Modifying the Output Shaft on a Crankshaft - Turning A Taper & Cutting a Woodruff Key
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- I do not do engine work, but this guy was desperate. What can I say, I felt bad for him and did it anyway.
This was a crankshaft out of a V4 Wisconsin engine in an old skid steer loader. His replacement was out of another motor he had, and didn't realize the output shafts were different. After he had been to several other shops around the region, he found me.
The old Monarch lathe has the best taper attachment I have ever used, and I am very familiar with its setup and operation. Watch as I modify this crankshaft to fit his application.
As a public service, I feel it is my duty to let you all know that skid steers are really a completely useless and underpowered machine. For far less money, you can have a wheel loader. They have a much higher lifting capacity, are easier to drive, and generally have heated cabs. I personally will never own a skid steer. Take it from a very experienced equipment operator, don't waste your money on skid steers.
If you are interested in trying out Anchorlube, here is a link to their amazon store.
www.amazon.com...
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work.
Thank you for watching!
Please Like, Subscribe, & Share.
toppermachine.com
For Official Topper Machine LLC merchandise, check out our Teespring shop.
toppermachinel...
Support our channel, Paypal donations are greatly appreciated.
www.paypal.com...
#machineshop #machinistlife #manualmachinist
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
If I may be so bold Josh, as a farmer, I think of a custom machine shop not as a machinist but as a problem solver....a magician. A Repair Engineer if I may coin a phrase. Almost anyone can make chips. Heck, I have a "machine shop" so I can make chips. Your value to us is your brain.
SNAP! "Oh crap, a new part is $1,500 and two weeks away....how am I going to fix this? Let's go see Josh he can do it". Good job. Love the content.
P.S. Sometimes we need a skid steer because a wheel loader is too big.
This crankshaft came out of a 610 Melroe Bobcat. There is no center main on the crank so it’s understandable how it’s slightly bent without being noticed. Agreed they should have still noticed it tho.
We greatly appreciate your work as the taper and the keyway weren’t something my husband could do (he is an ASE Certified Engine Machinist).
BTW- your Customer (76 years old) was very happy you were able to do this for him 💕 He has had that skid loader for about 35 years with the same motor. Now he can run it again.
Glad I could help. I really felt bad for him. Hard spot to be in.
For as much as you complained about the issues, you aced it! Beautifully done.
I think you’re better at automotive work than you think! It’d be cool to see you jump into more stuff that challenges and annoys you lol. It makes for great video!
There's no way the shop that did the grinding didn't notice the shaft was bent, they probably just didn't say anything so they could get paid, no scruples.
Great video like always Josh, thank you for uploading. 👍👍
I'm surprised that crankshaft machined as easy as it did. I was expecting something much harder. This was one job that I was nervous for you from start to finish. Great job with it Josh
There was considerable pucker factor on this one.
The crankshaft was probably nodular iron which provides very good bearing surfaces and is relatively easy to machine.
Nice job Josh.
I do agree that the Crankshaft grinder should have caught the bent shaft.
But you did a good repair.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day. 👍
You are a undisputed machine shop hero today. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
This is the exact job they got me into machining. Had an old bobcat 610 that needed an engine. A local guy attempted the exact modification as you did, but ended up with about .100” runout on the taper. Picked up an old atlas lathe and redid it myself. As the crank was forged, it was possible to build up with weld And remachine. Both machines are long gone and upgraded along the way, but that’s where it started! Thanks for sharing
Great content. Thank you for helping to save another old Melroe 600 or 610.
For me it's not about utility it's about proving to myself that I can take a really old piece of equipment and make it usable again.
This was actually an old Gehl.
I recognize that pulley any day. It's out of a Bobcat loader. I grew up working on them and operating them as a kid in my father's shop and on the farm.
It's out of an old Gehl machine.
Great job on the crank. I love your videos because I ran a lot of the machinery doing the same type of repairs that you do. During my apprenticeship our shop tech instructor was a tool and die maker and always said “ Nothing is chiseled in stone. “ So ignore the negative comments. Everyone will have different methods, the end result is important. Good stuff.
The engine shop either missed it or didn't care, likely the latter.
To be honest, you got bit by yourself by not checking the piece beforehand.
You got it figured out, and it turned out excellent! I'm glad you are passing your knowledge on to the next generation.
Who would have thought it would have been bent. I never even considered it. I don't do enough engine work to know these things.
@@TopperMachineLLC You do now! I have learned in my 59 years, to assume nothing. especially with things that someone else worked on or is used. From the sad but true department comes this... Even new stuff can be messed up from factory or shipping goons. Gotta check things...everytime.
