Always make sure you have correct sparkplug heat range. Melt hole in 2 stroke piston,within 1 mile with wrong plug 😉 ( might have to run cooler sparkplug heat range,with steel sleeves holding in heat?) (A bigger main jet, will help cool cylinder temps) Might lose some performance running rich,but will keep more cool gas cooling cylinder. Add extra oil to premix,so gas does not wash cylinder wall clean. Leaking crank seals, intake boots, will lean fuel mixture in cylinder. Don't forget to LocTite everything on a 2 stroke😂 The head of a bolt works well,when you don't have a 20mm Allen wrench available. (Front axle bolts) Always adjust drive chain from the tightest spot. ( hold finger against chain,and spin rear wheel, you will feel the tight spot, adjust from there) That steel chain ,is alot stronger than aluminum engine cases 😬 Do Not Buy Cheap Tires😊
I had a 06 cr125 with steel liner do the same. You must drill lube holes in the exhaust side of the piston to help cool/lube the exhaust bridge. The exhaust bridge on the cylinder should also be releived to allow for heat expansion as it is thin and heats up quicker. You must also run slightly larger piston clearance with a steel liner. And lastly if you use a forged piston do a few heat cycles and also warm up engine for longer before going on track. Once I did all these to my cr125 it ran flawlessly and a steel liner can be oversized many times. I too ran the br8 plug. Glad your CR250 is alive again, great video. 👍
Thanks for the insight Jason, this is awesome. It was a cast piston that was in there but never knew that the bike needed to be warmed up even longer than a nikasil cylinder with a steel sleeve. Now I know! I'll have to look into drilling the piston as well. You haven't been the only one that has mentioned this. Seems like a pretty regular thing CR250R owners do. Thanks again!
Glad you found the OEM Honda cylinder. Last year it took me 3 months to find one for a 2003 250. The design for the cast piston and tolerance is designed for a Nikasil cylinder . You should not have a problem again with the top end. Make sure you get the right piston for A or B cylinder. Vertex piston kit are the best. They have been OEM and race team pistons for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porcshe etc. They are way better than Pro X which are OEM quality.
On a iron sleeve, it needs to be clearance for expansion. And we drill oiling holes in the piston to lube the bridge. But it also look like a classic cold seizure. It may have been a touch lean too, but it looks more like a cold seizure, rode it hard without warming it up, and maybe not properly relieved the exauast bridge. What oil and fuel were you running? Some oils tune different than others on the plug, the same tune can be nearly white on the porcelain, and others will be black. To do a true plug check, you need to make some plug chops with a fresh plug, it that plug had some time on it it’s not a great example of the tune.
Thanks for sharing that awesome insight Nathan! I hadn't been familiar with a steel sleeve before but now I know for sure that they need to be warmed up well before hammering them. I'll have to do the plug chops checks for sure.
Almost looks like someone forgot to put oil in the gas. I'm sure it's not but that's crazy. I always do about 6 or 9 slow kicks to prime her up on my 03 and she fires right up. Thanks for the follow up video.
Spark plug number was fine. Color wise was close af too. I'd call it one step lean. I'd go one jet richer on the main. The sleeve I'd almost guarantee was the issue. Steel not only holds more heat , but reacts slower dimensionally to temperature changes as well. going from cruising to balls out, Even after being warmed up can cause problems. A forged piston an make this even more of an issue. I'd say the sleeve in conjunction with being just a hair lean is what did it. A nikasil bore would have likely ran on that same jetting forever simply because the bore can react to temp changes faster as well as shed heat faster.
Thanks for the awesome feedback Shane! After hearing more people react, I do think it had to do with not warming up the sleeve well enough. Luckily it was still a cast piston that I had put in for that first rebuild. But glad I was able to grab a new OEM cylinder so I'm thinking we should be good to go!
4 corner seize. Piston expanded faster than the cylinder. With a steel sleeve you have to run a bit more clearance than with a nik cylinder. More of a problem with forged pistons than cast pistons because the manufactures of cast can change the recipe on the metal to help with expansion. But with that steel sleeve you are going to want to run more clearance than the nik. Other thing is to make sure you heat soak the motor before ripping on it.
That's some solid info my dude! I wish had had known that in the first place about the steel sleeve but I'm just not familiar with them enough. Bummed the shop I took it too didn't share this knowledge with me 1) about the clearance thing, and 2) making sure it gets warmed up GOOD. I gave him the piston when he put the sleeve in too...great learning experience however!
My 06 250 did the same thing same marks exactly. So I wonder you talked-about the p.v.over rotation. I think that's it oh my power valve was sticking the same as yours . Thanks for the video .
Dang that sucks dude! Yeah setting the RC valve on these bikes can be pretty tricky with the cables and everything. Hope it's not too bad of a fix for you.
Dude Back in the day I ran an rs125 Honda road race bike and we all found you need to feed oil to the bridge in the exhaust via two 1.5 holes drilled in the piston to keep the bridge lubed and cool. You can also waist the bridge away slightly as it will grow slightly when hot. Also looks like the bore is just to small. The burn looks good to me.
I've heard about drilling the piston on the exhaust bridge side. I wasn't too familiar with it at the time. Also been hearing that the sleeve could have used a little more clearance as well. I'm a little bummed that the shop that put the sleeve in didn't tell me this. I gave him the piston when he did the work...
Make sure you listen for any pinging. When the engine is running. That is the sound of detonation. Detonation has even been known to break cranks in half. The reason it's so destructive is because it causes the fuel to explode.While the piston is still on, it's up travel.So that's like 2 trucks hitting head on.You know what I mean.
Great scientific video with great comments. Possibilities that come to mind. -Slightly lean -B Piston in fresh bore, maybe not matched perfectly -Piston expands faster than cylinder, tolerance may have been slightly off -Vertex Pistons are best, comes with lube holes -Amsoil lubes best, Saber or Dominator, yield from soy beans at break-in -Never use pump gas with ethanol in these years , I’m sure you didn’t Nonetheless this is a great video and I really enjoyed watching it with my morning coffee.
Haha I love that you enjoyed it to your morning coffee, I appreciate the feedback as well. It was definitely lean. I was actually a vertex piston but don't recall any holes in it, I will have to double check that!
