There are quite a few SE players at my locals and it's crazy how often you see someone get handtrapped 3 or 4 times and then scoop after they see the normal SE Ash. Had a guy the other day stare at his opponent like how Jesse Kotton stares at his opponents after getting shiftered. It's one thing for a 1 card combo to generate a lot of advantage, but it's another thing for that same combo to generate that advantage AND give tons of followup. It's just silly and it looks like we're gonna be in a similar situation with the fiendsmith stuff once INFO comes out.
Reality Check , is Snake-Eyes Ash and the board it generates all that powerful ? All the Snake-Eyes have literally zero protection and so the noobs run a zillion hand traps to protect them so the other noobs can't play around it. I laugh with all that. I'd rather be afraid of Majespecters. They all can't be targeted or destroyed... Oh and they easily beat Snake-Eyes unless Snake-Eyes get too lucky. But of course noobs can't think outside of the box they just copy whatever deck list won some major tournament and play with that Hahahahaha you disgust me all of you noobs.
@@Oloistogamersloungeeistepisogl so true, everyone playing a million hand traps is a scrub noob, including the ycs winners. If only they had a winner gigachad like you taking majespecters to a top 8 finish in your 7 persons local to show them how it's done.
@@Oloistogamersloungeeistepisoglwho tf? Bro istg your shit, like I already know you are if you actually talking about majespecters. Just be quiet g Mai.
I like a lot of 1 card combo decks, small engines are fun. But the problem is that these 1 card combo decks are not ending on a Drident or Widow Anchor and then the rest of their hand has to carry them. Snake-Eyes does absolutely everything, 1 card starter, nearly every starter is also an extender, tons of follow-up, no 1 card board breaker can put enough of a dent into their end board, nearly impossible to OTK and Ash alone is a full OTK on any other deck. The power gained for the commitment is so disproportionate that any 2 card combo deck like Dino, Swordsoul or even Unchained look silly by comparison.
As a Dino player I felt this in my soul. Every time I begin to draw 5, it comes with the caveat that every card in my deck is not a streamlined, minmaxxed, and in-archetype package. It's just a good pile of synergistic 1.5/2 card themed combos that require alot of deck space and resource management and at times a lack of follow-up.
@@UncleJrueForTue When Ash doesn’t kill Snake-Eye Ash fully. But an Ash kills your Misc summon or Animadorned eff and hence making any baby in hand and useless, it feels real bad knowing that SE is more rewarded anyways even if both of you pop off :p
Semi Flamberge he says when everyone plays 1 or 2 anyways Hahahahaha and limited Oak that everyone plays 1 Hahahahaha and the way you wrote this I can assume you are not trolling. Yet you are getting so many likes by saying the weaker cards of the archtype should get limited... I guess proves what kind of noobs I am dealing here with.
The issue with hyper consistent one card combos is that it homogenizes the game. The line you'll end up seeing will be broadly the same each time its executed, and its not satisfying to play out because it becomes "did they resolve it?" If so you lose, if not you win.
@@michaelkeha No one wants flow chart game, even " meta player ". It's just that it's the unfortunate best way to win a game. There will always be a meta, the job of the game designers is to make it fun.
@@zeneck7387 Bullshit on even meta players a bunch of strung out pill bunnies and zombies need flow charts to function they lack the lateral thinking skills to play any other way and game designers job is to actively break metas preferably often enough that people finally learn the secret of all the best of the best in every game and every sport that playing the meta only leaves you painfully average the best break it they are always ahead of it and their legacy defines what the cult of mediocrity slavishly follows
@@zeneck7387 No the job of the designs is to break metas often and hard enough that hopefully the lesson will finally get into the heads of the pill bunnies and grind zombies that make up the meta player base which is playing the meta in any card game or any sport is not how you become the best it's not even how you become good it's how you shackle yourself to the cult of mediocrity and fight over the scraps Also yes meta players want flow chart gameplay it's the only thing most of them can comprehend
This argument never made any sense. In a non one-card-starter deck, what would those handtraps be? Extenders that if drawn alone also do nothing, and don't provide the defense that HT's at least do? Only difference is aesthetically you bricked on useless archetype cards rather non-engine
@@ak47dragunov In a Deck with Multiple 2 Card Combos it would mean you draw the second one of your 2 card combo way more often. Raidraptor for example comboes with basically any 2 birds, so every bird is starter/extender. Your argument only works if Extenders do not provide any value if not drawn with the right starter card. But thats not how extenders work, so your argument is nonsense
@@heinzpeterson In Snake Eye almost all of the starters also function as extenders, and you have a plethora of them, so no, your counter doesn't make any sense. Again, the parallel scenario to what happened in the video to a non 1-card deck would be just swap one of the HTs for an archetypal extender that does nothing on its own.
I think one card combos should be in decks that require a lot of engine to work. Like Earth Machine. You basically sacrifice versatility in answers for consistency. The problem is a lot of one card combos just don't require much space to work
@@O6i System down? Locals I suppose? Cause the hate is real... My grain of salt here are Pend decks, at least those who play like actual Pendulums (Just ignore the Wakaushi incident...)
Cards need to also stop having graveyard effects or “when removed from the field” effects because that’s just more combo that, in some cases, is exactly what the deck wants.
@callmeosho7792 ain't gonna lie, people complained about kashtira format last year but it was the best yugioh had been since before TOSS format with the most diversity. For once it felt like an interactive game where decks could really shine and play in unique ways. Shame Konami killed that in under a year.
@@jeanpitre5789 Kash format was still bad because Ariseheart just like Colossus was gatekeeeping every rogue deck. The best format recently (to me a modern TOSS) has been AgOv format, while PoTe (and to a lesser extend DaBL) was very interesting before Ishizu shufflers/millers ruined everything.
Another problem I have with SE is how stupidly pushed their effects are: Why does oak add/ss back from banishment? No other SE cards works with the banishment zone. Why does flamberge triggers if sent from hand? No SE card works by discarding cards. Why does wanted returns from banishment? It totally nullifies what should've been the drawback of using original's GY effect. And what more can be said about poplar at this point... It feels like all those effects were deliberately added to the cards to reduce drastically the amount of counterplay possible. Which is baffling when so many other cards have strict but understandable restriction on them.
Konami: We have to keep some of these cards banned like Pot of Greed because they are way too overpowered. No Mystic Mine either, we need it fair an balanced. Also Konami: haaaaaa Snake Eye goes brrrrrrrrrrr
@@milehighgambler to be fair pot of greed is a really bad example to push your point here; pot of greed being legal only means every deck plays pot of greed + whatever they were already playing, meaning snake eyes is still the best deck
I feel like its less "one card combos are too strong" and more "a single cards doing too much on its own are too strong". I do not mind strong combo endboards when my opponent actually had to commit his entire hand to their strong combo. I do mind strong combo endboards when its a single card creating the entire setup. I do not mind my opponent using 3 backrow cards like karma canon or Ice dragons prison to stop my turn. I do mind if my opponent stops my entire turn with just a single Dimensional barrier. I do not mind my opponent using their hand to break my field and set up their own. I do mind my opponent clearing my entire field with just a single evenly matched. I do not mind my opponent stopping most of my turn with 3 handtraps. I do mind my opponent straight up turnskipping me with a shifter. This is not to say that i dont want good cards to exist. I just descibed 4 scenarios that are very bad for me, but i dont see as problematic.
I think that i disagree I don't think that end boards being made by a single card is a problem For example I don't think circular was a problem when the deck made a heatsoul and a trishula as a end board with follow But with the firewall suport made it a heatsoul, a spell negate,a effect veiler, trishula
@@chicabu67 circular was a problem at every scenary, a FAIR one card combo to this day would probably be Invoked with normal summon aliester and that was strong for a good chunk of time and only asked to be banned not because it was broken but to actually no be a good option every meta 3 years ago, speedroid terrortop was also fine even tho it rotted on banlist for a long time
@JasonM-lq7ri not necessarily A single card doing to much apply to a one card combo but not necessarily Let use the opposite of a combo card in the example "super poly" It's a card that make a body that draw a card while dealing with two cards for the opponent while also being impossible to respond
Something I have been saying since the beginning, ban Original Sinful Spoils. Disconnecting Snake-Eyes from the Diabellestar engine significantly hits their starter consistency, while also reducing their ceiling as you eliminate the synchro line. Snake-Eye Ash becomes the only 1 card starter, and the deck has to rely 2 card starters, reducing the amount of non-engine it can play as it needs to play more searchers like Where Arf Thou? to get to their 2 card combo. It would make the deck much more reasonable to deal with.
One card combos should not be the ENTIRE board, but still enough that if you're forced to end on one you won't lose on the spot. That's incredibly difficult in a game with so many blowout cards and two-sided floodgates that can be abused to be one way or only active during the opponent's turn. The main reason people play THIS many hand traps(to the point of literally BRICKING on them), is to avoid losing instantly to those annoying one card end boards to begin with. So either an opponent counters your hand traps and sets up a board anyway(defeating the purpose), or both sides keep ending their turn because they only drew ONE one card starter and it gets stuffed, leaving them passing multiple turns in a row because neither side can play anything because they don't get to set up. But as long as generic hand traps do enough that it's worth the risk of bricking on them, people are going to persist in running them. And it's not like you can't direct your hand trap lineup to support your deck either, there are instances where you can turn a level 1 hand trap into a Link-1 in order to facilitate certain plays, or use a tuner hand trap to just Synchro into something that extends your hand in different directions. If anything that's part of the problem, since Board Breakers are more efficient at dealing with established boards than hand traps are with disrupting them in progress, but people are so terrified of letting a board get established they'd rather run more hand traps that synergize less with their deck, even if it means bricking more often than running a smaller board breaker package they actually NEED to be consistent with their higher investment play lines. Even decks that come with their OWN hand traps would still rather use the generic ones at higher counter(which is necessary when they can't be easily searched), which makes games play out as a sackfest of sorts. Rather than explore the kind of utility synergistic and even ARCHETYPAL hand traps provide, instead the FEAR of one card combos just stifles peoples' willingness to express their skill in favor of running as many "safe" disruptions as possible with as compact an engine as possible to get to the kind of consistency running that many potential bricks requires. While this is even more apparent in formats that make use of Maxx "C", that's just a symptom of the ACTUAL problem that every top deck is getting closer and closer to being a micro engine paired off with as many generic disruptions as possible to ward off other micro engines.
I don’t think this type of gameplay is necessarily the result of 1 card combos. While 1 card combos are probably too strong, I don’t think it causes the 15+ handtrap meta. Rather, the problem is how small engines are getting. If your deck is optimally played with a 20 card engine, even if it doesn’t have strong 1 card combos, you’ll still end up playing 15+ handtraps because you have the space and there’s very few better things to be playing.
When I don't play 12+ handtraps, I feel like I am waiting to be victimised going 2nd because the 1-card combo decks are so strong and they can be backed up by 2, 3 or 4 handtraps most times they go first. The current meta forces players to build their decks in this manner if they want to have even a half chance when they lose the die roll.
Yeah there’s no east answer here. Either I run my deck so that I don’t brick all the time and get FTK every other game, or I load up on hand traps and draw enough to stop them but then me and my opponent play uno for 2 turns until I either draw enough of my engine or they draw their 1 card starter.
In the rogue decks the freedom to search your ‘correct’ interactions and not the obvious only choice is a freedom that comes at the cost of the deck just not being able to put up either the resistance or the force that’s necessary to defeat the bigger meta contenders.
Sid Meier once said that a game is a series of interesting choices. By that measure, modern yugioh might as well not be a game at all because you have 1 singular choice and 1 choice only, EVERY SINGLE TIME!
