@@mavor101 am not talking about Tram or A-10 all of these need to be 10.0 to 10.3 with su-25 am talking about other 9.0 and 9.3 jets that does not even have 10 G missiles or flares that's not fair
I got to fight this thing while I was in the italian sabre with 50 cals. Literally emptied the entire ammo reserve into him and hit every shot but he still managed to survive.
They already separate the sim/RB/AB BRs. The air and ground _matchmakers_ are already separated. There's literally no reason they can't separate air and ground BRs. Take this up to the a10's BR in air battles, and give people a reason to bother playing 8.7 again.
The reason the Su-25 is still 9.7 is due to Gaijin using the same aircraft BR for both ground and air modes. Strike aircraft performance varys significantly between ground and air modes. In Ground RB, the Su-25 is in a perfect place, as its laser guidance has a really bad FoV and zoom and lacks proper target tracking, and the Su-25 lacks any TV guided munitions. In air RB, however, it is very undertierd and faces many jets without flares that are slower than it. This is also the same reason jets that are stuck in a BR that's too high in Air RB but is good in Ground RB, like the Tornado IDS/GR.1 and A-7E. The A-7E, for example, is very slow and only carries a pair of AIM-9Gs, which sucks in 10.7. For Ground RB, however, it can carry either 6 AGM-62A ERs or 5 AGM-62A ERs and a FLIR pod, those loadout selections make it extremely potent in Ground RB but have little to no meaning in Air RB. Same goes for the Tornado IDS/GR.1, its acceleration and climb rate in combination with its FLIR pod and up to 4 GBUs make it extremely potent in Ground RB.
I don't think the BR's need to be separate, Strike aircraft just need to be set at a proper BR for Strike aircraft. The proper ground RB BR is also the proper Air RB BR.
Don’t we have bigger problems? For example the JA37C at 11.0 ? Having to fight F16s and MIG-29 while having missiles that we don’t even have to talk about
I want to know why its still as tanky as it is, or, why the A-10 isn't I've seen them _shrug off_ dedicated AAM's, meanwhile the A-10 takes 1 bullet to the tail and it simply falls off I could deal with the tanky SU-25, if there was at least parody to the Thunderbolt II
@@whiskersthecatboi like I said, I'd be ok with the SU-25's level of tankyness, if the A-10 even had a 1/10th of the amount of redundant systems and tankyness the SU-25 has (The redundant systems are what make the A-10 survivable against ground fire and MANPADS) because right now, the control cables just make for a larger target than the SU-25's simply because there are more for someone to hit with no upside, that being redundancy. Its about parody, either bring the damage model of the A-10 up, or bring the SU's down.
I've noticed that Gaijin prioritizes increasing BRs of other nations wayyy before Russia. I've been playing WT for 5 years, I came from World of Tanks originally. Russian bias was a huge claim in WoT for a long time but I never believed it, so when I heard it in WT I just rolled my eyes. I didn't believe it but I'm starting to come around to it. There's just too much funny business around Russian vehicles in this game, too much to ignore. You notice it when playing against Russia, but especially when playing AS Russia! The funny thing is that it makes you think that Russian tech couldn't handle the BR increase, making it seem like NATO stuff is just THAT MUCH BETTER. Not quite the Russian pride they should be going for :P
i have a question for people i use the su25k because i am a horrible person but when i bomb i’ve realized whenever i bring 8x250kg bombs i get half the rewards i normally get per base rather to when i only bring 4 which is enough for one base can anyone explain this?
Dont use It as a Bomber, Just bring the 2 r60 and the 4 cannons, use the missiles at planes that dont have Flares, and later the game, If you can groundpound
If you want to use the Su-25K as a bomber, bring 8x500Kg bombs. 4 500Kg bombs is enough to take out a full base, giving you the opprotunity to kill two bases by yourself! Also, when you bomb a base you don't get the full reward but only a large precent of it, you get the rest of the reward when you land on the airfield. This is a feature added a long while back to counter zombers in air SB.
@@ofekk213 oh my apologies i didn’t mean 250kg i meant 500 i have about 400 or so games in it atm i know the play style of it can you elaborate more on that feature you mentioned? so if i bomb 2 bases it doesn’t give me the full reward until i land on the airfield? or is this only in simulator battles
@@randomportuguese473 yes i know my normal setup is 2xR60MK 2xGsh-23 pods and 24x100kg bombs because they give more rp destroying a base compared to 4x500kg
4:46 IRL the A-10 has the manuverrbilty but the Frogfoot has the speed and they both have almost the same surrviblity with the A-10 in the lead... So yeah Gaijin please nerf.
Can't stand flying the "OP Attackers" in air RB. Speed is life and lets you dictate the terms of engagement. When you're slow, you're dependent on your opponents making mistakes. The planes with countermeasures can honestly deal with the A-10/A6E/Su-25 just fine, and the ones without flares usually get killed by a faster plane before those attackers can even get within range anyway.
Except flying against these in a 1950s Korean war jet(Mig-15/17/Sabers) is the most common thing you see in those planes. It really ruins the fun facing all aspect missiles in a plane that doesn't have flares, is slower than the SU-25, and doesn't have missiles.
Never once seen a saber on the opposing team. Not. Once. If they're there, they're dead long before they get within r60 range. Launched by something faster with weaker missiles. I see Harriers for days though, and plenty of A-5 and F-5Cs. It was never an Su-25 or A-10 problem. The problem existed long before those attackers were added. It was always just a matter planes with no countermeasures facing off the paradigm change of IR missiles, and su-25/a-10 nerfs won't do a lick to fix that.
