Extrusion Quality - Mystery issue resolved !

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
  • 🍺 SUPPORT ME: / miragec
    How I identified and resolved my direct drive extruder inconsistent flow and print surface artifact.
    After release of this video I realized that many others have this issue. Thanks to people commenting here I was made aware of:
    Prusa Issue 602 - github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firm...
    Voron Issue 6 - github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-...
    If you like my work and would like to support my efforts in making more open source 3D printing solutions, please consider a donation or becoming a Patron.
    In this video I walk through my journey to find the rootcause of this common issue with direct drive extruders:
    00:00 Intro
    01:30 Timing ruled out
    02:04 Motion System ruled out (XYZ)
    04:16 Bowden prints better!
    05:11 Direct Drive extruder system breakdown
    06:17 Troubleshooting methodology
    07:11 First issue - Impact of hobb gear wobbling
    12:33 Second Issue - Impact of filament diameter inconsistencies
    14:39 Experimental gear from Bondtech
    15:16 Third Issue - Plastic gear from BMG may also be in cause
    16:55 Back to square one, issue is somewhere else
    17:36 Fourth Issue - New theory about "Filament Walk"
    19:35 Showing improvement from new Bondtech gear once Filament walk has been resolved
    Components used in this video:
    Fysetc better machined POM gear ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DCn...
    Bearings to smoothen the Idler (MR85) ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DC7...
    PayPal Donation ► www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_...
    You want to learn and contribute to the HevORT project?
    FACEBOOK ► / hevort
    DISCORD ► / discord
    FORUMS ► forums.hevort.com/index.php
    Thank you very much!
    MirageC
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ความคิดเห็น • 1.2K

  • @nunosantiago6720
    @nunosantiago6720 ปีที่แล้ว +801

    We at Bondtech are really proud to be working with MirageC on perfecting filament 3D printing. No matter how small the required quality increments may be, at Bondtech we always strive to improve. Actions have been taken and more experimenting will be done. The reverse integrated drive gear is just the beginning. Changes in the moulds that make our plastic main gears were performed. Additional quality controls are in place to minimize the runouts. We are sketching new designs for the gripping teeth.
    The (r)evolution takes time but doesn't stop here.
    Thank you MirageC.
    Great job🙂

    • @eduncan911
      @eduncan911 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      How would LGX Lite gears play into this?

    • @seha2306
      @seha2306 ปีที่แล้ว

      Is the normal BMG Extruder also effected by the Problems shown in the video?

    • @nunosantiago6720
      @nunosantiago6720 ปีที่แล้ว +42

      What MirageC unveiled is important. Bondtech is addressing it. However... it is a sub-prime aesthetic performance of legacy Dual Drive Technology on a direct extruder application. Always tradeoffs. Plenty advantages. This disadvantage.
      Now... remember the BB era, Before Bondtech. Filament feeders were very unreliable. Look at your feeders now. None is perfect but they are mostly much better. Open them up and look inside. More than 90% of you - not using LGX - will see a different flavour of Bondtech legacy Dual Drive Gear Technology. Why? Because it was state of the Art until LGX.
      Can we build them better? Yes! No doubt. Nothing is perfect. We are working on it.
      Remember we are a small company of 17 strong, always, always working with our community to improve our Dual Drive technologies, legacy and LGX. From my side, I'm looking forward to see what we all together will achieve next.

    • @seha2306
      @seha2306 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      ​ @Nuno Santiago I have a reality complex 3 Point Z axes like the HevORT and rebuild my printer 4 times because of the artifact shown in the video but never got rid of it. I would have never thought that my extruder may be the fault. I hope bondtech will come up with an upgrade for existing BMG Extruders.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +37

      It is such a pleasure to work with you guys. This investigation has now led us to the definition of the next FDM (r)evolution as you said.
      I would like to emphasis on one point though:
      BondTech has made their internal components available to hobbyists just like me for integrating them into all sorts of extruders.
      - Direct Drive
      - Shorter Path (gears to nozzle)
      - Different motors
      - FDM Printed self designed housing and tension levers.
      - etc...
      Sometimes these installations have been more demanding and may have not meet the initial design intentions. We have discovered some shortfalls because we are looking closer with a more demanding angle.
      I am so happy that we can now all take these lessons learned and move together to the next level!
      @Nuno Santiago: That new shaft is AMAZING!!!! I am getting print quality now that I have never seen before!
      Thank you Bondtech!

