Don’t forget to gap spark plugs to .028” when running points. Only electronic ignitions run .040” Also I have a maintenance video of the flyweight assembly on my TH-cam channel if anyone needs it!
@@greasesgarage Electronic ignitions have a higher output discharge. They are modern. A bigger gap on the plugs insures a more complete burn of the combustion stroke. Points ignition can only jump the gap that the condenser can put out which on Harley’s is .027”-.030”. I know it may be strange to set your plugs gap that small but if you’re running points, you should. People think that because they have an Evo that it calls for .040” like the factory manual says. That’s true for stock ignition, however if you’re converting to points you use a service manual from a bike that runs points, like the older brother Shovelhead. Piston bore size, valve size, rod stroke, etc does not dictate the size gap you run on plugs.. only ignition system dictates that gap. Also you should change your stock 3ohm coil to a points friendly 5ohm coil. Everything will play nice together that way. If you’re really a stickler you could even swap plug wires out for solid core wires (like copper core) that are made to run with points systems. Good video though nice job friend!
@@dropthathammer really appreciate the response brotha! I do have a 5ohm coil as I had heard the points needed it but I will have to try that smaller gap. The more you know!
Tip from a kick only pro of 52. Always follow thru with the kick even when it fires. There’s a kicker disengagement at the bottom of the kick to prevent kick back and injuries. Please don’t do the bounce kick. On your rapid return, your kick gear is engaged. Subject to engine kicking back on you if it misfires.
This is a great tip, this being my first kicker bike I have that bad habit of letting it go quickly if it doesn’t fire. Working on retraining the brain now haha
Yup, many years ago my panhead threw me on a kick back. I landed on the ground writhing in pain. No kidding, true story. Follow through no matter what.
I am a total noob and this breakdown of what it is, how it works, then how to put it on is exactly what I need. Love the podcast and stoked to follow the channel.
I've been waiting on a video like this for a couple years now. I want a kicker backup for my Evo and simplicity as far as wiring and ignition. I bought all the points components to have on me in case my current electronic ignition crapped out 300 miles from the house on a late Sunday night and I needed a quick and cheap roadside fix to get me home.
Smart thinking man! If you put them in and set the timing then marked the plate you’d be in real good shape to toss them in quickly in a pinch and get home without have to static time on the road
The electronic modoule on my 1984 Softail died without warning in 1992. At the time, in order to repair it, I had to "upgrade" to the then current electronic ignition. $500 in 1992 might as well have been $500,000 for me (college student). A Blue Streak points conversion kit was $50. I made the decision to "go retro" and I ran those points for 11 years WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS! When my 1999 Softail had an electronic module failure, I already had a new conversion kit on the shelf waiting for just such an opportunity. My 1999 now sports points ignition and I am very happy. My 1984 Softail is currently being rebuilt and it will also sport Blue Streak points again. ETA: My 84 Softail has a 4 speed with kicker and I never had any problems using the kicker with the electronic ignition. I love the music made by a Big Twin running drag pipes and points ignition.
What an awesome story man, I love to hear this! Points life is a simple life and I’m stoked to hear you had good experiences with yours! Let me ask you a question (because maybe I’m installing mine wrong) How are you attaching your condenser to the points on the blue streaks? What put me off to them was that I couldn’t remove the condenser on the side of the road without having to remove the points plate because that screw is on top of the points. Am I doing that wrong? Or do you just mark your timing spot and take the points out on the side of the road if you need to? Thanks brotha
Been around bikes since the early 70s, good video, I was told by a automotive engineer years ago that if you understand tuning points, you can make more power with em,, they had to show the e p a , that they were working on smog
I'm that guy....my 82 shovel's converted to points for 37 years for the same reason you're converting, but my 86 evo fl is ultima electronic. I carry both a dyna pickup & mechanical weights set up, and an extra ultima. But I also carry 50 lbs of tools and spare parts. Enough to do a top end or final drive belt. Nothing wrong with points. Never had an issue (with some regular maintenance) other than some failed condenser's. Cheap china or mexico made condenser's are the biggest problem today....good luck and keep on wrenching!
A couple thoughts if you don't mind. Electronic ignitions turn a transistor off and on to mimic the action of the points. A popular misconception is that electronic produces a "hotter" spark. Bullshit. The advantage of electronic is there is no maintenance. Once set, the timing is always spot on. Points have a rubbing block that wears. If you keep up with maintenance that is not a problem. You are correct about carrying parts for roadside repairs. Points rarely fail, but electronic failures can be the module or the sensor or both. Several hundred dollars bouncing around in your bags is inferior to emergency point reparigging"ir parts. Hell, years ago my moving contact arm broke. Stranded across the street from a junkyard I stole points out of an old car and after some "rigging" I was on my way. Cool video , grease.
Funny you mention the spark. Another comment here detailed how the points actually produce the “hotter” spark and that younger people today are sold BS from e ignition companies. I’m too young to know the days when points were the standard but they’re just to easy and reliable for me I can’t see a reason to take them out. I still get a few haters each week saying how stupid I am to use them haha Thanks for the comment and for checking out the channel 🙏🏼
I'm mainly considering points because a new single fire coil cost like $180 plus I think I need to replace the dyna 2ki ignition anyways, once the bike gets hot it acts funky. Points either work or don't lol. Thanks for being able to explain things so thoroughly and make sense to my pea brain
I appreciate you letting me know it helped man! Glad to hear that it came through as easy to understand. Points are totally worth a shot and always a great backup to have on hand even if you don’t switch over right away
One of the better aspects of points for me is that when they begin to wear, they let you know by degraded performance. You get a fair warning that things aren't right. When my electronic oignition died, it just died without any warning. That happened over 30 years ago and I still remember that long trudge home in the rain through the rolling hills of North West Arkansas.
@@Rif_Leman this is so true, when mine weren’t right I definitely knew it. Specifically at the top end. I was getting tons of breakup at highway speeds and at high revs
What kills most people trying to run electronic ignitions is the dead revs. They all come programmed with 3 dead revs. Which means the plugs wont fire for 3 revolutions of the motor. So when people prime, then key on and kick three times they are likely flooded before the plugs fire. You have to get/make the programming cable and set the dead revs to zero. This allows the plugs to fire immediately. I do this for all my kick bikes and they are all one kick bikes. Points for back up is a great idea though.
@@greasesgarage i dont even do prime kicks anymore. A couple squirts and kick with key on. Unless the bikes have been sitting they are easily 1-2 kick bikes. I’ll happily reprogram peoples ignitions too. Ultima and dyna 2000i’s are the ones i have the cable/software for.
I’ve run points for 50 years. I’ve tried several electronic ignition that claimed to be great for kick. They never worked. However, I tried a “Rawhide Electronic Ignition” system for Shovelheads. I’ve got to say, it really woke my bike up. I still carry my point plate with me though.
I’ve been curious about those, glad to hear you had a good experience with it. Maybe I can do a side by side comparison on that vs points in my bike in the future
THIS is a good video on how to time a cone shovelhead or evo.... every video i see fails to mention that you have to advance the mechanism if you're going to time it to the advance mark on the flywheel. good job.
Great video. Another reason to go points: When I teach people how to wrench on stuff, electrical is always the most intimidating, and points with a minimal chopper wiring harness is like the training wheels. You can go all fancy electronics later, but you are building the foundation of basic electrical theory, so you have a chance of figuring out the more complex stuff, hah. Also, the central bolt that comes in those kits is garbage, they snap right where the threads part meets the unthreaded part. And they are a weird thread too, so they are hard to find at the hardware or auto parts store. I think it's 10-32 thread, but doesn't matter, you CAN get a very nice socket head cap screw, that is just the right size, from any Husqvarna dealer, it's the carb hold down bolt for a Husqvarna 181 and 288 family of saws. It's an older saw but they are a popular saw to hotrod so you can get the parts easy. The backing plate and points are the same as a Chevy 250 straight six truck engine, from 60's to 70's, so if you can find a mechanical advance used cheap, you can convert for under $20, I can't remember which mechanical advance works, maybe an iron head sportster, but check the forums, I'm not 100% on that. I have MS, so my memory is getting dodgy even though I'm only 40, hah.
What an awesome reply! Tons of great info in here man thank you 🙏🏼 totally agree, if you can wire up a simple bike, adding additional circuits later on feels much more approachable and easier to understand. I think people often get sucked into the “performance” aspect of things and feel the need to complicate the wiring but better to get started with something you can understand. I’ll have to look for one of those bolts because I definitely agree the one that comes in the kit isn’t great. I’d love to have a spare on hand. I’ve heard this about the Chevy points. Many people use the blue streaks because most parts stores will carry them and they fit this application. I just don’t care for the way they mount because you can’t the condenser out without removing the points completely. Just a nitpick though, they function fine
@@greasesgarage yeah, where's the performance if you can't fix your own bike and are doing the walk of shame pushing it down shoulder of the road? Lol. The old school guys who taught me how to wrench all liked blue streaks too, but I get wanting to be able to pop them on easier. Only thing I've had fail in points ignitions is the spring that holds the points closed on cheap points, they heat treat them too hard or use too cheap an alloy, and the snap, the other is the wire that goes from the points to the coil on motor designs that vibrate a lot, like a Harley, hah. The wire work hardens and snaps. If you know anybody who works on model A fords, they have an on the fly adjustable distribu-lator, so their points wires snap too, so they found a source of wire that's has many more strands of finer wire, sorta like difference between a pro welders welding leads and a cheap battery cable, the welding leed feels like a noodle in comparison, hah. And, because it's marketed to model A guys, it comes in cool 1930's style cloth outer cover.
@@greasesgarage any of the venders for Ford model A parts has it, I think I saw it at that Austin Texas chopper parts shop, revival cycles, or revival choppers has it. On the other end of the spectrum from that sexy high strand count wire, by having a set of points with me, we once got my buddies bike going with points and a piece of fence wire wrapped in electrical tape when his ignition module bricked on us out in the desert of Idaho. In a funny case of the fickle finger of fate flipping me off, between when I posted the last comment and this one, my ignition module on my basket case 1996 sportster S died, I'd JUST gotten it running, lol. I run the electronical stuff when it's working, cause I can get an extra 5mpg vs. Points, and I'm cheap, hah, but that was just mean, I might be a points only guy now. Sure glad I had a setup already, so I can just pop them in, instead of waiting a week for a set in the mail. No factory ignition modules available for the S models, so I would be looking at a $$$ go fast aftermarket style, if I didn't know how to swap to points.
I changed my 84 Iron Head Sportster to point ignition when the electronic module failed. On the Sportster I had to change the coil because the points ignition uses a different coil. And I also changed the plugs as points ignition use different plugs with a different gap. If you go back to a shovel head that used points ignition you will find the right coil. It will make your kicker work much better. Great self explanatory video on how to change it over. My Sportster ran much better with points ignition although my gas mileage went down as the electronic ignition does advance the timing farther when cruising on the highway. I have a 99 Softail Custom now and may change it over to points as you can fix it. Simplicity of the Kettering system works. One other thing. And I noticed it right away on yours. Points ignition are retarded at idle which makes the EVO sound the same as a Shovel Head. I added a switch to the vacuum switch on mine so I can retard the timing. Drives the Twin cam guys crazy.
Very cool! Didn’t realize that about the idle. And yes a 5ohm coil is what you need for points vs the 3 ohm that would typically come on an electronic ignition factory bike, I swapped mine over when I did the conversion. However, it does run with the 3, I’m told it will just eventually ruin it so I made the switch. As for the plugs, I’m told the gap must be smaller. Same plugs I had in from the other ignition but a smaller gap
I could tell right away when you started your engine that it was idling with the spark fully retarted. Sounds exactly like a Shovel Head. On electronic the spark advances at ide as soon as the engine starts. Not a lot, but enough to increase the idle speed. After all, the EVO is just an impoved Shovel. I do love my EVO. Simplicity itself. I am 82 years old and been riding Harleys since I was 14. My first was a 1942 "45" flat head, when I was 14 in 1955. Wish I had kept it. Hindsight. LOL. Anyway, great video. Super clear tech advice. The close up shots were perfect.