Hey bro I would check the squish on that piston. Because it looks like your old piston was the victim of some hardcore detonation. The way the rings were pinched into the ring lands that wasn't from carbon or anything, that was from the piston being smashed and that's caused by detonation from having too high a compression ratio and not good enough fuel.. Either make sure you run much higher octane fuel orl run a lower compression dome
Those motors are known for needing the exhaust bridge relieved and piston drilled in line with the exhaust bridge to guarantee a long strong life. It looks like that was the failure to me the way the rings are jammed into he piston perfectly in line with the bridge. I didn't here you mention it but at 16:37 I thought I could see the bridge ground down.
Just subbed, just bought a freshened up '02 just like yours. I just ordered a Lectron pro 38. Top/bottom end has 5hrs on it. The kid I bought it from did new OE head and Wiseco forged but deleted the Front RC cable w spring and ran the springless part on both sides. I hope it works out long term. I may have to get the correct spring side to install and follow the demysitfied RC vid you talked about to set it up correctly. So many people since '02 were blind leading the blind w power valve bad advice on forums in turn gave this bike a bad rap.
Right on dude! I would highly suggest watching that video for the proper set up and history lesson on it. Brian does a great job explaining it and helped me tremendously. Congrats on the bike, hope it's a ripper for you💨💨
That piston crown and spark plug look cleaner/leaner than I prefer to run my 2 strokes. They shouldn't be goopy or oily, but I would expect some carbon pattern on the top of the piston.
I also noticed that that cylinder has a bridge on the exhaust and the piston didn't have any holes drilled in it , that'll cause failure all the time , most piston manufacturers usually have it in the instructions ot the holes will be in the piston already
Great videos. The piston is was not drilled along where it comes into close proximity to the exhaust bridge. I’m assuming the cylinder still had the exhaust bridge. Again, great videos.
It was not drilled no. Wasn’t familiar with doing that on the CRs until all of the comments on this video! Thanks for the feedback Cody, much appreciated
Pumped on how everything came out with this time around. I really appreciate the marker tip, it was a game changer, and confirming that it's normal to have to work them a million times before as well. Thank you Luke!
@@GregHitchko Yessir, Thanks again for putting the information out there where it can help others. I think we suffered enough for everyone. On to the next struggle lol
Rad! Glad she’s back together from looking at that plug I feel like it still might be a little lean. I know lean is mean but rich will get you home 😎 took me awhile to dial in my billetron but it’s happy now so far 👍🏻 glad to see the CR rollin!
Haha "rich will get you home" I dig that, Evan! It was for sure a little lean, probably shouldn't have leaned out the Billetron the day before like I did, but it had a pretty bad bog down low when we were testing the day before. But now we know! Thanks for the feedback man.
I've had bad luck with two-stroke cylinder sleeves. I bet if you had that cylinder plated it still would have seized. had really good luck with the OEM Honda Pistons.
I have a 2001 CR250 and always run a oem piston with oem cylinder and never have any issues. If you run aftermarket forged pistons make sure to warm up the engine completely before beating on it. Forged pistons will expand at different rates than the cylinder.
@@GregHitchko few years ago I had la sleeve resleeve my 1979 RM 400 cylinder. the new sleeve lasted about 2 hours the Piston was slapping around so bad I thought I had blown the bottom end out of the bike and yes they sleeved to the brand new piston that I gave them and yes I mixed the gas 20 to 1 ratio just like the Suzuki manual suggests
You could've totally gotten that subframe straight with a bit of light heat and a cheater bar. 8 plug is proper heat range. Steel sleeve? What're you, nuts? This ain't the 70s.
After sitting or a rebuild pull the choke and kick it through slowly about 10 times to build a good intake charge in the cases, should start easily then.
Lube hole are VERY important on these cr250 because of the thin bridge in the center of the exhaust port. Wiseco pistons for these bikes come with 2 lube holes predrilled right where the exhaust bridge is. I runs these just because they are pre drilled and very high quality. No stress of drilling it your self and worrying about messing it up.
Thanks for dropping that knowledge Joseph, I didn’t know that the wiseco pistons already had those holes drilled into the piston already. Super convenient!
The only thing that could do that would be heat via combustion and the combination of friction and an insufficient bore. Could be a cold start, lean fuel condition, small bore, large ring set. Interesting that it got munched on the exhaust side. Maybe the piston needs some lube holes? Or the heat on the exhaust side is burning out the pre mix? Not sure about the steel sleeve theory never had one.
Thanks for the input my man! Definitely strange. Perhaps cold start and not warming it up enough with the steel sleeve. Seems like that could have been a major contributing factor to it.
if you just angle the adapter 90 degrees you don't have to do any calculations at all. also if it's 1" or less extension, you also don't need to calculate. this is all coming from the aviation AME handbook
Exhaust bridge needs relieving piston needs bridge holes squish is probably to big also timing could be to advanced or running to lean. Biggest things that make 2 strokes get hot
A bunch of people have commented on relieving the exhaust bridge on these cylinders. Never knew, but now I do! I really appreciate that insight and feedback Robert. Thank you
I mentioned it before you pulled this apart previously - steel sleeves require both more piston to bore clearance and more bridge relief. This is a result of both those being ineadequate. The jetting is a little lean for pump fuel (not sure if that's what you ran) but even still - properly built a bike can get too lean and not blow up if designed for the fuel used... You can NOT run same specs for clearances as is run on a plated cyl. Additionally we have found the specified clearances suggested by wiseco are usually too tight if running their piston. Just my 2 cents.
That’s great insight, thank you for sharing that. I do think the clearances could have been a little too tight with that sleeve in there. What’s frustrating though is that I included the piston with the cylinder when the shop put the new sleeve in…you would think that a well known shop known for doing this would know?
@@GregHitchko Good 2 builders are becoming rare. Most machinists go off "spec" and not testing knowledge. Sleeves are "sort of" a thing of the past - and for good reason. On a 250 they will usually be 1.5-2 hp worse vs an identical plated cylinder. So most places just set it to "spec" and then blame the user when it fails. Even the plating companies are doing really poor jobs of bridge clearance and chamfers on replates. There are a few "old school" guys left who still work on engines that had sleeves stock (banshees and such) - and I've had to lean on them for advice whenever dealing with a sleeve. My first attempts ended in disaster just like yours...and of course I knew it was too tight in operating condition - but had no idea where to begin in the "window" of clearances that would work. The other issue on a sleeve is it will really require good warm up and good piston warm up (different) - because when cold it the clearance is huge and they rattle - plus more frequent piston replacement because when they rattle it's harder on the piston! Plating came about and has its flaws but from a performance standpoint - it's so much better.
