1950s Military Radiation Survey Meter (Geiger Counter?) | Can I get it working?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we're going to be looking at a Radiation Survey Meter called a "Meter Survey Radiac No.2". It was made in England in 1955 by a company called E.K. Cole Ltd. It contains a delicate vacuum tube, and needs special batteries which are no longer in production.
It was listed on eBay as "untested" and "for parts or not working".
Let's take it apart, have a look inside and see if we can get it working again!
Link to the meter's illustrated 1955 user manual.
archive.org/de...
I'm not an expert, but I do enjoy trying to fix things.
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#electronics #electronicsrepair #repair #vintageelectronics
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meter survey radiac no2 testing
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military radiation survey meter
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Colin Furze's underground tunnel and garage FTW!!
33:03 shows the roof is curved across the narrow sides.. Furze's garage curves from the front to the back.. It's either his garden bunker with all the gubbins taken out, or somebody else is building a bunker too!
Yea its not Colins as the roof in this video is RHS and Colin's is 50x50 box.@@donvito1973
😉👏👏👏
That's what it looks like huh?
@@donvito1973yeah, tunnel + bunker with the floor lining removed ;)
For one who admits not having a good grasp of maths, you are certainly doing more than those who do!!
😂😂😂Thanks 👍
Excellent battery remedy, I wouldn't have thought of button cells. Was the meter light burned, didn't see it light up. You're right about keeping history alive, too many crazies out there wanting to erase it. Thanks for the retro repair and entertaining ending, very interesting and educational. See ya soon.
Thanks Terry 👍
Being British, the meter lamp is actually in the case, not the dial. So the lamp will not illuminate without the case in place.
Wire lacing used waxed cotton cord, functional & beautiful when done correctly. Haven't done any lacing since the early 80's when cable ties appeared
I wondered what it was called. Thanks for letting me know 👍
Same 👍
Nicknamed cat gut😅, 1981, part of c&g 224 on my course
I did my city and guilds in Watford and had to do loom lacing, 😊
Taught that too, still have a roll of it, but it's black with I think a fibreglass core.
Best repair channel on TH-cam.
Nobody even comes close.
👏👏👏👏
Thank you 👍
True dit…❤. What a piece of kit. Wow
Thanks 👍
Another good solution to the battery problem would be small boost-buck converters. You can get them for around £2 and set a constant voltage.
Silica gel beads can be dried in a low temperature oven and reused.
Thanks for the suggestion 👍I had thought about a small boost converter, but then the problem is how do you switch it off? as it would be running constantly if it were just placed in the battery compartment. You would then have to mess about with the wiring (which isn't a huge deal) but I wanted to keep it as original as possible. The battery hardly uses any current, as it's only for biasing the grid, and the original was supposed to last 500 hours of use. I did use a boost converter in the old miners lamp that I revived and made it into USB-C, and then we explored an abandoned mine with it! The video is on here too 🙂👍
Wonderful old piece of kit, built like a tank! Time to get one like it, world has gone mad, once again.
Yes agree with all of that 👍😂😂
You can often get rounded out socket screws removed by tapping a torx bit into it.
Thanks 👍A few other people mentioned the same so I'll bear that in mind 🙂
Starting to binge watch what I have missed to find you have turned into a mad scientist and detonated a dirty bomb. Not seen anything on the news yet, must be keeping it hush hush to avoid panic 🙂
😂😂😂😂😂
Ingenious ! I'm a Yank and have been using the term Valve instead of Tube in Honor of our Queen's Peasants!
😂😂Thanks 👍
I love those little Chinese spot welders! I have one and I’ve used it for years to repair power tool battery packs.
It's not bad with the thin strip that came with it, I did try it on a Milwaukee battery using the original battery strip which was a about double the thickness, but it didn't work on those very well.
You not only a fixer of everything, but also a movie director as well, well done another awesome video. Really😂 enjoyed it.
Thank you, it's actually the first time I've ever done anything like that before 😂😂😂
i can only agree!!