I can't argue that at all! It's probably an error that I and many others would make also.
@@TopperMachineLLC
You have a good heart Josh. Nice job as always. I am learning great info and appreciate it very much. Thank you.
GREAT JOB! Machinists and machines helped build this country and will sustain it. Video is proof of that
another great video, kept me glued to screen from start to finnish. Thanks for taking the time.
Crankshafts are either forged and basically made from rock, so they will break all of your bits. Or they are cast but hardened and basically made from glass filled with peanut butter, and will break all of your bits.
Lol, it wasn't that bad. I've turned way harder stuff.
Pretty cool sir, when I seen the old school Wisconsin crank shaft it took me back about 40 years when I was a young man on the farm. We had several of those old air cooled engines . Great job too!
Good video Josh. You found an issue with the crank and fixed it properly for the customer. I never did much engine repair work when I was a machinist but I'm pretty sure I would have assumed the crank was straight from the grinding shop. Having said that, it's great to watch your videos, I always learn something from them.
Makes you wonder if the journals are right. It turned soft so i could under stand why it was bent.ANOTHER GREAT JOB.
Crank alterations are difficult. You can make the whole assembly much more solid by installing a bolt and nut as a jacking screw opposite the big end journal's. That way when you put pressure on from the tailstock it doesn't deflect it. You can also use four jaw chuck and throw chuck end off and just get final journal and portion next to live centre running true. You have done an amazing job.
Josh, yes I did enjoy your crank shaft. And you did well!! Especially putting a taper on the crank. Excellent....
Thanks 👍
This job really did not bit you in the butt, but it gave you an opportunity to straighten out a bent shaft - I'd say that was a win-win in my book! Thanks for sharing!
Not a machinist, but I find your content inherently interesting. Keep up the great work bro!
Glad you enjoy it!
I feel the same way!!!!
Did one about 20 years ago, I was 38 years old, just use your skills! I do have an old skid steer. It has the kohler engine in it.
"LIKE" button has been torqued to the manufacturer's recommended specification. "CLICK".
God forbid you should be running around with a loose "LIKE" button !
Thanks for showing us how to produce A class work every time.
I just bought a lathe wanting to be like you. It's sorta fun hunting all the parts needed to get it going...almost there. In the mean time, I have a good time disassembling & cleaning all the parts that actually lets me learn everything about it.
nice work...and I suspect it was not too easy to find out where the part was bent...glad it was only on the end you could cut off though, that doesn't happen too often.
Thanks for sharing
I got lucky on this one. So did the owner for that matter.
@@TopperMachineLLC absolutely that could have been a really expensive problem ..
In this kind of work I find it rare that things go like they should. There always seems to be something that comes up
Josh,
Ya did it again, great job !!!! That start on the interupted cut on that hardened shaft had my pucker factor on HI.....Your taper attachment saved the day, that and your attention to the fine details. Raining here again/still.....things aren't rusting, they are friggin molding....LOL....12 cord of firewood and can't even get em dry enuf to stack to dry !!!!
Don
The tail shaft wasn't that hard. I'm guessing just the journals were hard. But it came out good.
We've been getting some rain, but nowhere near enough. Hopefully we don't get dumped on this winter again. Don't think I can take that again.
Take on jobs we KNOW we shouldn't take on. And then take them again the next time they come around... Small business life.
You have great editing on your videos. Keep up the good work.
Great job. As aggravating as this piece was..... based on other videos, it does seem like you enjoy challenging work!
I am the only shop in the area left that does real work, so I see a ton of odd and complex work. This was actually a fairly easy one.
I bet you will get a lot of Wisconsin Engine people sending you their stuff ;)
Working on stuff other shops have worked on is always a gamble, you threw aces! You have great content that is so relateable. Great video and we are always learning new way of skinning a cat!
Wondering if part of your walk is from the balance. Had a similar problem a few years ago, indicated in fine but after cutting it was out about 9 tenths. Ended uo putting bob weights on the journals and it cut fine. Love your stuff, especially the giant sawr blade!
It was definitely bent. He has it back together and it runs like a champ.
It's leaving a lot better than it came in Josh, guessing after this video, you'll be getting more requests for automotive work 😮😊.
Great job, and video.
Thanks for sharing
I sure hope not. Lol
Nicely done josh Your right always more work than you think and usually high risk just to get the original work done 👍👍👍
Not only that, but it always brings in the cheapest people. I now just tell people I'm not an automotive machine shop and therefore don't have the tooling and equipment. Then they like to argue that it's only a 10 minute job. But it's the 2-3 hours of setup they don't want to pay for. Not worth my time. But this was kind of an exception. No automotive machine shop would be able to handle this.