@@HPRaceDevelopment I can’t express how awesome this knowledge and feedback is my man! Next time I tear into an engine, I will have to give you a call so we can FaceTime or whatever to review what’s going on with it and get your expert opinion. Live and learn and that’s what happened with using the sleeve. Cost me a bit more money but the knowledge gained is invaluable that is for sure 🙌🏼💨
Hondas don't like steel bores but usually it just makes the bike noisier. it does increase heat since steel doesn't conduct heat as well but that alone should not blow up your bike. and if your plug was a heat range too hot and your lean and running less oil that is a disaster waiting to happen
The 8 does look like the stock plug number, and the mixture was 32:1. Strange the other bikes didn't have an issue but really could have been from me leaning out the lectron just a little like I mentioned in my other reply.
NGK-R BR8EG B: CASE THREAD PITCH R: RESIATOR TYPE PLUG 8: HEAT RANGe E: REACH G: RACING USE. HIGHER THE NUMBER LOWER THE HEAT RANDGE LETTER AT END CAN ALSO MEAN THE HEAT RANGE IS .5 OVER
Is that Thick head made by Honda Factory Racing ...CO... ? With that amount of damage to the piston and cylinder, I would do a FULL ON Re - Built on that engine and go HONDA RACING FACTORY spec on everything .... only if I had the money to spend on things of that nature . Can't wait too to see her all done and put together ....... love the video from beginning to end and to see her back alive again wow brought me tears of joy well done very well done ...... 👌🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Haha love that it brought you tears of joy my man! It is a Phathead Racing Head actually. That's why I went with the OEM cylinder, and that proX piston is pretty much OEM since they come out of the same factory👍🏼
i ride a cr 250 2006, and in manuel is right plug is br9eg, i think your engine was to hot with the br8eg or run it to lean or where the piston too big?
I'm going to bump up the number on the plug for sure! Thing is, when I got it resleeved, I gave the piston to the shop as well so he could match it up. I didn't even think to check the clearance, I just assumed that he did that and everything was cool. But you know what they say about assuming....
Throw that cylinder in the bin, it’s clearly the reason your bike blew up. Now you’ll sell it to some other poor bastard who will go through the same thing. The bigger problem is that most people think getting forged piston is the best way to go because, hey, drag cars have them 🥴. Just go with Nikasil plated OEM and cast piston every time. If you can’t avoid having a steel sleeved cylinder (CR 500’s have them) avoid forged pistons and make sure your clearances are in spec. Have your bike jetted correctly at 40:1 high quality oil. To anyone that disagrees, enjoy spending money on rebuilds 😉.
Not dissing you but why would you sleeve a 2T? You do know Millennium Technologies in Wisconsin exists? I have a bike and German car shop and never use steel sleeves in either for this reason (unless it’s OEM like XR bikes). Nikasil all bikes and alusil all German motors. They run another 200k miles like that.
I set my at .060 with the cool head Your power value may have hit your piston. My kids yz125 did this to. In Remove the little bit of material off it So it could not touch the piston
lectrons are known for being very lean and blowing bikes up. it was probably too lean. also make sure your running 32:1 for oil. If that was my plug I wouldn't be happy. plug should be a darker brown in color.
You're right about the plug! Wasn't bad but it was running lean for sure. I shouldn't have leaned it out the little bit the day before, but man, it just that this gnarly bog down low when you went to get on it. It was dangerous. But now we know for next time, makes sense because I went richer on alll the other bikes with the Lectrons. I appreciate the feedback my dude!
@@GregHitchko yeah man on my 2021 yz250 when I got my lectron I have went a whole 1.5 turns fatter on the pilot and a half turn on the metering rod and it's only a little tiny bit on the rich side which I like 👍
Great question! I've had buddies run the B piston in the A cylinder without a problem for years. The clearance is .050 rather than the recommended .060-.075. A little tight isn't bad for the cast piston. The A ProX piston is 66.34mm and the B is 66.35mm Keep you posted on how it goes for me. I appreciate the feedback!
Run the original mikuni carb with a 420 main. The lectron possibly ran the fuel way lean. These engines are junk 🙁unfortunately don’t push them too hard & I would use the oem ngk br9eg n8 plug ⚡️I had on 07, loved the geometry!
That is for sure a possibility! Funny thing is, it was running so rich we had to lean it out, and it still seemed rich. The geometry of the bikes is awesome though for sure. Thanks for the comment Jordan!
@@TORKiT Right on! They look cool and they have larger cooling ports to allow more coolant through, meaning cooler operating temps as well. Code GREG10 will save you money on one if you decide to go that direction!
I like my plugs to be a chocolate color little richer on the mix , a fatter jet on the main , as far as the sleeve I've seen the sleeves actually drop drop bad fitment or poor machine work is use a nickesil cylinder
I've also heard that the installation of the sleeve could be the problem, it could move and be a little off. I'll have to investigate it closer to see, but I didn't notice anything by glancing at it quick
@@GregHitchko the reason I say that is I replaced one for one of my snowmobiles that has sleeves , I put the cylinder in the oven at 475 degrees and the sleeve came grit out I put new one in while it was still hot left it cool down everything lined up perfect two days of riding and the sleeve moved and fuct my engine all up .
@@larrywarner9314 holy shit Larry! That sounds like a horror story. Thanks for sharing. Didn't know they could move that easy when exposed to heat like that but then again, I am not familiar with how they are installed, removed, etc.
Bro send it to millennium technology get that thing re nickeled only takes them like 2 weeks for u to get it back from the day u send it I’ve sent multiple cylinders over the years never waited to long to get them back they will even beef up bridges between ports
Matt, thanks for that feedback! This was more a story video but going forward I'm going to create strict process videos without the extra fluff. Cheers man
Long story short, I should have confirmed the work that the shop did when they put the sleeve in it, but didn't. Just threw it together without checking the ring end gap, lesson learned.