Honestly I don't think the Mirage need to go up in br. Rn it's kinda over performing due to the match maker still being flooded with f5-c trying to bomb bases. Literally every single game I played their where at least 5 of them bombing instead of fighting other aircraft
@@rnrpizzza Mirage is a delta wing you lose so much speed in turns , and even if your wep your engine your increasing your turn time. Verses the F-5C and just hold you in place only really needing to avoid the noise of the mirage. So in about 2 1/2 turns mirage will be out of energy .
@@rnrpizzza Also the amount of players that try to drop bombs in it before they get air superiority is crazy. Even if Meta for the F-5C is back to air to air combat, Mirage can easily be overwhelmed by just a half decent pilot
One of the reasons might be that gaijin is still making money with it and that gaijin doesent want to shift the sales to other plane yet but when it happens they might even make it 10.3
Better question to ask Gaijn is, WHY A10A Early is still 10.0 and not drop to 9.7 like when was released, is impossible to kill anything at 10.0 ground battles, AA or enemy jets get me instatly, have good air to ground missles and guided bombs that no chance to use them, is clear scam to sell this aircraft that cant do anything because need fight MUCH faster planes or get killed by ground AA just after spawn from 8-10km range.
A-10 Early still can carry LONG RANGE fire and forget missiles. If you are in AA range with A10, it is skill issue and you deserve getting shot down. Su-25 doesn't have that luxury it has to be in 4km to even spot things to engage at, which puts in range of all SPAAs. And that's why it is 9.7. A patitent A-10 player is immune to all SPAA because you can loft AGM65Ds up to 20kms. Granted it is less effective due to time passing even if you loft it correctly. Su-25 doesn't get a chance to get close to the battlefield even if there is a single Lvkv alive.
Those “long range missiles” are useless against Russian mbts there there over performing era on the roofs. Pluss the su25 can tank like 4 spaa missiles drop its load and fly back and rearm. I wish I wasn’t joking.
What would change?? It is in 9.7 but like the J35a we always fall with 10.3...Otherwise you also have to move the A10 prenium and put it in 10.3 and the A6E too... Not to mention the fact that we often fall with the Tornado in Br 10.3, I know it because I always fall with the Tornado when I play with the F5C. As a reminder, the Tornado is 11.3 🙄We could also talk about the expectation we now have when we want to play with the F16 or the Mig 29... 5min on average to find a realistic battle !!!!! It's crap, especially since in the end we still play with 11.3 like the F4J and even sometimes the F4E who is in 11.
It would change a lot for the 8.7s and 9.0s that dont have the offensive or defensive capabilitys to keep up with it. It would make those planes more fun again. For now you can just stay on the base and J out in most 8.7/9.0 planes and save the repair costs. That would be a better taktic in 90% of the uptiered games where you can face those
9.7 full line up is intended to be a strong BR for USSR tech tree, Gaijin intended to make this, since they can't win the war in reality so they want to win in game.
They won't change it's BR because it pairs too well with the TURMS at 9.7 (another vehicle that should be a higher BR but isn't). Gaijin is just thinking long term money grabbing when they next put vehicle packs on sale.
Su-25 is just with R-60Ms are, Unreliable. that's it. though i support the idea that all All-aspect carrier planes only met countermeasure carrying planes. I hate the idea this plane met F-100D, Super Mystere, & MiG-19s Pull the BR harder, Like back in the April Fools day, 14.0
I think the SU-25 should be the same tier as the Harrier GR.1, similar premium, Harrier missiles are way shorter range and get easily countered by flares, Harrier missiles arent all aspect. The SU-25 has better bomb and rocket options. The harrier is slightly faster, but the SU has a slighter better turn, they have similar ammo counts, with the SU having a fight RoF, but more importantly the SU carrys countermeasures, whereas the Harrier GR1 doesnt, and thats the harriers biggest downfall Either the Harrier should come back down (This is a terrible option), or the SU goes up, it will perform fine still!
The Su-25 hasn't moved because the Russian 10.0-10.3 doesn't exist, you have the T-72B(1989) and T-80B but that 2 vehicles isn't a line up, all the support vehicles are either 9.0-9.7 or 10.7-11.3
Multiple undertiered russian jets? Wow who knew lol - All aspect missiles, a gun that rivals the Vulcan and 256 flares at 9.7? What is the problem comrade?
@@hemendraravi4787 That's too ridiculous but the su-25 is even worse due to the smaller size and better energy retention and mobility. The Holy Grail of ridiculousness is the trio of the Su-25,A-10 and A6E Tram
its probably because its smart munitions suck for ground rb, i mean come on can you even compare the a10's smart bombs and atgm's to what the su-25 has? For every 10 deaths to an a10, i have 1 to a su25, its laughable. edit: like dude seriously? ive been on the receiving end of 1-2 a10's wiping entire ground teams because they could lob smart weapons out of range of sub 10.0 br spaa, ive yet to have a su-25 do that to me. Both my gepards and somehow sometimes my ozelot does just fine against any su-25's while i need my flakrad to deal with any semi non retarded a10 pilot.
