My Problem with Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh Content
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- MBT Video: • WHY ARE WE SO BAD AT T...
APS Video: • The problem with compe...
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#yugioh #joshuaschmidt #ygotcg - เกม
I am honored to be included in a Joshua Schmidt video.
But you also said nothing about the video.
you need to make tcg content
@@kevinc.8885 I do.
@@gintuner4371 I said I'm happy to be in it.
@@TeamAPS😭
The culture of Twitch chatters is exactly the same across all Yugioh viewers. You can see it in every VOD. Joshua is saying something 1000% on point and chatters are repeating memes and giving the worst takes you've ever seen.
I'm a minute into the video and already you're right.
Absolute cancer, contribute nothing to the conversation.
Josh Saying "I feel like if I set the tone for it to be a serious discussion, we have serious discussions." While having the dumbest fucking chatters on the planet spam memes and emojis just sort of proves the problem with not how competitive players make content, but how their audiences receive competitive content. And the fact that Josh doesn't see that as it's happening proves how difficult a problem to address that will be.
"1000% on point" 'repeating memes' HUHH
Josh’s chat is honestly awful
I think one of the reasons MBT brings up the articles is less about the medium of articles vs videos, and more that Magic has historically had long form competitive content that was subsidized by websites like Channel Fireball and SCG. If people like Josh/Jesse/Pak were being payed (a lot) to write articles/record videos for a place like YGOorg i’m sure they would.
It is also way easier to write up articles explaining things in a format than to make a video.
A video takes scripting (the article part), recording, editing, and uploading, and has your personality stamped really big on it.
Don't forget prizing, either. Don't forget there were tons of tournaments that you could attend, and better prizes to incentivize you to take those events seriously.
Taking a Saturday to play in a local 1K for cash is a way better incentive for most people than traveling to a YCS and winning a playmat and a box of product.
I grew up reading the Yugioh TCG blog on their website 😂
It's mostly a marketing thing but I did like it a lot
Josh: Our community can have a serious discussion.
Some child in chat: *Spends 30 minutes trolling*
tragically, no one is exempt from having shitty chatters
@@MiyaoMeow588I love the chat, I just thought it was funny.
He says his chat is different from mbts lmao so far from the truth@@MiyaoMeow588
@@ProbablyLast From the looks of it, people were trying to argue in good faith with Amethyst, but blud was there just to troll. There's always gotta be one mf to ruin the experience.
@@MiyaoMeow588 Josh was saying in the vid tho that his community was different than MBTs so that they could have the serious discussions
I look to content creators to breakdown almost everything yugioh related. I just put a video on in the background while I do my normal life tasks, this allows me to keep up with the meta and still have time for normal life things.
YOOO this 💯 literally bouta build a Playlist and get started catching up on housework on my day off
I was a very casual masterduel player, stumbled on to the meta weekly’s which really grew my understanding of lines and decision making, which eventually took me to more complex content like your own. I think you have the perfect balance of high skill expression at times yet explained in a way a more casual player like me can understand
I love how Josh wanted to set an example with a serious conversation and Pak and Nesh are trolling in chat
I think the best start to better competitive content are better deck list videos. I hate the ones done at the store/venue/hotel where they just quickly show all the cards they played and go "Yeah, this one was crazy at 1 and won games". That tells me nothing. I much preferred what MBT did with his RACE video and had a longer discussion about the deck. More like that would be so much better and beneficial for the community.
Some of those videos are made by just asking the winner about their deck and then all of a sudden they want to use your deck for a video lol same if you go and buy boxes and open them at the shop but not making a video for tiktok it drives them crazy. I like opening boxes on trade day I find I can get better prices out of people for a fresh pull.
Those videos are more of part of the way people celebrate their wins though (and as such serve an important community purpose too). I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask those people to care that much about crafting their content in a meticulous way. They just want to memorialize their accomplishment in a way that they can look back on and link to their friends.
@@wdililn Yeah exactly. These profiles arent from dedicated content creators or known topping players. They happened to land their spotlight and wanna flex it. It's crazy to expect super scripted vids and takes from them when they aren't hardcore in the YT business. They just wanna eat, chill, and head home that same night or the next day after event lol.
People dont have to bend over their backs to submit to your skill issue. Just look at free resources and if you suck stop complaining about people celebrating their wins with decklist videos. Just look at Triff decklist YCS videos, super troll and its not really serious.
Yugioh deck profiles are so unbelievably bad and they've been as they are for over a decade.
We've got shitty lighting at the venue with glare on the sleeves and background venue noise making it tough to hear the player.
Then they list off a bunch of shoutouts that 99% of the viewers have never heard of.
After that they get into rapid firing through the list while mumbling things like "standard" "3 cuz of course" until they pause at a choice they view as unique and say something like "2 rat burglar because it helps you out in the grind" and then they move on continuing like that.
It's such a horrible way to get information about a new deck you're interested in playing yourself. The worst bit is that the uploader rarely includes a way for the viewer to look at the list online and port it to a platform, so you're left copying it by hand from that poor footage.
I appreciate your point on the intelligence of the community and how content creators end up shaping the perception of our intelligence with the culture that they foster within their communities
If yugioh is to be taken more seriously, it starts from the top down and it's going to take a long time to undo the damage that years of memes and shitposts have done. I'm glad Josh, Joseph, Nadir, etc. are trying to turn this around, even if content creators were part of the initial problem.
@@spicymemes7458 I disagree that MBT and Farfa are really doing anything to stop this. they say they want change but they still spend most of their stream time giving attention to toxic chat members, arguing with them about nothing, doomscrolling twitter, complaining about how yugioh sucks, x deck sucks, y format sucks etc. I honestly can't watch them any more bc of how miserable they seem about everything. It turns yugioh into a dumping ground for drama for people like Raran and PleasantKenobi to farm content. Josh and Garett Schier are so much better because they seem to actually like yugioh and don't spend ages arguing with weirdos.
@@AntiTachyonlegit I like mbts TH-cam content but every time I’ve tried to watch him on twitch he’s doing some random thing I have no interest in. I really don’t think he’s making a fair comparison here. Just because twitch and TH-cam comments are frequently insufferable doesn’t mean the actual community is.