  • @mateussousa3639
    @mateussousa3639 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    Bro wrote and validated an entire PhD thesis and thought we wouldn't notice.
    What an incredible work. Subscribed.

    • @Gepstra
      @Gepstra 29 วันที่ผ่านมา

      an incredible work

  • @niksoley
    @niksoley ปีที่แล้ว +269

    Ok, that is by far the best 3D printing video that I’ve seen.

    • @androiduberalles
      @androiduberalles ปีที่แล้ว +7

      RIght? 3D printing nerd would be like "hey guys, look at this other person's model I am using and printing at 400%!"

    • @niksoley
      @niksoley ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@androiduberalles true. His is more into broad public, but I am more into hardcore maker and engineering. And this video, is engineering at its best.

    • @larryfroot
      @larryfroot ปีที่แล้ว

      Same.

    • @DaddyVet3D
      @DaddyVet3D ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Welcome to the dark side hahahah. When you finally stumble onto Mirage C’s channel you know its headed down a long path of tinkering!

    • @mwdh9100
      @mwdh9100 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I agree

  • @Vez3D
    @Vez3D ปีที่แล้ว +319

    Man!!! You made me laugh so hard when i saw that LSD acronym 😄 🤣 😂 Thanks for all research you have made. Incredible amount of work and frustration has gone into this. I was really happy to stand next to you in the process ...just holding your beer was an honor. 3D printing gets better because of guys like you that are passionate and refuse to abandon on your ideals. Im proud of you brother!!! You deserve a huge beer now!!! Love you!! Now rest a bit and regain your sleep that was left on the table in the garage. THANKS!!!!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Yeah.... passion and sleep don't mix well.. but you know that already! Thanks again for all of your "moral" support! 😜

    • @Brise215
      @Brise215 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @vez3d same goes for you!

    • @tobit6890
      @tobit6890 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Have you seen Proper Printings belted extruder? What do you think about that?

    • @johndeglavina3729
      @johndeglavina3729 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I lol'ed out loud at your 3d printing love. If you guys loop in Stephan from CNC kitchen, you'll have a super high quality 3d printing thruple.

    • @Vez3D
      @Vez3D ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tobit6890 yeah i saw it.. and MirageC and I even had that same idea and dissscussed about it before we saw proper printing do it. What an awesome guy. Im a big fan of his work. The extruder is nice. The idea is nice. Just wondering how long belts will.last at high speed with abrasive material.

  • @DaveDDD
    @DaveDDD ปีที่แล้ว +243

    This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Thank you 😊

    • @retromodernart4426
      @retromodernart4426 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MirageC Great thorough analysis! Liked and subscribed!

  • @peplegal8253
    @peplegal8253 ปีที่แล้ว +121

    The animations of this channel are jaw-dropping ! So much effort and talent put to ilustrate the subject...Everything done with such professionalism !
    I'm truly impressed !

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว

      Glad you enjoy it!

    • @persimonsen8792
      @persimonsen8792 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MirageC Every micron count's. And you are def on the right track.
      Enjoyed your, looking at my stock Ender 3.

  • @H34...
    @H34... ปีที่แล้ว +67

    MihaiDesigns has done a couple of videos troubleshooting these sorts of patterns. If you print a tapering object, the horizontal bands create a wavey moire pattern that he uses to work out how often (i.e. how many degrees turned of motor/hobbed gear) the variation occurs. Like you he found that the geared idler caused problems, but also the hobbing itself creates a very fine pattern due to ever so slightly varying diameter from the highs and lows of the hobbing.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Yes! so many aspects are impacting our prints!
      - Gear eccentricity
      - Spur gear meshing
      - hobb teeth
      - filament walk in the hobb
      and I am sure we will discover more as we regain control on the items of this list.

  • @singulartier4298
    @singulartier4298 ปีที่แล้ว +84

    I've heard it was the backlash from the idler -- but this makes SO much more sense. Thanks for this!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Yes, backlash, gear mesh, filament walking in the hobb, hobb eccentricity, they are all contributors. Thank you

    • @Nobody-Nowhere
      @Nobody-Nowhere ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Didn't MihaiDesigns point this issue out 1 year ago? That its an issue in dual extruder designs. And in the end, dual extruders are kinda pointless design... as you don't need more force to push filament through, you need more melting power so you don't need more force.

