explaining mathematically why the new system is better. My issue as a F2P player is that you need to play a lot to get the rewards but playing a lot feels bad when you barely have any cards. And between the battlegrounds pass (which I will not be getting next expansion) and the lack of a steady flow of coins, I just have none of the new cards. Usually when an expansion starts, I've hoarded coins and I'm getting a lot of coins so I get a ton of packs and I wanna play more because I have so many decks I wanna play. But I couldn't do that this time around. So I'd like to see how mathematically, if you already did the work, it actually is better - and you should consider people that don't have enough time to play to get 30 wins a day.
Same here. Was mainly playing arena and doing quests on the side and still could safe up enough gold for at least one t1, t2 deck. Now my gold count doesn't really get any higher without several dailys so my motivation is gone.
Yeah same
Today, in RNG-Stone...
Original joke
@@instrumentaltiger5633 well at least you dont have to preorder this joke
@@instrumentaltiger5633 Oh wow! Was this really a pre-established joke? I actually thought myself pretty original.
@@AntoineBandele yea card games already have a lot of rng, and the goal to making good decks are to try and reduce the amount of rng as much as possible. Only, HS has mechanics like random targeting, discover, and random card generation, which means it's much more possible that an inexperienced player who played really poorly can still win against someone who built a good deck and played near perfectly.
So yea, HS gets a lot of hate from card game fans for revelling in what everyone considers the worst flaw of card games, despite the fans wanting less rng.
Yeah, it's part of why I stopped playing it. Mostly just the mess that was demon hunter tho. No fun left in the game.
It's not even that the game is too expensive _if you want to have ALL the cards._ That would be unreasonable. It's that the game is too expensive _if you want to have more than ONE standard deck._ That's a much bigger issue. The introduction of Duels only exasperated it, because there's this cool new mode that a lot of people would want to participate in, but it's virtually impossible to make a 15 card deck that synergizes with these specific hero powers without having extremely specific legendary cards. Like, you're not gonna make a Shaman deck without Gidra and Fireheart, that's just not happening. So we now live in a world where on the day of the expansion you can't really compete using old decks, because every expansion introduces ridiculous power spikes, but if you're a free-to-play player or a player who occasionally buys stuff but doesn't pay through their nose for the game, well, you either wait a couple of days for the meta to somewhat settle, which is insane because you're removing a huge chunk of the player-base from enjoying your game during its most crucial moment, or you hope you're lucky with the ONE DECK you can probably craft for the leftover dust from the previous expansion and it turns out to be good. It doesn't? Oh, well, sucks to be you, enjoy Battlegrounds for the next couple of weeks while ineffectively trying to get packs to create a different deck I guess? Which will suck, because as mentioned the one deck you were able to build is bad, so you're gonna be losing a lot, and losing just because your deck is bad ain't fun.
A part of this issue is that bad cards rarely get changed which would allow people to turn them in for full dust cost. This creates a situation where only the people who lucked out or have a huuuge collection of cards get a return on their investment, the people that invested everything they had and it turned out to be a bust get completely shafted. Basically, it's a microcosm of why capitalism sucks for like the 99% of the people involved.
New system gives less control to the player overall. Say they're at 190 gold and want to do an arena, they're far more than 3 wins away at that point.
That's the worse about all this. The new reward system only gives gold in increments of 100/150. That would be fine starting out as you'll only ever be 50ish gold away from an arena. However going into this new system I had 95 gold ): Since there's no way to get 5-10 gold that gold is basically useless lol
@@UnicornCombo You don’t get 10 gold every 3 wins anymore?
@@Sawyer5500 not anymore
Thanks for clarifying your position about the new system, I know some people seemed upset because you didn't make a video to talk about it, but that sums up well.
If you do a video on the new system, could you go into the math in detail? That would be pretty informative IMO.
he already did on his twich stream
@@quirda77 Ah ok! I dug around and I found the VOD, for anyone who's interested. www.twitch.tv/videos/810166510?t=01h43m02s
The reason for Demonic studies, really flexible, can get big cards, against control and small thing against aggro/midrange, but another is, if you run Khartut, tickatus actually get corrupted, because it costs 5
I hope y'all appreciate dat higher pitched Rattlegore!
