Toyota Cam gear rattle repaired with out buying parts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- Infamous Toyota intake cam gear rattle on start up, in this video I show you how to repair it with out buying a new cam gear and with out removing the cam gear from the car.
I borrowed some footage from this you tube channel please check out his channel and give him a Sub.
• Inside a Toyota VVT-i ...
here are the specialty tools I bought to do this job
www.amazon.ca/...
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
This is brilliant!
Not simply because of the part cost, but because of the labor to replace. On the 3.5L 2gr fe, you're supposed to drop entire motor trans subframe to replace these. A 25 hour, $7k job!
A caution. I would use locktite on those bolts. If they ever worked loose, it'd be a disaster.
Toyota may have used some sort of locking technique during part manufacture. Like altered threads or thread surface treatment or a locktite type treatment.
Safe and easy insurance.
I would also remove lock pin and thoroughly clean pin and bore. Any oil varnish deposits can gum the pin up, making it harder on the spring. I'd also polish the pin best I could, so it can glide smoother. Put it in drill and spin it with a fine steel wool, #0000, or a fine scotchbrite pad. Then some actual metal polish. Reverse it in drill, polish other end. Hopefully have drill large enough to fit it.
Also note, on older versions of these gears, there were issues with pin expanding with heat. Slightly too large once up to temp, would jamb in bore. Also some versions where lock pin engagement hole weak metal, hole would oval. This fix can't overcome such design flaws. In those cases you'd have to replace gearset.
Thank you so much I just did this on my Toyota RAV4 2009 and it solved the one second cold start noise you just saved me a lot of money thanks again
you are more than welcome, please share my video with other toyota people.
Were you able to do this without removing the cam gear from the camshaft on your RAV4 2ARFE?
@@tommygomez5343 I have not done that engine yet, So I dont know for sure.
🎉🎉🎉 I am wondering about doing this job too. I just don’t know off hand which is the intake cam gear on the 2ARFE
@@lornesbored It's on the cam that is closest to the firewall on a 2ARFE
Hey man just wanna thank you for the vid. I just bought a 09 rav 4 that had this same issue. I bought a new cam gear and installed it but when i took the old one apart it bugged me cause I figured thats all it was. I couldnt find anywhere to confirm that the part was actually updated so feared i may have to do this job again (car only has 80k miles on it rn) but Ive thought about doing exactly what you did if i needed to do it again. Little peace of mind for me I suppose. Smart guy. Thanks again!
you are more than welcome, I am glad it helped and will help others, please share this video with others so that they can also fix this issue.
Tim hello . Good video , however I believe it would help us viewers if we knew how long the original spring was before you stretched it as well a measurement to tell us how long it was after you stretched it. Because the length of the stretch put on the spring determines pressure . I did see in one of your response comments not to exceed 20 psi on the spring . I understand that statement . And I will not exceed 20psi when I put air to it to check the pins functioning. Still I believe how much stretch you put on that spring would really help . A before stretch measurement and an after stretch spring measurement . Thanks again for the video Tim !
I will keep that in mind for the next one I do on video.
What an incredible solution! Thanks so much for sharing this.
you are so welcome, please share it with people so that they can also fix this issue the same way that is alot more cost effective and simple compared to replacing a part that does not need replacing.
I’m going to try this if the new cam phaser fails, this is the only complaint I’ve from my Camry, took the old “rattling” cam phaser, opened and inside is spotless, no physical damage, no scratches, no deposit, no dirt, pin work fine, I do my oil change every 5k using synthetic Mobil 1 EP my engine also clean inside 🤦♂️THANKS FOR THE VIDEO 👍🏻💪🏻
to date my gear has not rattled ever since I did this its been over 10000 km since then .
@@A2J_Tim definitely I’ll try the spring “trick” , I cranked up my Camry with the second Toyota brand new phaser and the rattling was heard in Paris 🤦♂️I’m speechless… I verified is unlocked and then is locked before installing everything back ☹️
Great Fix! One thing though; I would think turning the engine with the cam is high stress on those parts. much less if you use the crank bolt.
you are correct, the more right way is to turn the crank shaft, but im not that concerned about it as their is alot more force on those cams when the engine is running.
Great solution! How can I recognize that which gear causing the noise during cold start? My rav4 2.0 fuel 2010 year does it recently when the temperature going under 10 Celsius.
it seems to be the intake cam gear across all platforms with this noise.
Great video. is the other vvt sprocket also repairable? The one with the coil spring expsosed on the front?
the exhaust cam gear does not have the same problem as it is a different design.