@@ducky36F true, but when they interact with the community they always promote the worst parts of it. like Peeps's meme reviews are just them saying they want to murder redditors for hours, which gives the impression the community sucks, which drives away new players and people who don't suck, and encourages people who hate ygo and love drama and negative attention. mbt's 2024 burn event video ends with him saying "master duel isn't very good, but", which imo sums up the problem: i don't want to watch someone play a game they hate
@@AntiTachyonMBT literally has tried but the playerbase are fucking morons
people are pointing out that josh is trying to make points while his chat is just spewing some bullshit. in that regard, i think josh's chat is overall not as annoying or memey as other yugioh streamers, and i do think josh can have interesting serious conversations in spite of his chat. but it's also true in any given stream he's gonna spend some time retorting dumbasses in chat. i feel the same is true for mbt, who has a chat that might as well be a hellhole it's so annoying and spammy but still manages to have good conversations about the game from time to time.
i think having dogshit level discourse in chat is a broader culture in twitch/youtube than just in the yugioh community that can't be fixed just by improving the quality of the discourse being produced by creators, but ultimately i agree with mbt that creators proposing serious work elevates the general level of the conversations happening in the community and i would like to see more of it. josh deckbuilding and explaining how to play the game is my favorite stuff he makes.
Yeah it’s indeed more of a TH-cam/twitch issue then a yugioh issue
You touched on it but I think a problem is once something goes past a certain "competitiveness" level it won't get published. If you've solved this format and still have a ycs to play you're not going to tell twitch chat yet, and if I've solved the format I'm not going to tell you etc so competitive content ends up just being possible for general game principles or for events that are already over.
Counterpoint albeit in a different genre of games: Fighting Game tournaments
@@reddabosnot the same. If I'm playing 3rd strike and losing as Ryu, I can switch to a top tier Chun-Li mid match. If my Aiges isn't up to par in a Smash Ultimate tournament, I might have a pocket Kazuya I can swap to. In Yu-Gi-Oh, you submit your deck at the start and cannot change. If I start with Hero, I can't swap to my Branded Deck later on. I can't even swap out a Polymerization for a miracle fusion in the main deck between rounds, even if the miracle is in my side deck. You have to build one deck to go up against everything. if you get blindsided you can't adapt, putting you at a disadvantage. That also means blindsiding your opponent is the best thing to do, provided the strategy is actually good.
@@tailsspin621 I guess we shall agree to disagree, because I believe side decking is our equivalent of switching characters between games
@@reddabos no, because
1. You can't edit your side and main between rounds. Duel 1 is always the same deck
2. In fighting games all options are open to everyone.
3. Changing your character is much more drastic than swapping out a maximum of 15 cards out of a 40 card minimum deck.
4. There really isn't a surprise factor in fighting games. Showing up with unexpected combo routes that get more damage is something, but considering how all the tools are on the table and in the open it's not really likely to catch them with something they've never heard of. Best you can do is throw them a character they aren't used to fighting and hope they just forget what to do
@@tailsspin621 that’s why I said we shall agree to disagree, because we’re both not going to budge from the looks of it
This is why I love Josh. He gives it to you straight. As well as give a good full and middle ground of the game. As informative and helpful too. I mostly think it is hard because the gaps in experience and some just like hearing this is broken rather then hearing hand trap here and use this in the side not main. I like both causal ad competitive, and I work two jobs so it is your love and care for the game, but always on youtube casual is better for channel growth so I get the reason most not giving time for it
This pretty much sums up why youtube is not a great place to go for ygo resources. People are just making content here for the clicks and views most of the time. Articles, a library of flowcharts/spanning maps would work better, but no one wants to put in the effort for some reason. I play MMOs, and those places have plenty of creators who will write 100 page google doc guides without being paid. They love the game, specific content, and just want to knowledge share so other people can enjoy it.
@@AoyagiMei Be crazy good, despite a hectic life of appreciate such details, why those that go the extra mile I like more in this space, since though I like my goofy funny Yugitubers when life is busy I don't have time for them I need to see what's happening and know where to invest practice in and money , a good understanding I have these days helps but those tips help a lot. One day maybe we will get such articles but idk, it's not pretty as click bait things, logic is too back and white.
Master Duel reportedly had 8 million unique logons in January, but of the average playtime is probably like 10-20 minutes a day.
Gaming is by far the most profitable and popular form of entertainment in the world (largely due to mobile, gacha, and live service games), but the vast majority of players are super casual.
I honestly love long indepth videos. Might just be me.
When quinsee did that purrely side deck options video. I learned how to side with that deck. AND i learned a way to apply that way of thinking to siding with other decks. It was just really good piece of content.
I have been playing yugioh since... Well before tele-dad. I can say that now with a super hectic adult life, I love the opinions and information from TH-camrs. I found Josh's knowledge on metas and all deck contents invaluable for people like me. I'm playing locally, not YCS goals so I value knowing what's best, understanding how they play, removing the costly cards (Little Knight), and then changing the deck to my playstyle preference. Keep up your great content my good fellow.
Throughout the video I was wondering if there was a guide to going 2nd in YGO. I don't see basically any guides unless I've just missed them. I think this would help almost everyone except the most seasoned YCS level players, but in all honesty I think every player could benefit from such a video since there's always new ways of thinking and learning
Going 2nd most of time boils down to side deck (that's what they're for), so better of watch em. Josh have em too (handtraps/boardbreakers).
Unless you're specifically play going 2nd deck.
Lightning Storm, Duster, Imperm, Snatch Steal or Change of Heart and either Droplett, Evenly, or Ruler No more, all depending on the type of deck you use. These are all cards that are not bricks and quite good going second.
If you have a specific deck I can make more specific recommendations.
I would love to see more Hardcore Content and/or more stuff about the knowhow of the game. Even if it's something I already know, would love to see other people's perspective.
Enjoyed listening to this discussion. Great video and touched on some great points
it's an age old debate (and possibly a war I might start with this) but it boils down to a non-ygo problem I've been pointing out for years:
youtube should not give money to youtubers. youtube should not be a "job".
that way, we would only see videos made by people who care about the subject matter and have motivations other than money. no churning out daily uploads of poor quality because of the "algorithm", no sponsorships, no series getting axed because they "didn't get enough views" etc.
the title of this video is a perfect example. people use the term "content" instead of "video". because it became a product. a soulless, fake product with the sole purpose of earning its creator money.
but that's just my opinion man
I appreciate Josh's channel adn contents. In the end, I think each content creator is catering to a specific crowd (some more so than other), and it's much easier to create certain content that provoke engagement that don't require a lot of nuance than those that do.
