It's always good when those who instruct on youtube give some warnings. Most people looking at these videos have no experience what-so-ever, then they decide they will give things a go but are ignorant to even some of the obvious dangers. Thanks nice post.
I have seen some of your automotive projects on Sunday morning car shows and I have to tell you we are ALL impressed with your work. Thanks for the info.
I just built a coffee can forge. 2 layers of kaowool and some furnace cement..used a mapp gas torch for the flame. I heated a 7/8 inch diameter bar of steel, it was the end of a bull point chisel for a rotary hammer. It got it to a high orange/white heat in a very short time. I was very impressed by the heat. I only want to make some small woodworking tools and some hinges and other hardware items so I think this forge will serve me well.
Great tips, Thanks about the galvanized information. I had no ideal the fumes could kill you. I am just starting out and I was going to go with concrete in a metal paint bucket. I will make a few different forges with this KAO material and see how it does. Thank you.
I was a welder for years and welded tons of galvanized and brass (it has zinc which is what galvanize is) and all you have to do is simply place a fan where it will pull the fumes away from you. You can also just grind the galvanize off which is what we did unless we were just brazing galvanized sheet metal. Galvanize is simply zinc which you need 100 milligrams of a day in your diet. Under an electric arc the zinc vaporizes especially in brass and makes a lot of smoke and bubbles in your weld. I have welded zinc with a torch and it just melts as I was using zinc rod as well and again I just had a big box fan about three feet away from me that pulled the smoke away. The actual fumes if not breathed in too much isn't that harmful, it is the hairy particles that come off that are deadly. I'm in my 60's and I never got sick from welding galvanized as I was always careful, but I did breath some of the fumes a few times and it didn't hurt me. I was more afraid of welding parts that had oil and paint on them to be honest. I always used a fan to pull the fumes away no matter what I welded unless the parts were clean.
You can buy these weeders with the attachment for the big propane tanks already as part of it. I used to have one for my landscape gardening business. Big tank and all. They were also a wee bit more powerful than what you have there!
up at my deer lease we were cooking on an old smoker and the bottom of the firebox caved. all we had was some duct and we put it in then spent a couple of hours burning the galvanized shit off. after it stoped smoking it was safe to use. nobody got sick after eating.
I have been poisened by zink,its called "metal fume fever"you get a massive headache and flu like symptomes,lack of breath.I was given a particle mask to cut zink coated parts with oxy-acetylene,the parts were double dipped and after 2-3hrs cutting couldnt get my breath anymore. I was in hostpital 7 days 4 on intensive care on steroids to calm my lungs. I am a coded welder for my sins and do not weld any thing that has been zink plated,even when ground off with a grinder, zink impregnates the steel,i only need a little sniff of the muck and i get a headache and the sweats.From what i know the only protection is isolated air supply,at the time i was given a particle mask and zink gas paticles are so small that there wasnt a particle mask that could keep it out(now things are different i believe there are masks that can keep it out)But treat with caution and respect!! you are a long time dead!!
I was a member of Anvilfire when Paw Paw died. It came as a shock to all of us. He was smarter than that. It is still a mystery why he would do something like that. I still think of him nearly every time I fire up my forge.
WOW PAW-PAW going info I have been a sheet metal man Doing rain gutters and hawg valleys growing up and never knew anything about this my dad never said anything about it either thanks for the info on Metal Poisoning and about the dangers of zinc.
I am no expert, but I believe the generic term for the KAOWOOL material you are using is just Stone Wool, or Rock Wool. It has that name because it is a natural stone or rock material that is blown into strands (silica if I am not mistaken). It goes by various brand names, it is used in residential insulation in some applications (though fiberglass is much more popular). Just do a search for 'rockwool insulation' and you will find all the various different types. Great vid, good advice, thanks!
@tails2fan from what I understand he was a gentle soul and didn't deserve to go out that way, he was a good teacher and a man very involved in helping people learn more about blacksmithing.