Great work and the price was decent (although the 76 year old customer doesn’t realize inflation has happened lol)
I would have started the tap in the end of the shaft while the steady rest was in place using a spring-loaded center in the tailstock to guide the tap. Other than that, I was impressed with your approach and the results you got. I always enjoyed using the taper attachment on the Cincinnati tray top I worked with years ago.
I felt far safer just hand taping. Last thing you want is a broken tap at this point of the job.
A lot of good instructional tips. Thanks for making these videos.
Taper attachment runs nice and smooth
I completely rebuilt it several years back. I got in a quote for a big taper job and decided I'd better go through it. I got the job, and got very good at using the taper attachment.
I'd like to see that back in the crank grinder. Its probably close enough for low rpm this thing runs but it has to be off.
Great work - appreciate you sharing it. I picked up some great set up ideas and techniques from this video. Cheers. 👍👍
Beautiful repair!
i have had guys with this exact job come to me, they want it done perfectly for pennies!
That is exactly the problem with engine work. I almost always refuse and refer them to the closest automotive machine shop.
Did you see how much the shaft dipped when you put your tail stock in the new center hole? The shaft end in your chuck is not concentric. I hope this crank shaft isn't a waste of time since it isn't all that straight. How did that work out? It has been 9 months now...surely it got installed and used by now. Seals and bearings would suffer if that bend is a problem.
I did not see it from my angle that day, but it is still running strong. Machine will outlast the owner. He was absolutely thrilled I could do that.
An excellent job due to good thinking, expertise and past experience.
Thank you very much!
Hello Josh, Enjoy your down home approach to machining, Adam from Abom79 has been using Anchor Lube for a few years now with great success, Bob A.
Thanks. I just discovered it and am extremely impressed.
Always enjoy watching your methods. Thank You
Very cool technique with the steady rest.
Thanks 👍
I know that crankshaft, mine is out of a 610 Bobcat, the engine was locked up all 4 cyls and broke every stud that held the heads down. I made a drill bushing for the studs and got all of them out, was able to knock out all 4 pistons and reuse them knurling the skirts, I aggressively honed the cylinders to .010 oversize and file fit a new set of rings to the cylinders. This was done over about a month. Got it back together and have been using it since 2012. Does not use any oil and runs perfectly. The only way this was possible was that I have a machine shop in my basement. These are things you do for yourself, this machine was junk before it got to me.
Did the interrupted cut along the shaft cause the warp? The constant percussion along that particular line, perhaps. I hate interrupted cuts like that. I once put a very small sloped shoulder on the leading edge which seemed to help, and didn't seem to affect the holding power of the keyway later.
No, it was bent before I started cutting
Well done Josh, you did exactly what I would have done. Cheers Ian - New Zealand
It is a bugger when you get caught up in something, not even in a nightmare could you envisage. I find that playing at home that happens rather frequently, I am always looking for the circling Blue Bird of Happiness. Rather good save... Goodonya
This was a very interesting project and it was great that it turned out well
Place a shim between the live center and the shaft center. A triangle shim cut to 30 degs works good.
You can get the tir to .001 or less.
Hi. That was a tricksy little bugger with the bent shaft. I just wondered why you didn’t just tap the thread on the lathe while the crank was in the fixed steady?
Good job! Just wondering though... Did you also measure the center main bearing to see where the bend was? I don't remember seeing that part. Also wondered if maybe they just left the end of the crank rough machined to the largest size so the customer could custom match it to whatever clapped out drive mechanism they had?
Wisconsin v4 engines have no center main. This was a used, but reground crank out of something else. End of the shaft was definitely bent.
Good job on crank modification, I bet that crank is out of a vf4d Wisconsin engine in a 610 Bobcat skid loader. Worked on them when dinosaurs roamed the earth. What you did is the only thing that can be done because Wisconsin has been out of business for awhile.
It was a Gehl skid steer. The best option was to buy a wheel loader and fork the skid steer into the scrap dumpster.
@@TopperMachineLLC Sometimes the correct fix isn't the repair.
Very interesting Josh ! I was right there with you-- watching from BERMUDA lol
Very nice job. That old Monarch with taper attachment is a wonderful machine.
Do they run that VH4D (or whatever) on propane? I love my old Wisconsin AGNDs and others, but an Isuzu diesel would be a better choice.
Just gas. Hardly anyone uses propane unless inside a industrial plant.
@@TopperMachineLLC Right. Makes sense, thanks.
Great Work You Do Thanks For Helping That Guy Out
Glad to help
VH4D Wisconsin motors were used for many many years in manufacturing of tobacco harvesters down here in the south which looks like what you had ?!
