New Manual Lathe, Lion 23MT, Setup and Test Run, 2 Ring Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- The brand new Lion 23MT lathe is all leveled up and wired. Now to set it up and do a two ring test.
First is the walk around and explanation of what is included and how it is set up. Then T nut modification for the Aloris DA toolpost. After that I make the first chips and do a 2 ring test to accurize the tailstock.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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I have heard people, over the years and many channels, complain about camera quality. I began with your channel with the newer stuff, with really great vieo quality. This older video has me wanting to clean my glasses. It acutally hurts my eyes. Really enjoying all of your content, my previous comment was not intended to be a complaint but I do now know what a difference a good camera makes. Edit; throwing a hotdog down a hallway......too funny!
That is a freaking dream machine there. Cant tell you how many times i cursed my 1" spindle bore and change gears for threads. That is so convenient and well designed as well.
That is a fantastic machine, thanks for showing us around it and for talking about how you set it up
Josh, You have bought a great machine, I own the older version for 7 years so far. These machines are very popular in Europe.The joystick control, the rapids and the clutch control makes it very user friendly and a pleasure to work. These are outside features. inside, the spindle is the geunine SKF design, with two double row bearings, and one pre-tensioned radial/axial SKF bearing, which makes the spindle very stiff and exact.
Take good care of her, and she will serve You long, long years with exact and silent work. Stam
So far I'm very happy with it. I should have bought it a few years sooner. Never knew what I was missing.
@@TopperMachineLLC There are two types of quality: quality of the concept, and quality of manufacturing. This machine have both. Just one small historical remark - the genes of this lathe are in the TOS designs from the 60 ties, and from then on, the ZMM has put a ton of small improvements in it. The only thing this machine does not like is changing the speeds, when the motor is running. Please by all means, when changing the speed, turn the motor off. Lubricate the ways and the drive screws, and she will take care of Your business, guaranteed. I appreciate Your work ethics and attitude a lot.
@@StamD65 Personally I have a TOS SN50 but a machinist friend has a ZMM C11 and a CU580 (also recently got a "Red Proletarian"... the popular one) and he never any such struggles with any of them.
On the other hand on my own lathe, there is a lot of wear in the internal hex of the clutch shaft lever, which doesn't allow the clutch to go to the fully neutral/brake position when bringing the lever back to it's center position, unless you pull it slightly towards the reverse side, which (apart from sometime making threading awkward cause it doesn't brake properly and has a tendency to creep) adds a ton of wear on the clutch pack and mine is practically toasted already (it's an '85 machine afterall).
If yours is worn even a tiny bit more than mine (or just not properly adjusted), it is safe to assume that the clutch is creeping up, thus causing the gears to start turning (with force and not just freewheeling due to oil coupling effects of the clutch) as soon as you go between gears. Or now that I think of it, it could also be improper oil grade in the headstock. I don't know what oil the C11 takes but I was pretty weirded by the almost as thin as diesel ISO22 hydraulic oil specification for the headstock of my TOS. Improperly using a thicker oil would definitely impact clutch function when in neutral.
@@Sketch1994 Regarding the oil: The C-11 and the rest of the lathes similar to it, like CU 400 and CU 500 use for the spindle oiling oils such as Shell Tellus C32,Castrol Hyspin AWS 32,or ESSO Nuto H32. Some time ago (15 years?!?) the oil producers has joined the norms of previously called machine oils and hydraulic oils, and has created a in-between type of oil called a hydraulic anti-wear oil. In any case, please use only the recomended types, that is important
3:32 I had a big job that had deep large holes to drill and it was a nightmare with the standard screw hand wheel so I took it off and adapted a rack and pinion box from a car with a ships wheel so it works like a drill press. The job went FAST and I like it so much I never took it off to this day, 20 years later. There is nothing like being able to pull the drill out FAST with a quick spin and back in and it still produces full force.
