Send this to your boss and watch them struggle to find a reason why you still have to come in. Sources - globalworkplaceanalytics.com/resources/costs-benefits www.anzam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf-manager/1687_ANZAM-2014-293.PDF royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239
Pre-Covid, our CTO (and co-founder) sat in the engineering team section of the open office layout right next to me. I’m just a lowly dev. Open office arrangements can work based off culture imho. Personally, I would prefer to come in one day a week on a Friday to do all-hands meeting and that’s it.
"Open offices" have nothing to do with collaboration, it's about reducing the cost/square foot of employee workspace, eliminating employee privacy, and enabling micro-managing "boomers" to justify their existence by being able to "insert" themselves into ongoing work where they have little/nothing to actually contribute. Edit: to clarify, the word "boomer" in this context refers to those with a self-centered, top-down, feedback-dismissive mindset, not necessarily belonging to a particular age group.
I one time suggested to a boomer boss that they try getting some Udemy courses teaching the basics of the jobs they manage so they will have some idea of what their employees are doing. They were horrified by the suggestion and eventually said that they can't do that.
I saw an office floorplan of my friend's workplace. It just screams micromanagement. Rows of computers without cubicles facing away from the boss's glass office. He could just stand up and observe the activity of every employee.
The open office layout is so good for productivity and collaboration that the CEO has their own personal office walled off from the open layout so that they can get work done and meets with other people in meeting rooms walled off from the open layout so that they can get some productive collaboration done.
well, i don't wanna defend them, however, i think that's kind of needed for security reasons, ie they know and talk about sensitive business-related stuff. then again, they could work from home if their environment complies with security directives
My old company was exactly like this everyone everyone worked in the open office and the CEO and the sales director worked in a closed office. Because I and my team worked with clients in the phone trying to solve costumer problems than they IT team could not solve was so fun to try to concentrate and put a huge network back online while trying to ignore other technician trying to solve a database problem from another customer while listening to the girl from sales trying to pitch a new support contract to a new costumer. It was so great. And fun fact if someone made a sale they would ring a bell and made everyone applaud.
Open spaces have been shat on in studies since their inception. Reduced productivity, increased exhaustion, now this. Whoever invented them has made a great grift, hats off.
Never have I had some kind of mental breakthrough talking to somebody else on an hour long meeting. "Collaboration" (in the format that corporations love to push) kills creativity and innovation. Most of the great technological breakthroughs throughout history came at the hands of introverts who spent their time deep in thought, and then after making a brilliant discovery, came back and shared those thoughts with everybody else. If Edison worked in an open office environment we'd still be living in the dark.
Exactly, most innovation is the result of one brilliants person's ideas not some collaboration BS. The majority of these work meetings are a total waste of time where absolutely nothing gets accomplished and like you rightly pointed out are counter productive to those that need peace and quiet to think clearly, I personally am far more productive when working alone in a quiet room than in a room full of distracting noises.
Newton made his breakthrough on gravity while he was in quarantine due to the plague. And it really works. Got stuck on some problem? Go for a nice walk, you'll probably have at least one decent new solution by the end. Our thoughts are steered partially by the environment, if we sit in the same office all day every day with the same people there's no variation in ideas as well.
Always felt like something was wrong with me because I found myself solving complex problems WAY faster at home rather than at the open office with a thousand distractions. When the work requires a high degree of concentration, intellect and problem solving, it can feel like trying to concentrate in the middle of a construction site. I know this might upset some people but I’m so thankful for the pandemic knowing that it kickstarted the remote work renaissance.
My husband has been working from home for the last three years. He's never been happier and more engaged. Loves the job and saves a ton of time in commute. When he needs help, he chats with his supervisor or just calls them and they share the screen. The second bedroom in our apartment is his office now and has all the privacy and quiet he wants. Can't think why a company would be against saving themselves having to rent office space, pay for electricity, water and other utilities, office supplies, cleaning, etc. All they gave him was the workstation and they pay for a dedicated internet line, that't it. My husband got his own desk and chair. When the pandemic hit, his company did not suffer even a bit. The worst that can happen is the internet connection going down, which has only happened a handful of times since he started this job. Old people who are bosses are just stuck in their old ways.
It's not always "old" people, although that's an arbitrary term. I am 60 and love my hybrid work schedule (I work from home 2 days a week). However, my 25 years younger boss, hates WFH and tells us he would cancel it if he could, but he has no basis for doing so. While there is a front facing aspect to some of what I do, about 75% of my time is spent planning on the phone and in front of a computer screen. I am actually more efficient when I WFH. Of course, even if our WFH policy was revoked, he'd continue to quietly "WFH" himself most Mondays and Fridays like he always has way before COVID was a thing.
Its because hedge funds spent billions of dollars on corporate real estate. They need people to be working in those buildings. Since less people are working in those buildings. Hedge funds are now purchasing private homes to rent out.
@@thegmack1019 which isn't an argument since that cost was agreed upfront rather you use it or not. Its the same. At leash WFH saves on other utility and supply bills
@@thegmack1019 the businesses investment in the property has nothing to do with the employees. If you are renting office space cancel the lease, you might pay a cancellation fee but you will end up saving way more in the long run. Plus your employees will have better output working from home so its a win for everyone. No this isnt about the office space itself, there are more political reason that youre not being told about. Maybe the owner of the company wants to get away from his wife and kids, maybe the middle manager has a thing for the young receptionist, maybe the HR lady cant listen in 9n conversations... YOU will never be told the real reason why they want you to go back to the office.
Open offices were only created for ONE reason, lowered costs and able to be watched, it has NOTHING to do with collaborating with others, it's actually MORE annoying and works against a good working environments and increases anxiety no less....
My entire company is “remote first”. We have been killing our sales numbers every single year. Coworkers are incredibly helpful and supportive. Nobody micromanages, mangers are understanding when you need to take days off and encourage you to take a break whenever and however long you want. It is literally the greatest thing ever. I can work from wherever and the corporate environment is balanced with my life. Plus, if my company opens up in other countries, I can literally work from wherever in the world. Remote work is the best fucking thing in the world.
You are doing God's work Josh. These companies are stuck in the 1950s, it's time to modernize these boomers who still use fax machines and carrier pigeons and don't understand email and zoom meetings
Great comment although I think you are wrong about being stuck in the 1950s. The modern open office is different than the open offices in the past and its got nothing to do with productivity but all to do with control
“Elevate their work results instead of their presence” this is why so many managers fight against WFH. They rose to power with extroversion tendencies. Introverts excel at home and for these managers that could mean a power shift- since they have less work result and all the “presence”
As an employer, I don't care if my collegues work in the office, at home, in a submarine or in space. Get the job done and be the biggest contributor to the companies success and don't be a leech or lazy. Need a break? Take it. Need a week long vacation? Take it. Want to spend extra time with family? Take it. Just get the job done. Nothing is a problem. Doing nothing is a problem.
"Any time we make a sale, a gong goes off and we all cheer." Oh, fuck off. Worked as a telemarketer for a bit. We had a gong too. Just one of the many utterly shit features in the worst job I've ever had. For context on "worst job", the job I had after that was planting trees in the middle of winter.
I had a manager tell a friend of mine that it is not about productivity but about presence. Many of these managers are stuck in that place that "if I can't see you then you are not working". Here is the goofy thing with my friend, this person's office was in another building. So it is even weirder. I just need you to sit in your office to make me feel like you are doing something here. It is just a fear that people working remotely are just being lazy or trying to get out of work. Boomer mentality I guess.
Absolutely disgusting to put people in an open office plan. Any "corporate" means of improving productivity always means less autonomy, control and money for workers. We live in a clown world
This just goes to show how important abuse is to some people. With all of the money that companies would save having employees WFH, they still want people in the office to abuse. When you're at work, you tend to talk more: "Me and my wife just had our first baby." Now the company knows you really need the job. They can relocate you for a longer commute without more pay, etc and you'll take more crap from them because you can't afford to be out of work. Corporate is the epitome of toxic.