Thanks for sharing. Engines are fickle.
Hello Josh , nice job on the shaft . I was interested in how you set up to cut the taper . I've got 1943 Monarch CY16 with the same taper attachment but I've never used it , maybe some time in the future you could go into more detail on how to set it up .I was also wondering what model is your machine ?
If you have never used it, you probably should tear it down and rebuild it. There are several small bearings in it that will need to be replaced. They are super handy once you figure it out. Mine is an 18CU, I also have a 12CK
I got the machine about a year and a half ago , it had a few issues that I fixed , I did replace all the bearings in the taper attachment . I took the oil lines off in the head stock to make sure they were clear , replaced one metering valve that gos to the sight glass . Now I have an issue with no oil dripping out . I hope to do some work with this machine some day . Thanks for the videos@@TopperMachineLLC
Excellent job, Josh.
Second time you've mentioned Anchorlube...been using Tap Magic for stuff like this and it does smoke! Guess I need to try some green goop instead!
Good stuff
A most impressive repair and taper. Really interesting.
Really good content thanks for sharing! But I know how aggravating it is I had one that I did awhile back.experience is the best teacher!
Really nice work a pleasure to watch video Thanks.
There always has to be Mr. Negativity posting snarky comments. Please ignore and keep posting GREAT videos.
Thank you. I just need to remember that the negative comments are from people who are jealous.
That certainly was a tricky job, but you nailed it. I'm really wondering what was wrong with the old crankshaft that it needed to be replaced.
He spun a bearing, and just decided to have this one ready to go before tearing it down. Once he tore it down, he found the shafts were different.
The keyway for the flywheel on the Bobcat crank worked loose and got all tore up. 35 years of just him running it wasn’t bad to just finally let go right!?
@cylheadman was it a spun bearing on the swather engine then? It has been a while and I know i have details messed up. I could have sworn he said it was a Gehl skid steer also. I need to start writing these details down.
@@TopperMachineLLC it was a spun bearing on the bobcat. The Swather was fine and a decent donor.
He probably rattled so many names and points in time. He never had a Gehl but they took Wisconsin engines so maybe he was rattling a list. He’s not the easiest 76 year old to follow 😂
Excellent job Josh, I don't like working on engine parts either but sometimes it pays, lol, great video, keep'um coming..
Josh them same customers that acted like they did come pay your bill time are the very reason why machine shops pass on jobs. Good luck in the future.
I have been a home shop machinist for many years. I have made antique car parts, repaired them, designed and built cyclecars. And I have turned tapers on crankshafts. I don't have any problems with customers who want auto parts machined! Learn by your mistakes and don't blame them on others and you will do a better job and become a more accomplished machinist. I still like your videos, keep it up.
The problem isn't the work. It's the fact that the customer thinks I can do it cheaper than an automotive machine shop with their specialized equipment. Engine machining is totally different in tools and equipment. Something I have none of, nor do I want it. I am a professional shop doing industrial work, far from a hobbyist. When you're doing this for a living, a 20 minute job at the engine machine shop can be a 3 hour job at a regular machine shop. The customer doesn't want to pay that difference, and I don't want to waste my time on a underpaying job.
I have no problem doing engine work on steam engines or prairie tractors pre 1930, but again that's a whole different thing.
Was there a big chunk missing from the rim of the hub? Doesnt that cause problems when its running? (I know its not strictly part of the crankshaft you were working on).
Yes there was, and considering parts are not available, he has to use it.
Good job indeed. Thanks for uploading this video.
GREAT JOB SIR HAPPINESS
ASK WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE ANOTHER TRAINS VIDEO
Due to the threads received from the Federal Railroad Administration, it will not be likely.
Old mechanical skid steers are starting to be worth money in some places.
That is because the new ones are serious money. I don't like them, but I guess it's better than a shovel and wheelbarrow.
As someone who owns an old skidsteer, I can confirm that people spend too much trying to keep them running
always great content Josh, cheers from Florida, Paul
How was the shop able to grind the crank accurately if it was bent?
Good question
Josh you are good at what you do I love machine work between you and CEE and Keith rutger I love these videos abom 79 went Hollywood what ever happened to Keith fenner from cape cod
Keith Fenner is still active. Just more so on another platform.
You can water down anchor lube and use it in one of those blunt-syringe squeeze bottles. I see that lots of channels are pushing this stuff lately. If you're sponsored, you should say. We still trust your experience but if you're getting a kick back, you should disclose that you have an interest.
If I mention a product, it is sponsored. But rest assured, I will not promote garbage. If it didn't work, or I didn't like it, I'd never promote it. I did quite a bit of testing with anchorlube before using it on a video. It really is good stuff.