Thanks for the intro to the clutch. You were right about when we texted earlier. I’m going to recommend this video to my boss.
I am real glad that this machine makes you happy. Sometimes it is hard to learn a new machine but it was made for you.
Very nice lathe Josh.
Nice to break in a New Machine yourself.
Congratulations on your purchase.
Great content.
Thanks, EM.
Impressive lathe with great features. I enjoyed your walk around. I agree about having a clutch, the ability to creep up working near the chuck. Never used a lathe without one, you must of had some scary moments. Tony
Interesting to hear your views on clutched lathes but slightly smaller lathes i would always favour a VFD controlled lathe, the benefits over a normal straight on/off switch are a no brainer and fulfil some of your clutch requirements too.
Re M DRO, lovely chaps to deal with, i have spoken to them on many occaions and they even did themselves out of a sale once when one scale failed way out of warranty and i mentioned why i wanted to buy a new one, they offered to fix it free of charge if i took it to them. Being only an hour away i went and they fixed it while i waited. As i said, lovely chaps to deal with.
Keep making videos as good as this one and you, me and that new lathe can all grow old together
I wish you the very best of luck with the new machine
I will keep trying.
Looks like a good machine . I agree , you can not beat a clutch operated lathe . The traveling steady's make a good door stop , I have used one once or twice when i was an apprentice just to try it & never used one since ! 👍
I have done a lot of large valve spindles 30 inch of 1.5" x4tpi and similar need a traveling steady then believe me
Thanks for your honesty and talent Josh also sharing your new lathe. Cheers.
Looks an excellent machine, I used a German lathe with the joystick for carriage and cross's travel, but no rapids. Plenty of nice touches and features, agree 100% on clutch control 👌.
Spot on, ref staged levelling, I cringe when people use any machine tool with stress levelling.
Looking forward to seeing chips flying.
I love manual lathe machines
Wow--used to live near Spooner, many years ago. Too bad I didn't live around there now, as I'd love to see your shop. Nice lathe!
Gday Josh, beautiful new machine, I’m sure you’ll get many years of great us, great job, Cheers
Great setup you have, really wished I had a clutch model. Enjoyed the setup and tail adjustment.
Dream machine. I wish I could afford one, but not quite that big. Thanks for this.
I couldn't afford it either. But I also couldn't afford to not upgrade. It's definitely improved my output.
I bet it’s great to play with a new lathe, a good new lathe. Everything is nice and tight yet. It’s great to see you having fun.
I'm excited to have something good for a change. Been hard doing the quality I try to do with worn equipment.
Good to see that new lathe up and running!!
Hi Josh it is good to see the new lathe up and running, Love the engine turned panel on the front of the carriage. You will new to do a review on it in 6 months. thanks
TH-cam had your channel in my lineup today, probably because of the Monarch lathe video. I'm in the Eau Claire area. The machine channels are hot now. We need to get you more likes and comments so you get more subscribers.
Being an old man with a bad back, I suggest you consider raising that lathe 4 inches or more. You're leaning over to operate the controls which eventually takes it's toll on the body.
Beautiful machine. Congrats!
Hi while too large for our micro machine shop, we must share this, we love your new lathe made in Europe and what we learned from you was about the clutch, we these two guys did not know about them and how there are so few made today offering that. That is a GREAT machine, enjoy that massive diameter capable beast (meant in a good way). P.S. the SKF bearings within her are great, we trust in SKF here so to have read about them being utilized in your machine was a great discovery. Lance & Patrick.
Thanks guys. Yes, the clutch is a must and very hard to find now days. But I feel I found a great new lathe. Thanks for watching.