@@curiouspenguin6887 lolololol you're 100% right. But all it takes is a baby seat in the back seat of your car, and the rest is history. Or the lady in Payroll informs your boss that you claimed a new dependent. Or the nursery calls your job with an emergency cause they couldn't get you on your cell. There's so many ways to inadvertently tell a narcissistic boss you entirely depend on the job.
My boss punishes me now this way. I am allowed to stay home if I don't have a certain requrement. But if he feels like punishing me he makes that requirement.
I'm in management and I promise you MOST managers do think this way. It makes me sick. I got into management because I wanted to solve problems, but after 9+yrs in management Im confident management creates 90% of the problems themselves. Usually because they fail to understand ppl. They understand the manipulation techniques, but they don't really understand the person itself. There is an attitude of "i own you" in management. And upper upper management is completely clueless. They mean well I think, but they miss the ball most the time. Like corporate expecting managers to do the same labor of their employees to fool employees into thinking "this is great, managers get us",.....but that's not what happens. Managers don't get paid by the hour and basically become indentured servants for no reason. Employees may like the temporary "revenge" but it doesn't solve the root cause of their anger. Low pay and bad work life balance. Management making management into cheap worker bees doesn't solve that issue. The willingness to sacrifice some profit in order to offer better pay and worklife balance is what is required.
My boss had a "talk" with me today about leaving 30 mins earlier than I'm supposed to, even though I work during lunch(which according to them was fine prior to today), I have never missed deadlines, have done all my work diligently, get paid way less than I should be because the workload is a lot, fucking getting tired of this corporate bs almost one year into working after graduation
@@theastuteangler one year can make a huge difference lol, I generally started giving less shits after one year and it's been 2 years now and still have the same job, although starting a new one in a couple of weeks
A workspace that's an "open pit." Wow...I can't think of a more appropriate word for such a workplace than a PIT! I work in the business end of healthcare for one of the largest healthcare companies in the USA. Our department has been remote for over 9 years. We have had 2 people leave us...one due to health issues and the other retired. Other than that, no turn over. We have productivity and quality standards our team must meet...we always exceed them. As a result, my company started sending as much of their workers home as possible even before the pandemic. They saw the results of their remote departments and said, "Hey it works!" Win/Win situation.
Citi's opening is slow, and i haven't submitted to go back to the office. None of my team members did. Not even the managers who proclaimed to "love working in the office and foster 'collaboration'' ". what a bunch of poppycock. Middle management are no longer needed other than being nosy and contradicting themselves, they don't even know that they're becoming obsolete lol.
Good. Fire them and use the freed up cash to hire people that actually make the stuff. I know that it’s a huge problem in tech, having the most talented developers just see their job title inflate, while in the end, they’re reporting to someone else. No one likes being the bottom of the subordination food chain, so talented people try to pigeon hole themselves into management. That needs to go away. We need the people who are best at building the stuff to actually do so.
@@vladimirkliman7185 How to get a promotion - Go to your boss and tell him that you are now co-boss. When he refuses, place his hand on your geniiitalia and take a photo with your phone (works best for women, and I assume the boss is a guy because why would you work for a woman boss, unless you enjoy torturing yourself). Then, go to HR and tell them that you are in an office relationship. When they ask who, say the boss, and show them the picture for proof. Then, go back to your boss and say, "Don't worry, I told HR about.... Us". Ignore the confused look on his face and immediately start ordering people to do things. Congratulations, you are now co-boss. Works 100 percent of the time, 30 percent of the time.
@@rickb06 Preach Man. We do the work we should get a fair share. How would feel if everyone makes Pizzas and one guy and take like 10 Pizzas and Everyone else have to share one?
That Guy work from home is the kind of recalibration that society could really use. Last 60 years of declining marriage rates, two income households becoming the norm (and necessary in many metro areas), and other things, have really devalued family. Imagine now if one or both parents can work from home? No more daycare needed because a parent is always home to take care of the kid. We can pull responsibility away from the state and towards the family when it comes to raising kids. I know that my life has improved quite a bit thanks to working from home
I've never needed to "collaborate" on anything in an office environment. In the event I actually need to ask my management a question, I can just as easily do so via Webex, Skype, or similar applications. There is ostensibly no reason to require people who work in networking to come to a physical office to do their work.
I've been forced to show up to the office, and within the first hour I had been interrupted 5 times with stupid questions that could've been IM'd/emailed and people that just wanted to socialize. I watched my own boss be interrupted constantly while he was trying to tell me something lol. It's so stupid being surrounded by people constantly, not to mention I finished my work early and just had to sit there, staring off into space and clicking around an excel spreadsheet to look busy. At home at least I could read a book in front of the computer waiting for an email.
100:1 is already amazing, but this is almost 100% upvotes. Yeah, it's pretty clear the only people being against homeoffice are real estate boomers and incompetent managers. Everyone else sees a win-win scenario where the company saves tons of money in reduced office spaces and everything that comes with it (furniture, electricity, rent, ...) and workers save at least hundreds of hours each year of reduced time stuck in traffic and other shit to deal with.
you are doing gods work my son....I am retired now, working in my offshore digs, at age 80...it was absolutely wonderful and life saving to escape the office blow-hards, bellowing on their phones and chewing ice. etc.... you will change many more lives as you keep up this fine work.
Recently during office party my boss asked me (after two glasses of wine) if I am looking forward to go back to the office. I told him, no. We all work (all people even people on higher / management positions) in open space. I told him, I find it disruptive and I have my noise cancelling headphones on anyway at all times. It appears he not only shares my views but also we bonded over same brand of noise cancelling headphones to avoid human interaction in the office and focus on work ;)
Love that you mentioned the ADA compliance component too. As someone with Autism and ADHD, the open office space is literally my hell. I am lucky enough to have an office space where I can close the door and close blinds. I am a great collaborative worker but the distraction and sensory overload of people constantly having access to me does not work. I also can sit in really weird ways that help me but would be strange in an open office I'm sure. I would be way less productive in an open office layout. I also get Monday as a work from home day and it's really nice to work as I want during the day & I'm often more productive than when I'm in the office. For a lot of people with my kind of disabilities, I've heard that they've had to disclose their condition to get accommodations for a silent room etc, which isn't great when a lot of people have a lot of stereotypes and biases against people with ADHD/Autism. It's an example of how WFH and closed offices help people without disabilities but can also help with overall accessibility.
Trust me you don’t. One thing you will appreciate later in life is noise cancellation within your house and closed spaces around the kitchen to block cooking smells from moving around
This reminds me a lot of what I just saw in Iceland: companies changed the work week from 5 8 hour days to 4 9 hour days. They actually found more productivity. To which I’d say: of course. The overhead of commuting makes people slow at the beginning and end of the day. Even WFH, it takes me a bit to fire up. Also, if you’re an employee at a company, it’s almost certain that you’re not working straight 40. You’re goofing off. You’re watching TH-cam. You’re listening to music, or doing personal stuff, or whatever. So now they’ve eliminated goof off time.
I can't see how having lockers would be a bad thing? Its a safe place to put your things, especially good if you need to store a change of clothes at work (like if you cycle to work or go to the gym immediately before/after).
Here's something no one has brought up yet...it is entirely possible to micromanage people working remotely. The last job I had was like this...the entire company is remote and every employee had a personal Slack channel and had to update it with what they were doing all day long. Later the CEO read through all of them! He came down hard on people who didn't put in enough detail because "he didn't know what they were doing". Needless to say, turnover is high.
Honestly, they are more likely to do it when working remotely, and from what you said it seems like it would be worse at home than in the office. Not to mention when you working remotely people have a problem with enforcing work and life balance. Simply because the lines get blurred. Not to mention there are just some jobs that can't be done at home or would require a large amount of trust to be done at home. Plus, security weakens at home. Among many other things. Everything has its Pros and Cons.
