I avoided JD simply for the fact to boycott them for the hoard the software debacle they played on our Farmers. They lost that suit as well as Apple just lost theirs. Not allowing an owner access to information or tools to do a repair is ridiculousness.
I have watched alot of tractor content since purchasing a Kioti earlier this year. Messick has some good content but the most punchable face personality, lol. I continue to watch you, Tractor Time with Tim and GP outdoors and love to keep learning. It seems clear that Kubota has been eroding away at JD market share for the last 20 years, and I think you will see Kioti and Kubota continue to grow while JD shrinks in the compact tractor arena. Big Ag and Construction is a whole different story.
Like you said Courtney, the other exciting aspect for us consumers (that not many know about) with TYM's acquisition of Kukje Machinery (Branson) is their engine and other machinery production that comes with that acquisition. Now, TYM has their own engine production in-house, and that is a big step forward.
I owned a JD 750 Compact for thirty years. Nice little machine, but parts got scarce and the dealer was always too busy. A couple years ago, I bought a Bobcat 45hp compact tractor with a cab that is made by Kioti. There are dealers close by and they have been very responsive. The price was right, and they had the machine in stock. Deere was a 6 month wait. I now have 150 hours on the Bobcat and no problems. I sure am loving that cab!!!
Great Video. Living in south Jersey farm area, JD and Kubota are kings and have been forever. Now these other quality tractors are coming around. I found a Kioti dealer close by and went with them. I compared apples to apples and paid way less with great dealer support for parts and mechanics. I was told by other Kioti dealers in PA and TN that all Kioti dealers prioritize fixing a customer’s tractor if they purchased it from them as opposed to taking it to a different Kioti dealer. I’m assuming that is common courtesy for most brands? Buyer loyalty I guess? For a compact tractor (40hp and lower) it’s amazing to research how long some of these companies have been in the country. Plus Kioti engine parts a quite interchangeable with specific series making them readily available or easier to come by. Good research Courtney. Love watching videos backed by data and facts to show there are more than just JD and Kubota. Heck, even if I had deep pockets I would still choose my Kioti CK3520SE. One of my buddies has been a long time JD guy. He saw mine and what I paid and he’s now pursuing getting one for his landscaping business and some moderate farm work.
Thanks for your comments Eric. I'm kind of torn on that comment the Kiot dealer made about prioritizing their own customer's tractors first. I get the loyalty aspect of it. However, if I found a good deal on a used unit and saved thousands compared to a new one, that would be hard to pass up. I'd be pretty frustrated if it was in for repair and the dealer kept bumping other repairs ahead of mine for this reason. I guess if you know it up front, then fair game though.
With respect to overall dealership numbers over time..... I know here in New England the larger shops often buy up the smaller mom & pop family type businesses to consolidate their reach in the area. Sad to see the little guy get pushed out like that and the consumer have less options. Great video!
@@GoodWorksTractors Indeed! The one large shop (multiple locations) I have done some business with over time is indifferent to the customer from what I can see. I much prefer the smaller dealers generally.
In a free market, which the tractor market is effectively as free as it can be, the buyout and decline in smaller dealer numbers can be countered by new entrants. However the tractor market seems to be very conservative. To be honest a rigid framed tractor can be a very simple machine. There are a number of main components and most are fairly easily available on the market to buy or can be made in a factory. Of course there is a lot of detail that goes into a tractor but compared to many other vehicles or machines there is a lot less going on.
The John Deere dealership information about loss of dealerships is mostly due to one strong dealership buying out smaller dealerships in their areas. I know of one area where this one dealership bought out 16 smaller dealerships and they closed and consolidated into less showrooms.
I grew up in PA on a dairy farm, and we had International Harvester dad tried JD, Massey, Ford, but none performed as good also IH had the best service even though they were higher priced, also tried Oliver and Minneapolis Moline, Case all had local dealers
Enjoying your channel the input from trade shows for subcompacts and tree related attachments. I have a 2305 with the solid Rops always bumping into branches low overhead woodsheds. With the price of land and the big farms. Perhaps more folks going into small farming, including organic. The large manufactures could do well to maintain smaller dealers in places where a big dealer may have had to shut down.
I appreciate your videos, you're a lot more open-minded than a lot of the other ones putting videos and content out there that only talk about one brand, either it be the green or the orange, they get so proud of their green tractor that they try to make you feel like a fool for even contemplating any other brand or vice versa with the orange brand. You took a risk on a summit tractor, I find that to be a big plus, and now you're selling Kioti, which I think will work just fine. Of course I have nothing against John Deere or Kubota other than they're really high price, but there are other tractor Brands out there that are just fine with plenty of support and have been around for quite some time. So thank you for the videos and not pushing one brand only
I remember watching agday early in the morning many years ago. Loved the show. One thiyi can remember STRONGLY is Mahindra......never heard of Mahindra in my life all we had was deere and Kubota in my area. Fast forward many years later and i recently tractor shopped (over a year) and decided on Mahindra. Many reasons for choosing it for my business. The dealer was AMAZING from the first visit, many years in business, he took time to help decide which machine made the most sense for my business, i was aware that tym, Mitsubishi partnered to produce Mahindra however the machine felt perfect. The dealer was the MAIN deciding factor on my purchase as i drive by deere and Kubota dealers to get to this place however i didn't get the same vibes from other dealers that i got from the Mahindra people. Im overall happy with the purchase.
Courtney I grew up on farmall 300 tricycle gas burner did everything on the farm. Cant understand why they fizzled out but since Ive had a Ford Belarus Massey feruson and now I have 2 l series Kubotas. These Kubotas are my favorite now. Thanks for all you videos KEEP M COMIN!!!!
Very interesting run down. I’ve done some brand shopping (ain’t it great to have choices?), and have been impressed with the design & features that Yanmar & TYM, for example, have to offer as standard eqpt that green & orange charge a premium for. I’m gonna have to think really hard why I would pay ~25% more for green & orange. That’s a lot of attachments or implements to do the real work that I’m buying a tractor for. If all of these “other” brands were junk, you can bet that the grapevine would spread the word - fast. Only foolish companies would risk selling junk if they’re trying to chip away at green & orange. Used to be that orange was ~25% cheaper than green. I’m sensing what may be the beginning of another wave of competition.
The TYM T474 Kukje engine is supposed to be the best diesel engine out there. The TYM 2515H (Branson) that I have, is such a nice tractor. I love that tractor. Incredibly comfortable seat that i can push all the way back and my feet don't touch the pedals. I am 6'2". But, do your due diligence and find what you think is best for you. I was going either Massey or Kubota. But the TYM was much less expensive and seemed better made. Metal hood, metal fenders and no electronics were a huge plus.
Courtney, there are two ways to count dealerships. Physical stores or companies. Deere has consolidated its network to a fairly small number of companies. Like less than 50. We have two companies in our state, with multiple locations. And both of them cover more than one state. It is not a monopoly and it is real close. So if one wants Deere, it is really like a monopoly at that point.
I just watched your video and wondered why you didn't cover more information about Kioti tractors since you're selling them. I was hoping to get your insight on them. Thanks for the video.
In NY I call it John Deere Mafia. They snuffed out all the mom and pops and are building or are consolidating into the bigger dealers. Harley did the same thing are there not doing so great now. Time will tell, but I miss the small places. Kioti is gaining ground with the price first, but the word of mouth is backing up the quality, spec sheet and options that are standard.
Could definitely be that. But, that just means fewer tractors per location sold. Shrinks the gap between tractors sold per location with JD and Kubota vs the rest of the field.
What JD has done on their dealers is to move them away from small family dealerships to larger corporate dealers that are in several statea for economies of scale for both these dealerships and JD. That is fine, because it is their business. HOWEVER I have read accounts where JD was heavy handed on these smaller dealerships and basically forced them to sellout. The biggest example of this was JD would refuse to let these small dealerships to continue to sell some of the more profitable lines and their customers had to go somewhere else. Good video and a lot of food for thought.
