@@nyan5785 As if Joffrey would listen. You saw how he insulted his own mother right? He outright talked about Cersei and Jaime's incest to her face...Yes she slapped him, but she went full sub again right after.
If you believe that Sansa has a claim to Riverrun, but wouldn't that mean that Robin and his Knights of the Vale has a stronger claim since he is a male heir??
I agree that it's messy. I'm not about to say it's cut and dry, but I think Robin Arryn may be right on this one. Since Sansa is Catelyn's daughter (Cat being the oldest daughter of Hoster), it probably passes to her...but who really knows. Like Robin said, it's messy.
Didn't they say in the most recent season that Edmure Tully had a son with Roslyn Frey. Even though he is in the Frey's control, he would be ahead of Sansa, Robin and he would be the legitimate successor to Edmure (if we're assuming he was out of the picture)
Well, for one, Edmure has a son with Roslyn, so it would actually go to _him_.. But let's say that he's too young, Edmure's out of the picture and Rosyn Frey and her relations are too weak to put a claim in because the Freys are cunts. Well, the rules of succession state that it should go to the _next male heir_ and ONLY if there is NO male heir, then it will go to the eldest female, which would be Sansa.... And let's be real though, Robin's not long for this world. And depending on whether or not Robin claims it first, and whether or not Robin _himself_ has an heir to receive Riverrun, then it would definitely go to Sansa.
I'd have to research more, but basically nothing would've changed I think other than Renly's death. Nearly all of Renly's men went to Stannis' side before they even fought. The only ones who didn't were the Tyrells, and they wouldn't have fought if Renly was supporting Stannis (Mace desperately wanted Margaery to be Queen; couldn't do that under Stannis). Sadly I think it would've been pretty similar :(
The tyrells may not fight for Stannis, but they may not fight for the Lannisters either. Loras loved Renly after all and he may still join him. The tyrells like the martells could remain neutral. Without Stannis vs Renly, Stannis is able to march his army much sooner against KL, and would probably win at blackwater... You already made a video about "what if Stannis win at BW", and I think everything will follow as in your video, but Renly would be the Heir. Margery could still marry Renly, and the tyrells plot to kill stannis like the killed Joffrey.
Well at least this is the first time a TH-camr answered my comment :D, but I think that the Tyrells would have fought for Stannis because of Renly being heir etc. and maybe Robb Stark and the Vale would have been more inclined to supprt him aswell instead of declaring independence and staying out respectively.
Haha, I try to answer all of the comments if I can! :) Robb Stark did support Stannis actually, problem is that Stannis didn't support Robb (since Robb wanted an independent North and Stannis saw all of Westeros as HIS to claim). I appreciate your comment my friend! :)
Joffrey would still die after Sansa told the tyrells that Joffrey was a monster the tyrells concocted a plan to kill him and marry Margery to a far more easily manipulated king Tommen
A lot to disagree with here. Starting with the purple wedding. The Purple Wedding had nothing to do with Sansa marrying Loras or Tyrion. Olenna needed to get rid of Joffrey to protect Marg - and getting rid of Tyrion just happened to be cherry on top. So the wedding, the trial and the aftermath would likely go down as before - the only difference would be that Sansa would remain in KL, still unwed and still a hostage, watching everything unfold from the gallery. And because she isn't Tyrion's wife in this case, everyone dismisses her as a potential suspect because she is too powerless to do anything. Another thing you might have gotten wrong is the Tyrell's proposed timing for all this. As long as Tywin's in charge, they can marry Sansa off to Loras, but they don't need to rush into a rebellion. Remember, the Starks and Tullys were rebels - so they were stripped of all lands and titles. By the King's decree, the Boltons legitimately hold Winterfell and the Freys legitimately hold Riverrun. As far as the Crown is concerned, Sansa Stark has no claim to either of those places, no matter how many loyalists her name might attract. As long as Tywin is alive (and pissed at Tyrells for stealing Sansa), this would be his position and if Tyrells try to press Sansa's claim, they'd only create unnecessary conflict. But they don't have to do that - they can simply wait for him to die and for Marg to become the sole voice in Tommen's ears. Ofcourse, if the fallout from the Purple Wedding follows course and Tywin is killed by Tyrion, they might be in the position to press Sansa's claim by season 5. The biggest advantage of waiting here would be that they won't need any conflict to establish Sansa's claim at all. Margaery would just need to whisper in Tommen's ear and he'd decree Sansa's lands and title be restored and the Freys and the Boltons punished for treachery. And just like that, order is restored and justice is served without a single sword drawn. Arya's story also goes through a big change here. Without Sansa's presence making Lysa jealous, her and LF's union would last quite a bit longer. No flying through the moon door for her - not yet, anyway. Which means, when the Hound shows up to sell Arya, she probably ends up right with LF and her crazy aunt. This has the potential of getting pretty messy. LF wanted a Stark girl to get his claws into the North and Arya would be a suitable candidate. But Arya is not Sansa - she won't trust LF, nor would she go along meekly with his plans. She might outright refuse, she might try to kill LF or if he manages to get her to the North, she'd definitely try to kill Roose, Ramsay, Theon and probably a few others. How that would end up is anyone's guess.
Tend to agree with this. Tyrells would still want Joffery dead they just wouldn't be able to use Sansa to do it but Tyrion would be in the frame still. The Tyrells would not be able to take the North even with Sansa unless Tywin was out of the picture.
I get what you’re saying but the whole marrying Sansa with Loras was a Tyrell plan that Olenna was definitely involved in. So she was probably going to wait for Margery to have that power to influence the marriage with Sansa and Loras. But since Cersei found out and had to it stopped, Sansa instead married Tyrion and that foiled the plan so Olenna went ahead and killed Joffrey right away.
@@LovelyGamer115 The point is though Cersei found out before Margaery married Joffrey, which is why Sansa was married to Tyrion so quickly, so the Tyrells couldn't wriggle their way out of Tywin's ultimatum of Loras marries Cersei or joins the kingsguard. If they never find out, then there's probably a good chance that they won't marry Sansa off yet, they have no need to, and I imagine they'd be waiting to see how things develop in the north now Robb Stark is dead before deciding what to do with her which leaves the time to get to the purple wedding, and then they'd have Joffrey's death to deal with so Sansa would take a back seat until Margaery marries Tommen. Given Olenna did it to stop Margaery marrying a monster who would hurt her, she would have had to have killed him before the wedding night, she had no idea what he'd be capable of if left alone with her and didn't want to risk any harm to Margaery, so the wedding was the best shot they had
agreed with this. the tyrells never actually framed tyrion anyway, olenna intended for it to look like an accident. it was cersei who pointed her finger at her brother, and it's not as if margaery would ever throw her grandmother under the bus just to defend him, so he became the fall-guy, but it was not through the tyrells' doing.
Sort of yeah. Varys spoke with Olenna and before he could say what the answer is, Olenna came up with it as well (to marry Sansa and Loras) to get Sansa out of the grip of the Lannisters/away from Littlefinger! Thank you Ummi :) Glad to have you commenting!
Maybe you did this? WHAT IF Ned Tells Catlyn about John's parents when he returns from the war? OR What if he tells her just before he goes to King's Landing?
So few people notice that Loras was a skilled warrior from a culture that prized martial accomplishments. Highgarden was a wealthy kingdom with a large, well equipped army. Alliance with the North would have brought them into conflict sooner, but probably better prepared.
/pol/ 18th armored autism batallion First of all, it makes no sense for Stannis to just charge to Winterfell its just sloppy writing that made him lose. But if Brienne did let Stannis live, he'd never serve as a general for Jon, he'd probably try to make a new force and start guerilla warfare against the Boltons.
they have no reason to do so. Rob doesn't want to be king, he just want the North to be free and have his sisters back. Joffrey (despite how bad he was) was the only one the Tyrell's could gain for after Renly's death
It could've happened if Rob put the Tyrells on the throne in exchange for an Independent North. They're not married into the throne, I mean directly sitting on the throne.