@@LewisB3217 No it can't go 10.3 It is barely useful in ground RB as is. It is objectively worse than A-10 in every aspect except speed. It needs to be at less than 4km range in ground RB to even thing about seeing a target let alone guide one in (despite the missile having 10km range without the shkval screen zoom or tracking it is basically useless). And at that range every single spaa can easily counter it. It is realistically grounded if it gets uptiered to 10.3 because flarakpz 1 and alike can delete it before it can think about approaching the battlefield. But is it oppresive in air RB, sure. However still most players play ground RB so it is logical to balance the aircraft (especially CAS aircraft) with Ground RB in mind. Unless Gaijin splits BR for air RB and ground RB for aircraft (even if only for strike aircraft and bombers) it will never go to 10.0 or 10.3.
All aspect attackers are sucm of the earth. fact that thoose fuggs are facing F-86-F45/F2 is disgracefull as they cannot compete in any role or even avoid or run away. They need to be increased in Br to the point that they do not face single fighter that do not have speed advantage over it. p.s. Or recive no sl and rp after single match a day
@Lewis Bush I'd say 9.7 for ground RB due to the non-existent 10.0 lineups, the air RB should be 10.3/7 Like the T-72B(1989) and T-80B exist but near exclusive get upteired to 10.7 and 11.0
This plane is overpowered and should be higher in BR. Gaijins breaks trade-off logic that come through all BRs - bombers and designated attackers sholdn't have simillar killing abilities and capabilities as fighters on the same with them BR. Their strenght lays in superiour destroying ground targets and this should be enough. So, in other words, for being so effective in ground striking capabilities but lacklaster in flying abilities those things (like SU-25 and A-10) shoudn't got artificial easy-in lower BR-life. I know that exception are fighter-bombers, but they lacks something every time, so trade-off still maintains.
When you talk of the matchmaking it's true you might have 5 to 10% downtier when you/me play the su25. But when you play an 8.7 vehicle it's more 25 to 30% uptier to 9.7 because of the amount of player playing it. And i am not talking about the flare less aircraft at 9.0 and 9.3 that face it more than half of games. And that's how gaijin makes money and sales premium vehicles. Btw I know you are a top tier player mainly, but you should be carefull when you talk about balancing. We can clearly see that you only/mainly play high tier. (What I mean is when i hear you talk and I am pretty sure that you never play the 8.7/9.0 planes that get really fucked by high tier missiles in uptier).
@@LewisB3217 nope not in grb , especially when its rival a10 gets aim9L and mavericks both are better than what su25 gets , more flares , better gun, better dogfighting capability. only if we got the su25T then it could be 10.7 or even 11.0
@@LewisB3217 It can't. It can barely be useful in ground RB as is. It needs to get in about 4 km range to attack ground targets due to lack of Shkval tv. At 10.3 it would be impossible to fly due to radar SPAA being able to fire at ranges of 6-8 to 12km. It already faces them in uptiers and it clearly shows you can't fly it in an uptier if there is a FlaRakPz 1 or similar. A-10 has Aim-65s which can be fired at outside of even the ranges of best SPAA in game, granted it is harder to do but Su-25 has no options of engagement in 10.3. Being 10.3 would guarantee it being useless in ground RB (which still is the main mode people play) because it would face SPAA with greater range 100% of the time. My point is to bring BR separation for strike aircraft so that you can make it 10.3 in Air RB and 9.7 in Ground RB. Which would also benefit aircraft like Tornado which are fine in ground RB but useless in air RB.
@@hemendraravi4787 A-10 belongs at 10.3, SU-25 at 10.0. The Su-25 also has much better turn, acceleration and speed compared to A-10. One has flight performance, the other has CAS weapons.
My theory is that it won't go up to 10.0/10.3 because it's simply worse in Ground then the A-10. The SU-25 relies mostly on dumb munitions like bombs and the S-25O while the A-10 can use 6 Mavericks plus TV guided bombs
@@hemendraravi4787 Yeah, that would be 10.7 that's for sure. 4x aams (2x r73s) 16 vikhrs, SEAD missiles, rear aspect DIRCM, night sight, 10km range. That would be too oppressive any other br. I am assuming we will get that version of Su-25 when we get DIRCM, SEAD and/or ECM capabilities to aircraft, possibly in 1-2 major patches.
@@Frozander we already have DIRCM n ECM (ka52 n mig21) ecm is not modelled atm. but i dont think ecm is coming for a while. maps are too small anyways. but i think anti radiation missiles are coming next . cus one of the devs said that they were working/testing anti radiation missiles on apex predator dev stream (russian dev bvvd)
@@shikikanaz4624 SU25 have R60m in real, and when A10 have aim9 L lets be honest, they are better then R60M not to mention 20mm gatling gun in the nose of A10. Both planes are perfectly at their BR
@@MyMatK I'd still say give them 'worse' missiles imo, having them irl doesn't warrant other vehicles that can do almost nothing against them facing them
It's 9.7 because the "feature" it has for ground RB are the smart munitions but they are incredibly hard to use in GRB, I think it should stay at 9.7 for GRB.
@@mikewizz1895 Ok so If I play 10.0 Russia and only die to the A-10 when he only uses his gun? Does that mean its OP? Its a premium ofc it gets spammed and is the best CAS Russia has at 9.7 the Mi-24 is garbage besides the R-60Ms being an annoying gimmick, Shturm missiles are god awful.