@@TopperMachineLLC Duly noted. I think I'm reacting to Vevor getting their tenticles into the youtube shop scene, which I find annoying. Everyone at the same time. Anchor Lube is also in a big promotion currently but it's already got a good reputation, so it is less bothersome. Keep up the good work. 60k!
@@neffk Vevor has reached out to me a few times and want me to try their crap. They always suggest a product, and I counter with one I actually want to try. They never get back to me. They actually have a product I would like to try out and actually would use, but they don't follow through. As for anchorlube, I have nothing bad to say about it. I think it is a great product with so many benefits.
Great work Josh!
Well done on the edge of my seat all the way
Nice save!👍👍
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера....
Josh, Is there a reason you did not tap the hole with the job in the lathe after you finished the taper?
Control. Last thing I want is to break the Tap in the crank shaft. At least by hand, I can feel when I am in trouble.
@@TopperMachineLLCGood answer
hello josh it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks josh friends randy
Nice save
@11:56 ... I've been called out before, but not by name! 🤣
Wouldn't you be better off cutting that output shaft to length FIRST using the steady rest without concern that you'd mark up the surface on the portion of the shaft you're gonna cut away anyway when you make the taper? (order of operations question) Edit: Seems like you morphed to that approach (circa 10:00) once you realized you had the slight bend in the shaft
Dear Mr.Topper, it seems at some point in time, you got spooked with auto parts machining. Machining a part is machining a part, auto or not. Hang in there. New viewer, like your videos.
The problem is never the work. It is the customer of engine work. That is why I almost always refer them on to automotive machine shops.
We run these old machines because they are cheap. Lol. I have a 40 year old john deere 24a and I have $5k in it including the backhoe attachment and mods that I have done. It's a simple machine and the huge costs of newer models just isn't worth it for what I do with it. I use it around my place for moving parts and general clean up. My brother uses it at his mobile home park for maintenance and upgrades. Good job.
I understand the cost aspect but get a wheel loader and you would be amazed at what you have been missing out on. They don't tear up the ground as bad when turning, lifting and carrying capacity is amazing, and they sell for less than any skid steer used.
@TopperMachineLLC Yeah, I need the compactness of a skidsteer as well as attachments that I run. I can still haul my machine on my 20' car trailer behind my half ton. I haven't had to use my dually in a long time. Lol
Did it work in the engine ?
Nice work
For someone is scared of automotive jobs. I would bring my parts to you. I make automotive parts. The key is patience.
Well done sir....well done.
Starting from a bent shaft to make something straight. That's a challenge.
Hell you got it Josh, no prob Bob!
I have no idea what you are complaining about. Other stuff does not bite you in the ass from time to time? I wager it does. Automotive work is no different than anything else. From what I see of you here, problem solving is not an issue with you at all, the hallmark of a good machinist and repairman. If automotive past experiences get you down....Just pretend it is a crankshaft from kind of water pump with a slight problem to solve. See?...No problem 😁🤣
I do love the shape of a Monarch steady. They are so nicely designed
Keep the wife from complaining? Nah...she simply will not complain about the smoke, it'll be the mess on your t-shirt from the anchor lube slinging off all over your clothes! But that is a small price to pay. Anchor lube is outstanding especially on Stainless steel and using with annular cutters in the mag drill. Still I tend to use standard cutting oil. Most people slather too much on. you only need a small bit. Whether it be oil or Anchor lube.
I should have elaborated on the problem with engine work. The customer is always the cheapest person on earth and will complain about price. This job wasn't bad, and he knew I was the only one who could solve it. I was very reasonable with price, to help him out. But in general, engine work is a pain because I don't have engine machines and tooling. Therefore, setup is time consuming. I've seen what these engine shops charge, and I wonder how they stay in business. It's mostly the equipment and dedicated setups. They can just slap it in, quick indicate and tweek and away they go. Whereas a shop like mine has to make fixtures, or figure out setups. Then there is time in setting it up and indicating. Yes the job itself is easy, and that's the only part they want to pay for. Something that takes 15 minutes at the engine shop could take a regular machine shop a couple hours.
This is the real problem.
@@TopperMachineLLC True that is. I worked in a automotive shop once and there is a huge difference for example between cutting a deck a Storm Vulcan block mill and fly cutting on a milling machine for example. However most automotive shops could not or would not do what you did to that crank. In this instance they brought it to the right guy!
@@warrenjones744 thank you! I honestly wondered if an automotive machine shop could do this. You're the 3rd to confirm they couldn't/wouldn't!
You make it look easy ! 😁.