Dynastically it would be a boost for House Tyrell if they would have been able to have Loras and Sansa married. And I think the Lannisters would not help the Freys. Considering that they turn out to be pretty much useless. At least this is what I gathered from Jaimy and Walders conversation in Season 6. It might even be rightout War between the Freys and the Tyrells, when Walder tries to pull one of his stunts again, blocking the crossing and all that. And I doubt Loras, or if Randal Tarly is in command, would have none of it. Economically it may also be good for House Tyrell, since the North would be a new market for any goods produced in the Reach. Not just the Food. In return there could be imports from the North to the Reach, like Lumber, Furs and other things. These could be gained much cheaper from the northern Houses.
Stephanie Broadwater not necessarily, if Robb was able to make his way North again he’d have been able to rally all of the North (besides the Boltons and Karstarks) to his side and he’d have been able to take it back, and once he did that he would have won because they can’t invade the north, it has never happened throughout the entirety of the story’s history
The Tyrells are interesting. They're not nice people exactly, but they're not wantonly cruel, and don't usually let pettiness get the better of them. Funnily enough, Arya and Loras would probably have a happier, though likely childless, relationship. He'd find her a bit funny and can dismiss her behaviour as "just a northern thing", and she'd just not be all that interested in him. I also wonder whether or not the North would start to be a bit like Dorne, where women can inherit
Two other 'What If' ideas: 1. What if Littlefinger managed to get Brandon so pissed at him that in their duel for Cat Brandon killed him. (Or his wounds in the duel had killed him, if I remember correctly his survival was a close call in the first place) 2. What If Ned got engaged/married to Ashara Dayne before Brandon's death (he wasn't an heir, Ashara was from a noble house, one held in kind of a high esteem, what with the famous Swords of the Morning and all, politically there was not much against it) As always, an awesome and interesting video!
To add to that slightly. What if Laurice (sp?) was able to blow out the candle in time? It's still fresh, but that would already shift EVERYTHING in the show.
Lancel. but yes, if Lancel was just a LITTLE bit quicker, he would've put out those candles. Season 7 would flip over pretty greatly if that were the case. Though, with Margaery still queen (assuming that's still the case if the Sept of Baelor wasn't destroyed), and Daenerys sailing to Westeros, I can only wonder what kind of connection would happen with that.
Before I start my comment on this, I just wanna thank you Kev and show my appreciation. Not just because I love your vids but as far as GoT you tubers go you are one of the only 3 creators who actually have interacted with my comments. I know some channels are bigger than others and what not and still take that into consideration, that being said the fact that you actually interact with your comments means a lot to me 🤗 now on to my comment about this vid in particular ... 😛 love this “what if” !! I enjoy them all in general of course 😛but if things would’ve played out this way i think it wouldve made a great plot !
If Peter won the duel and (somehow) also Cat's hand, the entire book series and TV show would have to be re-written from square one. Almost everything that happens in Westeros is because of Mr. "Chaos is a Ladder" wreaking havoc for his own purposes. Doubt he'd be so angsty if he was getting it on the regular from his lady love.
Daniel Rivett there is a short film on TH-cam called the wild wolf. It's a small independent film, about the duel between Brandon and Peter. It's worth a look.
And would The Vale join Stannis' cause then? A Stark-Arryn-Baratheon alliance just like old times, except the rest of Westeros is so wrecked from war that they'd have a pretty easy time sacking King's Landing from the north. Who's left south of the neck with an intact army besides the Tyrells?
I think that the Purple Wedding was inevitable, with Sansa wanting to stop Joffree and Ollena Tyrell wanting to protect her granddaughter, Margaery. So I think that it would be more likely if they were both still available after Margaery's marriage to Tommen.
@victoriadk2434you could say that the Tyrells would know Sansa would get blamed for it and they don’t want to risk her being executed before she can marry Loras. So they hold off from killing Joffrey until after the wedding so they can protect Sansa
What if Tywin and Jamie’s agreement went through, where Jamie leaves the Kingsguard to resume his role as heir and they give Tyrion mercy and send him to the Nightswatch. How would this affect the series as a whole?
Robert would still get gored by that boar, and nobody else in KL would probably have the guts to try to stop Joffrey from taking the throne even if they knew he was a bastard. Stannis would have never gotten Ned's letter about the incest, so why would he object to his nephew becoming king? And what would it take to make someone like Ned rise up against the Iron Throne? Assuming Joffrey just keeps being Joffrey I'm sure he'd do something to spark a rebellion soon enough.....
Honestly if it came to it I think Loras would at least try to have a baby with Sansa. After all, he was the one telling Renly people were suspicious and laughing at him when he couldn't do that with Margaery.
I agree. He could probably be aroused long enough to sleep with Sansa a couple times to have an heir with her. He would just have to pretend Sansa was Renly. Or he could also train himself to also be aroused by women alongside men.
You are easily the best you tuber I watch as the content you make is brilliant and you always try to see all the comments. Love your stuff keep it up. 😀
TheBattProductions well I would put my list of what ifs but you can just look at your last vid so no point in repeating my self over and over but I have one what if reygar announced publicly that he and Leanna was going to elope he's the prince after all and it's not like targarinans could not marry more then once I personally think that if Peter did not spin the news so horifficaly that the north would of been ok with it I mean but I do think this may have ended up in Robert dieing on his own maybe with Ned but if lord ricard and Brandon don't ride south because Leanna was kidnapped I don't think Ned could of done anything this means Kat will have married Brandon stark and Ned would most likely married ashara Dayn
Not sure if this was mentioned or not. Loras was a Kings Guard so could not have married Sansa in the first place. It was stated that she would have married Willis Tyrell, the heir to Highgarden. @TheBattProductions are you going based on the TV series or the Books?
I realize this is two years late and several people have probably already gone through this in the comments already, but there's one really big gaping Stark shaped hole in all of this. Putting Bran aside, because he'd be busy in this scenario, if the North is rallying behind a return of Stark power and the retaking of Winterfell, it's not going to be long before Rickon is delivered to his sister and her husband. Sansa's not going to turn her brother away, and as (then) Ned Stark's only living true born son, he'd have the claim to the seat. So even after all that work and careful planning, the Tyrells would get stuck with the issue problem. And even if Riverrun is claimed as part of Sansa's heritage, then as a male heir, it would likely be Rickon's automatically as well. At which point it might have to be discussed who was moving where. All of this of course, only for Bran to show up some time later, and possibly Arya as well. Which is GREAT for House Stark and the North, but an absolute kick in the pants for the Tyrells. Though, Olenna would probably already have some Tyrell girls in the wings for just such an occasion, because she is nothing if not prepared.
I was just about to say that the likelihood of Olenna letting an unattached heir go to waste, is pretty low- & beneficially for the Tyrells, they can have the benefits of positioning their people to ‘help’ Rickon, but they can also recall Loras & Sansa back down South- either to present an alternate claim to the imprisoned Edmure & his half-Frey child on Riverrun &/ or Harrenhal, &/ or, make an alliance with Sansa’s cousin Robin (I don’t think Baelish would let Lysa live long- she had a set amount of purpose; poisoning Jon Arryn, keeping the Vale out of the war, & marrying him- & once she served them- he’d need to move his plans along, & she’d really only be a hindrance). With the Vale having strong warriors, being a good food production region- & essentially untouched by the war - with this alliance stretching from the North to the Reach; even if the Lannisters *wanted* to stomp on them, they couldn’t- essentially, they’d be reduced to doing what they did at the start of the war- raids on the smallfolk & creating terror, but it would never have the same kind of effectiveness- they (the alliance) would calculate likely targets, & have a greater force waiting, to destroy the raiders. Also, the Riverlands is mutinous & divided under the Freys & Lannisters- if there was such a powerful triple alliance as this, the Freys & their (bare handful of) supporters would be completely isolated- the Blackwoods & Mallisters were leading supporters of Robb, so they would likely transfer their allegiance to Sansa & Loras in a heartbeat. The Lannisters _might_ consider fighting back, but only because one of them (Genna) is there- & to keep a pathway open- if they didn’t consider the risk worth the reward, they might just negotiate for the release of Genna & her kids & their other placements, & say ‘f you’ to the Freys, & formulate a ‘new world order’, as it were- to put in place at a later date, without having to accommodate Walder Frey.... Sorry for the rambling, lol...