@@LewisB3217 Smart munition Payload is the same as the A-10 except the missiles aren't Fire and forget, you have to stay on target in a tiny display that has no zoom being unable to maneuver because the limit on movement, They need to fix the damage model and flight model on the Su-25 and its fine at 9.7 GRB
@@LewisB3217 The A-10 is 10x better at 10.0 so if the Su-25 should go up they should as well. The Su-25 actually takes a decent amount of skill to use. It's not a bad plane, but it should stay at 9.7
Just here to remind the local cry babies that you need only 1 flare per r60. "Boo hoo i have no flares" how about you start to avoid fighting the su25 like ppl have been avoiding the a10 with unflareable missiles for so long?
idk, Russian bias on some premiums (SU25 and SU11 yes) but most other russian stuff is in an okay place. Personally I see it as US and Russian favouritism, with US being favoured for new aircraft when some over nations get shafted. Germany, UK, Japan and Im gonna say France because they dont have any jet at 11.7. Hopefully Gaijin will chill out on adding new american jets for a while now though
@@jordanspence7789 you forgot the 2s38, that shit broken as fuck and is the bane of all helis, not to mention stupidly survivable cause it's 80% empty space and fuel tank at front eats shells
This thing is insane. I can beat even F-5Cs in dogfights without much sweat. It could easily be 10.3 or 10.7. Both this and the A-10 have to get bumped up or limited from being downtiered.
it will remain at 9.7 no matter what cus of its cas capability.(compared to a10/a6). so the only solution is to separate air/ground br
Not to mention that it's 60ms cannot compete with all of the AIM-9L spam that starts for the US team at BR 10.0
it's cancer at 9.7
10.0 will be good
skill issue if you it's bad
@@BasTSLA Oh yea, because it's totally equivalent to the TRAM, which has 4x AIM-9L.
Lol bro y u make such good jokes?? :D
@@mavor101 am not talking about Tram or A-10 all of these need to be 10.0 to 10.3 with su-25
am talking about other 9.0 and 9.3 jets that does not even have 10 G missiles or flares that's not fair
It's fine in 10.0 games and would be fine in 11.0 games.. The frogfoot is literally used in Ukraine today, the A10 would be suicide in Ukraine.
I got to fight this thing while I was in the italian sabre with 50 cals. Literally emptied the entire ammo reserve into him and hit every shot but he still managed to survive.
They already separate the sim/RB/AB BRs. The air and ground _matchmakers_ are already separated. There's literally no reason they can't separate air and ground BRs.
Take this up to the a10's BR in air battles, and give people a reason to bother playing 8.7 again.
Exactly!!!
The reason the Su-25 is still 9.7 is due to Gaijin using the same aircraft BR for both ground and air modes. Strike aircraft performance varys significantly between ground and air modes.
In Ground RB, the Su-25 is in a perfect place, as its laser guidance has a really bad FoV and zoom and lacks proper target tracking, and the Su-25 lacks any TV guided munitions. In air RB, however, it is very undertierd and faces many jets without flares that are slower than it.
This is also the same reason jets that are stuck in a BR that's too high in Air RB but is good in Ground RB, like the Tornado IDS/GR.1 and A-7E. The A-7E, for example, is very slow and only carries a pair of AIM-9Gs, which sucks in 10.7. For Ground RB, however, it can carry either 6 AGM-62A ERs or 5 AGM-62A ERs and a FLIR pod, those loadout selections make it extremely potent in Ground RB but have little to no meaning in Air RB. Same goes for the Tornado IDS/GR.1, its acceleration and climb rate in combination with its FLIR pod and up to 4 GBUs make it extremely potent in Ground RB.
This. Ground and Air BR for aircraft needs to be seperated
I don't think the BR's need to be separate, Strike aircraft just need to be set at a proper BR for Strike aircraft. The proper ground RB BR is also the proper Air RB BR.
@@mfern45 they're at the proper br for strike aircraft already and that's exactly why they're shit in air rb
@@mfern45 so A10 and su25 should go to about 11.3? They're the best cas in game
I wish the Tornado IDS had laser guided bombs lol
It would be nice to see this thing pushed up with the TRAM being pushed up as well, would love to play 8.7 jets again.
Yeah the TRAM is truly a goddamn crime at 10.0.
Don’t we have bigger problems? For example the JA37C at 11.0 ? Having to fight F16s and MIG-29 while having missiles that we don’t even have to talk about
"SU-25 STILL at 9.7?? WHY?"
Answer: You are only surprised because you haven't looked at the TRAM, which has 4x 9Ls at BR 10.0.
And guided bombs with thermal sight, so you won't risk flying close to the ground
@@Niko_rj Yup - by far the best plane for it's BR in the game now imo. Supreme CAS and able to exploit how OP the AIM-9Ls are all at BR 10.0.
Remember when gaijin wanted to put it 9.3 ??
4:01 less missiles than the a-10? Do you mean less than a-10 late because a-10 early (premium version) has only two aam missiles
Separation of Air and Ground br is gonna be the next big thing
I want to know why its still as tanky as it is, or, why the A-10 isn't
I've seen them _shrug off_ dedicated AAM's, meanwhile the A-10 takes 1 bullet to the tail and it simply falls off
I could deal with the tanky SU-25, if there was at least parody to the Thunderbolt II
There are videos of the Su-25 taking SPAA missiles and surviving irl idk if the A-10 has videos of the same but the Sukhoi definitely does
@@whiskersthecatboi like I said, I'd be ok with the SU-25's level of tankyness, if the A-10 even had a 1/10th of the amount of redundant systems and tankyness the SU-25 has (The redundant systems are what make the A-10 survivable against ground fire and MANPADS) because right now, the control cables just make for a larger target than the SU-25's simply because there are more for someone to hit with no upside, that being redundancy. Its about parody, either bring the damage model of the A-10 up, or bring the SU's down.