Wdym?
So from what I was seeing of the reward system...
It's not that it's better or worse as a whole, it's that it shifts the rewards around in a fashion that incentivizes specific play patterns.
Basically there are certain breakpoints where the previous system was better than the new one, and there are other breakpoints where the new one is better, which does sort of run counter to what blizzard was saying that "everybody gets more" out of the new system - if even a single person got less, that is, definitionally, not everybody.
blizzard never said everybody would get more, their quote is "we're not taking away gold, you would earn roughly the same or even more". Technically that is also wrong, because they took away gold and replaced it with other stuff. The issue with the new system is the sluggish progression really, and the scumminess of some of its features (like year of the dragon pack at level 48 that got removed, or the fact that the mega bundle did not include the tavern pass). What this mess did though was make everyone aware of how shit the economy of the game has always been.
im mad at blizzard not for the rewards im outraged for the ramp, sure the rewards give you a net gain more for adding to your collection but the time it takes to get these rewards are whack right now im at a point were one weekly quests wont even net me a full level
Friend of mine had to wait 5 days to finally do an arena because his rewards were first a pack and then the gold, he had to level up twice to do the content he wanted
Watching this now after Barrens and rotation...
now THAT is your predicted toptier deck, the other one was waaaaaaay too greedy
Just clownin around!
Can't believe I never noticed before how rattlegores sounds gets higher the smaller it gets.
That's the magic of Jens editing
I uninstalled Hearthstone but I will continue to watch trump.
That bad huh? I honestly am in the dark about a lot of whats going on
hah, i deleted my blizz account, yet here I am.
@@dizzyspell8197 Reward system got reworked a bunch and basically you're getting less gold for way more time invested.
@@dizzyspell8197 whiny people crying about a free game that is too expensive because they cant play his favorite streamer deck or be a meta slave with a deck with 31 legendaries to win 5 matches and drop the game
@@codenamezq8027 Did you watch the entire video before making this comment? Trump comments on this exact issue. I get the feeling that people are angry because other people are rather than actually feeling that way themselves. Hearthstone is an expensive game, it always has been.
I’m actually quite fond of deck of lunacy. Yes it’s extremely highrolly but overall I’ve only had positive results out of my lunacy penflinger mage
I think what you're missing is how much they subverted the expactations of the community. They announced it as this big defining change people have been waiting for and then its barely better (if it even is).
LOL I had no idea Rattlegore’s voice got so high the more he was weakened! Amazing
Editing
Sadly thats only in editing.
This needs to be in the game
@@Jebu911 DAMMIT JENS!
@@Mrobinson587 small indie company ;)
The sadness I experienced when Trump won from the of Rod of Roasting..For the timeline that Trump had lost that game, that version of me was deeply deeply satisfied
The greatest, toastiest timeline.
I can never get enough of that Yogg laugh
I love how Rattlegore's voide gets thinner every time he comes back
"people are being outraged for outrage sake" im sorry what?
Damn some hot takes there in the middle
I respect Trump doing the math on Battlepass...and I trust his take, I miss popping the 10g but I know overall I’m seeing gains. That feels good.
My issue with the new system is that it's so complicated. The old system was just you play 3 games to get some gold on top of daily quests.
Agreed. They shouldn’t have made it so you need to redeem them. It’s really obnoxious to have to navigate the clunky menu to redeem something that’s worthless. It would at least make sense if 1. It was only for the ones gave you xp/packs 2. All of them gave xp.
So, You are playing hearthstone and cannot understand a simple new reward system? Basically You are saying that You are just stupid (no ofense)
@@brianramos147 offense*, or offence in England. And "you" isn't capitalised
Less raw gold as rewards also means players can't direct their rewards toward their preferred packs, or to things like Arena. Maybe people end up a little bit ahead in dust value of cards.
But the reward structure is bad, and at best is still bad, for a game whose expense grows. "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago with the OG Old Gods?" No, no you are not.