    • @dzitiatri
      @dzitiatri ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Nobody-Nowhere and also better hotend cooling for retraction.

  • @JoshMurrah
    @JoshMurrah ปีที่แล้ว +87

    After watching this video - I ran straight to patreon and signed up for the $7 tier - I loved the deep dive, attention to detail, possible solutions, and everything I saw. Thank you for your hard work!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Oh wow! Thank you for your support man! :)

  • @iavor55
    @iavor55 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    I really hope this can be modded into the latest stealthburner too, and overall becomes a new extruder standard

    • @Nobody-Nowhere
      @Nobody-Nowhere ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Should test different types of extruders, like the OMG extruder. But when everyone always uses the same and keeps claiming its the "standard" or the "best", no better options will be found.

  • @247printing
    @247printing ปีที่แล้ว +55

    Mindblowing video, thank you very much 🤩🙏 As always, you manage to make a great balance between theory and practical show casing. A perfect balance for me personally 👍👍👍

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you very much! Thanks for the feedback Albert! Cheers!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว

      @UCg1_CKT8bGmaqTpPbL8EDJg Mihai pointed at the gear meshing. If you look at 6:37 I have ruled out that phenomenon from my analysis.

  • @marsgizmo
    @marsgizmo ปีที่แล้ว +102

    excellent work on analyzing this! 👏😎

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks man!

    • @wrxsubaru02
      @wrxsubaru02 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yeah, seriously! I would never have thought about the extruder gears being an issue. He really opened my eyes to something that never crossed my mind.

  • @jakobwest4811
    @jakobwest4811 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    I cannot belive you are just putting this info out for free. What an incredible deep dive into a problem nobody knew existed. I can't even fathom the time and work that went into this. From the experiments to the CAD model sims this is just downright amazing.

    • @darkracer1252
      @darkracer1252 หลายเดือนก่อน

      i cannot believe someone would NOT put this info out for free. (unless they have millions and are planning to build a company based on this idea and basicly be a greedy piece of human filth)

  • @hayden9944
    @hayden9944 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I’m and Engineer out of the U.K. and this is really good concise work. Nice engineering! Hope to see improvement in the market after your work! 👍🏻

  • @cynic5581
    @cynic5581 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the video. It’s amazing how easy it is to look over something so small and it not be until someone else lays it out for you that it all comes together. Even on a bowden setup I have I have that artifact and it was driving me nuts because the more I worked on tighter tolerances the worse it seemed to get. Now I realize (or believe so anyway) that I was actually amplifying the problem. If nothing else this video really opened my mind in considering to having a more methodical approach to problem solving.

  • @Luke-Barrett
    @Luke-Barrett ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This was amazing! I wish more videos online would have this high of a quality research and info .

  • @johnwalshe3
    @johnwalshe3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    A nice engineering breakdown, well done. I don't have a background in 3D printing, but I work in the steel industry where we have very similar issues in cold rolling steel. Very small eccentricities in the rolls and thickness variation in the incoming strip translate into out-of-tolerance thickness variation in the rolled sheet steel (and wobbly car doors...). You can't engineer all of it out, so you have to have a dynamic control system to allow for it. Thinking about an analogy here, you would need to have a force or displacement transducer on the idler gear, to measure the effective filament thickness, and an independent measurement of filament speed, say a pulse encoder on another idler wheel. This would enable you to measure actual mass flow through the extruder - what you really want to keep constant. You would then need a controller to apply a correction to the stepper motor drive. This would effectively have two components, a cyclic one to correct for eccentricity and a slower feedback control to allow for fulfillment thickness variation. Sounds complicated, but several million tonnes of steel a year says this sort of system works. Hope this helps!

    • @darkracer1252
      @darkracer1252 หลายเดือนก่อน

      or just get a fillament diameter sensor. no need to make the extruder extremely expensive just to put a force measuring sensor in the idler wheel.
      and yes extremely expensive because this thing needs to be able to do it's job without introducing more play into the idler.

