This conversation made me think of the psychoanalyst and pediatrician Donald Winnicott’s idea of the ‘good enough mother’. This is: the parent who may not perfectly embody the parental ideal you might abstract from contemporary psychiatric literature or from looking back on your own childhood retrospectively, but who nonetheless made the child capable of sound judgement and iteration by trying their best. To me that is the mark of a person or community who bears good fruit. Everybody is going to act in bad faith and bring pride or presumption to the table sometimes, but those things can be contained by a spirit of charity, openness, and humility. When that happens each person is “good enough” and so is the dyad or group by virtue of authentically engaging with the other. Ultimately I suspect that bearing bad fruit would be non-engagement, fatalism, or shunning criticism. I don’t get a chance to tune in too often, but you touched on a lot of things I’ve been thinking about and things that are very much in the air right now that I didn’t have the words for. Great conversation
I’m just here to create the space for Shari and Tyler to come in and close this out with a BANG. Great stuff. Also, thanks to all the newbies coming onscreen and sharing time with us all. Lucas, good to see you. Etc.
@WhiteStoneName I’ve just got to say that what you’ve been facilitating with these livestreams has been very special. You’ve got a real gift for hospitality and welcoming people in. Just wanted to send some encouragement your way! And you’re right about the ending! 🤯
1:51:00 I am extremely grateful that Chad is in TLC. I have said before, and I’ll say it again, I think he is the best at spotting snakes in the grass. He almost is always pointing to the little, hidden, serpents, and forms of pride, that are hard for others to see.
Chad! I love it. So good. Flawed perfection. In my experience lurking the last two weeks I have turned off multiple streams I usually listen to in completion because they have turned into, “cat in the tree” meetings. The talk has shifted from the solution to problems. I just go back and listen to old stuff, keep tuning in, and waiting for the wind in tlc to shift.
Hi Luke, something you are pointing to that I've mentioned a few times in TLC, as soon as Christ's teachings are formalised, we move away from his teachings. We can't approach God through mechanical means. This is the FUNDAMENTAL flaw with church. Church has it's utility but, as I understand it, most of the saints were initially kicked out of the church or were at minimum considered rebels.
Sometimes o think Jess and Shari are a little to soft on Job. I get the vibe he can do no wrong. But then again, I would say the same about Christians in general and Jesus
I’m catching up right now. Had to find out what Chad was on about. I will say this, I have never felt comfortable talking about my journey to Orthodoxy in TLC. So it is a part of me that I don’t feel free to talk about which I find sad. My personal experience has often been that if I say anything I’m met with hostility. So I’m not sure this has anything to do with Luke. I think people have a very unhealthy perspective on Eastern Orthodoxy, for reasons I don’t really understand. Lord have mercy.
My difficulty isint with the church it’s more with the evangelizing when claiming not to evangelize. I’m not claiming to be in the right at all. I was acting very immature and apologize for my offensiveness.
@@ChadTheAlcoholic when someone is claiming not to be evangelizing I think we should take them at face value. I know when I decide to believe to someone, I hear them very differently.
@@ChadTheAlcoholic well then maybe you should make it more explicit. I know I’m willing to listen. But my original comment still stands. This space feels very hostile to me when it comes to Orthodox faith and as I said I don’t know why. I would also add that I thought the whole thing was very unfair to Lance. Lance always speaks from his own experience and has been very engaged in fostering many conversations with people of other denominations in this space.
This whole stream was one for the ages
This conversation made me think of the psychoanalyst and pediatrician Donald Winnicott’s idea of the ‘good enough mother’. This is: the parent who may not perfectly embody the parental ideal you might abstract from contemporary psychiatric literature or from looking back on your own childhood retrospectively, but who nonetheless made the child capable of sound judgement and iteration by trying their best. To me that is the mark of a person or community who bears good fruit. Everybody is going to act in bad faith and bring pride or presumption to the table sometimes, but those things can be contained by a spirit of charity, openness, and humility. When that happens each person is “good enough” and so is the dyad or group by virtue of authentically engaging with the other. Ultimately I suspect that bearing bad fruit would be non-engagement, fatalism, or shunning criticism. I don’t get a chance to tune in too often, but you touched on a lot of things I’ve been thinking about and things that are very much in the air right now that I didn’t have the words for. Great conversation
I’m just here to create the space for Shari and Tyler to come in and close this out with a BANG.