A real light cut over the whole distance using the follow rest would be interesting to see. Looks like it should do the job for ya but running a machine that isn’t worn may make you start looking at replacing everything else! 😂
I've already been considering the wear issue. It's amazing how getting something nice can make everything else look like junk.
you'd be better off asking him to cut something down to a drinking straw. that's an annoying setup just to take a few thousandths off of a piece of roundbar lol
my dad bought a little 14" lathe that is exactly like that thing. i think it's a summit brand. they're virtually clones by design though. yours is likely to be 15 years newer, but i don't see any major design chances except for that awesome tail stock. the summit's swing was given in millimeters though, i just remember that it was about 14 inches with maybe a 7 or 8 foot bed.
the p.o.s. that works up there crashed it with a pretty large ball valve body chucked up by the flange though, so it's a knocking, thumping piece of crap now. i looked inside the gear box and.... whenever that crack gives, that lathe is smoked. SMOKED.
Very nice lathe. I love new toys. I still have to wait sometime for my new shop.
Talking of nice features, 12:10 nice leadscrew and power feed shaft cover.
Nice machine. Love the 4” spindle bore.
Great looking machine Josh, looking forward to seeing it in action.
Great video nice introduction about the lathe I’m ready to come to work and make something on the lathe
Beautifull lathe! I really hope that it will serve you well in the decades to come.
200thou on a bridgeport, wow I've never done that in steel.
cheers.
Thanks. Deepest I've ever pulled off in a bridgeport was .300. Just takes a little less feed rate, so you can do other things while it's cutting.
The man likes blue chips.
Well it cut, but it was vibrating quite a bit. I thought some items were going to fall off the table.
Great addition to the shop!
Very nice machine. Looking forward to seeing this run.
My old LeBlond just doesn’t compare. Congratulations on a beautiful new money maker! Just love it!
"Like throwing a hotdog down a hallway"
You had me rolling.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sweet machine. Many years of work in it.
Congratulations!! I just moved up in scale in all my machines as a hobbyist. My new condition, 1974 Bridgeport came with a few face mills. They are suspect and don’t work well, specially the 3- to 3 1/2” ones. The performance of your face mill on the T nut was a revelation. Have you done a video or talked about that before?
I'd also be interested in knowing a bit more about the shoulder mill you are using.
Well I'm totally smitten with my new PM 1440GT (2 inch bore) but this thing is in another league. I've never used a clutched lathe and now I must make sure I never do..:)
Once you've gone clutched, you can hardly run anything else.
Lovely bit of kit, congratulations and enjoy.
Man that's a beautiful machine. I'm going to look at a new Summit 14" machine next week. Not the same class as this but I'm excited anyway.
Run far and fast from summit. The Lion is far superior, well worth every penny. The summit will disappoint you.
Well damn - OK that’s great info, I appreciate the feedback and I’m glad I mentioned it. More research to do. 👍
There are a lot of machines out there. Most new ones are junk. If you don't care about a clutched headstock, Sharp makes a great machine. Personally I won't own a lathe without a clutch.
I do see the beauty of a clutch, watching the demo on this video. The lathe market is an absolute minefield. I've been digging through every new small lathe supplier for the last month. Basically, everything 14" and below comes from China or Taiwan (Even LeBlond - not sure on Clausing - they wouldn't say) and are based on a few basic designs. I absolutely will not buy a Chinese machine again. The best bet these days is Taiwanese machines, and then you need to pick a vendor very carefully. At least on 16" up machines there are some European ones like the Lion (Summit as well as it happens). Unfortunately, even with the smoking deal Lion offered me I can't stretch to that. So that really leaves Precision Matthews, because that's about the only machine that there is solid evidence to see (such as Adam Abom79). Although I did hear some good things about Sharp also, as you say - but the price is higher than PM. So looks like PM is my best bet right now. Errrrr - apologies for going off topic on your post, but again - really appreciate your input. Potentially you have saved me a ton of money.
@@StuartsShed causing is asian also now. Summit is "assembled" here. I called them and got someone who let slip that even their European machines are not 100% European. Much of it is china and Taiwan. I have heard good things of PM, but again it's low standards Asian. For a hobby machine, it should be fine. As a professional machine, you get what you pay for. That is the whole reason I went Lion, and will again when the time comes.