If the Tyrells take back Winterfell and kill the Boltons, Rickon would not have died either, at least not like that, and then wouldn't he definitely be the heir to Winterfell as a male son? And if Stannis wasn't worried about taking back Winterfell, Shireen shouldn't have been burned...
There’s another benefit for Sansa, once she has Loras’ kid in her; because I do think he’d manage a family honor boner for long enough to get her pregnant, arguably the second or third smartest person in the game at that time Olenna Queen of thorns will have a direct interest in making her wise up so her great grandchild lives, Sansa might end up in a similar or maybe even better position as a strategist in the game as she did by end of season 7
Good point for the North and Riverrun. The Tyrells have the largest army in Westeros. Littlefinger would try to put the blame of the red wedding on the Tyrells, but I think he would probably have poisoned Joffrey with Olenna as they dit but he would have framed Sansa for it, so that she would have no other choice but to leave with him. She would definitely be present since it would have been her good sister wedding. Great video as usual. Still waiting for a what if video about Catelyn Stark! Love From France:
Omg I've never been this early. And is something different about you today? Maybe the beard? I'm excited to watch the video. I'm wondering when will you make "What if Jaime kills Ned in season 1 episode 5" video. You mentioned it earlier. Thank you and have a good day!!!
Haha. Maybe. I shaved my facial hair off like a day or so ago! Well thank you :) And that WHAT IF idea is a great one! I just randomly pick one that speaks to me each week AND that I can find enough to speak about for 10 minutes or so. I haven't tried to write that one yet, so I'll have to look into it!
Love what you’ve done here, it’s a really interesting perspective But... do you seriously think the Lannisters and especially TYWIN would let the Tyrells get the North, the Riverlands and à super strong position in King’s Landing ?? I’m pretty sure Tywin would wage war against Loras the moment Robb’s last breath crosses his mouth
The umbers would give rickon back and wouldn't his claim be better than Sansa's. Instead i think Baelish would probably attack the twins using the night of the vale as he would convince the lannisters that the Tyrrell army is moving towards it ( to avenge the red wedding and to extend their power) but in this way the lannisters have the twins under their influence with baelish decieting loyalty
Loras could have a trueborn child. He just needs to close his eyes the whole time and think about Renly. Unless Loras was the bottom. (Loras was probably the bottom.)
Sansa ALSO has a claim to Harrenhall from Cat's side. I wonder if they'd try to claim that as well? After all, it's not like Littlefinger's ever even set foot in the place..
Great What If video Kevin, I am looking forward to watching your livestream. What if the Mountain names Tywin Lannister as the man who gave the order when he is fighting The Red Viper...
Why thank you Andrew!!!!! I appreciate it, man. That's an interesting situation if he did...I mean, does Oberyn just flatout spear Tywin? Or what? It's certainly a crazy result.
@@gfilmer7150 Baratheons would become invincible. Littlefinger would be thrown out of the small council. Cersei and Jaime might get executed if they are discovered and Stannis brings the news to his brother the king.
@@bribli2177 Stannis will rally Westeros against The Others but when Daenerys arrives, they have to join forces temporarily. Once the war is won, Stannis and Daenerys fight. Daenerys might win she’d take heavy casualties.
I mean from what I can see (by no means an expert, just a fan :) ), no war between Starks and Lannisters, John Arryn still lives so Robert Baratheon doesn't go north to ask Ned, Ned doesn't end up executed, maybe Cersei still kills her husband so he doesn't find out about her and Jaime and the kids, after that idk. It basically takes away the whole premise and start of the show lol.
The Blackfish was disinherited by his brother Hoster Tully (Edmure and Catlyns dad) When Brynden "The Blackfish" Tully refused to marry to the girls betrothed to him.
What if Tyrion didn't demand a trial by combat and instead went along with jaime's plan? Jaime begged tywin to let tyrion live and be sent to the wall if he begged for mercy, and in return Jaime agreed to give up his place on the kings guard and become heir to casterly rock. He told tyrion but when shae testified he got mad and demanded a trial by combat instead, and we all know how that turned out...
One key thing I think was missing in this video is how Rickon comes into play. If Sansa returns to Winterfell and Stark banners are returned there, then surely Rickon has no reason to hide anymore and can return to Winterfell, which makes him the rightful Lord of Winterfell?
@TheBattProductions You have amazing ideas and obviously take a lot of time to think about the possibilities, but I feel that some of them lack the correct motivations and plots of the time period and characters. I do agree that while the Tyrells would have wanted to marry Sansa to Loras to "gain control of the North", the purple wedding would have happened right on schedule. The purple wedding was not so much because of power, but because Tommen, the boy king, was easily manipulated. You have to remember that Tommen is only 7-8 in the books while he is clearly 13-14 in the series. Everyone was trying to get their claws in him. Also, while having Sansa would give the Tyrells a claim to the north as there is no one else to claim it, they would have had to face off against Stannis as well as the Boltons because neither would have aligned with them especially being that the Tyrells aligned with the Lannisters and back their claim to the throne as well as defeated Stannis at the Blackwater. The Tyrells know that they are much less of a threat on the Battlefield and instead rely on scheming and marriage to worm their way into situations. Riverrun would be of no consequence as well because Robyn Arynn would have a much greater claim being that he is a male in the line to the throne after Edmure, but first it would go to the Blackfish due to Lyssa and her sister being women anyways. The north would still likely go to the Boltons and the Tyrells would likely try and sow dissent among the houses in the North by providing them with food and making the claim that a Stark should rule Winterfell. Again, I really enjoy your videos as a whole, but feel that a lot of your insight comes from purely the series and not the books as each character has drastically different motivations in the book and Cersei even doesn't look like so much of a monster, just an extremely affectionate mother.
Hey!!!! Welcome to the channel, my friend. I have NOT done this one actually. Good suggestion! My video I did that was somewhat close to this one was "What if Theon stays Loyal to Robb" but it doesn't have a lot to do with Balon admittedly
I watched that one and then jumped to "WHAT IF: Robb Stark didn't marry Talisa/Jeyne?" and it made me wonder would the Freys and Boltons still betray Rob or would they just dismiss Tywin despite of what they thought of Robb because of the assistance of the Ironborn.
Cool on. I never realized how much would change. With Jon dead they will probably be screwed when the White Walkers come. Also, I have a suggestion for one unless you already did it?: What if Ned told Cat about Jon's true parentage? For such a major secret I just struggle to find what would have changed had he confided in her.
Just finished watching the majority of GOT videos and I have to say that they are fantastic and really interesting. Keep up the good work, love hearing what you got in your head about this! Well, I think a fascinating "what-if" scenario would be what it Roose Bolton's legitimate son, Domeric Bolton, had lived? Granted, that is more of a book question but still would be interesting to see how it would shake up the North. Would Ramsay be even more insane or would Domeric become loyal to the Starks? Another marriage "what-if" that could be interesting is if Olenna nudged Margaery to marry Robb Stark and become Queen of the North and the Riverlands? Can't wait to see what comes next, good luck!!
Thank you Casey! :) That would be a fascinating thing to play out considering Ramsay already has daddy issues, but adding in the fact that his other son would be alive...that'd cause even more problems for the Bolton family! If Olenna got Margaery to marry Robb, that would've been infinitely cooler!!!! I know she tried to stay out of the war altogether, but could've been really epic. Robb would've found a way to bungle it, though. Gah.
Poor Robb, he just tries so hard and is kind of like a royal Charlie Brown almost. Perhaps Margaery could have helped him keep his head. And Ramsay's insanity would be way more of an issue if Domeric survived and was the Heir to the Dreadfort.
I think that the Tyrells still would have taken Joffrey out, but just Tyrion would have been blamed not Sansa and Littlefinger wouldn't have been able to run off with Sansa. I think Loras would have been able to get Sansa pregnant because if you remember he was the one telling Renly "Listen, I get it, you don't like women, but you have to have an heir." I think he would have had an heir for his house even though he liked men. I think eventually Sansa would have figured out that he was gay and would have been upset about it, but I think in time they could have been friends at least and after a few kids I think they could have had separate affairs. I think the big thing is that Loras is not arrested for being gay since he's in Highgarden so Cersei would have needed another plan to deal with the Tyrells. I think they would have waited a little while to take the North, but they definitely would have eventually.