What Josh is doing honestly is probably less "efficient" than all those videos whining about power levels and card prices, but it's exactly because of the quality of content that I am here.
For a while it was less efficient (his early content attracted a fairly niche crowd), but he’s lowkey killing it on twitch rn. The amount of views he gets by just sitting in his room and talking to chat (with a fairly minimal amount of collabs, pre-planned on-stream events etc) is crazy.
It makes sense though - if you’re going to log into twitch and want to watch an entertaining personality talk about this specific game, there’s a very good chance you’ll lean towards watching the streamer who has most knowledge and insight. He doesn’t need gimmicks and a slew of guest appearances when he’s good at entertaining his audience by just playing MD or looking at topping lists, and people feel like they learn a lot whilst they’re watching him.
The only difference between Farfa and MBT is that Farfa has a national top to back him up while MBT has zero credentials while talking like a competitive yugioh player. Even Coder is at least a judge
@@mrsquadbot idk I’ve seen some of mbt’s casting in his recent tournaments and he does have some surprisingly detailed competitive insights. IIRC he got quite a lot of coaching from Jesse fairly recently and I think there’s definitely been a noticeable improvement because of it.
Don’t get me wrong though - there’s a certain level of irony with him talking about players not evaluating cards when he’s often the one falsely evaluating them himself. But I do think he’s started to take the competitive aspect a bit more seriously this past year.
@@mrsquadbotthats the way the mono bussy twitcher goes. Eventually i think he might. But i think he is just more interested in playing and testing new cards or jank in ten minute testings. Where as i would watch josh and a mix of pak and n3sh and why their lines help stave off interruptions. All depends on what im looking for.
@@ct1296 'eh, people get card evaluations wrong constantly and that's totally fine: MTG pro players are not praised for their perfect card evaluations. The difference is usually that there's a lot more developed rationale and frameworks for *WHY* a card is good or bad, and so we see the conversations about it have a lot more nuance.
Which is more or less MBT's point: It's not that the conversations have to be perfect (Trust me, the majority of people who play draft in MTG are REALLY bad at draft in MTG), but more that there's very few ways to have a healthy conversation about yugioh cards: It's usually just "Look at this combo video someone made" or "Lol garbage". Some of that comes down to game structure (MTG is much more defined by 2-3 card combos, and the deck styles are a lot more consistent), but it's still worth calling out.
...I will say I suspect this is a bit of a lost cause however: imo, Modern Yugioh is just genuinely not "learnable" to anyone but extremely dedicated players. I think we're past the point of "I learn only one deck because I want to", and we're at the point of "I memorize the combos of exactly the deck I'm playing because accomplishing even that takes all the time I am willing to dedicate to this game" for the majority of players.
More generally: I know it's fun to hate on MBT, and he'd be the first to admit he's definitely not the best yugioh player, but I always get weirded out when people call him a bad player. He's very clearly above average at the game, and he's very widely proficient in a way very few players are.
Coming from and FGC scene, I will never understand why YuGiOh players say the competitive scene is too small for something. FGC has consistently fewer numbers at events, and far fewer events, than the competitive YuGiOh community, but still manages to crank out plenty of guides, commentary, analysis, ect.
One big thing that seems to be missing from large yugioh content creators is in depth match analysis. Why did player A make this choice? Could they have made any other plays? What is the risk vs reward for making such plays? If its the finals or semi's of a YCS you'll have access to deck lists as well, which you can reference for discussion in the context of a match; "This player is playing 3 Nibiru in their side deck. Do we think they should side it in? And for what?"
After seeing a few responses to this MBT video it's also interesting watching presenters and Twitch Chats be continually baffled at the idea of learning card evaluation skills as if other card games don't encourage that in their players.
The problem isn't that that content doesn't exist. It does except it isn't the most successful content, and there is no reason for content creators to do them especially if their livehood depends on it. Like Josh said figures like Wolf Glick or Justin Wong COULD do it, but it's likely it won't bring sheckles like the usual video would.
@@ellieg8773 Im not too sure. I think its a more subtle/complex issue than there not being demand for it. JWong makes casual content, but there are plenty of FGC creators who don't. Take Sajam or Brian F who have a focus on competitive content. Also Wolf Glick does do these types of videos, where he does play by plays of tournament runs.
This content seems very rare in yugioh, but I am also new to the scene so I could be missing some great content creators who do this.
I watched your whole video of fire kings which was like 5 hours. I’m a casual player for sure and I do like to know as much as I can of that deck. Thank you for this video keep it up
1:06 I was a casual player who played once a week, but had to step away a few months after DUNE due to needing a new car / school / extra hours at work, meta game is completely changed now and have to learn it all at once once I return to the game. Very much agree what you say here
And if you have a gap of a couple of years then the entire way of deck building and what makes something be a "good" card relative to the rest of the meta changes.
@@DuncanHarbison facts! Not to mention all large amount of your decks/collection are almost entirely useless
I feel like the best way to bring out more competitive yugioh content would be to make it in the form of discussions on stream rather than recorded videos due to this would pull people in and be a part of something that can benefit them and being able to discuss with other pros about the game would be both insightful and be worth the time and effort for all involved. That’s just me though.
I always build my deck myself first before I even look at another decklist then after getting used to the cards in the deck then I'll look at decklists to see what other people do differently
Yes that's a good way to do it if you don't mind buying cards that might end up being cut, but that must mean you're fairly experienced, nobody can build a good deck out of the blue without any netdecking at all if they're just introduced to the game, that's silly, it would be like saying, I'll first buy a snowboard before taking lessons to see how to surf and/or if I like it
I'm definitely interested In catching a stream or video about getting good at yugioh, the game frustrates me, I've only been playing maybe a year so maybe getting better would help me enjoy it more aswell
I liked the content, where you go for deckbuilding an archetype (different options, amount of non-engine and choices for secondary engines) and then going through the combo once. Going through the combo a second time and thinking how much it would hurt to throw an interruption here and there and what you would need to continue, etc
This helps me a lot to understand the opponents decks better and get a feeling of the impact my handtraps have by just watching an archetype for bout 1h
You did it a few times but haven't seen it for a while now unfortunately :/
I play casually but played highly competitively for about a decade and love watching competitive content still and also enjoy casual content
Tbh I’d love a super in depth video for competitive content. How to build a side deck, prepare for tournaments, analyzing cards, etc
i personally make 20 to 30 min plus yugioh in depth videos and they have done fairly well especially the purrely one that got over 10k views
I actually think that the How to play artivles on Masterduelmeta are pretty insigthful. They are from players who already played the decks and its really nice as an orimary source.