  • @hurzelgnurk
    @hurzelgnurk ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I started with 3d printing in february and have been hunting the same problem ever since. Thank you, I'm not crazy or too picky!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      This issue has prevented me from going all out with my printer design. Now know where to focus.

  • @kimtae858
    @kimtae858 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for your exhaustive research and modeling of the physical issues. I'm always amazed how far FDM has come yet perfection is still a ways away.

  • @AsherLimaPapa
    @AsherLimaPapa ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Absolutely SPECTACULAR work! The level of research and fault isolation is nothing short of professional. Thank you deeply for this!

  • @eclsnowman
    @eclsnowman ปีที่แล้ว +21

    Glad to hear you are working with Martin and the team at Bondtech. He is a great guy, and always working towards continuous improvement. Between the two of you I am sure you will get an excellent solution figured out.

  • @artemnikitin2806
    @artemnikitin2806 ปีที่แล้ว

    brother, thanks for the explanation of what I've been observing while assembling my first CW2 SB, just last night !

  • @MrJacksonXis
    @MrJacksonXis ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Here in Brazil we aprecciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for this research, it will help us a lot. Keep it going! All 3D print makers in the world have to thank you.

  • @RuiPisco736
    @RuiPisco736 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This is one of the best videos I've seen, technically well explained. You have given me the answer to one of my constant problems, I have a printer built by me, all well tuned, 3 times, and it always presents these artifacts, of course it is direct drive, I had never stopped to think that those tolerances in the extruder could be the cause. You are a genius, thanks for that research, there should be more content like this and not so many empty and unprofessional videos like the ones that abound on youtube. Thanks man..!!!

  • @dano7448
    @dano7448 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Awesome information! I love it! Awesome work! Love those belt clips as well! Appreciate all that you do!

  • @justjake5454
    @justjake5454 ปีที่แล้ว

    I really admire your dedication. I’ve been 3D printing for only about a year now and have run into several of my own struggles. The way you approach problem solving is truly inspiring.

  • @Tetsujinfr
    @Tetsujinfr ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, so much work went into this one. Congrats for your courage and patience going through this, and for sharing your path to success. Bravo!

  • @nirecue
    @nirecue ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Yeah this deserves at least $3 a month. Such a great in-depth explanation/breakdown of the problem that didn't go over my head. I also appreciate that I didn't have to wait months for a solutions/testing follow up video.

  • @groggynod
    @groggynod ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Brilliant determination and use of the scientific method to discover something overlooked by many, myself included.

  • @DEtchells
    @DEtchells ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, what an absolute tour de force of mechanical sleuthing, experimentation and analysis! Huge, huge props!!

  • @CentaXBerlin2
    @CentaXBerlin2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you very much for the extensive information shown in the video! 4 days ago i printed a test cube and had awful layer variation in it. Really didn't know why, in hindsight after watching your video probably i messed something up working on my sherpa micro extruder some time ago. Watching your video just now is really more than just perfect timing.

  • @NicksStuff
    @NicksStuff ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Bondtech, Mitutoyo, Wera, what a feast for the discerning viewer!

  • @htw007
    @htw007 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I can't imagine how many hours it took you to make all these (tests-experiments-emails-reading-sketching-video editing and a lot more). Sometimes there are videos like yours that are mind-blowing. Honestly, thank you for your effort, i hope soon this will become available for ordering. Thank you !!!

  • @speedracer9132
    @speedracer9132 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video! I just put together a Prusa mk3s and have been endlessly trying to fix calibration issues and I think you just solved it for me

  • @agepbiz
    @agepbiz ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is very interesting! I appreciate the research you have done

  • @wolffox008
    @wolffox008 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    C’est un travail de fou que tu as fait sur ce vidéo! WoW je crois que les compagnies qui conçoivent des extrudeurs ont beaucoup à apprendre de tes recherches. Merci j’ai été captivé!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Merci! Oui en effet! Beaucoup de travail... ou d'entêtement... je ne sais plus où tracer la ligne...

  • @Bigjoe0101
    @Bigjoe0101 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have had this issue for years. I will inspect my extruder's gears and bearings. Thank you so much for the troubleshooting!!!