"Private spaces should be the default state." Crazy that this whole concept is even in question, but you bringing awareness to these backwards moving companies is one of the greatest things ever.
When I worked in an open office we talked to each other all the time, it's how I made friends with my coworkers. It didn't mean we collaborated more though. Sometimes someone would ask how to solve a programming problem, but it didn't mean we sat next to each other to figure it out. We also all wore headphones about half the day and would chat online with each other even if we were 15 feet apart, it's just how we work sometimes.
Your videos have instilled in me an uncanny confidence in dealing with employers and my job. Well done Joshua Fluke, your voice is needed in these times
Agreed! It's a BIG LIE that's going on for too long. Thanks for bringing that up. I've been working from home for 2 years and I feel I got more things done, both for work and family
I despise offices like this. I went to work for a small start up that looked like these offices in the video. Flat screen TVs everywhere, couches, 3 lounge rooms, kitchen filled with food, etc. I thought it was a nice concept at first. Well....not so fast! I quickly learned that companies create offices like this so you won’t go home as early! Being an introvert, this set up is a disaster. There’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying in this video.
I just graduated in network engineering. I'm applying for work but honestly.. All these jobs just feel like beeing member in a cult or some shit. I don't like it at all and I'm considering finding something else to do.
Yeah I don’t mind being part of a team but when it comes down to it, I want to be left alone and just be able to grind my work out alone. I would hate having other people right next to me, especially being able to see them, a simple barrier would help me focus more, it’s just less input.
I must admit, I’ve worked in sales in a call center, open floor, and I personally hated the sale celebrations. I preferred celebrating where we won’t have to be disturbing people on calls.
I remember back then when the teacher hovers at the students one by one when you are doing school work, it's unnerving and makes you lose focus, even if you know the project well. I know I'm not the only one who feels like this on my school days, but why do they think that it causes productivity when it is applied on the workforce. Even group activities in one classroom is distracting as well.
the main benefit of open plan offices is that you can cram more people into less space. That's how it's marketed to companies, and that's why companies do it. Been going on in Europe for decades, and they're finally starting to revert on it somewhat. Not wanting your people working from home is mainly because managers (especially middle managers) think that their underlings aren't going to work when they're not constantly having said managers literally look over their shoulders. That's changed a bit with the forced working from home due to covid, but as requirements to do so are being lifted, more and more managers are immediately banning remote working again, they've learned nothing. And they're using the "remote working is less productive, so everyone must be in the office" argument, that's been largely proven groundless over the last year and a half.
My husband's international company has had him work from home for the last 4 years. His coworkers are in Dallas, Minnesota, London, Scotland, just to name a few. They all get their job done from home. It saves our family 3 hours a day commute & $250/month commuting costs. At 5:30 he leaves his office and joins the family for diner. Previously he would get home between 7:30 - 8:30 unless there was a traffic or weather delay and he could get home as late as 10 pm. Occasionally he has gone to the office and every time has come home saying he didn't need to go. All the people he was dealing with were on-line. Working from home doesn't work for all people or all positions, but smart companies know this is the direction business is headed and are embracing it.
I was a "Debbie Downer" and "not a team player" when I said I hated the "Agile space." People literally sit at computers with headphones on / earbuds in and send emails and IM's to someone sitting less than 5 feet away. IT.DOES.NOT.HELP.ANYTHING. And with COVID, turns out it was a really stupid idea after all.
@Joshua the problem is that the employers do not trust their employees. They think that by letting employees wfh they (employees) can start their own venture.
I work in the open office environment, it is noisy, lot of distraction, and people constantly check out other people computers. We had a several collaboration training before the pandemic, it is somewhat helpful and time consuming.
Just showed it to my boss and got fired for not being a team player, not drinking the company koolaid, and because fomenting the idea of working from home may have him working from home thus he would not be able to "look" at the pretty chicks.
Cubicles are fucked. They give you the idea that you have your own space, while you're still in a noisy office. Separate rooms are much better. I had to make quite the adjustment to the American cubicle standard when I moved from Europe. But in Europe they skipped the whole cubicle step at one company I worked for. From (shared) offices in actual rooms with floor to ceiling walls, doors and windows to the outside to the "open office" horrible noise zoo.
As an introvert I can tell you if you want to drop my productivity to 0% put me in an open office plan. It's not that I have anything to hide, I simply freeze up in that type of environment. I have worked very hard to achieve my dream office location. I am a happy DBA that works in a private office, in a basement, behind a locked door. :-) If I can't work from home, this is the next best thing.
I read and respond to e-mail for a living. Been that way for 16 years now. Been working from home since March 2020 and productivity office wide substantially increased. Management's assessment and report. Not mine. So what did management just announce yesterday based on this evidence? They decided to renew their rental contract to continue leasing their office space and bring everyone back to physically sit in a chair so we can continue e-mailing each other within the office culture. I am seriously stupefied and thinking of taking an early retirement.
@@cetriyasArtnComicsChannel This is seriously an introvert vs extrovert issue. There is absolutely no reason for either you or me to physically drive in to an office any more. The pandemic has proven this once and for all. It is especially egregious for folks like me who live in a cold northern climate and have to deal with snow and ice 6 months out of the year. This is just mind blowingly ignorant extrovert dictatorial nonsense at its finest. Trust falls everyone! Sis boom rah! Yay!
When I work in my open office I put headphones on to get rid of the noise and I find it unbelievably distracting seeing people move around. So in essence I shrink the space to the size of my head anyway. Working from home is for me. I do miss the social aspect, but everything else is better. Collab is fine, that is what MS Teams is for. Innovation comes from within, not just by smashing people together in a claustrophobic space. If you need to meet with someone, you do so. No problem.
Josh! You had me at the SNAP! Lol and less automobile fatalities! Side note: my sister in law works for the government patent office, and has mostly worked remote for years! Thus the reason why the dogs have separation anxiety every time she drives to pick up her spouse who doesn’t work from home.
At my department in my company, we have a brainstorming meeting through zoom at the start of every design. We reach out through slack when we have questions or if we want to bounce other ideas with fellow employees on Slack. Then you go through multiple design reviews and documentation reviews. There is plenty of collaboration imbedded into the design process.
There are too many start up wannabes out there who all look the same and act the same and are battling to become the next "Google" which these days in impossible, no wonder most of them fail.
I take frequent bathroom breaks when I'm working and I can say with confidence my productivity is a lot higher at home where my bathroom is only 10 feet away from me as opposed to when I was working in a cubicle farm and would have to take minutes just to get to the bathroom!
Used to work for a tech company that also rang a gong after every sale. It brought my morale down and made me dread every sale (and I never once missed my number at that job and am still in sale). I couldn’t stand the fact they never let me work remote and left before a year despite my success. I now work remote and absolutely love it.
I worked for CBRE 2015 to 2017. They were so proud of their open office. It's super uncomfortable and energy draining because everyone on the floor can see everyone all the time.
@@genxx2724 that's interesting and probably, true. But - I only worked for CBRE for 25 months and it did not seem to attract overtly narcissistic types. I only encountered 2 or 3; far less than other places I've experienced in my work history. I once worked below 2 narcissists - quite the team and did quite the number on my psyche. It was because of those two, that I sometime later started learning about narcissists and their behaviors and tactics.
I never have the guts to share your videos to my management, but I always hope they get popular enough that they'll stumble across them anyway. Or that they'll be influential enough in the developer communities that it will slowly change expectations over time.
been watching ur vids for years , well thought and well put . Just quit my job ( after saving up a decent amount ) and today was my first day of code . keep up the work man
At my Tech Jobs, no one has been more productive doing work from home!! I can see, where some jobs, working from home, will make you more productive but not at the companies I have worked at. Too many distractions!!
I work in a machineshop and the office people (10-20 of them) are all packed in a room. If that wasn't enough there is a glass see through conference room next to them. Literally no privacy. I felt like I was in a Zoo when I walked in to talk to the engineers about a change that needed to be done. Im leaving in 2 weeks so I really didn't care and said " wow its feels like a prison in here".