Just some additional data for your consideration. Bobcat has 1,400 US dealers. Bobcat is highly motivated to be a major player in this segment. They are constantly having spiff contests for salespeople in these products, but not in their other lines. This is not because the tractors weren’t selling (they were), but Bobcat really wants IMO to use these tractors as a gateway drug to buying their attachments. This is why their tractors are usually selling for less than the Kioti equivalent, despite having a better FEL and some other standard features that Kioti doesn’t. They are running thin margins on the tractor itself because they know they can make the margins when they sell a box blade, or snowblower, or angle blade, or whatever. So this does change the math here a little. Bobcat’s tractor line is going to be a significant player in the future.
We recently got a Bobcat dealer in my small town. The closest tractor dealer is about 15 miles from me and it’s a kubota ….ive bought 2 tractors from this dealer over the last 10 years (upgrade ) and so far it’s been a smooth process to buy , maintain and answer questions.. A friend of mine was looking into a new tractor for his second property to maintain….I recommended the kubota dealer I go to. He said he went and checked on bobcat tractors and was intrigued because of the lesser cost than kubota for a similar size tractor …about $4000 in savings he said. Long story short he bought a brand new bobcat and had it delivered ….the very next day he was using it on a small project and it quit running. Called the dealer and they ask him a few questions and then recommended he bring it to the dealer. He told them he has no way to bring it back and was frustrated cause it was brand new and quit already. The dealer came and got it and 2 days later called my buddy and said HE blew the engine up! Said it was low on oil and didn’t check it before he used the tractor! He absolutely lost his sh*t and said he’ll be contacting his lawyer…..needless to say he got a brand new replacement tractor less than a week later… Maybe it’s just this dealer that was rather shady with this situation but I’m not real confident about bobcat tractors with dealer support. Being this dealer was new they obviously didn’t handle the situation properly but still.
Around here in New York state, it appears that John Deere had separate smaller consumer and agricultural dealerships and they built new huge dealerships and combined both types of dealerships into one. With large parts warehouses right at the dealerships. As a residential consumer, I have only ever had to get a part ordered once in almost 30 years as a customer. Everything else has been in stock locally. A relative has a Deere lawn tractor built in the 60s, it’s still running, and the few parts he has needed have been *in stock* at the dealership. Talk about good support from the brand. I like the new dealerships because they have such a large range of products on their lot that you can try out. It’s good marketing. And it has likely streamlined their supply chain and allows them to stock more parts locally. So, yes, we have less dealerships now, but the dealerships are really good destinations. They even have lots of clothing and toys. There are always many customers there, the guys, the women and there kids. I am pretty impressed with the number of women I have run into at my local dealership. And they know their tractors.
While the compact tractor customer probably doesn’t care about the consolidated deere dealers, the majority of large ag customers seem to see this as a negative. Parts inventory slashed and shared between branches and no competition (list price sales). Good information thanks for sharing
I’m glad you’re looking into several brands, but I would like to hear your thoughts on Yanmar, not just the motor. After 5.4 hrs, 😂 I still like my little SA325.
Having a dealership close by is a good reason for brand selection if the capability and value are there. But I've had a Yanmar for 30 years and it still hasn't seen the dealership because it has never had a problem. So a very reliable brand may negate dealer proximity. If I do ever have a problem, the 1 trip to the dealer farther away is a good trade off. However, I can't find any upgrades(accessories, etc.) to a unit that wasn't sold in large numbers.
The faster a piece of equipment pays for itself, the lower the risk of ownership. A cheaper tractor that pays for itself faster than a more more expensive tractor often is the best choice.
There's also dealers that carry multiple tractor brands that may skew sales numbers. There's dealers in my area that are LS & TYM, Case IH & Mahindra, New Holland & Kubota.
When I bought my Kioti DK5310SE in 2021, my Kioti/TYM dealer said in 2020 they sold 441 tractors. The split was about 300 Kiotis and 140 TYMs in 2020. This would include tractors in the under 40hp as well as the 40-100hp categories. They are a somewhat larger dealer, but that gives you an idea what a dealer was selling at the recent market peak. For your per-dealer numbers, most dealers sell the whole line of tractor horsepower, so you'd need to add in units for above 40hp. My cousin owns a Kioti dealership in Montana and I get the sense that they sell a couple dozen tractors a year, but have been selling Kioti since the 1990s and have a decent installed base.
Just a dumb observation but I really liked how you handled the spider. Another note on JD. I worked at a dealership in south Texas in the small engine dept and in the year I was there they acquired at least 5 more stores...
Your did not account for New Holland and CaseIH which are huge ag equipment manufacturers who have almost 1400 dealers in the US. Yes, I know their tractors are LS made but its a large number of dealers compared to how many LS has in the US.
Yep, had them written down and skipped right over them. I don't see where you got 1,400 dealers from though. Would you please send a link? I cannot find this information on CNH's website. Thanks!
Just Google it. There are 711 CaseIH dealerships in the United States and 671 New Holland. They are the #2 and #3 ag equipment manufacturers in the world. I know that Kubota sells more compact tractors but Kubota has barely broken the ice into large Ag. I know it is hard to believe but there are parts of the country that have more CaseIH dealers than John Deere dealers and in most areas it is close to 1:1
Courtney, that dealership count might be misleading. For example, there's a JD local dealer that has 7 different locations across two states (PA & NY) with another JD dealer that has 10 locations here in upstate NY. Each of which has at least 10 compacts/subcompacts out front. So, JD may be counting each dealer as one, but they have the many multiple sites that cover huge areas (perhaps due to consolidation over the years or just plain growth). I'd take those dealership numbers with a grain of salt without further clarification. Also, I'd offer that the distances that people drive nowadays are different that they were in the 60's: driving 20 miles was a big deal in 1963, but a trivial matter nowadays so social change affects the dealer radius. Great video. Thanks!
I’m wondering if Deere actually lost those dealership locations or… if so many smaller dealerships were bought out by a bigger conglomerate. for instance … United Ag took over at least 10 smaller mom and pops here in Texas. The locations are still there but all under the same name. You think that may be the case? I’ve heard Deere actually incentivizes this scenario. Less competition , so they can charge more per unit.
Depends on how they count these numbers. Because in my area, 3 independent JD dealers consolidated under 1 name, but kept individual dealership locations
You mention parts availability. "bota & jd barely support newer models they sell. They have to order almost everything (had a dealer tell me it would be a week to get a sheer bolt for a year old snowblower in the middle of winter, oh and because it was a special order, tack on $5 for a $3.50 part) let alone something that's 20 years old. Planned obsolescence sucks for the consumer.
i bought a used BX2350 with the 54" deck and rear snowblower for 8k probably 5 years ago. it had 300 hours on it. i put an additional 350 hours on it. it has been trouble free until i had a very recent steering valve and just started leaking. i added a 4ft roto tiller, loader, and bagger system. it has been a good machine for me, but it also needs seat. if i ever traded it in i would buy a B01 series.
I do all my own service and am not close to any dealers so rely on mail ordered parts. Messicks makes this quite easy and fast compared to my Kioti parts. Waiting 7-10 days is frustrating.
John Deere corporate forced basically all the smaller independent dealers to quit or sell out to the bigger mega dealerships. I had a really good local dealer that was forced to sell out to a different dealership with 18 different locations. They really went downhill after that.
Same thing happened here where I live in south Central Pennsylvania. John Deere cut the dealership off some years ago maybe 10 years, and consolidated. 4 dealerships in the area have been gobbled up by a large East Coast dealer. They seem a bit disconnected and their service is really lacking and that's putting it nicely. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking about leaving green and looking at Kubota.
I agree completely. I have been looking for a smaller cab size tractor, with a relatively higher horsepower for frame size. I started out with John Deere 3 series. When I found out they are made of plastic, have a Yanmar engine, and harder to to diy maintenance. Also overall not impressed with capacitys. I dropped John Deere. Started looking at Yanmar, Kubota, and Kioti.