  • @94Discovery
    @94Discovery ปีที่แล้ว

    Every time i watch one of your videos my brain starts to melt ,what in depth analysis and experimentations,hat’s off.

  • @MONEYMAN5811
    @MONEYMAN5811 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    been waiting for someone to finally put in the effort to narrow down exactly what in the extruder causes this issue. You've done a great service, and if we can improve tolerances, this is the next big upgrade in 3d printing.
    Maybe an easy way to fix the tolerances in bondtech style dual gears is to machine the gears with the 5mm shaft as part of the gear instead of a separate pin that gets inserted and set screwed in. if you're using a lathe to machine the majority of these gears (like you should), this will ensure it is fully concentric and honestly this wouldn't be hard to do at all. the only tolerances you'd be worried about at that point is how the shaft fits into the micro bearings and the 3d printed housing.
    lol just got into the part of the video where you talk to bondtech and came up with the same solution.

  • @spencerhanson7808
    @spencerhanson7808 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    This was amazing! Your results really show how important it is to spend the time to isolate variables in research.

  • @robinpalmquist3679
    @robinpalmquist3679 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What an insanely well thought-out breakdown of a subject this complex. Keep up the amazing work!

  • @LordDarthNihilus
    @LordDarthNihilus ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you, I am glad you are in conversation with manufacturers. I have heard so many bad things about direct drive extruders, like the diameter change when the two tooth wheels distance changes due to the pressure applied by the spring... I am glad I have a bowden which works just fine. I am very excited on what their solution will be, because only then I might consider changing to a direct drive. One toothwheel with an idler pulley is perfect, two "semi synchronized" are just another factor increasing issues.

  • @94Discovery
    @94Discovery ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I am glad that i became a Patreon thank you for all what you bring to the 3d printing community❤

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for your support! It means a lot to me.

  • @yeroca
    @yeroca ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Nice video!
    There's a video on CNC kitchen where he discovered a similar problem after a long search. I think it was about 8 months ago.

  • @REN92106
    @REN92106 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This opened my eyes to a very similar problem I have with my CR-10s!! Amazing experimentation and really smart thinking. Subbed. Thanks man!

  • @felipelaghetto5636
    @felipelaghetto5636 ปีที่แล้ว

    Congrats MirageC!!! This video is amazing! Super dense and informative...loved it.

  • @NathanBuildsRobots
    @NathanBuildsRobots ปีที่แล้ว +23

    I recently tested the Microswiss NG. Haven't made a video on it yet, but first prints are looking very smooth. They have a weird thing about machining everything out of billet material, but considering the difference that even a small amount of runout can cause, I think it makes sense to be so meticulous.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Yes. I am curious to try microswiss item as well.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MirageC The extruder is 2 pieces that are bolted together - the carriage plate and the extruder/heatsink. So there is probably a clean way to mount it to your printer.
      The other thing I noticed is that my v-groove wheels run much smoother on the Microswiss carriage plate. It re-uses the wheels that come with the Ender 3, but I think on the typical Ender 3 carriage plate, the 3 wheels are not perfectly in-plane with each-other, which adds a notable amount of friction, reduced stiffness, and wear.

    • @larrybowers
      @larrybowers ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@MirageC I put a Micro Swiss NG on an Ender 3 Pro and have been seeing similar issues. I all most resigned myself to not having beautiful prints that was made via the Bowden arrangement on the Ender 3. I emailed MS tech support and they mentioned the Bowden arrangement did do some 'buffering' and offered a refund. I didn't take them up on the offer and have tried to tune out the artifact the best I can.
      But this is amazing and does make sense. I've only been printing about 2 years so I'm by far no where near experienced as others.
      I would also be interested if you were to test a MS NG and see if you find a similar situation.
      Thanks and you have a new subscriber

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@greatestevar I am working on a presentation about ball-bearing induced wobbles. Basically, the cheap sloppy bearings used on most v-Grove wheel machines changes the effective diameter depending on if the bearing is on-ball or off-ball. It's a simple matter of geometry.