Open office spaces foster a huge amount of the "Culture of Distrust". I can waste time just as easily at the office as I can at home and feel a lot less guilt because I'm forced to be there. And (before I started full time wfh) I refused to work more at home to "make up" for lack of productivity during the day at the office. Even worse than the open office is the open office with no assigned seating -so you have absolutely zero personal space to even keep your own coffee cup at. Instead you are expected to do some cattle-call boarding process of first come first served. Can anyone actually explain to me why this has ANY benefit to productivity when you can't even sit with your own team or people you work closely with? As far as I can tell it's another way to cut costs and to try to get people to come in extra early to stake out the space they want for the day. Or at least the space they can live with. I actually interviewed with a company that was proud of their highly collaborative environment which seemed to consist of almost picnic tables set up in huge rooms where you didn't even have any elbow room. You would have to go a LOOONG way to pay me enough to endure that for any amount of time.
My office is moving to unassigned open office soon. I'm going to lose my actual office that I've had for 13 years. If I'm not allowed to work from home most days they are going to lose an employee.
Hey Josh, wanna know the real reason those “bosses” want everyone back. Cuz they couldn’t adapt fast enough to properly train their staff for remote work so they chose what was easy for them to control…
Now due to COVID I really miss seeing people at the office. It was really my time to meet new people and socialize. About the work of course it sucks a lot, if I have my instructions clear and everything I need to work , the quieter the place the better . Open spaces are great to chat, talk, socialize , gossip and all, but for working it really sucks
Working from home allows individual choice of open windows etc. I value fresh air and I work from home with windows open. I find many offices give me really bad hay fever type allergies. That is one of the reasons I have always and continue to work for myself. Short contracts ok but I often find work environments make me feel not good if this office has what people term as "sick building syndrome"! More needs to be done to make sure office environments have clean air and filtering of bad air and "sick building syndrome". Especially due to the pandemic etc. I always find someone in the office "feels the cold" easily, so that means others have to suffer even in the summer months when they want the window shut etc.
I can't stand open office spaces... makes it extremely difficult to focus and you have to make sure you are not distracting other people. When two people are "collaborating" in this environment it distracts everyone else. That would not be the case if they were in a separate office. Also my job requires equipment and desk space so I can't lounge around on a couch with a MacBook. Keep posting these videos. You are doing god's work.
Joshua, I hope you read this. At this point, I think you're one of few who really cares about mental health and the collateral financial struggles for many Americans at this moment. Suicide and depression are skyrocket. Companies instead of supporting employees or show empathy, they're just counting employees as just another number. It's a shame that companies should be the ones doing this type of advertisement, promoting remote work, and suggesting employees to take at least a month off. Thanks for trying to persuade people to change their mindset that we're not machines but human beings with emotions and we need time to rest and recover.
I read this in the Deep Work Book by Cal Newport same push back but they balanced it by using hub and spoke style meaning the teachers/engineers have quiet separated rooms for deep work then the collaboration happens at the cafeteria.
In general I hate collaboration. I just feel like it’s less productive when you deal with passive aggressive people or people who can’t understand others POV. Idk man, I have to do an evaluation for an ASD diagnosis and they asked “what next job would you like?” Lmao I just said “this is unrealistic but I want a job where I can work by myself all the time”😂
We were fully remote in my company from March 2020 until July of 2024. Our home office was fully renovated and remodeled. It is now an open concept. It is absolutely miserable. It’s nothing more than a giant maze of desks. There is no privacy. Most of my meetings are still on zoom. Best part of these in house zoom calls is to have someone else from a different department, also on a zoom call, talking loudly so the people you’re meeting with on teams are distracted by the other people. We are hybrid, three days in house two at home. I get more work done on my remote days than in the office three fold. Not to mention my commute sucks. I really enjoy my work, but god damn - people thrived from the personal autonomy.
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![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Send this to your boss and watch them struggle to find a reason why you still have to come in.
Sources -
globalworkplaceanalytics.com/resources/costs-benefits
www.anzam.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf-manager/1687_ANZAM-2014-293.PDF
royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rstb.2017.0239
There's also a good article about remote work in The New Yorker, about Best Buy and "results oriented work environments"
Thanks josh.
Also sexual harassment goes away!
Joshua, just superb!
Going to post this on our interanet for the whole company to watch. For real....
Of course it is. Why do you think the managers get their own closed offices?
Well, since open offices are so great, we should take the door off and even tear down the wall, and make all of them PART of the open office.
@@thecompetentman5384 lol
Pre-Covid, our CTO (and co-founder) sat in the engineering team section of the open office layout right next to me. I’m just a lowly dev. Open office arrangements can work based off culture imho. Personally, I would prefer to come in one day a week on a Friday to do all-hands meeting and that’s it.
@@thecompetentman5384 I have a background in construction, a sawzall with 4 full batteries. Do NOT tempt me! :D
@@dimitrivasilev2905 I'd fucking end myself if the CTO was sitting next to me.
"Open offices" have nothing to do with collaboration, it's about reducing the cost/square foot of employee workspace, eliminating employee privacy, and enabling micro-managing "boomers" to justify their existence by being able to "insert" themselves into ongoing work where they have little/nothing to actually contribute.
Edit: to clarify, the word "boomer" in this context refers to those with a self-centered, top-down, feedback-dismissive mindset, not necessarily belonging to a particular age group.
BINGO
I one time suggested to a boomer boss that they try getting some Udemy courses teaching the basics of the jobs they manage so they will have some idea of what their employees are doing. They were horrified by the suggestion and eventually said that they can't do that.
I saw an office floorplan of my friend's workplace. It just screams micromanagement. Rows of computers without cubicles facing away from the boss's glass office. He could just stand up and observe the activity of every employee.
@@eitkoml Lol
@@eitkoml Yeah would love to see those people learn the basics of programming or something like that
Finally a Joshua Fluke video me and my boss can watch together.
Fluke and chill 😜
great for a spontaneous, synergistic, collaboration event.
😂😂 welcome
Watch it together in an open office.
Good luck!
The open office layout is so good for productivity and collaboration that the CEO has their own personal office walled off from the open layout so that they can get work done and meets with other people in meeting rooms walled off from the open layout so that they can get some productive collaboration done.
well, i don't wanna defend them, however, i think that's kind of needed for security reasons, ie they know and talk about sensitive business-related stuff. then again, they could work from home if their environment complies with security directives
@@susrev88 so you're saying they're the only people who need security? seriously?
@@nopelandfill i think you don't understand. there are several levels of security, including information.
My old company was exactly like this everyone everyone worked in the open office and the CEO and the sales director worked in a closed office.
Because I and my team worked with clients in the phone trying to solve costumer problems than they IT team could not solve was so fun to try to concentrate and put a huge network back online while trying to ignore other technician trying to solve a database problem from another customer while listening to the girl from sales trying to pitch a new support contract to a new costumer.
It was so great. And fun fact if someone made a sale they would ring a bell and made everyone applaud.
@@susrev88 we need the same level of security, DAFUQ?? we also have some sensitive information that we don't want others to hear or know about.
Open spaces have been shat on in studies since their inception. Reduced productivity, increased exhaustion, now this. Whoever invented them has made a great grift, hats off.
Last thing I want to see when I'm programming is other peoples faces. Put me in a room and leave me alone. Thank you.
or people talking, if someones talking in a room of programmers then no-ones working at full capacity.
Amen
Oh but your being anti social, you not caring about other’s feelings, how dare you! Haha
@@machinestats459 collaboration & innovation & globalisation & diversification and whatever x-ation is more important
@@machinestats459 stereotype of programmers being antisocial is popular however professionals are not, because you can’t be
Never have I had some kind of mental breakthrough talking to somebody else on an hour long meeting. "Collaboration" (in the format that corporations love to push) kills creativity and innovation. Most of the great technological breakthroughs throughout history came at the hands of introverts who spent their time deep in thought, and then after making a brilliant discovery, came back and shared those thoughts with everybody else.
