I recently worked at MBDA on missile seekers. As you said, on long-range missiles, active radar is only used during terminal guidance, but it's very hard to fool with chaff because it uses chirp Doppler radar: the chaff slows down quite quickly on ejection, and the seeker can identify the fast-moving bandit amongst the slow-moving cloud of chaff. And the prox fuse does the rest.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Thank you, GS. I miss that job, but alas there were cutbacks after one of the seeker projects on which I was working finished early. I was only there a couple of years, but I learnt a lot about the brains of the missile in that time. Fascinating job. I still work in defence (I was able to carry over my security clearance from MBDA, so it made that aspect a lot quicker), but not on nearly as complex a product, though still air-related. At the age of 57, I have spent a total of 20 years working in aerospace and defence, and it is vital and interesting work.
You may have confused "all aspect" with "off boresight". All Aspect - The target may be in any orientation... a selling point of later generation IR missiles because you no longer need a rear aspect (ie looking up the tailpipe) for a lock. Off Boresight - You can acquire the target that is not in front of your aircraft. Best known is the AIM9X which with all aspect and high off boresight capabilities you can basically look nearly over your shoulder and lock and fire the missile.
Actually old R-73 is known for that - 60 degrees off boresight, 45 degrees for export versions. Sidewinder just got that option recently with X version with better angles.
@@TheGranicd R-73 is the example for that as it was first to offer off-bore launch that is higher than the seeker gimbal. The first one was 45 degree gimbal limit and upgraded was 60-70 degree. But if you used a HMS cueing then you get extra 15-20 degree for cueing. But benefit of the R-73M is that you could shoot it backwards after merge of you get seeker to lock on target as it calculates angle and goes after it when launched. You don't need a lock, just to tell it "look a target at that area and go for it". But danger is that you might shoot a friend as then seeker ain't locked to enemy and it goes first thing it see. Combine that with "Cobra" maneuverability and you can point your missile at any direction in air and launch multiple missiles at multiple adversities rapidly.
As someone who self identifies as stupid, I am very triggered at your saying the missile "goes stupid". Just because it gets confused easily doesn't mean it shouldn't be applauded for the effort. Unsubscribe.
I am new to all of this. I have been learning basics with VTOL but once my HOTAS comes in I’m switching to DCS. That being said it’s hard to get good info about a lot of this stuff. I have to say I love your videos but especially this one. I LOVE all the “extra info” you give. My favorite video yet that explains this stuff!
A couple of observations. (1) AIM-54 was actually designed for the F-111B. (2) Not all NATO countries now use the AIM 9. The UK uses AIM-132 ASRAAM, some European countries use IRS-T, some east European NATO countries still use Russian weapons and finally France uses the Matra Magic II.
@@thekenjistream8683 you would be correct. The Mirage 2000 is capable of using the radar guided Mica and IR Mica versions. I do think the Magic II is still used, but I don't know for sure.
@@juliomaldonado4028 MICA-IR is for the Mirage2000-5 and rafale, but all these planes can carry the magic missile. * MAGIC missiles family is no more produced and will be retired for 2020. And a little precision, all planes that can carry the Sidewinder missile can carry the magic, and vice-versa.
@@juliomaldonado4028 Magic II was able of being used by Mirage F1, Super Etendard and Mirage 2000... while earlier versions of Rafale were capable of using it, it i think by that time it was replaced for good, since the proximity fuse give a lot of troubles blowing the missile too far away. In fact Magic 1 fuse was much more reliable
Another aspect that is very very important is that semi-active missiles (Fox 1) are much cheaper to produce than active radar missiles (Fox 3) but they are more tactically limited since they are by no means fire&forget, that means for air combat the chance your plane might be forced to move from his position unlocking the target, or a much worse case-scenario... in ground/naval defenses at last depends on how many planes are attacking a certain ship/defended area, that might produce a collapse on FCS (a huge problem with 70 to 90's technology aboard ships across the world). But back in the planes, if Fox 1, 2 and 3 are avaiable, It is safe to say that i'd pick a Fox 3 any day, since cannon could somehow "replace" the Fox 2 and Fox 1 its just a cheaper lesser version of the Fox 3
Excellent channel GS, coming from an old Retired Nimitz sailor circa 1980, GONZO Station, Indian Ocean, during the Iranian Hostage Crisis. I have been a fan of Flight Sims for years and feeling a bit intimidated by these incredible "Study" aircraft ie. Hornet, TomCat and Mirage (my faves). I have DCS, had it for several years, LOCKON before that. I currently have the A10 (Study level version), with TM Warthog HOTAS. I just need to get focused and do some reading. Anyway I really enjoy your videos and you're a great teacher to boot. Good stuff and as always "FLY NAVY"..
its an honor to hear from guys at your level that they enjoy the channel. Thanks very much for that kind feedback. I hope you manage to get that focus you're after we can always use other good guys in the skies of DCS. hope to see you around brother
Very good video, thankyou! 1) I just wanted to mention that instead of the AIM-120 being designed as a replacement for the AIM-54 Phoenix, I think that the AIM-120 was developed more likely as a replacement for the AIM-9 Sparrow. Development of the AIM-120 AMRAAM began in the late 70's and by the time that Desert Storm in 1991 came about the missile still wasn't in use operationally. Apparently there were 200 brand new AIM-120 AMRAAMs "in theater" for the 1st Gulf War, but their use in combat is either classified, or never occurred. 2) the main reason why the AIM-54 Phoenix was so large, was so that it could bring down large Soviet bombers down with a single missile. the bombers in question were the Tu-16 Badger and Tu-22M Backfire. The Tu-16 fired antiship missiles of which a single variant had a 800kg warhead, with 3 more antiship missile variants that had 1000kg-1200kg warheads. These missiles could also be fitted with a 350 kiloton-1,000 kiloton nuclear warheads, easily defeating any US CVN(US nuclear powered carrier). F-14's would either be on a Combat Air Patrol while others sat on the Carrier on "Ready-5" meaning that they could be airborne within 5 minutes of the fellow aviators our on CAP requiring assistance. The Ready-5 a/c would then perform a "deck launched intercept" and depending on stores, would launch, then head towards an interception point as fast as it could using Max thrust. It would then drop its now depleted external tanks and engage in combat. 6 Phoenix were never carried as it would be too heavy to land. Even if it did get under the max landing weight of the carrier arresting equipment, there would be less than 2000 pounds of go around fuel left. All the pictures we see of F-14s with a load of 6 Phoenix were paved airstrip takeoff and landings of Point Mugu. The AWG-9 RADAR and the AIM-54 missile were developed for the F-6D Missileer, then the F-111B and after the F-111Bs cancellation, the F-14 A was developed around teh AWG-9/AIM-54 Phoenix weapons system. Each AIM-54 weighed just over 1000 pounds, so 6 x1000=6000 pounds, but then the launcher equipment used for the Phoenix added another 2,000 pounds, so for 6 Phoenix to be loaded would have added 8,000pounds to the jet. That's double the bomb load capacity for a long range mission of a 4 engines B-17 bomber. The F-14 could technically fly with 676 rounds of 20mm for its rotary gun, 2 external fuel tank(mounted under each engine(position 2 and 7) 6 AIM-54 (4 in the tunnel, and 1 on each wing glove) and 2 AIM-9 Sidewinders(in positions 1A and 8A next to the AIm-54s under the glove which are installed into position 1B and 2B, with the remaining 4 AIm-54 in positions 3,4,5,6. Total 8 missiles. If you were forced to carry 2 AIm-54, you ALWAYS carry them under the jet in the tunnel in positions 3 and 6. Having them under the gloves in position 1 and 8 increases drag over the 3 and 6 carriage. Great work!
I've been a fan of military aviation history/tech since youth, and I appreciate the historical and technological context, and well as technical aspects of BFM, that you provide in supplementation to the flying.
After humping a pack for 20 years I now understand what was going on above my head! Thanks great tutorial..Hope someday you can set up a multiplayer server
I'm glad u posted this video, for someone like me who is a novice at this stuff, and trying to educate myself... Until I seen this I always thought the fox call was for the number of missiles u fired, like if u fire a total of 2 missiles u would say fox 1 for the first then fox 2 for the second...SMH... I feel so stupid admitting that....