This is perhaps one of the biggest reasons why I'm such a fan of Vaalmonica because while they aren't in the top tiers they are at least rogue relying on just two card combos but are relative to each other so you can branch into your standard plays. White Woods to is quite similar in regards to having a bunch of two card combos that kind of bridge into each other. Not to mention these decks by nature want to run less non-engine to ensure that they consistently go to their gameplan which is another design benefit. Imagine a meta where every deck is at most only running 7-10 handtraps, I would like that.
Too bad White Woods shuts off all use of Pendulum Scales with a walking floodgate and Calamity Locks with Centur-Ion cards, meaning run 20 hand traps or White Woods will kill you on sight.
I miss when the normal summon was super important, and once you committed that you were vulnerable to interaction hitting a chokepoint. Back when "one card starter" meant a single high impact normal summon and not "you can open with five of these and just play through everything".
They will not outright ban Snake-eyes since they are like Branded, the main multi set archetype that has a set that either introduces a new archetype from their story or supports older released archetypes. The last banlist only pushed out all the Synchro decks like Mannadium or Superheavy Samurai out of the meta, as they lost their key cards of Baronne and Savage, with now only Tenpai left as one of the other options against Diabelstarr engine decks. Best you can hope for in the next banlist is limit Wanted, Diabellstar and Ash to 1 since they are the main contributers to the Fire format.
There's no reason to touch Diabellstar at all. Ban Original Sinful Spoils and either limit or semi-limit SE Ash so that you actually have to tech in more cards to kickstart their engine.
@@saniblues-5013 True, but hitting Diabellstar and SE ASH to 1 is much more in line on OCG philosophy of going after consistency cards. Banning OSS just kills off the Diabellstar package on Fire decks, which is already in decline thanks to the introduction of Fiendsmith. Also, there will be more Diabellstar support and it may still revolve around Snake Eyes, soo I would not count on OSS being banned just yet.
The only reason decks can still have any bit of consistency while playing so many hand traps is one card combos. I've been saying for years that one card combos are a problem but everyone called me a yugiboomer. I love that all my "terrible" takes from the past several years have only proven to be correct as time goes on.
The problem is how good the one card combos are. Imo it's good that you can always do something with only 1 card, but you shouldn't be able to do stuff like summon Red Supernova Dragon + set Red Zone with 1 card.
You may have missed that not only do one card combos force you to play a bunch of hand traps, they also LET you play a bunch of hand traps because of your own combo’s consistency.
wrong, even decks that don't have 1 card combos run handtraps it just makes it easier, just look at drytron they still run 12+ handtraps yet doesn't have a single 1 card combo
IMO one-cards are fine as long as they aren’t also extenders that essentially blank a handtrap. Something like TOSS format Orcust, where you had one-cards like Arma Knight / Mathmetician / Recycler, and still ended on a very strong board for the time, still didn’t feel oppressive. As the opponent, depending on your hand, you could try and stop the one-card and hope for the best, or try and hit a lower-impact but harder-to-play-through chokepoint further down the line. There was skill in anticipating how the gamestate would change depending on where you interacted. With Snake Eye, it’s often just a question of whether you have more engine than the opponent has handtraps - it’s rare that you have to adjust to interactions in unique ways, as you usually either have a way to push to something resembling full combo or end up passing on very little with a bunch of handtraps of your own.
I wouldnt mind 1 card combos that much, if you actually had to play a ton of engine for those combos to work. Having space for 20 non engine while also having 1 card combos that end on everything is just super toxic
We need more decks that have completely different combo lines and end board depending on your starting hand. I play the new Shining Sarc deck, and it's fun that you can either do a big Gandora play if you open it + Ebony DM with Shining Sarc (to end on a fusion + spell negate), or do a simple Ties play (to end on a spell, monster, and targeting negate).
There's a fair number of decks like that, but they go completely under the radar because they aren't competitive. It's practically impossible to design a competitive yugioh archetype that doesn't have powerful one card combos and doesn't go through linear combos now. Decks are just so crazy efficient and streamlined, that there's no other way for them to be competitive. Yugioh archetypes have hit critical mass on powercreep. Barring the insane stuff like Ishizu-Tearlaments.
A lot of decks are like that actually, they just get brushed off as bad. It's in my opinion the correct direction for modernized plays but they never get a chance to shine
So more kashtira lol. If I draw Kash tear or the normal spell opening I'm dropping a second ira plus using a level 7 Kaiju to go into either a level 10 synchro, or 7xyz depending on what I mill
@@quint2568 I don't mean like that, where you end on slightly different or better boards. I'm talking about decks where most or all of your combo _and_ end board are different.
It's funny how people complain about Lab when it doesn't let them play but no one talks about one card combo decks and how can they use +15 hand traps. People only likes the game when their one card combo works and summons 3 negates + handtraps + 4 cards in hand + summon even more in opponents turn. Konami needs to diverse the game a little bit more.
And lab isn't even that good. A hand trap can easily screw them over and if you run backrow removal like you should anyways it's even less of a problem. I'll admit it is bull to go against if they run dimension since you auto lose if you play an archetype that relies on fusions, synchros, or xyz mainly to get their lines.
One-card combos have been a thing for many decks, but snake-eyes (and mathmech) have many one-card combos that still lead to the full exact same combo even if one or several of the other one-card combos get stopped.
A lot of players in LATAM have stopped taking part in Ygo tournaments, and have moved into other games (Digimon, PTCG, OPTCG). I guess this is just a sympthom caused by something that began when the got the January '24 banlist.
As someone who quit YGO and went to OPTCG (and am extremely glad I did that) I can tell you that it's probably not a simple banlist reaction, but a general dissatisfaction with YGO and what it has become: Diceroll roulette -> 1 card combo + handtrap roulette -> repeat and even if you win said roulettes you won nothing in terms of prizing. Am not from LATAM though so can only speak for myself and my friends, none of us are probably ever going back to YGO.
@@Lessonius I'm from there though (There's even a YCS on my country in 4 months), and I'm sure is a symptom of a lot of stuff: Decks costing more than the minimum monthly wage, one card combos, handtrap go-fish minigame and in general just poor gameplay experience. Unlike in USA or Canada we just can't really afford to sunk any more cost on a card game.
N12015 is right, in my case i left the game before that banlist, since Tear format i've seen locals die and prices get high, i know high prices are nothing strange to YGO but what happens is that no one will pay more than the minimum wage just to MAYBE play, you can just move on to another TCG and know for sure you can get your money's worth and more important you can PLAY. On the other hand, tournament prices rarely pay off, if ever so... why even bother? MTG locals do this thing where they give you store credit if you do well, maybe that could be a solution to get more people back into playing BUT that doesn't fix the gameplay itself and at the end of the day that's why i left but that's just a matter of preference on my part. MTG lets me play "Dinomorphia" for less money, no floodgates and without risking someone raging at me because of my deck choice. I like to believe that YGO can be "fixed" if Konami puts alternate formats on the spotligh and develops them but idk
@@isaiahaldhafera9752 If I had to guess is because rogue gets overly punished by handtrap spam. It was only expensive to play meta, but you could play suboptimal, but now the gap is just too large due to all the disruption going around so you don't get to play period. And btw, I was talking about minimum wage in my country who is around 600 USD (double the average), still less than a Snake-eye set and kinda like a Tear set.
The game has always been in a not fun place. First it was biggest beater, then it went into weaker effect monsters, then it went into more combo, then it became more efficient combo, then hand traps, then one-card combos. The game being stuffed with feel bad cards like Dark Hole and Harpie’s Feather duster, Confiscate, Delinquent Duo, Change of Heart, etcetera to break hard established boards was also bad with bans being more of a reaction than anything. It’s just the way the game.
Maybe. We can start printing stronger board breakers to allow for a comeback mechanic. Dark Ruler No More is the perfect example to me. Giving player 2 a chance to comeback after his 3 hand traps failed to stop a combo. But it doesn't let you otk either. Maybe if we print more cards like Dark Ruler No More, for different situations. That way we can allow other decks to fight back after an SE combo goes full throttle uninterrupted.
The problem is not one card combo, many deck has one card combo. Synchron is one card combo who ends on negates endboard. The problem exist when that one card combo also doubles as extender. Did you see that Snake Eye vs 4 handtraps video? It really shows how broken SE is when every card can be a starter and extender.
Also Synchron needs a lot of specific cards in deck. Which can be bricks, but also limit space for non-engine, so you can't play 20 handtraps. Synchron has a few powerful one-card combos, but is still fair since there's a noticable trade-off
I play the diabellstar version of the deck because I thought you play her and sling her spell and traps towards the enemy and control the game. Snake eyes only for paying her cost to stay on field. It is super fun (no bonfire , no snake eye but with 3 poplar). It is one of the most engaging and fun decks I have played. But without the snake eye, the deck is mid at best. Because she is the only piece that is present at the board, you rarely can go into extra deck or do crazy combos, which is fine, but we need better spells for her. Unfortunately I see wanted/original being limited/banned and this without any support is pretty much the death of my spellcaster commander vibe deck. Very fun. I lose more than I win but man absolute worth it. Buz yes I do agree, the cards without snake eyes are fair. I splashed 1x oak, 1x ash and 1x flamberge just to have access to my extra deck.
13:17 yes, and it was rescue ace hydrant that they summoned instead which might be even worse to play against. I also want original sinful spoils - snake eye to get banned as I think that would be more fun than limiting/banning all the snake eye cards. Also probably takes away the need to limit Wanted which hurts new potential Diabellstar archtypes like White Woods. Limit 1 festival just felt like a complete solitaire fest as all the hand traps and board breakers were also limited.
i really wish they never printed the snake eye stuff (or at least remove poplar/princess/flameberge etc. diabbelstar should've been fire king support !)
Decks do too much turn 1 -> handtraps need to exist -> decks need to be resilient to disruptions -> decks do too much turn 1 -> we need more handtraps How long can we keep this cycle until it implodes on itself?
@@michaelkehaRush Duel is a take every card away from everyone, burn them, and rewrite the rules from scratch complete hard reboot. Are you thinking of Duel Links/Speed Duels?
@@michaelkeha You mean your actual problem is that they don't release and support physical Rush Duel product in gaijin territory because they hate us? Yeah, that's pretty much how everyone feels right now.
@@autobotstarscream765 it's why I consider it a half hearted reboot since only one territory got it and the rest of the world is still playing the normal game not much of a reboot if you don't release it to everyone else and you keep printing and supporting the other game anyway
A deck of several small engine systems and 15+ hand traps is not healthy.(like snake eye,you can add Fire King, kashtira,which are not independent from the main Snake Eye engine because they can facilitate your combo and resist hand traps). Those decks with big engines will be hard to survive in future because you have to take many trash in your deck and you can only take less hand traps,such as Branded,all of trash cards you put in your deck is just to find Branded Fusion 😂
The point about the relief you feel when Sinful Spoils doesn’t summon Ash is so true. I like the card design on those (minus Wanted getting to search AND draw in the same turn), but with SE it’s just too much.
That's the thing, it really all goes back to how yugioh be built. One card combos were created because handtraps was too strong because huge combos were too strong and these are to some degree all streamlined and clear cut interactions and i don't know if konami want to fix this.
@N12015 Once a Summoning method is introduced into the game, it can be curtailed but is never removed from the game other than by rebooting the entire game (Speed Duel, Rush Duel, Dungeon Dice Monsters, Capsule Monster Colosseum).