Master duel meta is a great resource but I think they’re referring to the physical TCG.
1:20 man this is actually such a relevant comment that i don't see many people talk about at all. keeping up with competitive yugioh is soooooo damn hard idk how new players get into the game and consume it. i remember farfa sometime around when swordsoul were tier 1 talking about how he took yugioh seriously for the first time in ages and found it so fatiguing to be keeping up with competitive yugioh
I wanna add:
It's easy/enjoyable for most people to watch a decklist or blanket archetype explanation because it's 1-dimensional; you're only learning how 1 deck/archetype works
To REALLY make and understand an in-depth guide for card interactions, requires an understanding of MULTIPLE decks and their game plans
Why understand which cards to ash and when, when it's easier when someone just says "run 3"
I think the issue is trying to understand what actually makes cards good, and since people don't really share insight on what makes something good but instead shows off the combos of the deck without really being helpful with evaluating what makes important pieces important. The other issue is that the only way to really experience yugioh is related to there being 1 format, so having a way to try understanding the power of individual cards is really important and can probably be explained in a video or 2 as tips to evaluating cards
Off-meta tech is what I primarily hope to find. They twist minds in a match while being impactful. It is why I splash cards in decks without dealing with archetypes. I have been using type/attribute synergy more. I have been able to do some curious plays because many don't see some of what I play.
1:59
I find more enjoyment and insight in reading and evaluating new cards with as little influence as possible. I will ignore second-hand content and sources and take my time to understand the new cards and think about how I can integrate them into decks and combos that I seek to improve or even craft a brand new one. Then after some time, when I feel I've exhausted my own insightfulness or creativity, that is the best time to scour the net for alternative perspectives in case I missed something.
I will admit it’s hard to keep up in the meta when ban list so often shakes things up. All the advice and vids of how to deal with Kashtira for example are now irrelevant because the deck has been nerf to hell and no one uses it anymore.
Same for Purrely, and Sprights.
Oh, good - was hoping this'd get around to like... the two people in the community who actually know how to play the game. Here's my thoughts on your thoughts:
WRT the discussion at about 1:30 - I think sure, there are people who think "can I get x pro player's opinion on the metagame," but I think there's a lot MORE people going "let's see what Gage has cooked up for Progression this week." I don't think that personalities are dominating a discussion of what's competitive, I think personalities ARE the content, and that underlying competitive discussion just isn't happening (with a few exceptions). The community has, in the past 5 years, gotten way more interested in fun little series on Doug's channel than Doug's explanations of F.A. monsters. You're replying like I'm whining that people are just parroting pro players' opinons - all I'm doing here is describing the landscape of what gets views, which is largely videos completely unconnected from competitive YGO at all.
WRT "different communities" - I've probably contributed to this by repeating things like "farfa chatter," but I think it's pretty clear to anyone we're all eating from the same trough. Farfa's viewers are largely my viewers are largely your viewers. I mean, this clip is you saying "when our community tries to have a meaningful discussion it works" while the chat immediately under you is spamming Trif copypastas. 99% of the comments for the rest of the video are "he said elucidate KEKW big word." Like, cmon.
WRT "articles," - This one caught me off-guard - why is the chat so mad about this? They're all just spamming "ARTICLES KEKW" throughout this whole discussion. I think "articles" are STILL a WAY superior way of teaching someone to be good at a card game. You explain in this video you made a generalist Spright primer video that did well, then immediately upon getting SLIGHTLY more in-depth the views tanked. Like I say in the video, this also isn't helped by the fact that a primer like that is immediately outdated upon a new set release or a new banlist, and you can't maintain a video backlog of updates that eat up upload slots. It's incredibly easy to add more, edit, or update a consistently-maintained text primer. You talk a little later about how you think the "best resource for getting better is to show up for stream" but like... no, it's not a more effective resource to hope that exactly Joshua Schmidt is playing exactly the deck you want to see played on one specific four-hour stream day and runs into the matchups you need sideboard info on and his chat's behaving and he doesn't pause the stream to do a reaction. If I want to play Merfolk, I google "How to play Merfolk Modern" and am met with hundreds of resources. I don't have to start scrolling through LSV vods until I see a Rejeerey and hope that it wasn't so long ago it's now outdated.
WRT "Yugioh players are not as smart as other card game players" - This is like, the whole point of the video, right? My argument is that the way the MTG competitive infrastructure has been built REQUIRES the "average" MTG player to develop skills we don't have in YGO, and the consequence is that people are worse. You say later that "no one is hurt by that," which I just can't agree with! A lack of players who think critically about what they're doing means there are WAY fewer opportunities for any individual player to improve their own play. Like if YGO was exclusively populated by 9-year-olds and Jesse Kotton and just he cleaned house all day, sure, no one is being HURT (unless they run into Jesse), but no one's improving themselves either. You refer a lot to "learning a deck at a fundamental level," but the whole thrust of my argument is that there aren't the materials available for people to do this nor are YGO players developing the skills to wield the few materials they DO have.
WRT Netdecking - Netdecking's great. I think it's super important to be able to not get absolutely destroyed in a one-format card game. But at some point you need to be able to describe WHY the cards you are playing are in your deck, and I think YGO players are largely unable to do that. The downside is the "innovation" you're talking about at the end of this point isn't happening outside of a few ultra-competitive circles, whereas in other card games it's a necessary part of playing a strategy.
It's pretty telling that at the end of this discussion you start thinking about making deep-insight competitive videos before realizing they won't make money or get views. You're 100% right - like I say in the video, I think the only way we can resolve this is to change the incentive structures of competitive YGO, like if third-party organizations pay for smart people to write and make competitive resources.