    • @mattsmoto6422
      @mattsmoto6422 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I’m using a microswiss NG direct drive also on my ender 5 plus with linear rails, the inconsistencies still appear. The NG is geared but the actual filament gears use the same dual gear design as the normal MS DD. It’s hard to see but if you take it apart or look deep in there it’s the same gear mech that pushes filament as the normal one

  • @gbstingley4673
    @gbstingley4673 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow, awesome vid. This is exactly the issue I was having with an OMG extruder. This video would have saved me days of chasing down the issue with mine. Even after finding my issue, I didn't fully understand what was going on until all of your hard work. Well done sir, well done.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      This issue almost had me to put an axe in the printer a few times. Glad I found the source. Now I need to work on the solution.

    • @Waynes-Wares
      @Waynes-Wares ปีที่แล้ว

      I bought an OMG extruder too, for my Ender2 Pro. I had already replaced the stock with a SeeMeCNC EZStruder, and was getting good results. I thought I would do even better with a OMG....but it was worse.

  • @chceszbyc
    @chceszbyc ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Respect man! Big work! I noticed the same when my bowden gears were worn out a bit + I used 0.05 filament. I replaced the gears, switched to 0.02 filament and the quality is back!

  • @HardCoil
    @HardCoil ปีที่แล้ว

    That was hyper satisfying to watch. Thank you for your incredible work, and following through with Bondtech. Also nice that we can basically test our extruders by varying the flow rate on such a test print.

  • @gabriell4031
    @gabriell4031 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    everything explained in this video is great. I'm not wondering why my LGX Lite seems to have this issue also. could it be drive gear and idle hears having lots runout? since there is no grub screw there is only one thing that can cause this. I hope by working with you they improve their own product standards as well. Maybe I can test the runout on these gear and see how much they might have. GREAT WORK! All of us are behind you cheering you on! Thanks for all the great work your doing for our community of plastic pushing gear heads!

  • @TIBL
    @TIBL ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hah! I had exactly this problem with my Wade-based designs years ago. (Indeed, with a sufficiently open extruder design, you can see the runout error by eye.) It turns out that a tight fit is critical for both extruder drivegears and also axis pulleys. This exact same effect occurs with XY drive pulleys. Cheap pulleys have a much wider bore than genuine pulleys, which is the entire secret to genuine Gates being better. (And I have done extensive experiments with 2GT pulleys driving a very high resolution encoder to quantify the error...) I have also been working on an even better solution for this for extrusion, too :)

  • @yakirarbel477
    @yakirarbel477 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the first video of you that I saw, and I'm must tell you that I impressed by the quality of your research and the video editing. and the thing I like the most is the logical order that you explained so good. Thank you for your video 🙏🏼

  • @sector13studios
    @sector13studios 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is the very best and most indepth research into an on going issue for all of us in 3d printing. I learned a lot.
    Thank you for all your hard work.

  • @medyk3D
    @medyk3D ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for pushing the 3D Printing limits even further. Great dedication, this is the content I'm rooting for.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you like it!

  • @TheRavikin
    @TheRavikin ปีที่แล้ว +5

    You did very good job on that research! Narrowed it down to just one element at a time and found a problem. Hats off!
    What comes to my mind is that @MihaiDesigns found out that idler gear makes difference in patterns and created more angled idler door ofr prusa i3. Could be found in this vid -> "What I've learned about your 3D printers (and mine)". And it was a year ago.

  • @TheSchane
    @TheSchane ปีที่แล้ว

    still finishing the video, but WOW! You have put so much time and delivered a clear and thought provoking video. Great Work!

  • @prongATO
    @prongATO ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Additionally, it’s hard work like yours that make the profession and hobby better for all of us. Your determination in solving your issue will make the lives of all of us much easier as a result, thank you.

  • @iammeobviously6815
    @iammeobviously6815 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Ender 3 v2s can never be properly tuned. It is fvcked up and the z bar is always slanted

  • @yuripolak
    @yuripolak ปีที่แล้ว +3

    So, what about the proper printing proper extruder, which uses belts to push the filament? That would eliminate this kind of variation

    • @moczikgabor
      @moczikgabor ปีที่แล้ว

      Exactly what I was thinking. I already wanted to try a belt based feeder as that is common in other applications, like wire confectioning and such.

  • @archetrico
    @archetrico ปีที่แล้ว

    This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!
    Somebody else said exatly what i wanted to say, so I copy pasted it.