@@jaeusa160 I absolutely am. In the old gods days I HAD to spend money for packs every expansion AND I played everyday. On current system I haven’t paid for packs in years, and I have a full collection, and I play a couple times a week. Way better IMO, maybe I’m better at farming rewards since I generally play fatigue/heavy control decks but for me, the system is way better.
24:00 ahh yes good old "trump react to things" vibes
I disagree on your point that people would still be mad if your math proves that the system is better, if there's another side to this argument I would love to hear it!
No one cares if the new system is technically marginally better (for some players) than the bad system it replaced.
@@DemagogueBibleStudy (for most players ( 99+ % of players)) who raised you to purposely misconstrue information that disagrees with you like this? So underhanded, evaluate yourself. Now do people care that the system is marginally better for everyone, apparently not, which Trump acknowledged in the video.
@@averageagarthianman
Huh?
@@DemagogueBibleStudy Typical
@@averageagarthianman
What?
CW is definitely my favourite deck this expansion, so much value!
Fun fact, the achivement Trump got right as he played Yogg spoils the fact he won the game from playing yogg. It spoiled my first road of roasting, because I noticed it.
*plays demonic studies*
"Okay its not a tickitus deck, I wonder what it is"
Looks at my tickitus deck with demonic studies
The first time I played Yogg I got Pyroblast and died 😂
I think people are justifiably outraged about the system being only slightly better for most players. There was a major problem of people not being able to enjoy expansions due to how expensive cards are. The new system is cool, I like xp and leveling, but it didn't even remotely address the price problem, as Regis pointed out.
As a whale who spent 120$ in Darkmoon with 10k dust saved from earlier in the year, the economy doesn't hurt me as much as someone who can only dish out 40$ per expansion or less. I feel bad for the people who can't afford to play with all the new old god legendaries.
Free to play player here: The new system doesn't change nothing about the price problem for me, since a little bit better or a little bit worse won't matter to someone that is forced to play face/highlander warrior for the 4th expansion.
The game is expensive for those that choose to pay and unplayable to those who choose not to. I'm losing interest in the game even with all the amazing things in this expansion only because I can't fucking play them.
@@moonlight-hm4bh At least HS is fantastic as a streaming/TH-cam game where a lot of the enjoyment comes from content creators.
Imagine spending twice the cost of a full-price AAA game on stuff for a card game (stuff that won't be usable in 2 years)
@@Satherian imagine insulting someone for spending their money how they want to on a game they enjoy.
@@Gorbgorbenson Imagine? I'm doin it right now!
You should try the ETC combo deck, uses primarily your reveal card for lethal
I got rod of roasting at least 5 times already and 4 of those times I killed myself with it haha
reapers scythe and athletic studies are so underrated in control warrior
Edit: 6:50 He mentions should have done it earlier
A quick question. Since you know it is mirror entity, is it ever right to play kargath so the spell mage has minion in his deck? Would have ruined his apexis blast.
The first time you win rod of roasting you instantly get the spin the wheel Achievement which spoilers the outcome.
Yogg hates me, casts Pyroblast, hit me, I'm on 9 health...to think he is the only chance you got 😢
Completely ignoring that the new system is highly less transparent and easily changed to be worse, that he had to math out how it even preforms compared to the old one is a huge part of the issue.
The Pyroblasting is spoiled by the achievement pop-up at 24:00 bottom left corner. There's no way Trump couldn't see it when he was playing
@1:54
If he runs C'Thun it seems safe to assume they shouldn't run 'Deck of Destroy Your C'thun Pieces'
Low mmr like bronze and silver I have a decent win rate with lunacy deck. It is so dumb cause either you get amazing cards or summon minions from your deck cards. which hurts super bad.
"The Madman" at the Darkmoon Faire.
"Madness" at the Darkmoon Faire.
How did it take me THIS long to realize?
I havent spent a dime on hearthstone in at least 4 or 5 years and I have like 30k leftover dust. People just gotta disenchant cards that get rotated out and play arena whenever they get low on coins/dust.
