ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2020
- I have been on a quest for some high current DC breakers for my solar project. While there are solar specific breakers out there, they cost a fortune so my search ended up sending me to Ali Express where i found some 125A 250V DC breakers direct from the manufacturer. First impressions are that they might actually be capable of their ratings and at $12 each shipped i cant complain about the price.
Link to breaker on Ali Express
a.aliexpress.com/_dWPyJne
Link to the Genuine marine breakers i am currently using
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
It's not much of a test without verifying that it does trip at the rated current.
Testing breaker is normally not like testing a switch... you must test the trip amp too.
Yeh....how is this a test,?
red is for danger live green is for safe
(1:00) Thermal circuit breakers are heated/tripped by current (P=I^2*R), system voltage does not have any effect at all on the trip current. The voltage rating of a breaker is do do with arc suppression, if you run a 12V breaker at 48v it may be unable to survive the arc upon disconnecting and blow up.
How long C curve MCB will trip if the load is above its rated current but below 4times rated current???
Have you shut that breaker off under load to see if it will arc over or not? Its a good test to try what happens if it trips ,arcs over and catches on fire ? My worry with most dc breakers is can they quench the arc
Did you test disconnect under fully load ?!! I think it will fireup
Steven have tested the breaker and see how long does it take to trip the breaker say like at 120% of rated current?
⚠️❌‼️ Warning! DC breakers shown (white with blue toggle) are polarized. Look closely and you can see the +&- signs. The polarization at the bottom of the breaker would of course be same as the top(straight through). They have an arc channel. To feed it backwards can cause damage or fire it you are feeding high voltage though it. They have those breakers up to 1000 volts on Amazon. DC high voltage can draw amazing arcs and can kill you. Dangerous as hell. The black rv/marine versions are only good up to 48 (56) volt systems. Use a charging resistor to load the capacitors in an inverter or charger to make them last. Use name brand of the rv type or you risk damage.
Top and bottom side both are for positive ….
@@xXAbdulBaqiXx
Thank you, I’ll correct that.
My plan was to use it as a double pole disconnect, off, on switch for solar panels, with a Anl fuse, i dont trust the marine dc breakers, unless i pay for the premium brands, im sure some doing the same, I have to test it and see if it works too
Hi Steven, I have also had the same quest; to find a low cost, low voltage, high current DC circuit breaker for my solar system. I have tested the black cased breaker you started with. It looks very nice but, has huge electrical problems. They trip in less than a minute when the marked current is run through it. When applying a long term (at least 10 minutes of operation) current, they trip at 1/3 to 1/2 the marked rating. Also, resetting the breaker changes the trip current a few percent and tapping on the breaker causes it to trip at a reduced current (up to 20% reduction).
On the second breaker you reviewed, I think these are a magnetic and thermal type. The 63 amp limitation I think is due to the case width, which limits the size of the internal contacts. I have yet to do any testing on these but, they look a bit more promising since there is an industry spec they are designed to meet. Thanks Steven for doing the informative video.
Bill just so you know these days I use a marine breaker rated at 48v. Had worked great for last 6 months
Hi, did you find any in the end? Im looking for a 200amp 24v, struggling to find any other than tomzn..
@@jmpcrx I ended going with an Outback PNL-250-DC, which is a magnetic type. It is rated at 125 Vdc at 250 amps and far superior to any of the other breakers I have looked at. It is actually made by Carling Technologies, part number FR1-X0-10-263-12A-BG. As you probably noticed, the offerings/availability of DC circuit breakers are quite limited.
@@stevenc22 Here is some more rest results since my last reply. The low cost Chinese Marine breaker you show in the video have small contacts that I rate as 40 - 50 amps maximum, no matter what the trip rating. To make matters worse, they are assembled so poorly that the contacts do not line up correctly, which induced hot spots, causing a premature trip. Also, the size and number of cables connected to the breaker, carries heat away from the contacts, which alters the long term trip point.
The DIN Rail types are a step up since they are patterned after a industry spec but, that does not always guarantee a good product, as witnessed by several of Vlogger Bigclivedotcom's videos.
With Chinese sourced breakers, if the cost is really low, I would order several more than I need, then do testing on each one to check for quality consistency. As a bare minimum, I run a calibrated 20 amps DC through each one and measure the voltage drop, which is quite telling of quality and trip performance.
