I’M NOT 100% CONVINCED THAT ROAD FABRIC IS WORTH THE HEADACHE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2023
- You watched us grade the last bit of soil a few weeks ago for this trailer parking pad. We used the Dirt Dog LLR 72" Landscape Rake with gauge wheels, and it worked awesome. It was a touch oversized for the John Deere 1025R, but that was simply because of its limited 3-Pt lift capacity. It made it difficult to let go of the pile of 'stuff' you were just pulling. Well our friend is still borrowing our 96" rake that we'd use on our Kubota M4D-071, so to grade this limestone gravel we're going with the same set up. It worked, but it had its frustrations!
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This video is for entertainment purposes only. Good Works Tractors (Good Works Lawn & Power, LLC) cannot be held responsible for content found in any video. Always reference your owners manuals, use extreme caution, and proceed at your own risk.
We sell lots of grading tools for your tractor and can help you pick the right size. That way, you avoid issues like the one I had in this video: www.goodworkstractors.com/product-category/attachments/?product-category=grading
After spreading 60 tons of stone over our dry creek (with 24” culvert tube installed) we had a 2.75” rainfall in 40 minutes. This washed away 30% of the stone that hadn’t settled enough. Since dumping another 20 tons and driving over it all season, it has lasted a couple more heavy (but not that heavy) storms. I felt your frustration!
That's some heavy rain! We got 2" here last week, everything I have stayed in place though. No washout at all fortunately.
I watch this in the morning and it’s better than any talk show. Just keep making these.
Haha, well I appreciate it!
Great example of the job that a landscape rake can do. Something to consider. I like that it works in both directions. Nice finished product.
Your sarcasm on the 2 JCB lemons is very funny. Hopefully, everyone gets it. LOL
I feel for you. We all have those days where everything is a struggle but you persisted and got it done. It turned out good and it looks like a nice mixture of fines in the stone. It will be hard once it compacts. Even with the problems that you had it was an enjoyable video to watch.
I appreciate it!
Don't beat yourself up. You started out with a mess but it turned out great! I know you like to demonstrate tractor implements, but to rough it in, your JCB front-end loader would have been a better option. On the Kabota only the front axle is self-leveling. On the JCB front-end loader, the entire front half of the machine is self-leveling and the bucket is attached to the front making it easier to level your workspace, the same as you would with your skid steer. It also helps to compact the gravel.
I appreciate your honesty about all of your projects easy or tough. Keep on keeping on. Thanks again
Thanks for watching!
As ❤for the lift ht on your 1025R. Tractor Time with Tim addressed this problem a couple of years ago. Only one of your lift arms is adjustable, replace the fixed arm so that both are are adjustable. Now if you adjust to the higher position and it will give you a few more inches of lift. I had a problem moving my rear blade up a ramp into my barn, now I have no problem.
Looks to me like that came out really good and you had better finishing results using the rake backward. Thanks for sharing!
I always put fabric at the base of a driveway. Cover that with #2 limestone, then top it with B19 or similar. If you don't put the #2s down, you will have problems with wheels digging through. I have fabric under my driveway and it survive more than 50 fully loaded gravel trucks while we were building our horse arena without developing any tire grooves. That is why you need fabric!
Totally feel your pain! I took on a driveway/parking area with no matting and DOT 57 rock. Equipment used JD 1025R with loader bucket front and landscape rack used backwards. Also, a GT2500 Wheel Horse with a front and rear blade. Took time for sure but worked awesome. Our dump spread with dump trailer fortunately work better than your which led to an awesome result.
I appreciate the good, clean content. And the scripture at the end as well. I hope to get a nice tractor one day. I definitely feel more educated on what to buy and the attachments to get as well. Thanks.
The times I've seen fabric work is, 1. Layed down and covered with base layer of rock several inches with fines. 2. That layer covered with another 6 inches minimum of smaller rock than 1st layer with fines also. Spread and compact. Enjoy
We quoted a job for a large industrial manufacturer. They have semi trucks in their yard and wanted a large area covered in 4" of rock. We contacted the geotextile manufacturer and they said for the weight (big fork lifts and semi trucks) the depth of rock would need to be 12" or more. It was cost prohibitive. We have used road fabric in the past on other projects. Usually a minimum of 6-8" of rock on the fabric. But doesn't seem to be much of a difference between when we use fabric and not. I'd rather go deeper with the rock and not use the fabric if it was one or the other. I'm sure soil types and drainage also makes a difference, especially if it's wet most of the year.