Great video! Really like your style. Some thoughts about the phoenix: its radar and its electric battery would not allow for a very long detection range / long duration of radar use. When launched at (or near) max range it will receive a command to fly to a certain position. The missile will fly to that position (maybe guided by INS or GPS in later versions?), activate the radar and lock on whatever it finds within radar range. While the missile is on its way the F-14 could update the missile in case the target is maneuvering. E.g. if the target is doing the F-pole maneuver. Using the external view on the missile nicely shows that the phoenix is changing direction even early after launch. Moreover, the phoenix will not simply aim directly towards the target, but instead it is aiming for a "lead shot". However, that also means if the F-14 is not providing any updates to the missile the phoenix will not correct its course if the target is maneuvering again. I did the following tests: F/A-18 at 35,000 ft (player) versus Excellent AI F-14A at same height loaded with 4 phoenix, 2 AIM7's, and 2 Sidewiders. Aircrafts started heads-on with 80 nm starting distance. Using external missile view I could see the missile anticipated all maneuvers and tried to adjust the point of interception. It was quite successful btw. Kaboom... Now, in a second test the F-14 switched off the radar shortly after the phoenix launch and only then the F/A-18 started an evasive maneuver. This time just a turn of about 20 degrees to the right was sufficient to fly out of phoenix's radar cone. F6 and F10 views showed the phoenix was happily flying in a straight line with no early course corrections. When it was close enough it activated its radar, put on an evil grin, shouted "surprise" and passed my F/A-18 outside kaboom distance like a true rocket. The F/A-18 was already too far away from phoenix' LOS. Actually, in one attempt it was possible to fly back into phoenix's path (better said: radar cone) which caused immediate lock on (= the missile was not "dead", but the F/A-18 was dead again. Curiosity kills). Bottom line: for maneuvering targets the F-14 radar needs to provide updates as long as possible. If the missile needs to lead a lot (= lead angel is large) it might even be necessary in the terminal phase ( in case the lead angel is greater than the radar gimbal).
FOX 1: semi active radar homing (Rim-7 Sparrow or others) FOX 2: Infrared homing (AIM9 Sidewinder or others) FOX 3: active homing (AIM-120 Amraam or others) i needed to leave this as quick reference
I heard that the problems with the Sparrow came down to improper handling, some missiles had over 20 carrier take off-landing-cycles before being fired, and other things, awesome channel
I know this is an old video, but I wanted to clear something up about semi-active missiles - they don't require information from the plane in order to home in on their target. They simply require that a radar signal is projected at their target, so they can "see" it. As an analogy, imagine that instead of needing a radar signal, it's dark and the missile needs a flashlight shined onto its target so it can see it. Semi-active radar missiles (Fox 1) need the plane to shine its flashlight onto the target. It doesn't need information from the plane, per se, it just needs the target to be lit up. Active radar missiles (Fox 3) would be like giving the missile its own flashlight so the plane doesn't need to keep pointing its own flashlight at the target.
For those who still don't get it, lemme simplify this. Fox 1: semi-active radar homing (these missiles were guided by your plane's radar) Fox 2: Infrared homing (these missiles are guided by the target plane's temperature, will lock on better if the target's jet engine faces towards your 12) Fox 3: Active radar homing (these missiles are guided by their own radar) Rifle: air to ground (these missiles are guided by your plane's radar, just like fox 1, but for ground targets)
Very informative video, I like your calm style. Here's some more I learnt recently: "Fox" is short for "foxtrot", the phonetic designation for the letter "F", which is short for "fire". Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_(code_word)
A pilot does not "fire" their missiles or guns..."fire" means FIRE!. You "shoot" them. If you're calling "fire" you're reporting you are on fire or have one. Thank you for the video!
Mannnn! Awesome! May I make a request? I am freaking lost watching dcs vids, I'd like to know all the jargon. Such as nails, spike, brah, dope, etc. If I knew the meaning of what was being said, it would make so much sense, as of right now, I am lost as hell.
I was where you are not too long ago, the good news is, as over whelming as it seems if you keep looking up tutorials and doing google searches you'll learn everything you need to know. I'm not sure I can make a tutorial on the stuff you said, as its a little too basic for most people. (I might I dont know, its just that now I have other stuff on the go regarding content) However I've provided you a small list of terminology that should get you started. and a word of advice...its hard at first once you get the hang of it..its very rewarding. so stick to it man. it'll pay off. you're already taking good steps asking around and looking for youtube videos for help. If you ever have any questions feel free to comment on the videos I'll do my best to help you out man. Angels: Altitude in thousand of feet. (“Angels 3” is 3,000 feet.) Bandit:A known bad guy. Bogey:An unknown radar contact. (possibly friendly) Bingo:Low fuel status RTB:Return to base Tally:Enemy in sight (Mud)Spike : RWR contact. Mud spikes are ground radars. Hard spikes are active locks. Nails : RWR contact. (There is a radar in search mode) Splash: enemy aircraft destroyed. Buddy spike: friendly is active locking me. Bullseye = Reference points on a map pre-determined during the briefing for each flight. BRAA = Bearing, range, altitude, aspect. Bug out = Run! Darts = Rockets. Also called rox, rocks, arrows. Dope = Info. "Bogey dope" is a request for enemy aircraft info Dragging = Enemy aircraft following you between your 5 and 7 o'clock Element = Two aircraft in formation Expedite = Hurry the hell up. FAC = Forward air controller Furball = A highly confusing, tight, swirling mass of friendly and enemy pilots bent on killing each other. Home plate = Your primary landing field Miller time = The last man off target in an air-to-ground strike will say this when the final target is dead No joy = No visual on target/friendly Skip it = Request to engage denied. Weeds = Really low altitude (example I'm in the weeds) Winchester = You ran out of ammo appropriate to a specific type of target.
This is a good video to watch even for someone flying Redfor because you get a decent idea what oyu are up against. However, you forgot to mention that the R-27 also has an IR homing variant R-27T and ET. Also IIRC there is no A or C variants of R-27 but rather R and ER (R-27R and R-27ER) .
About the Sparrow in Vietnam, was the problem that these things were designed for longer ranged engagements rather than the visual identification range dogfights they were forced into? I'd imagine that keeping a MiG 17 in your radar beam at five hundred meters while he's twisting around like a cut snake is not a simple task.
The Original Aim 120 was a medium range Air to Air Missile. It wasn't until the late 1991 that Hughes came up with the operational Aim-120A it was a replacement for the Aim 7. The Aim 120A and B had a Range of 30 to 40 miles. The Aim 120C-5 had a range 57nmi and the Aim 120D (C-8) has a range of 86nmi.
You forgot “magnum” - firing anti radiation missile at SAM, “maddog” - firing an AMRAAM without radar guidance and “Winchester missiles” - wingman is out of ammo
Here's a correction. The AIM-9 was off a Taiwanese F-86. It hit the MIG and stuck in the tailpipe. The Russian also got one in Germany by putting on in an old role of carpet and walk out of the bomb dump w/ it.
For those are interested, Anti Radar Missiles are coded as “Magnum”, anti Ship Missiles are coded as “Bruiser”, and going Guns used to be Fox 4, But is now “Guns, Guns, Guns”
"MAGNUM" was the "brevity code" when launching the AGM-88 HARM(High Speed Anti-Radiation Missile). American aircrews fighting in Desert Storm noticed that when they launched an AGM-88 and called out the brevity code "MAGNUM" that the enemy RADAR(RAdio Detection And Ranging) operators would switch off their sets in an effort to survive the missile attack. Basically, a USAF F-4G Wild Weasel, F-16, and Navy A-6, A-7, F/A-18 A-F and the EA-6B could have flown along with the aircrews making "MAGNUM" calls along the way and successfully suppress enemy air defense without firing a shot. Of course, this ruse wouldn't work for long, but could be useful just in case the aircraft was "WINCHESTER", (brevity code for an aircraft that has expended all available munitions) and found itself in a bad spot within an IADS(Integrated Air Defense System).