Love the Harbor Freight multi meter, they used to give them free with any purchase, with a coupon. I have several, and they work perfectly well. My ironhead sportster uses the same points as a Chevy straight six cylinder, such as a 194, or 230. The points in your kit appear to be identical. I recommend Blue Streak points, they are high quality, longer lasting, worth the money.
I do have two sets of blue streaks and may throw them back in again. I initially removed them because I didn’t like how the condenser couldn’t be removed without removing the points because of that Phillips head screw in the top. Maybe it’s not as tight a fit in the sporty?
@@greasesgarage I connect the wires and tighten the screw as I'm holding the points in my hand, then I install the points to the baseplate. I use the old rolling paper trick to set the timing, if you are familiar with that
@@donbeadling5426yes I have some old timers in my area who showed me that trick. I just wish blue streak would have made their connector like v twin does where you can just push the condenser connector on and take it off without removing the points. If a condenser went bad on my current points I just pull that condenser out, push a new one in and I’m back up and running. No retiming necessary
I seem to remember putting some grease on the cam where the plastic points heel rides. Also the points contacts used to pit/corrode. Attractive option to consider
Dynatec in my 1978 flh (I say flh loosely), kick only, open primary, Accel coil, and wires. It's fully programmable and fires on the second or third kick every time. It's been on my bike for about 8 or 9 years now if I remember correctly. The engine is mostly stock, added a S&S CV carb, Santee upsweep exhaust (straight pipe) wide glide forks, 21" front wheel, barebones seat, 6" risers and drag bars. FXR rear fender, tombstone taillight, no signal lights, adjustable swing arm. I'm trying to find a way to take it with me when I die, hahaha. I also have a 91 softtail springer stage 3 screaming eagle set up. And just recently I bought a 1992 Electra Glide Ultra Classic, I've never been into baggers as is, but at 60 years old now I have a new appreciation for them.
I ran Points in my Shovel for 17 years and I have been running Points in my Evo since 1995 and that was 280,000 kl ago , Points give a Bigger Fatter Spark and no limiter , I have been at this for 53 years and I set my points at 0.018" and with a 3 degree Advance ,
Love to hear this! Sounds like points were one of those things that we moved away from because they were too complicated for the end user to manage but performance wise they were perfect. Glad we’re still here in 2023 with them
the multi meter is a bit high tec- i used a light bulb with 2 wires and crocdile clips -when the light goes out the points are open -another good reason for running points is they remind you to change the oil ! when the bike starts running bad its time to adjust the points and change the oil- electronic ignition will let you keep riding long after your oil is done !
I agree, ive heard of the guy that carries an extra electronic ignition, never meet him either. I kind of trust points over the electronic. Points might be aggravating to change on the side the road at night, can be done.
With the Hi-4n ignition you have a spark on the first kick. I never had any problems and maintenance-free. Easy kick start with correct advance and air/fuel mix. But it's much more expensive !!! next time I'll try the points :)
One thing you did that will help people but didn't mention. Removing the plugs makes the engine far easier to turn over and get it exactly where you need it.
What year? I'm gonna be doing mine as well and I'm curious which timing mark you used? And if you had to grind out the slots on the backing plate at all?
If you’re wanting to learn something, the best one to get is it’s just digital. I get it. It’s for cars, two bikes and everything. It’s a digital ignition system for single fire and dual fire. It’s for both. You can flip a switch and it’ll go right around Excel selling, but this one has been the best one I put in everyone of my bikes if you go on a long haul on your bike with point systems for several hundred miles, the next day when you stop for the night and you go to start that bike back up your points are gonna be needing filed off because they’re gonna be stuck together and it won’t start. It’ll just backfire. It’s not hard to get a book for Harley Davidson I’m my granddad. I’m old-school my granddaddy taught me everything that I needed to know about bikes and I still work on bikes and I just build them, I build them from the ground up and I’m not gonna lead you to nothing but if you would stop and look and learn and listen, shouldn’t be burning you cross something over that’s not working too good for you and I’m not just trying to tell you that just to scare you I’m just saying if you’re gonna run point systems you’re taking a chance of melting a piston or something if you get too hot But it’s smart to carry a lot or some stuff with you or an extra set of points and stuff like that with tools. Everything you need to get yourself fixed on a roadside breakdown and there ain’t gonna be nobody to help you unless it’s another biker so you’re gonna have to think this all by yourself so you’re have to learn how to mechanic it or you just pretty much to have a little bit of money and get towed every time you break down if you’re not gonna learn how to learn your bike I’m not making fun of you but learn your bike. It’ll be a lot cheaper And stop and learn before you do it. Yes the thing learn your bike. Learn what you know what you learn. How do you learn by reading the book that just I had to learn a lot of stuff before I could get on a bike for my dad, my granddaddy, my mom dad would let me get a bike. I had to learn a lot about a bike. I’m glad you did it that way cause I don’t need not one person not one or dealership to do my oil change my oil. I don’t need somebody to work on my bike. I don’t need somebody to Rebuild my engine on my bike. I know every nut bolt screw pin. I’ve got an 883 and it’s a stroker all roll three-quarter can and she’s just no school stoplight to stop like drag bike street bike. Yeah run down the strip strip Huntsville, Alabama, but if you want a little help on some stuff, if you want something different but don’t go to that mod box and every year or every two years or every email or every other year you have to change that thing out every time I mean, everybody’s like you said everybody’s got their good beliefs and their lights and you’ve had some bad luck so I mean, I just do that for you but you have to get off this. Let’s just say let’s go to something cheap and let’s go something. You might know just one wire no write it down it buddy, you’ll get onto it. I’m not saying nothing bad we all had to learn somewhere so hard but don’t go out but don’t ride as fast as your angels can fly buddy never do that. You have a good night man.
The Dyna S ignition works well with a kickstarter. Like the point ignition the Dyna S system uses a 5 ohm coil and mechanical advance unit and there is no ignition module. The downside to the Dyna S system is that the complete kit costs about twice as much as the point ignition.
I love to hear these stories, the channel is all about helping people solve their problems so it’s nice to know it covered whatever the specific issue was 🙏🏼
I would like to do this for my 89 FLHS. It has the original screamin eagle electronic ignition and living in Louisiana it's hot here and so the potting melting out of the unit . I think going to a points system would best for me. Although your video is spot on for what to do as for putting in the points and setting them up with the gap and timing but I am still not sure about wiring the coil witch is a two post duel fire going to a three post single fire. Do I keep the screamin eagle module or do I remove it and if I do then how do I wire all this up this is what I am not finding the answers to in all the conversion videos I have watched. In this case doing the job is the easy part finding the information to do the job now that's the hard part it seems so if you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it Thanks
Your video and the comment's are great. If I may add a bit, and some will be redundant. I do not know what all Saddle Tramp did with his points conversion with which he was not satisfied and went back to electronic ignition. Keeping in mind it is not points alone, but the coil, spark plug gap, plug wires and even the plugs themselves that are all parts making up the ignition system. Hooking up the primary side of the coil wrong (reversed), for example, will cause problems. Who is to say the total advance from the mechanical advance unit will be exactly the same as the total advance from the electronic system? My Evo has 35 degrees total advance with the original electronic system. Suppose the mechanical advance only has, for example, say, 30 degrees total advance. This is why we need to time the engine at total advance for points to compensate for the lack of 5 degrees advance and not at TDC for idle. Also, there is, or was, a spec for the tolerance or difference in the point gap at the highest part of the narrow cam lobe and highest part of the wide cam lobe. That was 0.002" or 2 thousandths. Check the gap at highest place on both lobes. They are to be within 0.002". If not, loosen the advance retaining bolt a little so it can move but not so loose as to move on its own. Now, gently tap the cam towards the lobe where the gap is too much. Like, you have 20 thousandths on the high point of the narrow cam but have, say, 24 thousandths at the high point of the wide cam lobe. Gently tap the advance unit with a soft mallet towards the wide cam. If you get, say, 22 thousandths then on the wide lobe, then the narrow lobe should have increased from 20 thousandths to 22. Readjust the gap then to 20 on the narrow lobe and you should have it within 2 thousandths on the wide lobe. This is an important tolerance. Other than that Standard Motor Products, used to be Standard Ignition I think, and they made Blue Streak points, condensers, etc., makes "Lubricam" which is silicone enhanced cam lobe lubricant. The idea is to minimize wear on the rubbing block of the points but not have it sling off. Used sparingly, a 7/8 ounce tube will last many lifetimes. If the auto parts store doesn't stock it you can have it ordered. Before plastic rubbing blocks they were a kind of hard fiberboard type of material and the would wear "fuzzy" from friction and lack of lubrication. Back in the day all good automotive tune up kits had a little capsule of cam lube included. Sorry to be so darn wordy. Thanks again!
This reply is phenomenal, thank you so much for sharing this knowledge. I am going to pick up some of that Lubricam and if I find a link to it online I'll add it to the description of the video so others can do the same. Love this community and how everyone is always willing to share what they know
@@greasesgarage I had my local O'Reilly order in a tube for $7.99. Their part # is SL2. Amazon has it at twice the price but O'Reilly will ship it to their store closest to you no shipping charge. I have a store close. I suppose other auto parts stores can get it for you also. My father taught me the coil's primary wire going to the points is always the same as the vehicle's ground. On a Harley with negative ground the negative coil terminal goes to the points. Thank you again.
SaddleTramp may not have also changed his coil to 5 ohm. All the Harleys that run points run that coil. I think the world of SaddleTramp, but I think he gave up far too soon on points.
@@misfitsailor they are a very simple ignition but you have to set them up properly, I think it’s often the way people time them that trips them up but the coil could be the issue. I’ll say this though, I ran these points with my stock coil for about a week before the new coil arrived. It’s not recommended but it does work for a while. So I don’t know if the 3 ohm coil would cause his issue.
@@misfitsailor I am subscribed to Saddle Tramp's videos and enjoy them while also thinking well of him. I don't know what coil he used but the 5 ohm is the right one to use with points so I of course agree with you. As Grease's Garage stated make sure the point gaps are the same on both lobes. The tolerance, again, is 0.002". If we have 0.019" on the highest point of the narrow lobe and 0.023" on the highest point of the wide lobe, the difference is 0.004". Loosening the bolt and gently tapping the cam so the narrow lobe moves say, 0.001" more into the rubbing block should open the 0.019" to 0.020" and it stands to reason when the highest point of the wide cam lobe holds the points open the gap should have closed from 0.023" to 0.022". The difference is now 0.002" and within spec by Harley. Another tolerance to keep in mind the engine's camshaft end-play. Those knowing a lot more than I do recommend 0.011" for running points. Too much end-play and the camshaft wanders back and forth, in towards and out away from the engine too much which is a bad thing for points. Experts recommend 0.011" which is within Harley's specs but much tighter than Harley allows at the upper limit for engine camshaft end-play in the electronic ignition Evo. Since Saddle Tramp said in his video no matter how far he moved (rotated) his points mounting plate, either advanced or retarded, his points were open, he concluded the notch in the engine camshaft which locates the mechanical advance unit had been relocated on the Evo by Harley as compared to the Shovelhead. I have to question his conclusion for a couple of reasons. One reason is if the notch was moved by Harley on the Evo cam, then how can some, like Grease's Garage for example, use points successfully? The second reason, which is what I suspect to be the case, is Saddle Tramp's points plate wasn't machined properly. Others have run into this. If the curved slots for the stand-off screws were not cut in the right locations, he'd never get the points plate oriented properly which seems to be the case here. That's my scientific wild ass guess, or swag. That leaves two options. One is to put the points mounting plate in a vise and carefully lengthen the slots the right amount in the right direction with something like a round file. Their distance from the center of the plate has to be held. The other option is to track down a points mounting plate that was made correctly if the first place. A good used OEM plate or perhaps a NOS genuine Harley plate which should have been made right would be the fix.. The Harley part # is: 32618-70A.
@@JoshHarmonyTV I would buy an extractor bit set and start with that. Usually a pilot bit and then a left hand twist style bit that goes into that pilot hole
@@greasesgarage Beauty is the simplicity, and i was so tired adout the battery get suced on and die so fast with all the useless bells and whisles of the ignition/turn signal/security module.