  • @JosepsGSX
    @JosepsGSX ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing. I'm out of words with this superb piece of work. I was just passing by, but I think I better stay subscribed and check carefully your old videos and the new ones to come. Thanks for sharing!

  • @sjdennis
    @sjdennis ปีที่แล้ว

    In-depth and very well done. Look forward to seeing the solution from Bon-Tech.

  • @themeek351
    @themeek351 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a brilliant observation! Props to your diligence!

  • @X11-35-2
    @X11-35-2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow. Somebody finished the work i was thinking about. I had sooo bad extrusion issues that i started such an experiment (worse than you& never ended) but nice to see that i was right& also that you could help the community getting better prints. So much respect to you. You gonna get my first Patreon support

  • @fdmbro
    @fdmbro ปีที่แล้ว

    Very impressive. Your work is remarkable! Thanks for the deep dive on this!

  • @3DPI67
    @3DPI67 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the dip dive explanation and the amount of work you put in the video!

  • @yayanarchy8394
    @yayanarchy8394 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for making this video, I'm pretty sure I've finally narrowed down an issue I've been trying to fix for months.

  • @VascoRocha
    @VascoRocha ปีที่แล้ว

    This man is completely out of the box! Many thanks for your sharing and your work to improve 3d printing! You are great!

  • @phillifighter1337
    @phillifighter1337 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was troubleshooting this issue for quite some time. I tried all sorts of things with the gears (among others) including gluing them to the shaft instead of screwing them down as i had a hunch it may be runout but nothing helped. This video finaly gave me the definitive answer. Thank you so much for that.
    Looking forward to the updated bondtech gears!

  • @Win5Weekly
    @Win5Weekly ปีที่แล้ว +1

    People like you are the ones who build the future one small piece at a time, whenever you get discouraged just remember you are making a positive difference. Keep up the excellent work and you will get everything you deserve.

  • @WATCHMAKUH
    @WATCHMAKUH ปีที่แล้ว

    Such an awesome video. Proves that quality is all in the details. Very impressed how you broke it down right to the source of the problem. Thank you for the enlightenment!

  • @SkydivingKiwi
    @SkydivingKiwi ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I've designed a few 3D printers over the years.... And built other people's designs. This is the one part I could never get perfect - because of the time it would take to diagnose it! You did it, mate! This is without a doubt the best that happened to FDM 3D printing since Klipper. Epic video. Great work!

  • @mailtoajg
    @mailtoajg ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you very much for this fantastic video on that topic. Must be very hart intensiv work with a lot of time spend on. Please keep doing such in depth videos.

  • @mjstow
    @mjstow ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm indebted to you for your very smart thinkings on the subject. I had never considered the grub screw being an issue. Great work.

  • @NIGHTDREADED
    @NIGHTDREADED 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Easily the best 3D printing video ive ever seen with a very deep analysis and testable elimination to find the root cause, you earned my sub.

  • @solmanJapan
    @solmanJapan 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow I was just hanging on your every word! I didn't even think the print quality was bad enough I needed to care but after upgrading to an e3d hemera and seeing your video... I'm honestly blown away... You should keep doing these deep dives...

  • @alksmdlaks
    @alksmdlaks 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The live simulation of layer width to filament alignment blew my mind, that is some good stuff dude. You got a follow and a like

  • @brad3378
    @brad3378 ปีที่แล้ว

    As exciting as it is to watch you break new speed records, THIS is my favorite video so far and one that's likely to influence the entire industry.
    BRAVO!! 🏆🥇

  • @tomtlc
    @tomtlc ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this great video. Very easy and enjoyable to watch.
    I have same problems with new Creality Sprite Pro extruder. I found some info that the gears are press fitted and cant be changed. I'm afraid to disassemble it yet so it is what it is. This is a topic to keep an eye on. Kind of glad that it is not only Sprite extruder that has the problem but direct drive dual gear extruders generally.

  • @hoodio
    @hoodio ปีที่แล้ว

    this is the stuff about 3d printing i absolutely love, these tiny technicalities are intriguing

  • @MilosevicOgnjan
    @MilosevicOgnjan ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic video man, kudos to your efforts, since I know how hard it is to film and edit a video this complex. We need more videos like this in the 3d printing community - no bs, no clowning around, just straight science and experimentation. Keep up the good work.