The idea of articles is laughable to many because tons of people never read anything longer than a couple paragraph-long Reddit post now and then. Long walls of text aren’t an appealing information delivery system for these folks. This repulsion towards reading isn’t exclusive to the Yu-Gi-Oh! community either.
I’m also skeptical of articles as a path forward for economic reasons. Ads on web pages are way less lucrative than ads on TH-cam. On top of that, the tiny sliver of the Yu-Gi-Oh! community that would be interested in longform competitive articles are the same kind of people to use adblocking software. How a site would make enough money to pay top players to write articles is beyond me.
@@zzxxqq Road of the King exists as a primary resource for people who want to get ahead of the meta by seeing what the OCG is doing. People read articles when useful information is presented. You're acting like there are people out there who have attempted the format, failed, and gave up. It's a dumb short sighted way of pretending things are shit because they should be shit.
@@geek593 Road of the King has 12 members on Patreon. Where are they going to get the money to pay top players to write articles from?
Additionally, I feel pretty confident in saying that a significant portion of their readers probably click on their metagame reports to see a pie chart and glance at some deck lists (without reading any of the included commentary).
I’m not trying to argue that articles about competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! are fundamentally flawed. I’m saying that they only appeal to a small sliver of the community and are economically infeasible.
It's really just because of the culture of the wider ygo base. I've seen MegaCapitalG's reaction to your video on stream and he's just spending most of it getting annoyed that you compared Ygo to Magic (either he or his chat said "nobody takes Magic seriously"), laughing at the idea of making detailed written articles and guides for the game and boiled down your issue to just "petty Twitter drama".
The reason people laugh at articles is that there probably thinking something more like the casual articles you would see dzeff react to in 2020 rather than the more competetive articles you see on tcgplayer that tell you how to beat the newest meta deck.
The person giving the competitive advice is important too. Josh and Jesse are known figures in the community and are very successful. Another player with a similar skill level could produce that in depth content but never gains an audience because no one knows who they are
It's really hard to talk about deck building for decks that clearly aren't viable but you still are trying the hardest to at the very least make them playable enough to climb Master Duel.
- For starters you will be berated for your deck choice.
- If the deck is something pretty unsolved like say Bujinki, cause nobody plays it or expects it would do good. You will literally get nowhere or be told to change a deck.
- If your deck has a meme attached to it god save your soul, it's been 3 years and any Gt discussion has the same fucking MBT meme that was made 3 years ago.
- If you got that out of the way time to deal with the worst part of deck discussion, Purists. God forbid you put engines to an archetype or even hand traps, there is going to be a huge mess in the discussion berating your choices. Like that time a guy played Blue Eyes with lots of Dragon support to reach Master 1 and he got completely chewed for calling it blue eyes with those ratios.
It's a huge shame cause Deck building in this game is fantastic, and instead of exploring decks we're just taking the piss and pursue bad deck building philosophies.
Regarding your last 2 points, I think the issue is if you don't play enough in-archetype cards it just becomes a bad version of better decks that use the same engine, not an improved version of said archetype.
i also would raise the issue of how many cards classify as an archetype enough to put in the deck name vs just another engine.
for example pk took ba as a name despite only using 3 ba cards. or sinful which uses like 6-7
@@christianl9299 I'm not even trying to split hairs and argue semantics, but there's a fundamental problem with deck building for weaker archetypes, where your engines often outshine what you intended to be the main star of your deck. He brought up Bujins for example, well if you're going to play Bujins, then you're going to think "what the heck, I may as well add tri-brigades, and since I'm playing beast warriors I may as well add a few zoodiacs too, we have 3 barrage in master duel after all", and then you start to take bujins out of your deck because you realize they're not really pulling their weight, and before you know it you're just playing zoo-brigade.
@@christianl9299 Naming conventions are subjective, and so is whether something classifies or not as a deck under an archetype.
Take BA pk vs say running 2 Gamma and 1 driver. 3 psyframe cards are a single interruption, 3 BA on pk literally starts your entire engine with Bardiche and a link 2 for fodder out of any 2 3s and if you want you can add more BA to get more Gy effects out of Pk and even get beatrice.
It's the synergy that matters not the ratios, that is why 3 BAs are enough to call it BA and 3 Psy frames aren't giving a name.
And to tackle the other thing that was said, there is a difference between adding other engines like tri brigade and zoos to a deck and adding bad cards to a tri-zoo deck. It is once again the synergy.
For starters zoo make sense with bujinki but tribrigade doesn't. Bujinki is a rank 4 beast warrior strat, something like fire fist make more sense to help spam out bodies, the spirit engine can help get the light bujinki out and other 4s, and zoo can help extend or even bait hand traps before you start. Don't know how the ratios would work since I thought this on the fly but you can expect that not everyone would get an equal amount of cards. Especially if you add hand traps to the mix, but you wouldn't call this worse zoo.
@@heulg.darian2536 tri brigade works in any beast/beast-warrior/winged-beast deck. You can run a small package and have easy access to links, and as long as they're one of the 3 types you can cheat them out even without the correct materials by using monsters in your GY. Fortunately, they also happen to send each other to the GY and all you need is a fraktail or tenki to get it started. They can summon Ahashima using monsters with a different different level for example.
-constantly updating deck list
-Adapts to the format
-fun and can be competitive
-detailed videos of what certain cards can lead to (end board or response boards)
This is Dread Guy: another of the Best Crystal Beast players.
Neshy topped a lot, but rocks only conclave control.
CB has the overdrive combo build and the control build. Dread GUY always changes his list up, shows his response to the meta, qnd how he goes about it.
He is the best with content creating and adapting in my opinion as he gets in depth with meta, what to respond to, options on how to end a board, and much more.
It hard for new players to get into the game i go watch Pak's combo video and memorize the combo lines but i still don't feel i understand the game and what each card can do, i don't understand whats my priority to do when im interrupted, i watch replays for match ups but i dont understand anything that happening. When i watch deck lists its always "i play this at 1 it works for me" or "this card needs no introduction" so i learn nothing from them ...