If Edison worked in an open office environment we'd still be living in the dark.
Collaboration and innovation happen planned brainstorming sessions not in passing in the hallway
Exactly, most innovation is the result of one brilliants person's ideas not some collaboration BS. The majority of these work meetings are a total waste of time where absolutely nothing gets accomplished and like you rightly pointed out are counter productive to those that need peace and quiet to think clearly, I personally am far more productive when working alone in a quiet room than in a room full of distracting noises.
Even Alexander Graham Bell didn’t work in an open office space, he had to call Watson on his new invention to summon him to his office.
Newton made his breakthrough on gravity while he was in quarantine due to the plague.
And it really works. Got stuck on some problem? Go for a nice walk, you'll probably have at least one decent new solution by the end. Our thoughts are steered partially by the environment, if we sit in the same office all day every day with the same people there's no variation in ideas as well.
imma quote you on that Edison bit, Kyle. Actually I'm stealing it.
Always felt like something was wrong with me because I found myself solving complex problems WAY faster at home rather than at the open office with a thousand distractions. When the work requires a high degree of concentration, intellect and problem solving, it can feel like trying to concentrate in the middle of a construction site. I know this might upset some people but I’m so thankful for the pandemic knowing that it kickstarted the remote work renaissance.
It's kind of a mixed blessings, mate.
Pandemic did terrible things, but not without some silver linings, i guess.
My husband has been working from home for the last three years. He's never been happier and more engaged. Loves the job and saves a ton of time in commute. When he needs help, he chats with his supervisor or just calls them and they share the screen. The second bedroom in our apartment is his office now and has all the privacy and quiet he wants. Can't think why a company would be against saving themselves having to rent office space, pay for electricity, water and other utilities, office supplies, cleaning, etc. All they gave him was the workstation and they pay for a dedicated internet line, that't it. My husband got his own desk and chair. When the pandemic hit, his company did not suffer even a bit. The worst that can happen is the internet connection going down, which has only happened a handful of times since he started this job. Old people who are bosses are just stuck in their old ways.
It's not always "old" people, although that's an arbitrary term. I am 60 and love my hybrid work schedule (I work from home 2 days a week). However, my 25 years younger boss, hates WFH and tells us he would cancel it if he could, but he has no basis for doing so. While there is a front facing aspect to some of what I do, about 75% of my time is spent planning on the phone and in front of a computer screen. I am actually more efficient when I WFH. Of course, even if our WFH policy was revoked, he'd continue to quietly "WFH" himself most Mondays and Fridays like he always has way before COVID was a thing.
Its because hedge funds spent billions of dollars on corporate real estate. They need people to be working in those buildings. Since less people are working in those buildings. Hedge funds are now purchasing private homes to rent out.
Because a lot of business who rent buildings or portions of buildings are locked into 5-10 Year leases
@@thegmack1019 which isn't an argument since that cost was agreed upfront rather you use it or not. Its the same. At leash WFH saves on other utility and supply bills
@@thegmack1019 the businesses investment in the property has nothing to do with the employees. If you are renting office space cancel the lease, you might pay a cancellation fee but you will end up saving way more in the long run. Plus your employees will have better output working from home so its a win for everyone.
No this isnt about the office space itself, there are more political reason that youre not being told about. Maybe the owner of the company wants to get away from his wife and kids, maybe the middle manager has a thing for the young receptionist, maybe the HR lady cant listen in 9n conversations...
YOU will never be told the real reason why they want you to go back to the office.
The good news: employees know its bullshit. That's the most important part.
well its ok when you want to see someone eye to eye ,you dont have to slam quadrizillion doors on the way to her or him :D:D:D:D
Open offices were only created for ONE reason, lowered costs and able to be watched, it has NOTHING to do with collaborating with others, it's actually MORE annoying and works against a good working environments and increases anxiety no less....
That sounds like two reasons. Derp.
My entire company is “remote first”. We have been killing our sales numbers every single year. Coworkers are incredibly helpful and supportive. Nobody micromanages, mangers are understanding when you need to take days off and encourage you to take a break whenever and however long you want. It is literally the greatest thing ever. I can work from wherever and the corporate environment is balanced with my life. Plus, if my company opens up in other countries, I can literally work from wherever in the world. Remote work is the best fucking thing in the world.
Sounds like Hormel
That guy has some giant man parts showing one of your videos to his boss.
Indeed I do!
You are doing God's work Josh. These companies are stuck in the 1950s, it's time to modernize these boomers who still use fax machines and carrier pigeons and don't understand email and zoom meetings
Gotta be grateful that boomers are almost extinct, and the ones that still alive can't even remember their name 🤑
Only wish they didn’t understand zoom meetings 🤮
Great comment although I think you are wrong about being stuck in the 1950s. The modern open office is different than the open offices in the past and its got nothing to do with productivity but all to do with control
hahaha
Pretty much take the idea of mass production and use it everywhere.
“Elevate their work results instead of their presence” this is why so many managers fight against WFH. They rose to power with extroversion tendencies. Introverts excel at home and for these managers that could mean a power shift- since they have less work result and all the “presence”
As an employer, I don't care if my collegues work in the office, at home, in a submarine or in space.
Get the job done and be the biggest contributor to the companies success and don't be a leech or lazy.
Need a break? Take it.
Need a week long vacation? Take it.
Want to spend extra time with family? Take it.
Just get the job done.
Nothing is a problem. Doing nothing is a problem.
"Any time we make a sale, a gong goes off and we all cheer."
Oh, fuck off. Worked as a telemarketer for a bit. We had a gong too. Just one of the many utterly shit features in the worst job I've ever had.
For context on "worst job", the job I had after that was planting trees in the middle of winter.
We had a gong too for anytime someone booked a meeting…. a fucking meeting…. Not even a sell.
People in other departments absolutely hated us.
I had a manager tell a friend of mine that it is not about productivity but about presence. Many of these managers are stuck in that place that "if I can't see you then you are not working". Here is the goofy thing with my friend, this person's office was in another building. So it is even weirder. I just need you to sit in your office to make me feel like you are doing something here. It is just a fear that people working remotely are just being lazy or trying to get out of work. Boomer mentality I guess.
Boomers gonna Boom!
@@thecompetentman5384 Train goes Boom!
Every other generation let go of control and stepped back much earlier in life than the boomers have.
@@thecompetentman5384 boomers are going instinct soon
@@adamwalker2377 every other generation was followed by competent people
Absolutely disgusting to put people in an open office plan. Any "corporate" means of improving productivity always means less autonomy, control and money for workers. We live in a clown world
🤡 🌎
It also usually means less productivity
@@PhycoKrusk Yeah. As someone with ADHD, I couldn't accept a job with an open floor plan, and expect to keep it
This just goes to show how important abuse is to some people. With all of the money that companies would save having employees WFH, they still want people in the office to abuse. When you're at work, you tend to talk more: "Me and my wife just had our first baby." Now the company knows you really need the job. They can relocate you for a longer commute without more pay, etc and you'll take more crap from them because you can't afford to be out of work. Corporate is the epitome of toxic.
That's why you need to train yourself to only talk about your pets when at work. Never give the enemy useful intel!
@@curiouspenguin6887 lolololol you're 100% right. But all it takes is a baby seat in the back seat of your car, and the rest is history.
Or the lady in Payroll informs your boss that you claimed a new dependent.
Or the nursery calls your job with an emergency cause they couldn't get you on your cell. There's so many ways to inadvertently tell a narcissistic boss you entirely depend on the job.
mate if you think corporate is the epitome of toxic you should see my ex girlfriend, that girl is toxic with two t's
My boss punishes me now this way. I am allowed to stay home if I don't have a certain requrement. But if he feels like punishing me he makes that requirement.
I'm in management and I promise you MOST managers do think this way.