23:55
thanks
Dude we need PogTrump as an emote
2:30 Baby I'm a firework *Katy Perry intensifies*
Hi Trump like your videos but couldnt help but notice 23:50 you were jumping up nd down waiting for Rod Roasting to come thru ..but the achievement for Yogg take the wheel 'was instaneous ergo the cheers were dramatically far from the cue ..i suggest singing the pyro maniac theme before dropping Yogg to create a more genuine feel for everyone watching Also i like ur glasses
How important are bulwark and ancharr in this deck? I dusted them some time ago and I don't know if they're worth crafting back.
Trump: I will accept the results of the rod... if I win.
I think that while we may get more rewards in the end the pacing of those rewards feels pretty off
Once you get past those initial levels you can play hearthstone for days with no visible progress and it feels really bad.
Pretty much. Getting, let's say, 100 gold tomorrow rather than 50 today and 50 tomorrow isn't fundamentally different but stretch that logic too thin and any system will feel like garbage
Man, the biggest issues with this game these days is the amount of Legendaries needed for a lot of the top tier decks. Back when I first started playing 2-3 legendaries was all you needed to craft a powerful deck. These days we're looking at 8 legendaries like we see with this deck. It;s expensive as hell! I saved up enough gold to buy 60 packs, I got 5 legendaries, non of which could really work together. I would HAVE to spend money to get the cards I want in time for this current season. It's why I don't play as much.
Most popular Mage is Deck of Lunacy? Wuh oh, Trump may have to pay out on that bet sooner than expected
24:00 for the roasting
niiceeeee
Thanks, Champ. This was the whole reason I went right to the comments.
@@MagusKain I'm not a fan of TH-camrs hiding a cool moment so I'll always look for that guy that finds it for me
1:42 “How in the world do you win with a deck full of random spells?”
(Note: haven’t watched the rest of the video yet)
Well I guess you could win by your opponent Rod of Roasting themself to death XD
i think surviving a cthun is more impresive idk xD
How does deck of lunacy win with random spells... With C'thuun? The deck has C'thuun for control matchups and can deck for anything midrange to aggro.
16:47 "I did the meth" - Trump
17:04 "Seriously though, I did the meth." - Trump
and it was really exhausting
I don't want to be that guy, but what level of the battle pass are you basing that calculation off of? One of the first 10 levels? One of the later 90 levels? Or an average of all the levels?
This one has to be bugged. THe opponent played this. I was at 38 hp, he was at 13. I got hit 4 times, he got hit zero.
When playing against a tickatus, isn't it better to just keep a cthun piece in hand till they mill you completely and then play it plus a shieldblock to get cthun in hand guaranteed?
That doesn’t decrease the risk of the opponent burning a different piece.
@@thebigyes8482 I meant in the sitatuation that you've drawn/played the other pieces
@@dodde216 Yeah I replied before I watched the video because there was no context
@@thebigyes8482 Fair. I thought about including some context but decided not to in the end
Honestly if they kept the 3 wins = 10 gold system on top of this reward system I'd have zero problem with it, it just sucks being like 10g away from playing a duels game with no way to earn that gold except grinding
Yeah, Im stuck at 90 gold rn -_-
I think most people complaining are people who where looking to get back into hearthstone to free to play. Like me they see the promise of better rewards get exited then get disappointed and mad when blizzard lied
I don't think saying the new system is better is fair. I think it gives more resources, but in a less flexible. If your goal is the whole set, then more resources is always better, but of your goal is to make a meta deck, then the lack of flexibility hurts it.
I would like to see the math Trump did for the new system, because my sneaking suspicion is he didn't factor in time and effort.
Is it just me or is Rod also smaller on the visual wheel as well
RATTLEGOOOOOORE
18:33 wrong. You didn't take into account the amount of time invested per day. The new reward system is more interesting if you are playing long games and if you are doing so all day long. Even in quarantine I don't want to spend 4+ hours a day playing HS like it's my job or something. The old reward system allowed to gain gold by only investing a reasonable amount of time played each day and that's what it is all about. Yes the old system rewarded less *POTENTIAL* maximum gold but no one except streamers grinds that game to the point where it is a relevant argument. The new system is only better if you sink a considerable amount of time every day in the game and no one does that. And don't be condescending about it because it is a real issue and not "for the sake of being outraged" as you say.