*Post-modern Design* We need more decks like tearlament and labrynth that are designed to not only require a lot of engine in order to play the game, but also have the ability to play reactively. I'd prefer if the decks could also play on the opponent's first turn, even though I know that a lot of players dislike that, I don't see how it'd be possible for this game to advance in a healthy state without that type of card design, barring a massive banlist or new master rule that somehow completely changes the dynamic of yugioh as a whole. I'd also love to see more cards that actually require your opponent to play the game or have played the game in order to get full value, something like tearlaments havnis (my favorite card design in the history of the game for that reason), or even just cards like the furniture pieces/cooclock and tearlaments kashtira that allow a deck to play some of their engine on the opponent's first turn instead of needing to wait for the opponent to finish their 40-part combo in order to begin playing the following turn. *Hand traps in modern yugioh* Personally, I don't like the dynamic that handtraps introduce in the meta of yugioh. They feel more like gatekeepers than anything else. Deck's are only meta when they can play around handtraps extremely well, and if meta decks can play around handtraps extremely well.... then what's the point of hand traps? Just play boardbreakers at that point instead of gambling that the opponent doesn't have the out or extender. I aknowledge that if all hand traps suddenly got banned then some extremely toxic decks would suddenly become playable, like hero that gets to end on a one-sided macro cosmos, skill drain, and sometimes also an imperial order, but those decks would immediately get hit if that was the case. *What if we remove the problem cards?* Since I've heard many-a yugioh player use this argument in the past: Yugioh doesn't exist in a constant state - making the argument "If X didn't exist then Y deck would be broken" isn't valid, because even if that was the case for a period of time, the ban list would simply update to fix it (and even in those scenarios hopefully konami would have the foresight to pre-hit stuff like that). Now of course making change for the sake of change isn't a good reason to do it, but if Konami thinks they might be able to move the game in a better direction long-term I'd be more than happy to sit through a couple of terrible formats.
the first point I absolutely agree with and honestly, in my opinion, it would also kinda fix the problem with 15+ hand traps since you can't fit many of them anyway
The most efficient way to get lots of decks to play on turn 0 would be to release semi generic turn 0 cards (for example, a card that enables turn 0 plays for machine decks). This avoid needing thousands of new cards and should cover 95% of decks, the 5 remaining percent being ungodly pile decks and archetypes that don't work well with the turn 0 cards they're supposed to use (for example, SHS could have that issue if the support is made of traps).
It's honestly crazy how many decks have cards that do more if, or even REQUIRE the opponent to have things on the field to actually do anything, but even in those cases people would rather run bricky hand traps than take advantage of those consistency bonuses. That should clue people in on how much of a problem it is that strong end boards are so easy to make nowadays.
1 card combos are cool when they have lower ceiling that gets backed up by non engine. The issue rn is that 1 card combos are doing everything (like at least Mathmech it was just OTK).
Mathmech only otk? are you high? Mathmech ends on one S/T negate, one omni, and one pop + handloop. All of them you can't really interact with in most main decks.
Just like everything else in Yugioh, not all 1 card combos are created equally. Normal Aliester is a joke compared to what your normal summon is expected to lead into these days.
Pokemon is a testament of how consistency isn't the problem in a card game. You can have cards that are literally double Graceful Charity. The problem lies in that consistency winning you the game on the spot, an issue exclusive to Yugioh. Save for some kind of fundamental rule change, I don't see a way to fix it. Konami can ban Ash or Spoils, but those are just symptoms, not the actual disease.
Pokemon is not as balanced as you think. HP basics powercreep is absurd and so is the meta. You cant play non EX GX decks anymore. Rotation also kills any strategy after 2years (lets be real 6months). No side deck is terrible imo. Only 3 good decks in any meta is also boring af compared to ygos 20meta decks and like 100rogue decks
There is not that many competitive decks in yugioh right now at least not those numbers above. I would love to see these 20 meta decks or 100 rouge decks play against snake-eyes or voiceless voice there’s a few more but to say that there’s a lot of decks people can play with out the massive handicap is naive.
@@Salvo_117 look at any event top cuts. 50 percent is always random. And the others are like 6 different decks which are all build very differently with different engines and extradecks etc. Yes rogue has handicap. But the gap isnt like 2017 19 anymore. Rogue decks do win. Just not 12rounds in a row usually. You cant have 20tier 1 decks. But we definitely have 20decks viable in tiers the rest is rogue. Also pokemon is boring because theres no interaction and you cant COOK
As long as you don't commit to normal summon, things like Unexpected Dai (Loci / White Duston for Fiendsmith) or Origin works like it Close example would be the lvl 5 charmer companions, mainly "Awakening of the possessed: Nefarious Archfiend" for Selene shenanigans (But you need to commit first, I know)
Love your discussion, BUT we have to first look at "Why" from Konami perspective!! We have plenty of FAIR non-1CardCombo archetypes but nobody cares because to our surprise...... it's WEAK and we dont appreciate fair card design, we cant lower Power Level anyway. If we want non-negation board and still being "Meta" we have to deal with +8 cards resource. The latest card design aims at shifting a bit away from Ash, Imperm perspective is our latest Tenpai with unaffected field => so as we play more Ghost Ogre (And we still hate it because of its non-interaction...) . There's no actual perfect solution right now 😅 I hate how i turns out and Konami's way of card design, but just enjoy what we have for now I guess
Lorcana added it's FIRST search card in the set that released last week, and it searches for another Madrigal card (from Encanto) to place on top of your deck. The thing is, there are MANY Madrigal cards that came from this set and in draft format youre not bound by mana color so it feels the most genuine searching for a card based on the situation you need to overcome rather than searching for one thing and one thing only. Thats the problem with modern yugioh. The newer meta relevant decks aren't creative or skillful. You really have no choice on your actions and all effects do one linear thing. Sure, you can search ANY level 1 fire monster with Ash, but you will never EVER add anything else but poplar. Sure, you could add ANY fire dragon with paidra, but you'll only ever add chundra. Theres NO skill expression or problem solving. Its literally like memorizing the answers for a test rather than actually studying the content to understand how to arrive at the answers.
A one card combo I can think of that is fair is cyberdark horizon. It can start up your entire process fir cyberdark end dragon which is a disgustingly powerful card, but its not an instant win. You still need a good hand to pull it off and it takes over half your avaliable monsters to summon. If it gets outed then you cant just bring it back with one card (monster reborn aside ofc) and it has big weaknesses to handle. Theres a combo with a buster blader card that stops your opponent from accessing the extra deck but that is incredibly hard to do and *will* always take 2 turns minimum unless your opponent mills it from your deck to be equipped. Cyberdark has no fancy costless omni-negates and while powerful, the boss monsters are stoppable.
I think one card combos are fine, but only if the combo is not linear. For example Tearlaments, Perlereino/Reinoheart is a one card combo to get to Kitkallos (I only play MD btw) but what you add (or send) using her depends completely on the rest of your hand, if Maxx C is active, etc. and then the random mills dictate what else you get to do in your turn. When the combo is completely linear and deviation leads to a less powerful endboard, that's when 1 card combos get boring. Also these kind of deck are usually handtrap heavy and the handtrap wars can get boring pretty fast.
Honestly the issue isn't the hand traps, they're fine. This is like old Yu-Gi-Oh where you have traps to stop your opponent's plays. The issue is, unlike with old Yu-Gi-Oh, if you do not have enough traps, the game is pretty much over. That makes it so that the games are kind of back and forth but only until one player resolves an effect and then it's GG. This also means you can't play more strategically with your disruptions since you have to negate certain stuff.
The reason one card combo's are a problem is not because of the concept of a one card combo itself, but the actual real end boards they can produce in the modern day. Pretty much any good deck can produce ridiculous end boards now if unchecked, from just a single starter card. Many of which consist of broken generic boss monsters. The reason you need 15 hand traps in your deck is because you will lose if you let a deck actually play to their ideal end board. You have to interrupt it, otherwise you simply won't be able to play on your turn. End boards need to be nerfed. If you nerf the end boards then comboing in and of itself gets nerfed by proxy, as the reward level for the combo's goes down. If you nerf comboing by proxy, then 1 card combo's are obviously also nerfed and less of a problem. If you nerf the end board, you wont have to fear your opponent ending on 5+ interactions with monsters you can barely swing over if you don't have 5+ interactions yourself turn 1. If the end boards in the games were actually reasonable and manageable by a turn 2 player, you would not see a need for excessive interruptions in the game. We need to get rid of broken generic end boards that can just stunlock your opponent if you get to do your combo.
Yeah master duel going second is pretty much “did I draw a hand trap?”, if the answer is no, you then have to scoop because you aren’t going to play thorough apollos 4 negates, baron negate, plus whatever other hand traps they also have.
@@cheryltunt6934 You can get rid of 2 of those things in one Super Poly which then protects the rest of your plays from targeting, guess which ones those are? The ones on the field. There's a reason Baronne + Apollousa is NOT a good end board against any deck with a generic or Fusion ED. You can also chain things like Droplet and Solemn Strike to deal with monsters on the field when using Spells or Traps respectively. You know what those cards are LESS useful against? Hand Traps. It all comes down in the end to hand traps being a huge annoyance that helps the starting player more than it hinders them. It's never just been about Maxx "C", it's always been about the hand traps it draws into that make you fight a board at the same time as hindering your attempts at making one.
THANK YOU, I’ve been saying this. SE Ash is the problem card. Wanted is fine for other decks like Infernoid, Noble Knights, Boxers, etc. Ash might get hit to 1 next list, but that card needs to go eventually.
personally i dont feel relief when i dont see original into ash because in my experience it's usually been into hydrant which i know isnt as powerful, but if they got that far and i didnt interrupt it's already too late let's be honest im going to face the same board but backed by backrow
Genuinely some of the best games i've had in MD recently have been because I've been playing Rescue Ace Diabellstar, and I've had a lot of opponents stick through the games as well. I like to think the opponents are enjoying the breath of fresh air as well and having a lot more points of interaction and decision making instead of just waiting to see the Ash. I've got no real evidence for this other than far fewer early concessions, but i'unno. Seems to be the case.
I play a small snake-eye engine with volcanic (2 ash, 1 oak, 1 poplar, 1 birch , 2 OSS , 1 flamberge , 1 SE diabel , 1 field ) and it's insane the amount of ressources it gives me with only 10 cards
When I play against Snake Eyes, it feels like one card does everything the deck needs it to do including grabbing another one card that does everything. Turn two comes around and if you don’t have the right tech in hand, you’re just waffling and anything you do just starts them again but on your turn.
What if they limit every hand trap to 1? It might actually force people to play. Otherwise its either start with 1 card combo, or use an entire hand of hand traps to disrupt your opponent until you pull your 1 card combo........
IMO, dragonlink was and still is the perfect combo deck in terms of where yugioh should be, flexible in its engine to allow it to constantly adapt and allow for deck building talent to show, it has 1 card combos but they end on very little, mostly a couple interupts and follow up, but you can continue to invest into that endboard to make it bigger at the cost of resources so there are decision trees in how far you want to push depending on what your playing against. Also it has no hard bricks, hard bricks suck to play, soft bricks also suck to open but the fact theyre still playable makes them fine. and no 1 card in the deck (minus chaos space) generates too much advantage to not consider whether to interupt it or hold. Ofcourse varients of dlink like halqcross aren't what im talking about but theres a reason it was meta for like 4 years (still playable now) and yet had very few complaints laid against it
If they happen to not ban Flamberge and only semi-limit Ash when they do address the deck, I'll probably pick up "pure" Snake-Eye as a fun deck. It may be/continue to be meta, but its still got neat lines that I think look cool as hell
Snake eyes is unironically the reason I picked up runick fiendsmith magical musketeer. I literally searched every card that can banish and I invested all of it into hate. Now with the latest support for galaxy im hating even more by running ftks for it bc I swear our handtraps do jack to them, but they do everything even to other meta decks.
Hey Joshua, how do you feel about players just not going for game. For example, I could have an empty board or one face up defense monster that is beatable with no effect and the opponent could have game with the monsters they have on the field when comparing the total damage they can cause to my life points. Instead of going into battle phase and ending the game, it feels like so many players are either bming or just not aware that they don't need to try to do a 10 card combo of removing and special summoning and syncho, xyz, link summoning, all these extra steps just to end the game. I find it pretty annoying for the most part, but how do you feel about it and why do you think players do that?