Lean enough to lock up. Dirtbike channel did the same with a cr and lectron. Ditch those carbs, they're good for trails and technical riders but not high revvers.
They do work great in the trail, but I have also had great experience on my Lectron on my KX250 over the past 2 years, never had an issue. Could have gone back richer on it for sure with the CR like I did with the other bikes.
@@GregHitchko the mikuni TMX is hard to dial in but they aren't a bad carb. Both my boys bikes run the same carb, you just need to experiment a little bit. The PWK is a great carb and easy to dial in with more output than the lectron in my experience. I'm out of Utah county if you ever need a hand. We love to build bikes and you did a great job on those.
@@panic-revv85 Right on! I don't disagree that the PWK can push more output than the Lectron. More things to fine tune. But sounds good to me, we're probably neighbors lol
@@GregHitchko I ride an 04 CR250 with the stock Mikuni. It takes more tuning, more often (my bike is somewhat sensitive to temperature changes) but the carb works awesomely. It is never 100% perfect (I run a bit rich most of the time) but I am not losing any performance because of the carb.
@@GregHitchko if you use the s7 nozzle (stock one on the 05-07 cr ) and the recomended jetting specs on the PC webpage, and also correct the squish issue (I don't know if the phathead is designed to do that we should contact Luke to ask that question) but on the stock head one good mod to help with that issue would be to run the 05-07 cylinder gasket that is .20 thinner than the 02-04 gasket.
Ok your piston was to big for your jug Your piston on a still sleeve needs to be .03 than your jug and you did have holes in your picture and no need to bore your jug And you could have sent your jug to power seal and the would of nicked your jug for $300
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I don’t even have a bike yet and already watching this stuff, my brain is loving it.
Heck yeah dude! I love it, hope you grab one soon.
Always make sure you have correct sparkplug heat range.
Melt hole in
2 stroke piston,within 1 mile
with wrong plug 😉
( might have to run cooler sparkplug heat range,with steel sleeves holding in heat?)
(A bigger main jet,
will help cool cylinder temps)
Might lose some performance running rich,but will keep more cool gas cooling cylinder.
Add extra oil to premix,so gas does not wash cylinder wall clean.
Leaking crank seals, intake boots,
will lean fuel mixture in cylinder.
Don't forget to LocTite everything on a 2 stroke😂
The head of a bolt works well,when you don't have a 20mm Allen wrench available.
(Front axle bolts)
Always adjust drive chain from the tightest spot.
( hold finger against chain,and spin rear wheel, you will feel the tight spot, adjust from there)
That steel chain ,is alot stronger than aluminum engine cases 😬
Do Not Buy Cheap Tires😊
I’m a Yamaha guy but man those mid 2000s Honda 2strokes are my favorite looking bikes ever made
I would LOVE to find one of those for a future build. I had an 01 CR125, it was a dog but man I loved it too.
luckily 2 strokes are easy to rebuild. All the other bikes performed great! You did a great job Greg!
They aren't bad at all. Thanks Seth, I always appreciate the feedback!
I had a 06 cr125 with steel liner do the same. You must drill lube holes in the exhaust side of the piston to help cool/lube the exhaust bridge. The exhaust bridge on the cylinder should also be releived to allow for heat expansion as it is thin and heats up quicker. You must also run slightly larger piston clearance with a steel liner. And lastly if you use a forged piston do a few heat cycles and also warm up engine for longer before going on track. Once I did all these to my cr125 it ran flawlessly and a steel liner can be oversized many times. I too ran the br8 plug. Glad your CR250 is alive again, great video. 👍
Thanks for the insight Jason, this is awesome. It was a cast piston that was in there but never knew that the bike needed to be warmed up even longer than a nikasil cylinder with a steel sleeve. Now I know! I'll have to look into drilling the piston as well. You haven't been the only one that has mentioned this. Seems like a pretty regular thing CR250R owners do. Thanks again!
💯👍 Spot on
Glad you found the OEM Honda cylinder. Last year it took me 3 months to find one for a 2003 250. The design for the cast piston and tolerance is designed for a Nikasil cylinder . You should not have a problem again with the top end. Make sure you get the right piston for A or B cylinder. Vertex piston kit are the best. They have been OEM and race team pistons for Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porcshe etc. They are way better than Pro X which are OEM quality.
Finding those cylinders are suuuper rare right? It was tough for me too. Luckily Rocky Mountain had one, now it looks like they have 3 in stock haha.
On a iron sleeve, it needs to be clearance for expansion. And we drill oiling holes in the piston to lube the bridge. But it also look like a classic cold seizure. It may have been a touch lean too, but it looks more like a cold seizure, rode it hard without warming it up, and maybe not properly relieved the exauast bridge. What oil and fuel were you running? Some oils tune different than others on the plug, the same tune can be nearly white on the porcelain, and others will be black. To do a true plug check, you need to make some plug chops with a fresh plug, it that plug had some time on it it’s not a great example of the tune.
Thanks for sharing that awesome insight Nathan! I hadn't been familiar with a steel sleeve before but now I know for sure that they need to be warmed up well before hammering them. I'll have to do the plug chops checks for sure.
Almost looks like someone forgot to put oil in the gas. I'm sure it's not but that's crazy. I always do about 6 or 9 slow kicks to prime her up on my 03 and she fires right up. Thanks for the follow up video.
No doubt my man! It's weird right? It was the same gas I used in the other bikes which didn't have an issue so I guess that can be ruled out.
That's what I'm thinking as well . And also These guys running 110 octane 50 to 1 when they need 32 to 1
@@user-wu9dn6sl9y Amsoil 50:1 is plenty of lube with their 100:1 oil. It can actually load up at 50:1 with theirs it's that's robust ... Just saying
Spark plug number was fine. Color wise was close af too. I'd call it one step lean. I'd go one jet richer on the main. The sleeve I'd almost guarantee was the issue. Steel not only holds more heat , but reacts slower dimensionally to temperature changes as well. going from cruising to balls out, Even after being warmed up can cause problems. A forged piston an make this even more of an issue. I'd say the sleeve in conjunction with being just a hair lean is what did it. A nikasil bore would have likely ran on that same jetting forever simply because the bore can react to temp changes faster as well as shed heat faster.
