ECHO in Wuthering waves has a MASSIVE PROBLEM
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2024
- ⬇️ expand me ⬇️
the ECHO system in Wuthering waves has a MASSIVE PROBLEM,
the problem: it is too grindy for a lot of RNG
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reupload cuz i was skill issued
tenten do wuwa contents let's go
Yeah right, you just wanted more views by blowing this small problem that is easily fixed out of proportion
Here's a few solutions.
1. Have a "recycle shop" where you can use of a lower rarity echo to get a higher one and be able to choose their element too.
2. Buff echo drop rates overall by 15%
3. Reduce the number of mainstats you can posibly role( aero echoes can only gain aero damage bonus, no more flat attack and hp for the first main stat).
4. Add some sort of grindable item which allows you to choose substats, or just make that option availabe with tuners, but at a higher cost(3 tuners per substat reveal)
5. Reduce the amount of varied values between substats to 2-3.
6. Make it so you can feed useless echoes into other ones regardless of their level.
increase "shiny" droprate or have some type of material to reroll substat( just like reroll affix on stigmata in HI3) is a good idea too
I think mainstat rng is fine if they just fix tacet field rewards and remove def. No 50/50 on mobs and boss tacet field should have a chance to drop echo on the rewards. Also lower the stamina cost would help and being able to reroll substat using tuners or echo of the same kind similar to pgr.
@@mgiang0037shiny rn is really weird the only ones we can get are ones that are purchased from end game content and the overworld ones only spawn in dedicated locations terrible way for the shiny system to work hope they actually make it good before release
@@mgiang0037that would ruin the term, "shiny = rare" but having a technique or like in pokemon where there are gimmicks to have higher reates is quite good, imo.
Im a pokemon player btw
@Enol_A4 yea I just think make them very rare but allow us to customize stats
I think a simple fix would be to allow Echos with substats unlocked to be carried over to new echos instead of just going to the void. Another would be increasing the number of 3-cost enemies since I've seen that they are low in number (or just have more friends and pray they aren't farming the echo you want as well). Also, get a return of tuning materials if you fodder a trash echo with subs and don't sacrifice it into another echo.
i agree with the last one, tuner refund after foddering the trash one is fire 🔥
also one more system that can fix the problem imo is like the aether gazer or nikke (i havent played nikke i only know its similar to AG) system where you can lock one or more substat that you want and reroll the other substats with a cost of increased tuner spent. i think this would be a great idea 🙏
The echo system in itself is a pretty wonderful and unique system .. just leveling them up is a pain .. which can be fixed . If total echo was a problem (which it isn't) then it would be disastrous.
I agree. They have to lower the rng. Probably make less sub stats options and make it so the subs show right away. If they did that I feel like it could be a great system
@Bdog4114 higher options, lower chance players get what they want = more likely to stick around to continue chasing for BIS rolls. There's no incentive to make it more player favored.
@TheHeartThatRunsCold I get what your saying but that needs to be a balance. There has to be a chase your right but it can't be so bad that players give up on the Chase. Imo maybe it's a little too against the players. Bc were going to want to use multiple characters.
Just my opinion tho your comment is fait
@@Bdog4114 My comment wasn't based on a need for grind, a chase or anything. From a business standpoint there's no reason to fix it, I detest these mechanics in gachas because they are games where you have no agency, while dealing with rng that's baked in just for retentions sake.
I don't stick with these games because of that, the chase is always artificially too long.
There's a mistake you've made. You said at Rank 5 you have a 100% echo drop, but that's wrong. It's a 100% absorption rate; they're not the same
sry I'm not familiar with the game
What does that difference mean anyways
Ye 100% absorption rate that it’s gonna be a good one
@@ignatoseg4664 ur guaranteed a yellow echo every drop but it’s still 20% drop
@@Tissuestrash oh ic thanks
Also, one thing you missed, YOU CAN feed echoes into others as exp, but they have to be a certain level and it's a 25% exp nerf.
so we cant use lvl 0 green rank echo for xp?
@@tokekch7791 Nope, they have to be leveled up
@@shadowboi8620 so if we delete or scrap the echo, will they turn into something? like material xp or echo shard? or just gone?
@@tokekch7791 u get nothing.
@@tokekch7791it'll be just gone, I tried it
Boosting base echo drop chance and allowing to salvage bricked/unwanted echoes for currency to use is PGR-style "recycle shop" would (mostly) fix the issues. And there's also open question of possible other ways of getting echoes & upgrading them, i.e. through events. Again, in Kuro does that all the time in PGR.