@4:00 I always try to cut a slit in the bolts with a dremel or cutting disc...worth trying a flat blade first before drilling out ;-)
Thanks for the tip 👍
Same here works well. Also if you have to drill it, use a reverse drill bit they work it out as you drill and can save you a lot of frustration. 😵💫
That is a real cool piece of history. The changing dial is a piece of art.
Totally agree 👍
Ingenious ideas for the 30V battery, I had no idea how you were going to do that. BTW I would have gone for the same wire 😂
😂😂😂😂😂I was needing your help! 😂😂 what did you think of it? I sent you an email about it...
@@BuyitFixit Just replied now Mick, sorry for the slow response. Another super busy week. I enjoy all your videos and it is a shame the views are not higher on this one given the extra work you put in with the bunker bit. That's YT for you!
@Mymatevince Thanks mate I'll have a look now 👍
And I replied 🙂👍
9:08 that is the high impedance circuit, its very sensitive. You can test the function by exposing the ion chamber with one of those mercury tube UV lights for low range or a smoke detector button for high range. The tube is an electrometer tube, the gain is insanely high, measures charge like a very high quality mosfet.
Thanks for that 👍
It's so interesting watching your videos seeing how you repair everything. From a guy who can't even repair a simple microwave 😅
Thanks 👍Strangely enough I was looking at an industrial microwave for someone who was at my friends farm last week. If it's the old style one, there's only a transformer, capacitor, diode, HV fuse and magnetron. Please be very careful as the voltage CAN KILL. Usually the diode or fuse is the culprit, in this one I looked at I think the magnetron had failed.
For your 30V supply, I'd've gone with LiPo's. Interesting piece. 👍
I would have thought LiPos wouldn't really be needed. The old alkaline batteries (9v and 30v) according to the manual are supposed to last 500 hours of use as they only use micro amps. The main draw is the D Cells as they are used for the lamp and heater in the triode.
That explains all the smoke I've been seeing in the Eastern sky. lol One source of radiation you can get that is still around but starting to disappear is an old clock with the glowing hands and numbers.
😂😂😂😂
Lovely piece of history, thanks for sharing with us.
Cheers Brian 👍
Cool device. I have a couple of old geiger counters too. One of them I managed to fix.
Nice one 👍
The movement of the needle when moving the instrument through air is normal if the circuit is not shielded. Static electric fields are everywhere, and an electrometer circuit like this is more than prone to detect them, or to be more detailed, detect their changes if exposed to such a field. I suppose, if you close the casing then these fluctuations are mostly gone.
Thanks for that 👍
That's an amazing find and interesting 'restore it' video. I bet your old school science dept. would love seeing that and maybe they've got a small sample for you to test it on 🤔
Thanks 👍My old School and Science Dept are long since demolished 🙂
You clearly spent many hours on research with this device. My hat goes off to you on this one my friend.
Thanks Fred, I'm definitely having a look at your device this week 👍
Hi Bud. Another great informative vid, was that mad Colin's bunker/Garage. Cheers. Ian
Thanks Ian👍no, but let's say a close relation 😂😂😂
A good bit of history and saved and the ending was very good 😂😂👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks Sean 👍
Wow well presented Mick, lovely unit and still working what a bonus, really enjoyed it, I used to work for Graseby Dynamics Limited (Watford) they were the company that supplied personal and vehicle ‘Agent Detectors’ for the MOD, Army etc, we would get the used units strip them down and empty them out, they are then washed for 3 days and then dried for 5 days ( something like that ), then refilled with charcoal granules and sealed. We weren’t allowed to use deodorants or aftershaves, also we had to wash our hand before entering the department otherwise an alarm will sound, it was great I still have the small clock I received from them 😊
Cheers Gary, I did put a bit of time and effort into this one. Pity the algorithm doesn't think so.
@@BuyitFixit you did I was impressed with the bunker bit lol 😂
Brilliant vid! Love to see that old tech. It really was built to last.