This happens very often in MD. People over extend for absolutely no reason, and in a few cases I have been able to punish them by using Nibiru, if they had just attacked they would have won. Literal skill issue. Is understandable if they want to have a negate to avoid losing to something like a bystial on the battle phase, but it happens even when you are at zero cards, also it happens most often with Kashtira, a deck famous for not having negates.
This is why I love playing Branded with my only hand traps being 2 Bystials and 1 Tri-Brigade Merc. That’s it. 40 cards. I literally have time to eat my food while my opponent plays their combo game 1 😂 It’s amazing. I can just watch them set up and then when I go, it’s time to break the board.
One card combos are fine, but only if the engine is big enough so you cant play 15 hand traps or the enboard is not oppressive enough next is the consistency of the one card combo which is not the most important but also not an irrelevant point. On the topic of SE - I hope they dont hit Original or the Diabelstar line too much, cause they clearly want to connect her to other decks, maybe not as extensive as Visas but they want to do more as we see somewhat with GoblinBiker and White Woods. For SE the issue is one poplar and one Flamberge are kinda enough, but if they lose one of them, idk how much they can still ball - not the biggest expert on the deck tbh. - but I think this has to be the angle, cause the advantage both create is absolutely insane and is the problem. Josh mentioned it at the later half as well, the card advantage being generated by just normal summon SE Ash and its not Ash - "Ash is just a Stratos" but then its Poplar who goes plus X and Flamberge later for plus Y. Maybe you guys in the comments have some good ideas? Alternatively unbann Ishizu Tear and no one will play Snake Eye anyway ^^
1card combos are fine. 1card combo that ends on a full 10card board with 5 cards in hand 2 handrips, full recovery is too much. Because no matter what happens if one thing goes through nothing mattered what u interrupted. 1 card combo into 2negates and maybe 3 cards on field that do something but ni recovery is fine imo like older meta decks
I don't believe for one second that the regular winners are there because they are skilled. I think they've learned how to stack their shuffles, which is why they win far more consistently than they should.
That’s why marincess and saladmangreat are decent decks. They can play a lot of handtraps and set up decent boards while adding back the starter. If you get ur field cracked u can play still
I feel the problem isn't the one card combo here, at least not entirely. I play Centur-ion Horus, Centur-ion can start with the terrain, Emblema, Primera or Trudea. If Primera is stunned after her effect, she cannot be special summoned for the rest of the turn. If Emblema is used, and the card still on the board, you cannot do anything other than a Centurion Extra deck monster. Yes we play Calamity and yes this card should be banned. But the reason we play this is because going to another card like Cristal Wing or Blazar is considered "bad" because it's only one negate. SE should have had a lock like this, either "you can only summon fire monsters until the end of the turn" so that a Omega/Dis Pater auto win combo T1 or a Zealantis ban field trigger Promethean trigger Phoenix you lose well play gg could'nt be made. It's a fire deck that plays way to many non fire powerful cards. I don't know, it's really not healthy. Prices are like so dumb right now. SP is still so high priced. For me the real problem is the number of effect every SE/SS cards have, with so little/none restrictions, and the power of those effects. Like Flamberge can send any cards the player wants to the backrow and next turn it will be his card + can summon two monsters from the graveyard if he touches the gy by any way. It's not like when only destroyed, it works when they link, it works when it's in the backrow, it works everytime. this is just so dumb, the cards re-summoned can also use their effects, the spells are way too strong, the fact they printed a Bonfire is ridiculous considering it was not a limited card on release when a Reinforcement of the Army has been limited for so long. We know Konami does this because stonks high prices high chased cards, shortprints. So now they are at a state where either they hard hit SE but take the risk of seeing player leave the game because after spending an entire salary in their deck they cannot play it, or do little hit by little hit and we will see this format for 6 months again. Also this fucking extra deck is way too toxic. Ending on a board with Apo 3, Flamberge, Ip to SP, Promethean Princess on GY, Raging Phoeniw on GY. Raigeki it and the board is even stronger. Also the monster reborn from Promethean is just way too much. I feel bullied by this deck.
Maybe Konami needs to unlimit more of the board breakers like Heavy storm, Giant Trunade, Raigeki, etc. to encourage people to approach the game from a different angle. Decks being half of hand traps is lame, but the alternatives aren't that great.
Boardbreakers suck when going 1st (Unless fking Fenrir, God I hate that card); several times my only play was to set 1 (Unchained), pass, cause 2 Lava golem, Evenly and TTT, or a similar ratio of boardbreakers... while if drawing Gamma or Nib, while weaker in comparison, it feels safer to deal with opponent's shenanigans Was a fan of 3 Dark hole at some point too, but again, it's impact isn't enough unless you're pushing for game
S/T board breakers are extremely unhealthy (please ban Duster and Lightning Storm ffs), and they don't hit what you would want them to hit, also Giant Trunade is not solely banned for its board breaker role but because you can also abuse it by bouncing your own stuff. For board breakers that hit monsters, nearly everything you could hope for is legal (Raigeki, Dark Hole, Droplet, E-Con, Mind Con, TTT at 3, CoH and Snatch Steal at 1, etc), the issue is that not only they're not good going first, but they don't deal effectively with what Snake-Eye produces in terms of board, gy, hand. Breaking a board isn't enough if you leave your opponent with 2-3 HTs, Flamberge triggering in GY getting 2 bodies that search, still having Promethean, and follow-up.
@@drianna75 I know the feel of getting Duster for 5 and Welcome Lab being Ash'd on top of it... but boardbreakers are far from unhealthy (Except Evenly... trading +5 for 1 card isn't "even"), even stuff like DRNM & Lava golem has restrictions on them, and, again, are useless turn 1
@@Jyxero S/T breakers are unhealthy because traps are reactive and can't really be protected effectively, there's literally nothing you can do (except having Solemn or Anti-Spell lol), whereas you can definitely play monster-based deck and play around board breakers
@SkyllerSY, I definitely could have phrased my comment more succintly. What I meant to say, was: "Circular wouldn't be a problem in this meta, even if he were un-banned." My thought process is based on my arbitrary observation of its presence in the Master Duel ladder. But hey, that's better than nothing.
@@SkyllerSYOh please even before it's ban Mathmech wasn't even doing anything either. Let's be honest here the German top player didn't like the card so mindless dick riding sheep of a community flocked towards his opinion that's it.
I've been saying this since the day they started making one card combos in a game with 0 resources and a 20 card starting hand. It's absolutely ridiculous to think this is where the game has gone
the flamberge ban makes way more sense then the OSS ban, it hurts only pure snake eye and leaves all the other decks with a lvl 1 fire that play diabelle star untouched. Flamberge TBH feels the most unfair cause his form of removal just feels so broken and not even to mention the fact hes a mini soul charge
One deck i like playing wirh is using original sinful spoils to summon rhe lvl 1 fire Evolzar and ending on ultimate conductor tyrano, the rank 6 Evo with the Hot red dragon negate, and possibly a lagia or dolka.
I agree Ive been against one card combos from a card design perspective for a while. It turhs yugioh into flow chart the game. You play one card and you know the rest of your turn. Thats why i liked tear format or like playing lightsworn. You need to be able to pivot or improvise based on a lot of constantly changing variables. Also, why i think synchron is cool with hyper librarian.
if you remove handtraps you will see more multi archetypes decks, what do you prefer? the problem are not the handtraps, any deck should have multiple ways to starts and follow after 1 handtrap, for example branded , the meme of ashing B Fusion doesnt applyed anymore, the problem is konami keep forgetting old decks and keep pushing selling product and doenst care about balancing and making the game fair for all decks, the handtraps its the way they choose to fix this but its not enough
@@jdanilozuluagap2981while hand traps arent a problem on their own and are healthy, issue is when there is such a critical amount of them that there is toxic decks like tenpai that are basically just an engine for a handtrap.deck. We have 3 versions of imperm/veiler that just say "negate a monster on the field" which are not healthy nor interesting for the game in the slightest. Hand traps are also not just there to help the going 2nd player, they are also essentially end board pieces. If ur opponent makes a board the ash blossom and imperm are basically 2 additional disruptions. Cutting down on the amount of hand traps would improve the game. Edit: Also people's defense of hand traps as a going 2nd tool because it "keeps combo decks in check" is oddly similar to people's defense of maxx "c"
@@idkdontask7142 about tenpai we both agree is a lazy design archetype and its unhealthy we just cannot remove handtraps for that since we must think further and ask ourselfs are all deck in the same capacity of compete? the problem with handtraps im agree its that when you have to face a board they increase in power and become a little too much , we also agree that we should cut the repeat ones imperm/veiler/ mourner , but the purpose of a handtrap is that you see them in your initial hand otherwise it has no sense , so i dont think if we can semi limited or cutting down , its too hard to balance this game, i prefer attacking the end boards ; the cards do some much and the players will always wanna play all his deck
The real issue is the only deck really worth playing is Snake-Eyes. The banlist as currently constructed hurts too many archetypes far too much and all the new archetypes from LEDE are either mid or sacky filler that players convinced(lied to) themselves about how they would impact the format. If Konami of America would stop being such scumbags and stop taking away all other options(so that players aren't railroaded into only playing whatever they design to sell for 6-8 months) and hit problematic turn enders like Droll, Shifter, DeckLock, and (maybe) DimBar. Another idea, would be they give us more answers to turn enders like Upping the amount of Called By's and Gammas(should prolly ban omega since the handlooping is broken) and maybe we'd actually have an interesting format.
@@michaelloveless243 As someone who owns a Dino deck, knows a good bit of the ins and out, and plays them, don't ever recommend anyone that dumb, sacky garbage idea again. With all the critical mass of handtraps floating around your deck space to counter them is very limited, ftk variants die to both nib and droll(the good variants only die to one or neither), and lastly you brick twice as hard. I'm sure the 2 minutes it took me to recognize that deck's blaring issues never crossed your mind though.
@UncleJrueForTue I was ranked 22nd on Dueling Nexus with Dino FTK. It's my own build and can FTK through 3 hand traps. If you can pop a baby, you can ftk.
Circular was this close to becoming AIDS with the release of Vaalmonica. Scales 3 and 5 to summon Level 4, which is every Mathmech, and two Big Chungus Link-1s that make a solid V-Link with Singularity, hope your Deck didn't need any Link or Pendulum Monsters or you can't play under Jeff Lock 2.0!
I’m just so tired of playing against a deck that can’t be stopped. I’ve played against snake eye and drawn all hand traps it still ends on a full board so wtf can you do
There are quite a few SE players at my locals and it's crazy how often you see someone get handtrapped 3 or 4 times and then scoop after they see the normal SE Ash. Had a guy the other day stare at his opponent like how Jesse Kotton stares at his opponents after getting shiftered. It's one thing for a 1 card combo to generate a lot of advantage, but it's another thing for that same combo to generate that advantage AND give tons of followup. It's just silly and it looks like we're gonna be in a similar situation with the fiendsmith stuff once INFO comes out.
Reality Check , is Snake-Eyes Ash and the board it generates all that powerful ? All the Snake-Eyes have literally zero protection and so the noobs run a zillion hand traps to protect them so the other noobs can't play around it. I laugh with all that. I'd rather be afraid of Majespecters. They all can't be targeted or destroyed... Oh and they easily beat Snake-Eyes unless Snake-Eyes get too lucky. But of course noobs can't think outside of the box they just copy whatever deck list won some major tournament and play with that Hahahahaha you disgust me all of you noobs.
noo the funny comment got deleted i wanted to screenshot it
@@Oloistogamersloungeeistepisogl so true, everyone playing a million hand traps is a scrub noob, including the ycs winners. If only they had a winner gigachad like you taking majespecters to a top 8 finish in your 7 persons local to show them how it's done.