And since Loras probably hasn’t slept with a woman yet, not knowing what is was like, he might actually like banging Sansa once or twice, turning him bisexual.
I have one for you after rewatching season 3. What if Edmure Tully didnt attack The Mountain and Rob Starks plan to lure the Mountain into the west worked?
TheBattProductions I mean when the Tyrell's take over the north the Starks would be extinct to the rest of the seven kingdoms Bran and Rickon are seen as dead and Arya is probably seen as dead and Jon is a basterd. Until Bran and Rickon or arya pop up the Starks would seem as extinct.
Laurids Klatt Not if the battle of the bastards didn't happen. He was only used as a form of emotional torture against John to tilt him during the battle. If he were just a Bolton prisoner, I suspect Ramsey would hold him as leverage when the Tyrells inevitably overpower their position. By that time, the North will likely have rallied behind the cause. I think there's a good chance Ricon survives this endeavor and becomes the heir to the Stark legacy.
Seeing as the Freys and Boltons are relatively unpopular in their respective regions, i see no reason why the Tyrells on their march north, wouldnt wipe out the Freys. Since Robin Arryn is part Tully himself, they could also get Peter to convince Lysa to get the Vale on the Tyrell's side and take Riverrun. After that, marching further North with the armies of the Riverlands, Reach and Vale together, as well as getting Northern houses like the Manderlys on their side, absolutely decimate house Bolton and seat Sansa as lady of Winterfell. Like perfect plan assuming Cersei never catches wind of the Tyrells plan
where do you think stannis would fit into all of this? since by the time the tyrells were headed to winterfell, stannis would be headed to the wall? do you think there would be a confrontation? a sort of loras + brienne avenging renly vs stannis?
I prefer she marry Willas Tyrell littlefinger ruin that chance. In the show version I believe Loras would do his duty and produce a heirs for Highgarden just like some closet homosexuals who wanted children, but not a wife.
Loras would probably care about Sansa too, since he was always kind and chivalrous along with the fact that even though he was gay, he was never cruel.
Assuming they can avoid Marge being taken hostage/liberate her if she is, I don't think it's entirely out of the realms of possibility the Tyrells challenge the Lannisters pretty sharpish. Like if they lay waste to the Boltons and Freys, there's a chance the Tyrells would be welcomed as liberators. But thing about that is they'd see an army powerful enough to challenge the Lannisters, and the North especially would press them to do that. Plus, you've got to assume the North would have Jon verify that Mrs Tyrell is Sansa. Assuming Loras has the cultural sensitivity to show respect to the Night's Watch, Jon has the ear of a powerful military commander to talk about all the spooky shit going down north of the Wall. Whether or not the Tyrells would have organised anything is another matter tho
the one thing you are forgetting is that if loras is not in Kings Lansing the whole bullshit with the Sparrows likely goes down super differently certainly Loras (and by extension Margery) are never imprisoned meaning Tommen doesn’t go all pious and shit Cerci might still get arrested but idk if she would even arm the Faith Militant if she couldn’t point them at Loras meaning that the sept doesn’t get blown up and Tommen doesn’t kill himself after Margery’s death
What if Cersie stopped Ned Stark's execution on the steps of Baelor?
The execution would still continue.
Joffrey was already crowned king and the king's word is law.
No at that time Cersei was Queen Regent so she could have overturnt any of Joffreys order
@@nyan5785 As if Joffrey would listen.
You saw how he insulted his own mother right? He outright talked about Cersei and Jaime's incest to her face...Yes she slapped him, but she went full sub again right after.
He would have been sent to the wall
Ayan Abdullah then why didn’t she?
The Tyrell's would happily murder the Freys. It would be win/win for everyone.
Totally agreed!
What if Myrcella doesn't die?
OR
What if Robert Baratheon survives the boar and Ned tells him about Cersei and Jaime's incest?
I have actually done this one! (Robert's)
th-cam.com/video/U1aYWOMXsNk/w-d-xo.html
Oh haha of course! Sorry, totally missed that!
Oh seven save them
Hell hath no fury
Because the fury is all his
What if Robb were betrothed to Myrcella Baratheob instead of Sansa to Joffrey?
That would have made more since because Robb was older
Wtf mytcella was only 15
@@YourMom-lb3mt
Age does not matter in GoT
Example: Tommen and Margery (if i spelled it correctly)
TRIGGERED LIL CROOKED FURRIES Sansa was younger than that when she was betrothed to Joffrey.
Robert made the proposal to join houses, so it would be customary for him to offer his first-born son.
If you believe that Sansa has a claim to Riverrun, but wouldn't that mean that Robin and his Knights of the Vale has a stronger claim since he is a male heir??
I agree that it's messy. I'm not about to say it's cut and dry, but I think Robin Arryn may be right on this one. Since Sansa is Catelyn's daughter (Cat being the oldest daughter of Hoster), it probably passes to her...but who really knows. Like Robin said, it's messy.
Didn't they say in the most recent season that Edmure Tully had a son with Roslyn Frey. Even though he is in the Frey's control, he would be ahead of Sansa, Robin and he would be the legitimate successor to Edmure (if we're assuming he was out of the picture)
Well, for one, Edmure has a son with Roslyn, so it would actually go to _him_.. But let's say that he's too young, Edmure's out of the picture and Rosyn Frey and her relations are too weak to put a claim in because the Freys are cunts. Well, the rules of succession state that it should go to the _next male heir_ and ONLY if there is NO male heir, then it will go to the eldest female, which would be Sansa.... And let's be real though, Robin's not long for this world. And depending on whether or not Robin claims it first, and whether or not Robin _himself_ has an heir to receive Riverrun, then it would definitely go to Sansa.
Chris B Robbin wouldn't like the Riverland because their castles aren't high enough too have moon doors
Mhm! If you count Edmure's kid, it'd go to Edmure! I took Edmure out (and his baby) since Edmure was in prison, and the baby ...a baby! :)
What if Renly supports Stannis?
I'd have to research more, but basically nothing would've changed I think other than Renly's death. Nearly all of Renly's men went to Stannis' side before they even fought. The only ones who didn't were the Tyrells, and they wouldn't have fought if Renly was supporting Stannis (Mace desperately wanted Margaery to be Queen; couldn't do that under Stannis).
Sadly I think it would've been pretty similar :(
The tyrells may not fight for Stannis, but they may not fight for the Lannisters either. Loras loved Renly after all and he may still join him. The tyrells like the martells could remain neutral.
Without Stannis vs Renly, Stannis is able to march his army much sooner against KL, and would probably win at blackwater...
You already made a video about "what if Stannis win at BW", and I think everything will follow as in your video, but Renly would be the Heir. Margery could still marry Renly, and the tyrells plot to kill stannis like the killed Joffrey.
TheBattProductions but stannis did offer to make renly his heir which means margaery would still be queen
Well at least this is the first time a TH-camr answered my comment :D, but I think that the Tyrells would have fought for Stannis because of Renly being heir etc. and maybe Robb Stark and the Vale would have been more inclined to supprt him aswell instead of declaring independence and staying out respectively.
Haha, I try to answer all of the comments if I can! :)
Robb Stark did support Stannis actually, problem is that Stannis didn't support Robb (since Robb wanted an independent North and Stannis saw all of Westeros as HIS to claim).
I appreciate your comment my friend! :)
Joffrey would still die after Sansa told the tyrells that Joffrey was a monster the tyrells concocted a plan to kill him and marry Margery to a far more easily manipulated king Tommen
God I loved the Tyrells. So pissed they're all dead
A lot to disagree with here. Starting with the purple wedding.
The Purple Wedding had nothing to do with Sansa marrying Loras or Tyrion. Olenna needed to get rid of Joffrey to protect Marg - and getting rid of Tyrion just happened to be cherry on top. So the wedding, the trial and the aftermath would likely go down as before - the only difference would be that Sansa would remain in KL, still unwed and still a hostage, watching everything unfold from the gallery. And because she isn't Tyrion's wife in this case, everyone dismisses her as a potential suspect because she is too powerless to do anything.