It makes me sick. I got into management because I wanted to solve problems, but after 9+yrs in management Im confident management creates 90% of the problems themselves. Usually because they fail to understand ppl. They understand the manipulation techniques, but they don't really understand the person itself. There is an attitude of "i own you" in management. And upper upper management is completely clueless. They mean well I think, but they miss the ball most the time. Like corporate expecting managers to do the same labor of their employees to fool employees into thinking "this is great, managers get us",.....but that's not what happens.
Managers don't get paid by the hour and basically become indentured servants for no reason. Employees may like the temporary "revenge" but it doesn't solve the root cause of their anger. Low pay and bad work life balance.
Management making management into cheap worker bees doesn't solve that issue.
The willingness to sacrifice some profit in order to offer better pay and worklife balance is what is required.
My boss had a "talk" with me today about leaving 30 mins earlier than I'm supposed to, even though I work during lunch(which according to them was fine prior to today), I have never missed deadlines, have done all my work diligently, get paid way less than I should be because the workload is a lot, fucking getting tired of this corporate bs almost one year into working after graduation
lol bro you just started working and you're crying already? Strap yourself in.
@@theastuteangler one year can make a huge difference lol, I generally started giving less shits after one year and it's been 2 years now and still have the same job, although starting a new one in a couple of weeks
A workspace that's an "open pit." Wow...I can't think of a more appropriate word for such a workplace than a PIT!
I work in the business end of healthcare for one of the largest healthcare companies in the USA. Our department has been remote for over 9 years. We have had 2 people leave us...one due to health issues and the other retired. Other than that, no turn over. We have productivity and quality standards our team must meet...we always exceed them. As a result, my company started sending as much of their workers home as possible even before the pandemic. They saw the results of their remote departments and said, "Hey it works!" Win/Win situation.
Company: Why should we hire you ?
Me: open, fun , works in office .
Company: any other qualifications?
Me: no
Your hired !
Get it on, bang a gong! - Power Station
CEO's mind:
* watches the entire video *
* makes absolutely ret**red excuse on why that wouldn't work *
* back to square 1 *
Citi's opening is slow, and i haven't submitted to go back to the office. None of my team members did.
Not even the managers who proclaimed to "love working in the office and foster 'collaboration'' ". what a bunch of poppycock.
Middle management are no longer needed other than being nosy and contradicting themselves, they don't even know that they're becoming obsolete lol.
Good. Fire them and use the freed up cash to hire people that actually make the stuff. I know that it’s a huge problem in tech, having the most talented developers just see their job title inflate, while in the end, they’re reporting to someone else. No one likes being the bottom of the subordination food chain, so talented people try to pigeon hole themselves into management. That needs to go away. We need the people who are best at building the stuff to actually do so.
I have an idea. For a good Office Collab. Everyone said how much they make. It would be hilarious !
how to get a raise ....... go to your boss and tell him, if he does not give you a raise, you would tell everyone that you got raise :D
@@vladimirkliman7185 That sum GZA shiz there.
Great idea for a team building event
@@vladimirkliman7185 How to get a promotion - Go to your boss and tell him that you are now co-boss. When he refuses, place his hand on your geniiitalia and take a photo with your phone (works best for women, and I assume the boss is a guy because why would you work for a woman boss, unless you enjoy torturing yourself). Then, go to HR and tell them that you are in an office relationship. When they ask who, say the boss, and show them the picture for proof. Then, go back to your boss and say, "Don't worry, I told HR about.... Us". Ignore the confused look on his face and immediately start ordering people to do things. Congratulations, you are now co-boss. Works 100 percent of the time, 30 percent of the time.
@@rickb06 Preach Man. We do the work we should get a fair share. How would feel if everyone makes Pizzas and one guy and take like 10 Pizzas and Everyone else have to share one?
aaaa lot of energy (gas, electricity) is consumed just to comute to work. Polution would be reduce, less traffic jams with adopting remote work.
A lot of time wasted too. Time I could be spending with my family instead of time on the road getting even more beat up and exhausted.
That Guy work from home is the kind of recalibration that society could really use. Last 60 years of declining marriage rates, two income households becoming the norm (and necessary in many metro areas), and other things, have really devalued family. Imagine now if one or both parents can work from home? No more daycare needed because a parent is always home to take care of the kid. We can pull responsibility away from the state and towards the family when it comes to raising kids. I know that my life has improved quite a bit thanks to working from home
Drink everytime they say collaboration 😂😅
😆
You'd be drunk in 30 seconds.
Be sure to call an ambulance first.
@@rachelminneapolis I love you
@@donkeyhobo34 I love you more
I've never needed to "collaborate" on anything in an office environment. In the event I actually need to ask my management a question, I can just as easily do so via Webex, Skype, or similar applications. There is ostensibly no reason to require people who work in networking to come to a physical office to do their work.
I've been forced to show up to the office, and within the first hour I had been interrupted 5 times with stupid questions that could've been IM'd/emailed and people that just wanted to socialize. I watched my own boss be interrupted constantly while he was trying to tell me something lol. It's so stupid being surrounded by people constantly, not to mention I finished my work early and just had to sit there, staring off into space and clicking around an excel spreadsheet to look busy. At home at least I could read a book in front of the computer waiting for an email.
MBA griftoids have to justify their high salaries, though.
If the video wasn’t enough, the like to dislike ratio speaks for itself.
100:1 is already amazing, but this is almost 100% upvotes. Yeah, it's pretty clear the only people being against homeoffice are real estate boomers and incompetent managers. Everyone else sees a win-win scenario where the company saves tons of money in reduced office spaces and everything that comes with it (furniture, electricity, rent, ...) and workers save at least hundreds of hours each year of reduced time stuck in traffic and other shit to deal with.
you are doing gods work my son....I am retired now, working in my offshore digs, at age 80...it was absolutely wonderful and life saving to escape the office blow-hards, bellowing on their phones and chewing ice. etc.... you will change many more lives as you keep up this fine work.
Recently during office party my boss asked me (after two glasses of wine) if I am looking forward to go back to the office. I told him, no. We all work (all people even people on higher / management positions) in open space. I told him, I find it disruptive and I have my noise cancelling headphones on anyway at all times. It appears he not only shares my views but also we bonded over same brand of noise cancelling headphones to avoid human interaction in the office and focus on work ;)
7:44 tapping on my shoulders is hands down the worst thing to happen while I'm mentally in my code 12 steps deep.
Love that you mentioned the ADA compliance component too. As someone with Autism and ADHD, the open office space is literally my hell. I am lucky enough to have an office space where I can close the door and close blinds. I am a great collaborative worker but the distraction and sensory overload of people constantly having access to me does not work. I also can sit in really weird ways that help me but would be strange in an open office I'm sure. I would be way less productive in an open office layout. I also get Monday as a work from home day and it's really nice to work as I want during the day & I'm often more productive than when I'm in the office. For a lot of people with my kind of disabilities, I've heard that they've had to disclose their condition to get accommodations for a silent room etc, which isn't great when a lot of people have a lot of stereotypes and biases against people with ADHD/Autism. It's an example of how WFH and closed offices help people without disabilities but can also help with overall accessibility.
The only open floor concept that I want is at my house.
Not if you usually cook more than a salad.
It's just an aesthetic.
Oh fantastic when can we all come over and collaborate with you?
Trust me you don’t. One thing you will appreciate later in life is noise cancellation within your house and closed spaces around the kitchen to block cooking smells from moving around
If your family is toxic then it will be great to go to the office
This reminds me a lot of what I just saw in Iceland: companies changed the work week from 5 8 hour days to 4 9 hour days. They actually found more productivity. To which I’d say: of course. The overhead of commuting makes people slow at the beginning and end of the day. Even WFH, it takes me a bit to fire up.
Also, if you’re an employee at a company, it’s almost certain that you’re not working straight 40. You’re goofing off. You’re watching TH-cam. You’re listening to music, or doing personal stuff, or whatever. So now they’ve eliminated goof off time.
They are treating adults like children. I know someone who has lockers at his office.
...like people that work at coal mines.