The bottom line is: if the breaker is used in a "mission critical" application, I have found it best to spend the extra money and buy a reputable breaker. Also, when used between the battery bank and power inverter, before switching the breaker on, place a incandescent bulb across the breaker terminals before to prevent tearing up the breaker contacts with high inrush currents due to the large capacitance placed on the inverter DC input rails.
@@stevenc22 The best thermal breaker I could find was the Buss MRCB series. Long term trip point is about 1/3rd the marked rating. Additionally, die to thermal fatigue, they seem to wear out after about a year's use.
I would love to see them switch off with a current around 80A drawing. So we could see if the arc got extinguish fast enough. Also your Cables look kind of small. What mm² is this? How much can the Breaker handle? I want to use 2x25mm² in it.
My powerwall is wired with 8 awg wiring, good for about 100 amps. My normal load is around 65 amps on my powerwall. The 100amp BMS came prewired with 8 awg wire as well. The breaker can take pretty thick wiring, definitely thicker than what I was using for testing.
@@stevenc22 Thank you for your answer. I googled 8AWG - thats ~8mm². I want to use 2x 25² (AWG3)(Ampere will be around 200Amps). So iam not sure if the brakers can take that. want to use 2x125A Breakers but need to connect them somehow...
I looked, it could maybe take 4AWG wiring at most.
@@stevenc22
quote _"My powerwall is wired with 8 awg wiring, good for about 100 amps."_
...... and you're using a breaker which is rated for 125A??? I'm sorry, but NOT GOOD! BIG FIRE HAZARD! *YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING THAT!*
You should be using a breaker rated 80A or 100A at the most!!!!!!!!
Your video shows a VERY bad and dangerous habit/example. Down voted for it. :(
Secondly, as far as I know 8 AWG or 10mm² is certainly NOT rated for 100A, but only around 63A (depending on the type of application).
@@youMarv21
25mm² = 4AWG and indeed the proper cable thickness for 125A breakers. Anything thinner and you'e not doing it properly/to code/safely ;-)
PS: also make sure your equipment can handle 125A, otherwise it may get damaged anyways.
Any updates 3 years later on these tomzens
Thank you, sir.
I bought these on aliexpress.
2x 2P 100A DC600V TOMZN STILL WORKING
2X 2P 125A DC600V TOMZN FAULT AFTER 6 MONTH (1 tripe at 90A)
2X 4P 125A DC1000V EARU 1POLE FAULT AFTER 3 MONTH
1X 2P 150A DC240V TAIXI STILL WORKING
max 58.8V 200A test
I have the exact breaker in 2P hooked with my 400ah Lithium battery running easily over 100amps.
These are for your panel wires going into the charge controller, always fuse your power cable from your battery to the inverter.
This will definitely have someone thinking that if a circuit breaker is capable of carrying that specific amp that it is also capable of tripping on electronic anomaly.
Hi, is this circuit breaker enough to protect Lifepo4 batteries or should it be combined with fuses?
I always use a fuse as well
I may be wrong, but I think that marine breakers are magnetic, and the solar breakers are thermal. I just had the same issue with a 50A thermal breaker (inline bullet design) falsely tripping at 24A@30Vdc. I just ordered a 50A marine breaker to replace it..... hoping that this will solve the issue.
Thanks for the informative video.
Funnily my main breaker these days is a marine breaker !
@@stevenc22 You get what you pay for. I installed the 50A marine breaker, and it works great. No false trips, and the solar panel voltage to the mppt controller is 2v higher than with the original thermal breaker. Win ! Win !
The Tomzn breakers are both, the primary trip method is magnetic but they also have a secondary thermal trip mechanism.
Trying to built a 48v system. Can you give me some advise how should I connect my panels and batteries either series or parallel?
We need to know more about your system, but here are the basics. You will need 14 Lion battery packs in series in order to make a 48V battery. Most charge controllers need your solar to be 1.5x to 2.0x the battery pack voltage, so you will need 75V-100V of solar. (But read the charge controller specifications for a 48V system)
My solar panels will be connected in series and parallel with a result of 90V and 64A. How thick will be the solar wire I need? Thanks again from your help!
@@stevenc22 Hi Steven, wouldn't you need 15 batteries? (3.2*15=48V)
@@rory6089 sort of. The problem with 15s is fully charged it will be 15*4.2 = 63v which is too high! So we use 14s which will only be 58v fully charged.
How has this breaker been working out for you? Good job on the video.
Henderson my main system doesn't use this breaker. I use a marine style breaker which is more compact. But many people use this style breaker in their systems
@@stevenc22 ok thanks for the prompt reply.