@@pierre-x.8386 absolutely. Lot less battery issues with less hooked to the battery. Got a new video coming this week about electrical testing that you might enjoy
The way I find TDC is I'll rotate the motor until I start to feel compression with my finger over the sparkplug hole on the front cylinder. Then I look for my timing mark. When it's found after rotating the rear wheel in 5th or 4th gear, I'll drop a small screwdriver down the sparkplug hole and watch to see when the piston reaches it's peak. And boom, there it is.
There's a specific grease for the rubbing block on breaker points. It's much more FIBEROUS than die electric, which will fly off rather quickly. Trying to help, not be a know it all. T.S. RACING
Also regular cleaning and lubrication of the mechanical or centrifugal advance unit is highly recommended. A good sign that it's sticking is when you close the throttle, and the r.p.m.s don't drop or are very slow to drop.
@@t.s.racing this is good info I appreciate you sharing man. If you find out what that grease is please let me know I’ll add it to the description. What do you use for lubrication of the advance unit?
THANK YOU FOR THIS! What kind of coil did you pair with your points ignition on your evo? Single or dual fire, and does it matter which? Also what ohm? Sorry for the questions lol I'm trying to do the same thing on my 97 xlc.
After removing the electronics from my 88 Evo 883 Sportster "project bike", which is my first ever street bike outside of a SuperMoto I had years ago,, I installed the points kit as seen on your awesome video. I then ran the wire from the points / condensor connection to the coil - specifically to the small connection that is powered by the kill/ run switch. I noticed right away tha the relay between the ignition hot lead and the gray wire running to the other side of the kill/ run switch kept popping and resetting. It then occurred to me that with the points closed, the key switch ON, and the kill/ run switch to run, I was creating a dead short. I disconnected the points wire from that terminal until I can get better guidance on where it should connect. My research and simple mind tells me perhaps it should connect to the other small terminal on the opposite side of the coil where the pink tach wire connects. If my basic understanding of the coil function is accurate, that side being momentarily grounded by the closed points charges the coil... Am I on the right track? It seems unhealthy to me for the points wire to ground the coil anytime more than briefly, as in when the ignition is charged and the engine is not running. How far off am I? Thank you in advance and have a great day!
One other question that I have after watching several videos and reading different forums, is the original electronic ignition coil compatible with the points system? I have heard that one is a 3 ohm and one a 5 ohm. Which is the original and which do I need? Again, thank you for your helpful info and tips and have a great day!
You want to run that coil from the points to one side of your coil. Straight shot no switch. Then from the other side of your coil heading to the fuse block, in THAT line you can put a kill switch. For points you want a 5 ohm coil, the factory coil is a 3 ohm. The 3 ohm coil should run it though, temporarily. I used mine while waiting for my 5ohm to arrive and it never gave me a problem but I’m told over time it’ll wear out a 3 ohm coil. Let me know how it goes with the new wiring
@@rickdebacker100with the engine running, a 3 Ohm coil is fine for a test. But don't forget to switch off the ignition if the engine isn't running. A 3 Ohm coil will burn out very quickly if the points are closed and the ignition is on.
@@greasesgarage it worked perfectly! It seems to crank easily and run smoothly. I guess I got the timing pretty close from your instructions. Great video and awesome tips. Have a great day.
Hahah so in watching the video back I realized I do a weird thing with my foot when it doesn’t kick over but it isn’t actually a kickback cause you can see me do it even when the bike starts. I have no idea why I do it 😂
I will probably do this to my 1986 Softail Custom when my crane HI4 ignition that I installed in 1996 goes out. Because I do not think I could get anything that has lasted as long as the crane ignition ever again.
Really good video! I understand it now. I couldn't understand static timing until watching bv your video soo good job. I have an 01 Fatboy and they sell a cam cover that allows you to convert from the stock softail ignition, to the early evo style ignition. Soo i guessbif i got it i could convert to points, or jus get a Morris Magneto setup huh?
Glad to hear it was easy to understand! You can swap to points with the stock setup cam cover that’s what I’ve got here. Can you send a link to the one you’re talking about? And yes, a magneto is available for the evo that would be epic but it’s very expensive haha
Hear ya. Riding basically the exact same _sketchy_ bike. Been running a Comp-Fire kick-only electronic ignition since around 2008. Works, but not ideal. There's a lot of heat in the cone; might not be the best place for electronics. My earlier bikes were all kick-only with points. They work. They are simple to diagnose. Gets rid of the VOES. And if there's juice it's going to start.
Amen to that, a very simple design and easy to fix, thought admittedly it also requires a little more attention than the set it and forget it e ignition. Getting rid of the voes is nice for guys like me who aren’t skilled with wiring
That was a fantastic video! I just acquired an old 1988 Sportster 883 out of a friend's barn. It hasn't run for about 10 years, No Spark! The electronic pickup is kinda gooey, almosted melted looking. I was considering going with a points conversion before watching your video, but now I am 100% convinced this is for me. I am from the generation where everything had points and we made it work. The link you provided is for the year range before mine. Do you have a suggestion for a 'kit' for the 88? Thanks again for a great channel. Wish me luck!
@@greasesgarage it has a CV40, but when I pulled it apart to clean and rebuild, I discovered that it doesn't have an accellerator pump and the parts kit did. I used what new parts I could and fingers crossed that cleaning it up is enough.
Dynatek ignitions in my opinion are the best you can buy. I have one on my 1967 FLH Shovelhead. The engine was rebuilt in 1995. It was bored and stroked to 88". The heads were dual plugged so I have two Dyna coils that I run with their ignition. Since 1995 the only thing I have had to do was replace a coil a couple years ago. I have an electric start and a kicker. It may have been the first year for an electric start. There have been many times I've had to kick start it because of my battery getting weak. I can usually get it to start on the first or second time. With the older bikes there is a particular sequence you need to follow for an easier start. I will admit that I'm only 180lbs and there are many times that the bike will stop me dead in my tracks kicking it. Compression is a bitch sometimes. It's funny you're running a 4 speed and I'm looking to put a 5 in a 4 into this.
Yea the old 4 speeds are just so much more suited to the jockey shift foot clutch setup. I was lucky to find someone who wanted a 5 speed and traded them for this one and never looked back. Factory kicker
@@greasesgarage I was actually surprised going from my 5 speed Evo to this 4 speed Shovel. I thought it was going to be way different than it turned out. The way the 4 speed is geared I don't really notice the difference. Every now and then I catch myself trying to shift into 5th just by habit. Shit with that 4 speed I catch myself having to downshift at times. Everyone I know that has swapped them for a 5 speed in a 4 speed case tells me that's the only way to go and the difference is amazing. I'm happy with what I've got and I'm not going to buy a $1500-$3000+ trans. Love the jockey shift. Some of my dad's buddies still ride Pan heads with an open primary and jockey shift. I grew up around the bikes back in the day that had 8' front ends on them with the big handmade sissy bar on the back. Choppers Rule
@@channelx92 you’re spot on. If I was going to buy a baker there’s no way I’d get a 5 into 4. A 6 into 4 maybe, because that sixth gear is an overdrive ratio, but the thing people always forget is that the 4 and 5 speeds trans both have a 1:1 top gear ratio so really it’s just some gear between 2 and 3 you’re missing and like you said, you don’t even notice it once you’ve ridden it for a while
I used to buy a clear nylon plug ( see through )for the case to see the timing mark. They were only a buck and a piece of Teflon tape. I put them in and leave it.
You have an open primary why not use a wrench or socket on your front pulley nut to turn your motor? It's easier and more precise to find your timing mark....also another plus for points is if your out and they do mess up you can get replacements at most auto part stores ( Harleys from 1970 up to 1978 use the same points and condenser as a 1970 Chevrolet 250 six cylinder)....ride safe and keep the videos coming...
Thanks brotha actually just had someone in a jam looking for points and they couldn’t find them I will pass this info along maybe with the vehicle model they’d be able to have the parts store locate them
Hey man, awesome channel. Question if you don't mind. I have a 2017 Heritage FlSTC . 28k milage adult riden. Maintenance 4k. Do I need to remove timing cover and inspect plastic shoes??
@boscodog4358 ah I see. I’ll be 100% honest in saying I’m not familiar with those newest models and their design. I know the twin cams had cam shoe tensioner issues but I would have imagined that Harley worked that out by the M8
I’ve watched so many videos, and I cannot figure out the timing. If you move one thing, the other thing moves, so how could you possibly time them. if I lineup the hole by moving the back tire and six gear then I’m also moving the cam so they’re constantly both in motion. No matter how many videos I watch I cannot figure this out.
@@greasesgarage I sure hope I'm not bothering you, I will need a single fire coil right, well if points have one wire there is 3 spots on coil not sure where point wire goes and what about the other 2 spots on coil ,Thanks
@gregorykucera4235 this video will show you in detail but long story short one wire from points to one side of the coil, other wire from the other side of the coil to your fuse block
Hello great video 👍, my 97 fat boy has electronic ignition, until now no problem. What are the differences whit mechanical ignition driving the bike? Like in an up hill the electronic ignition retards the sparks (right?), whit the mechanical what you have to do? Thanks
I could be wrong here but I believe with an electronic the vacuum pressure of the motor is read by the VOES system which adjusts the ECM for proper fuel spark timing. On a mechanical ignition the flyweights on the mechanical assembly spread out as the rpm’s increase and that spreading changes the speed at which the spark gap opens. Faster rpm, faster spark delivery, and vise versa
Ok, but I know in the older bikes you have to manually retard or anticipate (I don't remember) the ignition when you are in an up hill. I don't know how in mechanical ignition it's made. Yes, more rights the engine has and more the masses widen and changing the ignition. In up hill the engine, maybe at low rights has to make more effort and whit not changing ignition it can knock on head. When you are in up hill you go whit high revs or also at low revs the engine works well? Thanks for the answer.
@@MrFabri2005oh I think you’re talking about significantly older bikes based on what you’re saying. As far as I know the only manual timing change you’ll need to make on bikes even as old as flatheads is to retard the timing a bit while kickstarting (done by twisting the magneto or distributor) but I don’t believe it needs to be done while riding. Certainly not on my bike at least, maybe someone with an older bike can comment to confirm as well
I actually want to even further back than points on my 91 fxsts too a Magneto. Even if you lose the charging system it will still run, you won't have lights but you won't be stranded on the side of the road either, especially if you added a kick start to the transmission. I have a 78 shovelhead flh bobber with a magneto, and it got me home when my alternator quit.
I just recently added the mag, and so far, I love it. And I'm still checking into why my 78 isn't charging. I suspect that it's a ground or short, and I have not had the time to get to it. In the meantime, I still have my 91 springer and a 92 electra glide ultra classic. Hopefully I will be able to it soon.
@greasesgarage Dennis kirk offers a magneto for the evolution at a reasonable price and I'm considering it for a winter project. It's a Joe Hunt mag for 1,340. I don't know much about it yet though I am trying to find information on quality and how reliable it is before purchasing.
I switched over to points on my 1980 XLH 1000 Ironhead chopper that I built in my garage. I’m having some issues and I have a couple questions. The bike does not enjoy higher RPM/ freeway speed which is a problem because I’d like to get back to commuting. As of now 4th gear sputters unless I shift from 3rd to 4th at high RPM and it does not enjoy staying at higher RPM. Any suggestions? My next question is about spark plugs. I’ve read that resistor plugs aren’t good and that I should drop the gap from 40 to 30 with non resistor plugs. I’m currently running NGK 7022’s and I don’t know what non resistor plug will replace that correctly. Again, any suggestions appreciated. The last question would be regarding timing. I hear static timing a lot but I haven’t adjusted points on a Harley aside from these and I followed along in the Shovel head video you did about points conversions so I’m not sure if the hesitation is a sign to advance/ retard the timing or maybe start over and reset the points completely. Let me know what you think. I love the Ironhead and I really wanna get it back on the road.