Thanks for the awesome feedback Shane! After hearing more people react, I do think it had to do with not warming up the sleeve well enough. Luckily it was still a cast piston that I had put in for that first rebuild. But glad I was able to grab a new OEM cylinder so I'm thinking we should be good to go!
Lectrons run lean, and usually on thier case it doesn't translate to power. PWK 38 or a tuned TMX. The metering technology isn't new.
Lectron carbs...
Agreed and Nikasil should be the 2 Stroke standard 👍
Exactly when I was thinking definitely tuned to lean
What a beautiful TOP End 😍 I though I would never say that but that thicck head looks gorgeous on that frame
Thanks mate, it really looks killer, loveee the red Phathead Racing Head
4 corner seize. Piston expanded faster than the cylinder. With a steel sleeve you have to run a bit more clearance than with a nik cylinder. More of a problem with forged pistons than cast pistons because the manufactures of cast can change the recipe on the metal to help with expansion. But with that steel sleeve you are going to want to run more clearance than the nik. Other thing is to make sure you heat soak the motor before ripping on it.
Other way round piston heated up faster ,aluminium heats up quicker
That's some solid info my dude! I wish had had known that in the first place about the steel sleeve but I'm just not familiar with them enough. Bummed the shop I took it too didn't share this knowledge with me 1) about the clearance thing, and 2) making sure it gets warmed up GOOD. I gave him the piston when he put the sleeve in too...great learning experience however!
@@iannsr125 Yeah, what you said 🙂 Thingy in the middle got bigger faster than the thingy around the outside. Edited my post with the right info.
My 06 250 did the same thing same marks exactly. So I wonder you talked-about the p.v.over rotation. I think that's it oh my power valve was sticking the same as yours . Thanks for the video .
Dang that sucks dude! Yeah setting the RC valve on these bikes can be pretty tricky with the cables and everything. Hope it's not too bad of a fix for you.
Dude
Back in the day I ran an rs125 Honda road race bike and we all found you need to feed oil to the bridge in the exhaust via two 1.5 holes drilled in the piston to keep the bridge lubed and cool. You can also waist the bridge away slightly as it will grow slightly when hot. Also looks like the bore is just to small.
The burn looks good to me.
I've heard about drilling the piston on the exhaust bridge side. I wasn't too familiar with it at the time. Also been hearing that the sleeve could have used a little more clearance as well. I'm a little bummed that the shop that put the sleeve in didn't tell me this. I gave him the piston when he did the work...
Make sure you listen for any pinging.
When the engine is running. That is the sound of detonation. Detonation has even been known to break cranks in half. The reason it's so destructive is because it causes the fuel to explode.While the piston is still on, it's up travel.So that's like 2 trucks hitting head on.You know what I mean.
Congratts to your family and to you both being Mom and Dad.
Enjoy cause time flies
Thank you very much Andreas!
Great scientific video with great comments. Possibilities that come to mind.
-Slightly lean
-B Piston in fresh bore, maybe not matched perfectly
-Piston expands faster than cylinder, tolerance may have been slightly off
-Vertex Pistons are best, comes with lube holes
-Amsoil lubes best, Saber or Dominator, yield from soy beans at break-in
-Never use pump gas with ethanol in these years , I’m sure you didn’t
Nonetheless this is a great video and I really enjoyed watching it with my morning coffee.
Haha I love that you enjoyed it to your morning coffee, I appreciate the feedback as well. It was definitely lean. I was actually a vertex piston but don't recall any holes in it, I will have to double check that!
OEM is the only way to go. Non stock bs always causes issues. If the frame is tweeked, its been flipped. You are lucky to find parts for it.😂
Great videos . Just bought a 2006 cr250 here in the UK . Definitely be using your videos to help 👌👌👌
Right on my man! Let me know if you have any questions.
You need to drill holes in the piston for the Bridgeport look at the Yz 125 Pro X pistions they have holes in them.
Hey bro I would check the squish on that piston. Because it looks like your old piston was the victim of some hardcore detonation. The way the rings were pinched into the ring lands that wasn't from carbon or anything, that was from the piston being smashed and that's caused by detonation from having too high a compression ratio and not good enough fuel.. Either make sure you run much higher octane fuel orl run a lower compression dome
Those motors are known for needing the exhaust bridge relieved and piston drilled in line with the exhaust bridge to guarantee a long strong life. It looks like that was the failure to me the way the rings are jammed into he piston perfectly in line with the bridge. I didn't here you mention it but at 16:37 I thought I could see the bridge ground down.
Thanks for pointing that out Kyle, I see what you are saying now. Literally right in line with the exhaust bridge.
Just subbed, just bought a freshened up '02 just like yours. I just ordered a Lectron pro 38. Top/bottom end has 5hrs on it. The kid I bought it from did new OE head and Wiseco forged but deleted the Front RC cable w spring and ran the springless part on both sides. I hope it works out long term. I may have to get the correct spring side to install and follow the demysitfied RC vid you talked about to set it up correctly. So many people since '02 were blind leading the blind w power valve bad advice on forums in turn gave this bike a bad rap.
Right on dude! I would highly suggest watching that video for the proper set up and history lesson on it. Brian does a great job explaining it and helped me tremendously. Congrats on the bike, hope it's a ripper for you💨💨
That piston crown and spark plug look cleaner/leaner than I prefer to run my 2 strokes. They shouldn't be goopy or oily, but I would expect some carbon pattern on the top of the piston.
It was lean for sure, I appreciate your feedback on the carbon pattern for the top of the piston.
I also noticed that that cylinder has a bridge on the exhaust and the piston didn't have any holes drilled in it , that'll cause failure all the time , most piston manufacturers usually have it in the instructions ot the holes will be in the piston already
Great videos. The piston is was not drilled along where it comes into close proximity to the exhaust bridge. I’m assuming the cylinder still had the exhaust bridge. Again, great videos.