@@sicsempertyrannis6541 can't have russian weapons being inferior though, supreme commander shoygu wouldn't be very happy about that
I've noticed that Gaijin prioritizes increasing BRs of other nations wayyy before Russia.
I've been playing WT for 5 years, I came from World of Tanks originally. Russian bias was a huge claim in WoT for a long time but I never believed it, so when I heard it in WT I just rolled my eyes. I didn't believe it but I'm starting to come around to it. There's just too much funny business around Russian vehicles in this game, too much to ignore. You notice it when playing against Russia, but especially when playing AS Russia!
The funny thing is that it makes you think that Russian tech couldn't handle the BR increase, making it seem like NATO stuff is just THAT MUCH BETTER. Not quite the Russian pride they should be going for :P
i have a question for people
i use the su25k because i am a horrible person
but when i bomb
i’ve realized whenever i bring 8x250kg bombs i get half the rewards i normally get per base rather to when i only bring 4 which is enough for one base
can anyone explain this?
Dont use It as a Bomber, Just bring the 2 r60 and the 4 cannons, use the missiles at planes that dont have Flares, and later the game, If you can groundpound
If you want to use the Su-25K as a bomber, bring 8x500Kg bombs. 4 500Kg bombs is enough to take out a full base, giving you the opprotunity to kill two bases by yourself!
Also, when you bomb a base you don't get the full reward but only a large precent of it, you get the rest of the reward when you land on the airfield. This is a feature added a long while back to counter zombers in air SB.
@@ofekk213 oh my apologies i didn’t mean 250kg i meant 500
i have about 400 or so games in it atm
i know the play style of it
can you elaborate more on that feature you mentioned? so if i bomb 2 bases it doesn’t give me the full reward until i land on the airfield? or is this only in simulator battles
@@randomportuguese473 yes i know
my normal setup is 2xR60MK 2xGsh-23 pods and 24x100kg bombs because they give more rp destroying a base compared to 4x500kg
Because this thing is still selling, once a mig23ML sale happens it will go up in my opinion
4:46 IRL the A-10 has the manuverrbilty but the Frogfoot has the speed and they both have almost the same surrviblity with the A-10 in the lead... So yeah Gaijin please nerf.
The guy was an idiot and broke off early while broadsiding himself
Can't stand flying the "OP Attackers" in air RB. Speed is life and lets you dictate the terms of engagement. When you're slow, you're dependent on your opponents making mistakes. The planes with countermeasures can honestly deal with the A-10/A6E/Su-25 just fine, and the ones without flares usually get killed by a faster plane before those attackers can even get within range anyway.
Except flying against these in a 1950s Korean war jet(Mig-15/17/Sabers) is the most common thing you see in those planes. It really ruins the fun facing all aspect missiles in a plane that doesn't have flares, is slower than the SU-25, and doesn't have missiles.
Never once seen a saber on the opposing team. Not. Once. If they're there, they're dead long before they get within r60 range. Launched by something faster with weaker missiles. I see Harriers for days though, and plenty of A-5 and F-5Cs. It was never an Su-25 or A-10 problem. The problem existed long before those attackers were added. It was always just a matter planes with no countermeasures facing off the paradigm change of IR missiles, and su-25/a-10 nerfs won't do a lick to fix that.
Honestly I don't think the Mirage need to go up in br. Rn it's kinda over performing due to the match maker still being flooded with f5-c trying to bomb bases. Literally every single game I played their where at least 5 of them bombing instead of fighting other aircraft
im sorry but the M2000 is a superior plane yeah the F5C’s pads stats but it needs to be moved up. it’s a sealclub fest in it.
@@rnrpizzza Mirage is a delta wing you lose so much speed in turns , and even if your wep your engine your increasing your turn time. Verses the F-5C and just hold you in place only really needing to avoid the noise of the mirage. So in about 2 1/2 turns mirage will be out of energy .
@@rnrpizzza Also the amount of players that try to drop bombs in it before they get air superiority is crazy. Even if Meta for the F-5C is back to air to air combat, Mirage can easily be overwhelmed by just a half decent pilot
I play german and i died to su25 5 matches in a row this thing dominates ground rb
For air rb I like to run min fuel which basically turns it into a fighter, even with the gun pods
Why is still 9.7? Because is russian ofc. If this plane was italian the br would be 13.0 and the repair cost 100k
I think it’s got pretty crazy CAS and a ton of countermeasures but I haven’t played it I just get killed by jt
This thing became my favourite premium really fast lol.
A6E Tram is second and mig23ml is 3rd (coz of all the f14/f16)
One of the reasons might be that gaijin is still making money with it and that gaijin doesent want to shift the sales to other plane yet but when it happens they might even make it 10.3
Better question to ask Gaijn is, WHY A10A Early is still 10.0 and not drop to 9.7 like when was released, is impossible to kill anything at 10.0 ground battles, AA or enemy jets get me instatly, have good air to ground missles and guided bombs that no chance to use them, is clear scam to sell this aircraft that cant do anything because need fight MUCH faster planes or get killed by ground AA just after spawn from 8-10km range.