@431pvuf it's true that lots of sulphur is undesirable in steel - it's introduced there by coke-fired smelting process. however, coal has carbon too, and some imagine that their steel will absorb it and "improve". this just doesn't happen in a forging operation. to affect any sort of chemical absorption, steel has to sit in the forge for a long, long time (this is how blister steel used to be made). coal was used by smiths for many years to produce superb work that endures to this day.
@431pvuf sure. pig iron is cast iron, and to make it forgeable the carbon content has to be brought way down. bessemer process was used early on. before that, forgeable iron was produced by reduction smelting, usually with charcoal. (one reason britain doesn't have as many trees as it used to). however, it's not a problem using coal to heat up steel for forging. there is simply no time for any significant absorption to happen under normal forging practice. i prefer gas, though.
that's a nice idea for a forge, but I've had issues in the past with small tanks freezing up, so I don't use them anymore. Might work in warmer climates though, I'm in wisconsin and I do most of my metalcasting in the late fall/winter/early spring.
i don't know if you live near a harbor freight store but i bought one there for $20 and it comes set up to run on the larger "grill" propane tanks! they sell it as a "weed burner". hope this helps!
@J0Gu7 that is a perfect size tank! and has a heavy wall try to get two inches of wool in there, usually the stuff comes an inch thick so double it up, make sure to use the cement to line it with. good luck
@modernblacksmith Thanks brother, I had to check out your channel and subscribe. I really appreciate the help and I know where to go the next time I have a question. I am sure after I watch all your videos I will have a few questions. I have rebuilt a few go karts, but now I am building one from scratch. Metal work has always fascinated me and creating something, from nothing, is a great feeling. Thanks again for the help.
In the realm of scientific journals and academia the general nomenclature (name) for the fibrous ceramic insulation used in furnaces, forges, kilns, incinerators, and reactors is "High Temperature Insulation Wool" (HTIW). However, I'm guessing that if you went to a home improvement or building supply store and asked for "High Temperature Insulation Wool" you would get really weird looks from the employees. Wikipedia: High temperature insulation wool
coal here is 200 a ton, but hard to find available propane is about 12 bucks a fill for a 20lb tank, or 17 for straight exchange, just saying. be nice to be able to forge inside in the winter though, can use coal indoors here without a $5000. chimney and vent system , against codes, sucks but my reality, been try to build a gas system without spending 500 to build one, 24"x36"x 1" thick piece of kaowool was 80 bucks along lol guess im working in the cold again this year. good video. thanks
Sir I'm in Afghanistan right now. I want to build a forge out here. I wanted to know if you know how to make fire brick from clay or sand or how ever you make it from raw materials. Thanks
Joshua can you get 'Plaster of Paris"? I saw a guy on here make a small forge in a metal coffee can with 1/2 and 1/2 plaster of paris and sand and then approx. the same amount of water as this mix. It sets up quick. Cheap way to make a forge for knife-making.
@wolfman7123 Having a regulator and gauge on your tank will let you see what pressure you are at. Depending on the forge size you end up with, 5 psi to light it, 7-10 is all you need to to heat.
getting a Keen interest in Blacksmithing... One thing i'm wondering is, the Pro's and Con's of Coal vs Propane I've seen excellent videos on making first time basic forges (Including this one) and trying now to decide which to go with once i get everything together.. Or maybe go with both? Thanks very much for your videos, i find them very very entriguing and can't wait to give this a go
Fuel cost? LP is much less expensive here in CA than coal. We need to truck int in Xcountry, the shipping costs more than the coal, then you have all the clean air regulations to deal with. Our club buys a semi load of coal at a time and still the shipping kills the price. If it were not for the shop needing to be "period correct" LP is cleaner and less expensive. I knew PawPaw, darn shame. He knew better.
@clancy6969 it was a keiths but not light. it was an experimental beer they had for a year, keths white I think it was called can't remember but it was good, better than the regular keiths, but they stopped making it for some reason
@hockeyluver93 you need to just do it, the school is youtube and the internet! some blacksmiths will take aprentices but that's not so common anymore. there are courses but they're not worth it in my opinion.
lots of metals are toxic when vaporized and inhaled, but in particular, zinc, cadmium, chromium, and magnesium. Zinc is a component in galvanized steel and brass.