Half the fun in Yu-Gi-Oh! is is deck building. Which unfortunately requires a massive amount of commitment, research, and understanding to how your deck works and is built in order to pilot it well. When I deck build, I tend to have a general picture in how I want to run it and if there's an archetype then I can see the direction to where it's headed and all I need to do is build it right (I have a fondness for 60 cards which makes me casual), though unfortunately with the decks I like to play in Master Duel there is always a chance to brick.
When people say it works at 1, they're talking in ratio in terms of how much of that card is in a deck. Usually if you're playing a card at 1, it means you have a way to search it consistently or that it's a great top deck moment to pull you out of a complex scenario and maybe even win. A 1 of is a high power card that you don't want in your starting hand unless it's so powerful that it is limited then you want it in your starting hand.
Eventually after you've played with the deck long enough, you can better determine the quantity of the cards you want to run or even determine if the card isn't worth being run due to the experience given from the deck test. Let's say you have 2 evenly matches and that's not working out, so you put in 3. Let's say 3 of a certain card isn't helping so you put it at 2. Or let's say you tried out Kahyoreigetsu and half the time it's a brick because you only run 3 normal summonable monsters without tribute for it to special summon that are in a quantity of 2-3-3 and in 60, that's just a 2/15 (8 Monsters) with a 1/30 (2 Kahoreigetsu) chance so you remove Kahyoreigetsu and replace it with something else.
You've inspired me to make a video
yeah the banlist can be really frustrating when it comes to making deck guides. like a lot of talk of the hypothetical unchained vid when this literally happened to jessica robinson with her recent sunavalon guide lol
like every combo in the video had to change bc of the banlist and it was a vid that clearly took a long time to make, which i think is pretty debilitating
I try to look at an aggregate of decks instead of copying verbatim and see whats the same whats different and why and where its applicable and build from there on the 2hr video thing if there are concise chapters that would be a major tool maybe
I think with the introduction of MD Yugioh is turning more casual so more casual content is good to have. Explanations of different decks competitive and non-competitive is necessary.
16:20 Yeah, I learned to activate Limiter Removal during the Battle Phase, specifically during my first attack with my Numerons (I play troll gimmicks, boiiiiiii) to avoid many normal negates/disruptions.
It's a bit funny how you mention that players will sometimes develop skills to play a format or a deck, but not develop transferable skills across every format. As a returning casual player, it's exactly the transferable skills that I want to learn more about.
I was instantly reminded of my computer science college teachers. We're there to learn the fundamental skills that won't change no matter what new programming language or technology gets released. Its that kind of fundamental skill construction that the Yugioh community lacks.
what was AmethystPudding cooking in chat?
On the topic of netdecking: I used to not like it, but I'm okay with it now. I don't do it myself, just because I don't really enjoy it as much as building a deck myself. I do look up some decklists or videos just to get a rough idea, but since I mainly play locals and with friends I prefer to test what works for me.
I'm playing my Predaplant/Branded deck for over a year now and it went up and down in consistency and success, but I know how it works and what I can do with whatever hand I have (though there _are_ rare occasions where I can build a whole house with my bricky hand). I know it's not optimal and I could swap cards out for better options but I don't see a need for that at this point as long as I enjoy playing it. Yes that's a very "casual scrub" or whatever opinion but idc that much.
The Deck Test is a very enjoyable experience, just the fact that you can see your assortment of cards working together and the blend is flowing nice just gives good vibes.
I just wish certain creators SPOKE about what there doing, especially in combo videos. Bc thats pretty much first step, the combo. Now it be nice to hear ways to work without optimal hands or into boards . Bc at the end of the day you will lose a game, whether it be misplays, mismatches, top decking or terrible hands. I feel like dialogue in combos could help in this regard
You make competitive content digestible to casual viewers which I think is quite unique to you honestly. I think it comes down to the fact that when you say x is bad into x you explain why as opposed to assuming your audience understands why. You also have a much calmer attitude towards all aspects of the game and approach things rationally often stating that objectively your own opinion can or even is contradicted by the facts.
As regards to long form content they're unlikely to perform is because it wouldn't really add anything. By the nature of its existence it's strategy is already less effective.
Love your takes man, agreed
On the Spright comment: I remember when they were released in MD, picking them up, and after a few games being fascinated when Dkayed said - pre Sprind - that Iperia was the best normal summon on release. Thought it was fascinating info for a deck I was priced out of in the TCG, while I'd still watch the "new deck, what do?" Video that Josh released.
Having all the cards readily accessible and a way to play at any time makes competitive content much easier.
Best way to learn , is to play a budget deck, harder hills to climb, have to learn rulings to help in game and learn interactions
I'm trying to get back to player paper YGO since after Master Duel and my gf playing I wanna comeback and play. The thing is I know very little about how the game's features work without some help and my main fear is even though I have practiced calling my effects and stuff; I don't wanna mess up since I know YGO players are known to be not beginner friendly.
Every time I see a decklist on youtube or cardcluster I wish there would always be an comobguide or explanation-guide, but there ist not. I then look for the combo-guides but these guides are not for the decklist I picked. So.....I need to learn the hard way why specific cards are in the deck.
As someone who’s been playing this game since it came out and attending locals since 2012ish o love this game. That being said, I just don’t have the time to play. Maybe get to a locals once every one or two months. Content like yours really helps me stay with things and understand what’s going on. I get to listen to your stuff at work and my knowledge stays semi updated. Im subbed to channels that make silly content too.
That being said, I really appreciate what you’re doing in this space.
I think one of the difficulties competitive content creators facing is most of them do not have enough fame to attract viewers. I don't know if I'm sort of a competitive player. I never attend tournaments, but I enjoy watching competitive contents a lot. I watch a lot of deck profiles to learn the logic behind card decision. However, most of them did not convince me to invest. Your deck profiles stood out from them not only because they're really infomative, but because you titles in this realm convince me.
The competitive Yugioh community is in the state place the MtG community was in the late 90's. There is a healthy competitive scene, but the knowledge dap between the average YCS player and the top YCS players is huge. Finding information online is possible, but requires digging, etc.
It's probably not going to change, either, since Konami's done everything possible to dissuade people from making Yugioh seriously on a competitive level.
3:00
Good, now that we don't have that problem here, let's discuss why exactly Blackwings isn't up to par in the current meta, aside from being boring.