Thanks for the video as I am about to do the same thing. I never though about using the rake backwards. Seems to work quite well. I just hope mine comes out as well as yours. I am on straight clay soil and used 10"- 12" of "pit run" on top of the clay and will use geotextile cloth then about 4"- 5" of 3/4" minus slate.
It came out nice. Wondered if more bucket work would have made the raking a little easier and faster. Thanks for sharing your projects with us
Don't think so...if I could raise the 3 point higher and had more material down, those two things would have helped a lot
With my 30 yr old JD Model 170 for experience, I am configuring a KUBOTA BX2680 to fix 2 600’ gravel driveways and clear 3 acres and build a new 800’ driveway. Your excellent videos continue to be my schoolhouse. Family property so I am proposing to start, spring 2024. Geotextile stabilization fabic, depth that I should dig for the base, stone size of the base layer… are all unresolved for me. Pls keep the open & honest vids coming. I am counting on them. Thx!
Thanks for sharing.
In my humble opinion, I would have used the skid steer although this was not that lesson. Live and learn. That is my motto also.
Great video as usual!
Right at the end he said the JCB skid steer was down. But I agree.
Back blading with the JCB with the automatic detach bucket would have worked better lmao 😂🤣. Great video as always thanks for the content
Haha, now that would have been frustrating!
Great content!!
Hi Courtney,
Just from a block base building perspective, yes a good geo fab will stop sub base material migration into the grade you cut (or the original base) it also helps with stability of the sub base overall. If you had a soft spot that could cavitate under the sub base, the fabric helps prevent that from happening, because the erosion has to pull the entire wieght of that "slab" you built in order to cause holes, dips, and general instability. I would always reccomend compaction, the heavier the better, especially on te original cut grade (o.g. base). Setting that grade first is critical. You can compact the sub base above, but realize that the results wont be as effective due to the textile stopping the sub from driving into the base. As for weed prevention, yes it will stop weeds from coming up through the bottom, but unless you can keep every bit of organic out of the sub base, all the time (which is impossible) then weeds will eventually grow even in the best laid base. Kinda like a rose growing through a crack in the concrete. Not very likely, but given the exact needed conditions, it is possible. Didnt mean to lecture, just hoping the info will help in future projects. Looks good!!
Geocell/Geogrid might cost more, and will need more gravel to fill up each grid, but will hold your gravel pad a lot better on the long run. And this is definitely a 2 tractor job, larger for bucket work to spread gravel around, and lighter to do the top coat grading and smoothing out.
Yeah, turned out good in the end at least :)
Best thing ive used to spread/smooth fresh stone is land plane backwards and push it instead of pulling it. If you dont have a land plane using a grader blade with the blade backwards works well too
Hey that’s the price of experience. All in all nice job and good points made for us to consider on similar projects
Definitely, hope it helps other folks too
Thanks for keeping it real, a tractor helps, but not a magic bullet
I’ve spread gravel on geotex with my tractor as well. I’ve had nothing but trouble doing anything other than back dragging with the bucket to spread gravel. I put down geogrid below the geotex as well, and the pad is very hard and supports anything I drive on it. I tried to use a rake on my pad as well and it was a nightmare. Tore up the cloth in a few places before I just went back to back dragging. Although where the rake worked it worked really, really well.
Water and compacting will help lessen the rock sliding over the fabric.when the rock is wet its heavy and will stick together .its alot easier to strike off compacted rock than loose rock , good rule of thumb do your finish work after water and compacting😊
I've installed a decent amount of gravel trails in the parks I work at. I have used both geocell and fabrics. I have also not used anything other than gravel. I think for the cost of fabric it really is beneficial to use. The geocell stuff I don't think I would use again. Usually do 4" of 304 then top with 411s. Seems to hold up well especially in wet areas.