@TheNootles actually, EPA doesn't give a shit if a blacksmith burns coal. not that i understand why anyone would -- coke burns much cleaner, and you don't have to mess around with the water can and all that crap. as to tree huggers -- i am a professional smith, and i not only hug trees, i kiss the damn things in gratitude, too. without trees, there is no oxygen to burn your coal or coke or propane, not to mention the desirability of breathing.
Great vid! Any suggestions on diameter size of forge. I have a small helium tank for balloons (freon tank size) can I use that? Just thinking of making a forge to make some knives.
@TravelerWhereof have not made any heavy swords......YET!!! I would want to have a proper power hammer to make garden tools. it's just too much work to make by hand
lol i weld on galvanized metal everyday no protection lol its what i get pay to do...... but what it does is it burns and the smoke turns solid in your lungs....the smoke comes up like regular smoke and then turns into something like a spider web
i'm in the process of getting into blacksmithing and i have an anvil, a TON of steel, about twenty hammers, a blower, and a brake drum for a small brake drum forge but i can't seem to find any 2" threaded black iron pipe or coal! would anybody know where i could get some?
Really interested in the vids man, i turn 17 next week and i think i'm going to get into this a little bit with my dad when he gets back from overseas, how easy do you think it would be to make a forge?
@modernblacksmith: what if you had access to unlimited free natural gas, and you wanted to use the propane torch stick without the propane tank (of course)? would the torch work, or would it just be easier to use a different setup? Please let me know what you would do?
@pcblah may make you feel better but doesn't make you less poisoned....just avoid it and if there is no choice wear a respirator and think about those around you as well...a paycheck ain't worth dying for!
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W1D5 | Fall | เก็บแต้มของจริง คือวันนี้](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EciIAlCXg5k/mqdefault.jpg)
It's always good when those who instruct on youtube give some warnings. Most people looking at these videos have no experience what-so-ever, then they decide they will give things a go but are ignorant to even some of the obvious dangers. Thanks nice post.
I have seen some of your automotive projects on Sunday morning car shows and I have to tell you we are ALL impressed with your work. Thanks for the info.
OMG, I have one of these in the garage for weeding! How cool!
I'll get the kids blacksmithing this weekend!
Thank you so much for the help!
I just built a coffee can forge. 2 layers of kaowool and some furnace cement..used a mapp gas torch for the flame.
I heated a 7/8 inch diameter bar of steel, it was the end of a bull point chisel for a rotary hammer.
It got it to a high orange/white heat in a very short time. I was very impressed by the heat.
I only want to make some small woodworking tools and some hinges and other hardware items so I think this forge will serve me well.
You, sir, are a communicator! Thanks.
Thanks, me and a buddy of mine are trying to set up a small shop to tinker in. This helps alot.
Great tips, Thanks about the galvanized information. I had no ideal the fumes could kill you. I am just starting out and I was going to go with concrete in a metal paint bucket. I will make a few different forges with this KAO material and see how it does. Thank you.
I was a welder for years and welded tons of galvanized and brass (it has zinc which is what galvanize is) and all you have to do is simply place a fan where it will pull the fumes away from you. You can also just grind the galvanize off which is what we did unless we were just brazing galvanized sheet metal. Galvanize is simply zinc which you need 100 milligrams of a day in your diet. Under an electric arc the zinc vaporizes especially in brass and makes a lot of smoke and bubbles in your weld. I have welded zinc with a torch and it just melts as I was using zinc rod as well and again I just had a big box fan about three feet away from me that pulled the smoke away. The actual fumes if not breathed in too much isn't that harmful, it is the hairy particles that come off that are deadly. I'm in my 60's and I never got sick from welding galvanized as I was always careful, but I did breath some of the fumes a few times and it didn't hurt me. I was more afraid of welding parts that had oil and paint on them to be honest. I always used a fan to pull the fumes away no matter what I welded unless the parts were clean.
Thank you for all your videos. I find them interesting and educational.
RIP: Jim "Paw Paw" Wilson, even in death hes teaching us what to do and not to do... a true Blacksmith he was....
RIP Paw Paw ....I used to follow his demos and stuff on iforge....