Especially in the compact/subcompact market, a business model bypassing traditional dealers, free open source service manuals, and an online parts warehouse that delivers to your door in days instead of weeks or months might be the thing. I would buy that.
At the end of the day; you get what you pay for. I just rebuilt the engine on a 1990s JD 955 and JD had all of the internal engine parts in stock and honestly pretty reasonably priced. Good luck getting parts for half those other brands in 30 years.
glad for your experience, but kinda sounds like you didn't watch the video. kubota already has models with unavailable parts from the 90's. and these some of these other brands have had a US market for 30-50 years already. likewise, my JD dealer never has parts in stock. they are available for order, but not in stock.
John Deere compact tractors almost seem cheaper built with higher prices than some of the other brands over the last 20 years. Global economy has changed alot of things for better or worse. I personally think Kioti is one of the better value brands as far as best bang for the buck. They are a global company, parts won't be an issue as they continue to grow and expand into the US.
Like mentioned…I think you have to go deeper in those revenues. JD figure also includes ALL their construction equipment and mowers as well which makes up the largest % of their revenue. Have absolutely loved my TYM and Kioti. Still have a large green mower, but have to have parts ordered everytime I need something. Never wait with my TYM/Kioti dealer here.
Brand A reports so many dealers, Brand B reports some many dealers, Brand C reports so many dealers. Problem is, some dealers may sell 2, 3, 4 or more different brands and so the numbers are severely skewed as one single dealer may be counted as 4 dealers when you add up the numbers reported by individual brands.
I would be interested in seeing the same video but with the numbers of just tractors below a certain size. Say 60hp. Think of the money Kubota sees from excavators and skid steers same as jd sees with big ag tractors and combines. I think kioti and Ls etc have a bigger piece of the pie if you look at it that way. Great video
@@GoodWorksTractors yea that would be tough to find. I guess if you could find units sold and average prices. I’m in western Washington and it seems that I see far more new kioti, Ls and mahindra than jd and Kubota. I went kioti and it’s been a good experience.
Interesting stuff, thanks. "In God I trust, all others bring data" BTW, I didn't know that about my phone calculator either by turning it horizontal. It 'is' a Scientific calculator like your Brother said.
In my area all the dealers within a 50 -75 miles radius of me. Are now the same name. I have lived in this area 34 years. These dealers were all different names/owners' operators.
Summit is sold by Home Depot and Tractor Supply co. in my area. Never have seen anything for tractors at Tractor Supply, not even an implement. And what does HD know about tractors!
I believe the JD loss of dealerships is a deceptive number. I think it's due to consolidation. Are all the Ag-pro's considered 1 dealer or over 100 dealers. Recently in Ohio, FIC combined 5-6 dealers under 1 name.
As far as the number of dealerships there are, I'm wondering if it has to do with in Michigan where I have lived for 60 years farming has drastically went down hill it seems especially in the past 15 or 20 years. Also the number of people farming has went down. If I'm a farmer and I already have all the equipment, if I buy your farm doesn't mean I need more tractors. So the number of small farms each with their own equipment has went drastically down to.
My Mahindra 1526 was made by Mitsubishi. My understanding is that it was the Cub Cadet model before Mahindra acquired that line. That holds true for other Cub Cadet models as well, at least ones made by Mitsubishi. Also as an FYI, my Mahindra dealer also sells Kioti & Massey.
Not sure if those numbers are for new units or also include used. Our local Massey dealer does a lot more than 2 a month. They have 2 auctions a year and there are at least 30-40 used tractors each time they sell. So they must be selling a bunch of new ones. Also, some dealers sell multiple brands, so they may count as multiple dealers in the count, but only have one front side business with multiple brands.
If you want some insight on why tractor dealerships are decreasing just google how much farm ground is disappearing. The loss of farm acreage is FAR more concerning than how many dealers of green or orange tractors there are.
Something to note on John Deere losing dealerships. There is more and more consolidation with one company owning multiple locations. Sometimes this is a consolidation effort if there are dealerships too close together. Case IH the same thing. For example, one of the companies that I worked for back in 2011 was a John Deere dealership with four locations. Today they have 28 locations. But one company.
I think if you were to overlay changes in farming from the 1970 to now you will find I direct correlation between the size of farms and the size of equipment used back then vs today. Which in turn I believe helps explain the reduction in dealer locations. Less farmers, larger machines covering much larger farming operations equaling less customers and less need for dealers to be located in every little rural town throughout the farming communities around the country.
Courtney when you look at it the small family farms are disappearing, and are being replaced with corporate farms. What that leaves is the hobby farm and people who want big toys. Like your self you want quality and you don’t want to spend a lot of time traveling to buy parts or accessories.
Some of the dealers manufacturers claim are dealers are just mom and pop lawn mower shops. Not to separate them, but they don’t really fall into what anyone would think of when they think of a “dealer.”
The John Deere dealership closing im guessing is mostly due to the farms closing over the same time period. And John Deere forcing out the small dealerships, either be part of their cooperation or nothing. I know both Deere dealerships around here are changed to "United ag and co " or something like that. They used to have different names .
This might be a better question to ask Tractor Mike, but let's say a person leases a tractor instead of a cash deal, Can that sque the numbers of a sale because the guy that has the tractor is not the true owner of this machine. This is the same with rental cars. A person do,s not own the car a leasing company owns it until sold to a second owner? Your thoughts
I used to have two JD dealers within 30 minutes of me. Both gone now. There is one Kubota dealer that close. I can get MF (Agco) parts 20 minutes away. Made my decision easy.
I believe John Deere started to copy the Caterpillar dealership model wanting fewer dealership owners with larger footprints They did so by putting expensive demands on smaller dealerships so in many cases the smaller dealership would sell to another dealership owner with the hunger and financial wherewithal go with the program
40 years ago, I had 7 John Deere dealers within a 50 mile radius. Today I have 2. And worst of all is that neither of the two have a meaningful repair facility. They do basic maintenance, but bring in technicians from other areas for major repair work. Not a good trend. Then again, agriculture has declined in my area so I suspect there is a correlation here.
@@GoodWorksTractors If I was 30 years younger, I’d buy a service truck and try to get arrangements with a couple of the lesser brands and provide mobile service for them. I suspect one could make a decent living doing this if you didn’t mind a little travel.
As you mention, data can be twisted and manipulated in many different ways. One thing to remember is that the big measure is sales dollars. The advantage Kubota and especially Deere have is that their dealerships sell many more tractors than just compact tractors. While fewer in number, the large tractors sell for much more money at much more margin dollars. The compact tractor has become a commodity with so much competition and the margin is small. If you need a 100hp tractor, you have much less choice.
Exactly the reason to not buy Deere for a compact tractor. Ask any Deere owner over the last 10 years their experience getting a tractor serviced. Its garbage, they have 2 month wait times to fix something simple. Dealerships prioritize larger commercial tractors. They have a lawsuit because they dont release their manuals. Tractor owners can turn a wrench but have to wait for the dealer to service because thats in the contract for them to sell the tractors. The market share has gone from 80% down to 65% in the last few years for Deere and Kubota and will continue to go down.
The reason the number of actual Dealers has fallen over the years is the manufacturers have shut down the small mom and pop family dealerships. They've done this essentially by requiring dealers to buy or plan more machines/equipment. The small dealer's couldn't afford this concept and closed. The reason the Deere and Kubota annual revenue is so high is that they make more types/models of equipment. Both sell a really large number of just engines to other manufacturers. Deere even sells marine engines and transmissions. Deere also has the largest trademarked products being clothes, tools, toys, housewares, windmills, insurance, etc....
Hard to know for sure how many of the dealers counted by Deere are dealer locations or ownership groups. At that number, knowing how much consolidation that has gone on, it almost has to be locations. CNH( CaseIH and New Holland) and Agco(Massey Ferguson), along with Deere and Kubota probably makes up 90-95% of compact dealers. Not only that, but almost every CNH dealer also sells Kubota, just like Messick’s does. And Doosan is the owner of both Daedong and Bobcat, so Bobcat isn’t likely paying for Kioti tractors to white label a tractor in the traditional sense.