It's good that now both EN and CN is mostly on the same note about this, so Kuro gets clear feedback. And as they are not Hoyo, there's good chance they'll do something about it.
Edit: Oh and the subject of math, getting for instance on-set goblet with proper dmg% is 0.5%, so still a bit worse than WuWa. For the substats, Genshin has (significantly) more RNG layers but WuWa has much more extreme differences within RNG layer.
the issue for me when fighting in the overworld is their camera force snapping..
Its so annoying and will sometimes sink the camera to the ground
Hope they fix what needed to fix cuz this is looking bad already like what do u mean i have to waste precious resources just for it to roll on a bad substat 💀💀
This getting worse than artifact system ngl
Luckily it isn't that BIG of a problem where they will need to rework and scrap the echo system...they only need to fix the balance od the system
Having to level up an echo and THEN use a tuner to actually *SEE* your substats is absolutely ludicrous. I don't know who the hell thought this was a good idea. You thought you hated Genshin artifact rng? May I introduce you to Echo hell.
The way I see it is:
go all in with making a tedious grindfest and get screwed by RNG. Have a little lore but focus mostly on grinding. I hope it does not end up like this but it could
so lets see if wuwa's company actually listen to the players feedback about echos, because this game already looks like the next TOF "the g-game killer"
Im just going to play Zenless Zone Zero and Genshin.
I pray that some day there'll be a gacha has a take on the "equipment with RNG substats" system that isn't terrible for one reason or another, but at the core I imagine it's deliberately to designed pressure people into spending money on stamina refreshes to gamble on the odds more.
Kuro should just reveal substats the moment you get an echo.. that should reduce the grind.
As for bosses, I think they will still be challenging for most players despite the potential power spike from echoes.
Note that most CCs that are PGR players are already very skilled. So they would also mald and git gud in WW and beat higher level bosses and showcase them.
it's insane that they thought the system was okay in this state like did they think these rates and this much rng was okay??? not to mention the amount of substats and getting the level up materials being a whole other phase of grinding on top of the echo grind... anyone with a life is not gonna put up with that shit
Show all the substats, then we can use the tuner thingy to unlock those substats
Given that you want to get personal set for every character that you use, this would be ridiculus.
I don't know if even in a year you can get 6 sets with even 3 good substats.
(and you need 2 team for end game)
Is this a "problem" that they somehow whoopsie-daisy couldn't have possibly forseen?
Or is it just their chosen method of aggressive monetization to bypass the obvious grind, either directly by selling the upgrade mats or indirectly by pushing stamina refresh?
Nah even whale still need to explore the whole map
Which is bad for whale tbh
The exp problem reminds me of Pokemon Generation 2 (Gold/Silver/Crystal). The exp grind is so bad in that game and the "true final boss" has pokemon nearly double and of your levels. One idea was generally you're supposed to be forced into using strategy instead of mindless grind for easy W. Maybe that is the deal here. It also does seem at a glance that echoes are more universal than G Game's artifacts. W Game's character kits are more baked in instead of needing echoes? No need to work on only 1 character for a team at time?
But the other issue that has plagued many games is exactly the bad RNG progression for gear. People will always complain about horrible progression and that is less abstract than "I'm gud at dis game". More people than not prefer seeing their list of shiny, good gear after sinking in lots of time. This echo stuff better get rebalanced if they want to continue having good PR.
There are sonata effect sets, and almost all of them have different mobs, elites, and bosses.
1. One way to remove pointless layer if RNG would be to make the set name be tied to the mob type: like havoc wolf only dropping Havoc Eclipse set (this one is realistic even for gacha time-sink),
2. Additional way is for example elite Havoc Wolf echo elemental% bonus should never be anything other than Havoc Damage, that razor-bug-car thing should not drop havoc damage or glacio, only aero or other stats like atk%, energy regen.
I think the idea of having a way to get the drops without energy is great but having not only 1 but TWO energy restricted materials to actually unlock and see how good or bad the piece is make it so the fun part is completly null, and drag the progression too much. Honestly having 1 time gated mechanic and having the lines reveal when you upgrade the echos will make it a lot less time consuming. The other thing is I think is fine if people can beat the current challenge content since It is tied to your grind for gear so if you need already relative solid builds to beat it then it will be really frustrating.