The AIM 54 has an interesting history it was actually originally designed for the stillborn US Navy end of the F-111 project. The missile was actually fully developed along with guidance radar before the Navy backed out of the F-111 project. Later the system was adapted to fit on the F-14. However the story goes back even further to two canceled USAF intectopr projects the YF-12 and XF-108 These projects had the direct predecessor to the Hughes Aim54 the Aim47 which never saw service but all of it's development was used to design the Aim54. The Aim54 was really designed as a bomber killer. They would have used them against Tu195 Bears and TU16 Badgers in action so in truth they did not require much agility. Also the real missile "lofted" at higher altitudes to get better range and then dove down.
The missile you're thinking of that the Russians made out of the Sidewinder is the K-13 Vympel, it's got a NATO callsign of AA-2 Atoll I believe. Not their first missile, but one of the earliest.
r-73 detonation depends on modification: radar or laser, distance 0.3-40km (20-40 into face). r-27t has passive IR guidance, r-27P fox-3 range 72km, r-27ep fox-3 with range 110km, there is no modification with 130km range, r27-r and r-27er fox-1. r-77 hasn't modifications with IR just command-inertial on the initial and active on the final section of the trajectory.
13:07 a grenade or an artillery shell is a better example to the explosive device of the Phoenix. The Sidewinder is different. There are, AA missiles that function, in a similar sort of fashion, to buck shot or like an anti aircraft shell. This is not to be confused with the missile seen in 'Behind Enemy Lines' which was pure fantasy. The type of warhead I'm referring to is called a CRW or Continuous Rod Warhead. Basically it's a series of metal rods that, when the missile detonates, the rods are sent outwards in a cloud, usually projected in a circle perpendicular, and around, the missile trajectory. So the explosion continues forward, followed shortly after by a "cloud" of metal rods. For further info see here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead
The Phoenix was designed for a different program. The A-5 Vigilante had a special version that they were trying to sell to the DoD. The DoD failed to buy the plane but was interested in the Phoenix as a Surface to air version. Some mock up were made but because of the deck shift problem and gyro failure in adverse weather, it was sidelined. Data from that failed program actually went into the SEARAM Program. The Navy was looking to cut the A5 and liked the Phoenix, the system was actually integrated into the F-14 after the F-15 was found to be unable to adapt to carrier simulations in its early testing. The gear being too weak when fully loaded. The carrier training site in Pensacola was home to that testing. The Phoenix found its new home after 2 other platforms failed...some say the F14 actually was a failure to use it too. In training there were less than 40% hit rates. The Iranians actually used the Phoenix but they had added their own electronics to it to improve it. There is some speculation that the Russians gave the Iranians help by giving them several of their A2A missile systems. Iran took systems and used the technology to improve the Phoenix. The Phoenix was successful but only as a deterrent. In combat its one of the biggest failures. The F-18 was adapted to use it but they ended up using the upgrades in weight distribution to carry the AIM-120 Instead. You probably should have cover E/O targeting if you talking Russian aircraft and ordnance.
AIM120 used not only by NATO. Japanese, Sweden, Taiwan and many others countries uses AMRAAM or produces under license(like Swedish Rb.99). R-73 has high explosive continuous rod warhead and radar-proximity/laser-proximity detonator. And if you will need information from Russian or Swedish sources, i will be glad to help.
Active radar missiles can be short range because they don't have a mid-course guidance package. Long range requires the mid-course guidance package that is usually provided by digital link from the firing aircraft which puts the missile into the "basket" where its radar can find the target. Latest AIM-120 (AMRAAM) mid-course guidance package uses GPS. Keep in mind that the AIM-54 had a large warhead because they were designed to take on Soviet bombers not fighters, though the radar (F-14 and AIM-54) upgrades allowed high-low level engagements of fighters and cruise missiles. A similar FCS using the AIM-47 Eagle missile was in the YF-12A which was the platform the AWG-9 and AIM-54 was developed from. Also while the F-14A could be launched with six AIM-54 it could not land back on the carrier with more than four. No, the AA-2 was derived from a Sidewinder fired by a Nationalist Chinese F-86F which struck a Chinese MiG-17 and did not detonate and was stuck in the tailpipe during one of the confrontations during the mid-1950s over the Formosa Straight. The AIM-7 was designed in the late 1950s as a counter to air to surface missile carrying Soviet bombers. Such targets would not be very maneuverable and would have large radar signatures. During Vietnam, BVR engagements were banned because of the movement of neutral country commercial aircraft traffic. Such engagements against early MiG-21 (and MiG-17s) would have had a higher success rate because the target would be generally unaware of the launch. But VR engagements saw a high speed, but limited maneuverable AIM-7 being fired at fast and maneuvering targets at short ranges. On occasion, the target was close enough, the AIM-7 could be fired "bore sight" which meant a straight path to the target without homing. But usually the target out-maneuvered the missile or was outside the AIM-7 envelope. The same problem applied to the AIM-4, which was designed as both a SARH and IR homing (like the Soviet interceptors, both an IR and an SARH missile would be volleyed at a target) against Soviet bombers penetrating US-Canadian air space. Both AIM-7 and AIM-4 were modified for shorter range at faster speeds with more maneuver capability which improved dogfighting performance, but with degraded performance against the original performance. The AIM-26 was an improved AIM-4. Skyflash is a British mod and Aspide an Italian mod of the AIM-7.
Correct me if Im wrong.I am not sure if a Fox 1 actually receives any instructions from the plane that launched it. I believe this missile entirely relies on a constant radar target painting of the plane that launched it. You call this a lock-on. The missile is looking for a radar reflection of the target plane that is been painted by radar from the launching plane.
14:00 the range of the AIM-9 is designed for NLOS engagements. Non Light Of Sight. Things like the F-22. it is designed to engage targets outside the line of sight. the new AIM-9 system that is to see service next year has a cool new feature... if enemy is on your ass, you can lock the new AIM-9s, fire, and they will loop around and go after the target that is behind you. the AIM-9 is designed to be a short to med range air to air missile system developed by Raytheon, Loral, and Ford. (yes Ford has an Aerospace branch). The main model of these missile are IR. Though they are also grandfathered from its earlier stage from the AIM-9C to use Semi-Active Radar link. Though most systems do not need or use this system, as the AIM-9 is to be used as a defensive weapon on platforms like AH-64s, AH-1s, F-15s, F16s, and F-18s. The Use of the SARL (Semi-Active Radar Link) system for the AIM-9 is a simple programming change. The AIM-9 was originally designed to be a long range AA and given the maneuverability to deal with swiveling targets. Though the use of the missile was changed considering such a long range engagement wouldnt be reasonable for an IR missile vs. countermeasures. Though, the point of the SARL is not needed as the AIM-9 has been built up drematicly in performance and IRCCM capabilities, able to ignore flares, able to use both LOAL and LOBL Lock On After Laucnh, and Lock On Before Launch.) meaning, the F-22 can detect the target, lock onto the target, change course, fire the AIM-9, readjust course, then send data link to missile, and itll turn and intercept the aircraft, wile the F-22 comes in at the other side. this can be used to prevent detection of missile launch. Fun fact. the AIM-9 can target and be launched at ground targets.
As much as I can remember Phoenix was two stage homing missile. First - inertial. After radar lock the missile is launched on intercept course where it should meet the target if the target does not change its course, then the second stage is active radar when it gets close enough so the small radar in the missile can do its job.
So what’s the difference between Proximity fuse and Active reader target detection? They both use the radar to detect the distance from the enemy fighter?
Before the Tomcat was on the drawing board the AIM-54 was chosen as the primary weapon for the F-111B, which also had the AWG-9 Radar. The F-111B could be fitted with 4 AIM-54s on pivoting wing pylons and 2 in the weapons bay imgur.com/6BPFY35
for the sidearm and Harm, you'd call "magnum" (because they are both anti radiation), bombs are pickle, and another one is "Bruiser" for anti-ship missiles such as the AGM-84 Harpoon or French Exocet.