Thanks, it reminds me of the kitchen aid mixer I looked at on here too, that thing was 36 year old and looked brand new inside (apart from the old grease which I replaced) I did a couple of adjustments while I was in there but the cogs were beautiful!
Super cool ! Saving a piece of history is never a bad thing ! Really liked the little movie at the end of the video !
Thank you 👍🙂
The string used to bundle the wires is called lacing.
Thanks for that 👍
Really cool detector and I loved the ending 😅
Thanks 👍I'm a little disappointed TH-cam didn't push this one as much as some of my other videos as I put a fair bit of effort into this one compared to some of my others🤷♂️
@@BuyitFixit probably because it’s a Geiger counter. There’s a relatively small group of people that are interested in the subject.
Really interesting! you can regenerate the silica gel by removing it and putting it in an oven at 95-100° C for 12 hours. The color should return to blue. I know the 9v and 30 V batteries are expensive but this grid operates on microamps so they should last for a long time.
I did try 120c for about an hour but perhaps it just needed longer. The cr2032 and the 9v PP3 should last a long time as you rightly say they only use microamps. In the manual it said the original batteries should last around 500 hours of operation.
@@BuyitFixit yes, but you need to dry the whole assembly, including the paper and front ring.
by just drying the section with the beads, the paper is not being dried, so it will stay pink-it may turn blue after a while anyway, since the beads will dry the paper.
Class ending, love the video, keep them coming
Cheers mate 👍
Humidity Indicator Paper (Cobalt chloride free) ia available from Johnson Papers. The old pink stuff you have there is harmful hence the cobalt free version. I really enjoyed your video. thank you.
Thanks👍and thanks for the info on the indicator paper!
@@BuyitFixit As long as you don't ingest it, the cobalt paper is not a big deal(but DO wash your hands after touching it)(or wear gloves).
If you heat the whole assembly, the paper will dry along with the silica gel beads, and will turn blue again.
Actually, it may turn blue anyway after a while, since the beads will dry the paper.
Here in the states the EXIT signs (in case of fire) located in schools, churches and businesses contain some sort of radioactive material for use as a perpetual power supply. We installed them in a condo once that had no power in the entry ways and they were all marked radioactive. This might be a supply source for you to test the device.
A cheap dessication agent to use is epsom salt baked out till it is crumbly like chalk. It will even pull the absorbed water out.❤
I wonder if these valve devices continued to be used into the mid eighties because transistors can be damaged by the electromagnetic pulse produced by atomic weapons but valves are unaffected? Or maybe the kit just worked, the quality of the piece is amazing.
I'm not to sure on that, but totally agree it is very well made 👍
Great fun !!! Colin I reckon, nice bit of kit to keep awesome....cheers!
Cheers Andymouse 👍 Colin wasn't involved but I did speak to him a couple years back 😉
...and a beutuful piece of kit that meter is. Good quality old stuff.
Yes indeed 👍
Fascinated by your Wi-Fi connected radiation detector device!! Will look for details :)
I'm pretty sure it was based on one of the schematics and software here: sites.google.com/site/diygeigercounter/technical/archives although I did modify the software myself to support some of the features that were missing. Seems there is software on the page that other people have written too. It was around 6 or 7 years ago when I built it so I can't remember all of the details.
If I remember my "Community Advisor" training from the '80's the issue survey meters needed a heck of gamma source to produce much reading. They are designed for the levels of radiation present post a nuclear strike. At its most sensitive this meter measures up to 3 Rad/hr. In humans the LD50 within a month is a dose of about 500 Rad or approx a week of exposure at 3 Rad/hr. The UK background *annual* dose is about 0.27 Rad or 0.000003 Rad/hr.
Bottom line: If a substance gives you much of a reading on the 3 Rad/hr scale get away from it, fast!
Thanks Dave 👍yes that was pretty much the conclusion I came across on the internet 🙂👍
I would try using a vacuum pump to dry it out. That’s how they do it in refrigeration. I don’t know if they make a chamber that they could hook up to you could put that into. Just a thought!!