Congratulations with the new lathe. It looks great 😊👍
Nice lathe & good demonstration, Thankyou
Congratulations on the new lathe!👍 Use the follower rest on long thin pieces? Might help with deflection?
25:50 No backlash on the cross slide - so give the leadscrews and nuts a really good greasing so as to keep them that way. And lube the slideways too. So often stuff comes unlubricated nowadays - and for that matter, BROKEN or faulty.
Just found this channel... glad I did! I'm subscribed!
Thank you. Stay tuned I've got a new camera coming and alot of cool stuff coming up.
@@TopperMachineLLC Sounds awesome! Thank you!
The motor cover looks like it will also prevent you from leaving the chuck key inside the chuck.
It would of been nice if that top section of the guard was see through too . Not a big deal but I think it would be nice .
I have the exact lathe. Bought it about 1-1/2 years ago. Love it. Main complaint is the half nut lever is too low, so it’s a bit uncomfortable. Also the paint job is poor, after having some coolant on it this paint will start peeling up. Otherwise very rigid machine and trouble free.
I totally agree about the half nut. I have had different coolant over the years act as paint stripper. Could just be the coolant, but modern paint isn't that great either. So far I love the lathe.
Hey Josh, loving your truthful channel, congratulations on what looks to be a well procured lathe. Would love to see it put through its paces. is it self lubricating, will you be doing anything to provide additional protection for ways? where was it made?
Thanks, it's a nice lathe. Very similar to the monarchs. I have never seen a machine that doesn't self lubricate, I'd like some examples if you know some. I have an oil can of way oil for extra lubrication. Made in Bulgaria.
@@TopperMachineLLC Little lathes, South Bend, etc use ball oilers. It's only the 14" + class that are self.
22:05 I note that the power feed shaft rotates your rapids motor !
Nice machine and European not Chinese too!! Excellent!
25:25 Yep, sounds good enough for an initial setup. Of course, this should really be done with the bar mounted between centres.
You don't have one machining video on your channel, yet you have heaps to say on the subject..
@@65cj55 Which channel ? ;)
I've been around the machining world for let's say 50 years. I might not be extremely experienced but I have a great understanding of the processes and why.
@@millomweb Your Channel, it shows no machining videos, yet you're a critic, and like leaving multitudes of comments.
@@65cj55 Ahh, maybe you're not looking at my machining channel then. Are there videos of electrical problems and a lathe and a milling machine ?
@@millomweb What's the Channel name ?
Cool Josh
The new lathe looks great, from an ergonomic / useabilty point of view if the lathe was a couple of inches higher would it help you comfort greatly ,
So far it's really good. Only control that is difficult is the half nut lever. I may try modifying it. Otherwise, I like the machine. Thanks for watching
LMAO "Hotdog down a hallway"
Very nice machine.
🤣hot dog down a hallway....haven't heard that in a while..lol....nice lathe !
4 inch spindle bore is nice.
Got a question for you Topper, why did you use aluminum siding on the inside walls of your shop? Very interesting approach 😎
That's steel. Easy to clean, makes the room bright, and is basically fire proof.
Abom79's is a 16-48 IIRC.
Awesome machine I think I just cheated on my wife lol wow that is really an amazing tool I’m happy for you and I’m sure it will last you a long time thanks for sharing and have fun
Cracked in the nutz......LOL
Looks good
How did you level the lathe? Looks a nice machine.
If my maths is right, you have 3 mills. Interesting that you use the Cin as a vertical mill.
Why did you end up with 2 BPs ?
What's your logic for which mill you'd use for a particular job ? Is one BP set up for angle milling and the other kept in tram ?
As a woodworker, I don’t have a clue what something like that costs?
I love getting new toys to play with. Sounds like a lot on your plate too. Good on you. I caught an interesting vid yesterday sawmill related. He has questions on the mill he is restoring. Check him out
Хороший станок!