@@Oloistogamersloungeeistepisoglwho tf? Bro istg your shit, like I already know you are if you actually talking about majespecters. Just be quiet g Mai.
@@Oloistogamersloungeeistepisogl That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read in my life.
I like a lot of 1 card combo decks, small engines are fun.
But the problem is that these 1 card combo decks are not ending on a Drident or Widow Anchor and then the rest of their hand has to carry them.
Snake-Eyes does absolutely everything, 1 card starter, nearly every starter is also an extender, tons of follow-up, no 1 card board breaker can put enough of a dent into their end board, nearly impossible to OTK and Ash alone is a full OTK on any other deck.
The power gained for the commitment is so disproportionate that any 2 card combo deck like Dino, Swordsoul or even Unchained look silly by comparison.
As a Dino player I felt this in my soul. Every time I begin to draw 5, it comes with the caveat that every card in my deck is not a streamlined, minmaxxed, and in-archetype package. It's just a good pile of synergistic 1.5/2 card themed combos that require alot of deck space and resource management and at times a lack of follow-up.
@@UncleJrueForTue When Ash doesn’t kill Snake-Eye Ash fully.
But an Ash kills your Misc summon or Animadorned eff and hence making any baby in hand and useless, it feels real bad knowing that SE is more rewarded anyways even if both of you pop off :p
@@kroffen7 So real
Master Duel June Banlist:
Banned
-None
Limited
-Oak
-Temple
Semi
-Flamberge
You forgot limit Subversion and Kurikara
No gonna lie the oak hit seems real
After some people play 2 in the ranked
@@chicabu67and they are getting fire king lol
If they generous they'll also semi the poplar 😂, like not a lot of people play 2 anyway.
Semi Flamberge he says when everyone plays 1 or 2 anyways Hahahahaha and limited Oak that everyone plays 1 Hahahahaha and the way you wrote this I can assume you are not trolling. Yet you are getting so many likes by saying the weaker cards of the archtype should get limited... I guess proves what kind of noobs I am dealing here with.
The issue with hyper consistent one card combos is that it homogenizes the game. The line you'll end up seeing will be broadly the same each time its executed, and its not satisfying to play out because it becomes "did they resolve it?" If so you lose, if not you win.
See that's what game designers have to actively fight against meta/comp players want flow chart games
@@michaelkeha No one wants flow chart game, even " meta player ". It's just that it's the unfortunate best way to win a game.
There will always be a meta, the job of the game designers is to make it fun.
@@zeneck7387 Bullshit on even meta players a bunch of strung out pill bunnies and zombies need flow charts to function they lack the lateral thinking skills to play any other way and game designers job is to actively break metas preferably often enough that people finally learn the secret of all the best of the best in every game and every sport that playing the meta only leaves you painfully average the best break it they are always ahead of it and their legacy defines what the cult of mediocrity slavishly follows
The meta for yugioh has not changed much since 5ds era
Very much the same sorta combo deck strats just faster and faster
@@zeneck7387 No the job of the designs is to break metas often and hard enough that hopefully the lesson will finally get into the heads of the pill bunnies and grind zombies that make up the meta player base which is playing the meta in any card game or any sport is not how you become the best it's not even how you become good it's how you shackle yourself to the cult of mediocrity and fight over the scraps
Also yes meta players want flow chart gameplay it's the only thing most of them can comprehend
The final is a good example of why 15+ handtraps are too much
This argument never made any sense. In a non one-card-starter deck, what would those handtraps be? Extenders that if drawn alone also do nothing, and don't provide the defense that HT's at least do? Only difference is aesthetically you bricked on useless archetype cards rather non-engine
@@ak47dragunov In a Deck with Multiple 2 Card Combos it would mean you draw the second one of your 2 card combo way more often. Raidraptor for example comboes with basically any 2 birds, so every bird is starter/extender.
Your argument only works if Extenders do not provide any value if not drawn with the right starter card. But thats not how extenders work, so your argument is nonsense
@@heinzpeterson In Snake Eye almost all of the starters also function as extenders, and you have a plethora of them, so no, your counter doesn't make any sense. Again, the parallel scenario to what happened in the video to a non 1-card deck would be just swap one of the HTs for an archetypal extender that does nothing on its own.
9-12 I’ve tested is the correct ratio
@@ak47dragunovit can be alternative starters, ngl pulling a hand full of hand traps imo isn’t interesting, I never go above like 8-11
I think one card combos should be in decks that require a lot of engine to work. Like Earth Machine. You basically sacrifice versatility in answers for consistency. The problem is a lot of one card combos just don't require much space to work
the thing is that earth machine ends on nothing, and these 1 card combos ends on everything
I used to play earth machine, and then one day some sided system down against me 😅
These days they can end on like, one thing, but yeah, the other engines do way more with fewer cards as well@@SkyllerSY
@@O6i System down? Locals I suppose? Cause the hate is real...
My grain of salt here are Pend decks, at least those who play like actual Pendulums (Just ignore the Wakaushi incident...)
Cards need to also stop having graveyard effects or “when removed from the field” effects because that’s just more combo that, in some cases, is exactly what the deck wants.
Can't wait for 0 card combos where it just has to be in your deck to use.
“If you control no cards, you can special summon this from your deck.
@callmeosho7792 ain't gonna lie, people complained about kashtira format last year but it was the best yugioh had been since before TOSS format with the most diversity. For once it felt like an interactive game where decks could really shine and play in unique ways. Shame Konami killed that in under a year.
yacine656 did it 😂
Charmers has that but no one uses them.
@@jeanpitre5789 Kash format was still bad because Ariseheart just like Colossus was gatekeeeping every rogue deck. The best format recently (to me a modern TOSS) has been AgOv format, while PoTe (and to a lesser extend DaBL) was very interesting before Ishizu shufflers/millers ruined everything.
Another problem I have with SE is how stupidly pushed their effects are: Why does oak add/ss back from banishment? No other SE cards works with the banishment zone. Why does flamberge triggers if sent from hand? No SE card works by discarding cards. Why does wanted returns from banishment? It totally nullifies what should've been the drawback of using original's GY effect. And what more can be said about poplar at this point...
It feels like all those effects were deliberately added to the cards to reduce drastically the amount of counterplay possible. Which is baffling when so many other cards have strict but understandable restriction on them.
They are def pushed but flamberge triggers from hand due to diabellestar who was made to work with them.
Konami: We have to keep some of these cards banned like Pot of Greed because they are way too overpowered. No Mystic Mine either, we need it fair an balanced.
Also Konami: haaaaaa Snake Eye goes brrrrrrrrrrr
@@milehighgambler to be fair pot of greed is a really bad example to push your point here; pot of greed being legal only means every deck plays pot of greed + whatever they were already playing, meaning snake eyes is still the best deck
@@lemlem35 if you play snake eyes just say that bro
@@milehighgamblerexcept, he makes a valid point
I feel like its less "one card combos are too strong" and more "a single cards doing too much on its own are too strong".
I do not mind strong combo endboards when my opponent actually had to commit his entire hand to their strong combo.
I do mind strong combo endboards when its a single card creating the entire setup.
I do not mind my opponent using 3 backrow cards like karma canon or Ice dragons prison to stop my turn.
I do mind if my opponent stops my entire turn with just a single Dimensional barrier.
I do not mind my opponent using their hand to break my field and set up their own.
I do mind my opponent clearing my entire field with just a single evenly matched.
I do not mind my opponent stopping most of my turn with 3 handtraps.
I do mind my opponent straight up turnskipping me with a shifter.
This is not to say that i dont want good cards to exist. I just descibed 4 scenarios that are very bad for me, but i dont see as problematic.
I think that i disagree
I don't think that end boards being made by a single card is a problem
For example I don't think circular was a problem when the deck made a heatsoul and a trishula as a end board with follow
But with the firewall suport made it a heatsoul, a spell negate,a effect veiler, trishula
@@chicabu67 circular was a problem at every scenary, a FAIR one card combo to this day would probably be Invoked with normal summon aliester and that was strong for a good chunk of time and only asked to be banned not because it was broken but to actually no be a good option every meta 3 years ago, speedroid terrortop was also fine even tho it rotted on banlist for a long time
@@danielhertz1984 that's not being fair. It's just being far to weak or are you gonna say that invoked is a good deck post-POTE
@JasonM-lq7ri not necessarily
A single card doing to much apply to a one card combo but not necessarily
Let use the opposite of a combo card in the example "super poly"
It's a card that make a body that draw a card while dealing with two cards for the opponent while also being impossible to respond
Wait what kinda of board do you have set up that loses to one evenly?
Something I have been saying since the beginning, ban Original Sinful Spoils. Disconnecting Snake-Eyes from the Diabellestar engine significantly hits their starter consistency, while also reducing their ceiling as you eliminate the synchro line. Snake-Eye Ash becomes the only 1 card starter, and the deck has to rely 2 card starters, reducing the amount of non-engine it can play as it needs to play more searchers like Where Arf Thou? to get to their 2 card combo. It would make the deck much more reasonable to deal with.
And also ass which I don’t think they want. Not defending it, I don’t like the deck, but they’re probably not gonna do that
But…my T.G.s 🥲
One card combos should not be the ENTIRE board, but still enough that if you're forced to end on one you won't lose on the spot. That's incredibly difficult in a game with so many blowout cards and two-sided floodgates that can be abused to be one way or only active during the opponent's turn.
The main reason people play THIS many hand traps(to the point of literally BRICKING on them), is to avoid losing instantly to those annoying one card end boards to begin with. So either an opponent counters your hand traps and sets up a board anyway(defeating the purpose), or both sides keep ending their turn because they only drew ONE one card starter and it gets stuffed, leaving them passing multiple turns in a row because neither side can play anything because they don't get to set up. But as long as generic hand traps do enough that it's worth the risk of bricking on them, people are going to persist in running them.
And it's not like you can't direct your hand trap lineup to support your deck either, there are instances where you can turn a level 1 hand trap into a Link-1 in order to facilitate certain plays, or use a tuner hand trap to just Synchro into something that extends your hand in different directions. If anything that's part of the problem, since Board Breakers are more efficient at dealing with established boards than hand traps are with disrupting them in progress, but people are so terrified of letting a board get established they'd rather run more hand traps that synergize less with their deck, even if it means bricking more often than running a smaller board breaker package they actually NEED to be consistent with their higher investment play lines. Even decks that come with their OWN hand traps would still rather use the generic ones at higher counter(which is necessary when they can't be easily searched), which makes games play out as a sackfest of sorts.
Rather than explore the kind of utility synergistic and even ARCHETYPAL hand traps provide, instead the FEAR of one card combos just stifles peoples' willingness to express their skill in favor of running as many "safe" disruptions as possible with as compact an engine as possible to get to the kind of consistency running that many potential bricks requires. While this is even more apparent in formats that make use of Maxx "C", that's just a symptom of the ACTUAL problem that every top deck is getting closer and closer to being a micro engine paired off with as many generic disruptions as possible to ward off other micro engines.
I don’t think this type of gameplay is necessarily the result of 1 card combos. While 1 card combos are probably too strong, I don’t think it causes the 15+ handtrap meta. Rather, the problem is how small engines are getting. If your deck is optimally played with a 20 card engine, even if it doesn’t have strong 1 card combos, you’ll still end up playing 15+ handtraps because you have the space and there’s very few better things to be playing.
When I don't play 12+ handtraps, I feel like I am waiting to be victimised going 2nd because the 1-card combo decks are so strong and they can be backed up by 2, 3 or 4 handtraps most times they go first. The current meta forces players to build their decks in this manner if they want to have even a half chance when they lose the die roll.