Thanks 👍I've been meaning to get one for a while (probably will at some point).
Very cool ending
Cheers! 👍
Old watches with the luminescent white/green are radioactive just slightly, try them. Learnt that in school when I was a pup...
Thanks 👍Unfortunately I don't have any of those old glow in the dark watches :(
You can heat the desiccant in an oven to cook out the moisture, it will turn blue We used to do it on our Andrews elliptical microwave waveguide dry air systems years ago when I worked in the electronics group for Big Oil.
I did try it for an hour at 120c but it didn't seem to do much.
I guess I commented too soon. I got to the part where you had try to bake. We used to have cans of the material, once a month we would visit the land-based communications microwave system to do system checks and replace the desiccant if needed. That has been a long time ago, back in the 1970's.@@BuyitFixit
The pink indicator is probably cobalt chloride paper. You can buy it as strips if you could put it in somehow ... Dry out the silica at low temperature (say 50/60 degrees) for a long time rather than the 100 degrees suggested elsewhere as the heat may damage the paintwork on the cannister. Let the unit dry then the marble should be more than good enough to give a decent reading both gamma and beta - just don't keep moving the meter about! It's possible that age and damp has reduced the resistance of the range resistors ... good luck with testing them though! It may be worth using a clean dry cloth to gently clean the surfaces of the glass tubes in case there's any surface contamination as that will present a lower resistance and effectively short out the electrometer input (the main reason why you must not touch them).
Thanks for that Andy 👍
Some smoke detectors use a small radioactive element for detection might be worth a try
Use all the time for rad training. Try to find older gas lantern mantles. Contain thorium.
Yes the old smoke detectors used Americium 241 I think it was. I actually got an expired smoke detector from my neighbour but the more modern smoke detectors seem be optical these days and just use an LED and photodiode to detect smoke particles.
@@BuyitFixitYep Americum 241, its principle decay product is alpha particles (helium nuclei). I don't think this meter can detect alpha particles at all.
You are truly a god, do not underestimate yourself ever….
Awww thanks 👍I'm just a normal bloke, who like fixing sh&t 😂😂😂😂
incredible coincidence for people who've also recently seen colin's radon video
I've not seen that one yet, I'll have to check it out 👍
Once you have the unit properly reassembled, your fingers will have little affect on the meter, although you MIGHT see a tiny bit if you have the beta window open and you put your finger right next to it-this will be caused by static electricity.
Also, I believe that for the beta window to operate properly, you may need to leave the bottom cover off(check the manual though).
Nice Vid, the Silica beads can be dried out we used to have cabinets of the stuff when I was at the REME in the 70's.
Thanks 👍
The switch is called a wafer switch, which I remember form the old 405 valve TV tuners.
Ah yes! I remember now you mention it 👍
Ok , my first comment before I forget is about the 413 battery , They do make a affordable version out there ...... Those are the batteries that go in my Triplett 630 volt ohm meters , I just use the D battery in my one working meter , the 30 V is for using the higher ohm range .... anyhow back to the video....
Cheers Cajun👍
10:16 It is called lacing cord - cable management used to be an art!
Thanks for that 👍
@@BuyitFixit You're welcome - it is still possible to buy lacing cord from RS despite the availability of spiral wrap, heat shrink tubing and more types of cable tie than seem necessary. This can only mean that there are still people who know _the magic knot_ and can still make harnesses the cheap and easy way 😁
Didn't know Colin was a mate, Mr furze for the win
I've only spoken to him a couple of times 😉
04:00 i have lucky remove rounded bolts with a left handed drill bits, when they bite, the screw uncrew.
Thanks for the tip👍🙂
Great stream, loved the ending, thanks Mick 😁
Glad you enjoyed it👍
A very When the Wind Blows, or even Threads vibe...
In the imortal words of Douglas Adams, "if the world was going to end, shouldn't we lie down or put a paper bag over our head or something."