Just a little note that the Russia got the missile through the Chinese AF when they were fighting with ROC（Kuomindang） AFs during the 60s，the plane was a J5（an afterburner version of mig17）PS：The missile‘s first kill is also a mig15（not J5）from PLAAF. also PS：the leaking of the missile technology is the reason why ROC did not got cutting edgy from US since then.
13:20 -- annular blast-frag warhead is actually the same fragmentation steel/tungsten balls firing "shotgun", but pointed in a circle, creating far denser kill zone perpendicular to missile's centerline. What you're describing is a continuous-rod warhead, which first tries to cut it's target, then acts like an annular-frag with lower density. Sad thing is DCS' damage and ammunition models are extremely primitive (blocked DM without internal shrapnel tracking/secondaries and spherical high explosive warheads/shells/bullets), thus one of the deadliest warheads (continuous-rod) on R-60 is actually the weakest in the game (and no missiles, shells and bullets work as they should).
Don't know if this chat is still active or not, got a question. If you fire a aim 120 in ACM radar modes within the 10nm required, do they go pit bull the minute they are fired? Can't tell if I'm just doing some bad shooting or if its cause I'm loosing bore sight. Would like to see a video on ACM modes of F/A-18C and their effects on the different weapon systems individually if any has some knowledge. Stuff like the cone coverage of all different modes for things like F-pole, is F-18 the same as F-15?
Couple of related questions: Is it true that fox 2s, like the aim9 sidewinder, can't be detected other than by visual identification? Like, as a pilot, you wouldn't get tone from having one lock onto you? Since it tracks via heat and not via radar, I read that there is no way to detect it..? If the above is true, then why are fox 3s better or more advanced than fox 2s? Since you get tone from being locked onto via radar, wouldn't it be easier to evade? Or are fox 3 radar locks somehow harder to evade/confuse with chaff?
interesting question, you shouldnt really compare which one is better, theyre for different situations, the Fox 3 is intended for targets that are BVR, or Beyond Visual Range. the Fox2 is intended for WVR or Within Visual Range. The range of a fox2 is maybe 5-7miles at MOST, where a Fox 3 can hit a target 60 miles away, if not more in real life.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Ah I see, that's neat. But it is true that there's no way for pilots to detect fox2s lock on? Is it inaccurate when some video games have warnings display when enemy fighters send fox2s?
in most cases, you need to visually ID a fox2 launch because as you said, your RWR should not give an indication, however there are systems that can tell you if ANY missile has been launched near you (this includes fox2), the A10C for example has this kind of system (I forget its name) but the thing is, it can't tell if the fox2 has been launched at you it can just tell you a missile was launched, it could be ur wingman shooting at a bandit the warning will still go off. so in short to ID a fox2 missile launch on you, you NEED to visually see the launch to know for sure.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Ah, very cool. Sorry to be a bother, but as another followup, how does that kind of a system work? The one that can tell if anything was launched? Is it thermal?
iczyje no bother, I would venture a guess it’s looking for the thermal exhaust of a missile launch yes. I’m not too sure about exactly how it works if I’m being honest.
Something to know about your history lesson of the AIM-54 Phoenix. It was NOT originally designed to be carried by the F-14. It was initially designed to be carried by the YF-12 which was an interceptor version of the A-12 or SR-71. The YF-12 never went into service and the F-14 was the next interceptor being created, therefore they were handed over to the Navy. Also the US Navy has NEVER used the Phoenix in actual Combat. American F-14s only have 2 kills they ever got which was against 2 Libyan Mig-23. One was with a Sparrow and the other was an AIM-9 kill Another thing to note on the AIM-54 Phoenix are the variants which are also in the game. The AIM-54A (of which there are 2 variants) is a Fox 1 missile and the AIM-54C is a Fox 3 missile with a smokeless trail
Good video but you are so wrong about AMRAAM It had nothing to do with AIM-54 replacement AMRAAM was developed not as a replacement for AIM-54, but as a complement/replacement of AIM-7 sparrow Aim-7 sparrow had a semi active radar homing guidance, which meant that the launching aircraft would have to keep closing in on the target until impact - illuminating the target continuously When all aspect heat seekers like aim-9 Lima came around, they conducted a study that found out that low cost fighters with all aspect missiles can take out powerful fighters with long range radars - as they would have to keep closing the gap/keep illuminating the target - resulting in a mutual kill So they wanted a missile that can have multiple launch like Phoenix but with the size of sparrow - hence the amraam
I recently worked at MBDA on missile seekers. As you said, on long-range missiles, active radar is only used during terminal guidance, but it's very hard to fool with chaff because it uses chirp Doppler radar: the chaff slows down quite quickly on ejection, and the seeker can identify the fast-moving bandit amongst the slow-moving cloud of chaff. And the prox fuse does the rest.
very interesting, thank you for sharing.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Thank you, GS. I miss that job, but alas there were cutbacks after one of the seeker projects on which I was working finished early. I was only there a couple of years, but I learnt a lot about the brains of the missile in that time. Fascinating job. I still work in defence (I was able to carry over my security clearance from MBDA, so it made that aspect a lot quicker), but not on nearly as complex a product, though still air-related. At the age of 57, I have spent a total of 20 years working in aerospace and defence, and it is vital and interesting work.
You may have confused "all aspect" with "off boresight".
All Aspect - The target may be in any orientation... a selling point of later generation IR missiles because you no longer need a rear aspect (ie looking up the tailpipe) for a lock.
Off Boresight - You can acquire the target that is not in front of your aircraft. Best known is the AIM9X which with all aspect and high off boresight capabilities you can basically look nearly over your shoulder and lock and fire the missile.
Actually old R-73 is known for that - 60 degrees off boresight, 45 degrees for export versions. Sidewinder just got that option recently with X version with better angles.
@@TheGranicd R-73 is the example for that as it was first to offer off-bore launch that is higher than the seeker gimbal. The first one was 45 degree gimbal limit and upgraded was 60-70 degree. But if you used a HMS cueing then you get extra 15-20 degree for cueing.
But benefit of the R-73M is that you could shoot it backwards after merge of you get seeker to lock on target as it calculates angle and goes after it when launched. You don't need a lock, just to tell it "look a target at that area and go for it". But danger is that you might shoot a friend as then seeker ain't locked to enemy and it goes first thing it see.
Combine that with "Cobra" maneuverability and you can point your missile at any direction in air and launch multiple missiles at multiple adversities rapidly.
The Rafale can do that as well with its Mica
How does a fox 1 function in beyond visual range?
@@karlhans6678
The radar of the plane tracks the target with its radar and transmits it to the missile.
Meanwhile me in Ace Combat: "Hahaha machine gun goes brrrrr missile goes wuuush! FOX 2 FOX 2"
Hahaha yes. I play Ace Combat and we just spam random missiles and get a bunch of kills.
Jajajajaja I laughed so hard with this! You made my day 🤣
Meanwhile in Tiny Combat Arena : “GAU-12 GOES BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR AND ALL ACES DOWN”
As someone who self identifies as stupid, I am very triggered at your saying the missile "goes stupid". Just because it gets confused easily doesn't mean it shouldn't be applauded for the effort. Unsubscribe.
lol ur a funny guy zorro
Zorro LoL
Zorro lol
*w h o s a i d i w a s j o k i n g*
Durell Dailey
Haha! That’s the joke!
and my favourite out of all the calls - "Guns guns guns !"
Which is also Fox-4, Fox-4, Fox-4!
@@rpeltier2621 not used anymore. Sadly
You forgot one - Fox 4 (Full afterburner straight in head on or from his six. Hit eject at 500 yards. :)
Lol, way to go full banzai on your enemy
BF4 in a nutshell
@Rene_gade ...and that is?
I'd call out "FOX FUCK YOURSELF!" or maybe "FOX FUCKER!"
@Rene_gade Well what is guns then?
I am new to all of this. I have been learning basics with VTOL but once my HOTAS comes in I’m switching to DCS. That being said it’s hard to get good info about a lot of this stuff. I have to say I love your videos but especially this one. I LOVE all the “extra info” you give. My favorite video yet that explains this stuff!