You can buy these weeders with the attachment for the big propane tanks already as part of it. I used to have one for my landscape gardening business. Big tank and all. They were also a wee bit more powerful than what you have there!
Thank you Sir! Your vid's are always very informative and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to educate others. Your good people. Subscribed.
up at my deer lease we were cooking on an old smoker and the bottom of the firebox caved. all we had was some duct and we put it in then spent a couple of hours burning the galvanized shit off. after it stoped smoking it was safe to use. nobody got sick after eating.
I have been poisened by zink,its called "metal fume fever"you get a massive headache and flu like symptomes,lack of breath.I was given a particle mask to cut zink coated parts with oxy-acetylene,the parts were double dipped and after 2-3hrs cutting couldnt get my breath anymore.
I was in hostpital 7 days 4 on intensive care on steroids to calm my lungs.
I am a coded welder for my sins and do not weld any thing that has been zink plated,even when ground off with a grinder, zink impregnates the steel,i only need a little sniff of the muck and i get a headache and the sweats.From what i know the only protection is isolated air supply,at the time i was given a particle mask and zink gas paticles are so small that there wasnt a particle mask that could keep it out(now things are different i believe there are masks that can keep it out)But treat with caution and respect!! you are a long time dead!!
djyul Just dip the piece of galvanized metal you are working on into vinegar for a day, the rinse and thats it. The zinc is gone.
I was a member of Anvilfire when Paw Paw died. It came as a shock to all of us. He was smarter than that. It is still a mystery why he would do something like that. I still think of him nearly every time I fire up my forge.
WOW PAW-PAW going info I have been a sheet metal man Doing rain gutters and hawg valleys growing up and never knew anything about this my dad never said anything about it either thanks for the info on Metal Poisoning and about the dangers of zinc.
I am no expert, but I believe the generic term for the KAOWOOL material you are using is just Stone Wool, or Rock Wool. It has that name because it is a natural stone or rock material that is blown into strands (silica if I am not mistaken). It goes by various brand names, it is used in residential insulation in some applications (though fiberglass is much more popular). Just do a search for 'rockwool insulation' and you will find all the various different types.
Great vid, good advice, thanks!
@tails2fan from what I understand he was a gentle soul and didn't deserve to go out that way, he was a good teacher and a man very involved in helping people learn more about blacksmithing.
You can file or grind off the galvanized coating from steel. It is a relatively thin coating.
@431pvuf it's true that lots of sulphur is undesirable in steel - it's introduced there by coke-fired smelting process. however, coal has carbon too, and some imagine that their steel will absorb it and "improve". this just doesn't happen in a forging operation. to affect any sort of chemical absorption, steel has to sit in the forge for a long, long time (this is how blister steel used to be made). coal was used by smiths for many years to produce superb work that endures to this day.
as far as i know ceramic by its self is not cancer causing. ceramic is usually coated with a glaze before firing which may or may not be toxic .
Hey thanks for the info, and Merry Christmas.
@431pvuf sure. pig iron is cast iron, and to make it forgeable the carbon content has to be brought way down. bessemer process was used early on. before that, forgeable iron was produced by reduction smelting, usually with charcoal. (one reason britain doesn't have as many trees as it used to). however, it's not a problem using coal to heat up steel for forging. there is simply no time for any significant absorption to happen under normal forging practice. i prefer gas, though.
i haven't made a forge yet but i wanted to throw this tip in there, if you get a wire wheel on like a grind stone you can rub that galvanized shit off
that's a nice idea for a forge, but I've had issues in the past with small tanks freezing up, so I don't use them anymore. Might work in warmer climates though, I'm in wisconsin and I do most of my metalcasting in the late fall/winter/early spring.
i don't know if you live near a harbor freight store but i bought one there for $20 and it comes set up to run on the larger "grill" propane tanks! they sell it as a "weed burner". hope this helps!
you know , i ticked Like only 2 min into this vid!.
very entertaining.
thanks
Good useful video. And thanks for telling me about galvanized steel ! I'v been heating the bolts up. Not anymore!! Subed you bro....