Watching amethyst pudding go to war in that chat
Having a credible opinion makes a huge difference at least to me. I'm coming from a competitive Pokemon side and there's a select few people who have the experience/mentality to make credible content. Im not just gonna look up John Doe and trust their opinion on in-depth competitive skill unless they have the resume to back their statements. It's not that the hard-core community's existence that's the problem but the number of qualified potential teachers who actually want to create this content
Alot people are looking for competitive content, but only for the deck that they want to play. Basically dividing the audience by the number of archetypes/ combinations.
I love the casual Player that iam. But my goal is to become a good competetive Player.
I have good knowledge but i dont understand the game to his max.
So for me, to become better, i need a lot more practise actually
Josh says that articles are not the way to go but I kind of feel that would be the most practical way to do a deck primer, when a banlist appears or a new card is released you just update the article instead of making the same video (with a little update) for the 9th time, but at the same time I see why a streamer would want to make the same stream 9 times, no need to think too much about the content.
What he meant by "article is not the way to go" is about money. He mentioned it in the video. You don't make money from articles nowadays. And yes, people need money, no one will do the work if they don't get the money.
Yes, the article is very practical, easy to update, fast to make changes, etc. But no money = no one wants to do it. Even Josh wants money, he is not doing content for charity
@@hirukashiro5995 yeah, it would be hard to monetize articles with that information. They would have to be done by people who don't care about getting paid from those. In master duel meta sometimes there are article guides about new decks that are released but the quality varies a lot and those are rarely updated.
I have something to get off my chest with a big God diverse format I believe the sale ban spell can be a clutch card I promise you it can go second or first if you play against purely going second just call the boss monster name it doesn’t effect the monster it effects the player 🤷🏾
What's interesting about the "Channel that makes deep dives on archetypes" is that Konami in their Masterduel Streams, kinda do that for the new cards in the set which I highly appreachiate them doing. Helps a lot, even when not that many people are watching those streams/videos.
But covering EVERY aspect of a deck of each type is just too much to do with a 10000+ card pool since every new deck, you'd have to update every other decklist you presented earlier and that would take so long, that the next pack is already out with even more new cards - that you wouldn't even be able to talk about the new cards in their own video.
At least it's not a thing for 1 person to do.
Made a huge ass post on reddit that took me more than a couple of hours to write, basically analysing the format and how certain cards are woorth llaying and others are not. The post had 4 downvoted and 2 comments after 15 hours. Never again.
To be honest for me 2hrs in depth video with snacks , drinks and maybe a joint xD is the reall Guu especially while opening Duelingbook to the side and solo mode along ..
I think 2hrs+ video is more fun when there's a collab like 2 or more people keep the video more live , since there's room for jokes
besides, there's room for the idea 15 mints free coaching on stream turn into 1 match then we analyse type of video , where a willing to learn competitive viewer plays a match vs Josh with his best most competitive deck on dueling book , then after the much they analyse the replay and break down the reasoning , the thought process of every move the analysis can be timed to 15 mints after the match it depends on how Joshua is willing to provide such time.
What I haven’t seen much of in the current discourse about competitive yugioh content is how this links in with the pricing complaints many people have. Trying to play this game very seriously is very expensive. Why would anyone watch hours and hours of in depth content for decks that they can’t afford to build, to play at events they can’t afford to travel to? If competitive yugioh was more affordable more people would get deeper into the game and there’d be more opportunities for content creators to make in depth videos.
Competitive Yugioh has the potential to significantly grow in popularity but if content creators see the value in bringing memes as their majority content, it takes away from that because the game is seen as a more of a joke than something competitive. Not to say that if you want to take it less or more seriously than someone else that is a bad thing. People should play the game however they want! Mostly a discussion point for content creators if a creator sees a less competitively focused video do well, they may lean towards that over competitive content.
There are so many amazing channels I love to watch but it's hard to find a channel better than Joshua's or Jesse's for COMPETITIVE Yugioh. The explanations provided, the thought process is what separates us lesser skilled players from them and if we want to perform well we should want to see content that teaches us that.
A lot of us players rely on TH-camrs with the knowledge of the game or who have done the research to shape our opinions and ways we play the game. If more of us want more competitive content either we have to go out of our comfort zone or find the information ourselves!
I think this discussion that MBT and Joshua are having is an important one and I'm curious to see what happens to content in the future
Amazing how Wolfey was brought out during this video.
Well it’s because he’s also a world champion in what he makes videos about so it’s a pretty good comparison. Wolf just has a more entertainer type of personality but he could easily be serious and indept if he chose to his older videos were more like that I learned how to do competitive team building from his older videos
If you add ALL YCS participants (OCG and TCG), remove the duplicates, and you assume ALL of them watch your video, the view number will be around 10-20k. It's such a small number if you think about it.
on the topic of coaching, the thing that came to my mind was like a "competitive yugioh class". basically teaching a group of around 20 people or so like a normal teacher would in school or chess coaches for their class. and unlike streams you dont have delay and its more personal while still giving you more monetary benefit than simple 1 on 1 coaching.
It's funny that you brought this up. A buddy of mine was talking about this idea too.
nice info bruh
There's very few people that I would say put out anything that could be considered competitive content. Most creators are more of a meme or somewhat damaging to the game with how toxic they can be.
There's something really big missing in this conversation. It's the phenomenon of what people SAY they want vs what they ACTUALLY want. You might see lota of people ask for competitive content because they think they want it, but in reality, they want the entertaining yugioh content.
i completely agree with this. For the majority of people they just want something they can hear (not even really listen to) while working.
@9:23 More "in-Depth" content would be appreciated.
just watched an hour long Branded Despia Video, watched it like 3 times and made an 7 page Flow chart from the different combos, learned why Quem+Cartesia is a great combo.
i went from Mirror Jade "pass" in my deck - to Mirror Jade + Quem + Granguignol + Branded in Red + Branded Lost +Mercourier in hand. all from just someone going more in dept on how do cards and effects work and different strategies for it.
video > th-cam.com/video/8Ueez2bKsV0/w-d-xo.html
8:22 you don't need a good deck at all. Just a good side deck that beats the meta. And side decks are cheaper than main decks.
I feel like yugioh should make new tier 0 super meta yugioh master rule that specialized for tier zero format (like full power tirament ...and so on) cause this format need to exist for like very competitive people. And right now the normal tcg/ocg format. And pretty much lower level format for non meta or og format.