A couple of observations. (1) AIM-54 was actually designed for the F-111B. (2) Not all NATO countries now use the AIM 9. The UK uses AIM-132 ASRAAM, some European countries use IRS-T, some east European NATO countries still use Russian weapons and finally France uses the Matra Magic II.
From memory the Magic II is only used on the Mirage. The Rafale uses the Mica (The Mirage proably uses it as well but I can't remember)
@@thekenjistream8683 you would be correct. The Mirage 2000 is capable of using the radar guided Mica and IR Mica versions. I do think the Magic II is still used, but I don't know for sure.
@@juliomaldonado4028 MICA-IR is for the Mirage2000-5 and rafale, but all these planes can carry the magic missile. * MAGIC missiles family is no more produced and will be retired for 2020. And a little precision, all planes that can carry the Sidewinder missile can carry the magic, and vice-versa.
@@juliomaldonado4028 Magic II was able of being used by Mirage F1, Super Etendard and Mirage 2000... while earlier versions of Rafale were capable of using it, it i think by that time it was replaced for good, since the proximity fuse give a lot of troubles blowing the missile too far away. In fact Magic 1 fuse was much more reliable
Australia's 'classic' hornets also use the ASRAAM, and Australia's "super' hornets use the AIM9X
Another aspect that is very very important is that semi-active missiles (Fox 1) are much cheaper to produce than active radar missiles (Fox 3) but they are more tactically limited since they are by no means fire&forget, that means for air combat the chance your plane might be forced to move from his position unlocking the target, or a much worse case-scenario... in ground/naval defenses at last depends on how many planes are attacking a certain ship/defended area, that might produce a collapse on FCS (a huge problem with 70 to 90's technology aboard ships across the world).
But back in the planes, if Fox 1, 2 and 3 are avaiable, It is safe to say that i'd pick a Fox 3 any day, since cannon could somehow "replace" the Fox 2 and Fox 1 its just a cheaper lesser version of the Fox 3
Excellent channel GS, coming from an old Retired Nimitz sailor circa 1980, GONZO Station, Indian Ocean, during the Iranian Hostage Crisis. I have been a fan of Flight Sims for years and feeling a bit intimidated by these incredible "Study" aircraft ie. Hornet, TomCat and Mirage (my faves). I have DCS, had it for several years, LOCKON before that. I currently have the A10 (Study level version), with TM Warthog HOTAS. I just need to get focused and do some reading. Anyway I really enjoy your videos and you're a great teacher to boot. Good stuff and as always "FLY NAVY"..
its an honor to hear from guys at your level that they enjoy the channel. Thanks very much for that kind feedback. I hope you manage to get that focus you're after we can always use other good guys in the skies of DCS. hope to see you around brother
Very good video, thankyou! 1) I just wanted to mention that instead of the AIM-120 being designed as a replacement for the AIM-54 Phoenix, I think that the AIM-120 was developed more likely as a replacement for the AIM-9 Sparrow. Development of the AIM-120 AMRAAM began in the late 70's and by the time that Desert Storm in 1991 came about the missile still wasn't in use operationally. Apparently there were 200 brand new AIM-120 AMRAAMs "in theater" for the 1st Gulf War, but their use in combat is either classified, or never occurred. 2) the main reason why the AIM-54 Phoenix was so large, was so that it could bring down large Soviet bombers down with a single missile. the bombers in question were the Tu-16 Badger and Tu-22M Backfire. The Tu-16 fired antiship missiles of which a single variant had a 800kg warhead, with 3 more antiship missile variants that had 1000kg-1200kg warheads. These missiles could also be fitted with a 350 kiloton-1,000 kiloton nuclear warheads, easily defeating any US CVN(US nuclear powered carrier). F-14's would either be on a Combat Air Patrol while others sat on the Carrier on "Ready-5" meaning that they could be airborne within 5 minutes of the fellow aviators our on CAP requiring assistance. The Ready-5 a/c would then perform a "deck launched intercept" and depending on stores, would launch, then head towards an interception point as fast as it could using Max thrust. It would then drop its now depleted external tanks and engage in combat. 6 Phoenix were never carried as it would be too heavy to land. Even if it did get under the max landing weight of the carrier arresting equipment, there would be less than 2000 pounds of go around fuel left. All the pictures we see of F-14s with a load of 6 Phoenix were paved airstrip takeoff and landings of Point Mugu. The AWG-9 RADAR and the AIM-54 missile were developed for the F-6D Missileer, then the F-111B and after the F-111Bs cancellation, the F-14 A was developed around teh AWG-9/AIM-54 Phoenix weapons system. Each AIM-54 weighed just over 1000 pounds, so 6 x1000=6000 pounds, but then the launcher equipment used for the Phoenix added another 2,000 pounds, so for 6 Phoenix to be loaded would have added 8,000pounds to the jet. That's double the bomb load capacity for a long range mission of a 4 engines B-17 bomber.
The F-14 could technically fly with 676 rounds of 20mm for its rotary gun, 2 external fuel tank(mounted under each engine(position 2 and 7) 6 AIM-54 (4 in the tunnel, and 1 on each wing glove) and 2 AIM-9 Sidewinders(in positions 1A and 8A next to the AIm-54s under the glove which are installed into position 1B and 2B, with the remaining 4 AIm-54 in positions 3,4,5,6. Total 8 missiles. If you were forced to carry 2 AIm-54, you ALWAYS carry them under the jet in the tunnel in positions 3 and 6. Having them under the gloves in position 1 and 8 increases drag over the 3 and 6 carriage. Great work!
I've been a fan of military aviation history/tech since youth, and I appreciate the historical and technological context, and well as technical aspects of BFM, that you provide in supplementation to the flying.
After humping a pack for 20 years I now understand what was going on above my head! Thanks great tutorial..Hope someday you can set up a multiplayer server
Ur welcome Neil. I'm glad u enjoyed it brother.
I'm glad u posted this video, for someone like me who is a novice at this stuff, and trying to educate myself... Until I seen this I always thought the fox call was for the number of missiles u fired, like if u fire a total of 2 missiles u would say fox 1 for the first then fox 2 for the second...SMH... I feel so stupid admitting that....
nothing wrong with thinking that, actually its pretty logical. but now you know better lol
Great video! Really like your style. Some thoughts about the phoenix: its radar and its electric battery would not allow for a very long detection range / long duration of radar use. When launched at (or near) max range it will receive a command to fly to a certain position. The missile will fly to that position (maybe guided by INS or GPS in later versions?), activate the radar and lock on whatever it finds within radar range. While the missile is on its way the F-14 could update the missile in case the target is maneuvering. E.g. if the target is doing the F-pole maneuver. Using the external view on the missile nicely shows that the phoenix is changing direction even early after launch. Moreover, the phoenix will not simply aim directly towards the target, but instead it is aiming for a "lead shot".
However, that also means if the F-14 is not providing any updates to the missile the phoenix will not correct its course if the target is maneuvering again.
I did the following tests: F/A-18 at 35,000 ft (player) versus Excellent AI F-14A at same height loaded with 4 phoenix, 2 AIM7's, and 2 Sidewiders. Aircrafts started heads-on with 80 nm starting distance.
Using external missile view I could see the missile anticipated all maneuvers and tried to adjust the point of interception. It was quite successful btw. Kaboom...
Now, in a second test the F-14 switched off the radar shortly after the phoenix launch and only then the F/A-18 started an evasive maneuver. This time just a turn of about 20 degrees to the right was sufficient to fly out of phoenix's radar cone. F6 and F10 views showed the phoenix was happily flying in a straight line with no early course corrections. When it was close enough it activated its radar, put on an evil grin, shouted "surprise" and passed my F/A-18 outside kaboom distance like a true rocket. The F/A-18 was already too far away from phoenix' LOS. Actually, in one attempt it was possible to fly back into phoenix's path (better said: radar cone) which caused immediate lock on (= the missile was not "dead", but the F/A-18 was dead again. Curiosity kills).