Wow awesome video man
Great now I get to do it to my 300k miles Camry🙏🏼
What year and model
Thank you for the video. I need to ask you a couple of questions pls: could you please clarify how you identified the location of the spring as related to a bolt head position. since all bolt heads were the same. It is critical that the location of the spring to be at the top when the cover is removed so it doesn't fall out if at the bottom. You said you added a pen spring. Where in gear mechanism did you add the pen spring. Are the stronger springs available anywhere. My last question is; at end of your video you said "if" you want to activate the pin, you introduce air in one port and rock the cam shaft, then its ready to go. Is introducing air in that port a requirement, or is the modification complete without adding the pressurized air. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns. My 2007 Rav4 2.4 L with 207k miles makes same rattle sound, unfortunately.
1. I watched another video of a guy taking it apart.
2. I show where to add the spring in the video if you watch it, I was trying to be a clear as I know how to be.
3. if you are asking about just replacing the spring with a stiffer one, I dont know if or where they are available, this was a solution that I came up with rather than spending hours searching the internet or going to town and talking to every parts store in town which likely would have been futile.
4. I took a few pen springs apart till I found one that fit inside of the factory toyota spring which effectively added more tension helping the factory spring do its job, you can buy cheap pens at any dollar store.
5. you dont need to add air to that port to finish the job, the reason I did that was to verify my work that the spring pin was going to activate like it will in normal operation. The more important part is to make sure the pin locks into place, so rock the engine back and forth by hand in both directions until the pin locks the gear out, this will ensure that the pin is in place for engine start up.
@@A2J_Tim say Tim, before you removed the four bolts on the front plate, how did you actually decide where the spring was located behind the plate. Which of the bolts was the spring closest to, before removing any of the bolts. Thank you.
@@tellsthetruth894 from another youtuber who took a gear apart, I figured out where the spring should be based on stamp or casting marks on the gear, I looked for those casting marks and marked off where I thought the spring should be and I was right. However if you are having difficulty with this I would suggest just removing all the bolts and the plate to see where it is, mark your gear with paint marker or sharpy marker then put one or 2 bolts back in just barely snug then roll the engine over till your spring is in a position like mine in the video so that you have easy access too it.
Thank you very much, I will do that. Much appreciated.
did i just hear "metacle partcles"..lol... great video tho man !!
That is likely what came out of my mouth, but I did mean metal particles, I have mild speech impairment where my words dont match my thoughts and they get lost some where in translation.
@A2J_Tim no worries brotha.. appreciate everything you do helping us out with your channel
its need to be lock position to able to start the engine right? thanks for sharing
That is correct, when you shut the car off the lock pin Engauge's and keeps the cam solid for the next start up, once the engine starts the ecu controls oil pressure flow to the gear to unlock the gear so it can change its timing based on its programed map.
Well no. Its SUPPOSED to be locked, but if that lock pin fails to fully engage for any of the reasons below, engine will still start, but it'll hella rattle.
Weak spring as shown in this video
Poor oil change history, dirty oil deposits making lock pin stick in its bore
Older style cam gears, lock pin too big, as metal heats up it can stop sliding in bore
Older style cam gear, lock pin engagement hole can become ovaled out, as poor quality metal used. Rattles in oversize hole
Hey Tim, Did you ever replaced the camshaft bearing cap oil hole gaskets? I have a new valve cover gasket, but not sure how the other camshaft gasket's condition. i think i'm going to replace it all since i have it opened, just wondering if you did. Thanks for the video, this is super informative.
I did not because it was still soft. but it not a bad idea to get them so you can if they are rock hard, if you dont need them you can always return them as long as the package is not open.
@A2J_Tim sounds good! Hopefully once I button it all up, I won't have to get back in it for a while.
Great job.............. however I would never put those bolts in w/o loctite! Please take off the valve cover and put some loctite on those bolts. (Stress is not the problem, vibration is.)
nah I think I will leave it, I have never seen bolts like that vibrate out that I have tightened in my 20 year career of being a mechanic.
was the space under the timing gear tight enough that you didn't have to worry too much about dropping the bolts inside, or did you have to be really careful? did you reuse the oil tube gaskets and valve cover gasket, or got new ones?
wonder why Toyota doesn't want anyone taking the timing gear apart. the service manual says never to use the timing gear if those 4 small bolts on the cover are ever removed.
1. Yes you have to be very carful not to drop the bolts.
2. I did re use my gasket as it was still good, you will have to judge that for your self based on how hard it is, mine was still soft.
3.I think Toyota wants you to buy a new gear instead of fixing your old gear, thats why they say never to re use it.