Actually it is kaolin which is what porcelain is made from, Although kaolin consists of alumina silicate so your on the right track with silica.
great vid and good advice thanks for sharing
@J0Gu7 that is a perfect size tank! and has a heavy wall try to get two inches of wool in there, usually the stuff comes an inch thick so double it up, make sure to use the cement to line it with. good luck
@modernblacksmith Thanks brother, I had to check out your channel and subscribe. I really appreciate the help and I know where to go the next time I have a question. I am sure after I watch all your videos I will have a few questions. I have rebuilt a few go karts, but now I am building one from scratch. Metal work has always fascinated me and creating something, from nothing, is a great feeling. Thanks again for the help.
@BlacksmithBroadcast use furnace cement over firebricks, or search for the recipe to make refractory out of peralite.
In 2005 steel was up to 225 a ton. Its about 125 today.
yeah it should, i would start of with a coffee tin first, they work well.
In the realm of scientific journals and academia the general nomenclature (name) for the fibrous ceramic insulation used in furnaces, forges, kilns, incinerators, and reactors is "High Temperature Insulation Wool" (HTIW). However, I'm guessing that if you went to a home improvement or building supply store and asked for "High Temperature Insulation Wool" you would get really weird looks from the employees.
Wikipedia: High temperature insulation wool
hey, cool dungarees you're wearing, I'm going to make a pair with heavy leather facing to wear in my smithy.....thanks.....
coal here is 200 a ton, but hard to find available propane is about 12 bucks a fill for a 20lb tank, or 17 for straight exchange, just saying. be nice to be able to forge inside in the winter though, can use coal indoors here without a $5000. chimney and vent system , against codes, sucks but my reality, been try to build a gas system without spending 500 to build one, 24"x36"x 1" thick piece of kaowool was 80 bucks along lol guess im working in the cold again this year. good video. thanks
in england, we sell scrap for £300 a tonne, which is something like 450-$500
@razblack yes, you can work with galvanized materials as long as you wear a welding respirator
AHHA! Been looking for something really simple so i could start some forging, thanks!
nice, so easy even I can make one. thanks for the post Brother.....
@oaney not really sure just know it mostly as refractory wool it's used generally to line furnace and boiler burn chambers
@captaincake5 I only use a coal forge myself but I know few people have access to coal....thanks for the tip!
@soul22eater22 depends on what you do, I don't do anything but ornamental work, so it doesn't matter much. for knife or tool making propane is better.
Sir I'm in Afghanistan right now. I want to build a forge out here. I wanted to know if you know how to make fire brick from clay or sand or how ever you make it from raw materials. Thanks
Joshua can you get 'Plaster of Paris"? I saw a guy on here make a small forge in a metal coffee can with 1/2 and 1/2 plaster of paris and sand and then approx. the same amount of water as this mix. It sets up quick. Cheap way to make a forge for knife-making.
I believe that galvanized puts off a cyanide analog of some sort and that why it kills so quickly.
@wolfman7123 Having a regulator and gauge on your tank will let you see what pressure you are at. Depending on the forge size you end up with, 5 psi to light it, 7-10 is all you need to to heat.
also instead of the wool stuff you can get plaster and mix it with sand it works just as well
180 bucks does indeed buy a lot of beer
getting a Keen interest in Blacksmithing...
One thing i'm wondering is, the Pro's and Con's of Coal vs Propane
I've seen excellent videos on making first time basic forges (Including this one) and trying now to decide which to go with once i get everything together.. Or maybe go with both?
Thanks very much for your videos, i find them very very entriguing and can't wait to give this a go
OMG you sound like the guy that does "mind of goardan freeman... the best "can do" attatude ever ^^
your the coolest guy on youtube!
@darkarchon777 no it should be rounded up on all sides quite round so the corners don't dent your work...
Dang this is ten years old!!
Fuel cost?
LP is much less expensive here in CA than coal. We need to truck int in Xcountry, the shipping costs more than the coal, then you have all the clean air regulations to deal with. Our club buys a semi load of coal at a time and still the shipping kills the price. If it were not for the shop needing to be "period correct" LP is cleaner and less expensive. I knew PawPaw, darn shame. He knew better.