Bottom line: for maneuvering targets the F-14 radar needs to provide updates as long as possible. If the missile needs to lead a lot (= lead angel is large) it might even be necessary in the terminal phase ( in case the lead angel is greater than the radar gimbal).
very cool, thank you for sharing the results of ur test. cant wait to try some of this out when the f14 comes out.
Very informative. You're an excellent teacher!
Michael Johannon thanks very much I appreciate that
FOX 1: semi active radar homing (Rim-7 Sparrow or others)
FOX 2: Infrared homing (AIM9 Sidewinder or others)
FOX 3: active homing (AIM-120 Amraam or others)
i needed to leave this as quick reference
Need to add, FOX4: Guns (radar or passive)
Excellent video. Interesting and informative. FOX THREE! *fires and goes vertical*
I heard that the problems with the Sparrow came down to improper handling, some missiles had over 20 carrier take off-landing-cycles before being fired, and other things, awesome channel
I know this is an old video, but I wanted to clear something up about semi-active missiles - they don't require information from the plane in order to home in on their target. They simply require that a radar signal is projected at their target, so they can "see" it.
As an analogy, imagine that instead of needing a radar signal, it's dark and the missile needs a flashlight shined onto its target so it can see it. Semi-active radar missiles (Fox 1) need the plane to shine its flashlight onto the target. It doesn't need information from the plane, per se, it just needs the target to be lit up. Active radar missiles (Fox 3) would be like giving the missile its own flashlight so the plane doesn't need to keep pointing its own flashlight at the target.
For those who still don't get it, lemme simplify this.
Fox 1: semi-active radar homing
(these missiles were guided by your plane's radar)
Fox 2: Infrared homing
(these missiles are guided by the target plane's temperature, will lock on better if the target's jet engine faces towards your 12)
Fox 3: Active radar homing
(these missiles are guided by their own radar)
Rifle: air to ground
(these missiles are guided by your plane's radar, just like fox 1, but for ground targets)
Are Fox 3 radars as good as the Jets? You’d think it being smaller means less chance of hit or smaller radar “scope” or scale
Very clear graphical explanation - thanks!
This is the most helpful video I've ever seen on this subject. Thank you!
Very informative video, I like your calm style. Here's some more I learnt recently: "Fox" is short for "foxtrot", the phonetic designation for the letter "F", which is short for "fire".
Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_(code_word)
A pilot does not "fire" their missiles or guns..."fire" means FIRE!. You "shoot" them. If you're calling "fire" you're reporting you are on fire or have one. Thank you for the video!
You see the red button? NEVER push the red button..
Remember that red button?
PUSH THE RED BUTTON!
Fire Means you're burnt/having fire. If you say the type of the missile, you launch them. For guns.... I don't know.
Soviet Union guns is shoot
What is correct in your country isn't same for others. In many movies we hear "fired a missile" where were you?
@@kikurasss8970 You're quoting movies? LMAO.
This was one of the staple weapons the 80's that all the kids in my public school went nuts about. Other weapons:
Spas12
Uzi
Steyr Aug
Wow, you did it!!!? Thank you so much. It's a perfect tutorial. Perfect English for me. Merci beaucoup mate.
pascal portellano haha yes sir I did it. Enjoy buddy.
Mannnn! Awesome! May I make a request? I am freaking lost watching dcs vids, I'd like to know all the jargon. Such as nails, spike, brah, dope, etc. If I knew the meaning of what was being said, it would make so much sense, as of right now, I am lost as hell.
I was where you are not too long ago, the good news is, as over whelming as it seems if you keep looking up tutorials and doing google searches you'll learn everything you need to know. I'm not sure I can make a tutorial on the stuff you said, as its a little too basic for most people. (I might I dont know, its just that now I have other stuff on the go regarding content) However I've provided you a small list of terminology that should get you started. and a word of advice...its hard at first once you get the hang of it..its very rewarding. so stick to it man. it'll pay off. you're already taking good steps asking around and looking for youtube videos for help. If you ever have any questions feel free to comment on the videos I'll do my best to help you out man.
Angels: Altitude in thousand of feet. (“Angels 3” is 3,000 feet.)
Bandit:A known bad guy.
Bogey:An unknown radar contact. (possibly friendly)
Bingo:Low fuel status
RTB:Return to base
Tally:Enemy in sight
(Mud)Spike : RWR contact. Mud spikes are ground radars. Hard spikes are active locks.
Nails : RWR contact. (There is a radar in search mode)
Splash: enemy aircraft destroyed.
Buddy spike: friendly is active locking me.
Bullseye = Reference points on a map pre-determined during the briefing for each flight.
BRAA = Bearing, range, altitude, aspect.
Bug out = Run!
Darts = Rockets. Also called rox, rocks, arrows.
Dope = Info. "Bogey dope" is a request for enemy aircraft info
Dragging = Enemy aircraft following you between your 5 and 7 o'clock
Element = Two aircraft in formation
Expedite = Hurry the hell up.
FAC = Forward air controller
Furball = A highly confusing, tight, swirling mass of friendly and enemy pilots bent on killing each other.
Home plate = Your primary landing field
Miller time = The last man off target in an air-to-ground strike will say this when the final target is dead
No joy = No visual on target/friendly
Skip it = Request to engage denied.
Weeds = Really low altitude (example I'm in the weeds)
Winchester = You ran out of ammo appropriate to a specific type of target.
good news man, i'm making this video you requested hoping to get it uploaded today maybe tmrw at the latest. thanks for the suggestion
Or you could just Google NATO brevity codes. There's a nice PDF
Please do it, there is a lot of people like me that english is not my first language, even if i speak english thoose jargons are really confusing
google: 'multiservice tactical brevity code'
you'll find this: webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/virtual_disk_library/index.cgi/821003/FID581/pubs/af/10/afjpam10-228/afjpam10-228.pdf
This is a good video to watch even for someone flying Redfor because you get a decent idea what oyu are up against.
However, you forgot to mention that the R-27 also has an IR homing variant R-27T and ET. Also IIRC there is no A or C variants of R-27 but rather R and ER (R-27R and R-27ER) .
About the Sparrow in Vietnam, was the problem that these things were designed for longer ranged engagements rather than the visual identification range dogfights they were forced into? I'd imagine that keeping a MiG 17 in your radar beam at five hundred meters while he's twisting around like a cut snake is not a simple task.
The Original Aim 120 was a medium range Air to Air Missile. It wasn't until the late 1991 that Hughes came up with the operational Aim-120A it was a replacement for the Aim 7. The Aim 120A and B had a Range of 30 to 40 miles. The Aim 120C-5 had a range 57nmi and the Aim 120D (C-8) has a range of 86nmi.
Wow, I've never heard of Bruiser before. Good to know!
You forgot “magnum” - firing anti radiation missile at SAM, “maddog” - firing an AMRAAM without radar guidance and “Winchester missiles” - wingman is out of ammo
Here's a correction. The AIM-9 was off a Taiwanese F-86. It hit the MIG and stuck in the tailpipe. The Russian also got one in Germany by putting on in an old role of carpet and walk out of the bomb dump w/ it.
and the Russians declared that the Sidewinder was the equivalent of a university course in air to air missle technology design
Great explanations, Good visual aids. Excellent videos pal.
thanks james, glad you enjoyed it man
For those are interested, Anti Radar Missiles are coded as “Magnum”, anti Ship Missiles are coded as “Bruiser”, and going Guns used to be Fox 4, But is now “Guns, Guns, Guns”
And "Winchester" means you're out of ammo.... "Fasteagle two is winchester guns"... I've always thought that one was kinda cool
"MAGNUM" was the "brevity code" when launching the AGM-88 HARM(High Speed Anti-Radiation Missile). American aircrews fighting in Desert Storm noticed that when they launched an AGM-88 and called out the brevity code "MAGNUM" that the enemy RADAR(RAdio Detection And Ranging) operators would switch off their sets in an effort to survive the missile attack. Basically, a USAF F-4G Wild Weasel, F-16, and Navy A-6, A-7, F/A-18 A-F and the EA-6B could have flown along with the aircrews making "MAGNUM" calls along the way and successfully suppress enemy air defense without firing a shot. Of course, this ruse wouldn't work for long, but could be useful just in case the aircraft was "WINCHESTER", (brevity code for an aircraft that has expended all available munitions) and found itself in a bad spot within an IADS(Integrated Air Defense System).