Kubota Tech here. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but when it comes to service parts (like annual maintenance) I've never experienced the parts department having to order anything. It's already in stock. I hope to all that watch the video or read this comment that you can do your own service. As a tech, we all hate doing them. Yes, they can help when you have 3 or 4 big jobs going and you are waiting on parts to arrive (aka engine rebuilds, hydraulic pump replacements, clutch replacement). The services can keep you busy. The only reason I see taking your equipment in for a service is to have someone who is wholly familiar be able to put eyes on the unit and see if you have any other issues that may cause you problems.
From a poll I did awhile back, something like 80% of folks do their own regular service. From experience of dealing with John Deere, Kubota, Kioti, and other dealers in my area and other parts of the country for the last decade, dealers have had to order in parts very frequently for all OEM's. There's no way on earth that you guys have all the parts in stock. In fact, I'd say over the last year, 80% of the parts we've needed from dealers regardless of brand had to be ordered and weren't on the shelf.
@@GoodWorksTractors and this is why I specified service parts. As in both air filters, both fuel filters, both hydraulic filters (for hst), oil filter and the oils to go with it. No we don't order that stuff, because it stays stocked. Can you give examples of the type of parts you are referring to?
0:12-0:17 "I don't know the last time I went to my Kubota or JD dealer to have something serviced, where they didn't have to order in parts. I mean they ALL have to order in parts." This is the section I was referring to. Idk what you implied, but I infer it to mean your regular service, aka filters and the like. Is my interpretation correct? Or did you mean something else?
@@GoodWorksTractors I'm glad we clarified that then, just for future reference, that is what having it serviced means. And there isn't a dealer in the world that will stock random things that are just going to sit on a shelf for years for the random passerby that just so happens to need that part. They stock common parts that are (a) wear items or (b) the system they use is telling them that some part has a tendency to move because it uses past data year over year to predict what is needed. It's a business, no need in stocking parts that will just sit on your books. Anyway, glad we could clear things up. I do enjoy most of your videos so please don't think I'm just some internet troll.
AUG 4 2021 TYM has announced that it has recorded 461.8 billion won in sales, 37 billion won in operating profit, and 28.2 billion won in net profit for the first half of this year. This is a 28.7 percent increase in sales, 74.4 percent increasing in operating profit, and 94.4 percent increase in net profit compared to the same period last year.
Yanmar has made JD small engines (whatever the definition of small is). I have a Kioti, but use yanmar filters where possible because theyre less expensive. About ready to change my hydro oil. For 3 years, Ive used unbranded oils, but believe branded oils are sure better in cold weather (at least to the extent of engine sound to a nonmechanic). Ag stuff is all mixed up like a 100# ball of baling wire which why its really hard to get trustworthy data. Prob ably, the software debacle will get worse, and will ultimately invade the compact tractor market . Maybe we should all just buy the old big iron and restore it as best as possible. People like me like to use a tractor just not fix it. We make the best guess we can avoiding JD & Kubota since there was negative experience. BUT, I also had a bad dealer repair experience with my Kioti too! Coutney, alot of us trully rely on industry people like you and tractor mike to get a little satisfaction out of avery expensive hobby.
Same, with labor shortages and inexperienced mechanics, I think with most things you are better off doing it yourself. I took my Kioti in for a mid mount PTO install and it was a disastrous experience. they put their new guy on it I can almost guarantee and parts were installed wrong, had to haul it back and forth 2 hour drive each way to the dealer twice to get it all sorted out. The only reason I took it to the dealer was they supposedly knew what they were doing and I did not. I could have figured it out.
The tractors and products are more complicated, so a bigger service dept ( better trained, specialized skills) is needed. So small dealers lose the ability to do complex machines. Mom and pop dealers do not work anymore.
For the most part, it doesn't seem like compact tractors have gotten that much more complex? Regen systems I suppose? Definitely a different story with the big Ag equipment.
Good video as always, but I would like to point out a few things. John Deere’s revenues include an insane amount of service, which basically has come at the end of a gun because of the extortion from John Deere to rape their customers. The number of tractor dealers in particular someone like John Deere has declined because the American farm and the American farmer has declined. Look at how many farmers we had in 1950 compared to today. Small and medium size farms have been in decline, family farms have been a decline for decades. And it’s not for the reasons most people think. Most of the decline in farming especially at the small and local level is because of government policies. The whole left-wing we need to protect you food safety, bullshit. This is where we get into Joel Salatin territory and the safe act, etc. if Covid had a silver lining, it’s that we recognized how fragile our food system is now that most people get their food from for major corporations, rather than small local and regional farms. 50 years ago most of our food came within a relatively small radius of our home. Today it could be coming from anywhere in rather than being healthy and natural. It’s hyper processed. Finally, I think it’s important to note that there are probably millions of people certainly hundreds of thousands of people that own a John Deere built by Yanmar. Most of John Deere’s compact and subcompact tractors for an extensive period of time were built by Yanmar and I think they still build the diesel motors used by many John Deere tractors, as well as many other brands. Yanmar is also a major player in the marine diesel market. I have been doing a lot of research on tractors, and I’m planning to buy a small tractor within the next 18 months and I’m probably going to get a Summit or a Yanmar. But I’m also going to need something bigger and that will definitely be a Yanmar. When you look at experience & history, the track record and quality, the features, especially when factoring in cost, I think Yanmar is the clear winter.
I'm guessing the reason you can't find good data on massey ferguson is due to the different levels of dealerships. For example our one local dealership was a Heston dealer but Agco rebranded all Heston equipment as massey so now that dealership is technically a massey dealership but they do not sell massey tractors
I avoided JD simply for the fact to boycott them for the hoard the software debacle they played on our Farmers. They lost that suit as well as Apple just lost theirs. Not allowing an owner access to information or tools to do a repair is ridiculousness.
I completely agree with that, absolutely ridiculous
I agree...I don't understand why more owners don't stand up to them.
I bought a Massey.
RIGHT TO REPAIR 🦍👨🌾🦍👨🌾
You've become an authority on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to do the research and present the facts. Tractor Hard. 🚜💪!
Appreciate it!
I have watched alot of tractor content since purchasing a Kioti earlier this year. Messick has some good content but the most punchable face personality, lol. I continue to watch you, Tractor Time with Tim and GP outdoors and love to keep learning. It seems clear that Kubota has been eroding away at JD market share for the last 20 years, and I think you will see Kioti and Kubota continue to grow while JD shrinks in the compact tractor arena. Big Ag and Construction is a whole different story.
Like you said Courtney, the other exciting aspect for us consumers (that not many know about) with TYM's acquisition of Kukje Machinery (Branson) is their engine and other machinery production that comes with that acquisition. Now, TYM has their own engine production in-house, and that is a big step forward.
I owned a JD 750 Compact for thirty years. Nice little machine, but parts got scarce and the dealer was always too busy. A couple years ago, I bought a Bobcat 45hp compact tractor with a cab that is made by Kioti. There are dealers close by and they have been very responsive. The price was right, and they had the machine in stock. Deere was a 6 month wait.
I now have 150 hours on the Bobcat and no problems. I sure am loving that cab!!!
Great Video. Living in south Jersey farm area, JD and Kubota are kings and have been forever. Now these other quality tractors are coming around. I found a Kioti dealer close by and went with them. I compared apples to apples and paid way less with great dealer support for parts and mechanics. I was told by other Kioti dealers in PA and TN that all Kioti dealers prioritize fixing a customer’s tractor if they purchased it from them as opposed to taking it to a different Kioti dealer. I’m assuming that is common courtesy for most brands? Buyer loyalty I guess? For a compact tractor (40hp and lower) it’s amazing to research how long some of these companies have been in the country. Plus Kioti engine parts a quite interchangeable with specific series making them readily available or easier to come by. Good research Courtney. Love watching videos backed by data and facts to show there are more than just JD and Kubota. Heck, even if I had deep pockets I would still choose my Kioti CK3520SE. One of my buddies has been a long time JD guy. He saw mine and what I paid and he’s now pursuing getting one for his landscaping business and some moderate farm work.