I do gap my plugs at .28 for the same reason, someone had told me a while ago that points require that smaller gap. I’ve had good luck with it. As far as which plugs I couldn’t say, I run NGK plugs I’ll have to check the model number when I get home. I would think the hesitation is a sign to advance but maybe try just a light touch advance and see if it helps or hurts, let me know what you see
@@greasesgarage So I switched to NGK Standard Series B-6L plugs gapped at .28 and the 4th gear hesitation is 98% gone. I’d say the rest of it is coming from needing to dial in the points and the new S&S carb and possibly ditching the Bristol Breather from Prism Suppy for my old foam filter air cleaner. Maybe take a second look at the jetting again or the float adjustment as a last resort if the other two don’t fix things. I appreciate the help!
I could have sworn you mentioned something about having to use a burr to grind out those rotation slots on the points plate a little. Is that not in this video?
Hey grease. Putting points conversion kit on my 80 model BT kick only .yes my electronic ignition did work from time to time as you mentioned in your video. Questions I have for you . Saddle tramp on here states in his video that evo's and late model shovelheads were never meant to take points as the notch on the end the cam is in a different position to early models and he could never get to points to work on his bike . Someone says in his comments to elongate the slot on the points backing plate to get more adjustments. Yet your video shows you can. I have bought the same kit as you used and it clearly says can work on later models after 78 with a points coil. I enjoy your videos and love your chop.
I disagree with that statement about it not working on evos and shovels. My bike is the living proof that it works just fine as mine has points in it and I ran them all season. You can do this too. Some points have a taller shoe than others though and sometimes require grinding out that slot. I would check that comment again that might have been me commenting that I can’t remember but I did do it on mine while others said their points didn’t require it. If you can’t get your points gap to close, just watch my video on grinding the notch and it’ll get you going. I’ll also mention in his points video he times the bike off top dead center, when I’ve always been taught you set your timing off the advance mark. Idk if that’s got something to do with why it didn’t work for him but I really encourage you to give this a shot. You will need a 5ohm coil though
Thanks grease for reply, yes I'm sure I will be fine . Some videos out there are confusing as they are mixed information. I will stick to your information in the future I think .I have two shovelheads and have been able to do everything myself on both builds just electrical is something I struggle with. Thanks grease for the info and support
@greasesgarage yes will watch that in the morning. Thanks for your help grease. I am window shopping for a evo at the moment but just can't decide as I have so much time on shovelheads but when they are having down time , an evo looks pretty appealing .lol
Damn link says product out of stock. Any other recommendations for the assembly. 1996 dyna with stock ignition and would like to switch over to points system
Ye, the only little advantage electronic has is a little higher output and less maintenance. But… I always ditch electronic ignitions I just like points, easy and simple and great for kickers.
Grease! Are the steps exactly the same for a 75 shovelhead??? I have seen other videos, and nobody talks about physically moving the cam lobe to advance position inside the cone @17:00 in your video.
That’s because they’re not Grease’s Garage! Jk maybe there is a way where you don’t have to do that but in my opinion it’s the best way to know you’ve got your timing right because it ensures you set your plate at the perfect spot that the lobe will be in as it fires. Procedure is exactly the same for you on your Shovelhead but people say Shovelheads like a .018 gap not .020. Also your advance timing mark will not match mine so don’t use my mark as the one to look for 👍🏼 let me know if you get it!
I bought that points kit for my 2003 sportster i was told it doesn't work with a 2003 i know it won't with an 04 sportster. Getting ready to buy a dyna s ignition and trying to find out if my bike will run properly with point's
Said it didn't run right! The adjustment slot where you move the hole plate to advance it or retard it. But i got mine running and it looks like it's in the same position as your points are the plate.
Im having a problem getting the small lobe to come in contact with the points. Followed all these steps. Timing mark is set & turned my points plate all the way counterclockwise & the small lobe doesn’t touch when its fully advanced. Any advice?
This would be a good place to start because it’s a known problem I had Harley Evo Points Troubleshooting: What To Do If Your Points Won't Close th-cam.com/video/nCK965uKQfU/w-d-xo.html
Which marks do you use on a sportster couldn't find it no were and does have to be in a certain gear to set the points also I have one red wire coming from my rectifier and no back one is this the one I hook up to the positive side of battery
@@greasesgarage Would points be a good idea if I dont have a kick start? Right now I have electric start and Im looking to have a kick start sometime in the future. Im new to the EVO world. Thanks!
Hey Grease, the stock ignition module on my 97 softail died on me. If I convert to points, what do I do with the voes and the stock wiring? Can it all be disconnected? I really need help can't find an answer anywhere
If you’re going full chopper build I’d just pull all the wiring and start fresh. You can see my entire harness and every connection involved in this video right here. And as for the voes, you can delete it. But be sure to block off the air nipple on your manifold when you do. How to Wire Your Chopper | Part 1 th-cam.com/video/LNI9ClOKDf8/w-d-xo.html
These are mid USA points but I believe v twin points are exactly like these ones as well. The condenser is blue streak. Blue streak points are also great if you want to buy the points and condenser together
How about setting the gap on the small lobe, getting the plate in a general position where the bike starts, then advance unit until you hear ping then slowly back off until ping is gone. lock down get down the road.
This is a late model Shovelhead (79-84) transmission aka “rotary top”. It will fit early 90’s evos with a 4-into-5 transmission plate, paughco makes them and some others too. With that plate it’ll bolt right in. As for the inner primary (if you’re using one) I don’t know for sure if that fits but I can do some digging for ya
So the points will work with a starter too but many electronic ignitions are made specifically to work with starters so they have three “dead revolutions” where they don’t spark before they start firing. If you try to use those with a kicker you’ll never get it to start because your leg won’t generate enough power to get past those dead revs. This is why many people go to points when they use a kicker. Or an electronic ignition designed specifically for kickers
@@greasesgarage thank you for your reply so they will work with starter I wood think it wood start lot easyer Ben long time without riding a bike about 1969 last time for me
Ha well I am that person you have to meet. I just today this morning had to install my new spare ultimate icm bought it a few months back and well i had it with me and sadly today i had to use it yes this is all fact bummer tho i still have no spark i lost spark last nite while riding so now I'm hunting 2 single fire coils. Any suggestions to help get fire back I would appreciate. But I am the guy you spoke of. Lol
This is something I’ve heard from many people but what I can’t find is a proper link to share with my viewers to show them where to buy the ones you’re describing. Do you have a link you could share?
@greasesgarage what do you ride I have a big twin revtech (Evo type) I just walked in and asked for points for 1975 straight 6 Chevy 250 you have to tell him a truck or whatever but otherwise they can't seem to look it up but just any early Chevy 6 cylinder 250 straight six that is
@user-eq8es8xw8v also an evo big twin, jealous of wherever you’re at tho I can’t find a parts store anywhere that still has points on the shelf. They always say they would have to order it
@user-eq8es8xw8v we’ve got a bunch, Napa (everyone told me Napa would have them and they said no they stopped carrying them a decade ago), oreilleys, auto one, Sanel. Nobody keeps them in stock up here in the northeast. Not the end of the world though as it’s easy to order a set online
I cut my teeth on a '73 Sportster many years ago. I had to screw w/ my points so much I just left the cover off. I know how those babies work inside and out. My present ride is a '99 Evo Softail. I might just convert to points before something happens to the Module/ VOES/ sensor, etc, etc... and leaves me stranded.
It’s a female spade terminal at the points end which you can see in the vid, and on the cool end it’s a ring terminal to either side of the coil. The other side of the coil will go to your fuse block (ie power)
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Don’t forget to gap spark plugs to .028” when running points. Only electronic ignitions run .040” Also I have a maintenance video of the flyweight assembly on my TH-cam channel if anyone needs it!
I didn’t know that, good info! Why do they run different gaps?
@@greasesgarage Electronic ignitions have a higher output discharge. They are modern. A bigger gap on the plugs insures a more complete burn of the combustion stroke. Points ignition can only jump the gap that the condenser can put out which on Harley’s is .027”-.030”. I know it may be strange to set your plugs gap that small but if you’re running points, you should. People think that because they have an Evo that it calls for .040” like the factory manual says. That’s true for stock ignition, however if you’re converting to points you use a service manual from a bike that runs points, like the older brother Shovelhead. Piston bore size, valve size, rod stroke, etc does not dictate the size gap you run on plugs.. only ignition system dictates that gap. Also you should change your stock 3ohm coil to a points friendly 5ohm coil. Everything will play nice together that way. If you’re really a stickler you could even swap plug wires out for solid core wires (like copper core) that are made to run with points systems. Good video though nice job friend!
@@dropthathammer really appreciate the response brotha! I do have a 5ohm coil as I had heard the points needed it but I will have to try that smaller gap. The more you know!
Yes very important
Thank you for that info
Tip from a kick only pro of 52. Always follow thru with the kick even when it fires. There’s a kicker disengagement at the bottom of the kick to prevent kick back and injuries. Please don’t do the bounce kick. On your rapid return, your kick gear is engaged. Subject to engine kicking back on you if it misfires.
This is a great tip, this being my first kicker bike I have that bad habit of letting it go quickly if it doesn’t fire. Working on retraining the brain now haha
Yup, many years ago my panhead threw me on a kick back. I landed on the ground writhing in pain. No kidding, true story. Follow through no matter what.
I had a 12 year delay on doing this, exactly what I needed. Well done.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I am a total noob and this breakdown of what it is, how it works, then how to put it on is exactly what I need. Love the podcast and stoked to follow the channel.
Really glad to hear this homie! This channel is all about making things simple and easy to understand. If I can do it, anybody can 🤘🏼
I've been waiting on a video like this for a couple years now. I want a kicker backup for my Evo and simplicity as far as wiring and ignition. I bought all the points components to have on me in case my current electronic ignition crapped out 300 miles from the house on a late Sunday night and I needed a quick and cheap roadside fix to get me home.
Smart thinking man! If you put them in and set the timing then marked the plate you’d be in real good shape to toss them in quickly in a pinch and get home without have to static time on the road
Chevy 250 straight six points
Watched this vid & figured I’d give points a shot. Slapped the points ignition & a new coil on today & my big twin evo fired right up. Thanks man!
Dude nicely done! I’m so stoked to hear that it helped make the swap easy for you. That’s what it’s all about 🤘🏼
The electronic modoule on my 1984 Softail died without warning in 1992. At the time, in order to repair it, I had to "upgrade" to the then current electronic ignition. $500 in 1992 might as well have been $500,000 for me (college student). A Blue Streak points conversion kit was $50. I made the decision to "go retro" and I ran those points for 11 years WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS! When my 1999 Softail had an electronic module failure, I already had a new conversion kit on the shelf waiting for just such an opportunity. My 1999 now sports points ignition and I am very happy. My 1984 Softail is currently being rebuilt and it will also sport Blue Streak points again. ETA: My 84 Softail has a 4 speed with kicker and I never had any problems using the kicker with the electronic ignition. I love the music made by a Big Twin running drag pipes and points ignition.
What an awesome story man, I love to hear this! Points life is a simple life and I’m stoked to hear you had good experiences with yours! Let me ask you a question (because maybe I’m installing mine wrong)
How are you attaching your condenser to the points on the blue streaks? What put me off to them was that I couldn’t remove the condenser on the side of the road without having to remove the points plate because that screw is on top of the points. Am I doing that wrong? Or do you just mark your timing spot and take the points out on the side of the road if you need to?
Thanks brotha
Been around bikes since the early 70s, good video, I was told by a automotive engineer years ago that if you understand tuning points, you can make more power with em,, they had to show the e p a , that they were working on smog
I'm that guy....my 82 shovel's converted to points for 37 years for the same reason you're converting, but my 86 evo fl is ultima electronic. I carry both a dyna pickup & mechanical weights set up, and an extra ultima. But I also carry 50 lbs of tools and spare parts. Enough to do a top end or final drive belt. Nothing wrong with points. Never had an issue (with some regular maintenance) other than some failed condenser's. Cheap china or mexico made condenser's are the biggest problem today....good luck and keep on wrenching!