We just had some installed... that can't lock. Can't have privacy. Can afford all.this shit office furniture but can't make me full time.
we have lockers at office lool
I can't see how having lockers would be a bad thing? Its a safe place to put your things, especially good if you need to store a change of clothes at work (like if you cycle to work or go to the gym immediately before/after).
Here's something no one has brought up yet...it is entirely possible to micromanage people working remotely. The last job I had was like this...the entire company is remote and every employee had a personal Slack channel and had to update it with what they were doing all day long. Later the CEO read through all of them! He came down hard on people who didn't put in enough detail because "he didn't know what they were doing". Needless to say, turnover is high.
Oh I'm sure it happens, a lot actually. However, I would rather be micromanaged from home than in an office.
Honestly, they are more likely to do it when working remotely, and from what you said it seems like it would be worse at home than in the office. Not to mention when you working remotely people have a problem with enforcing work and life balance. Simply because the lines get blurred. Not to mention there are just some jobs that can't be done at home or would require a large amount of trust to be done at home. Plus, security weakens at home. Among many other things. Everything has its Pros and Cons.
Yes we were required to put in a listing of what we did, they have given up on that now.
The only reason the bosses are against working from home is they want control... nothing else.
"Private spaces should be the default state."
Crazy that this whole concept is even in question, but you bringing awareness to these backwards moving companies is one of the greatest things ever.
When I worked in an open office we talked to each other all the time, it's how I made friends with my coworkers. It didn't mean we collaborated more though. Sometimes someone would ask how to solve a programming problem, but it didn't mean we sat next to each other to figure it out. We also all wore headphones about half the day and would chat online with each other even if we were 15 feet apart, it's just how we work sometimes.
At all of my office jobs, all in open offices, we where not allowed to wear headphones. Made no sense.
Your videos have instilled in me an uncanny confidence in dealing with employers and my job. Well done Joshua Fluke, your voice is needed in these times
Agreed! It's a BIG LIE that's going on for too long. Thanks for bringing that up. I've been working from home for 2 years and I feel I got more things done, both for work and family
I despise offices like this. I went to work for a small start up that looked like these offices in the video. Flat screen TVs everywhere, couches, 3 lounge rooms, kitchen filled with food, etc. I thought it was a nice concept at first. Well....not so fast! I quickly learned that companies create offices like this so you won’t go home as early! Being an introvert, this set up is a disaster. There’s a lot of truth to what you’re saying in this video.
I just graduated in network engineering. I'm applying for work but honestly.. All these jobs just feel like beeing member in a cult or some shit. I don't like it at all and I'm considering finding something else to do.
Join an actual cult, it pays better.
Wtf is network engineering
@@carinadominguez22 they are the engineers who design, mantain and protect networks. We are in 21st century you should know the basics at least
@@franz3810 Are they in more need than say software engineers?
@@franz3810 By network engineer do you mean something as Cisco path?
I've never heard it as career.
From CCNA to network architect.
Yeah I don’t mind being part of a team but when it comes down to it, I want to be left alone and just be able to grind my work out alone. I would hate having other people right next to me, especially being able to see them, a simple barrier would help me focus more, it’s just less input.
I must admit, I’ve worked in sales in a call center, open floor, and I personally hated the sale celebrations. I preferred celebrating where we won’t have to be disturbing people on calls.
I remember back then when the teacher hovers at the students one by one when you are doing school work, it's unnerving and makes you lose focus, even if you know the project well. I know I'm not the only one who feels like this on my school days, but why do they think that it causes productivity when it is applied on the workforce. Even group activities in one classroom is distracting as well.
The collaboration they mean is when you get fired you know who else is being fired with you
the main benefit of open plan offices is that you can cram more people into less space.
That's how it's marketed to companies, and that's why companies do it.
Been going on in Europe for decades, and they're finally starting to revert on it somewhat.
Not wanting your people working from home is mainly because managers (especially middle managers) think that their underlings aren't going to work when they're not constantly having said managers literally look over their shoulders.
That's changed a bit with the forced working from home due to covid, but as requirements to do so are being lifted, more and more managers are immediately banning remote working again, they've learned nothing. And they're using the "remote working is less productive, so everyone must be in the office" argument, that's been largely proven groundless over the last year and a half.
My husband's international company has had him work from home for the last 4 years. His coworkers are in Dallas, Minnesota, London, Scotland, just to name a few. They all get their job done from home. It saves our family 3 hours a day commute & $250/month commuting costs. At 5:30 he leaves his office and joins the family for diner. Previously he would get home between 7:30 - 8:30 unless there was a traffic or weather delay and he could get home as late as 10 pm. Occasionally he has gone to the office and every time has come home saying he didn't need to go. All the people he was dealing with were on-line. Working from home doesn't work for all people or all positions, but smart companies know this is the direction business is headed and are embracing it.
Wow! Loved it. Can't argue with hard data. You're doing good work, Josh!
You want work to feel like home yet you won't let them work from home.
“Open spaces” but not OPEN BUDGETS and POCKETS for employees. 😜🤣😂😂😂
I was a "Debbie Downer" and "not a team player" when I said I hated the "Agile space." People literally sit at computers with headphones on / earbuds in and send emails and IM's to someone sitting less than 5 feet away. IT.DOES.NOT.HELP.ANYTHING. And with COVID, turns out it was a really stupid idea after all.
@Joshua the problem is that the employers do not trust their employees. They think that by letting employees wfh they (employees) can start their own venture.
Good, they should lmao
I work in the open office environment, it is noisy, lot of distraction, and people constantly check out other people computers. We had a several collaboration training before the pandemic, it is somewhat helpful and time consuming.
I literally have to wear headphones all day with as much junk I can find on Pandora just so I can focus and not hear all the office chatter
Just showed it to my boss and got fired for not being a team player, not drinking the company koolaid, and because fomenting the idea of working from home may have him working from home thus he would not be able to "look" at the pretty chicks.
Office space is terrible. I find myself going to the toilet just to get privacy! You’ve opened my eyes to this sad reality.
You should do more of these “fluke & chill” with your boss series. (Courtesy - another TH-cam comment)
Thanks, Josh! 🙏🏾
You know what I like more than privacy? KNAWLADG- I mean - CORRABURASHUN
Why did I laugh out loud at this
Its actually kinda sad but I miss cubicles a lot
Not sad. Cubicles are legit
It’s not fun if teams of people had lunch then they are letting off storm clouds of gas in their open office.
I miss mine, it was big and sincr I work in fraud research for a bank, I need the extra privacy. Unfortunately, nobody cares
Cubicles are fucked. They give you the idea that you have your own space, while you're still in a noisy office. Separate rooms are much better. I had to make quite the adjustment to the American cubicle standard when I moved from Europe. But in Europe they skipped the whole cubicle step at one company I worked for. From (shared) offices in actual rooms with floor to ceiling walls, doors and windows to the outside to the "open office" horrible noise zoo.
You are a godsend. I hope this helps a lot of people who are struggling with this.
As an introvert I can tell you if you want to drop my productivity to 0% put me in an open office plan. It's not that I have anything to hide, I simply freeze up in that type of environment. I have worked very hard to achieve my dream office location. I am a happy DBA that works in a private office, in a basement, behind a locked door. :-) If I can't work from home, this is the next best thing.
I read and respond to e-mail for a living. Been that way for 16 years now. Been working from home since March 2020 and productivity office wide substantially increased. Management's assessment and report. Not mine. So what did management just announce yesterday based on this evidence? They decided to renew their rental contract to continue leasing their office space and bring everyone back to physically sit in a chair so we can continue e-mailing each other within the office culture. I am seriously stupefied and thinking of taking an early retirement.
same, I mostly email files to china, a different time zone and yet they want us in office so they can throw parties and have speeches.
@@cetriyasArtnComicsChannel This is seriously an introvert vs extrovert issue. There is absolutely no reason for either you or me to physically drive in to an office any more. The pandemic has proven this once and for all. It is especially egregious for folks like me who live in a cold northern climate and have to deal with snow and ice 6 months out of the year. This is just mind blowingly ignorant extrovert dictatorial nonsense at its finest. Trust falls everyone! Sis boom rah! Yay!