@@A2J_Timmanufacturers usually just wants parts replaced, not fixed. That provides consistency of repair. Not have to worry about technicians that aren't as capable. Also part can have other issues, so replacing entire part takes care of other possible updates to the whole thing.
Will a T30 Torx Bit work and does it need to be the Tamperproof Torx Bit?
torx bits are 6 point, these are 5 point bits.
@@A2J_Tim Thank you for pointing that out.
Great solution
Do you know if this will work on a Highlander with 2GRFE 3.5 ?
Also is the stronger spring available as a new part?
if the gear is of similar design which it likely is, it will work. as for the updated part I dont know that for sure.
@@A2J_Timwon't work on 2grfe 3.5L. But something similar might.
See second half of this video, which shows intake gear disassembly:
th-cam.com/video/WSVRH2bl0qs/w-d-xo.html
You'd face several hurdles. Center bolt that attaches gear to cam would have to come off, as the plate you remove is also held on by center bolt.
Then lock pin is at the bottom, can't even see it until you completely disassemble gear. All those little apex seals and their little springs would all have to come out. Chances of none of them falling into engine is nil.
Also, it doesn't really have a tapered pin. So unlikely same fix would work anyway.
But! Looking at linked video, what you might be able to do is remove the entire gear housing, but leave the chain and sprocket in car.
So loosen, but do not remove the 4 odd torx 5 spline bolts. Then barely loosen, do not remove center bolt. Now pry the entire housing away from sprocket plate.
Once main housing free, remove the 4 bolts first, then center bolt. Carefully make sure sprocket stays with cam. There is a locating pin in sprocket that should help it stay with cam. Immediately put the center bolt back in place to hold sprocket, so chain doesn't skip tooth, etc.
Now take housing to bench. Disassemble, careful not to lose apex seals and springs. Do lock pin spring fix. Reassemble, return to engine.
The gotcha is if you can fully remove that center bolt before it contacts timing chain cover. Might have to remove cam caps, lift cam a bit.
That would also require main timing chain slack for the intake sprocket. Exhaust you could probably do this much easier.
But if cam caps have to come off, might as well remove entire gear from cam, leave chain hanging.
@@russelloppenheimer3970 wow they made those ones alot more complicated to get appart.
Is there something I don’t get it …if the phaser gets in a locked position when you turn off the car why when you crank it up next morning it rattles ?
the spring is weak and cant hold the pin in tight enough, the pin itself is a tapered fit as shown in the video, If the spring is too weak the tapered pin walks out of the bore and that is the rattle you hear. Once you put a stronger spring it the tapered pin sits down tighter and prevents the gear from moving until oil pressure comes up and pushes the pin into the spring, after that the ecu has full control over the timing of the gear and can adjust it how its programmed too. the whole purpose of that pin is to keep the gear solid until the oil pressure comes up in the engine after initial start up.
Seems the 2ARFE engine in the 2014 rav4 has a slightly different intake cam gear that can't be serviced while in place. Bummer.
that sux.
Hello I did this in my Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol. the rattling is gone Is it possible that the spring is now too stretched? After starting the engine does not work evenly, errors p0351, p0352, p0340 appeared
No those codes have to do with ignition coils and camshaft position sensor.
is the car running fine? because 351 and 352 would cause misfires and if those coils were not firing it would run really rough, maybe not run at all. 340 is a cam code and if it was unplugged it would not run at all.
you would have had to remove those plugs to remove the valve cover, check your connections. Did you turn the key on or try to crank the engine when stuff was unplugged? if you did, you would flag codes for every thing unplugged.
after starting there is no more rattle but the engine revs fluctuate it does not work properly. I wonder if maybe it is catching some left air. there are no more errors there are sparks on each spark plug.
@@mariuszs.7189 I assure you it is not related to the gear repair, oil bleeds back to the oil pan after the car is shut off and must be repressurized every time you start the car. check your hoses make sure you connected them all properly, a vacuum leak can cause this problem.
If you can't buy a replacement spring I wonder if you could shim the original.
you probably could, but I opted to just ad a spring out of a pen, it fit nicely inside the original spring and added a little bit more tension. you could also take the spring to a hard ware store and find one of similar size with more tension that would work aswell. Just make sure it doesnt exceed 10 psi of pressure that way the piston can move out of the way with oil pressure as its designed too. Oil pressure is likely over 25 psi at idle. and probably above 45 psi when reving above 2k rpm
Would this be on the 2.4ltr and 1.8ltr?
@@GunnersCarHole 1.8, but I'm confident this will work for the 2.4 aswell, I did this on a honda crv with a k24 engine that also had the same rattle, just stretch that spring and the rattle stops.