That’s awesome! Love to hear it’s been running smoothly for ya
A couple thoughts if you don't mind. Electronic ignitions turn a transistor off and on to mimic the action of the points. A popular misconception is that electronic produces a "hotter" spark. Bullshit. The advantage of electronic is there is no maintenance. Once set, the timing is always spot on. Points have a rubbing block that wears. If you keep up with maintenance that is not a problem. You are correct about carrying parts for roadside repairs. Points rarely fail, but electronic failures can be the module or the sensor or both. Several hundred dollars bouncing around in your bags is inferior to emergency point reparigging"ir parts. Hell, years ago my moving contact arm broke. Stranded across the street from a junkyard I stole points out of an old car and after some "rigging" I was on my way. Cool video , grease.
Funny you mention the spark. Another comment here detailed how the points actually produce the “hotter” spark and that younger people today are sold BS from e ignition companies.
I’m too young to know the days when points were the standard but they’re just to easy and reliable for me I can’t see a reason to take them out. I still get a few haters each week saying how stupid I am to use them haha
Thanks for the comment and for checking out the channel 🙏🏼
I'm mainly considering points because a new single fire coil cost like $180 plus I think I need to replace the dyna 2ki ignition anyways, once the bike gets hot it acts funky. Points either work or don't lol. Thanks for being able to explain things so thoroughly and make sense to my pea brain
I appreciate you letting me know it helped man! Glad to hear that it came through as easy to understand. Points are totally worth a shot and always a great backup to have on hand even if you don’t switch over right away
One of the better aspects of points for me is that when they begin to wear, they let you know by degraded performance. You get a fair warning that things aren't right. When my electronic oignition died, it just died without any warning. That happened over 30 years ago and I still remember that long trudge home in the rain through the rolling hills of North West Arkansas.
@@Rif_Leman this is so true, when mine weren’t right I definitely knew it. Specifically at the top end. I was getting tons of breakup at highway speeds and at high revs
So glad i found this channel. Its nice having a reference when you feel stuck. I tend to overthink everything so these videos help a lot. Thanks bro
I tend to do the same thing so you’re in good company haha
What kills most people trying to run electronic ignitions is the dead revs. They all come programmed with 3 dead revs. Which means the plugs wont fire for 3 revolutions of the motor. So when people prime, then key on and kick three times they are likely flooded before the plugs fire.
You have to get/make the programming cable and set the dead revs to zero. This allows the plugs to fire immediately. I do this for all my kick bikes and they are all one kick bikes.
Points for back up is a great idea though.
Exactly. I have seen a few people do this and have great luck with e ignition and kickers
@@greasesgarage i dont even do prime kicks anymore. A couple squirts and kick with key on. Unless the bikes have been sitting they are easily 1-2 kick bikes. I’ll happily reprogram peoples ignitions too. Ultima and dyna 2000i’s are the ones i have the cable/software for.
Smart play is to carry your points setup as a backup on trips if you convert to electronic ignition.
I’ve run points for 50 years. I’ve tried several electronic ignition that claimed to be great for kick. They never worked. However, I tried a “Rawhide Electronic Ignition” system for Shovelheads. I’ve got to say, it really woke my bike up. I still carry my point plate with me though.
I’ve been curious about those, glad to hear you had a good experience with it. Maybe I can do a side by side comparison on that vs points in my bike in the future
THIS is a good video on how to time a cone shovelhead or evo.... every video i see fails to mention that you have to advance the mechanism if you're going to time it to the advance mark on the flywheel. good job.
Glad to hear that man, I appreciate the kind words 🤘🏼
We didn't get into this because it was easy, we got into it because we thought it was easy. And now we are addicted 🥴🤣😭
Hahaha dude I love this line
I didn't get into it because it was easy I got into it because it was fucking awesome!!!
Well not mine phone 😢
Ive been wanting to do this for my 95 Sportster. I like the simplicity and reliability of it
Great video. Another reason to go points: When I teach people how to wrench on stuff, electrical is always the most intimidating, and points with a minimal chopper wiring harness is like the training wheels. You can go all fancy electronics later, but you are building the foundation of basic electrical theory, so you have a chance of figuring out the more complex stuff, hah. Also, the central bolt that comes in those kits is garbage, they snap right where the threads part meets the unthreaded part. And they are a weird thread too, so they are hard to find at the hardware or auto parts store. I think it's 10-32 thread, but doesn't matter, you CAN get a very nice socket head cap screw, that is just the right size, from any Husqvarna dealer, it's the carb hold down bolt for a Husqvarna 181 and 288 family of saws. It's an older saw but they are a popular saw to hotrod so you can get the parts easy. The backing plate and points are the same as a Chevy 250 straight six truck engine, from 60's to 70's, so if you can find a mechanical advance used cheap, you can convert for under $20, I can't remember which mechanical advance works, maybe an iron head sportster, but check the forums, I'm not 100% on that. I have MS, so my memory is getting dodgy even though I'm only 40, hah.
What an awesome reply! Tons of great info in here man thank you 🙏🏼 totally agree, if you can wire up a simple bike, adding additional circuits later on feels much more approachable and easier to understand. I think people often get sucked into the “performance” aspect of things and feel the need to complicate the wiring but better to get started with something you can understand.
I’ll have to look for one of those bolts because I definitely agree the one that comes in the kit isn’t great. I’d love to have a spare on hand.
I’ve heard this about the Chevy points. Many people use the blue streaks because most parts stores will carry them and they fit this application. I just don’t care for the way they mount because you can’t the condenser out without removing the points completely. Just a nitpick though, they function fine
@@greasesgarage yeah, where's the performance if you can't fix your own bike and are doing the walk of shame pushing it down shoulder of the road? Lol. The old school guys who taught me how to wrench all liked blue streaks too, but I get wanting to be able to pop them on easier. Only thing I've had fail in points ignitions is the spring that holds the points closed on cheap points, they heat treat them too hard or use too cheap an alloy, and the snap, the other is the wire that goes from the points to the coil on motor designs that vibrate a lot, like a Harley, hah. The wire work hardens and snaps. If you know anybody who works on model A fords, they have an on the fly adjustable distribu-lator, so their points wires snap too, so they found a source of wire that's has many more strands of finer wire, sorta like difference between a pro welders welding leads and a cheap battery cable, the welding leed feels like a noodle in comparison, hah. And, because it's marketed to model A guys, it comes in cool 1930's style cloth outer cover.
@@bondvagabond42 that sounds awesome! Do you have a link to that wire? I would love to give it a shot
@@greasesgarage any of the venders for Ford model A parts has it, I think I saw it at that Austin Texas chopper parts shop, revival cycles, or revival choppers has it. On the other end of the spectrum from that sexy high strand count wire, by having a set of points with me, we once got my buddies bike going with points and a piece of fence wire wrapped in electrical tape when his ignition module bricked on us out in the desert of Idaho.
In a funny case of the fickle finger of fate flipping me off, between when I posted the last comment and this one, my ignition module on my basket case 1996 sportster S died, I'd JUST gotten it running, lol. I run the electronical stuff when it's working, cause I can get an extra 5mpg vs. Points, and I'm cheap, hah, but that was just mean, I might be a points only guy now. Sure glad I had a setup already, so I can just pop them in, instead of waiting a week for a set in the mail. No factory ignition modules available for the S models, so I would be looking at a $$$ go fast aftermarket style, if I didn't know how to swap to points.
I changed my 84 Iron Head Sportster to point ignition when the electronic module failed. On the Sportster I had to change the coil because the points ignition uses a different coil. And I also changed the plugs as points ignition use different plugs with a different gap.
If you go back to a shovel head that used points ignition you will find the right coil. It will make your kicker work much better.
Great self explanatory video on how to change it over. My Sportster ran much better with points ignition although my gas mileage went down as the electronic ignition does advance the timing farther when cruising on the highway. I have a 99 Softail Custom now and may change it over to points as you can fix it. Simplicity of the Kettering system works.
One other thing. And I noticed it right away on yours. Points ignition are retarded at idle which makes the EVO sound the same as a Shovel Head. I added a switch to the vacuum switch on mine so I can retard the timing. Drives the Twin cam guys crazy.
Very cool! Didn’t realize that about the idle. And yes a 5ohm coil is what you need for points vs the 3 ohm that would typically come on an electronic ignition factory bike, I swapped mine over when I did the conversion. However, it does run with the 3, I’m told it will just eventually ruin it so I made the switch.
As for the plugs, I’m told the gap must be smaller. Same plugs I had in from the other ignition but a smaller gap
I could tell right away when you started your engine that it was idling with the spark fully retarted. Sounds exactly like a Shovel Head. On electronic the spark advances at ide as soon as the engine starts. Not a lot, but enough to increase the idle speed. After all, the EVO is just an impoved Shovel.
I do love my EVO. Simplicity itself. I am 82 years old and been riding Harleys since I was 14. My first was a 1942 "45" flat head, when I was 14 in 1955. Wish I had kept it. Hindsight. LOL. Anyway, great video. Super clear tech advice. The close up shots were perfect.
Love the Harbor Freight multi meter, they used to give them free with any purchase, with a coupon. I have several, and they work perfectly well. My ironhead sportster uses the same points as a Chevy straight six cylinder, such as a 194, or 230. The points in your kit appear to be identical. I recommend Blue Streak points, they are high quality, longer lasting, worth the money.
I do have two sets of blue streaks and may throw them back in again. I initially removed them because I didn’t like how the condenser couldn’t be removed without removing the points because of that Phillips head screw in the top. Maybe it’s not as tight a fit in the sporty?
@@greasesgarage I connect the wires and tighten the screw as I'm holding the points in my hand, then I install the points to the baseplate. I use the old rolling paper trick to set the timing, if you are familiar with that
@@donbeadling5426yes I have some old timers in my area who showed me that trick. I just wish blue streak would have made their connector like v twin does where you can just push the condenser connector on and take it off without removing the points. If a condenser went bad on my current points I just pull that condenser out, push a new one in and I’m back up and running. No retiming necessary
@@greasesgarage Yes, the screw setup is definitely not convenient.
I seem to remember putting some grease on the cam where the plastic points heel rides. Also the points contacts used to pit/corrode. Attractive option to consider
Good point!
Dynatec in my 1978 flh (I say flh loosely), kick only, open primary, Accel coil, and wires.
It's fully programmable and fires on the second or third kick every time.
It's been on my bike for about 8 or 9 years now if I remember correctly.
The engine is mostly stock, added a S&S CV carb, Santee upsweep exhaust (straight pipe) wide glide forks, 21" front wheel, barebones seat, 6" risers and drag bars.
FXR rear fender, tombstone taillight, no signal lights, adjustable swing arm.
I'm trying to find a way to take it with me when I die, hahaha.
I also have a 91 softtail springer stage 3 screaming eagle set up.
And just recently I bought a 1992 Electra Glide Ultra Classic, I've never been into baggers as is, but at 60 years old now I have a new appreciation for them.
Sounds like a killer bike brotha!
I ran Points in my Shovel for 17 years and I have been running Points in my Evo since 1995 and that was 280,000 kl ago , Points give a Bigger Fatter Spark and no limiter , I have been at this for 53 years and I set my points at 0.018" and with a 3 degree Advance ,
Love to hear this! Sounds like points were one of those things that we moved away from because they were too complicated for the end user to manage but performance wise they were perfect. Glad we’re still here in 2023 with them
@@greasesgarage I don't like Computers , I building a 39 Ford Pickup No computer
the multi meter is a bit high tec- i used a light bulb with 2 wires and crocdile clips -when the light goes out the points are open -another good reason for running points is they remind you to change the oil ! when the bike starts running bad its time to adjust the points and change the oil- electronic ignition will let you keep riding long after your oil is done !
I agree, ive heard of the guy that carries an extra electronic ignition, never meet him either. I kind of trust points over the electronic. Points might be aggravating to change on the side the road at night, can be done.
These are the best videos
Cannot wait to see what else
This channel brings.
Proud to be a lowlife!!
Thank you brotha! Really appreciate that
With the Hi-4n ignition you have a spark on the first kick. I never had any problems and maintenance-free. Easy kick start with correct advance and air/fuel mix. But it's much more expensive !!! next time I'll try the points :)
I’ve heard good things about those
One thing you did that will help people but didn't mention. Removing the plugs makes the engine far easier to turn over and get it exactly where you need it.