A-10 Early still can carry LONG RANGE fire and forget missiles. If you are in AA range with A10, it is skill issue and you deserve getting shot down. Su-25 doesn't have that luxury it has to be in 4km to even spot things to engage at, which puts in range of all SPAAs. And that's why it is 9.7. A patitent A-10 player is immune to all SPAA because you can loft AGM65Ds up to 20kms. Granted it is less effective due to time passing even if you loft it correctly. Su-25 doesn't get a chance to get close to the battlefield even if there is a single Lvkv alive.
Skill fucking issue. AIM-9Ls should make it 10.3 minimum.
Lol I kill tanks with the gun all the time in Ground. I fire my mavericks then do low level passes over the enemy spawn. Just don't be a monkey.
Those “long range missiles” are useless against Russian mbts there there over performing era on the roofs. Pluss the su25 can tank like 4 spaa missiles drop its load and fly back and rearm. I wish I wasn’t joking.
I've cleared teams sometimes with the a10 at 11.0, just learn to side climb
try SU22UM3K give your opinion on 11.0 without radar and mach one!
It shouldn't move up. Just give R60s instead.
R60 are still broken for 9.7 and shouldn't be there (looking at yak38 with 4) I'd say give it the r13
in a uptier i got like a ace with the gunpods n guns it was cool
Your driver shows you sometimes red things my driver makes my all screen Red
Mirage 2000c is 11.3 because it has less good missiles than all other top end jets. It's that simple.
Because Money. Change my mind.
I've watched su 25s eat aim9js I leave them alone at this point
What would change?? It is in 9.7 but like the J35a we always fall with 10.3...Otherwise you also have to move the A10 prenium and put it in 10.3 and the A6E too... Not to mention the fact that we often fall with the Tornado in Br 10.3, I know it because I always fall with the Tornado when I play with the F5C. As a reminder, the Tornado is 11.3 🙄We could also talk about the expectation we now have when we want to play with the F16 or the Mig 29... 5min on average to find a realistic battle !!!!! It's crap, especially since in the end we still play with 11.3 like the F4J and even sometimes the F4E who is in 11.
Su-25 prem and tech tree variants should be 10.0, TRAM should be 10.3.
It would change a lot for the 8.7s and 9.0s that dont have the offensive or defensive capabilitys to keep up with it. It would make those planes more fun again. For now you can just stay on the base and J out in most 8.7/9.0 planes and save the repair costs. That would be a better taktic in 90% of the uptiered games where you can face those
9.7 full line up is intended to be a strong BR for USSR tech tree, Gaijin intended to make this, since they can't win the war in reality so they want to win in game.
cope more, usa still lose after 20 years in afghanistan fighting people who use ww2, cold war weapon lol
as you say its work vs ground not air so vs ground in 10.3 it will play vs 11.3 so good luck vs ito-90 will kill you from respawn easy
Because any variant of the r60 is honestly nothing compared to aim9ls
They won't change it's BR because it pairs too well with the TURMS at 9.7 (another vehicle that should be a higher BR but isn't). Gaijin is just thinking long term money grabbing when they next put vehicle packs on sale.
The turms is fine where it is, what really grinds my gears is su25 and especially 2s38 still at 9.7
Make it minimum 10.0. Tops it should be 10.3.
Stop your whining, Russia is best 💪🇷🇺
Su-25 is just with R-60Ms are, Unreliable.
that's it.
though i support the idea that all All-aspect carrier planes only met countermeasure carrying planes.
I hate the idea this plane met F-100D, Super Mystere, & MiG-19s
Pull the BR harder, Like back in the April Fools day, 14.0
Su-25 tem uma resistência insana mesmo, tem uns vídeos atuais da ucrânia em que eles levam até 2 míssies e conseguem voltar a base
Por isso que quero comprar esse avião, tô juntando dinheiro para os descontos de julho, vale MT a pena.
Its kinda simple, worth loadout :) A-10 > Su-25 about loadout, but su-25 is more fun and faster..
I think the SU-25 should be the same tier as the Harrier GR.1, similar premium, Harrier missiles are way shorter range and get easily countered by flares, Harrier missiles arent all aspect. The SU-25 has better bomb and rocket options. The harrier is slightly faster, but the SU has a slighter better turn, they have similar ammo counts, with the SU having a fight RoF, but more importantly the SU carrys countermeasures, whereas the Harrier GR1 doesnt, and thats the harriers biggest downfall
Either the Harrier should come back down (This is a terrible option), or the SU goes up, it will perform fine still!
The su-27
@@spartanx9293 mb, I meant SU25 xD
The answer is not because it's a Russian vehicle and Russia vehicles in this game never get a nerf?
Or because it's a premium....
so is the a-10
or cuz its poor air to ground guided capability compared to the warthog?
@@MqncoMarepoto does not matter for AirRB
@@MqncoMarepoto lol don't talk to me about ground ability
For me CAS in ground battle is a mistake
@@M4_Soppi_2 well too bad in real life cas is very important and war thuner is trying to make it like that
I really dont like r60s i think that guns are easier to use
It's 9.7 coz GROUND RB
The Su-25 hasn't moved because the Russian 10.0-10.3 doesn't exist, you have the T-72B(1989) and T-80B but that 2 vehicles isn't a line up, all the support vehicles are either 9.0-9.7 or 10.7-11.3
Yeah they would if they moved the other 2 9.7 ground premiums up to 10.3 where they belong.