The AIM 54 has an interesting history it was actually originally designed for the stillborn US Navy end of the F-111 project. The missile was actually fully developed along with guidance radar before the Navy backed out of the F-111 project. Later the system was adapted to fit on the F-14.
However the story goes back even further to two canceled USAF intectopr projects the YF-12 and XF-108 These projects had the direct predecessor to the Hughes Aim54 the Aim47 which never saw service but all of it's development was used to design the Aim54.
The Aim54 was really designed as a bomber killer. They would have used them against Tu195 Bears and TU16 Badgers in action so in truth they did not require much agility. Also the real missile "lofted" at higher altitudes to get better range and then dove down.
exactly, and with a top down terminal trajectory from above 80,000 feet there really was no escape.
Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. I sulute you sir for your contribution.
Thank you & continue what you do. 👍🏿
thank you man willco
Thanks again for this great education.. it is so helpful.
Another really nice tutorial chocked full of interesting information. Keep em coming!
thank you i'm glad you enjoyed and found it interesting.
wow,very nice and easy to understand info,do you recommend any books or small brochures that have all of the missiles in 1 place?
I remember “Fox 4” being used for guns. (AKA “Guns Guns Guns”)
The missile you're thinking of that the Russians made out of the Sidewinder is the K-13 Vympel, it's got a NATO callsign of AA-2 Atoll I believe. Not their first missile, but one of the earliest.
Excellent video as usual, and thanks to all that chime in on them with additional knowledge.
r-73 detonation depends on modification: radar or laser, distance 0.3-40km (20-40 into face). r-27t has passive IR guidance, r-27P fox-3 range 72km, r-27ep fox-3 with range 110km, there is no modification with 130km range, r27-r and r-27er fox-1. r-77 hasn't modifications with IR just command-inertial on the initial and active on the final section of the trajectory.
just came across this video, most informative watched the whole thing:)
I’ve always wondered what the fox call meant thank you
13:07 a grenade or an artillery shell is a better example to the explosive device of the Phoenix. The Sidewinder is different. There are, AA missiles that function, in a similar sort of fashion, to buck shot or like an anti aircraft shell. This is not to be confused with the missile seen in 'Behind Enemy Lines' which was pure fantasy. The type of warhead I'm referring to is called a CRW or Continuous Rod Warhead. Basically it's a series of metal rods that, when the missile detonates, the rods are sent outwards in a cloud, usually projected in a circle perpendicular, and around, the missile trajectory. So the explosion continues forward, followed shortly after by a "cloud" of metal rods. For further info see here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-rod_warhead
11:03 Amazing information about the Phoenix guiding the missile for 180 kms then at 9 miles the missile switches to fox 3. Woah! Woah!
The Phoenix was designed for a different program. The A-5 Vigilante had a special version that they were trying to sell to the DoD. The DoD failed to buy the plane but was interested in the Phoenix as a Surface to air version. Some mock up were made but because of the deck shift problem and gyro failure in adverse weather, it was sidelined. Data from that failed program actually went into the SEARAM Program. The Navy was looking to cut the A5 and liked the Phoenix, the system was actually integrated into the F-14 after the F-15 was found to be unable to adapt to carrier simulations in its early testing. The gear being too weak when fully loaded. The carrier training site in Pensacola was home to that testing. The Phoenix found its new home after 2 other platforms failed...some say the F14 actually was a failure to use it too. In training there were less than 40% hit rates.
The Iranians actually used the Phoenix but they had added their own electronics to it to improve it. There is some speculation that the Russians gave the Iranians help by giving them several of their A2A missile systems. Iran took systems and used the technology to improve the Phoenix.
The Phoenix was successful but only as a deterrent. In combat its one of the biggest failures.
The F-18 was adapted to use it but they ended up using the upgrades in weight distribution to carry the AIM-120 Instead.
You probably should have cover E/O targeting if you talking Russian aircraft and ordnance.
AIM120 used not only by NATO. Japanese, Sweden, Taiwan and many others countries uses AMRAAM or produces under license(like Swedish Rb.99). R-73 has high explosive continuous rod warhead and radar-proximity/laser-proximity detonator. And if you will need information from Russian or Swedish sources, i will be glad to help.
more info than any documentary channel O.O
lol glad u enjoyed mate
I love your videos. You explain everything so well its amazing!!
Active radar missiles can be short range because they don't have a mid-course guidance package. Long range requires the mid-course guidance package that is usually provided by digital link from the firing aircraft which puts the missile into the "basket" where its radar can find the target. Latest AIM-120 (AMRAAM) mid-course guidance package uses GPS. Keep in mind that the AIM-54 had a large warhead because they were designed to take on Soviet bombers not fighters, though the radar (F-14 and AIM-54) upgrades allowed high-low level engagements of fighters and cruise missiles. A similar FCS using the AIM-47 Eagle missile was in the YF-12A which was the platform the AWG-9 and AIM-54 was developed from. Also while the F-14A could be launched with six AIM-54 it could not land back on the carrier with more than four. No, the AA-2 was derived from a Sidewinder fired by a Nationalist Chinese F-86F which struck a Chinese MiG-17 and did not detonate and was stuck in the tailpipe during one of the confrontations during the mid-1950s over the Formosa Straight. The AIM-7 was designed in the late 1950s as a counter to air to surface missile carrying Soviet bombers. Such targets would not be very maneuverable and would have large radar signatures. During Vietnam, BVR engagements were banned because of the movement of neutral country commercial aircraft traffic. Such engagements against early MiG-21 (and MiG-17s) would have had a higher success rate because the target would be generally unaware of the launch. But VR engagements saw a high speed, but limited maneuverable AIM-7 being fired at fast and maneuvering targets at short ranges. On occasion, the target was close enough, the AIM-7 could be fired "bore sight" which meant a straight path to the target without homing. But usually the target out-maneuvered the missile or was outside the AIM-7 envelope. The same problem applied to the AIM-4, which was designed as both a SARH and IR homing (like the Soviet interceptors, both an IR and an SARH missile would be volleyed at a target) against Soviet bombers penetrating US-Canadian air space. Both AIM-7 and AIM-4 were modified for shorter range at faster speeds with more maneuver capability which improved dogfighting performance, but with degraded performance against the original performance. The AIM-26 was an improved AIM-4. Skyflash is a British mod and Aspide an Italian mod of the AIM-7.
Thanks for that tutorial. Great info!
The AIM-54 was gong to be used on the A-12 but its pretty hard to launch a missile at MACH 3, So the USN had both the Alpha and Charlie
Thank you so much for the clarification 👍
Thank you for the VOD. 🥃🥃
I wish I had this video in intel school! 👏
Very informative for a newbey. thanks
Thanks dude. Good stuff and well presented. Love your vids and tacview follow up.
thank you man I appreciate that
Correct me if Im wrong.I am not sure if a Fox 1 actually receives any instructions from the plane that launched it. I believe this missile entirely relies on a constant radar target painting of the plane that launched it. You call this a lock-on. The missile is looking for a radar reflection of the target plane that is been painted by radar from the launching plane.
I believe that the early sparrow missiles were launched in pairs to double the chance of a strike. They didn't have a lot of faith in this one.