This is easy to fix:
- No flat substats
- No mismatch set to main stat
- More 3 cost mob on map
- Reroll options for substats
- Better field for echos
- Getting something from scrapping echos
- Transfer other echo stats on shiny (or max substats on shiny echo)
Question is how much they want torture us with grind.
hahahaha dream on
1. Echo rarity are data bank gated
2. Drop rate chances
3. Mainstat
4. Substat
5. Sonata effect stats
So these are the layers of RNG … it's not looking good imo. Especially on the rarity part as it is data bank gated, it's not appealing (dunno the correct word to say). Yes, there is that we can farm them unlimited BUT only for the bosses - what about the world mobs? They way for them to reset is server reset, and this isn't an MMO either where mobs respawn within just minutes or seconds, we're talking about per day here. Sure we can go for co-op, what if the player isn't into coops? I mean, not because we have friends and can coop anytime, doesn't mean we are to disregard the solo/casual players. I do hope they do an overhaul of the echo farming, it's really not looking good if it's just me.
Possible changes into mind.
1. Let echo rarity be Union Level gated instead. I don't think there is any problem if they do this since there is still the "drop chance". Coz obtaining each rarity is already tedious enough just by watching the video - it's a rinse and repeat process. It will basically end up the same thing as leveling data bank to lvl.20 where we have 100% acquisition for the yellow grade one.
-- As for the data bank, it can just serve as a collection archive of some sort where if it reaches certain level, we get the rewards. Technically not tied to the drop chances and possible rarity acquisition anymore.
2. and 3. I guess are fine as it is.
4. I think there isn't any problem if they'll make it like the G game. Instead of playing blind date, just show the sub stats and stats can just upgrade along with leveling the echo - this is to avoid wasting resources. As for the tuner, well they can just make some use of it, if not remove that mechanic completely.
5. They can just keep the sonata effects as is instead of getting a sonata effect through rng. Like if the echo has either fusion or havoc, why not both just be there instead. I don't think this kills the idea of farming, let's take note that there is still the drop chance so it doesn't really kill it.
Well, these are just my opinion. Though if they keep it as is, then I dunno - boost the drop rates instead.
Why do I need farm two bosses? If I am farming Crownless for example, I have 20% to drop echo. If its not dropped, than next one will be guaranteed. So why do I need second boss? If i am doing second boss, I am losing this 20% chance, coz pity working on 1 boss as well, I dont need second for.
wait 10:00 did he said "coop mode"??
the one thing i think biggest problem is the cost of simulation training and tacet field
simulation training is 40 waveplate
tacet field is 60 waveplate
having high cost of stamina the rewards amount is no where good
in G game its only 20 resin and the fact that you have a double change getting a reward with that cost of stamina
tacet field is like a artifact/relic dungeon
the RNG in the tacet field is 2 resonance(element )and cost of the monster only
In open world you can farm cost 1(common) and 3(elite) monster in exchange of RNG dealing 9 resonance(elements)
the cost of upgrading echo is kinda expensive..
In Genshin (yeah i'm not afraid of namin a game...) you have less stamina to use and you have more chars to lvl up for one team and we don't know how generous they will be with event reward or even what are the real reward when max lvl in this stages or what is realy needed to fully upgrade chars or echoes in a long run.
Another comparaison to a game that i'm not afraid to name... PGR, the stage to grind mats cost a lot for not so much but in reality they give you so much free stuff in events that you barely need to grind this stages and end up with more mats than needed anyway.
And no, the 1 and 3 cost echoes don't come with 9 variance in the set, they have 2 or 3 variance per echoes.
@liaflora
what no? there are 9 resonance echo in the game
Freezing Frost
Molten Rift
Void Thunder
Sierra Gale
Celestial Light
Havoc Eclipse
Rejuvenating Glow
Moonlit Clouds
Endless Resonance
so if you are aiming for cost 3 Sierra Gale with an Aero Damage main stats or cost 1 Sierra Gale with ATK mainstats
well good luck with that.. might take a while
you can do 2 - 2 set anyway so any resonance with your pref elemental damage if you want too
@@-casuallyAverage Yes there is 9 sets but not every echoes can be of this 9 sets... When you are looking for a specific echo of your set (cost 1 or 3) this echoes can be from 2 or 3 different set not 9...
@@prisciliaflora oh copy
I think rock echo is doing the rank challenges
It's easy to fix and yet they haven't done it for 10 months because I think they want to keep players in the game longer so the longer you play the more chance you have of spending money, this is a philosophy copied from mihoyo...
This game will be more free to play friendly than Genshin. They are apparently bringing the Gatcha in line with PGR. What this means is the hard pity for characters will be around 60 you still won't be able to lose a 50/50 twice and Kuro usually showers you with rewards in events including free pulls and resources to level characters, echoes, and weapons. Also S rank selectors in PGRs case as time goes on they may do the same with WuWa.