@Hondanoarr but that just makes 10.3 a premium hell hole
@@_S.T.A.L.K.E.R._ like the excessive helis, squadron vehicles, and other premiums don't already do that
And balancing off of lineups available is dumb af
@Willie Wilson bro, it's a ground attack aircraft, this thing is made for Cas and is reliant on the line up arrond it
Multiple undertiered russian jets? Wow who knew lol - All aspect missiles, a gun that rivals the Vulcan and 256 flares at 9.7? What is the problem comrade?
guy talks like the a10 was not 9.7 for like 2 months
@@hemendraravi4787 That's too ridiculous but the su-25 is even worse due to the smaller size and better energy retention and mobility. The Holy Grail of ridiculousness is the trio of the Su-25,A-10 and A6E Tram
its probably because its smart munitions suck for ground rb, i mean come on can you even compare the a10's smart bombs and atgm's to what the su-25 has? For every 10 deaths to an a10, i have 1 to a su25, its laughable.
edit: like dude seriously? ive been on the receiving end of 1-2 a10's wiping entire ground teams because they could lob smart weapons out of range of sub 10.0 br spaa, ive yet to have a su-25 do that to me. Both my gepards and somehow sometimes my ozelot does just fine against any su-25's while i need my flakrad to deal with any semi non retarded a10 pilot.
@@LewisB3217 No it can't go 10.3 It is barely useful in ground RB as is. It is objectively worse than A-10 in every aspect except speed. It needs to be at less than 4km range in ground RB to even thing about seeing a target let alone guide one in (despite the missile having 10km range without the shkval screen zoom or tracking it is basically useless). And at that range every single spaa can easily counter it. It is realistically grounded if it gets uptiered to 10.3 because flarakpz 1 and alike can delete it before it can think about approaching the battlefield.
But is it oppresive in air RB, sure. However still most players play ground RB so it is logical to balance the aircraft (especially CAS aircraft) with Ground RB in mind. Unless Gaijin splits BR for air RB and ground RB for aircraft (even if only for strike aircraft and bombers) it will never go to 10.0 or 10.3.
Cus Russian
All aspect attackers are sucm of the earth. fact that thoose fuggs are facing F-86-F45/F2 is disgracefull as they cannot compete in any role or even avoid or run away. They need to be increased in Br to the point that they do not face single fighter that do not have speed advantage over it.
p.s. Or recive no sl and rp after single match a day
SU-25T will surely me 10.3+ I see no reason making the SU-25 higher, its a bit dominating in ARB, but perfectly balanced in GRB.
su25t can be 10.7 easily. thermals + 16xvikhrs.
@@hemendraravi4787 no, 12.0!
@Lewis Bush I'd say 9.7 for ground RB due to the non-existent 10.0 lineups, the air RB should be 10.3/7
Like the T-72B(1989) and T-80B exist but near exclusive get upteired to 10.7 and 11.0
This plane is overpowered and should be higher in BR. Gaijins breaks trade-off logic that come through all BRs - bombers and designated attackers sholdn't have simillar killing abilities and capabilities as fighters on the same with them BR. Their strenght lays in superiour destroying ground targets and this should be enough. So, in other words, for being so effective in ground striking capabilities but lacklaster in flying abilities those things (like SU-25 and A-10) shoudn't got artificial easy-in lower BR-life.
I know that exception are fighter-bombers, but they lacks something every time, so trade-off still maintains.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
When you talk of the matchmaking it's true you might have 5 to 10% downtier when you/me play the su25.
But when you play an 8.7 vehicle it's more 25 to 30% uptier to 9.7 because of the amount of player playing it. And i am not talking about the flare less aircraft at 9.0 and 9.3 that face it more than half of games.
And that's how gaijin makes money and sales premium vehicles.
Btw I know you are a top tier player mainly, but you should be carefull when you talk about balancing. We can clearly see that you only/mainly play high tier.
(What I mean is when i hear you talk and I am pretty sure that you never play the 8.7/9.0 planes that get really fucked by high tier missiles in uptier).
uptiering is this is a bad idea. taking away r60mk's and giving it something worse would make more sense imo
@@LewisB3217 nope not in grb , especially when its rival a10 gets aim9L and mavericks both are better than what su25 gets , more flares , better gun, better dogfighting capability. only if we got the su25T then it could be 10.7 or even 11.0
@@LewisB3217 No it wouldn't you have no valid points but go on continue talking like a 12 year old.
@@LewisB3217 It can't. It can barely be useful in ground RB as is. It needs to get in about 4 km range to attack ground targets due to lack of Shkval tv. At 10.3 it would be impossible to fly due to radar SPAA being able to fire at ranges of 6-8 to 12km. It already faces them in uptiers and it clearly shows you can't fly it in an uptier if there is a FlaRakPz 1 or similar. A-10 has Aim-65s which can be fired at outside of even the ranges of best SPAA in game, granted it is harder to do but Su-25 has no options of engagement in 10.3. Being 10.3 would guarantee it being useless in ground RB (which still is the main mode people play) because it would face SPAA with greater range 100% of the time.
My point is to bring BR separation for strike aircraft so that you can make it 10.3 in Air RB and 9.7 in Ground RB. Which would also benefit aircraft like Tornado which are fine in ground RB but useless in air RB.