Don't typically need geo textile.. its best for wet areas .. it also makes reworking the gravel areas a nightmare unless it's 6-8" us a actual base stone then the fine grade finish stone and it all locks together
Great point. Tons of rain on the coast of Maine, and I’m dealing with ledge as my foundation. In places, I expect to hit ledge. I’m thinking that I will need to install a base layer of Geocell. Driveway will be on an incline, ending 75’ from the shorefront I like your suggestion 6-8” of base. Should I use geotextile as well?
These areas tend to hold water...my property was an absolute mud pit all winter last year.
We've all had those days!
Ain't they fun!?
Watch the video, your gauge wheels are not even touching the ground. The best way to use this attachment, is to replace the center link with a length of chain. When you lower at the three point, the rake can pivot and follow the contour of the plane of wheels. The rocking of the tractor will has less impact on the rake.
This even more effective with three point mounted mowers and brushhogs. Using a chain center link that is just long enough to raise the unit, will allow it to pivot and stay level to uneven ground. As aside, using a chain harrow to smooth the stone area works really well.
They do touch, but they also come up. That's the problem with too big of a tool. You can't make the appropriate adjustments. It won't raise any higher which would have been helpful to rock it back and ride more on the wheels. Chain has limititations too. This is meant to show you not to use too big a tool as I'm often asked "why not" by customers.
Considering all you went through, I think it's a great finished result with what you had to work with.
Thank you sir
The trucker should of had a spreader box on his truck. Our local guy that we use does and does a super job.
Thank you for the video.
Learned from Digginglife21, backing up with a box blade can work well, once you get a level spot established. Like rolling a wet edge with paint. Well kind of
I would have thought a land plane would have worked better for this. If I'm wrong please let me know why. Next spring i have a similar project and that's what i was planning.
Yep, land plane would have worked great. However, I like to show a variety of setups on my channel. Never know what's clanking around in someone's mind, so I mix it up...good and bad.
If you could have used water in it after getting it spread and would have got it wet the ran a vibrant roller on a skid steer could of helped it pack and harden up more than still been loose.
Another great tool on spreading rock is using a power rake it helps smooth it out and helps to move the rock around. I use one to help maintain the drive way and you can get it to dig down and chop out the pot holes then can smooth it out. I believe there should be at least 6inches of stone over any road fabric!!!!
Looks like a job for a box blade without tines. The fabric wouldn't have been an issue.
those wheels work well when you push
I feel your pain, watching the struggle. I use a landplane way quicker and the fabric is a waste of time and money. Unless you are in a wet land and then you can use larger stones then cap it with fines.😢😊
I have had very mixed results with fabric. It sucks on a slope, I am definitely not as big a fan as some people are. And if you ever have to trench through it, it definitely sucks. Have a wonderful day and great video.
I think I would have used the bucket on the 1025r to smooth out the big humps then use the rake for the final touches, I think you could have done less passes with the rake that way. That’s just one armchair quarter backs opinion lol
Lots of ways to get it done!
First mistake was using the fabric paper it does not prevent the Stone from sinking if you have soft areas I would recommend using much bigger Rock first rent a roller compact it down and then just go over with stone or recycle Blacktop I use recycled blacktop on all my projects driveways parking area so it's cheap and it works
That is the primary purpose of fabric...to prevent stone from sinking.
Hey Courtney, Thanks for sharing the video. It’s helpful because I’m going to be putting in a gravel road and I do have road fabric to lay underneath. Final thoughts on the wheels used with the rake? Do you notice much of a difference when you the rake without the wheels? I’m still trying to figure out what benefit they provide.
Yeah, the rake will dig down much more aggressively without wheels. So, the wheels keep it propped up.
Im a 100% beliver in the underlayment . Save you money in years to come over rerocking.
I probably would have taken the time to remove every other tine from the rake to let more rock sift through instead of moving so much material. I feel like that might have made smoothing it out a little easier.
Neah, I'd have been half way done with the project by then, maybe more.
The old fruit of the spirit coming in to play on the day shift.
I put that down Because of a video you did before. It bit me this year. But I one up you and put chain link fence down too. What a mess.
Chain link fence eh? Haven't heard that one before!
@GoodWorksTractors yea saves on putting down#2. Or to shore up a soft spot that's soggy. Thing is. You can't go back and drag it with a box blade unless you really watch your depth. And that's what hairbrush. I snagged some fabric and you know the rest. There's no easy recovery.