Thanks 🙂👍
4:04 I watched a tip about stripped cross head/hex bolts once. They suggested getting a bicycle inner tube, cutting a bit off and putting that between the bolt and the screwdriver/hex. Not sure if it would have worked here 🤔
Thanks for that. I'll try to remember that tip 👍
That ending was so good!
Thanks 👍
Jesus your dedication lengedary ❤❤
Aww thank you! I did try with this one 👍
Very nicely done and thought out! Cheers
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi You can rejuvenate the desiccant by just placing it in a 350-degree F oven if it is not completely dead, make sure to do it with ventilation. you can use a Colman lantern mantel bag, they had I think thorium impregnated in them, also Fiesta ware for a source.
Rich
Thanks Rich, yes the old lantern mantels were indeed impregnated with thorium. I think it still wouldn't be high enough to trigger these. I did read that if the needle moved you needed to evacuate the area, so probably a lot more than a gas mantle! I did try to rejuvenate the desiccant but with little success.
Great piece of history that. The bunker looks very familiar.. Did Colin make you tea?
😂😂😂I did email Colin, but this bunker isn't his, although it is pretty much identical...
That is cool, definitely doc emmett brown vibes
Thanks 👍🙂
Hi. I've been involved with rad protection for the last 15 years. I've seen some old instruments in my time but never this. Surprised it's measured in roentgens as we all use microsevierts, millisevierts and sevierts etc etc. Guessing it's an early version ion chamber. I know in the 50s-60s we moved onto ro2s which became the norm dose meter, Which are ion chambers for beta/gamma and are still used to this day. You are going to have some difficulty testing it I'm afraid because if I'm guessing right you will need a decent strontium jig or a gamma jig that has a little bit of a kick to fill the chamber. Which isn't available to the general public. This instrument isn't very good reading a point source but would be more used for general area dose rates. I will speak to some of the lads on Monday an try find out more info on it because I'm working we're the Instruction manual refers to. 👍
Oh nice 👍 and thank you kindly for the information 🙂
Haha😂 that ending was brilliant 😂😂
Thanks 👍🙂
Love your videos, you give a lot ot info when making them
Thank you 👍
Thoriated Tig welding tungstens (red tip) contain radioactive particles, if they can be picked up by your meter. Glow-in-the-dark paint on old watches are also radioactive if I recall.
Yes, I did read on a forum when doing research but apparently it's still in orders of magnitude less than needed to set this off 😂😂😂😂👍
The radiation button from a smoke detector will activate this meter if you have it facing the open side of the ion chamber with the unit outside the case (high range) a uv mercury tube lamp like one of thise phone sanitizers will work for low and middle ranges. A dental x ray unit will test all 3 ranges depending on distance with it complete in the case.
With the gamma plate removed, a 1uCi Americium 241 source from a smoke detector will activate it because the ion chamber is an open type.
How is the UV tube able to trigger the ion chamber?@@christopherleubner6633
Spot on, old son! The amount of radiation intensity that these meters were designed to measure is truly awesome by the safety standards of today!
@@BuyitFixit
Uranium emits mainly alpha particles, which would not get through into the chamber.
Thanks for that. I did try it without the casing so would have thought the particles would have made it in.
That wasn't Colin Furzes bunker in the beginning was it ?
Exactly what I was thinking. Definetly is, you can tell by the construction of it!
Or a close relation 😉
Fascinating. This farming malarky really is dangerous.
Oh yes 😂
I would be interested to see a video on the geiger counter you build with schematics.
As Baldrick would say… I have a cunning plan..
😂😂😂😂👍
*8{\* no need for spare batteries. lol Cool Rigging of power adaption. Let's All hope Only Marbles move the needle.
Thanks 👍
You could weight desicant before and after dry
Good thinking! Thanks for that 👍
How tech has changed, they come in packages the size of a multimeter now with bags of data displayed on a screen.
Yes, I've seen those on ebay and Aliexpress 👍
An old glow in the dark watch or clock may emit some radiation. A dessicant tube like that may take 4+ hours to fully dry IF it's silica gel, other dessicants were used that were one time use.