14:00 the range of the AIM-9 is designed for NLOS engagements. Non Light Of Sight. Things like the F-22. it is designed to engage targets outside the line of sight. the new AIM-9 system that is to see service next year has a cool new feature... if enemy is on your ass, you can lock the new AIM-9s, fire, and they will loop around and go after the target that is behind you.
the AIM-9 is designed to be a short to med range air to air missile system developed by Raytheon, Loral, and Ford. (yes Ford has an Aerospace branch). The main model of these missile are IR. Though they are also grandfathered from its earlier stage from the AIM-9C to use Semi-Active Radar link. Though most systems do not need or use this system, as the AIM-9 is to be used as a defensive weapon on platforms like AH-64s, AH-1s, F-15s, F16s, and F-18s. The Use of the SARL (Semi-Active Radar Link) system for the AIM-9 is a simple programming change. The AIM-9 was originally designed to be a long range AA and given the maneuverability to deal with swiveling targets. Though the use of the missile was changed considering such a long range engagement wouldnt be reasonable for an IR missile vs. countermeasures.
Though, the point of the SARL is not needed as the AIM-9 has been built up drematicly in performance and IRCCM capabilities, able to ignore flares, able to use both LOAL and LOBL Lock On After Laucnh, and Lock On Before Launch.) meaning, the F-22 can detect the target, lock onto the target, change course, fire the AIM-9, readjust course, then send data link to missile, and itll turn and intercept the aircraft, wile the F-22 comes in at the other side. this can be used to prevent detection of missile launch.
Fun fact. the AIM-9 can target and be launched at ground targets.
Very nice explanations. Thanks for clarification, helped alot!
Tepnox happy to hear u found it helpful man
Thank you so much! This was really helpful!! :D
Good educational video thanks for all the facts.
Thx for the explaination....much appreciated....
The blast you are describing “annular blast-frag” sounds like a ring shaped charge which propels frag rods... so it’s an all aspect kill.
Very interesting video(s) , I always wanted to know this. Thanks
As much as I can remember Phoenix was two stage homing missile. First - inertial. After radar lock the missile is launched on intercept course where it should meet the target if the target does not change its course, then the second stage is active radar when it gets close enough so the small radar in the missile can do its job.
Not true
it was passive homing
then active on end stage.
Could you make a tutorial about electronic war? Just like this one, that was certeainly great. Thanks!
Thanks, this was very informative
So what’s the difference between Proximity fuse and Active reader target detection? They both use the radar to detect the distance from the enemy fighter?
Very nice, thanks for this info! regards from Uruguay
What a video man, than u much
I love your logo. Very classic German style . Subbed
Good stuff Sir!
Before the Tomcat was on the drawing board the AIM-54 was chosen as the primary weapon for the F-111B, which also had the AWG-9 Radar. The F-111B could be fitted with 4 AIM-54s on pivoting wing pylons and 2 in the weapons bay
imgur.com/6BPFY35
The reason that the AIM-54 is such a Beast is because it was made to take down large bombers before they can get their Anti-Shipping missiles off.
What are HARM and Sidearms? Would they be rifle too?
And bombs are pickle or what?
for the sidearm and Harm, you'd call "magnum" (because they are both anti radiation),
bombs are pickle, and another one is "Bruiser" for anti-ship missiles such as the AGM-84 Harpoon or French Exocet.
Growling Sidewinder interesting. Looks like we’re gonna be busy getting used to those all for the Hornet.
Just a little note that the Russia got the missile through the Chinese AF when they were fighting with ROC（Kuomindang） AFs during the 60s，the plane was a J5（an afterburner version of mig17）PS：The missile‘s first kill is also a mig15（not J5）from PLAAF. also PS：the leaking of the missile technology is the reason why ROC did not got cutting edgy from US since then.
A great help for a new pilot thanks
nice information dude
For info. The Phoenix was 1st invented for the YF-12 which of course never went into series
Great video man, thank you so much!
That was very helpful
13:20 -- annular blast-frag warhead is actually the same fragmentation steel/tungsten balls firing "shotgun", but pointed in a circle, creating far denser kill zone perpendicular to missile's centerline.
What you're describing is a continuous-rod warhead, which first tries to cut it's target, then acts like an annular-frag with lower density.
Sad thing is DCS' damage and ammunition models are extremely primitive (blocked DM without internal shrapnel tracking/secondaries and spherical high explosive warheads/shells/bullets), thus one of the deadliest warheads (continuous-rod) on R-60 is actually the weakest in the game (and no missiles, shells and bullets work as they should).
What would th3 brevity code be if you....I don't know... fired an unguided rocket meant for air-to-surface use and splashed an aircraft with it?
Electronics in these missiles were messy than spaghettis then. So many seeker modes. Missed the good old days.
If I remember correctly the fuel for the Phoenix was corrosive and took a lot of care to maintain.
Don't forget visibility from the target aircraft aspects are different. You see or dont see them coming, depending on type.
well this answered a question that i did not realize i had.
Don't know if this chat is still active or not, got a question. If you fire a aim 120 in ACM radar modes within the 10nm required, do they go pit bull the minute they are fired? Can't tell if I'm just doing some bad shooting or if its cause I'm loosing bore sight. Would like to see a video on ACM modes of F/A-18C and their effects on the different weapon systems individually if any has some knowledge. Stuff like the cone coverage of all different modes for things like F-pole, is F-18 the same as F-15?
Couple of related questions:
Is it true that fox 2s, like the aim9 sidewinder, can't be detected other than by visual identification? Like, as a pilot, you wouldn't get tone from having one lock onto you? Since it tracks via heat and not via radar, I read that there is no way to detect it..?
If the above is true, then why are fox 3s better or more advanced than fox 2s? Since you get tone from being locked onto via radar, wouldn't it be easier to evade? Or are fox 3 radar locks somehow harder to evade/confuse with chaff?
interesting question, you shouldnt really compare which one is better, theyre for different situations, the Fox 3 is intended for targets that are BVR, or Beyond Visual Range. the Fox2 is intended for WVR or Within Visual Range. The range of a fox2 is maybe 5-7miles at MOST, where a Fox 3 can hit a target 60 miles away, if not more in real life.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Ah I see, that's neat.
But it is true that there's no way for pilots to detect fox2s lock on? Is it inaccurate when some video games have warnings display when enemy fighters send fox2s?
in most cases, you need to visually ID a fox2 launch because as you said, your RWR should not give an indication, however there are systems that can tell you if ANY missile has been launched near you (this includes fox2), the A10C for example has this kind of system (I forget its name) but the thing is, it can't tell if the fox2 has been launched at you it can just tell you a missile was launched, it could be ur wingman shooting at a bandit the warning will still go off. so in short to ID a fox2 missile launch on you, you NEED to visually see the launch to know for sure.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Ah, very cool.
Sorry to be a bother, but as another followup, how does that kind of a system work? The one that can tell if anything was launched? Is it thermal?
iczyje no bother, I would venture a guess it’s looking for the thermal exhaust of a missile launch yes. I’m not too sure about exactly how it works if I’m being honest.
Something to know about your history lesson of the AIM-54 Phoenix. It was NOT originally designed to be carried by the F-14. It was initially designed to be carried by the YF-12 which was an interceptor version of the A-12 or SR-71. The YF-12 never went into service and the F-14 was the next interceptor being created, therefore they were handed over to the Navy.
Also the US Navy has NEVER used the Phoenix in actual Combat. American F-14s only have 2 kills they ever got which was against 2 Libyan Mig-23. One was with a Sparrow and the other was an AIM-9 kill
Another thing to note on the AIM-54 Phoenix are the variants which are also in the game. The AIM-54A (of which there are 2 variants) is a Fox 1 missile and the AIM-54C is a Fox 3 missile with a smokeless trail
Good video but you are so wrong about AMRAAM
It had nothing to do with AIM-54 replacement
AMRAAM was developed not as a replacement for AIM-54, but as a complement/replacement of AIM-7 sparrow
Aim-7 sparrow had a semi active radar homing guidance, which meant that the launching aircraft would have to keep closing in on the target until impact - illuminating the target continuously
When all aspect heat seekers like aim-9 Lima came around, they conducted a study that found out that low cost fighters with all aspect missiles can take out powerful fighters with long range radars - as they would have to keep closing the gap/keep illuminating the target - resulting in a mutual kill
So they wanted a missile that can have multiple launch like Phoenix but with the size of sparrow - hence the amraam
Flare countermeasures aren't always Magnesium. There's a few different chemicals and compounds used, such as phosphorus.
i always wondered about this, cool