Another thing you might have gotten wrong is the Tyrell's proposed timing for all this. As long as Tywin's in charge, they can marry Sansa off to Loras, but they don't need to rush into a rebellion. Remember, the Starks and Tullys were rebels - so they were stripped of all lands and titles. By the King's decree, the Boltons legitimately hold Winterfell and the Freys legitimately hold Riverrun. As far as the Crown is concerned, Sansa Stark has no claim to either of those places, no matter how many loyalists her name might attract.
As long as Tywin is alive (and pissed at Tyrells for stealing Sansa), this would be his position and if Tyrells try to press Sansa's claim, they'd only create unnecessary conflict. But they don't have to do that - they can simply wait for him to die and for Marg to become the sole voice in Tommen's ears. Ofcourse, if the fallout from the Purple Wedding follows course and Tywin is killed by Tyrion, they might be in the position to press Sansa's claim by season 5.
The biggest advantage of waiting here would be that they won't need any conflict to establish Sansa's claim at all. Margaery would just need to whisper in Tommen's ear and he'd decree Sansa's lands and title be restored and the Freys and the Boltons punished for treachery. And just like that, order is restored and justice is served without a single sword drawn.
Arya's story also goes through a big change here. Without Sansa's presence making Lysa jealous, her and LF's union would last quite a bit longer. No flying through the moon door for her - not yet, anyway. Which means, when the Hound shows up to sell Arya, she probably ends up right with LF and her crazy aunt. This has the potential of getting pretty messy. LF wanted a Stark girl to get his claws into the North and Arya would be a suitable candidate. But Arya is not Sansa - she won't trust LF, nor would she go along meekly with his plans. She might outright refuse, she might try to kill LF or if he manages to get her to the North, she'd definitely try to kill Roose, Ramsay, Theon and probably a few others. How that would end up is anyone's guess.
Tend to agree with this. Tyrells would still want Joffery dead they just wouldn't be able to use Sansa to do it but Tyrion would be in the frame still. The Tyrells would not be able to take the North even with Sansa unless Tywin was out of the picture.
I get what you’re saying but the whole marrying Sansa with Loras was a Tyrell plan that Olenna was definitely involved in. So she was probably going to wait for Margery to have that power to influence the marriage with Sansa and Loras. But since Cersei found out and had to it stopped, Sansa instead married Tyrion and that foiled the plan so Olenna went ahead and killed Joffrey right away.
@@LovelyGamer115 The point is though Cersei found out before Margaery married Joffrey, which is why Sansa was married to Tyrion so quickly, so the Tyrells couldn't wriggle their way out of Tywin's ultimatum of Loras marries Cersei or joins the kingsguard. If they never find out, then there's probably a good chance that they won't marry Sansa off yet, they have no need to, and I imagine they'd be waiting to see how things develop in the north now Robb Stark is dead before deciding what to do with her which leaves the time to get to the purple wedding, and then they'd have Joffrey's death to deal with so Sansa would take a back seat until Margaery marries Tommen. Given Olenna did it to stop Margaery marrying a monster who would hurt her, she would have had to have killed him before the wedding night, she had no idea what he'd be capable of if left alone with her and didn't want to risk any harm to Margaery, so the wedding was the best shot they had
agreed with this. the tyrells never actually framed tyrion anyway, olenna intended for it to look like an accident. it was cersei who pointed her finger at her brother, and it's not as if margaery would ever throw her grandmother under the bus just to defend him, so he became the fall-guy, but it was not through the tyrells' doing.
have you done a what if Catelyn didnt release Jamie? or if Jon accepted to become Jon Stark from Stannis.
I have not! Those are both excellent ideas. Particularly the Brienne/Jaime one I think I can get a lot from.
Thanks, Kitten!
TheBattProductions Could you do a What if Sansa left with the Hound?
Had Cat not released Jamie he would’ve been killed by the karstarks in the night.
Loras Marries Sansa = Sansa Stays a Maid lol
At least where he's concerned. Great video, as always.
"It's pretty much always Petyr Baelish having some kind of hand in it." Me- "or, dare we say, some kind of... little... finger." 😂
I believ It was Varys that planted the idea in lady Oleanna's mind to ensure little finger doesn't abscond with Sansa. Great video as always!
Sort of yeah. Varys spoke with Olenna and before he could say what the answer is, Olenna came up with it as well (to marry Sansa and Loras) to get Sansa out of the grip of the Lannisters/away from Littlefinger!
Thank you Ummi :) Glad to have you commenting!
Maybe you did this? WHAT IF Ned Tells Catlyn about John's parents when he returns from the war? OR What if he tells her just before he goes to King's Landing?
What if Sam grew up to be the son Randyll wanted him to be instead of the bookish sweetheart we all know and love?
I'd love that! Good suggestion Ashley!
Everyone would be fucked
I don't love him
TheBattProductions
What if Robert Baratheon had Mycella marry Robb Stark instead of Joffrey & Sansa?
I’m curious to know what your opinion is?
Jon Snow wouldn't know where to put it XD
So few people notice that Loras was a skilled warrior from a culture that prized martial accomplishments. Highgarden was a wealthy kingdom with a large, well equipped army. Alliance with the North would have brought them into conflict sooner, but probably better prepared.
1. What if Tyrion takes the black/Jamie gives up being a kingsguard during Tyrion's trial?
2. What if Brianne doesn't kill Stannis?
Daniel Stark stannis would still be a broken man. No heir, no army, no castle, no money. If anything, he'd be a general for jon.
/pol/ 18th armored autism batallion First of all, it makes no sense for Stannis to just charge to Winterfell its just sloppy writing that made him lose. But if Brienne did let Stannis live, he'd never serve as a general for Jon, he'd probably try to make a new force and start guerilla warfare against the Boltons.
what if the Tyrells throw their support behind Rob stark after the death of Renly
LadyAbhorsen but there is no logical reason for them to do so.
they have no reason to do so. Rob doesn't want to be king, he just want the North to be free and have his sisters back.
Joffrey (despite how bad he was) was the only one the Tyrell's could gain for after Renly's death
It could've happened if Rob put the Tyrells on the throne in exchange for an Independent North. They're not married into the throne, I mean directly sitting on the throne.
@@myseveredwrjsts Agreed, still really want to see that what if
Dynastically it would be a boost for House Tyrell if they would have been able to have Loras and Sansa married. And I think the Lannisters would not help the Freys. Considering that they turn out to be pretty much useless. At least this is what I gathered from Jaimy and Walders conversation in Season 6. It might even be rightout War between the Freys and the Tyrells, when Walder tries to pull one of his stunts again, blocking the crossing and all that. And I doubt Loras, or if Randal Tarly is in command, would have none of it.
Economically it may also be good for House Tyrell, since the North would be a new market for any goods produced in the Reach. Not just the Food. In return there could be imports from the North to the Reach, like Lumber, Furs and other things. These could be gained much cheaper from the northern Houses.
What if Robb escaped the Twins during the Red Wedding?
North was still doomed
Stephanie Broadwater not necessarily, if Robb was able to make his way North again he’d have been able to rally all of the North (besides the Boltons and Karstarks) to his side and he’d have been able to take it back, and once he did that he would have won because they can’t invade the north, it has never happened throughout the entirety of the story’s history
If you are still looking for new suggestions then, what if Bran and Rickon went to the Wall like Maester Luwin told them to do?
The Tyrells are interesting. They're not nice people exactly, but they're not wantonly cruel, and don't usually let pettiness get the better of them.
Funnily enough, Arya and Loras would probably have a happier, though likely childless, relationship. He'd find her a bit funny and can dismiss her behaviour as "just a northern thing", and she'd just not be all that interested in him.
I also wonder whether or not the North would start to be a bit like Dorne, where women can inherit
I love the longer videos. They've got a lot of meat to them and you seemed really into this what if. Two months to go!
Finallyyyy. I've been so exited for this one for such a long time!