Very true. Much easier to turn that way
just did this to my evo sportster. thanks for the help.
So glad to hear it was helpful man, that’s what it’s all about! 🤘🏼🙏🏼
What year? I'm gonna be doing mine as well and I'm curious which timing mark you used? And if you had to grind out the slots on the backing plate at all?
If you’re wanting to learn something, the best one to get is it’s just digital. I get it. It’s for cars, two bikes and everything. It’s a digital ignition system for single fire and dual fire. It’s for both. You can flip a switch and it’ll go right around Excel selling, but this one has been the best one I put in everyone of my bikes if you go on a long haul on your bike with point systems for several hundred miles, the next day when you stop for the night and you go to start that bike back up your points are gonna be needing filed off because they’re gonna be stuck together and it won’t start. It’ll just backfire. It’s not hard to get a book for Harley Davidson I’m my granddad. I’m old-school my granddaddy taught me everything that I needed to know about bikes and I still work on bikes and I just build them, I build them from the ground up and I’m not gonna lead you to nothing but if you would stop and look and learn and listen, shouldn’t be burning you cross something over that’s not working too good for you and I’m not just trying to tell you that just to scare you I’m just saying if you’re gonna run point systems you’re taking a chance of melting a piston or something if you get too hot But it’s smart to carry a lot or some stuff with you or an extra set of points and stuff like that with tools. Everything you need to get yourself fixed on a roadside breakdown and there ain’t gonna be nobody to help you unless it’s another biker so you’re gonna have to think this all by yourself so you’re have to learn how to mechanic it or you just pretty much to have a little bit of money and get towed every time you break down if you’re not gonna learn how to learn your bike I’m not making fun of you but learn your bike. It’ll be a lot cheaper And stop and learn before you do it. Yes the thing learn your bike. Learn what you know what you learn. How do you learn by reading the book that just I had to learn a lot of stuff before I could get on a bike for my dad, my granddaddy, my mom dad would let me get a bike. I had to learn a lot about a bike. I’m glad you did it that way cause I don’t need not one person not one or dealership to do my oil change my oil. I don’t need somebody to work on my bike. I don’t need somebody to Rebuild my engine on my bike. I know every nut bolt screw pin. I’ve got an 883 and it’s a stroker all roll three-quarter can and she’s just no school stoplight to stop like drag bike street bike. Yeah run down the strip strip Huntsville, Alabama, but if you want a little help on some stuff, if you want something different but don’t go to that mod box and every year or every two years or every email or every other year you have to change that thing out every time I mean, everybody’s like you said everybody’s got their good beliefs and their lights and you’ve had some bad luck so I mean, I just do that for you but you have to get off this. Let’s just say let’s go to something cheap and let’s go something. You might know just one wire no write it down it buddy, you’ll get onto it. I’m not saying nothing bad we all had to learn somewhere so hard but don’t go out but don’t ride as fast as your angels can fly buddy never do that. You have a good night man.
The Dyna S ignition works well with a kickstarter. Like the point ignition the Dyna S system uses a 5 ohm coil and mechanical advance unit and there is no ignition module. The downside to the Dyna S system is that the complete kit costs about twice as much as the point ignition.
@@dformell still a great option as many people don’t want to go to points, thanks for sharing this
Iam always looking for fifth on my ole shovel 😅😅 points elec ign its your choice...hell why not a Morris magneto?
Gotta love the mags man!
Thanks for that video man. Doing the conversion from electronic to points on my sporty, and I see where I went wrong..awesome vid
I love to hear these stories, the channel is all about helping people solve their problems so it’s nice to know it covered whatever the specific issue was 🙏🏼
I have a complete setup in my desk waiting for me to install it... Now that riding season's over...
Perfect timing haha
I would like to do this for my 89 FLHS. It has the original screamin eagle electronic ignition and living in Louisiana it's hot here and so the potting melting out of the unit . I think going to a points system would best for me. Although your video is spot on for what to do as for putting in the points and setting them up with the gap and timing but I am still not sure about wiring the coil witch is a two post duel fire going to a three post single fire. Do I keep the screamin eagle module or do I remove it and if I do then how do I wire all this up this is what I am not finding the answers to in all the conversion videos I have watched. In this case doing the job is the easy part finding the information to do the job now that's the hard part it seems so if you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it Thanks
Your video and the comment's are great. If I may add a bit, and some will be redundant. I do not know what all Saddle Tramp did with his points conversion with which he was not satisfied and went back to electronic ignition. Keeping in mind it is not points alone, but the coil, spark plug gap, plug wires and even the plugs themselves that are all parts making up the ignition system. Hooking up the primary side of the coil wrong (reversed), for example, will cause problems. Who is to say the total advance from the mechanical advance unit will be exactly the same as the total advance from the electronic system? My Evo has 35 degrees total advance with the original electronic system. Suppose the mechanical advance only has, for example, say, 30 degrees total advance. This is why we need to time the engine at total advance for points to compensate for the lack of 5 degrees advance and not at TDC for idle. Also, there is, or was, a spec for the tolerance or difference in the point gap at the highest part of the narrow cam lobe and highest part of the wide cam lobe. That was 0.002" or 2 thousandths. Check the gap at highest place on both lobes. They are to be within 0.002". If not, loosen the advance retaining bolt a little so it can move but not so loose as to move on its own. Now, gently tap the cam towards the lobe where the gap is too much. Like, you have 20 thousandths on the high point of the narrow cam but have, say, 24 thousandths at the high point of the wide cam lobe. Gently tap the advance unit with a soft mallet towards the wide cam. If you get, say, 22 thousandths then on the wide lobe, then the narrow lobe should have increased from 20 thousandths to 22. Readjust the gap then to 20 on the narrow lobe and you should have it within 2 thousandths on the wide lobe. This is an important tolerance. Other than that Standard Motor Products, used to be Standard Ignition I think, and they made Blue Streak points, condensers, etc., makes "Lubricam" which is silicone enhanced cam lobe lubricant. The idea is to minimize wear on the rubbing block of the points but not have it sling off. Used sparingly, a 7/8 ounce tube will last many lifetimes. If the auto parts store doesn't stock it you can have it ordered. Before plastic rubbing blocks they were a kind of hard fiberboard type of material and the would wear "fuzzy" from friction and lack of lubrication. Back in the day all good automotive tune up kits had a little capsule of cam lube included. Sorry to be so darn wordy. Thanks again!
This reply is phenomenal, thank you so much for sharing this knowledge. I am going to pick up some of that Lubricam and if I find a link to it online I'll add it to the description of the video so others can do the same.
Love this community and how everyone is always willing to share what they know
@@greasesgarage I had my local O'Reilly order in a tube for $7.99. Their part # is SL2. Amazon has it at twice the price but O'Reilly will ship it to their store closest to you no shipping charge. I have a store close. I suppose other auto parts stores can get it for you also. My father taught me the coil's primary wire going to the points is always the same as the vehicle's ground. On a Harley with negative ground the negative coil terminal goes to the points. Thank you again.
SaddleTramp may not have also changed his coil to 5 ohm. All the Harleys that run points run that coil. I think the world of SaddleTramp, but I think he gave up far too soon on points.
@@misfitsailor they are a very simple ignition but you have to set them up properly, I think it’s often the way people time them that trips them up but the coil could be the issue.
I’ll say this though, I ran these points with my stock coil for about a week before the new coil arrived. It’s not recommended but it does work for a while. So I don’t know if the 3 ohm coil would cause his issue.
@@misfitsailor I am subscribed to Saddle Tramp's videos and enjoy them while also thinking well of him. I don't know what coil he used but the 5 ohm is the right one to use with points so I of course agree with you. As Grease's Garage stated make sure the point gaps are the same on both lobes. The tolerance, again, is 0.002". If we have 0.019" on the highest point of the narrow lobe and 0.023" on the highest point of the wide lobe, the difference is 0.004". Loosening the bolt and gently tapping the cam so the narrow lobe moves say, 0.001" more into the rubbing block should open the 0.019" to 0.020" and it stands to reason when the highest point of the wide cam lobe holds the points open the gap should have closed from 0.023" to 0.022". The difference is now 0.002" and within spec by Harley. Another tolerance to keep in mind the engine's camshaft end-play. Those knowing a lot more than I do recommend 0.011" for running points. Too much end-play and the camshaft wanders back and forth, in towards and out away from the engine too much which is a bad thing for points. Experts recommend 0.011" which is within Harley's specs but much tighter than Harley allows at the upper limit for engine camshaft end-play in the electronic ignition Evo. Since Saddle Tramp said in his video no matter how far he moved (rotated) his points mounting plate, either advanced or retarded, his points were open, he concluded the notch in the engine camshaft which locates the mechanical advance unit had been relocated on the Evo by Harley as compared to the Shovelhead. I have to question his conclusion for a couple of reasons. One reason is if the notch was moved by Harley on the Evo cam, then how can some, like Grease's Garage for example, use points successfully? The second reason, which is what I suspect to be the case, is Saddle Tramp's points plate wasn't machined properly. Others have run into this. If the curved slots for the stand-off screws were not cut in the right locations, he'd never get the points plate oriented properly which seems to be the case here. That's my scientific wild ass guess, or swag. That leaves two options. One is to put the points mounting plate in a vise and carefully lengthen the slots the right amount in the right direction with something like a round file. Their distance from the center of the plate has to be held. The other option is to track down a points mounting plate that was made correctly if the first place. A good used OEM plate or perhaps a NOS genuine Harley plate which should have been made right would be the fix.. The Harley part # is: 32618-70A.
If the screw is broken off in the center, what is the best method of removing the broken piece down in the hole?
@@JoshHarmonyTV I would buy an extractor bit set and start with that. Usually a pilot bit and then a left hand twist style bit that goes into that pilot hole
I an ditching all the electronics on my 06 sporty and instaling points with a simplified homemade electric main loom.
Love to hear it! Less is more 🤘🏼
@@greasesgarage Beauty is the simplicity, and i was so tired adout the battery get suced on and die so fast with all the useless bells and whisles of the ignition/turn signal/security module.
@@pierre-x.8386 absolutely. Lot less battery issues with less hooked to the battery. Got a new video coming this week about electrical testing that you might enjoy
What side of the coil? And will the stock duel fire coil work? 93 1340?
The way I find TDC is I'll rotate the motor until I start to feel compression with my finger over the sparkplug hole on the front cylinder. Then I look for my timing mark. When it's found after rotating the rear wheel in 5th or 4th gear, I'll drop a small screwdriver down the sparkplug hole and watch to see when the piston reaches it's peak. And boom, there it is.
That’s a good way to do it, I like that
Hey you’re not setting the points timing off TDC though right? On the evo you’ll wanna do it off the advance mark on the flywheel
@@greasesgarage That's how I do it on my 79 shovel and 76 sportster. They fire off on the kicker every time.
When setting off TDC?
@@greasesgarage Yeah. I made the mistake of timing the shovel from the advance mark. It was so underpowered and would always kick back.
Yo morning I'm doing this today, this will eliminate the voes???
Good tutorial. Do these components needs any lubrication?
Some dielectric grease on that cam lobe can never hurt and may extend the life of the points shoe
There's a specific grease for the rubbing block on breaker points. It's much more FIBEROUS than die electric, which will fly off rather quickly. Trying to help, not be a know it all.
T.S. RACING
Also regular cleaning and lubrication of the mechanical or centrifugal advance unit is highly recommended. A good sign that it's sticking is when you close the throttle, and the r.p.m.s don't drop or are very slow to drop.
@@t.s.racing this is good info I appreciate you sharing man. If you find out what that grease is please let me know I’ll add it to the description. What do you use for lubrication of the advance unit?