Yeah there’s no east answer here. Either I run my deck so that I don’t brick all the time and get FTK every other game, or I load up on hand traps and draw enough to stop them but then me and my opponent play uno for 2 turns until I either draw enough of my engine or they draw their 1 card starter.
Ive been having no problem going for no handtraps and use power spells instead. Its all about knowing how to Break boards
@@cheryltunt6934or play a different format, dont give into they ignorant spam
In the rogue decks the freedom to search your ‘correct’ interactions and not the obvious only choice is a freedom that comes at the cost of the deck just not being able to put up either the resistance or the force that’s necessary to defeat the bigger meta contenders.
Sid Meier once said that a game is a series of interesting choices. By that measure, modern yugioh might as well not be a game at all because you have 1 singular choice and 1 choice only,
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME!
This is perhaps one of the biggest reasons why I'm such a fan of Vaalmonica because while they aren't in the top tiers they are at least rogue relying on just two card combos but are relative to each other so you can branch into your standard plays. White Woods to is quite similar in regards to having a bunch of two card combos that kind of bridge into each other. Not to mention these decks by nature want to run less non-engine to ensure that they consistently go to their gameplan which is another design benefit.
Imagine a meta where every deck is at most only running 7-10 handtraps, I would like that.
Too bad White Woods shuts off all use of Pendulum Scales with a walking floodgate and Calamity Locks with Centur-Ion cards, meaning run 20 hand traps or White Woods will kill you on sight.
I miss when the normal summon was super important, and once you committed that you were vulnerable to interaction hitting a chokepoint. Back when "one card starter" meant a single high impact normal summon and not "you can open with five of these and just play through everything".
Player 1: Normal Summon starter
Player 2: Hand Trap
Player 2: OTK opponent
The normal summon resource dont matter when most decks can operate without even normal summoning
Special summon decks can do 20 summons each turn.
Man I love when decks have 14 copies of their 1 card combo.
They will not outright ban Snake-eyes since they are like Branded, the main multi set archetype that has a set that either introduces a new archetype from their story or supports older released archetypes.
The last banlist only pushed out all the Synchro decks like Mannadium or Superheavy Samurai out of the meta, as they lost their key cards of Baronne and Savage, with now only Tenpai left as one of the other options against Diabelstarr engine decks.
Best you can hope for in the next banlist is limit Wanted, Diabellstar and Ash to 1 since they are the main contributers to the Fire format.
bro mannadium and superheavy samurai meta?
There's no reason to touch Diabellstar at all. Ban Original Sinful Spoils and either limit or semi-limit SE Ash so that you actually have to tech in more cards to kickstart their engine.
Found the master duel player lol. TCG actually bans cards, so its a very real possibility that snake eyes recieves a noticiable ban at some point
@@saniblues-5013 True, but hitting Diabellstar and SE ASH to 1 is much more in line on OCG philosophy of going after consistency cards. Banning OSS just kills off the Diabellstar package on Fire decks, which is already in decline thanks to the introduction of Fiendsmith. Also, there will be more Diabellstar support and it may still revolve around Snake Eyes, soo I would not count on OSS being banned just yet.
@@indescrepit9973
No it doesn't.
And when they do they ban things that fuck over people who DON'T play the meta stuff.
The only reason decks can still have any bit of consistency while playing so many hand traps is one card combos. I've been saying for years that one card combos are a problem but everyone called me a yugiboomer. I love that all my "terrible" takes from the past several years have only proven to be correct as time goes on.
The problem is how good the one card combos are. Imo it's good that you can always do something with only 1 card, but you shouldn't be able to do stuff like summon Red Supernova Dragon + set Red Zone with 1 card.
The difference between something like Aleister one card combos and snake eye is night and day though.
@@dudono1744 talking about how good 1 card combos are, uses the worst, least competitive example ever, that also isn't good.
Amazing.
@@dudono1744 Supernova + Red Zone is a mega mid board. RDA is a good example of one card combos done right.
skill issue yugiboomer
You may have missed that not only do one card combos force you to play a bunch of hand traps, they also LET you play a bunch of hand traps because of your own combo’s consistency.
That's why the best counter to snake-eyes is snake-eyes
1 card combos are the reasons why handtraps run rampant and why you’re forced to run a million of them. It’s depressing.
wrong, even decks that don't have 1 card combos run handtraps it just makes it easier, just look at drytron they still run 12+ handtraps yet doesn't have a single 1 card combo
And because of handtraps they started to made one card combos who end up in 3 boss monsters instead of just a Dante or singular shadoll fusion.
@@justawarlord 🧢 drytron has like 6 nonengine space max
IMO one-cards are fine as long as they aren’t also extenders that essentially blank a handtrap.
Something like TOSS format Orcust, where you had one-cards like Arma Knight / Mathmetician / Recycler, and still ended on a very strong board for the time, still didn’t feel oppressive. As the opponent, depending on your hand, you could try and stop the one-card and hope for the best, or try and hit a lower-impact but harder-to-play-through chokepoint further down the line. There was skill in anticipating how the gamestate would change depending on where you interacted. With Snake Eye, it’s often just a question of whether you have more engine than the opponent has handtraps - it’s rare that you have to adjust to interactions in unique ways, as you usually either have a way to push to something resembling full combo or end up passing on very little with a bunch of handtraps of your own.
I wouldnt mind 1 card combos that much, if you actually had to play a ton of engine for those combos to work. Having space for 20 non engine while also having 1 card combos that end on everything is just super toxic
not only the onecard combos are the problem, links are also part of the problem, you can take 2 negated bodies, link and keep playing
As opposed to immediately forfeiting because you *WILL* die otherwise?
We need more decks that have completely different combo lines and end board depending on your starting hand. I play the new Shining Sarc deck, and it's fun that you can either do a big Gandora play if you open it + Ebony DM with Shining Sarc (to end on a fusion + spell negate), or do a simple Ties play (to end on a spell, monster, and targeting negate).
There's a fair number of decks like that, but they go completely under the radar because they aren't competitive. It's practically impossible to design a competitive yugioh archetype that doesn't have powerful one card combos and doesn't go through linear combos now. Decks are just so crazy efficient and streamlined, that there's no other way for them to be competitive. Yugioh archetypes have hit critical mass on powercreep. Barring the insane stuff like Ishizu-Tearlaments.
A lot of decks are like that actually, they just get brushed off as bad. It's in my opinion the correct direction for modernized plays but they never get a chance to shine
@@spyro2002glad someone gets it
So more kashtira lol. If I draw Kash tear or the normal spell opening I'm dropping a second ira plus using a level 7 Kaiju to go into either a level 10 synchro, or 7xyz depending on what I mill
@@quint2568 I don't mean like that, where you end on slightly different or better boards. I'm talking about decks where most or all of your combo _and_ end board are different.
It's funny how people complain about Lab when it doesn't let them play but no one talks about one card combo decks and how can they use +15 hand traps. People only likes the game when their one card combo works and summons 3 negates + handtraps + 4 cards in hand + summon even more in opponents turn. Konami needs to diverse the game a little bit more.
Exactly!
And lab isn't even that good. A hand trap can easily screw them over and if you run backrow removal like you should anyways it's even less of a problem. I'll admit it is bull to go against if they run dimension since you auto lose if you play an archetype that relies on fusions, synchros, or xyz mainly to get their lines.
One-card combos have been a thing for many decks, but snake-eyes (and mathmech) have many one-card combos that still lead to the full exact same combo even if one or several of the other one-card combos get stopped.
A lot of players in LATAM have stopped taking part in Ygo tournaments, and have moved into other games (Digimon, PTCG, OPTCG). I guess this is just a sympthom caused by something that began when the got the January '24 banlist.
As someone who quit YGO and went to OPTCG (and am extremely glad I did that) I can tell you that it's probably not a simple banlist reaction, but a general dissatisfaction with YGO and what it has become: Diceroll roulette -> 1 card combo + handtrap roulette -> repeat and even if you win said roulettes you won nothing in terms of prizing.
Am not from LATAM though so can only speak for myself and my friends, none of us are probably ever going back to YGO.
@@Lessonius I'm from there though (There's even a YCS on my country in 4 months), and I'm sure is a symptom of a lot of stuff: Decks costing more than the minimum monthly wage, one card combos, handtrap go-fish minigame and in general just poor gameplay experience. Unlike in USA or Canada we just can't really afford to sunk any more cost on a card game.
N12015 is right, in my case i left the game before that banlist, since Tear format i've seen locals die and prices get high, i know high prices are nothing strange to YGO but what happens is that no one will pay more than the minimum wage just to MAYBE play, you can just move on to another TCG and know for sure you can get your money's worth and more important you can PLAY. On the other hand, tournament prices rarely pay off, if ever so... why even bother? MTG locals do this thing where they give you store credit if you do well, maybe that could be a solution to get more people back into playing BUT that doesn't fix the gameplay itself and at the end of the day that's why i left but that's just a matter of preference on my part. MTG lets me play "Dinomorphia" for less money, no floodgates and without risking someone raging at me because of my deck choice. I like to believe that YGO can be "fixed" if Konami puts alternate formats on the spotligh and develops them but idk
@@isaiahaldhafera9752 If I had to guess is because rogue gets overly punished by handtrap spam. It was only expensive to play meta, but you could play suboptimal, but now the gap is just too large due to all the disruption going around so you don't get to play period. And btw, I was talking about minimum wage in my country who is around 600 USD (double the average), still less than a Snake-eye set and kinda like a Tear set.
The game has always been in a not fun place. First it was biggest beater, then it went into weaker effect monsters, then it went into more combo, then it became more efficient combo, then hand traps, then one-card combos. The game being stuffed with feel bad cards like Dark Hole and Harpie’s Feather duster, Confiscate, Delinquent Duo, Change of Heart, etcetera to break hard established boards was also bad with bans being more of a reaction than anything. It’s just the way the game.
Maybe. We can start printing stronger board breakers to allow for a comeback mechanic.
Dark Ruler No More is the perfect example to me. Giving player 2 a chance to comeback after his 3 hand traps failed to stop a combo. But it doesn't let you otk either.
Maybe if we print more cards like Dark Ruler No More, for different situations. That way we can allow other decks to fight back after an SE combo goes full throttle uninterrupted.
The problem is not one card combo, many deck has one card combo. Synchron is one card combo who ends on negates endboard.
The problem exist when that one card combo also doubles as extender.
Did you see that Snake Eye vs 4 handtraps video? It really shows how broken SE is when every card can be a starter and extender.
Also Synchron needs a lot of specific cards in deck. Which can be bricks, but also limit space for non-engine, so you can't play 20 handtraps.
Synchron has a few powerful one-card combos, but is still fair since there's a noticable trade-off
I play the diabellstar version of the deck because I thought you play her and sling her spell and traps towards the enemy and control the game. Snake eyes only for paying her cost to stay on field. It is super fun (no bonfire , no snake eye but with 3 poplar). It is one of the most engaging and fun decks I have played. But without the snake eye, the deck is mid at best. Because she is the only piece that is present at the board, you rarely can go into extra deck or do crazy combos, which is fine, but we need better spells for her. Unfortunately I see wanted/original being limited/banned and this without any support is pretty much the death of my spellcaster commander vibe deck. Very fun. I lose more than I win but man absolute worth it. Buz yes I do agree, the cards without snake eyes are fair. I splashed 1x oak, 1x ash and 1x flamberge just to have access to my extra deck.
13:17 yes, and it was rescue ace hydrant that they summoned instead which might be even worse to play against. I also want original sinful spoils - snake eye to get banned as I think that would be more fun than limiting/banning all the snake eye cards. Also probably takes away the need to limit Wanted which hurts new potential Diabellstar archtypes like White Woods. Limit 1 festival just felt like a complete solitaire fest as all the hand traps and board breakers were also limited.
i really wish they never printed the snake eye stuff (or at least remove poplar/princess/flameberge etc. diabbelstar should've been fire king support !)