It was not drilled no. Wasn’t familiar with doing that on the CRs until all of the comments on this video! Thanks for the feedback Cody, much appreciated
great video! gnarljy wreck haha now im scared my 2 stroke is gonna do that after i finish building it
Nahh you will be good my dude! Make sure you get it nice and warm before hammering lol
This thing sounds sooo good! Thanks for the shoutout and repping my friend! Excellent videos and builds
Pumped on how everything came out with this time around. I really appreciate the marker tip, it was a game changer, and confirming that it's normal to have to work them a million times before as well. Thank you Luke!
@@GregHitchko Yessir,
Thanks again for putting the information out there where it can help others. I think we suffered enough for everyone. On to the next struggle lol
Rad! Glad she’s back together from looking at that plug I feel like it still might be a little lean. I know lean is mean but rich will get you home 😎 took me awhile to dial in my billetron but it’s happy now so far 👍🏻 glad to see the CR rollin!
Well they recommend a 32:1fuel ratio on these bikes so that's what you want
Haha "rich will get you home" I dig that, Evan! It was for sure a little lean, probably shouldn't have leaned out the Billetron the day before like I did, but it had a pretty bad bog down low when we were testing the day before. But now we know! Thanks for the feedback man.
32:1 all day baby!
I've had bad luck with two-stroke cylinder sleeves. I bet if you had that cylinder plated it still would have seized. had really good luck with the OEM Honda Pistons.
Seems like the consensus on here as well is that people really haven't had good luck with the sleeves in these things either!
I have a 2001 CR250 and always run a oem piston with oem cylinder and never have any issues. If you run aftermarket forged pistons make sure to warm up the engine completely before beating on it. Forged pistons will expand at different rates than the cylinder.
@@GregHitchko few years ago I had la sleeve resleeve my 1979 RM 400 cylinder. the new sleeve lasted about 2 hours the Piston was slapping around so bad I thought I had blown the bottom end out of the bike and yes they sleeved to the brand new piston that I gave them and yes I mixed the gas 20 to 1 ratio just like the Suzuki manual suggests
@@madtater5948 danggg that is super frustrating. We share the same pain. Hate to spend that money just to have it fail a couple hours later...
Love the nice up! The RC-4 is sweet and will be the most sought after in future years.
Thank you dude, you've got that right!!
You could've totally gotten that subframe straight with a bit of light heat and a cheater bar.
8 plug is proper heat range.
Steel sleeve? What're you, nuts? This ain't the 70s.
Hahaha I hear ya, it was the only option at the time since it already had a sleeve in it and there weren't any OEM cylinders for sale at the time.
After sitting or a rebuild pull the choke and kick it through slowly about 10 times to build a good intake charge in the cases, should start easily then.
Right on! I appreciate that feedback my man.
if you put in sleave, you must run more piston to wall clence
Lube hole are VERY important on these cr250 because of the thin bridge in the center of the exhaust port. Wiseco pistons for these bikes come with 2 lube holes predrilled right where the exhaust bridge is. I runs these just because they are pre drilled and very high quality. No stress of drilling it your self and worrying about messing it up.
Thanks for dropping that knowledge Joseph, I didn’t know that the wiseco pistons already had those holes drilled into the piston already. Super convenient!
My wisco piston didn't come pre drill , I have to drill the holes in my wisco unilight
This makes me want to get my 1982 CR250R going again,
Heck yeah! Make it happen. I fully support it 🙌🏼
The only thing that could do that would be heat via combustion and the combination of friction and an insufficient bore. Could be a cold start, lean fuel condition, small bore, large ring set. Interesting that it got munched on the exhaust side. Maybe the piston needs some lube holes? Or the heat on the exhaust side is burning out the pre mix? Not sure about the steel sleeve theory never had one.
Thanks for the input my man! Definitely strange. Perhaps cold start and not warming it up enough with the steel sleeve. Seems like that could have been a major contributing factor to it.
Great video man - you inspired me to work more and learn more about my cr250
Heck yeah dude! That's what it's all about. Stoked for you, let me know if you have any questions along the way 👍🏼
Can you talk about the Fathead and how it changes the power characteristics?
Lube holes in the piston for the exhaust bridge
Seems to be the consensus with these CR250s!
I dont know all brands but i know NGKheat rating if the lower the number the higher the heat range. The letter mean whole or half
if you just angle the adapter 90 degrees you don't have to do any calculations at all. also if it's 1" or less extension, you also don't need to calculate. this is all coming from the aviation AME handbook
Oh no way! This is awesome info Jacob, I'd say that's a pretty reputable source haha
Myself also an aircraft mechanic caught that as well
Exhaust bridge needs relieving piston needs bridge holes squish is probably to big also timing could be to advanced or running to lean. Biggest things that make 2 strokes get hot
A bunch of people have commented on relieving the exhaust bridge on these cylinders. Never knew, but now I do! I really appreciate that insight and feedback Robert. Thank you
@@GregHitchko 👍🏻
Not sure if the worksman gave relief for the exhaust port bridge. That's the most important part as it gets hot very easily and expand.
My assessments would be that it wasn't warmed up properly especially with the steel sleeve.
Sounds like that seems to be the culprit among a bunch of people as well! Now we know!
Looking forward to the part 2 video!
Hells yeah Chris! Taking a different approach with actual rankings and lap times. We want actual numbers and data!
I mentioned it before you pulled this apart previously - steel sleeves require both more piston to bore clearance and more bridge relief. This is a result of both those being ineadequate. The jetting is a little lean for pump fuel (not sure if that's what you ran) but even still - properly built a bike can get too lean and not blow up if designed for the fuel used...
You can NOT run same specs for clearances as is run on a plated cyl. Additionally we have found the specified clearances suggested by wiseco are usually too tight if running their piston. Just my 2 cents.
That’s great insight, thank you for sharing that. I do think the clearances could have been a little too tight with that sleeve in there. What’s frustrating though is that I included the piston with the cylinder when the shop put the new sleeve in…you would think that a well known shop known for doing this would know?