  • @Polymaker
    @Polymaker ปีที่แล้ว

    What an amazing research project! Really rigorous and well explained. Keep up the good work.

  • @dano5143
    @dano5143 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank You thats genius. I designed based on your HEVORT a new compact machine and i use a BMG WIND all metal Extruder from Aliexpress. For my surprise my prints a very good and maybe the redesign of HEVORT helped a little. Thank you for the great work and great machine and sharing the CAD Files.

  • @acr2505
    @acr2505 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My man, this is a very helpful video. Thank you for all the investigation, i’m gonna start checking everything you said in my ender 5 🎉

  • @jarodhohl861
    @jarodhohl861 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazing Vid! Once I get my xy-motion system figured out, this will be a great guide on diagnosing a poor extruder.

  • @johnpearson9336
    @johnpearson9336 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb analysis I've always doubted things like bearing tolerances and pulsed signals so makes perfect sense.

  • @PanosMesi
    @PanosMesi ปีที่แล้ว

    Such an amazing video. The level of detail is over the top. The last few weeks Im thinking on changing my set up on my Ender 3 from a BMG clone v6 DD to a lighter extruder with BMG guts and a Nema 14. I was between Sherpa mini, Sailfin and Hextrudort. Now I know what I have to print. Although I dont know if the is any 3d printing file to mount all of those on the Ender 3.
    A big Bravo to you Sir

  • @RyoninShonin
    @RyoninShonin 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This solved a big part of me constantly failing first layer prints. Gaps at intervals was thinking it had to be the fillament and down the rabbit hole i went. A year later i am excited to dust off the printer and re-approach my trouble shooting. Thank you Miragec and Bondtech for continuing to help us learn and improve!

  • @noble7ify
    @noble7ify ปีที่แล้ว

    Damn that was a very nicely explained video, it never stops to amaze me how super small tolerances and deviations can have such big impacts when they are left out of sight and out of mind but when u start looking for them they are always so simple and logical. yet a pain in the ass get around
    Keep it up with the inspiring videos MAN!

  • @pogg01
    @pogg01 ปีที่แล้ว

    i am about to jump in to 3d printing this is amazing how the smallest of microns a print can vary
    keep us upto date with new extruder
    great video mate

  • @danilocedeno9765
    @danilocedeno9765 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for this video. I have to say I've started tackling this very same issue not too long ago this is why seeing this video made me really happy. I've upgraded my ender 3 so much, I am now changing to a belted z to combat the slight z wobble I was having but extrusion artifacts are killing me. I think my direct drive configuration and my extruder need an upgrade. The mount that I am using has too much flex which is probably introducing some issues as well.

  • @williamna5800
    @williamna5800 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video with real numbers as well as the 'why' behind it. Very well done.

  • @TheYear-dm9op
    @TheYear-dm9op ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, thanks for checking that out. I knew about flow variations causing ugly surface finish but I hadn't imagined there could be up to 0.1 mm runout there. Also all the other culprits you mentioned. Good info, I might get into this at some point.

  • @stevencheatham
    @stevencheatham ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this awesome contribution!!!
    This makes me doubt my Bondtech BMG gear internals in my Voron StealthBurner. Now I need precision internals. Or at least the tools to test them. Can't wait for certified precision extruder parts.

  • @Rolohaun
    @Rolohaun ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Amazing video! I have always had issues with the layer stacking of direct drive! Finally someone figured it out!

  • @AlexanderEresov
    @AlexanderEresov ปีที่แล้ว

    This is sooooooo thorough!
    And yes, it looks like DD extruders need way more precision than what we have ATM.

  • @flex-ranger2
    @flex-ranger2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is one of the best comprehensive videos i've seen in a while. Really enjoyed the content. Thank You

  • @flixmyswitch
    @flixmyswitch ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You Sir are a master at what you do. As a video creator I can fully understand the time and massive effort you put in to making this video, you have my subscription. I look forward to viewing more of your videos. I have done a good handful of vids on my 5 plus and still working on a few more. I also enjoy coding the ESP8266 and Arduino chip, I have so much to learn. Many thanks for this video

  • @spanners2772
    @spanners2772 ปีที่แล้ว

    What an eye opening video in great detail, thanks for all the hard work, outstanding!