When I work in my open office I put headphones on to get rid of the noise and I find it unbelievably distracting seeing people move around. So in essence I shrink the space to the size of my head anyway. Working from home is for me. I do miss the social aspect, but everything else is better. Collab is fine, that is what MS Teams is for. Innovation comes from within, not just by smashing people together in a claustrophobic space. If you need to meet with someone, you do so. No problem.
Josh! You had me at the SNAP! Lol and less automobile fatalities!
Side note: my sister in law works for the government patent office, and has mostly worked remote for years! Thus the reason why the dogs have separation anxiety every time she drives to pick up her spouse who doesn’t work from home.
At my department in my company, we have a brainstorming meeting through zoom at the start of every design. We reach out through slack when we have questions or if we want to bounce other ideas with fellow employees on Slack. Then you go through multiple design reviews and documentation reviews. There is plenty of collaboration imbedded into the design process.
Great video, great arguments!❤
There are too many start up wannabes out there who all look the same and act the same and are battling to become the next "Google" which these days in impossible, no wonder most of them fail.
I take frequent bathroom breaks when I'm working and I can say with confidence my productivity is a lot higher at home where my bathroom is only 10 feet away from me as opposed to when I was working in a cubicle farm and would have to take minutes just to get to the bathroom!
Used to work for a tech company that also rang a gong after every sale. It brought my morale down and made me dread every sale (and I never once missed my number at that job and am still in sale). I couldn’t stand the fact they never let me work remote and left before a year despite my success. I now work remote and absolutely love it.
“Open pit” is definitely a phrase with no negative connotations in the history of workers’ rights! A+ nomenclature, That Guy!
I was waiting for something like this. A Great presentation to give onto officials who wont listen
I worked for CBRE 2015 to 2017. They were so proud of their open office. It's super uncomfortable and energy draining because everyone on the floor can see everyone all the time.
@@genxx2724 that's interesting and probably, true. But - I only worked for CBRE for 25 months and it did not seem to attract overtly narcissistic types. I only encountered 2 or 3; far less than other places I've experienced in my work history. I once worked below 2 narcissists - quite the team and did quite the number on my psyche. It was because of those two, that I sometime later started learning about narcissists and their behaviors and tactics.
I never have the guts to share your videos to my management, but I always hope they get popular enough that they'll stumble across them anyway. Or that they'll be influential enough in the developer communities that it will slowly change expectations over time.
Liked the point you mentioned in 7.33, where workers feel peer pressure in open office. and work long hr
been watching ur vids for years , well thought and well put .
Just quit my job ( after saving up a decent amount ) and today was my first day of code .
keep up the work man
At my Tech Jobs, no one has been more productive doing work from home!! I can see, where some jobs, working from home, will make you more productive but not at the companies I have worked at. Too many distractions!!
At Google, we have open office spaces. Their are pros and cons of working from home.
I work in a machineshop and the office people (10-20 of them) are all packed in a room. If that wasn't enough there is a glass see through conference room next to them. Literally no privacy. I felt like I was in a Zoo when I walked in to talk to the engineers about a change that needed to be done. Im leaving in 2 weeks so I really didn't care and said " wow its feels like a prison in here".
This also helps reduce and prevents workplace harassment.
Open office spaces foster a huge amount of the "Culture of Distrust". I can waste time just as easily at the office as I can at home and feel a lot less guilt because I'm forced to be there. And (before I started full time wfh) I refused to work more at home to "make up" for lack of productivity during the day at the office.
Even worse than the open office is the open office with no assigned seating -so you have absolutely zero personal space to even keep your own coffee cup at. Instead you are expected to do some cattle-call boarding process of first come first served. Can anyone actually explain to me why this has ANY benefit to productivity when you can't even sit with your own team or people you work closely with? As far as I can tell it's another way to cut costs and to try to get people to come in extra early to stake out the space they want for the day. Or at least the space they can live with.
I actually interviewed with a company that was proud of their highly collaborative environment which seemed to consist of almost picnic tables set up in huge rooms where you didn't even have any elbow room. You would have to go a LOOONG way to pay me enough to endure that for any amount of time.
My office is moving to unassigned open office soon. I'm going to lose my actual office that I've had for 13 years.
If I'm not allowed to work from home most days they are going to lose an employee.
The moment Joshua took on that shirt and tie I knew this is serious.
Hey Josh, wanna know the real reason those “bosses” want everyone back. Cuz they couldn’t adapt fast enough to properly train their staff for remote work so they chose what was easy for them to control…
Now due to COVID I really miss seeing people at the office. It was really my time to meet new people and socialize. About the work of course it sucks a lot, if I have my instructions clear and everything I need to work , the quieter the place the better . Open spaces are great to chat, talk, socialize , gossip and all, but for working it really sucks
Josh, making videos to show our bosses is actually a great idea, please do more
Well this week I got offers for two work from home jobs this week so I’ll be leaving this office contract pretty soon lol. So excited!
I've yet to collaborate with anyone on anything in our open office space. Everything is done through email and conference calls.
I’m glad you’re doing this because we have a meeting next week about being able to work from home the majority of the time. Right on time!
At a company I used to work at, the employees had an open office, but the CEO had a private office with walls and doors. Ironic.
Working from home allows individual choice of open windows etc. I value fresh air and I work from home with windows open. I find many offices give me really bad hay fever type allergies. That is one of the reasons I have always and continue to work for myself. Short contracts ok but I often find work environments make me feel not good if this office has what people term as "sick building syndrome"! More needs to be done to make sure office environments have clean air and filtering of bad air and "sick building syndrome". Especially due to the pandemic etc. I always find someone in the office "feels the cold" easily, so that means others have to suffer even in the summer months when they want the window shut etc.
p.s I'm in the UK so air conditioning often doesnt exist or work properly.
I can't stand open office spaces... makes it extremely difficult to focus and you have to make sure you are not distracting other people. When two people are "collaborating" in this environment it distracts everyone else. That would not be the case if they were in a separate office. Also my job requires equipment and desk space so I can't lounge around on a couch with a MacBook.
Keep posting these videos. You are doing god's work.
AWESOME pivot. Love the tongue in cheek, keeping it real. You are really fueling a major movement in the history of work in America.
Open offices are a cancer. They grow fast but will eventually kill their host.
Joshua, I hope you read this. At this point, I think you're one of few who really cares about mental health and the collateral financial struggles for many Americans at this moment. Suicide and depression are skyrocket. Companies instead of supporting employees or show empathy, they're just counting employees as just another number. It's a shame that companies should be the ones doing this type of advertisement, promoting remote work, and suggesting employees to take at least a month off. Thanks for trying to persuade people to change their mindset that we're not machines but human beings with emotions and we need time to rest and recover.
I read this in the Deep Work Book by Cal Newport same push back but they balanced it by using hub and spoke style meaning the teachers/engineers have quiet separated rooms for deep work then the collaboration happens at the cafeteria.
In general I hate collaboration. I just feel like it’s less productive when you deal with passive aggressive people or people who can’t understand others POV. Idk man, I have to do an evaluation for an ASD diagnosis and they asked “what next job would you like?” Lmao I just said “this is unrealistic but I want a job where I can work by myself all the time”😂
We were fully remote in my company from March 2020 until July of 2024. Our home office was fully renovated and remodeled. It is now an open concept. It is absolutely miserable. It’s nothing more than a giant maze of desks. There is no privacy. Most of my meetings are still on zoom. Best part of these in house zoom calls is to have someone else from a different department, also on a zoom call, talking loudly so the people you’re meeting with on teams are distracted by the other people. We are hybrid, three days in house two at home. I get more work done on my remote days than in the office three fold. Not to mention my commute sucks. I really enjoy my work, but god damn - people thrived from the personal autonomy.