Thanks for your comments Eric. I'm kind of torn on that comment the Kiot dealer made about prioritizing their own customer's tractors first. I get the loyalty aspect of it. However, if I found a good deal on a used unit and saved thousands compared to a new one, that would be hard to pass up. I'd be pretty frustrated if it was in for repair and the dealer kept bumping other repairs ahead of mine for this reason. I guess if you know it up front, then fair game though.
With respect to overall dealership numbers over time..... I know here in New England the larger shops often buy up the smaller mom & pop family type businesses to consolidate their reach in the area. Sad to see the little guy get pushed out like that and the consumer have less options.
Great video!
Less options is bad for the consumer, good for the business
@@GoodWorksTractors Indeed! The one large shop (multiple locations) I have done some business with over time is indifferent to the customer from what I can see. I much prefer the smaller dealers generally.
In a free market, which the tractor market is effectively as free as it can be, the buyout and decline in smaller dealer numbers can be countered by new entrants. However the tractor market seems to be very conservative.
To be honest a rigid framed tractor can be a very simple machine. There are a number of main components and most are fairly easily available on the market to buy or can be made in a factory. Of course there is a lot of detail that goes into a tractor but compared to many other vehicles or machines there is a lot less going on.
The John Deere dealership information about loss of dealerships is mostly due to one strong dealership buying out smaller dealerships in their areas. I know of one area where this one dealership bought out 16 smaller dealerships and they closed and consolidated into less showrooms.
I grew up in PA on a dairy farm, and we had International Harvester dad tried JD, Massey, Ford, but none performed as good also IH had the best service even though they were higher priced, also tried Oliver and Minneapolis Moline, Case all had local dealers
Thanks for watching!
IH Was one of the best!
Enjoying your channel the input from trade shows for subcompacts and tree related attachments. I have a 2305 with the solid Rops always bumping into branches low overhead woodsheds.
With the price of land and the big farms. Perhaps more folks going into small farming, including organic. The large manufactures could do well to maintain smaller dealers in places where a big dealer may have had to shut down.
I appreciate your videos, you're a lot more open-minded than a lot of the other ones putting videos and content out there that only talk about one brand, either it be the green or the orange, they get so proud of their green tractor that they try to make you feel like a fool for even contemplating any other brand or vice versa with the orange brand. You took a risk on a summit tractor, I find that to be a big plus, and now you're selling Kioti, which I think will work just fine. Of course I have nothing against John Deere or Kubota other than they're really high price, but there are other tractor Brands out there that are just fine with plenty of support and have been around for quite some time. So thank you for the videos and not pushing one brand only
I remember watching agday early in the morning many years ago. Loved the show. One thiyi can remember STRONGLY is Mahindra......never heard of Mahindra in my life all we had was deere and Kubota in my area. Fast forward many years later and i recently tractor shopped (over a year) and decided on Mahindra. Many reasons for choosing it for my business. The dealer was AMAZING from the first visit, many years in business, he took time to help decide which machine made the most sense for my business, i was aware that tym, Mitsubishi partnered to produce Mahindra however the machine felt perfect. The dealer was the MAIN deciding factor on my purchase as i drive by deere and Kubota dealers to get to this place however i didn't get the same vibes from other dealers that i got from the Mahindra people. Im overall happy with the purchase.
I noticed recently that one of the local Home Depots is now selling Summit tractors. Two sitting in front of the store with the other items they sell.
Yeah, slowly expanding to more
Courtney I grew up on farmall 300 tricycle gas burner did everything on the farm. Cant understand why they fizzled out but since Ive had a Ford Belarus Massey feruson and now I have 2 l series Kubotas. These Kubotas are my favorite now. Thanks for all you videos KEEP M COMIN!!!!
Very interesting run down. I’ve done some brand shopping (ain’t it great to have choices?), and have been impressed with the design & features that Yanmar & TYM, for example, have to offer as standard eqpt that green & orange charge a premium for. I’m gonna have to think really hard why I would pay ~25% more for green & orange. That’s a lot of attachments or implements to do the real work that I’m buying a tractor for. If all of these “other” brands were junk, you can bet that the grapevine would spread the word - fast. Only foolish companies would risk selling junk if they’re trying to chip away at green & orange. Used to be that orange was ~25% cheaper than green. I’m sensing what may be the beginning of another wave of competition.
The TYM T474 Kukje engine is supposed to be the best diesel engine out there.
The TYM 2515H (Branson) that I have, is such a nice tractor. I love that tractor. Incredibly comfortable seat that i can push all the way back and my feet don't touch the pedals. I am 6'2".
But, do your due diligence and find what you think is best for you. I was going either Massey or Kubota. But the TYM was much less expensive and seemed better made. Metal hood, metal fenders and no electronics were a huge plus.
Courtney, there are two ways to count dealerships. Physical stores or companies. Deere has consolidated its network to a fairly small number of companies. Like less than 50. We have two companies in our state, with multiple locations. And both of them cover more than one state. It is not a monopoly and it is real close. So if one wants Deere, it is really like a monopoly at that point.
Thanks for your insight into this aspect of the tractor world.
Hey, always appreciate you watching!
I just watched your video and wondered why you didn't cover more information about Kioti tractors since you're selling them. I was hoping to get your insight on them. Thanks for the video.
This wasn't a video about Kioti specifically. Tractor brands in general.
I get that, but I've been watching the Kioti tractors you have for sale and additional info about their company would have been useful. Thanks
Very Well presented from your Perspective!! I find to agree with your findings Thank You 👏👍🏆🏆👴🐕🚜🤠😎🙏🙏
I appreciate your videos. I'm at the early stages of buying one myself.
In NY I call it John Deere Mafia. They snuffed out all the mom and pops and are building or are consolidating into the bigger dealers. Harley did the same thing are there not doing so great now. Time will tell, but I miss the small places.
Kioti is gaining ground with the price first, but the word of mouth is backing up the quality, spec sheet and options that are standard.
Yeah, I've heard a lot of that going on with JD. I wonder if Kubota is doing the same?
Fantastic video. Kinda gets you thinking about different brands.
In South East Minnesota the dealerships are consolidating under one dealership but the locations are still open to service the customers.
Could definitely be that. But, that just means fewer tractors per location sold. Shrinks the gap between tractors sold per location with JD and Kubota vs the rest of the field.
I'd love to see you try out a yanmar yt359. I believe they are in a class of their own with their unique (for a compact tractor) transmission.
Bring it on over!
Thanks for sharing. Love my 2023 JD 1025r. Good dealership in Alaska with several locations.
What JD has done on their dealers is to move them away from small family dealerships to larger corporate dealers that are in several statea for economies of scale for both these dealerships and JD. That is fine, because it is their business. HOWEVER I have read accounts where JD was heavy handed on these smaller dealerships and basically forced them to sellout. The biggest example of this was JD would refuse to let these small dealerships to continue to sell some of the more profitable lines and their customers had to go somewhere else.
Good video and a lot of food for thought.
Yep, I've heard several of those stories myself. Definitely a bummer!
thanx for the info... could go so deep into the who owns who,,,, great video just look at resale value to general public,,
Just some additional data for your consideration. Bobcat has 1,400 US dealers. Bobcat is highly motivated to be a major player in this segment. They are constantly having spiff contests for salespeople in these products, but not in their other lines. This is not because the tractors weren’t selling (they were), but Bobcat really wants IMO to use these tractors as a gateway drug to buying their attachments. This is why their tractors are usually selling for less than the Kioti equivalent, despite having a better FEL and some other standard features that Kioti doesn’t. They are running thin margins on the tractor itself because they know they can make the margins when they sell a box blade, or snowblower, or angle blade, or whatever.