@@GregHitchko Good 2 builders are becoming rare. Most machinists go off "spec" and not testing knowledge. Sleeves are "sort of" a thing of the past - and for good reason. On a 250 they will usually be 1.5-2 hp worse vs an identical plated cylinder. So most places just set it to "spec" and then blame the user when it fails. Even the plating companies are doing really poor jobs of bridge clearance and chamfers on replates. There are a few "old school" guys left who still work on engines that had sleeves stock (banshees and such) - and I've had to lean on them for advice whenever dealing with a sleeve. My first attempts ended in disaster just like yours...and of course I knew it was too tight in operating condition - but had no idea where to begin in the "window" of clearances that would work. The other issue on a sleeve is it will really require good warm up and good piston warm up (different) - because when cold it the clearance is huge and they rattle - plus more frequent piston replacement because when they rattle it's harder on the piston! Plating came about and has its flaws but from a performance standpoint - it's so much better.
@@HPRaceDevelopment I can’t express how awesome this knowledge and feedback is my man! Next time I tear into an engine, I will have to give you a call so we can FaceTime or whatever to review what’s going on with it and get your expert opinion. Live and learn and that’s what happened with using the sleeve. Cost me a bit more money but the knowledge gained is invaluable that is for sure 🙌🏼💨
Great video Greg. Keep them coming
Thank you Mike! Always appreciate your input and knowledge.
I could use that Seat Cover!! Love the videos brother
Thanks brother! Send me an email, hitchmotoko@gmail.com
Hondas don't like steel bores but usually it just makes the bike noisier. it does increase heat since steel doesn't conduct heat as well but that alone should not blow up your bike. and if your plug was a heat range too hot and your lean and running less oil that is a disaster waiting to happen
The 8 does look like the stock plug number, and the mixture was 32:1. Strange the other bikes didn't have an issue but really could have been from me leaning out the lectron just a little like I mentioned in my other reply.
Just put the torque wrench adapter at a 90 degree angle, no need for adjustments
Cheers! i appreciate the advice on that my man
NGK-R BR8EG
B: CASE THREAD PITCH
R: RESIATOR TYPE PLUG
8: HEAT RANGe
E: REACH
G: RACING USE.
HIGHER THE NUMBER LOWER THE HEAT RANDGE
LETTER AT END CAN ALSO MEAN THE HEAT RANGE IS .5 OVER
Is that Thick head made by Honda Factory Racing ...CO... ?
With that amount of damage to the piston and cylinder, I would do a FULL ON
Re - Built on that engine and go HONDA RACING FACTORY spec on everything .... only
if I had the money to spend on things of that nature .
Can't wait too to see her all done and put together .......
love the video from beginning to end and to see her back alive again wow
brought me tears of joy well done very well done ...... 👌🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Haha love that it brought you tears of joy my man! It is a Phathead Racing Head actually. That's why I went with the OEM cylinder, and that proX piston is pretty much OEM since they come out of the same factory👍🏼
thanks for sharing the video I would have stayed with the stock Honda piston everything else in my book is crap
No doubt man! OEM is certainly hard to beat that is for sure 🙌🏼
I’d like to purchase that seat cover from you if it’s still available.
Send me an email at hitchmotoko@gmail.com my dude!
Yo I’m intrested in the cylinder and possibly the subframe
Sounds good! Email me at hitchmotoko@gmail.com!
i ride a cr 250 2006, and in manuel is right plug is br9eg, i think your engine was to hot with the br8eg or run it to lean or where the piston too big?
I'm going to bump up the number on the plug for sure! Thing is, when I got it resleeved, I gave the piston to the shop as well so he could match it up. I didn't even think to check the clearance, I just assumed that he did that and everything was cool. But you know what they say about assuming....
Great video Greg! Thanks a bunch😊
No doubt Giovonne! Glad you enjoyed it and found value. Thanks for the feedback!
Throw that cylinder in the bin, it’s clearly the reason your bike blew up. Now you’ll sell it to some other poor bastard who will go through the same thing. The bigger problem is that most people think getting forged piston is the best way to go because, hey, drag cars have them 🥴. Just go with Nikasil plated OEM and cast piston every time. If you can’t avoid having a steel sleeved cylinder (CR 500’s have them) avoid forged pistons and make sure your clearances are in spec. Have your bike jetted correctly at 40:1 high quality oil. To anyone that disagrees, enjoy spending money on rebuilds 😉.
Do you have a link to the RC PV video?
th-cam.com/video/_3Vt4rh2fGU/w-d-xo.html there it is my man!
Not dissing you but why would you sleeve a 2T? You do know Millennium Technologies in Wisconsin exists?
I have a bike and German car shop and never use steel sleeves in either for this reason (unless it’s OEM like XR bikes). Nikasil all bikes and alusil all German motors. They run another 200k miles like that.
I set my at .060 with the cool head
Your power value may have hit your piston.
My kids yz125 did this to.
In Remove the little bit of material off it So it could not touch the piston
lectrons are known for being very lean and blowing bikes up. it was probably too lean. also make sure your running 32:1 for oil. If that was my plug I wouldn't be happy. plug should be a darker brown in color.
You're right about the plug! Wasn't bad but it was running lean for sure. I shouldn't have leaned it out the little bit the day before, but man, it just that this gnarly bog down low when you went to get on it. It was dangerous. But now we know for next time, makes sense because I went richer on alll the other bikes with the Lectrons. I appreciate the feedback my dude!
@@GregHitchko yeah man on my 2021 yz250 when I got my lectron I have went a whole 1.5 turns fatter on the pilot and a half turn on the metering rod and it's only a little tiny bit on the rich side which I like 👍
Powerjet not pilot my bad
Depending upon altitude
My 97 cr125 was a BR9EG
One more thing your new cylinder is an A cylinder I see that you got a B pro-× piston. I would have recommended A piston. Just wondering why the B
Another thing that is NOT a oem seat for a 04 Honda cr250 looks like you have a crf230 seat.
Great question! I've had buddies run the B piston in the A cylinder without a problem for years. The clearance is .050 rather than the recommended .060-.075. A little tight isn't bad for the cast piston. The A ProX piston is 66.34mm and the B is 66.35mm Keep you posted on how it goes for me. I appreciate the feedback!
@@GregHitchko awesome man !
@@GregHitchko thank you for all of your great content! Enjoy seeing your videos and all of your bad @$$ vintage bikes. 👍
@@user-wu9dn6sl9y Hell yeah! I really appreciate the kind words and feedback my man. Makes me want to keep on creating videos for you guys!