Great video as always. Love how the Tyrell's just take over half of Westeros :D
Am I the only one shocked at the low number of subscribers for this guy?
Me me me!!!!
:)
Thanks Andrew. Kind words, my friend.
He deserves better!
Andrew Blake I hadn’t noticed till now , he’s got the personality of a big youtuber
He should have 100k. No fair
They did a good job amalgamizing Loras' brothers into his character arc. It saved the budget not having too many actors needing to be paid.
Two other 'What If' ideas:
1. What if Littlefinger managed to get Brandon so pissed at him that in their duel for Cat Brandon killed him. (Or his wounds in the duel had killed him, if I remember correctly his survival was a close call in the first place)
2. What If Ned got engaged/married to Ashara Dayne before Brandon's death (he wasn't an heir, Ashara was from a noble house, one held in kind of a high esteem, what with the famous Swords of the Morning and all, politically there was not much against it)
As always, an awesome and interesting video!
What if Cersei had never gone to Maggy the Frog and thus had never heard the 'valonquar' prophecy?
What if Margery lives? Sorry I don't know who to spell Margery
That's great! Would be a tough one to do though since she basically JUST died. I don't think I could really do that for another season or so :(
To add to that slightly. What if Laurice (sp?) was able to blow out the candle in time? It's still fresh, but that would already shift EVERYTHING in the show.
Lancel. but yes, if Lancel was just a LITTLE bit quicker, he would've put out those candles. Season 7 would flip over pretty greatly if that were the case. Though, with Margaery still queen (assuming that's still the case if the Sept of Baelor wasn't destroyed), and Daenerys sailing to Westeros, I can only wonder what kind of connection would happen with that.
Margaery its OK :D
Before I start my comment on this, I just wanna thank you Kev and show my appreciation. Not just because I love your vids but as far as GoT you tubers go you are one of the only 3 creators who actually have interacted with my comments. I know some channels are bigger than others and what not and still take that into consideration, that being said the fact that you actually interact with your comments means a lot to me 🤗 now on to my comment about this vid in particular ... 😛
love this “what if” !! I enjoy them all in general of course 😛but if things would’ve played out this way i think it wouldve made a great plot !
I know these videos are so old. But damn. They are like my comfort show. 👏🏼👏🏼
What if peter beat Brandon in their duel
Excellent one! Afterall, Baelish is kind of responsible for all of this mayhem.
Thanks, Daniel!
Daniel Rivett if even Peter managed to beat him then Brandon was a bitch ass pussyboy
I had to
If Peter won the duel and (somehow) also Cat's hand, the entire book series and TV show would have to be re-written from square one. Almost everything that happens in Westeros is because of Mr. "Chaos is a Ladder" wreaking havoc for his own purposes. Doubt he'd be so angsty if he was getting it on the regular from his lady love.
Daniel Rivett there is a short film on TH-cam called the wild wolf. It's a small independent film, about the duel between Brandon and Peter. It's worth a look.
What if Tywin doesn't get to the throne room in time to stop Cersei and Tommen from taking the nightshade?
What if Sansa married Joffrey during the War of Five Kings? What if Renly never claimed the throne?
What if Jon joins stanis as a stark?
That's a popular one now! I love it.
Thanks, Decon!
deconintaor i like that one aswell good idea
And would The Vale join Stannis' cause then? A Stark-Arryn-Baratheon alliance just like old times, except the rest of Westeros is so wrecked from war that they'd have a pretty easy time sacking King's Landing from the north. Who's left south of the neck with an intact army besides the Tyrells?
What if Tywin actually loved his kids and didn't Tyrion like shit
My boo Petyr is going to piss all over those Tyrell dreams XD Looking forward to your live stream!
I think that the Purple Wedding was inevitable, with Sansa wanting to stop Joffree and Ollena Tyrell wanting to protect her granddaughter, Margaery. So I think that it would be more likely if they were both still available after Margaery's marriage to Tommen.
@victoriadk2434you could say that the Tyrells would know Sansa would get blamed for it and they don’t want to risk her being executed before she can marry Loras. So they hold off from killing Joffrey until after the wedding so they can protect Sansa
What if Tywin and Jamie’s agreement went through, where Jamie leaves the Kingsguard to resume his role as heir and they give Tyrion mercy and send him to the Nightswatch. How would this affect the series as a whole?
what if lord Eddard Stark said no to becoming hand of the king
That's a great one people have been suggesting lately!
Thanks Sam!
Robert would still get gored by that boar, and nobody else in KL would probably have the guts to try to stop Joffrey from taking the throne even if they knew he was a bastard. Stannis would have never gotten Ned's letter about the incest, so why would he object to his nephew becoming king? And what would it take to make someone like Ned rise up against the Iron Throne? Assuming Joffrey just keeps being Joffrey I'm sure he'd do something to spark a rebellion soon enough.....
stannis already knew about the incest, he found out with arryn
Honestly if it came to it I think Loras would at least try to have a baby with Sansa. After all, he was the one telling Renly people were suspicious and laughing at him when he couldn't do that with Margaery.
I agree. He could probably be aroused long enough to sleep with Sansa a couple times to have an heir with her. He would just have to pretend Sansa was Renly. Or he could also train himself to also be aroused by women alongside men.
This. I was like if you think Loras isn't going to do his duty, you haven't been paying attention. 😅
You are easily the best you tuber I watch as the content you make is brilliant and you always try to see all the comments.
Love your stuff keep it up. 😀
what if the hound beats brienne
Excellent one!!!!!!!! Ah! I didn't think of this one.
Rick definitely has a claim, but the problem is everyone thinks he's dead until he's brought to Ramsey.
TheBattProductions well I would put my list of what ifs but you can just look at your last vid so no point in repeating my self over and over but I have one what if reygar announced publicly that he and Leanna was going to elope he's the prince after all and it's not like targarinans could not marry more then once
I personally think that if Peter did not spin the news so horifficaly that the north would of been ok with it I mean but I do think this may have ended up in Robert dieing on his own maybe with Ned but if lord ricard and Brandon don't ride south because Leanna was kidnapped I don't think Ned could of done anything this means Kat will have married Brandon stark and Ned would most likely married ashara Dayn
What if Tyrion was not a dwarf
Can you do some variation of what if Margaery made it out of the Sept, with or without loras/high sparrow etc
Great video man! One of my favorites.
Thanks a lot man!!!
Imagine Cersei marrying Walder Fray or Robin Arryn
Not sure if this was mentioned or not. Loras was a Kings Guard so could not have married Sansa in the first place. It was stated that she would have married Willis Tyrell, the heir to Highgarden. @TheBattProductions are you going based on the TV series or the Books?
I mentioned in the beginning that it was purely from TV perspective! :)
Thank you for the input though Percival!
Thanks for the clarification on that. Must have just missed that! :)
I realize this is two years late and several people have probably already gone through this in the comments already, but there's one really big gaping Stark shaped hole in all of this. Putting Bran aside, because he'd be busy in this scenario, if the North is rallying behind a return of Stark power and the retaking of Winterfell, it's not going to be long before Rickon is delivered to his sister and her husband. Sansa's not going to turn her brother away, and as (then) Ned Stark's only living true born son, he'd have the claim to the seat. So even after all that work and careful planning, the Tyrells would get stuck with the issue problem. And even if Riverrun is claimed as part of Sansa's heritage, then as a male heir, it would likely be Rickon's automatically as well. At which point it might have to be discussed who was moving where. All of this of course, only for Bran to show up some time later, and possibly Arya as well. Which is GREAT for House Stark and the North, but an absolute kick in the pants for the Tyrells. Though, Olenna would probably already have some Tyrell girls in the wings for just such an occasion, because she is nothing if not prepared.
I was just about to say that the likelihood of Olenna letting an unattached heir go to waste, is pretty low- & beneficially for the Tyrells, they can have the benefits of positioning their people to ‘help’ Rickon, but they can also recall Loras & Sansa back down South- either to present an alternate claim to the imprisoned Edmure & his half-Frey child on Riverrun &/ or Harrenhal, &/ or, make an alliance with Sansa’s cousin Robin (I don’t think Baelish would let Lysa live long- she had a set amount of purpose; poisoning Jon Arryn, keeping the Vale out of the war, & marrying him- & once she served them- he’d need to move his plans along, & she’d really only be a hindrance).