So this does change the math here a little. Bobcat’s tractor line is going to be a significant player in the future.
We recently got a Bobcat dealer in my small town. The closest tractor dealer is about 15 miles from me and it’s a kubota ….ive bought 2 tractors from this dealer over the last 10 years (upgrade ) and so far it’s been a smooth process to buy , maintain and answer questions..
A friend of mine was looking into a new tractor for his second property to maintain….I recommended the kubota dealer I go to. He said he went and checked on bobcat tractors and was intrigued because of the lesser cost than kubota for a similar size tractor …about $4000 in savings he said. Long story short he bought a brand new bobcat and had it delivered ….the very next day he was using it on a small project and it quit running. Called the dealer and they ask him a few questions and then recommended he bring it to the dealer. He told them he has no way to bring it back and was frustrated cause it was brand new and quit already. The dealer came and got it and 2 days later called my buddy and said HE blew the engine up! Said it was low on oil and didn’t check it before he used the tractor! He absolutely lost his sh*t and said he’ll be contacting his lawyer…..needless to say he got a brand new replacement tractor less than a week later…
Maybe it’s just this dealer that was rather shady with this situation but I’m not real confident about bobcat tractors with dealer support.
Being this dealer was new they obviously didn’t handle the situation properly but still.
Around here in New York state, it appears that John Deere had separate smaller consumer and agricultural dealerships and they built new huge dealerships and combined both types of dealerships into one. With large parts warehouses right at the dealerships. As a residential consumer, I have only ever had to get a part ordered once in almost 30 years as a customer. Everything else has been in stock locally. A relative has a Deere lawn tractor built in the 60s, it’s still running, and the few parts he has needed have been *in stock* at the dealership. Talk about good support from the brand. I like the new dealerships because they have such a large range of products on their lot that you can try out. It’s good marketing. And it has likely streamlined their supply chain and allows them to stock more parts locally. So, yes, we have less dealerships now, but the dealerships are really good destinations. They even have lots of clothing and toys. There are always many customers there, the guys, the women and there kids. I am pretty impressed with the number of women I have run into at my local dealership. And they know their tractors.
I believe John Deere pushed dealers to merge and have multiple locations with 5 or more locations and 1 ordering contact they get a better price
Kind of a bummer for the independent operators
Great job of education on tractor and equipment.
While the compact tractor customer probably doesn’t care about the consolidated deere dealers, the majority of large ag customers seem to see this as a negative. Parts inventory slashed and shared between branches and no competition (list price sales). Good information thanks for sharing
Good point to consider Tim!
I have a Kìodi and need parts for the backhoe, called the dealer they said that they have the parts on the slef
Well that's pretty sweet
I’m glad you’re looking into several brands, but I would like to hear your thoughts on Yanmar, not just the motor. After 5.4 hrs, 😂 I still like my little SA325.
Having a dealership close by is a good reason for brand selection if the capability and value are there. But I've had a Yanmar for 30 years and it still hasn't seen the dealership because it has never had a problem. So a very reliable brand may negate dealer proximity. If I do ever have a problem, the 1 trip to the dealer farther away is a good trade off. However, I can't find any upgrades(accessories, etc.) to a unit that wasn't sold in large numbers.
Good info Reno, thanks for chiming in!
The faster a piece of equipment pays for itself, the lower the risk of ownership. A cheaper tractor that pays for itself faster than a more more expensive tractor often is the best choice.
There's also dealers that carry multiple tractor brands that may skew sales numbers. There's dealers in my area that are LS & TYM, Case IH & Mahindra, New Holland & Kubota.
I was at Lowes in Florida and they had LS tractors sitting outside and inside the garden center.
The utility tractor and skid steer are on the verge of a merge, and it’s destined to be epic for the compact tractor world.
How so? just curious what you mean
When I bought my Kioti DK5310SE in 2021, my Kioti/TYM dealer said in 2020 they sold 441 tractors. The split was about 300 Kiotis and 140 TYMs in 2020. This would include tractors in the under 40hp as well as the 40-100hp categories. They are a somewhat larger dealer, but that gives you an idea what a dealer was selling at the recent market peak. For your per-dealer numbers, most dealers sell the whole line of tractor horsepower, so you'd need to add in units for above 40hp. My cousin owns a Kioti dealership in Montana and I get the sense that they sell a couple dozen tractors a year, but have been selling Kioti since the 1990s and have a decent installed base.
Just a dumb observation but I really liked how you handled the spider. Another note on JD. I worked at a dealership in south Texas in the small engine dept and in the year I was there they acquired at least 5 more stores...
Your did not account for New Holland and CaseIH which are huge ag equipment manufacturers who have almost 1400 dealers in the US. Yes, I know their tractors are LS made but its a large number of dealers compared to how many LS has in the US.
Yep, had them written down and skipped right over them. I don't see where you got 1,400 dealers from though. Would you please send a link? I cannot find this information on CNH's website. Thanks!
Just Google it. There are 711 CaseIH dealerships in the United States and 671 New Holland. They are the #2 and #3 ag equipment manufacturers in the world. I know that Kubota sells more compact tractors but Kubota has barely broken the ice into large Ag. I know it is hard to believe but there are parts of the country that have more CaseIH dealers than John Deere dealers and in most areas it is close to 1:1
Yeah, from a third party site. I found that data, I don't trust it. Their information was not accurate against the manufacturer counts when available.
Great video as usual good honest information
i just bought my first tractor (ford 9n) since they are so popular and affordable could you do a video on popular attatchments for older tractors
thanks for the Ted Talk, really liked it
Excellent information
Glad it was helpful!
Courtney, that dealership count might be misleading. For example, there's a JD local dealer that has 7 different locations across two states (PA & NY) with another JD dealer that has 10 locations here in upstate NY. Each of which has at least 10 compacts/subcompacts out front. So, JD may be counting each dealer as one, but they have the many multiple sites that cover huge areas (perhaps due to consolidation over the years or just plain growth). I'd take those dealership numbers with a grain of salt without further clarification. Also, I'd offer that the distances that people drive nowadays are different that they were in the 60's: driving 20 miles was a big deal in 1963, but a trivial matter nowadays so social change affects the dealer radius. Great video. Thanks!
Ahh, maybe that explains it? Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
I’m wondering if Deere actually lost those dealership locations or… if so many smaller dealerships were bought out by a bigger conglomerate. for instance … United Ag took over at least 10 smaller mom and pops here in Texas. The locations are still there but all under the same name. You think that may be the case? I’ve heard Deere actually incentivizes this scenario. Less competition , so they can charge more per unit.
I think of a dealership as a single location. That's just how I interpreted it
Depends on how they count these numbers. Because in my area, 3 independent JD dealers consolidated under 1 name, but kept individual dealership locations
Could be!
What model Kubota is that behind you?
Kubota M5-111
@@GoodWorksTractorsit’s awesome
Iseki ,shibaura,Mitsubishi, also lond established companies that dont sell in United States under those names
You mention parts availability. "bota & jd barely support newer models they sell. They have to order almost everything (had a dealer tell me it would be a week to get a sheer bolt for a year old snowblower in the middle of winter, oh and because it was a special order, tack on $5 for a $3.50 part) let alone something that's 20 years old. Planned obsolescence sucks for the consumer.
Whew, that's a rough one!
i bought a used BX2350 with the 54" deck and rear snowblower for 8k probably 5 years ago. it had 300 hours on it. i put an additional 350 hours on it. it has been trouble free until i had a very recent steering valve and just started leaking. i added a 4ft roto tiller, loader, and bagger system. it has been a good machine for me, but it also needs seat. if i ever traded it in i would buy a B01 series.
I do all my own service and am not close to any dealers so rely on mail ordered parts. Messicks makes this quite easy and fast compared to my Kioti parts. Waiting 7-10 days is frustrating.
How can I reach out to Summit? We yet to have representation here in Canada. Thanks so much for the great videos always a pleasure to watch.
Iseki (Japan manufacturer) is missing in your list. Or is that Massey in the US?