2-strokes love gas when you start them ! Give it a little gas and it should start by the fifth kick
Thanks Raymond, had the choke on so I was trying not to use the gas lol. I got hammered in my last video about it🤣
Run the original mikuni carb with a 420 main. The lectron possibly ran the fuel way lean. These engines are junk 🙁unfortunately don’t push them too hard & I would use the oem ngk br9eg n8 plug ⚡️I had on 07, loved the geometry!
That is for sure a possibility! Funny thing is, it was running so rich we had to lean it out, and it still seemed rich. The geometry of the bikes is awesome though for sure. Thanks for the comment Jordan!
Hey Greg, what fuel do you use with the phat head?
I just use the highest pump octane non ethanol fuel! 32:1. It’s the stock compression dome so can run standard fuel!
@@GregHitchko Cool, thanks. I was thinking about one for my CR. Mainly just cause it looks cool.
@@TORKiT Right on! They look cool and they have larger cooling ports to allow more coolant through, meaning cooler operating temps as well. Code GREG10 will save you money on one if you decide to go that direction!
@@GregHitchko awesome, I did save 10 percent. Thanks Greg!
What spark plug would you recommend for nicasil coated 06 cr250 cylinder, im tryna get a long run time out of this cylinder.
thanks
There's a company that I deal with call mallinium technology that repairs cylinders great people good turn around .
They do amazing work! I've sent my cranks there before🙌🏼
Can I buy that old bent silencer can off you? I’d love to modify it to fit my Honda ATC 200S :)
Shoot me an email dude! Hitchmotoko@gmail.com
@@GregHitchko Sounds good!
Great video Greg! Thanks!
Right on, thanks for the feedback!
How much for the cylinder ?
Send me an email at hitchmotoko@gmail.com!
PWK 38 or TMX carb.
Looked Slightly Lean to me . Maybe put a fuel screw washer under the needle clip (half step) and One up on the main
Thanks for that input Warren!
Come on down to Flagstaff and ride some Singletrack with us sometime
@@warrenwilliams3807 Dude I would be all about that! Rode down there last April from my birthday and it was EPIC. Such fun trails
I would’ve taken that subframe and hammer it straight lol.
I still may try and make that happen to straighten it out!
By any chance do you still have cylinder
Unfortunately I do not!
Bigbore kit
Thought about it lol
Lectron carb see 400 kicks later OEM carb first kick
Shit mang, where'd you learn how to count haha
I’ll take that cylinder
Email me at hitchmotoko@gmail.com my man
I like my plugs to be a chocolate color little richer on the mix , a fatter jet on the main , as far as the sleeve I've seen the sleeves actually drop drop bad fitment or poor machine work is use a nickesil cylinder
I've also heard that the installation of the sleeve could be the problem, it could move and be a little off. I'll have to investigate it closer to see, but I didn't notice anything by glancing at it quick
@@GregHitchko the reason I say that is I replaced one for one of my snowmobiles that has sleeves , I put the cylinder in the oven at 475 degrees and the sleeve came grit out I put new one in while it was still hot left it cool down everything lined up perfect two days of riding and the sleeve moved and fuct my engine all up .
@@larrywarner9314 holy shit Larry! That sounds like a horror story. Thanks for sharing. Didn't know they could move that easy when exposed to heat like that but then again, I am not familiar with how they are installed, removed, etc.
Sleeves don't transfer heat properly and shouldn't be used
I hear they need to be warmed up more thoroughly but no need to worry any more for this one!
Exhaust port side , that's classic lean seize. Too much heat :/
Thanks for that insight Charles! Bummer but glad to have put the new nikasil cylinder back on there 🙌
Bro send it to millennium technology get that thing re nickeled only takes them like 2 weeks for u to get it back from the day u send it I’ve sent multiple cylinders over the years never waited to long to get them back they will even beef up bridges between ports
I totally would (and have with other cylinders) but I thought you can't nikasil a steel sleeve?
Id run my mix at 32:1
Why didn’t you buy a used cylinder and get it replated
Used cylinders are super hard to find too!
@@GregHitchko tell me about it! Lol had a hell of a time finding a good 1990 kx250 cylinder.
Lean
I am a torque wrench
Why did it blow up...
Dude! Way way too much talking
Matt, thanks for that feedback! This was more a story video but going forward I'm going to create strict process videos without the extra fluff. Cheers man
ring end gap?
Long story short, I should have confirmed the work that the shop did when they put the sleeve in it, but didn't. Just threw it together without checking the ring end gap, lesson learned.
Lean enough to lock up. Dirtbike channel did the same with a cr and lectron. Ditch those carbs, they're good for trails and technical riders but not high revvers.
They do work great in the trail, but I have also had great experience on my Lectron on my KX250 over the past 2 years, never had an issue. Could have gone back richer on it for sure with the CR like I did with the other bikes.
Ditch the lectron and get. A real carb.
Do you have experience with jetting a CR250R? The stock Mikuni is known to be actually pretty terrible on them! I'd be curious about a PWK
@@GregHitchko the mikuni TMX is hard to dial in but they aren't a bad carb. Both my boys bikes run the same carb, you just need to experiment a little bit. The PWK is a great carb and easy to dial in with more output than the lectron in my experience. I'm out of Utah county if you ever need a hand. We love to build bikes and you did a great job on those.
@@panic-revv85 Right on! I don't disagree that the PWK can push more output than the Lectron. More things to fine tune. But sounds good to me, we're probably neighbors lol
@@GregHitchko I ride an 04 CR250 with the stock Mikuni. It takes more tuning, more often (my bike is somewhat sensitive to temperature changes) but the carb works awesomely. It is never 100% perfect (I run a bit rich most of the time) but I am not losing any performance because of the carb.
@@GregHitchko if you use the s7 nozzle (stock one on the 05-07 cr ) and the recomended jetting specs on the PC webpage, and also correct the squish issue (I don't know if the phathead is designed to do that we should contact Luke to ask that question) but on the stock head one good mod to help with that issue would be to run the 05-07 cylinder gasket that is .20 thinner than the 02-04 gasket.
Ok your piston was to big for your jug
Your piston on a still sleeve needs to be .03 than your jug and you did have holes in your picture and no need to bore your jug
And you could have sent your jug to power seal and the would of nicked your jug for $300