I like the taste of the glue with sparkles.
Decks do too much turn 1 -> handtraps need to exist -> decks need to be resilient to disruptions -> decks do too much turn 1 -> we need more handtraps
How long can we keep this cycle until it implodes on itself?
Probably for a little while longer before the bubble bursts that forces yugioh into an actual reboot not a half hearted one like Rush
@@michaelkehaRush Duel is a take every card away from everyone, burn them, and rewrite the rules from scratch complete hard reboot. Are you thinking of Duel Links/Speed Duels?
@@autobotstarscream765 I consider it half hearted because it's kept in the OCG and duel links they haven't actually committed to it properly
@@michaelkeha You mean your actual problem is that they don't release and support physical Rush Duel product in gaijin territory because they hate us? Yeah, that's pretty much how everyone feels right now.
@@autobotstarscream765 it's why I consider it a half hearted reboot since only one territory got it and the rest of the world is still playing the normal game not much of a reboot if you don't release it to everyone else and you keep printing and supporting the other game anyway
A deck of several small engine systems and 15+ hand traps is not healthy.(like snake eye,you can add Fire King, kashtira,which are not independent from the main Snake Eye engine because they can facilitate your combo and resist hand traps). Those decks with big engines will be hard to survive in future because you have to take many trash in your deck and you can only take less hand traps,such as Branded,all of trash cards you put in your deck is just to find Branded Fusion 😂
I think 1 card combos are fine if the ceiling is low. The problem is 1 Card combos that generate 6 interruptions with tons of follow up.
The point about the relief you feel when Sinful Spoils doesn’t summon Ash is so true. I like the card design on those (minus Wanted getting to search AND draw in the same turn), but with SE it’s just too much.
That's the thing, it really all goes back to how yugioh be built. One card combos were created because handtraps was too strong because huge combos were too strong and these are to some degree all streamlined and clear cut interactions and i don't know if konami want to fix this.
And i forgot about how links enable this to the nth degree
@@duduvec5971 Maybe removing links from the game? Seriously, they just don't fit YGO's gameplay.
@N12015 Once a Summoning method is introduced into the game, it can be curtailed but is never removed from the game other than by rebooting the entire game (Speed Duel, Rush Duel, Dungeon Dice Monsters, Capsule Monster Colosseum).
*Post-modern Design*
We need more decks like tearlament and labrynth that are designed to not only require a lot of engine in order to play the game, but also have the ability to play reactively. I'd prefer if the decks could also play on the opponent's first turn, even though I know that a lot of players dislike that, I don't see how it'd be possible for this game to advance in a healthy state without that type of card design, barring a massive banlist or new master rule that somehow completely changes the dynamic of yugioh as a whole. I'd also love to see more cards that actually require your opponent to play the game or have played the game in order to get full value, something like tearlaments havnis (my favorite card design in the history of the game for that reason), or even just cards like the furniture pieces/cooclock and tearlaments kashtira that allow a deck to play some of their engine on the opponent's first turn instead of needing to wait for the opponent to finish their 40-part combo in order to begin playing the following turn.
*Hand traps in modern yugioh*
Personally, I don't like the dynamic that handtraps introduce in the meta of yugioh. They feel more like gatekeepers than anything else. Deck's are only meta when they can play around handtraps extremely well, and if meta decks can play around handtraps extremely well.... then what's the point of hand traps? Just play boardbreakers at that point instead of gambling that the opponent doesn't have the out or extender. I aknowledge that if all hand traps suddenly got banned then some extremely toxic decks would suddenly become playable, like hero that gets to end on a one-sided macro cosmos, skill drain, and sometimes also an imperial order, but those decks would immediately get hit if that was the case.
*What if we remove the problem cards?*
Since I've heard many-a yugioh player use this argument in the past: Yugioh doesn't exist in a constant state - making the argument "If X didn't exist then Y deck would be broken" isn't valid, because even if that was the case for a period of time, the ban list would simply update to fix it (and even in those scenarios hopefully konami would have the foresight to pre-hit stuff like that). Now of course making change for the sake of change isn't a good reason to do it, but if Konami thinks they might be able to move the game in a better direction long-term I'd be more than happy to sit through a couple of terrible formats.
the first point I absolutely agree with and honestly, in my opinion, it would also kinda fix the problem with 15+ hand traps since you can't fit many of them anyway
The most efficient way to get lots of decks to play on turn 0 would be to release semi generic turn 0 cards (for example, a card that enables turn 0 plays for machine decks). This avoid needing thousands of new cards and should cover 95% of decks, the 5 remaining percent being ungodly pile decks and archetypes that don't work well with the turn 0 cards they're supposed to use (for example, SHS could have that issue if the support is made of traps).
this is why i love R-Ace, you have your combo and endboard but you get the best of the deck only if your opponent also play the game
@@dudono1744that how you end with isolde,electrum and halq 2.0
It's honestly crazy how many decks have cards that do more if, or even REQUIRE the opponent to have things on the field to actually do anything, but even in those cases people would rather run bricky hand traps than take advantage of those consistency bonuses. That should clue people in on how much of a problem it is that strong end boards are so easy to make nowadays.
1 card combos are cool when they have lower ceiling that gets backed up by non engine. The issue rn is that 1 card combos are doing everything (like at least Mathmech it was just OTK).
Mathmech only otk? are you high? Mathmech ends on one S/T negate, one omni, and one pop + handloop. All of them you can't really interact with in most main decks.
Just like everything else in Yugioh, not all 1 card combos are created equally. Normal Aliester is a joke compared to what your normal summon is expected to lead into these days.
Pokemon is a testament of how consistency isn't the problem in a card game. You can have cards that are literally double Graceful Charity. The problem lies in that consistency winning you the game on the spot, an issue exclusive to Yugioh. Save for some kind of fundamental rule change, I don't see a way to fix it. Konami can ban Ash or Spoils, but those are just symptoms, not the actual disease.
Pokemon is not as balanced as you think. HP basics powercreep is absurd and so is the meta. You cant play non EX GX decks anymore. Rotation also kills any strategy after 2years (lets be real 6months).
No side deck is terrible imo.
Only 3 good decks in any meta is also boring af compared to ygos 20meta decks and like 100rogue decks
There is not that many competitive decks in yugioh right now at least not those numbers above. I would love to see these 20 meta decks or 100 rouge decks play against snake-eyes or voiceless voice there’s a few more but to say that there’s a lot of decks people can play with out the massive handicap is naive.
@@Salvo_117 look at any event top cuts. 50 percent is always random. And the others are like 6 different decks which are all build very differently with different engines and extradecks etc.
Yes rogue has handicap. But the gap isnt like 2017 19 anymore.
Rogue decks do win. Just not 12rounds in a row usually.
You cant have 20tier 1 decks. But we definitely have 20decks viable in tiers the rest is rogue.
Also pokemon is boring because theres no interaction and you cant COOK
@@幽霊船-o4h Man tf U saying? No EX/GX decks? What's Ancient Box then?
@@Ghsbr not viable
When might be the first Link 0 coming? Or a Starter that just materializes out of the deck?
Phantom of Yubel, Vicious Astroloud, Ritual Beast Ulti-Nochiudrago
As long as you don't commit to normal summon, things like Unexpected Dai (Loci / White Duston for Fiendsmith) or Origin works like it
Close example would be the lvl 5 charmer companions, mainly "Awakening of the possessed: Nefarious Archfiend" for Selene shenanigans (But you need to commit first, I know)
That is basically Fenrir if you think about it,and it banishes card face down LOL
Love your discussion, BUT we have to first look at "Why" from Konami perspective!! We have plenty of FAIR non-1CardCombo archetypes but nobody cares because to our surprise...... it's WEAK and we dont appreciate fair card design, we cant lower Power Level anyway. If we want non-negation board and still being "Meta" we have to deal with +8 cards resource. The latest card design aims at shifting a bit away from Ash, Imperm perspective is our latest Tenpai with unaffected field => so as we play more Ghost Ogre (And we still hate it because of its non-interaction...) . There's no actual perfect solution right now 😅 I hate how i turns out and Konami's way of card design, but just enjoy what we have for now I guess
Lorcana added it's FIRST search card in the set that released last week, and it searches for another Madrigal card (from Encanto) to place on top of your deck. The thing is, there are MANY Madrigal cards that came from this set and in draft format youre not bound by mana color so it feels the most genuine searching for a card based on the situation you need to overcome rather than searching for one thing and one thing only.
Thats the problem with modern yugioh. The newer meta relevant decks aren't creative or skillful. You really have no choice on your actions and all effects do one linear thing. Sure, you can search ANY level 1 fire monster with Ash, but you will never EVER add anything else but poplar. Sure, you could add ANY fire dragon with paidra, but you'll only ever add chundra. Theres NO skill expression or problem solving. Its literally like memorizing the answers for a test rather than actually studying the content to understand how to arrive at the answers.
A one card combo I can think of that is fair is cyberdark horizon. It can start up your entire process fir cyberdark end dragon which is a disgustingly powerful card, but its not an instant win. You still need a good hand to pull it off and it takes over half your avaliable monsters to summon. If it gets outed then you cant just bring it back with one card (monster reborn aside ofc) and it has big weaknesses to handle. Theres a combo with a buster blader card that stops your opponent from accessing the extra deck but that is incredibly hard to do and *will* always take 2 turns minimum unless your opponent mills it from your deck to be equipped. Cyberdark has no fancy costless omni-negates and while powerful, the boss monsters are stoppable.
Holy crap I’m not the only one who’s been feeling this way as of late.
I think one card combos are fine, but only if the combo is not linear. For example Tearlaments, Perlereino/Reinoheart is a one card combo to get to Kitkallos (I only play MD btw) but what you add (or send) using her depends completely on the rest of your hand, if Maxx C is active, etc. and then the random mills dictate what else you get to do in your turn. When the combo is completely linear and deviation leads to a less powerful endboard, that's when 1 card combos get boring. Also these kind of deck are usually handtrap heavy and the handtrap wars can get boring pretty fast.
Honestly the issue isn't the hand traps, they're fine. This is like old Yu-Gi-Oh where you have traps to stop your opponent's plays. The issue is, unlike with old Yu-Gi-Oh, if you do not have enough traps, the game is pretty much over. That makes it so that the games are kind of back and forth but only until one player resolves an effect and then it's GG. This also means you can't play more strategically with your disruptions since you have to negate certain stuff.
The reason one card combo's are a problem is not because of the concept of a one card combo itself, but the actual real end boards they can produce in the modern day. Pretty much any good deck can produce ridiculous end boards now if unchecked, from just a single starter card. Many of which consist of broken generic boss monsters. The reason you need 15 hand traps in your deck is because you will lose if you let a deck actually play to their ideal end board. You have to interrupt it, otherwise you simply won't be able to play on your turn.
End boards need to be nerfed. If you nerf the end boards then comboing in and of itself gets nerfed by proxy, as the reward level for the combo's goes down. If you nerf comboing by proxy, then 1 card combo's are obviously also nerfed and less of a problem. If you nerf the end board, you wont have to fear your opponent ending on 5+ interactions with monsters you can barely swing over if you don't have 5+ interactions yourself turn 1.
If the end boards in the games were actually reasonable and manageable by a turn 2 player, you would not see a need for excessive interruptions in the game. We need to get rid of broken generic end boards that can just stunlock your opponent if you get to do your combo.
Yeah master duel going second is pretty much “did I draw a hand trap?”, if the answer is no, you then have to scoop because you aren’t going to play thorough apollos 4 negates, baron negate, plus whatever other hand traps they also have.