Trump did a long review of the system on his twitch stream, might want to go check the vod to actually get his opinion on the matter, and to see where his math comes from.
idea:get everything that puts cards in you opponents hand then watch as you burn half their deck by forcing them to pick up while their hand is full
Thats like 3 cards
@@Biosquid239 then get all the cards that let you copy those cards
@@filipthunell8631 why do that when there is a discard 5 enemy cards minion now anyways?
@@Biosquid239 add that to this deck idea
Free to play player here: The new system doesn't change nothing about the price problem for me, since a little bit better or a little bit worse won't matter to someone that is forced to play face/highlander warrior for the 4th expansion.
The game is expensive for those that choose to pay and unplayable to those who choose not to. I'm losing interest in the game even with all the amazing things in this expansion only because I can't fucking play them
I’ve switched to wild and just play a good old burgle random rogue. For me i get a lot more enjoyment playing there and the ability to get cards I don’t have makes it fun.
Yep. My free legendary was Rinling’s Rifle, and I pulled The Nameless One, Grand Empress Shek’zara, and Deck of Chaos from my packs. Nothing that exciting, and now I have a “play old gods” quest which I have to reroll.
@@Zavendea So fun isn't it? I got the Shaman attack and wind fury girl I forgot the name. Uninstalled the game today and downloaded LoR. Trying it out, sounds fun.
Where can I find the background music for the first match?
Wish I checked the comments for the Yog at 23:55.
I’ve yet to lose to an early Lunacy...I respect the players running it, but wow does it whiff!
As someone who wasn't really outraged and didn't really care much until just about everyone said the new system was worse I would appreciate clarification. That being said I get that achievements are good in the new system, but I am pretty a completionist and it really bugs me how hard and how many of the achievements are allocated to duels and battlegrounds. Especially battlegrounds never felt like HS to me. It's like having to play TFT to unlock champions in LoL.
I dont like the achievements. I find then mostly useless since all it does is give you achievement points. Id much rather have those points exchanged for xp instead and see no reason why they cant be, since some of them already do.
Unless there’s a way you can see other people’s achievements and achievement points, I dont find them entertaining. If they added a % of people who had them, it’d gain my interest moreso than it does now, since idgaf.
And there are so many; some of which are things that are pretty unlikely to happen, for me at least, like getting 12 wins in duels without a loss. There’s no way Im getting that one.
@@Gorbgorbenson Yeah I can't even tell which achievements give and which don't give you XP. If I knew for sure I wouldn't have cared for them either I guess.
Dang Trump supports the new rewards system, Solem was right on that call dang. Shame the mayor of value town can’t see that the new system gives us less value than the old system.
I don't care anymore, all I want is Rattlegores and Yogg Saroth.
And I don't even play hearthstone
We need a new "trump reacts to things"
Doesn't matter that the system is slightly better for overall gold, it's just not good enough imo.
The situation where you have 140 gold on you and if youw ant the 10 gold to do an arena run you probably need to play for 3 days to get your next 150 gold reward is just stupid.
I'd really like to see a video about the new system. When Trump does it, I know the math is done proper and I can trust it.
The new system is subjectively worst, if not from a total rewards perspective, but from a “I completed all my daily and weekly quests and my reward was 100 gold and one pack that gave me nothing” so I’m a bit disappointed in Trump for insisting it’s a straight improvement.
Trump did the math on it on stream. That is what he is talking about because for most players it will lead to slightly more rewards. The real losers are the people who only play Arena.
I think Bulwark got a lot worse because of the cthun effects in this expansion.
The new gold system, you want 150 gold on level 28? Just play 9h of games...All of which you need to win. Easy, you get 150 gold that way!
Armour up counters spells - Trump
I havent seen constructed in a long time, so when tf did they make exodia in hearthstone?
lol i thought this was familiar. i caught these games on the stream lol