@@hemendraravi4787 A-10 belongs at 10.3, SU-25 at 10.0. The Su-25 also has much better turn, acceleration and speed compared to A-10. One has flight performance, the other has CAS weapons.
@@v3es473 a10 beats su25 if its a full on dogfight. but su25 can extend and come from top.
My theory is that it won't go up to 10.0/10.3 because it's simply worse in Ground then the A-10.
The SU-25 relies mostly on dumb munitions like bombs and the S-25O while the A-10 can use 6 Mavericks plus TV guided bombs
only if the tt one was su25T it would have helped a bit n it would be 10.7 or 11.0 16x vikhrs
@@hemendraravi4787 Yeah, that would be 10.7 that's for sure. 4x aams (2x r73s) 16 vikhrs, SEAD missiles, rear aspect DIRCM, night sight, 10km range. That would be too oppressive any other br. I am assuming we will get that version of Su-25 when we get DIRCM, SEAD and/or ECM capabilities to aircraft, possibly in 1-2 major patches.
@@Frozander we already have DIRCM n ECM (ka52 n mig21) ecm is not modelled atm. but i dont think ecm is coming for a while. maps are too small anyways. but i think anti radiation missiles are coming next . cus one of the devs said that they were working/testing anti radiation missiles on apex predator dev stream (russian dev bvvd)
First view hell yea
STOP SHITTING THIS PLANE ITS PERFECT WHERE IT IS
Not with r60m's if it was to stay give it 'worse' missiles like r13
@@shikikanaz4624 SU25 have R60m in real, and when A10 have aim9 L lets be honest, they are better then R60M not to mention 20mm gatling gun in the nose of A10. Both planes are perfectly at their BR
@@MyMatK I'd still say give them 'worse' missiles imo, having them irl doesn't warrant other vehicles that can do almost nothing against them facing them
It needs to be at 10.0 but not allowed to uptier to 11.00
LOL in air battle I don't think... He's very good in 9.7.
It's 9.7 because the "feature" it has for ground RB are the smart munitions but they are incredibly hard to use in GRB, I think it should stay at 9.7 for GRB.
no they aren't lmao it's basically the only plane i die to at 9.0-10.7 in tanks
@@mikewizz1895 compared to a10 thats nothing. just says ur team has no one with a spaa.
@@mikewizz1895 Ok so If I play 10.0 Russia and only die to the A-10 when he only uses his gun? Does that mean its OP? Its a premium ofc it gets spammed and is the best CAS Russia has at 9.7 the Mi-24 is garbage besides the R-60Ms being an annoying gimmick, Shturm missiles are god awful.
@@LewisB3217 Smart munition Payload is the same as the A-10 except the missiles aren't Fire and forget, you have to stay on target in a tiny display that has no zoom being unable to maneuver because the limit on movement, They need to fix the damage model and flight model on the Su-25 and its fine at 9.7 GRB
@@LewisB3217 The A-10 is 10x better at 10.0 so if the Su-25 should go up they should as well. The Su-25 actually takes a decent amount of skill to use. It's not a bad plane, but it should stay at 9.7
This and A10 need to go 11.0 or get worst missiles
lmao you're either joking or a noob
Okay that's too high 10.3 is the limit I'm willing to go bump it up to 11.00 and it will be impossible to grind its munitions
@@purplenurp5590 AIM9L are too much to face 9.0 planes
lol shut up
I rther they go to 11 because it funner to use attackers as fighters when in the proper context but if it's equal then it just seal clubbing.
10.0 would be br of kill for it because of its close air Support
Just here to remind the local cry babies that you need only 1 flare per r60.
"Boo hoo i have no flares" how about you start to avoid fighting the su25 like ppl have been avoiding the a10 with unflareable missiles for so long?
Sometimes it's unavoidable
a10a should be 9.7 and su25k should be 10.0
First
nvm
russian bias is undebatable. (but i like su25 quite a lot due to all other russian premiums are trash)
idk, Russian bias on some premiums (SU25 and SU11 yes) but most other russian stuff is in an okay place. Personally I see it as US and Russian favouritism, with US being favoured for new aircraft when some over nations get shafted. Germany, UK, Japan and Im gonna say France because they dont have any jet at 11.7.
Hopefully Gaijin will chill out on adding new american jets for a while now though
@@jordanspence7789 mirage 2000 & 2000D (best cas in game) has left the chat
i bet you didn't see a-6tram with 4 aim9l at 10.0 lol
@@jordanspence7789 you forgot the 2s38, that shit broken as fuck and is the bane of all helis, not to mention stupidly survivable cause it's 80% empty space and fuel tank at front eats shells
@@shikikanaz4624 I quit playing ground long before that thing was added, which is why I didnt mention it
This thing is insane. I can beat even F-5Cs in dogfights without much sweat. It could easily be 10.3 or 10.7. Both this and the A-10 have to get bumped up or limited from being downtiered.
yall youtubers stay crying
If su 25 should be 10.0 then the a10 should be 10.3 or 10.7
No but stay mad wallet boy
@@ml-fishing1341 Dumb player that doesn't know the SU-25 is also a tech tree plane alert wee ooo wee ooo.
what
Not mad dont fly it anymore but a10 is better then a su25 esp the missles
@@vassowned7768 Yup.
Moneybro. tram a10 and su should all be .3 or .7 higher