With the Vale having strong warriors, being a good food production region- & essentially untouched by the war - with this alliance stretching from the North to the Reach; even if the Lannisters *wanted* to stomp on them, they couldn’t- essentially, they’d be reduced to doing what they did at the start of the war- raids on the smallfolk & creating terror, but it would never have the same kind of effectiveness- they (the alliance) would calculate likely targets, & have a greater force waiting, to destroy the raiders.
Also, the Riverlands is mutinous & divided under the Freys & Lannisters- if there was such a powerful triple alliance as this, the Freys & their (bare handful of) supporters would be completely isolated- the Blackwoods & Mallisters were leading supporters of Robb, so they would likely transfer their allegiance to Sansa & Loras in a heartbeat.
The Lannisters _might_ consider fighting back, but only because one of them (Genna) is there- & to keep a pathway open- if they didn’t consider the risk worth the reward, they might just negotiate for the release of Genna & her kids & their other placements, & say ‘f you’ to the Freys, & formulate a ‘new world order’, as it were- to put in place at a later date, without having to accommodate Walder Frey....
Sorry for the rambling, lol...
If the Tyrells take back Winterfell and kill the Boltons, Rickon would not have died either, at least not like that, and then wouldn't he definitely be the heir to Winterfell as a male son? And if Stannis wasn't worried about taking back Winterfell, Shireen shouldn't have been burned...
Thanks for the upload. I enjoy your videos.
Thanks Brandon!!!
There’s another benefit for Sansa, once she has Loras’ kid in her; because I do think he’d manage a family honor boner for long enough to get her pregnant, arguably the second or third smartest person in the game at that time Olenna Queen of thorns will have a direct interest in making her wise up so her great grandchild lives, Sansa might end up in a similar or maybe even better position as a strategist in the game as she did by end of season 7
Good point for the North and Riverrun. The Tyrells have the largest army in Westeros. Littlefinger would try to put the blame of the red wedding on the Tyrells, but I think he would probably have poisoned Joffrey with Olenna as they dit but he would have framed Sansa for it, so that she would have no other choice but to leave with him. She would definitely be present since it would have been her good sister wedding.
Great video as usual. Still waiting for a what if video about Catelyn Stark!
Love From France:
Omg I've never been this early. And is something different about you today? Maybe the beard? I'm excited to watch the video. I'm wondering when will you make "What if Jaime kills Ned in season 1 episode 5" video. You mentioned it earlier. Thank you and have a good day!!!
Haha. Maybe. I shaved my facial hair off like a day or so ago!
Well thank you :) And that WHAT IF idea is a great one! I just randomly pick one that speaks to me each week AND that I can find enough to speak about for 10 minutes or so. I haven't tried to write that one yet, so I'll have to look into it!
Face looks slimmer though dude..
Really?! I've only gained weight. Sigh. Haha.
Thanks Jay!!!
"loras had his own thing going on" lol
Sansa was seen as 6th in line for Riverun because you had: Edmure, his son, Blackfish, Lyssa Arryn and then Robin Arryn
Since Lysa is the younger sister, Catelyn’s children would come before hers
Love what you’ve done here, it’s a really interesting perspective
But... do you seriously think the Lannisters and especially TYWIN would let the Tyrells get the North, the Riverlands and à super strong position in King’s Landing ??
I’m pretty sure Tywin would wage war against Loras the moment Robb’s last breath crosses his mouth
i was literally just thinking about this exact thing O.o thank you :D
The umbers would give rickon back and wouldn't his claim be better than Sansa's. Instead i think Baelish would probably attack the twins using the night of the vale as he would convince the lannisters that the Tyrrell army is moving towards it ( to avenge the red wedding and to extend their power) but in this way the lannisters have the twins under their influence with baelish decieting loyalty
Loras could have a trueborn child. He just needs to close his eyes the whole time and think about Renly. Unless Loras was the bottom. (Loras was probably the bottom.)
Hahahha. he surely could have a true born child. Probably would have to make it happen somehow for the sake of Highgarden.
no trust me he wasnt Renly was defo a bottom without a dout
@@meganmcewan4504 no loras was the bottom, watch 2×03 & 3×05 again
Sansa ALSO has a claim to Harrenhall from Cat's side. I wonder if they'd try to claim that as well? After all, it's not like Littlefinger's ever even set foot in the place..
Wondered if Tyrell will know about the Red Wedding's plan and slip the Starks some prior info?
Great What If video Kevin, I am looking forward to watching your livestream. What if the Mountain names Tywin Lannister as the man who gave the order when he is fighting The Red Viper...
Why thank you Andrew!!!!!
I appreciate it, man. That's an interesting situation if he did...I mean, does Oberyn just flatout spear Tywin? Or what? It's certainly a crazy result.
Great What If Video. Also Brienne, Pod, Arya and Hound traveling party? The snark would be uncontrollable.
Thank you lady! :)
Could be funnnnnnN!!!!!
What if Robert named Stannis as hand of the king instead of Ned?
Lannisters get destroyed, Stannis becomes heir, and all corruption ceases to exist
@@gfilmer7150 Baratheons would become invincible. Littlefinger would be thrown out of the small council. Cersei and Jaime might get executed if they are discovered and Stannis brings the news to his brother the king.
@@LordKoehler And he'll become King after Robert. Happy ending.
@@gfilmer7150 Then what about the white walkers and Danaerys?
@@bribli2177 Stannis will rally Westeros against The Others but when Daenerys arrives, they have to join forces temporarily. Once the war is won, Stannis and Daenerys fight. Daenerys might win she’d take heavy casualties.
Another great video man. WHAT IF: Stannis waited another season and attacked Winterfell with Jon Snow & The Freefolk
what if littlefinger dies at the duel with Brynden Stark
I love this one. It has been suggested once or twice before, but I am starting to slowly really dig this idea.
Good one, Oliver!
I mean from what I can see (by no means an expert, just a fan :) ), no war between Starks and Lannisters, John Arryn still lives so Robert Baratheon doesn't go north to ask Ned, Ned doesn't end up executed, maybe Cersei still kills her husband so he doesn't find out about her and Jaime and the kids, after that idk. It basically takes away the whole premise and start of the show lol.
The Blackfish was disinherited by his brother Hoster Tully (Edmure and Catlyns dad) When Brynden "The Blackfish" Tully refused to marry to the girls betrothed to him.
what if lord Eddard Stark was defeated by Arthur Dayne at the tower of joy?
And by the way, great content, you deserve more subs)
Rickon would be alive and he'd be Lord of Winterfell.
Notification Squad!!!
What if Tyrion didn't demand a trial by combat and instead went along with jaime's plan? Jaime begged tywin to let tyrion live and be sent to the wall if he begged for mercy, and in return Jaime agreed to give up his place on the kings guard and become heir to casterly rock. He told tyrion but when shae testified he got mad and demanded a trial by combat instead, and we all know how that turned out...
One key thing I think was missing in this video is how Rickon comes into play. If Sansa returns to Winterfell and Stark banners are returned there, then surely Rickon has no reason to hide anymore and can return to Winterfell, which makes him the rightful Lord of Winterfell?
If Rickon hears about it, maybe! Remember he's kind of off on his own.
Rickon would have rights to it, sure.
What if margaery had a child with Tommen
@TheBattProductions You have amazing ideas and obviously take a lot of time to think about the possibilities, but I feel that some of them lack the correct motivations and plots of the time period and characters. I do agree that while the Tyrells would have wanted to marry Sansa to Loras to "gain control of the North", the purple wedding would have happened right on schedule. The purple wedding was not so much because of power, but because Tommen, the boy king, was easily manipulated. You have to remember that Tommen is only 7-8 in the books while he is clearly 13-14 in the series. Everyone was trying to get their claws in him. Also, while having Sansa would give the Tyrells a claim to the north as there is no one else to claim it, they would have had to face off against Stannis as well as the Boltons because neither would have aligned with them especially being that the Tyrells aligned with the Lannisters and back their claim to the throne as well as defeated Stannis at the Blackwater. The Tyrells know that they are much less of a threat on the Battlefield and instead rely on scheming and marriage to worm their way into situations. Riverrun would be of no consequence as well because Robyn Arynn would have a much greater claim being that he is a male in the line to the throne after Edmure, but first it would go to the Blackfish due to Lyssa and her sister being women anyways. The north would still likely go to the Boltons and the Tyrells would likely try and sow dissent among the houses in the North by providing them with food and making the claim that a Stark should rule Winterfell.