Not sure if even a watch would have triggered this thing. When I was doing some research they said if the needle moves you need to evacuate immediately 😂😂😂
A radio ham could use this for detection sporadic E signals whilst transmitting on high power
I was wondering, I thought he might just like interesting electronic kit as most hams are into electronics also.
Brilliant video and loved the ending 😎 keep up the good work 💥
Thank you so much 😁
Wow, 15,000M ohm is 15 Giga ohm. I didn't know resistors with a value that high even existed. No wonder they're in glass tubes.
Next time you have stripped out allen fixings hammer a torx bit into them and it will often give you enough purchase to get them out 🙂
Thanks for the tip. I was reluctant to start hammering it, as when I did a bit research on them it said it contained delicate valves / glass resistors 👍
yea that did cross my mind too especially as its die cast aluminium. @@BuyitFixit
Push in the torx bit gently with a vise or shop press.
Good idea 👍
Looming and lacing on the wires.
Thanks 👍
Believe it or not, it may be worth trying your geiger counter with a banana!. Bananas contain a measurable (but not dangerous!) amount of potassium 40.
I did find something mentioned in a forum where that was also suggested but it was said that the unit required activity in orders of magnitude higher.
after a close look that's no Colin Furze's bunker, tunnel or garage, the curve of the tunnels and the placement of the steel beams is not the same, but i am really curious to know ho has this bunker
Very observant 👍
Get your self an old ionizing smoke detector and use the Americium 241 source from it to test your unit
I did try. I got an expired one from a neighbour as I thought the same, but it seems they did away with ionizing smoke detectors some time ago, and most are optical. They are even banned now in a lot of European countries it seems.
Battery reversed?
Yes, the -30v is used to supply the grid to stop the flow of electrons.
10:12, its called cable lacing.
Thanks for that 👍
Isn't the ion chamber comparable to a capacitor in some way? Since condenser microphones compares the capacitance between some terminals
I guess it would be, those old style tuning capacitors in radios were just metal plates separated by an air gap.
I seem to remember they used those 30v's in telephony as well, as the GPO used all sorts of weird and wacky cells and I am sure I saw them in the army for maintaining a field phone network amongst things, Vince would be your man for that one... not so sure Colin would be though as he's more a plumbery sort o' chap and water tends not to need 30v cells lol
Thanks for the info, yes Colin used to be a plumber 🙂I usually watch most of his videos (as you might be able to tell 😂😂)
Some VOM's also used them for the high ohm ranges(for example, most Triplett 630's)Simpson preferred 22.5 volt batteries though.
try a set of the rounded allen key sockets . love the old mayford ml7 in the workshop
Thanks 👍Interesting I've not heard of those before. I've just had a look. Thanks for the advice 🙂👏👏
I would have got 30 V out of some tiny AliExpress DC/DC converter.
I had thought of that, but then it meant wiring into the sealed compartment, or having it running all of the time. Also the noise from the boost converter might have interfered with the reading.
Nice work bro❤
Thank you so much 👍
Smoke detectors are a good source of radiation sources
They used to be, until they changed them to being optical these days. I even got one from the neighbours that had expired but it was the optical type.
Say hi to Colin for me :P
I've not spoken to him for a while.. 😉
You did not say why the 2020 9-volt, did not fit in the 1950s era 9-volt compartment. Were 9 volt batteries a different shape back then? Maybe this will come up in future project.
The 9v volt battery used in this was almost identical to the 30v battery the was pictured, not the standard 9v PP3 type that is in use today.
Tig welding tungsten rods are radioactive, perhaps they may trigger this meter.
What about using an ionisation smoke detector to test it, would that be enough to trigger it? Plus easy to get hold of them.
I had thought of that, but it seems they aren't as easy to get hold of these days. I even got an old one from a neighbour but they seem to all be optical sensing now. It seems the ionisation smoke detectors are even banned now in some countries.
The red wire 😱😱😱😳😳
😂😂😂😂😂👍
suspiciously the ending looked a LOT like colin furze bunker project....
It does look very similar 😂