@@cynthiahembree3957 It's not hard to make a game more friendly to f2p players than genshin, because they don't give a damn about them, literally 90% of gacha games on the market are more f2p, so it's not a big deal.
@@Ainnoway1937 Well duh but I mean much more. In their other game PGR if you just play the game and complete the events you'll be able to get every character including signature weapons as a F2P player. There are people who have actually done that as F2P players. That's more what I mean. If you play accordingly it'll be fine. Also the free battlepass gives you items that can regen your stamina so it's basically fine
@ahembree3957 PGR is much cheaper game to maintain compare to wuwa i doubt they will giving out so many freebies on wuwa genshin require like 200 million budget to keep up genshin how about wuwa ? the game is more complex more detailed much superior version of genshin how much do you think they require to maintain the game ? so i can't blame them if kuro game seem turned being greedy because game like genshin is really expensive
yeah this guy looks exactly how i imagined. lol.
u can call it 3 game too
aw shiet we got green screen tenten
This post was fact checked by REAL gacha gaymers: True
I really do hope they make it less tedious. Because the one system that pushes me away from keep on playing GI and HSR is the artifact system. At some point it feels like a chore.
But do the others want WuWa to be easier than the casual games tho? Because I see people argue that they don't want this game to be easy (in every aspect) like the G game and HSR which is for casual.
@@famimame what does that have to do with the Echo/Artifact system
@@90enemies I mean do people really want this game to be easier to min max compared to a casual game?
@@famimame Dawg, this has nothing to do with difficulty. It's just a time sink. Just because it takes more Stamina and Steps doesn't make it a "Hardcore" Game compared to GI/HSR it makes it a tedious one. Or do you genuinely believe having to farm Tuners just to see the Substats makes it a better game?
Do people not play WuWa for the combat?
I initially hard disagreed with you here but I lurked in your stream last night and listened to the conversations and yea I was being an idiot. This system isn't awful but it 100% needs work.
maybe just add data bank xp on 1st kill, 5 kills, 10 kills, 20 kills on all bestiary, ez fix
imean they give us scraps for echo xp that is the only issue i have.
i thought i was having dejavu 😂
So Tenten sensei can't it be just fixed if you get a echo domain like the G game. Or like in PGR have event domains that drop points that you trade for echos or other materials of your desire?
they actually have another system in PGR they could use. Basically you can force stats
didn't u play xianling ?
To be honest, having limitless echo farming wouldn't even be desirable in my opinion, because mobile games aren't usually meant for 24/7 play. That said, being unable to equip your characters in a reasonable time due to RNG is a major concern. Farming endgame gear is NOT supposed to be fast and easy, as it's endgame content, HOWEVER there are few things as terrible in games than feeling that the many hours you spent on it were turned into useless effort simply because of bad RNG. I'm already tired of useless artifact domain spam, which is the major reason i quit genshin, and if i won't be guaranteed a better RNG protection than what i already had to deal with, there will be no point in playing Wuthering Waves for me.
I just want lesser RNG and a bit of player control.
If they're marketing Wuthering Waves as a combat-oriented gacha game, they perhaps sould gain inspiration from their first game PGR regarding its systems. In PGR, the fun and grind is in the combat and not RNG from memories. Not saying that WW should literally implement an almost no RNG in echoes (memories in PGR) where only the hypertune has RNG and even then could be eradicated with hypertune selectors.
I just want the grind to not have like 5 layers of RNG.
echo reality
Already fixing lmao
Nier music was a great choice
40 to 60 wtf dats stupidly expensive guess ill have to sticlk to 2 stats lmao 😂
I hope they change it im still traumatized by grinding genshin artifacts
😂 I think this is no better than the artifact 😂
They announced that they improved it
how do u fix it then
G game? Sounds like ToF behavior
"G Game" is crazy. It's not Voldemort. Just say Genshin.
No thanks.
maybe they made farming echos really hard so no one gets carried by their crazy echoes but rather skill
Kekwait
Infinite echo means much harder to get= waste of time, not good for casual player
Casuals are not players and they do not matter.
Do casual needs to min max ? No. So i don't see the point.
@@yomoheiliv6375Savage Deviljho, Alatreon, Lunastra and many other big baddies want to know your address.
But trust me, Alatreon is an elder dragon that trolls with unexpected one shots.
All you need are the main stats if your a casual player. I'll admit it could use some QoL changes for people that are going to push their accounts.
@@yomoheiliv6375 with this mindset a game will EOS as soon as it drops
The "G" game made u bruv. I don't get why this hate towards something that many enjoy
You never enjoyed genshin. You are just a Mihoyo whiteknight stopping the game from improving.