John Deere corporate forced basically all the smaller independent dealers to quit or sell out to the bigger mega dealerships. I had a really good local dealer that was forced to sell out to a different dealership with 18 different locations. They really went downhill after that.
Same thing happened here where I live in south Central Pennsylvania. John Deere cut the dealership off some years ago maybe 10 years, and consolidated. 4 dealerships in the area have been gobbled up by a large East Coast dealer. They seem a bit disconnected and their service is really lacking and that's putting it nicely. It's one of the reasons I'm thinking about leaving green and looking at Kubota.
I agree completely.
I have been looking for a smaller cab size tractor, with a relatively higher horsepower for frame size.
I started out with John Deere 3 series. When I found out they are made of plastic, have a Yanmar engine, and harder to to diy maintenance. Also overall not impressed with capacitys.
I dropped John Deere.
Started looking at Yanmar, Kubota, and Kioti.
Especially in the compact/subcompact market, a business model bypassing traditional dealers, free open source service manuals, and an online parts warehouse that delivers to your door in days instead of weeks or months might be the thing.
I would buy that.
At the end of the day; you get what you pay for. I just rebuilt the engine on a 1990s JD 955 and JD had all of the internal engine parts in stock and honestly pretty reasonably priced. Good luck getting parts for half those other brands in 30 years.
glad for your experience, but kinda sounds like you didn't watch the video. kubota already has models with unavailable parts from the 90's. and these some of these other brands have had a US market for 30-50 years already. likewise, my JD dealer never has parts in stock. they are available for order, but not in stock.
John Deere compact tractors almost seem cheaper built with higher prices than some of the other brands over the last 20 years. Global economy has changed alot of things for better or worse. I personally think Kioti is one of the better value brands as far as best bang for the buck. They are a global company, parts won't be an issue as they continue to grow and expand into the US.
Like mentioned…I think you have to go deeper in those revenues. JD figure also includes ALL their construction equipment and mowers as well which makes up the largest % of their revenue. Have absolutely loved my TYM and Kioti. Still have a large green mower, but have to have parts ordered everytime I need something. Never wait with my TYM/Kioti dealer here.
Brand A reports so many dealers, Brand B reports some many dealers, Brand C reports so many dealers. Problem is, some dealers may sell 2, 3, 4 or more different brands and so the numbers are severely skewed as one single dealer may be counted as 4 dealers when you add up the numbers reported by individual brands.
I would be interested in seeing the same video but with the numbers of just tractors below a certain size. Say 60hp. Think of the money Kubota sees from excavators and skid steers same as jd sees with big ag tractors and combines. I think kioti and Ls etc have a bigger piece of the pie if you look at it that way. Great video
Would be cool, but unsure how to find that specific data
@@GoodWorksTractors yea that would be tough to find. I guess if you could find units sold and average prices. I’m in western Washington and it seems that I see far more new kioti, Ls and mahindra than jd and Kubota. I went kioti and it’s been a good experience.
Interesting stuff, thanks. "In God I trust, all others bring data" BTW, I didn't know that about my phone calculator either by turning it horizontal. It 'is' a Scientific calculator like your Brother said.
My local Runnings has Summit tractors out front
Love your videos. Now, is this your response to Neil’s video about compact tractor companies?? I watch Neal’s videos also.
Good job. Thank you
In my area all the dealers within a 50 -75 miles radius of me. Are now the same name. I have lived in this area 34 years. These dealers were all different names/owners' operators.
Deere dealers have been consolidating for years. Small dealers are being bought up by large dealers.
Seems like it
That was intentional, JD had a specific vision for dealerships
Summit is sold by Home Depot and Tractor Supply co. in my area. Never have seen anything for tractors at Tractor Supply, not even an implement. And what does HD know about tractors!
I believe the JD loss of dealerships is a deceptive number. I think it's due to consolidation. Are all the Ag-pro's considered 1 dealer or over 100 dealers. Recently in Ohio, FIC combined 5-6 dealers under 1 name.
As far as the number of dealerships there are, I'm wondering if it has to do with in Michigan where I have lived for 60 years farming has drastically went down hill it seems especially in the past 15 or 20 years. Also the number of people farming has went down. If I'm a farmer and I already have all the equipment, if I buy your farm doesn't mean I need more tractors. So the number of small farms each with their own equipment has went drastically down to.
Yeah, probably does have an impact!
Nice One Do you have Iseki branded compacts in the USA they make the MF compacts Thanks
My Mahindra 1526 was made by Mitsubishi. My understanding is that it was the Cub Cadet model before Mahindra acquired that line. That holds true for other Cub Cadet models as well, at least ones made by Mitsubishi.
Also as an FYI, my Mahindra dealer also sells Kioti & Massey.
Not sure if those numbers are for new units or also include used. Our local Massey dealer does a lot more than 2 a month. They have 2 auctions a year and there are at least 30-40 used tractors each time they sell. So they must be selling a bunch of new ones. Also, some dealers sell multiple brands, so they may count as multiple dealers in the count, but only have one front side business with multiple brands.
If you want some insight on why tractor dealerships are decreasing just google how much farm ground is disappearing. The loss of farm acreage is FAR more concerning than how many dealers of green or orange tractors there are.
CNH Industrial is the parent company for Case IH and New Holland and both have a contract with LS
Something to note on John Deere losing dealerships. There is more and more consolidation with one company owning multiple locations. Sometimes this is a consolidation effort if there are dealerships too close together. Case IH the same thing. For example, one of the companies that I worked for back in 2011 was a John Deere dealership with four locations. Today they have 28 locations. But one company.
Great and informative vid
I think if you were to overlay changes in farming from the 1970 to now you will find I direct correlation between the size of farms and the size of equipment used back then vs today.
Which in turn I believe helps explain the reduction in dealer locations.
Less farmers, larger machines covering much larger farming operations equaling less customers and less need for dealers to be located in every little rural town throughout the farming communities around the country.
Courtney when you look at it the small family farms are disappearing, and are being replaced with corporate farms. What that leaves is the hobby farm and people who want big toys. Like your self you want quality and you don’t want to spend a lot of time traveling to buy parts or accessories.
Good point!
Some of the dealers manufacturers claim are dealers are just mom and pop lawn mower shops. Not to separate them, but they don’t really fall into what anyone would think of when they think of a “dealer.”
I live in upstate NY , All our local JD dealers are owned by one dealer with many locations .I would not consider this as a loss of dealerships 😊
Each location is called a dealership.
Different price points, Different options in various markets. And brand name loyalties. 😉
The John Deere dealership closing im guessing is mostly due to the farms closing over the same time period. And John Deere forcing out the small dealerships, either be part of their cooperation or nothing. I know both Deere dealerships around here are changed to "United ag and co " or something like that. They used to have different names .
This might be a better question to ask Tractor Mike, but let's say a person leases a tractor instead of a cash deal, Can that sque the numbers of a sale because the guy that has the tractor is not the true owner of this machine. This is the same with rental cars. A person do,s not own the car a leasing company owns it until sold to a second owner? Your thoughts
I used to have two JD dealers within 30 minutes of me. Both gone now. There is one Kubota dealer that close. I can get MF (Agco) parts 20 minutes away. Made my decision easy.
I believe John Deere started to copy the Caterpillar dealership model wanting fewer dealership owners with larger footprints They did so by putting expensive demands on smaller dealerships so in many cases the smaller dealership would sell to another dealership owner with the hunger and financial wherewithal go with the program
40 years ago, I had 7 John Deere dealers within a 50 mile radius. Today I have 2. And worst of all is that neither of the two have a meaningful repair facility. They do basic maintenance, but bring in technicians from other areas for major repair work. Not a good trend. Then again, agriculture has declined in my area so I suspect there is a correlation here.
That isn't a good trend at all. You're right though, probably a correlation there.
@@GoodWorksTractors If I was 30 years younger, I’d buy a service truck and try to get arrangements with a couple of the lesser brands and provide mobile service for them. I suspect one could make a decent living doing this if you didn’t mind a little travel.