Courtney, is that just crushed Limestone Gravel? Love the look of it. What's something like that go for, per yard, in MI? Might use some of that to make an RV pad.
First that fabric is ment to be under 6 to 12 inches of rock and is actually ment to keep water from getting sucked back up into Limestone gravel.
I wonder how you grade with the fabric down?
Courtney, you always talk about Rim Guard and you were one of the main people to sell me on the product. I’ve recently run into some issues with my belly mower rubbing the rear tires when I fully bring it up into locked position, where I can pin it up and use the 3 point. By me adding rim guard, does that also change the air pressure that the manufacture of the tire suggests ,before it’s filled with rim guard? Or should I be using less air. When I bought my LX2610 the salesman said if the rear tires were even a pound over it would cause them to rub the belly mower. I haven’t hit anything and I can see no changes in the underbelly or any areas that have bent or broke. Mowing season is over, so I can just take it off after today, but it’s been frustrating not being able to use 3 point attachments, without removing the belly mower every time. Any info is welcomed. Thanks again 🙏
Generally speaking, you'll run a little lower PSI with fluid flilled tires. I've never heard anyone mention that issue about the LX, but I would think that issue would come up all the time if it were true. Pressure changes with the change in temperature, so even if you weren't losing air from a leak, your tire pressure could still fluctuate. I have a hard time believing that salesman, although do expect a small clearance between the mower and tire. That's pretty common. You can't visibly see a change in 1 PSI in your tires (at least I can't), haha!
@@GoodWorksTractors , you could barely slide a piece of paper between the rear guidewheel of the mower and the rear tires of the tractor, the day I purchased it, that’s why I asked. When I ordered it, the mower wasn’t attached yet, so I didn’t notice how close the clearance was until after I purchased it and it was dropped off with the mower installed.
Uh...yeah. I would never put down road fabric or weed block without pinning it down with some landscape staples. Not a big deal if you space the staples about every 4 feet. Kind of a pain though, if you have lots of rocks already.
i'll be build a parking area this week, already got down the geo fabric and got a tooth bar from one of your sponsors
Have fun!
@@GoodWorksTractors i'm going to double the amount of clips i used so hopefully i don't pull the fabric
That looks cumbersome, my man. 🐻
Curious what road fabric you buy? Can you share a link?
Wow!! Very painful to watch for sure. A few thoughts…. Fabric is for suckers 😂😂, using gravel with fines that actually compacts when you run on it is a must and establishing a good sub grade that has been shot in with a level to be uniform is a must and lastly establish your top of stone grade on one end and carry that grade all the way across the pad as you spread it, when you get to the other side you are then done. Using a builders level, and a shot rod and putting in blue tops at finished grade insures a uniform gravel thickness. My thought as I was watching this was that I would have probably used a snow pusher with the skid shoes adjusted to the right gravel thickness minus the fabric of course. Interesting video for sure. 🔥🔥👍👍
Lol, well I don't think I needed to do all that, but you could be as detail oriented as you want. The pad is working well and there really wasn't a benefit for me spending all that extra time for a spot to store trailers. I'm happy with it :)
👍👍👍
Would that grass collection system at the corner of the building fit a JD X738 with no PTO.
Negative, this one is 3 point mount, PTO driven
Why a landscape rake over a land leveler? Would a box blade have helped prevent the catches on the fabric?
I'd use a land leveler as number 1 choice, but I like to show different things.
Box blades
Yep, I've got one. Wanted to show a rake.
Hey Courtney, did you consider using a land plane or box blade?
After I run my rake on the beach, my neighbor soothes it out with his harrow. I cannot run my rake backwards because the gage wheels are too close to the rake.
Interesting..yeah these stick out quite a ways
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Thanks Ross!
I still say someone needs to build a mini grader.
Haha!
Looks like a land plane or box blade would have been the ticket.