@@yomoheiliv6375 genshin builded a mansion for free in your head
As you can see from the upvotes on the "whitknight" spamming moron, this is what Kuro fans want to hear. They consist almost exclusively of bitter ex hoyo players.
I don't mind if they want to do CBT 3 as long as they fix all of their issues and listen to suggestions during CBT 3. I really want this game to succeed.
They can't by CN law.
Beta with shop is always last beta.
@@offnet6934 that suck, hope they have enough time to fix all the issues.
@@dad6666_ It's all much more minor than people are acting. They are making this out to be something that will take months to fix when it will not. For all we know they've already fixed it in the dev build. Basically they could add another resource that is obtainable through certain challenge reward shops that lest you force the RNG. PGR actually has this so I'm not that worried. Everything else falls under bug fixing, QoL(unironically all the echo system needs is QoL) and localization polish and proofreading. And again we have no way of knowing what is in the dev build.
@@cynthiahembree3957 yeah I think so, I think the only my concern is just the Echo, hope it less grindy than Genshin. I think anything else is easy to fix such text mismatch and other minor.
Hmmm sound super grindy
But again it's not like we never do this before G game came out
it's just different target market
Still better than farming a small domain for only 4 times a day for a 1% chance to get a good artifact.
I miss tenten and his negative but realistic and helpful reviews
@10:38 here's the solution to your problem with substat RNG. This game will weigh skill expression more than stat or substat. This is a big difference between Kuro and Hoyo game philosophies. Players could care much less about substats in this game, if you are a genshin meta slave going in to this game, i am sure it is quite a culture shock.
@sfelgrand2605
I'll ask a simple question (I didn’t look at the details from the Beta-tests, correct me if this is wrong): Are there any timed battles in the game? Or the conditions of challenges/end content related to the counter of received hits, remaining HP, or continuous combo?
If the enemy cannot be "cheezed out" and you must to focus on speedy execution... Well, there is no point in talking about some kind of skill and mastery in battle - big stats would make lion part of such fights.
It's the same we want from the g game let us choose the sub Stat. Please.
SMALL problem, this is easily fixed, you guys love to blow things out of proportion
He is a Mihoyo whiteknight after all.
Talk big, give your solution then. provided dev even wants to fix
@@callmeunclejehuty_v2987 how is this talking big? Don’t be ridiculous
Lol, this is just a numbers problem, increase the chances and that’s it, nothing major, and if people voice the concerns in the beta they will change it, this is kuro we are talking about, and this is a BETA, what do you think it is for?🤦
This is a problem that is easy to fix as hell, you guys love making a show, that’s all
It's a problem for speedrunners.... But not for explorers.
They fix 90% of the story that really hard to do so dis echo it be easy people need stop to worry
Still though, voicing their concerns is important for the game's development, as long as the devs are listening to feedback of course
We need to voice our concerns, that way they would know why we our unhappy.
EDIT: Remember Critique/Criticism ≠ Toxic/Negative
@@mr.edelweiss Yeah the problem is a lot of these creators are making a mountain out of a molehill. They are acting like this will take months to fix when what is mostly needed is QoL changes. They could even take a page out of their own book with how PGR handles it.
seem like SKILL ISSUE LMAO
The Mihoyo whiteknight inside TenTen finally coming out to dish on WW.
?
??
Blindly dismissing valid criticism because you don't like the competitor, who's the whiteknight again?
are you ok?
man the game haven't been officially release and we can already find WuWhiteknight deafening their ears on criticism.
G game? Damm Genshin really butt hurted you
Mihoyo whiteknight troll
@@yomoheiliv6375 ?
i dont see the problem with how it works
I think still better then genshin. in genshin you farm 2 months you might didn't get anything in this game you can get gold gear in day one
Play lvl 90 domains gold rarity + usable purples (they may have good substats) will drop every freakin' run and sometimes even two golds.
I don't know what you have been doing.
2 month farming time is for hypercasual. If you can't survive farming artifact in Genshin for at least 3 months which is a casual game, I don't think you're going to make it in WuWa to be honest. @got3269
Yiu realise genshi wuwa artifacts have 15.8 times more substat combinations than genshin ones, right?
I dont understand why most people want ez system. Games need grindable stuff. Genshin would be more than dead if the artifact is easy to perfect cos you have nothing more to do. People want more things to do. If the grindier stuff doesnt really affect the endgame that much, as in you can 36 abyss even with ok-ish artifact, having more grindier stuff is FINE. It keeps the game going.
Genshin is dead because it lacks endgame content.
grindier stuff is fine but RNG gearing system nope