As you mention, data can be twisted and manipulated in many different ways. One thing to remember is that the big measure is sales dollars. The advantage Kubota and especially Deere have is that their dealerships sell many more tractors than just compact tractors. While fewer in number, the large tractors sell for much more money at much more margin dollars. The compact tractor has become a commodity with so much competition and the margin is small. If you need a 100hp tractor, you have much less choice.
Exactly the reason to not buy Deere for a compact tractor. Ask any Deere owner over the last 10 years their experience getting a tractor serviced. Its garbage, they have 2 month wait times to fix something simple. Dealerships prioritize larger commercial tractors. They have a lawsuit because they dont release their manuals. Tractor owners can turn a wrench but have to wait for the dealer to service because thats in the contract for them to sell the tractors. The market share has gone from 80% down to 65% in the last few years for Deere and Kubota and will continue to go down.
The reason the number of actual Dealers has fallen over the years is the manufacturers have shut down the small mom and pop family dealerships. They've done this essentially by requiring dealers to buy or plan more machines/equipment. The small dealer's couldn't afford this concept and closed.
The reason the Deere and Kubota annual revenue is so high is that they make more types/models of equipment. Both sell a really large number of just engines to other manufacturers. Deere even sells marine engines and transmissions. Deere also has the largest trademarked products being clothes, tools, toys, housewares, windmills, insurance, etc....
Hard to know for sure how many of the dealers counted by Deere are dealer locations or ownership groups. At that number, knowing how much consolidation that has gone on, it almost has to be locations. CNH( CaseIH and New Holland) and Agco(Massey Ferguson), along with Deere and Kubota probably makes up 90-95% of compact dealers. Not only that, but almost every CNH dealer also sells Kubota, just like Messick’s does. And Doosan is the owner of both Daedong and Bobcat, so Bobcat isn’t likely paying for Kioti tractors to white label a tractor in the traditional sense.
No, Doosan does not own Daedong.
A lot of false information right there sir
I know my local badboy dealer in NH is selling at least a tractor a week, nevermind mowers and snow blowers
Kubota Tech here. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but when it comes to service parts (like annual maintenance) I've never experienced the parts department having to order anything. It's already in stock.
I hope to all that watch the video or read this comment that you can do your own service. As a tech, we all hate doing them. Yes, they can help when you have 3 or 4 big jobs going and you are waiting on parts to arrive (aka engine rebuilds, hydraulic pump replacements, clutch replacement). The services can keep you busy.
The only reason I see taking your equipment in for a service is to have someone who is wholly familiar be able to put eyes on the unit and see if you have any other issues that may cause you problems.
From a poll I did awhile back, something like 80% of folks do their own regular service.
From experience of dealing with John Deere, Kubota, Kioti, and other dealers in my area and other parts of the country for the last decade, dealers have had to order in parts very frequently for all OEM's. There's no way on earth that you guys have all the parts in stock. In fact, I'd say over the last year, 80% of the parts we've needed from dealers regardless of brand had to be ordered and weren't on the shelf.
@@GoodWorksTractors and this is why I specified service parts. As in both air filters, both fuel filters, both hydraulic filters (for hst), oil filter and the oils to go with it.
No we don't order that stuff, because it stays stocked.
Can you give examples of the type of parts you are referring to?
0:12-0:17
"I don't know the last time I went to my Kubota or JD dealer to have something serviced, where they didn't have to order in parts. I mean they ALL have to order in parts."
This is the section I was referring to. Idk what you implied, but I infer it to mean your regular service, aka filters and the like.
Is my interpretation correct? Or did you mean something else?
@@HeirloomFarmstead no I don’t mean filters and oil
@@GoodWorksTractors I'm glad we clarified that then, just for future reference, that is what having it serviced means.
And there isn't a dealer in the world that will stock random things that are just going to sit on a shelf for years for the random passerby that just so happens to need that part. They stock common parts that are (a) wear items or (b) the system they use is telling them that some part has a tendency to move because it uses past data year over year to predict what is needed.
It's a business, no need in stocking parts that will just sit on your books.
Anyway, glad we could clear things up. I do enjoy most of your videos so please don't think I'm just some internet troll.
AUG 4 2021
TYM has announced that it has recorded 461.8 billion won in sales, 37 billion won in operating profit, and 28.2 billion won in net profit for the first half of this year. This is a 28.7 percent increase in sales, 74.4 percent increasing in operating profit, and 94.4 percent increase in net profit compared to the same period last year.
Competition among manufacturers is good for consumers.
Yanmar has made JD small engines (whatever the definition of small is).
I have a Kioti, but use yanmar filters where possible because theyre less expensive. About ready to change my hydro oil. For 3 years, Ive used unbranded oils, but believe branded oils are sure better in cold weather (at least to the extent of engine sound to a nonmechanic).
Ag stuff is all mixed up like a 100# ball of baling wire which why its really hard to get trustworthy data.
Prob ably, the software debacle will get worse, and will ultimately invade the compact tractor market .
Maybe we should all just buy the old big iron and restore it as best as possible. People like me like to use a tractor just not fix it. We make the best guess we can avoiding JD & Kubota since there was negative experience. BUT, I also had a bad dealer repair experience with my Kioti too!
Coutney, alot of us trully rely on industry people like you and tractor mike to get a little satisfaction out of avery expensive hobby.
Same, with labor shortages and inexperienced mechanics, I think with most things you are better off doing it yourself. I took my Kioti in for a mid mount PTO install and it was a disastrous experience. they put their new guy on it I can almost guarantee and parts were installed wrong, had to haul it back and forth 2 hour drive each way to the dealer twice to get it all sorted out. The only reason I took it to the dealer was they supposedly knew what they were doing and I did not. I could have figured it out.
In my opinion, you should not do business with the owner of a company who does not know of landscape calculator mode to access the billion number.
Haha, fair point! 😂
The tractors and products are more complicated, so a bigger service dept ( better trained, specialized skills) is needed. So small dealers lose the ability to do complex machines. Mom and pop dealers do not work anymore.
For the most part, it doesn't seem like compact tractors have gotten that much more complex? Regen systems I suppose? Definitely a different story with the big Ag equipment.
Good video as always, but I would like to point out a few things.
John Deere’s revenues include an insane amount of service, which basically has come at the end of a gun because of the extortion from John Deere to rape their customers.
The number of tractor dealers in particular someone like John Deere has declined because the American farm and the American farmer has declined. Look at how many farmers we had in 1950 compared to today. Small and medium size farms have been in decline, family farms have been a decline for decades. And it’s not for the reasons most people think. Most of the decline in farming especially at the small and local level is because of government policies. The whole left-wing we need to protect you food safety, bullshit. This is where we get into Joel Salatin territory and the safe act, etc. if Covid had a silver lining, it’s that we recognized how fragile our food system is now that most people get their food from for major corporations, rather than small local and regional farms. 50 years ago most of our food came within a relatively small radius of our home. Today it could be coming from anywhere in rather than being healthy and natural. It’s hyper processed.
Finally, I think it’s important to note that there are probably millions of people certainly hundreds of thousands of people that own a John Deere built by Yanmar. Most of John Deere’s compact and subcompact tractors for an extensive period of time were built by Yanmar and I think they still build the diesel motors used by many John Deere tractors, as well as many other brands. Yanmar is also a major player in the marine diesel market.
I have been doing a lot of research on tractors, and I’m planning to buy a small tractor within the next 18 months and I’m probably going to get a Summit or a Yanmar. But I’m also going to need something bigger and that will definitely be a Yanmar.
When you look at experience & history, the track record and quality, the features, especially when factoring in cost, I think Yanmar is the clear winter.
I'm guessing the reason you can't find good data on massey ferguson is due to the different levels of dealerships. For example our one local dealership was a Heston dealer but Agco rebranded all Heston equipment as massey so now that dealership is technically a massey dealership but they do not sell massey tractors