I consider myself a very competitive player, and I tend to shy away from TH-cam content because it's simply not made for people like me. Sure, I'll watch Farfa's Table 500 videos every once in awhile for a laugh, but for the most part, the information and knowledge I'm trying to take in is very hard to find on this platform.
Even back in like 2011/2012, when I was trying to make Crystal Beasts a viable competitive strategy, I simply could not find any videos that were on my level or higher. It felt like I was watching dozens of people on the left end of a Dunning-Kruger graph while trying to climb up to the right end.
Fast forward 12 years, I finally top an event with Crystal Beasts (after an 8-year hiatus from YGO), and I'm immediately met with all sorts of criticism from the Crystal Beast community because they don't like or understand my deck choices. I'm the one who decided to ignore all other content creators and pave the path for Crystals myself. I put in the work, innovated on my own, and finally saw the results I've been working towards. Turns out, most of the people in that community are a collective hive-mind that frown upon those who don't follow the "established" builds and ratio choices. But those players hardly go to tournaments to begin with, and their "combos" are largely done in a vacuum, while mine are built around responding to and playing around the various threats of the ever-evolving meta.
Just goes to show that the vast majority of Yu-Gi-Oh! players are very much casual-level players who lack the learned skillsets that come from several years of playing at a competitive level.
Well, you could always up the content by Showcasing the Duel Explanation in-game with Subscribers or something like that.
My old account which u can find here: youtube.com/@averyp36?si=Z4C_nANaHqytb5dR
Was just that: relaying information about upcoming decks and cards, as well as other content. My new account (this one) is just replays, deck lists, and im going to be starting my old content.
12:17 it's not even about something getting banned. People don't make that kind of content because they have to work really hard on it for multiple weeks at a time, only to have a small subsection of the community actual care and be interested enough to watch it.
My go to is team aps, they do fun stuff and aren’t always competitive
17:18-17:40
This is exactly the clip I was looking for.
Good video 👍
I think the reason MBT is so big on articles is that you can write an in-depth article in a day or two you know you can write a long essay in a short turnaround time but the same amount of essay in a video essay would take you months. the format would change change by the time you get it out for one of many reasons
The issue is the research, including testing and format context, required for the article takes a massive amount of time and only gets more difficult as more cards are printed. The procces of editing and writing being the only part of the time that gets counted isn't an accurate representation how much would need to go into it.
24:33 josh x wolfey collab would go insane
This is a good way to develop patreon to help incentivize competitive gameplay. But I think Hani tried it and turned into more of a scam. I know I paid for the one with Jeff jones and Bordan, I think duelist academy?, and they just didn’t have enough content to warrant paying. I think it was like a video every 2 weeks
Hey Josh, kannst du mir helfen, mein gren maju deck zu verbessern? Ich spiele es sehr gerne und möchte es so kompetitiv wie möglich machen.. kannst es ja als challenge sehen :) dankee
Lets make a compromise
It’s fun and great, but the majority will always rule.
Most started as casuals, and for many they gravitated towards the more casual content before eventually graduating to more in depth stuff. It’s just the nature of the beast.
I watch Yu-Gi-Oh content because i like the creator. I stopped watching cimo years ago. Deeezf used to be cool before he was only MD content. So for me it's the people and but because they are taking about my favorite game
6:35 a person that doesn't think for themselves is a dangerous person for society. And it's not good to promote the idea of listening to one person for all your information and thoughts. 😮
I'm just here to see the funny mathmech card be played and for the streamer to get mad at it.
I think a lot of this criticism of competitive content is solved by streaming vs long form video content.
Streamers need to fill 5 hours of context x 5-7 days per week. You can talk about those things during the 25- 50 hours people put out per week
16:24 Another issue is that alot of decks play an almost different game with basically every modern deck breaking the rules in its own way like purrely changing the xyz rules, if you learn to play purrely you haven't really learned how to xyz summon you've learned how to xyz summon in the changed purrely way which won't really apply to other xyz decks. It makes it harder to actually learn yugioh when every deck is effectively playing with a modified rule set
You're absolutely right, cards are less about being what they are in the constraints of a mechanic and more about breaking that or optimising it to a point.
Another good example is Rituals, a ritual summon is inherently a minus. So to solve this you get Rituals spells which recycle and ritual monsters with search on tribute, have extra effects etc
Nekroz is a great example of this.
Or you get Zoodiac which completely breaks the Xyz mechanic and rarely xyzs in the traditional sense ie 2 level 4s for 1 rank 4. Or cards like Zeus and Typhon.
For fusions is again about advantage because they use to be inherently minus interactions. Look at illusions or branded for the resource gain.
Synchro has just gotten easier and easier. Compare any early level 4 tuner to swordsoul Moye or Taia for example.
There's barely a deck in the game where the wincon is clear just from reading the cards. Remembering that hearthstone guy who tried yugioh and how on earth was he supposed to know to link climb into Accesscode just by reading the Salad structure deck?
@@samuelheddle But in arctype wincon, you can find Pyro Phoenix as your wincon. And when you find Trancendance, you will find this useful to combine with Pyro Phoenix.
I feel like a big problem for newer players is the casual yugitubers that tries to do competitive content like meta discussion tier list and card analisis, I'm think Yacine and Kali effect for exemple. New players go to these channels are like "hey that's shorter videos, that's funnier imma watch that" but then turns out those yugitubers are not so good at the game and cards or deck they said were op or on the rise... juste aren't. And I fell for those traps when I first begun the game, I ended up putting money on terrible choices. This kind of incident can really hurt the player's learning curve and experience about the game and eventually maybe lead them to quite the game.
Same here. I liked to watch these two as well and theyre still nice but after I was in the game a while, I noticed more and more, that they have very weird takes sometimes
Yacine has multiple ycs tops, he's pretty good. His video titles are just clickbait
@@nigamnation then i definitely don't understand why he's saying every card is broken not only in the title but also in the videos
@@plume5248 because it gets clicks and more comment interactions. Kinda like how Sam's videos titles are always capitalised just to catch attention. Though to be fair to Sam atleast his editing in his videos is top notch. But his videos do good 100% because of presentation and his energy rather than the content of the video itself.