Also it isn’t recommended to use a fuse holder switch as a switch on a regular basis. Isn’t designed for regular switch use. Use something else for a switch. A disconnect switch that is designed for opening circuits under load. I also prefer not to mount such circuit items to wood. I use metals.
You called that testing? I was expecting the breaker to trip at +/- 125A but none.
Parallell connect 2 breakers double the amp volts remain the same
What's the capacity of your Battery pack? are those 18650 cells?
Yes 18650. That Powerball is 11kwh. It's 1120 18650's total.
You need to test if it actually breaks at 120+ A Without catching on fire...
Watts is what heats the internal bimetal strip, but it's I*I/Rstrip, not I*Vsystem
When you say AC is running. Is it s 3-4 ton unit.
You would swear it was 3-4 tons based on the current draw, but actually its just a LG 13000 BTU portable AC unit i have in the garage.
Abb s202 its good for battery ?? With 48 v
Technically that breaker is only put rated for AC current. Not DC current.
China makes some high reliability ultra slow blow breakers.
Just a wire and a switch inside.
maybe test it actually breaking the circuit?
Your 12V breaker is having contact issues, not because of the current, but because it's a 12V DC breaker! It's about the current *and* voltage in DC breakers, you can't just match the watts using any voltage/current combination. That breaker was rated at 12V because of the arc it will produce when it trips. At 30V the arc is going to be a lot more difficult to terminate. The extra time it takes to extinguish produces more heat on the contacts and has left permanent damage on them. The voltage must be under the rated amount at all times to prevent arcing when it trips.
Are you in the US? I ask because Fahrenheit.
Yup. Houston but I was born overseas.
Is it a quality product then?
Yeah I'm pretty happy
I have some tomzn products, not all of them work. be careful
Its good? TOMZN ?
Tomzn is good
@@stevenc22can you test TOMZN 1P+N 16A ? maybe a video? but I'm afraid that the circuit breaker won't trip in case of failure and that they'll start to burn 😅
Tomzn TPN 1P+N @@stevenc22
what a waste of time... didn't even test over 125A to see if it trips..
Before the dc breaker trips on a 125ah current the cables would probably melt in less then 3 min
Breakers are designed to save cables from melting, in this case the cables are waaay to small for this breaker. This whole video is shit@@kevorkyacoubian6115
No no no... Don't be impressed with those . They are just switches NOT breakers without any safety . Open one of them up and you will see.
That is not a good test
Wait a second.
Are all your cabling and components also rated for 120A then???
If not, *you are creating an extremely dangerous situation and fire hazard here!*
A breaker/MCB like that is there to protect your cabling and components for over-current, nothing more.
It is also not there to protect you/human from electricity or life-threatening currents, that's what RCDs are for, which are completely different than MCBs.
So, if your cabling and equipment is also not rated for 125A, then this breaker is useless (well, maybe to protect for just a short circuit, but still... since the MCBs are rated much higher, they might even not break in time, or worse, react at all).
So, *you should be using breakers which are rated for the maximum current your system equipment and cabling can handle*, NOTHING MORE! Any higher rated breaker is useless to protect it and in fact dangerous.
If you pull more than 63A, you should also upgrade _ALL_ your cabling and equipment so they can handle 125A or more.
(note 80A and 100A should also exist and much better suited for your setup as far as I can tell from your video here)
A breaker is also not a switch (I got the impression in the video you said you used it to quickly turn off everything?). An MCB should never be used as a switch. It has a limited lifetime and constant switching it off/on yourself will damage the contacts of the unit and shorten it's lifespan and safe working ability considerably.
And a note about quality/price/Chinese products: As much as I love Chinese products, electronics, gadgets and stuff, and as much as I buy them all the time, especially from AliExpress, be very careful trusting your home and life with those Chinese MCBs/RCDs products! I have seen quite a lot of catastrophic failures of those on many occasions.
Also, you said "from the manufacturer store"...note that those stores on AliExpress are not always the original manufacturer!! On the contrary, quite a lot of those stores are nothing more than resellers who have copied the name of the manufacturer to look genuine, but are not linked to the manufacterer at all. And as long as nobody bothers to check or report, AliExpress does not remove or block those (re)sellers; there are a lot of 'stores' selling counterfet and even pirated and illegal stuff on AliExpress.
Secondly, there are also many Chinese manufactures which produce low quality products. Even labelling them with holograms, CE or QC marks, etc. They are not necessarily counterfet per say, but such labels and marks also will not guarantee high quality standards either. The only way to check is of they have an ISO-standard and if those do apply to the sold product (which is extremely difficult to check as a buyer).