THANK YOU FOR THIS! What kind of coil did you pair with your points ignition on your evo? Single or dual fire, and does it matter which? Also what ohm? Sorry for the questions lol I'm trying to do the same thing on my 97 xlc.
www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/drag-specialties-5-ohm-dual-fire-coil-for-points-ignition
@@greasesgarage thanks man
After removing the electronics from my 88 Evo 883 Sportster "project bike", which is my first ever street bike outside of a SuperMoto I had years ago,, I installed the points kit as seen on your awesome video. I then ran the wire from the points / condensor connection to the coil - specifically to the small connection that is powered by the kill/ run switch. I noticed right away tha the relay between the ignition hot lead and the gray wire running to the other side of the kill/ run switch kept popping and resetting. It then occurred to me that with the points closed, the key switch ON, and the kill/ run switch to run, I was creating a dead short. I disconnected the points wire from that terminal until I can get better guidance on where it should connect. My research and simple mind tells me perhaps it should connect to the other small terminal on the opposite side of the coil where the pink tach wire connects. If my basic understanding of the coil function is accurate, that side being momentarily grounded by the closed points charges the coil... Am I on the right track? It seems unhealthy to me for the points wire to ground the coil anytime more than briefly, as in when the ignition is charged and the engine is not running. How far off am I? Thank you in advance and have a great day!
One other question that I have after watching several videos and reading different forums, is the original electronic ignition coil compatible with the points system? I have heard that one is a 3 ohm and one a 5 ohm. Which is the original and which do I need? Again, thank you for your helpful info and tips and have a great day!
You want to run that coil from the points to one side of your coil. Straight shot no switch. Then from the other side of your coil heading to the fuse block, in THAT line you can put a kill switch. For points you want a 5 ohm coil, the factory coil is a 3 ohm.
The 3 ohm coil should run it though, temporarily. I used mine while waiting for my 5ohm to arrive and it never gave me a problem but I’m told over time it’ll wear out a 3 ohm coil.
Let me know how it goes with the new wiring
@@greasesgarage Thank you. I'll give that a try next. Your help is very much appreciated.
@@rickdebacker100with the engine running, a 3 Ohm coil is fine for a test. But don't forget to switch off the ignition if the engine isn't running. A 3 Ohm coil will burn out very quickly if the points are closed and the ignition is on.
@@greasesgarage it worked perfectly! It seems to crank easily and run smoothly. I guess I got the timing pretty close from your instructions. Great video and awesome tips. Have a great day.
Wow did'nt know so many were converting my electronic ignition went out so bought another it failed so l am converting to points also on my Evo.
Glad you found the video man! I love my points setup on the evo. Inexpensive and reliable
Helllll yeah! Keep it up! Those little kick backs when kicking it over gave me fucking anxiety hahaha
Hahah so in watching the video back I realized I do a weird thing with my foot when it doesn’t kick over but it isn’t actually a kickback cause you can see me do it even when the bike starts. I have no idea why I do it 😂
@@greasesgarage Hahaha! Ok good, that shit had me fucking worried for your ankle! 🤣🤣
I will probably do this to my 1986 Softail Custom when my crane HI4 ignition that I installed in 1996 goes out. Because I do not think I could get anything that has lasted as long as the crane ignition ever again.
Agreed!
Really good video! I understand it now. I couldn't understand static timing until watching bv your video soo good job.
I have an 01 Fatboy and they sell a cam cover that allows you to convert from the stock softail ignition, to the early evo style ignition. Soo i guessbif i got it i could convert to points, or jus get a Morris Magneto setup huh?
Glad to hear it was easy to understand! You can swap to points with the stock setup cam cover that’s what I’ve got here. Can you send a link to the one you’re talking about?
And yes, a magneto is available for the evo that would be epic but it’s very expensive haha
Hear ya. Riding basically the exact same _sketchy_ bike. Been running a Comp-Fire kick-only electronic ignition since around 2008. Works, but not ideal. There's a lot of heat in the cone; might not be the best place for electronics. My earlier bikes were all kick-only with points. They work. They are simple to diagnose. Gets rid of the VOES. And if there's juice it's going to start.
Amen to that, a very simple design and easy to fix, thought admittedly it also requires a little more attention than the set it and forget it e ignition.
Getting rid of the voes is nice for guys like me who aren’t skilled with wiring
That was a fantastic video!
I just acquired an old 1988 Sportster 883 out of a friend's barn. It hasn't run for about 10 years, No Spark! The electronic pickup is kinda gooey, almosted melted looking. I was considering going with a points conversion before watching your video, but now I am 100% convinced this is for me. I am from the generation where everything had points and we made it work. The link you provided is for the year range before mine. Do you have a suggestion for a 'kit' for the 88? Thanks again for a great channel. Wish me luck!
The kit should work regardless of the year because the nose cone is the same size, is your bike carb or EFI
@@greasesgarage it has a CV40, but when I pulled it apart to clean and rebuild, I discovered that it doesn't have an accellerator pump and the parts kit did. I used what new parts I could and fingers crossed that cleaning it up is enough.
I don’t believe the CV carbs have accelerator pumps but maybe some do?
@@greasesgarage Thank you. My knowledge of these carbs is limited to what I have learned in my TH-cam University on-line masters program.
Dynatek ignitions in my opinion are the best you can buy. I have one on my 1967 FLH Shovelhead. The engine was rebuilt in 1995. It was bored and stroked to 88". The heads were dual plugged so I have two Dyna coils that I run with their ignition. Since 1995 the only thing I have had to do was replace a coil a couple years ago. I have an electric start and a kicker. It may have been the first year for an electric start. There have been many times I've had to kick start it because of my battery getting weak. I can usually get it to start on the first or second time. With the older bikes there is a particular sequence you need to follow for an easier start. I will admit that I'm only 180lbs and there are many times that the bike will stop me dead in my tracks kicking it. Compression is a bitch sometimes. It's funny you're running a 4 speed and I'm looking to put a 5 in a 4 into this.
Yea the old 4 speeds are just so much more suited to the jockey shift foot clutch setup. I was lucky to find someone who wanted a 5 speed and traded them for this one and never looked back. Factory kicker
@@greasesgarage I was actually surprised going from my 5 speed Evo to this 4 speed Shovel. I thought it was going to be way different than it turned out. The way the 4 speed is geared I don't really notice the difference. Every now and then I catch myself trying to shift into 5th just by habit. Shit with that 4 speed I catch myself having to downshift at times. Everyone I know that has swapped them for a 5 speed in a 4 speed case tells me that's the only way to go and the difference is amazing. I'm happy with what I've got and I'm not going to buy a $1500-$3000+ trans. Love the jockey shift. Some of my dad's buddies still ride Pan heads with an open primary and jockey shift. I grew up around the bikes back in the day that had 8' front ends on them with the big handmade sissy bar on the back. Choppers Rule
@@channelx92 you’re spot on. If I was going to buy a baker there’s no way I’d get a 5 into 4. A 6 into 4 maybe, because that sixth gear is an overdrive ratio, but the thing people always forget is that the 4 and 5 speeds trans both have a 1:1 top gear ratio so really it’s just some gear between 2 and 3 you’re missing and like you said, you don’t even notice it once you’ve ridden it for a while
There are electronic control modules that can be had for under $100 all day long. Why not keep a spare electronic control module?
good job man of my own heart 68 FLH
What a great bike, love the points location on those generator models
I used to buy a clear nylon plug ( see through )for the case to see the timing mark. They were only a buck and a piece of Teflon tape. I put them in and leave it.
That’s awesome it doesn’t burn up I always wondered about that
@@greasesgarage Nope, it stays the same,clear and easy to see the mark even with the oil.
@becoming-humble8745 I need to buy one of those immediately then, no reason not to have that instead of the metal plug
You have an open primary why not use a wrench or socket on your front pulley nut to turn your motor? It's easier and more precise to find your timing mark....also another plus for points is if your out and they do mess up you can get replacements at most auto part stores ( Harleys from 1970 up to 1978 use the same points and condenser as a 1970 Chevrolet 250 six cylinder)....ride safe and keep the videos coming...
Thanks brotha actually just had someone in a jam looking for points and they couldn’t find them I will pass this info along maybe with the vehicle model they’d be able to have the parts store locate them
Did you also change your coil to a 5 ohm coil? It is my understanding that Harleys with points run a 5 ohm coil and tighter plug gaps.
Yes 5ohm for points 👍🏼
Will this work on a 1996 Harley Evolution 80"? Tired of ignition modules wearing out. Thank you for the video!
Yes, that’s the same motor I’m working with here just a 1994.
Yes, that’s the same motor I’m working with here just a 1994
@@greasesgarage thank you for the information.
Cool video....My issue is I have Shovelhead with STD duel plugs and a Dyna 2000i electronic ignition. How do you set up duel points?
Let me do some digging into this for you. I’m not sure if you have to use dual points for that setup. You’ve got two coils right?
@@greasesgarage Yes...Two Coils.
Hey man, awesome channel.
Question if you don't mind.
I have a 2017 Heritage FlSTC .
28k milage adult riden. Maintenance 4k.
Do I need to remove timing cover and inspect plastic shoes??
Thanks man! To confirm, are you talking about the shoe you see in this video on my points arm
No sir just calling on your maintenance experience.
I was talking about cam shoe tensioner.
@boscodog4358 ah I see. I’ll be 100% honest in saying I’m not familiar with those newest models and their design. I know the twin cams had cam shoe tensioner issues but I would have imagined that Harley worked that out by the M8
Good vid man! Liking the format!
Glad to hear it man, trying to include everything important without getting into the weeds is a tricky line to find so I’m happy it’s helpful
I’ve watched so many videos, and I cannot figure out the timing. If you move one thing, the other thing moves, so how could you possibly time them. if I lineup the hole by moving the back tire and six gear then I’m also moving the cam so they’re constantly both in motion. No matter how many videos I watch I cannot figure this out.
Do it exactly how you see me doing it in this video. Do each step in the order I do them. That’s how you do it
Great video thanks I will probably be doing this.
Awesome! It’s very easy and even easier to carry a spare, let me know how it goes
@@greasesgarage I sure hope I'm not bothering you, I will need a single fire coil right, well if points have one wire there is 3 spots on coil not sure where point wire goes and what about the other 2 spots on coil ,Thanks
@gregorykucera4235 this video will show you in detail but long story short one wire from points to one side of the coil, other wire from the other side of the coil to your fuse block
@gregorykucera4235 th-cam.com/video/LNI9ClOKDf8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AP2Sw4H9tnuRiF8D
Hello great video 👍, my 97 fat boy has electronic ignition, until now no problem.
What are the differences whit mechanical ignition driving the bike? Like in an up hill the electronic ignition retards the sparks (right?), whit the mechanical what you have to do? Thanks
I could be wrong here but I believe with an electronic the vacuum pressure of the motor is read by the VOES system which adjusts the ECM for proper fuel spark timing.
On a mechanical ignition the flyweights on the mechanical assembly spread out as the rpm’s increase and that spreading changes the speed at which the spark gap opens. Faster rpm, faster spark delivery, and vise versa
Ok, but I know in the older bikes you have to manually retard or anticipate (I don't remember) the ignition when you are in an up hill. I don't know how in mechanical ignition it's made.
Yes, more rights the engine has and more the masses widen and changing the ignition.
In up hill the engine, maybe at low rights has to make more effort and whit not changing ignition it can knock on head.
When you are in up hill you go whit high revs or also at low revs the engine works well?
Thanks for the answer.
@@MrFabri2005oh I think you’re talking about significantly older bikes based on what you’re saying. As far as I know the only manual timing change you’ll need to make on bikes even as old as flatheads is to retard the timing a bit while kickstarting (done by twisting the magneto or distributor) but I don’t believe it needs to be done while riding.
Certainly not on my bike at least, maybe someone with an older bike can comment to confirm as well
Great info! Do you know if the points kit will work on my 1992 heritage softail flstc?
They will work on any evo softail, and they will eliminate your ecm and voes though you could keep the voes if you wanted it
@@greasesgarage thanks for confirming and for the quick response. Glad to have found your channel, keep up the great work!
I actually want to even further back than points on my 91 fxsts too a Magneto.
Even if you lose the charging system it will still run, you won't have lights but you won't be stranded on the side of the road either, especially if you added a kick start to the transmission.
I have a 78 shovelhead flh bobber with a magneto, and it got me home when my alternator quit.
Man I would love to try out a magneto on this evo! That is such a cool system
I just recently added the mag, and so far, I love it.