Hey just have the neighbors dress in storm trooper gear if they are hunting near the property line, they wouldn't be able to hit a thing!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Here is my issue with driveway fabric. They want you to use metal horseshoe pins to secure it to the ground, which is great until 2-5 years down the line and the fabric and subsequent metal pins pull up and bend into all kinds of tire popping contortions of rusty tetanus inducing metal land mines. Tractor tires can handle them for the most part, but car tires are guaranteed to snag these rusty metal crows feet and create slow leaks in all your automotive tires.
Edit: it’s always frustrating when you realize how many passes are needed when attempting to spread wet stone. There are some industrial road munchers that could potentially handle the stone better, but at what cost?
I haven't used any pins to hold down fabric. I can see that being an issue though. Perhaps there's a plastic pin or even wood? It only needs to be held down temporarily until the material is on top. Plus, I'd think if you just pins in the far corners, then that would be the least likely area for a vehicle to drive on.
@@GoodWorksTractors, I’m with you on everything you said. It’s been my same issue with weed fabric used in the fields. After 1 year of following the instructions, I learned to never use those metal fasteners again. The fabric pulls away from them over time and now you have a field full of little metal fabric staples (never good). I moved onto the rock method the following year and had much more success. I’ll send you in some pictures of the multiple 5 gallon buckets I’ve filled with jagged pieces of rusty metal from using road fabric on my 3/4 mile long gravel lane 3 years ago. I’m still picking the tire popping bastards up after every major rain because it exposes them. Good luck in the future with that stuff, I hope you don’t run into any of the same problems I have.
Maybe im being dense, but wouldnt your land plane have done a better job, considering what you were trying to do?
I mean ya got there in the end, so didnt fail... But was kinda curious if that wouldnt have delt with the mounds faster.
Definitely....point was to show a different tool. I don't try to show the same thing over and over, but different setups that work or don't work...80% of tractor owners have never owned one before. They have lots of questions about why can't I do "insert whatever"...so I do stuff like this to show what happens
would the box/leveler combo have done better on this gravel?
rather than using an oversized landscape rake?
course, but point was to show something different, not something I've already shown
@@GoodWorksTractors more of a "what's the best option?" Question than a critique. But thanks for going through all that to show how to do something of this scale!
@@Stromdiddy18 yeah for sure, I had an appropriately sized box blade and land plane out there, just wanted to use a rake. Thanks for watching!
Would a land plane worked better on that situation? It seems more of a tool designed for that. (i'm sure you must have one of those someplace lying around.. LOL.. )
Why didn't you use a land plane?
I've shown land planes a lot, wanted to show what a different tool could do.
would a land plane do well at this?
Yes it would
@@GoodWorksTractors thanks brotha
I thought you had a skid steer
I completely understand the frustration of not really having the right tool for the job, especially spreading gravel like that!
Ideally I would have used a box scraper, but you use what you have.
I have a lot of practice with rear blades so I probably would have used one and demonstrated how useful a rear blade can be. I’m not saying you should or should not have used a rear blade. They can be as frustrating as they are versatile.
I would also rent a small drum compactor and then get another load of gravel. Not saying you should or shouldn’t, just what I would do based on my past experiences.
Thanks for watching sir, have a good day!
@@GoodWorksTractors Tracked tractors have a nice stable platform and can grade surprisingly well. Just a thought 😎
@@PurpleNovember Haha!
you can see in the video the wheels aren't doing anything when your in a full pull
Ideally, I could have lifted the 3 point higher and changed the angle. Could have done it with a smaller rake.
just a random question, but am I the only one that thinks the 2038r is hard to get on and off of
I don't find it difficult.
@@GoodWorksTractors well im kind of short so i have the seat up really far
You keep mentioning a barn ., i dont see a barn ? Can you show the barn
Are you trolling me? You've seen my barn many times
@GoodWorksTractors nope not trolling. I've seen a shop. A shop is a heated storage and workplace for machinery . A shed is similar but usually cold storage. A barn is where you keep pigs cows and horses 🐎.
Least where I come from. 🙂
It's your shop (barn) and your channel ....you can call it whatever you like. But every time you say barn I'm looking for the cows hay and manure .....
Ps. Love you channel keep up the "GOOD WORKS"😉
Haha, well call me a traditionalist, but I just go by the defintion of a barn. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barn
A shop has many definitions, none of which you described: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shop
And for the record, I love your comments...I'm having fun with ya :)
It’s not worth it