So, I'd be VERY careful with such stuff, especially if your house, or worse, your life, depends on it!!! *You really get what you pay for in this case!* There is a reason why MCBs/RCDs are not that cheap (well, ok, besides capitalism, but still) If it seems too good to be true, it probably is in this case. Again I can't stress enough how dangerous many of those MCB/RCDs from China often actually are!
Note: I can't find any link to that "official store" on AliExpress at all from their official homepage though. They do link to Alibaba from their official homepage. Also no links to their home page from that "official store" on AliExpress. Most real official stores do have links to their home pages and vice versa. Not saying that seller isn't the "official store"... but yeah, some bad indicator flags are raised though.
Interesting take. Quite insightful. What would you use for say a dc solar switch?
@@techtactics788 Depends on what you mean by 'dc solar switch'.
Do you mean a switch as in: being able to turn it off and on, like a common light switch? Or do you mean protecting against short circuit, surges, ground faults, etc, etc. Because for all those things you need very specific devices. And one can not be used for the other.
eg: a breaker should never ever be used as a switch. It isn't designed to handle that. The same goes for an MCB, etc.
The (way overused) common phrase _"It just works"_ isn't a valid reason here, when dealing with electricity, and especially with high currents like that.
And what do you mean by 'switching solar'. Do you mean turning of/on the converter? The power from the PV panels to the converter? The power from the converter to your grid? .....
So, in order to know what you exactly need, you first need to established what it exactly is what you're wanna do, what the purpose is. Do you need a switch, a breaker, a MCB, a surge protector, lighting protection, .... ? And for what specific part of the installation?
Then you need to look at your installation and determine what the possible maximum currents and voltages are for that particular circuit (and also if it is DC or AC). Also, how many phases do you wanna 'switch'/protect. For DC that would usually be just 1 phase, meaning 2 wires/poles, meaning you can decide if you wanna use a double pole or single pole switching (double pole is always the safer option). For AC it highly depends and can be from 1 phase to 3 phases (meaning 2 wires to 4 wires, including neutral).
With all that information you either go to a professional contractor/electricien, who can steer you to the proper device(s).... or you search yourself for the proper device(s) directly (but for that you need *very* good knowledge of electricity).
All in all, and since you asked the question (so I assume your knowledge of electricity isn't that good to safely determine it yourself), I strongly advise to contact a contractor/electricien, who will be able to give you the advise you seek in person, and who can first take a look at the installation and check things out!
Unfortunately, many such devices cost money (and yes, they are sometimes overpriced). But please do not trust cheap 'alternatives'. Stick with the known brands. That's the main advise I can give. Remember, there is always a time and place for things. But when dealing with house hold electricity, on which your house and life depend on it, you shouldn't consider cheap knock off stuff. Better to pay a bit more, than to pay with your house/life. ;-)
@@CookieTube Thank you.
By saying dc switch, I meant a solar pv disconnect switch to turn off current to the charge controller. In the UK, we use dc isolators usually for homes which are big, cumbersome. I was just looking for a smaller form factor for off grid use. It's just a simple DIY solar dolly/sack truck type with mppt, inverter for light electrics where I'm at. It's unusual to find good dc rated breakers hence stumbling on this video.
@@techtactics788 Yeah, switching high load or high current DC is a very nasty business! Lots can go wrong! A lot more than with AC actually.... That, plus the fact it has far less practical applications than switching AC loads, equals: much harder to find decent ones, less choice. And when you find them, they cost money.
Maybe you might have more success in finding so called 'contactors'. These are glorified relays. But, it means you need another energy source (and often permanently) to control them. But this can then be a 'simple' 24V battery or something. I dunno if that would be ideal or prefered over a manual switch. The need for another energy source is the biggest drawback of these in your situation. The benefit is you can control it from a distance with a simple small switch.
I think the cheapest, best and especially safest, is still to contact an electrician or someone who sells/installs solar panels.
PS: if you read some of the other comments from a few years ago, you'll get another idea of how sketchy and extremely dangerous such Chinese products can be.
@@CookieTube Thank you. Appreciate your response. Very knowledgeable and will go with your advice.
South african oke using pounds and fahrenheit... you hella confused bra..lol
Lol yup but after 20 years in the US...
What you are saying makes no sense at all. Only the current trough the breaker matters: P = I^2 R