Great stuff.
Also, thanks to all the newbies coming onscreen and sharing time with us all.
Lucas, good to see you.
Etc.
Just caught up with the rest of the stream Luke. 🙏🤗 (also left a comment below)
@WhiteStoneName I’ve just got to say that what you’ve been facilitating with these livestreams has been very special. You’ve got a real gift for hospitality and welcoming people in. Just wanted to send some encouragement your way!
And you’re right about the ending! 🤯
@@lukefreeperson thank you. Means a lot. Been a…wild day.
This helps. ❤️
Glad to have served as host for a minute for the first time today ♥️
You did a fantastic job! You’re a natural 😎
1:51:00
I am extremely grateful that Chad is in TLC. I have said before, and I’ll say it again, I think he is the best at spotting snakes in the grass. He almost is always pointing to the little, hidden, serpents, and forms of pride, that are hard for others to see.
Chad! I love it. So good. Flawed perfection. In my experience lurking the last two weeks I have turned off multiple streams I usually listen to in completion because they have turned into, “cat in the tree” meetings. The talk has shifted from the solution to problems. I just go back and listen to old stuff, keep tuning in, and waiting for the wind in tlc to shift.
ქრიტე აღსგდა, Christ is risen.
ჩეს მარიტატ, he has indeed.
I Love You All.
Hi Luke, something you are pointing to that I've mentioned a few times in TLC, as soon as Christ's teachings are formalised, we move away from his teachings. We can't approach God through mechanical means. This is the FUNDAMENTAL flaw with church. Church has it's utility but, as I understand it, most of the saints were initially kicked out of the church or were at minimum considered rebels.
Sadly, very often the case.
47:34
I completely agree. And when I listen to father Stephen I get the same vibes tbh
Here we go, now to see where I am in two hours.
That Grim part 💔
Tyler off the top rope to close it out. I'm with mo, this was an important stream.
You get to be a child three times. Once as a child, once as a parent, once as a grandparent. If you don't parent, you only get one chance.
Sometimes o think Jess and Shari are a little to soft on Job. I get the vibe he can do no wrong. But then again, I would say the same about Christians in general and Jesus
Jesus didn’t come into the world to condemn it but to save it. God insisted that Job was righteous. I don’t know what else to say.
I’m catching up right now. Had to find out what Chad was on about. I will say this, I have never felt comfortable talking about my journey to Orthodoxy in TLC. So it is a part of me that I don’t feel free to talk about which I find sad. My personal experience has often been that if I say anything I’m met with hostility. So I’m not sure this has anything to do with Luke. I think people have a very unhealthy perspective on Eastern Orthodoxy, for reasons I don’t really understand. Lord have mercy.
My difficulty isint with the church it’s more with the evangelizing when claiming not to evangelize. I’m not claiming to be in the right at all. I was acting very immature and apologize for my offensiveness.
@@ChadTheAlcoholic when someone is claiming not to be evangelizing I think we should take them at face value. I know when I decide to believe to someone, I hear them very differently.
@@shari6063 again I think my whole point has been missed
@@ChadTheAlcoholic well then maybe you should make it more explicit. I know I’m willing to listen. But my original comment still stands. This space feels very hostile to me when it comes to Orthodox faith and as I said I don’t know why.
I would also add that I thought the whole thing was very unfair to Lance. Lance always speaks from his own experience and has been very engaged in fostering many conversations with people of other denominations in this space.
31:50
Mofo (mother f-ing) post modernism?