And I'm still checking into why my 78 isn't charging.
I suspect that it's a ground or short, and I have not had the time to get to it.
In the meantime, I still have my 91 springer and a 92 electra glide ultra classic.
Hopefully I will be able to it soon.
@greasesgarage
Dennis kirk offers a magneto for the evolution at a reasonable price and I'm considering it for a winter project.
It's a Joe Hunt mag for 1,340. I don't know much about it yet though I am trying to find information on quality and how reliable it is before purchasing.
@@rjoetting7594 if I can get my hands on one of those I will make a video
I switched over to points on my 1980 XLH 1000 Ironhead chopper that I built in my garage. I’m having some issues and I have a couple questions. The bike does not enjoy higher RPM/ freeway speed which is a problem because I’d like to get back to commuting. As of now 4th gear sputters unless I shift from 3rd to 4th at high RPM and it does not enjoy staying at higher RPM. Any suggestions? My next question is about spark plugs. I’ve read that resistor plugs aren’t good and that I should drop the gap from 40 to 30 with non resistor plugs. I’m currently running NGK 7022’s and I don’t know what non resistor plug will replace that correctly. Again, any suggestions appreciated. The last question would be regarding timing. I hear static timing a lot but I haven’t adjusted points on a Harley aside from these and I followed along in the Shovel head video you did about points conversions so I’m not sure if the hesitation is a sign to advance/ retard the timing or maybe start over and reset the points completely. Let me know what you think. I love the Ironhead and I really wanna get it back on the road.
I do gap my plugs at .28 for the same reason, someone had told me a while ago that points require that smaller gap. I’ve had good luck with it. As far as which plugs I couldn’t say, I run NGK plugs I’ll have to check the model number when I get home. I would think the hesitation is a sign to advance but maybe try just a light touch advance and see if it helps or hurts, let me know what you see
@@greasesgarage I appreciate the quick reply! I’ll definitely try a touch of timing advance along with the smaller plug gap and see what she does.
@@greasesgarage So I switched to NGK Standard Series B-6L plugs gapped at .28 and the 4th gear hesitation is 98% gone. I’d say the rest of it is coming from needing to dial in the points and the new S&S carb and possibly ditching the Bristol Breather from Prism Suppy for my old foam filter air cleaner. Maybe take a second look at the jetting again or the float adjustment as a last resort if the other two don’t fix things. I appreciate the help!
Yes the proper filter does help especially with the low end acceleration. Glad you got it sorted!
Thanks mate i really injoy watch your channel keep it up 😊
Thank you brotha I really appreciate the super thanks 🙏🏼 if you ever want to see a specific video just ask 🤘🏼
I could have sworn you mentioned something about having to use a burr to grind out those rotation slots on the points plate a little. Is that not in this video?
Not in this video but it’s the video prior on the channel, may be in the description if not I’ll add it now
@@greasesgarage oooooh ok. I thought I was going fuckin crazy 😂
Hey grease. Putting points conversion kit on my 80 model BT kick only .yes my electronic ignition did work from time to time as you mentioned in your video. Questions I have for you . Saddle tramp on here states in his video that evo's and late model shovelheads were never meant to take points as the notch on the end the cam is in a different position to early models and he could never get to points to work on his bike . Someone says in his comments to elongate the slot on the points backing plate to get more adjustments. Yet your video shows you can. I have bought the same kit as you used and it clearly says can work on later models after 78 with a points coil. I enjoy your videos and love your chop.
I disagree with that statement about it not working on evos and shovels. My bike is the living proof that it works just fine as mine has points in it and I ran them all season.
You can do this too. Some points have a taller shoe than others though and sometimes require grinding out that slot. I would check that comment again that might have been me commenting that I can’t remember but I did do it on mine while others said their points didn’t require it.
If you can’t get your points gap to close, just watch my video on grinding the notch and it’ll get you going.
I’ll also mention in his points video he times the bike off top dead center, when I’ve always been taught you set your timing off the advance mark. Idk if that’s got something to do with why it didn’t work for him but I really encourage you to give this a shot.
You will need a 5ohm coil though
Thanks grease for reply, yes I'm sure I will be fine . Some videos out there are confusing as they are mixed information. I will stick to your information in the future I think .I have two shovelheads and have been able to do everything myself on both builds just electrical is something I struggle with. Thanks grease for the info and support
@pauljones3590 Ive got a video on simple wiring with points that may help with that
@greasesgarage yes will watch that in the morning. Thanks for your help grease. I am window shopping for a evo at the moment but just can't decide as I have so much time on shovelheads but when they are having down time , an evo looks pretty appealing .lol
@pauljones3590 the shovel is cooler than the evo but the evo design is definitely superior. It’s a tough choice! I still want a shovel
Damn link says product out of stock. Any other recommendations for the assembly. 1996 dyna with stock ignition and would like to switch over to points system
www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/blue-streak-high-performance-points-and-condenser-kit-1970-79-harley-davidson
@@greasesgarage nice I should've checked them thanks for the reply
I'm still waiting to meet that guy too 😂
We all are 😂
Ye, the only little advantage electronic has is a little higher output and less maintenance. But… I always ditch electronic ignitions I just like points, easy and simple and great for kickers.
I agree! Simple and easy enough for someone like me to understand 😂
Is there a kit for a 1997 Road King ?
@@RobertCochrane-tj6kn it would work on any evo it’s not year specific
If you have an electric start how do you convert to a kick start? Is that a video you can do??
What bike are you working with? Some are easier than others
Grease! Are the steps exactly the same for a 75 shovelhead??? I have seen other videos, and nobody talks about physically moving the cam lobe to advance position inside the cone @17:00 in your video.
That’s because they’re not Grease’s Garage! Jk maybe there is a way where you don’t have to do that but in my opinion it’s the best way to know you’ve got your timing right because it ensures you set your plate at the perfect spot that the lobe will be in as it fires.
Procedure is exactly the same for you on your Shovelhead but people say Shovelheads like a .018 gap not .020. Also your advance timing mark will not match mine so don’t use my mark as the one to look for 👍🏼 let me know if you get it!
I bought that points kit for my 2003 sportster i was told it doesn't work with a 2003 i know it won't with an 04 sportster.
Getting ready to buy a dyna s ignition and trying to find out if my bike will run properly with point's
What reason did this person give you as to why it wouldn’t work?
Said it didn't run right! The adjustment slot where you move the hole plate to advance it or retard it. But i got mine running and it looks like it's in the same position as your points are the plate.
@@solarprepper1offgrid.753 yea I think they run great man I think you should go for it
@@greasesgarage I built my bike totally from ebay a few from amazon but i started with nothing but a frame.
@@greasesgarage some pictures on my channel here also.
Im having a problem getting the small lobe to come in contact with the points. Followed all these steps. Timing mark is set & turned my points plate all the way counterclockwise & the small lobe doesn’t touch when its fully advanced. Any advice?
This would be a good place to start because it’s a known problem I had
Harley Evo Points Troubleshooting: What To Do If Your Points Won't Close
th-cam.com/video/nCK965uKQfU/w-d-xo.html
Which marks do you use on a sportster couldn't find it no were and does have to be in a certain gear to set the points also I have one red wire coming from my rectifier and no back one is this the one I hook up to the positive side of battery
Each year will be different, you will need to find the page in your manual that shows the ignition timing procedure
@@greasesgarage ty
So does this eliminate the need to have a CDI ignition module?
Yes that’s correct
@@greasesgarage Would points be a good idea if I dont have a kick start? Right now I have electric start and Im looking to have a kick start sometime in the future. Im new to the EVO world. Thanks!
Hey Grease, the stock ignition module on my 97 softail died on me. If I convert to points, what do I do with the voes and the stock wiring? Can it all be disconnected? I really need help can't find an answer anywhere
If you’re going full chopper build I’d just pull all the wiring and start fresh.
You can see my entire harness and every connection involved in this video right here. And as for the voes, you can delete it. But be sure to block off the air nipple on your manifold when you do.
How to Wire Your Chopper | Part 1
th-cam.com/video/LNI9ClOKDf8/w-d-xo.html
@@greasesgarage Thank you Grease! I got it going thanks to your help. I owe you a drink if I'm ever State side or if you visit near Montreal!
Hi May I know what points are you using? Please share
These are mid USA points but I believe v twin points are exactly like these ones as well. The condenser is blue streak. Blue streak points are also great if you want to buy the points and condenser together
Why can't my hair be this cool
Tank you so match:)
I prove points ignition. & no probs.
🤘🏼
I’m having grounding issues with my points. Any idea why this may be?
What are the symptoms? Bike dying sporadically?
How about setting the gap on the small lobe, getting the plate in a general position where the bike starts, then advance unit until you hear ping then slowly back off until ping is gone. lock down get down the road.
I like it! Very efficient
Will that transmission you have fit early 90s evo’s is there any adapter plates needed?
This is a late model Shovelhead (79-84) transmission aka “rotary top”. It will fit early 90’s evos with a 4-into-5 transmission plate, paughco makes them and some others too. With that plate it’ll bolt right in.
As for the inner primary (if you’re using one) I don’t know for sure if that fits but I can do some digging for ya
Did ye use stock coil?
No I used a 5 ohm drag specialities coil www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/drag-specialties-5-ohm-dual-fire-coil-for-points-ignition
Yeah, I still set my points with a book of matches.
Love it
sooo i dont have a spare ignition on me but i had my electronic ignition fail on me once, the original sensor died
Had the same
Will it work in a 93 1200?
Yes
Why is it different inkick start from starter motor on points
So the points will work with a starter too but many electronic ignitions are made specifically to work with starters so they have three “dead revolutions” where they don’t spark before they start firing.
If you try to use those with a kicker you’ll never get it to start because your leg won’t generate enough power to get past those dead revs. This is why many people go to points when they use a kicker. Or an electronic ignition designed specifically for kickers
@@greasesgarage thank you for your reply so they will work with starter I wood think it wood start lot easyer Ben long time without riding a bike about 1969 last time for me
Ha well I am that person you have to meet. I just today this morning had to install my new spare ultimate icm bought it a few months back and well i had it with me and sadly today i had to use it yes this is all fact bummer tho i still have no spark i lost spark last nite while riding so now I'm hunting 2 single fire coils. Any suggestions to help get fire back I would appreciate. But I am the guy you spoke of. Lol
Haha we finally meet! I would check out my video on electrical testing and make sure all those components are good
I run Chevy sixcylinder 250ci runs like it should and with a bigger cam .I'm just throwing that out there,13buks
This is something I’ve heard from many people but what I can’t find is a proper link to share with my viewers to show them where to buy the ones you’re describing. Do you have a link you could share?
@greasesgarage what do you ride I have a big twin revtech (Evo type) I just walked in and asked for points for 1975 straight 6 Chevy 250 you have to tell him a truck or whatever but otherwise they can't seem to look it up but just any early Chevy 6 cylinder 250 straight six that is
@user-eq8es8xw8v also an evo big twin, jealous of wherever you’re at tho I can’t find a parts store anywhere that still has points on the shelf. They always say they would have to order it
@@greasesgarage what parts stores are where you are
@user-eq8es8xw8v we’ve got a bunch, Napa (everyone told me Napa would have them and they said no they stopped carrying them a decade ago), oreilleys, auto one, Sanel. Nobody keeps them in stock up here in the northeast. Not the end of the world though as it’s easy to order a set online
I cut my teeth on a '73 Sportster many years ago. I had to screw w/ my points so much I just left the cover off. I know how those babies work inside and out. My present ride is a '99 Evo Softail. I might just convert to points before something happens to the Module/ VOES/ sensor, etc, etc... and leaves me stranded.
I wish I had that much experience with them! That’s awesome. Love that these newer bikes can still run with them
Hello!
How do you connect the ignition wire to the coil?
It’s a female spade terminal at the points end which you can see in the vid, and on the cool end it’s a ring terminal to either side of the coil. The other side of the coil will go to your fuse block (ie power)
Köszönjük!
Thank you! I’m happy this helped you 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Trying to find out what open primary cost
I replied to your other post
That an EFI sporty motor by chance??
This is an evo big twin