@@GunnersCarHole 1.8 but would also work for the 2.4
@@GunnersCarHole yes
Do you think this would a toyota 2.5liter engine. My rav 4 is making the same sound on cold starts. Also, what brand of pen did you get the spring from?
yes I think the fix is the same for the rav, as for the pen spring, I just took apart pens till I found one that had a spring that fit inside the factory spring, its only there to add a little bit Of extra tension.
@@A2J_Tim Cool, I'm going to give it a shot. If it works you just saved me $500 plus. I appreciate the info man thanks.
@@jameshanshaw516 if the gear is the same design which it most likely is, It will work..
After 4 months, Does still work until now?
yes it does, hasnt rattled once since I did this repair.
@@A2J_Tim thank you, i will fix my brother in law car tomorrow.
@@DIYCOMMUNITYHACK 0:54 is where I talk about the tool for removing the plate on the cam gear including the size.
Would this work the same on the 2011 camry 4 cyl too?
I dont know for sure, It might if the gear is of the same design which it likely is. if your intake cam gear has a plate with the little bolts that hold the cover on like this one, it will.
@A2J_Tim what's the length and diameter of the spring after it's stretched?
@@amdinside5383 I didnt measure it, I just eye balled it.
@@A2J_Tim Thanks
Where i get new spring from?
I got mine from a click pen, lol.
I have the problem on a 2009 corolla. The issue is slightly different as to when it reaches nominal operating temps, that is when it starts to rattle. It gets fairly louder while driving. It started out kinda intermittent then I noticed it staying consistent. Would trying this technique possibly help?
no, your noise is not related to this problem, when the engine is running oil pressure releases the pin and the gear can move where ever the engine control module tells it to. So if you have a rattle while its running and warm your noise is likely related to your timing chain is stretched and you need a new one or your timing chain tensioner is not doing its job and you need a new one of those, either way get it looked at before it causes damage.
@@A2J_Tim I've changed the tensioner, found old one cracked around the body. Glad I changed it. Also replaced both intake and exhaust vvti actuator valves. Changed the chain top slack guide. Chain seems ok as to timing marks all align properly when I was in there doing all that before I decide to try cam phasers. Doesn't seem to be lifter related. Oil was changed and all else seemed ok.
Engine is quiet otherwise in all rpm ranges except when in gear and under load. It's strange. Performance is on part as to not slack in power other than at idle somewhat.
@@roytritsch6273 its hard to say with out hearing it in person.
so there is 2 gear which one I should fix some people change the intake gear and you fix the second gear could you clarify?
I fixed the intake cam gear, that is the one that makes noise, its the common problem on vvti engines.
@@A2J_Tim one more question sir I have the same exact sound when I start the engine on cold start but if start the engine after during the day when it is a little warm up it will make other sound less intense gargling_like sound for afew seconds dose it relate to the same problem?
@@abdullahmalak2671 not likely related, gargling sound could be related to air in the cooling system, in your heater core.
@@A2J_Tim the thing that make me suspicious its related is when I start the engine when the engine is cold it just make the sound on the video no thing more but afterwards when then engine is relatively warm when i start the engine it make sound for afew seconds until the rpm is low however the sound its not gargling_like per se its sound like the head of engine is not soft or it is not lubricated very well
@@abdullahmalak2671 you should do a video on it so I can take a listen.
Will this work on a 2.5l scion tc
if it has the same style cam gear it will.
Its a 2ar-fe
@@chaserobins1788 same engine, so yes it will work.
You said apply air. WHERE do I apply the air?????
the port my finger is closest too when I point.
will this work the same for 1zz fe(2005 corolla)? I have the same dreaded cold start rattle
It most likely will, I havent done it to that engine yet, but its probably the same design.
@@A2J_Tim update! so i did it to my 2005 corolla and it kinda worked. It used to rattle almost every start up, but now it only rattles on cold start. Any recommendation? I did the exact same thing, stretched the spring and added a pen spring.
@@Zaikclon950 you may possibley have another rattle not related to the cam gear, you might have a tension-er gone bad or going bad.
did the piston move freely in the bore or was it a bit sticky?
@@A2J_Tim So i actually replaced the tensioner first to try and fix the rattle. When i rotate the cam, theres a bit of resistance in certain position
@@Zaikclon950 its possible that you have a lifter that is bleeding down when its shut off over night, and fills back up once its running, but usually a lifter will tick for awhile before it stops ticking, Its hard to say with out seeing the car in person to identify if its the same tick or not.
Anybody know the size of the spring
I took a few pens apart to find one that fit inside of the factory one, pens are super cheap.