Again, I really enjoy your videos as a whole, but feel that a lot of your insight comes from purely the series and not the books as each character has drastically different motivations in the book and Cersei even doesn't look like so much of a monster, just an extremely affectionate mother.
If the tyrell army is marching north then they have to pass through the river lands meaning they might have to face the feet first.
I'm new to your channel so I apologize if you did this video already but what if Balon takes Robb's offer?
Hey!!!! Welcome to the channel, my friend.
I have NOT done this one actually. Good suggestion! My video I did that was somewhat close to this one was "What if Theon stays Loyal to Robb" but it doesn't have a lot to do with Balon admittedly
I watched that one and then jumped to "WHAT IF: Robb Stark didn't marry Talisa/Jeyne?" and it made me wonder would the Freys and Boltons still betray Rob or would they just dismiss Tywin despite of what they thought of Robb because of the assistance of the Ironborn.
that would've been fucking amazing GOD DAMN IT GAME OF THRONES 😂😂
What if Jaime dosen´t kill King Aerys??
Hector Bonilla everyone dies
kaboom
Cool on. I never realized how much would change. With Jon dead they will probably be screwed when the White Walkers come.
Also, I have a suggestion for one unless you already did it?:
What if Ned told Cat about Jon's true parentage?
For such a major secret I just struggle to find what would have changed had he confided in her.
Wait for the winter.
Bring the food, and the northmen will piss themselves with joy. All hail Sansa Stark and House Tyrell.
"Greasy little petals" haaa!
Just finished watching the majority of GOT videos and I have to say that they are fantastic and really interesting. Keep up the good work, love hearing what you got in your head about this!
Well, I think a fascinating "what-if" scenario would be what it Roose Bolton's legitimate son, Domeric Bolton, had lived? Granted, that is more of a book question but still would be interesting to see how it would shake up the North. Would Ramsay be even more insane or would Domeric become loyal to the Starks? Another marriage "what-if" that could be interesting is if Olenna nudged Margaery to marry Robb Stark and become Queen of the North and the Riverlands?
Can't wait to see what comes next, good luck!!
Thank you Casey! :)
That would be a fascinating thing to play out considering Ramsay already has daddy issues, but adding in the fact that his other son would be alive...that'd cause even more problems for the Bolton family!
If Olenna got Margaery to marry Robb, that would've been infinitely cooler!!!! I know she tried to stay out of the war altogether, but could've been really epic. Robb would've found a way to bungle it, though. Gah.
Poor Robb, he just tries so hard and is kind of like a royal Charlie Brown almost. Perhaps Margaery could have helped him keep his head.
And Ramsay's insanity would be way more of an issue if Domeric survived and was the Heir to the Dreadfort.
What if Margaery left Kingslanding and went to Highgarden with her grand ma in S6? Probably my heart won't be this wretched.
what if Alliser Thorne wins the Lord Commander election
Jon and co. join Stannis
I think that the Tyrells still would have taken Joffrey out, but just Tyrion would have been blamed not Sansa and Littlefinger wouldn't have been able to run off with Sansa. I think Loras would have been able to get Sansa pregnant because if you remember he was the one telling Renly "Listen, I get it, you don't like women, but you have to have an heir." I think he would have had an heir for his house even though he liked men. I think eventually Sansa would have figured out that he was gay and would have been upset about it, but I think in time they could have been friends at least and after a few kids I think they could have had separate affairs. I think the big thing is that Loras is not arrested for being gay since he's in Highgarden so Cersei would have needed another plan to deal with the Tyrells. I think they would have waited a little while to take the North, but they definitely would have eventually.
And since Loras probably hasn’t slept with a woman yet, not knowing what is was like, he might actually like banging Sansa once or twice, turning him bisexual.
„It will be a good thing, until Littlefinger comes and ruins it“ kinda the whole plot lmao
I have one for you after rewatching season 3. What if Edmure Tully didnt attack The Mountain and Rob Starks plan to lure the Mountain into the west worked?
I actually did this one already! :)
Here you go: th-cam.com/video/JmW6xa0i4eE/w-d-xo.html
you always forget rickon's at last hearth with the umbers
You forget that rickon would be alive and him or Bran would be next in line for lord of winterfell
Hey love these vids can u please do one about if Tywin found out who arya really was at harenhall
That mean the Starks would go extinct if sensa married a Tyrell.
Well there still is Bran and Rickon, also Arya (and maybe Jon).
Tywin Lannister but Rickon is dead... it would be Bran.
TheBattProductions I mean when the Tyrell's take over the north the Starks would be extinct to the rest of the seven kingdoms Bran and Rickon are seen as dead and Arya is probably seen as dead and Jon is a basterd.
Until Bran and Rickon or arya pop up the Starks would seem as extinct.
Laurids Klatt Not if the battle of the bastards didn't happen. He was only used as a form of emotional torture against John to tilt him during the battle. If he were just a Bolton prisoner, I suspect Ramsey would hold him as leverage when the Tyrells inevitably overpower their position. By that time, the North will likely have rallied behind the cause. I think there's a good chance Ricon survives this endeavor and becomes the heir to the Stark legacy.
Wasn’t the plan for Robb to be the King North Earie and River ?
Seeing as the Freys and Boltons are relatively unpopular in their respective regions, i see no reason why the Tyrells on their march north, wouldnt wipe out the Freys. Since Robin Arryn is part Tully himself, they could also get Peter to convince Lysa to get the Vale on the Tyrell's side and take Riverrun. After that, marching further North with the armies of the Riverlands, Reach and Vale together, as well as getting Northern houses like the Manderlys on their side, absolutely decimate house Bolton and seat Sansa as lady of Winterfell. Like perfect plan assuming Cersei never catches wind of the Tyrells plan
where do you think stannis would fit into all of this? since by the time the tyrells were headed to winterfell, stannis would be headed to the wall? do you think there would be a confrontation? a sort of loras + brienne avenging renly vs stannis?
What if the King Aerys II burned King's Landing with wild fire?
I prefer she marry Willas Tyrell littlefinger ruin that chance. In the show version I believe Loras would do his duty and produce a heirs for Highgarden just like some closet homosexuals who wanted children, but not a wife.
As do I. Willas is a better match for her.
Loras would probably care about Sansa too, since he was always kind and chivalrous along with the fact that even though he was gay, he was never cruel.
Thursday at 10pm works for me. I'm not doing anything Thursday.
Excellence!
Assuming they can avoid Marge being taken hostage/liberate her if she is, I don't think it's entirely out of the realms of possibility the Tyrells challenge the Lannisters pretty sharpish. Like if they lay waste to the Boltons and Freys, there's a chance the Tyrells would be welcomed as liberators. But thing about that is they'd see an army powerful enough to challenge the Lannisters, and the North especially would press them to do that.
Plus, you've got to assume the North would have Jon verify that Mrs Tyrell is Sansa. Assuming Loras has the cultural sensitivity to show respect to the Night's Watch, Jon has the ear of a powerful military commander to talk about all the spooky shit going down north of the Wall. Whether or not the Tyrells would have organised anything is another matter tho
What if Arya and Gendry had run like Yoren told them to instead of joining the combat against the Lannister men?
the one thing you are forgetting is that if loras is not in Kings Lansing the whole bullshit with the Sparrows likely goes down super differently
certainly Loras (and by extension Margery) are never imprisoned meaning Tommen doesn’t go all pious and shit
Cerci might still get arrested but idk if she would even arm the Faith Militant if she couldn’t point them at Loras
meaning that the sept doesn’t get blown up and Tommen doesn’t kill himself after Margery’s death