17:45 Don't let go of that piece of bar as you'll lose it down that big hole !
So if you grab the clutch lever and operate it to forward, how quickly does the chuck accelerate ? I noticed it seemed rather lethargic when you selected reverse. I'm not convinced that that is a mechanical clutch - maybe it's magnetic or even electromagnetic ? Mine has a simple mechanical clutch and from disengaged to engaged, the spindle's up to full speed before you can take your hand off the lever!. So to me, the clutch gives quicker starts than by starting the motor.
Clutch lathes are good until the clutch wears out, it's nightmare to get the clutch tolerance back to spec.
So I rather change switch then mess with the clutch again.
And if you read the manual it probably says that you cannot do the ,,feathering"
Hate to say it, but that compound looks fragile hanging over like that... They couldn't have made that riser shorter and compound thicker? Otherwise looks like the best lathe on the marker save maybe a TOS.
I feel the same about that, but we will see how it holds up.
Precision Mathews has nothing on this lathe. I am also a clutch lathe guy (Graziano). Taiwanese lathe are precise and heavy duty, but that's now the bare minimum when you get into lathes at this level. The usability is light years away above the Precision Mathew. European lathes are more likely to be designed with the operator in mind. Only complaint I have about this Lion lathe is the speed adjustment. When changing speed it seems like you still have to operate 2 controls: one for low/mid/high and a second lever for speed selection. That would drive me nuts.
I give it....about 2 weeks before that "chuck guard" is removed and launched over the wall....
🇬🇧😐
I actually don't mind the chuck guard. The window on the compound was another story. Lol
Where this lathe was made sir?
Bulgaria
Is this a bulgherian machine ? They are looking weary similar ?
Yes.
Why not fill the hole with a weld and then fill in the hole with the welded material then sand it out to make the hold look like it never was there
Exelente torno amigo como ago pará tener información sobre los precios de un torno de 1.50 metros ahorro para comprar ese es mi sueños y así ayudar Ami familia soy nuevo viendo tus videos
Where is that lathe made from?
18:40 I think the rapid traverse on my lathe is faster than yours - it's variable speed - depending on how fast I push it ! #muscles
Strange light-reflection going on at 22.51. What could that be. Som kind of resonance in the bar?
Crappy camera. New camera coming in a couple weeks.
Great video.. how do I do a two ring test when I don't have a dro
Same concept. Use the dial on your cross slide. Turn into the same depth.
18:18 That chuck sounds absolutely bone dry ! Have you got an oil can ?
metric and bananas
before you do anything else make a little bracket to drop the chuck key in and screw it on the tray just under the front clutch lever as there doesn't look anywhere else to put it!
and make a bracket to hold a tray and screw it on end of bed under tailstock wheel to hold drills, centres etc.
Lathe designers never use lathes!
Made in Bulgarije isnt it
Yes.
that sliding shield is so stupid... you gotta reach under it if you have to rotate the chuck to change speeds
OSHAfied. Adding unnecessary safety guards thus rendering equipment useless.
Actually this one isnt too bad. Mostly keeps coolant in the tank, but I do not like the cutout switch on it.
Your Lion is far better than a Percision Matthews
Yes it is.
Lathe, always tried to crack you in the junk.
It doesn't suit the shop paint it in Monarch colours and get the character back!
Christopher from Down Under
A chuck guard really, nothing like hot chips hitting you on the chest and a streak of coolant down the front of your shirt.. what kind of machinist are you?
It's standard equipment. I've never used one before. But it's on a limit switch. Gonna leave it there. Nice not having coolant raining down.
best when a big blue one gets down to your pants. medical station wet themselves cruel sods
I think it's a piece of crap
If it was mine it would be brilliant. I'm just jealous get over it.
Lol. It is an awesome machine. No doubt there.
Where is that lathe made from?