@clancy6969 it was a keiths but not light. it was an experimental beer they had for a year, keths white I think it was called can't remember but it was good, better than the regular keiths, but they stopped making it for some reason
@jcodym13 not on a propane forge. but on a wood coal or charcoal forge yes...
You had me at hello.....
this is just like building a table top glory hole
You can just refill the small bottles from your 20 pound grill tank too.
I've had it a couple times, first time was the worst I breathed that shit all day and I was some sick!!
@ImRamro regular concrete can explode when heated use a refractory mix.
This is the first video I've watch that did not insulate with plaster and sand.
@hockeyluver93 you need to just do it, the school is youtube and the internet! some blacksmiths will take aprentices but that's not so common anymore. there are courses but they're not worth it in my opinion.
lots of metals are toxic when vaporized and inhaled, but in particular, zinc, cadmium, chromium, and magnesium. Zinc is a component in galvanized steel and brass.
@luckyscootboy not if it's aluminum, stainless is the best thing you could use
I read up on Paw paw, it said he got double pneumonia from burning the galvanized stuff
@TheNootles actually, EPA doesn't give a shit if a blacksmith burns coal. not that i understand why anyone would -- coke burns much cleaner, and you don't have to mess around with the water can and all that crap. as to tree huggers -- i am a professional smith, and i not only hug trees, i kiss the damn things in gratitude, too. without trees, there is no oxygen to burn your coal or coke or propane, not to mention the desirability of breathing.
thanks for vid and i subscribed
try it, or if that does not work try canola oil or peanut oil. Cheers
@modernblacksmith thanks that helps me alot.
Great vid! Any suggestions on diameter size of forge. I have a small helium tank for balloons (freon tank size) can I use that? Just thinking of making a forge to make some knives.
Interesting. Also btw I like your work area, is it by chance like a work shed? Seems nice cozy and rustic work area, great set up.
@TravelerWhereof have not made any heavy swords......YET!!! I would want to have a proper power hammer to make garden tools. it's just too much work to make by hand
@usernameuneeded you are correct.
this is too much work.. can i just use hot sauce?
I would suggest some Texas Pete or Frank's red hot for aluminum and Ghost pepper sauce for steel.
lol i weld on galvanized metal everyday no protection lol its what i get pay to do...... but what it does is it burns and the smoke turns solid in your lungs....the smoke comes up like regular smoke and then turns into something like a spider web
gonna do that with some fire bricks. wish me luck!
DUDE! thats sweet!!!
Alot of that steel went into Chinese armor.
The attachment to the Coleman propane tank, where did you get or find that?
I saw one of those weed killers and it was called "weed burner" LOL.
i'm in the process of getting into blacksmithing and i have an anvil, a TON of steel, about twenty hammers, a blower, and a brake drum for a small brake drum forge but i can't seem to find any 2" threaded black iron pipe or coal! would anybody know where i could get some?
you're awesome! thank you for the weed killer thingy! ^_^v
Man has inflation changed some things lol
Really interested in the vids man, i turn 17 next week and i think i'm going to get into this a little bit with my dad when he gets back from overseas, how easy do you think it would be to make a forge?
Amazon has the Pit Bull CHIB0012 31-Inch Propane Torch for under $17
look into induction forging and how to make one
freaking awesome
@ctagger doesn't coal,absorb itself into your steel maing it a lower grade?, propane burns clean
@modernblacksmith: what if you had access to unlimited free natural gas, and you wanted to use the propane torch stick without the propane tank (of course)? would the torch work, or would it just be easier to use a different setup? Please let me know what you would do?
@modernblacksmith thank,s for the info
is there a definitive way to test if something is galvinized
@pcblah may make you feel better but doesn't make you less poisoned....just avoid it and if there is no choice wear a respirator and think about those around you as well...a paycheck ain't worth dying for!
What material was it that he padded the inside of the tube with? (And the same, i assume, as he used for the "stopper")
Cover the ceramic wool or the dust will f you up
@ctagger He lived in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
@2klimpan refractory wool. brand name kaowool it goes by many brand names