@@cheryltunt6934 You can get rid of 2 of those things in one Super Poly which then protects the rest of your plays from targeting, guess which ones those are? The ones on the field. There's a reason Baronne + Apollousa is NOT a good end board against any deck with a generic or Fusion ED. You can also chain things like Droplet and Solemn Strike to deal with monsters on the field when using Spells or Traps respectively. You know what those cards are LESS useful against? Hand Traps.
It all comes down in the end to hand traps being a huge annoyance that helps the starting player more than it hinders them. It's never just been about Maxx "C", it's always been about the hand traps it draws into that make you fight a board at the same time as hindering your attempts at making one.
That's true. In addition, if you don't interrupt your opponent, you have to wait 5 minutes before your turn. This is not fun.
There were plenty of turns for both players to win. I think snake eye is a balancer deck meaning it conforms the format
THANK YOU, I’ve been saying this. SE Ash is the problem card. Wanted is fine for other decks like Infernoid, Noble Knights, Boxers, etc.
Ash might get hit to 1 next list, but that card needs to go eventually.
Ban flamberge or field spell, thats a start. Maybe even ban oak
Banning Oak would only delay the inevitable
personally i dont feel relief when i dont see original into ash because in my experience it's usually been into hydrant which i know isnt as powerful, but if they got that far and i didnt interrupt it's already too late let's be honest
im going to face the same board but backed by backrow
Genuinely some of the best games i've had in MD recently have been because I've been playing Rescue Ace Diabellstar, and I've had a lot of opponents stick through the games as well. I like to think the opponents are enjoying the breath of fresh air as well and having a lot more points of interaction and decision making instead of just waiting to see the Ash. I've got no real evidence for this other than far fewer early concessions, but i'unno. Seems to be the case.
I play a small snake-eye engine with volcanic (2 ash, 1 oak, 1 poplar, 1 birch , 2 OSS , 1 flamberge , 1 SE diabel , 1 field ) and it's insane the amount of ressources it gives me with only 10 cards
When I play against Snake Eyes, it feels like one card does everything the deck needs it to do including grabbing another one card that does everything. Turn two comes around and if you don’t have the right tech in hand, you’re just waffling and anything you do just starts them again but on your turn.
What if they limit every hand trap to 1? It might actually force people to play. Otherwise its either start with 1 card combo, or use an entire hand of hand traps to disrupt your opponent until you pull your 1 card combo........
IMO, dragonlink was and still is the perfect combo deck in terms of where yugioh should be, flexible in its engine to allow it to constantly adapt and allow for deck building talent to show, it has 1 card combos but they end on very little, mostly a couple interupts and follow up, but you can continue to invest into that endboard to make it bigger at the cost of resources so there are decision trees in how far you want to push depending on what your playing against. Also it has no hard bricks, hard bricks suck to play, soft bricks also suck to open but the fact theyre still playable makes them fine. and no 1 card in the deck (minus chaos space) generates too much advantage to not consider whether to interupt it or hold.
Ofcourse varients of dlink like halqcross aren't what im talking about but theres a reason it was meta for like 4 years (still playable now) and yet had very few complaints laid against it
Pachinkomoney hates Dragon Link with the burning passion of 1,000 suns and is constantly banhammering it out of existence.
If they happen to not ban Flamberge and only semi-limit Ash when they do address the deck, I'll probably pick up "pure" Snake-Eye as a fun deck. It may be/continue to be meta, but its still got neat lines that I think look cool as hell
Snake eyes is unironically the reason I picked up runick fiendsmith magical musketeer. I literally searched every card that can banish and I invested all of it into hate. Now with the latest support for galaxy im hating even more by running ftks for it bc I swear our handtraps do jack to them, but they do everything even to other meta decks.
Hey Joshua, how do you feel about players just not going for game. For example, I could have an empty board or one face up defense monster that is beatable with no effect and the opponent could have game with the monsters they have on the field when comparing the total damage they can cause to my life points. Instead of going into battle phase and ending the game, it feels like so many players are either bming or just not aware that they don't need to try to do a 10 card combo of removing and special summoning and syncho, xyz, link summoning, all these extra steps just to end the game. I find it pretty annoying for the most part, but how do you feel about it and why do you think players do that?
skill issues
This happens very often in MD. People over extend for absolutely no reason, and in a few cases I have been able to punish them by using Nibiru, if they had just attacked they would have won. Literal skill issue. Is understandable if they want to have a negate to avoid losing to something like a bystial on the battle phase, but it happens even when you are at zero cards, also it happens most often with Kashtira, a deck famous for not having negates.
This is why I love playing Branded with my only hand traps being 2 Bystials and 1 Tri-Brigade Merc.
That’s it. 40 cards. I literally have time to eat my food while my opponent plays their combo game 1 😂 It’s amazing. I can just watch them set up and then when I go, it’s time to break the board.
One card combos are fine, but only if the engine is big enough so you cant play 15 hand traps or the enboard is not oppressive enough
next is the consistency of the one card combo which is not the most important but also not an irrelevant point.
On the topic of SE - I hope they dont hit Original or the Diabelstar line too much, cause they clearly want to connect her to other decks, maybe not as extensive as Visas but they want to do more as we see somewhat with GoblinBiker and White Woods. For SE the issue is one poplar and one Flamberge are kinda enough, but if they lose one of them, idk how much they can still ball - not the biggest expert on the deck tbh. - but I think this has to be the angle, cause the advantage both create is absolutely insane and is the problem.
Josh mentioned it at the later half as well, the card advantage being generated by just normal summon SE Ash and its not Ash - "Ash is just a Stratos" but then its Poplar who goes plus X and Flamberge later for plus Y. Maybe you guys in the comments have some good ideas?
Alternatively unbann Ishizu Tear and no one will play Snake Eye anyway ^^
1card combos are fine.
1card combo that ends on a full 10card board with 5 cards in hand 2 handrips, full recovery is too much.
Because no matter what happens if one thing goes through nothing mattered what u interrupted.
1 card combo into 2negates and maybe 3 cards on field that do something but ni recovery is fine imo like older meta decks
this reminds me the blue eyes mirror nationals
I don't believe for one second that the regular winners are there because they are skilled. I think they've learned how to stack their shuffles, which is why they win far more consistently than they should.
Give 3 different effects to every single card of an archtype and they're broken? Crazy
That’s why marincess and saladmangreat are decent decks. They can play a lot of handtraps and set up decent boards while adding back the starter. If you get ur field cracked u can play still
I feel the problem isn't the one card combo here, at least not entirely. I play Centur-ion Horus, Centur-ion can start with the terrain, Emblema, Primera or Trudea. If Primera is stunned after her effect, she cannot be special summoned for the rest of the turn. If Emblema is used, and the card still on the board, you cannot do anything other than a Centurion Extra deck monster. Yes we play Calamity and yes this card should be banned. But the reason we play this is because going to another card like Cristal Wing or Blazar is considered "bad" because it's only one negate.
SE should have had a lock like this, either "you can only summon fire monsters until the end of the turn" so that a Omega/Dis Pater auto win combo T1 or a Zealantis ban field trigger Promethean trigger Phoenix you lose well play gg could'nt be made. It's a fire deck that plays way to many non fire powerful cards. I don't know, it's really not healthy. Prices are like so dumb right now. SP is still so high priced.
For me the real problem is the number of effect every SE/SS cards have, with so little/none restrictions, and the power of those effects. Like Flamberge can send any cards the player wants to the backrow and next turn it will be his card + can summon two monsters from the graveyard if he touches the gy by any way. It's not like when only destroyed, it works when they link, it works when it's in the backrow, it works everytime. this is just so dumb, the cards re-summoned can also use their effects, the spells are way too strong, the fact they printed a Bonfire is ridiculous considering it was not a limited card on release when a Reinforcement of the Army has been limited for so long. We know Konami does this because stonks high prices high chased cards, shortprints.
So now they are at a state where either they hard hit SE but take the risk of seeing player leave the game because after spending an entire salary in their deck they cannot play it, or do little hit by little hit and we will see this format for 6 months again. Also this fucking extra deck is way too toxic. Ending on a board with Apo 3, Flamberge, Ip to SP, Promethean Princess on GY, Raging Phoeniw on GY. Raigeki it and the board is even stronger. Also the monster reborn from Promethean is just way too much.
I feel bullied by this deck.
Maybe Konami needs to unlimit more of the board breakers like Heavy storm, Giant Trunade, Raigeki, etc. to encourage people to approach the game from a different angle. Decks being half of hand traps is lame, but the alternatives aren't that great.
Boardbreakers suck when going 1st (Unless fking Fenrir, God I hate that card); several times my only play was to set 1 (Unchained), pass, cause 2 Lava golem, Evenly and TTT, or a similar ratio of boardbreakers... while if drawing Gamma or Nib, while weaker in comparison, it feels safer to deal with opponent's shenanigans
Was a fan of 3 Dark hole at some point too, but again, it's impact isn't enough unless you're pushing for game
S/T board breakers are extremely unhealthy (please ban Duster and Lightning Storm ffs), and they don't hit what you would want them to hit, also Giant Trunade is not solely banned for its board breaker role but because you can also abuse it by bouncing your own stuff.
For board breakers that hit monsters, nearly everything you could hope for is legal (Raigeki, Dark Hole, Droplet, E-Con, Mind Con, TTT at 3, CoH and Snatch Steal at 1, etc), the issue is that not only they're not good going first, but they don't deal effectively with what Snake-Eye produces in terms of board, gy, hand. Breaking a board isn't enough if you leave your opponent with 2-3 HTs, Flamberge triggering in GY getting 2 bodies that search, still having Promethean, and follow-up.
@@drianna75 I know the feel of getting Duster for 5 and Welcome Lab being Ash'd on top of it... but boardbreakers are far from unhealthy (Except Evenly... trading +5 for 1 card isn't "even"), even stuff like DRNM & Lava golem has restrictions on them, and, again, are useless turn 1
@@Jyxero S/T breakers are unhealthy because traps are reactive and can't really be protected effectively, there's literally nothing you can do (except having Solemn or Anti-Spell lol), whereas you can definitely play monster-based deck and play around board breakers
@@drianna75 Fair enough
Activate circular sending sigma. Response?
I surrender.
D.D Crow
@@Liliana_the_ghost_cat Addition, Alembert gets Ash'd then normal summon Diameter...
Ban anima would be an interesting hit. Finish what was started on the last banlist.
And release a link 1 who asks for light / dark lvl 1... I feel bad for BE and Skull servant already without Linkuriboh
Fine, I'll put salamangreat almiraj in my extra deck.
@@Ragnarok540 Isn't as efficient, Poplar is the one that is used for link, not Ash, and remember, must be a normal summon
I think heavy hand trap formats are still better than deck winning in one turn
Circular isn't even a problem at this point in the meta..
because he's banned
Circular is still a custom card
@SkyllerSY, I definitely could have phrased my comment more succintly.
What I meant to say, was:
"Circular wouldn't be a problem in this meta, even if he were un-banned."
My thought process is based on my arbitrary observation of its presence in the Master Duel ladder. But hey, that's better than nothing.
@@SkyllerSYOh please even before it's ban Mathmech wasn't even doing anything either. Let's be honest here the German top player didn't like the card so mindless dick riding sheep of a community flocked towards his opinion that's it.
It wasn't even when it got banned let's be fair. The deck at that point in time hadn't topped an event in months
My guy josh going bald af sheesh
That comb over in a windy day lol
This comment was out of pocket... 😂
I know this video isn't meant to be a meme, but the thumbnail and title really makes it seem like a meme.
I've been saying this since the day they started making one card combos in a game with 0 resources and a 20 card starting hand. It's absolutely ridiculous to think this is where the game has gone
The root of all problems are handtraps and link summon
the flamberge ban makes way more sense then the OSS ban, it hurts only pure snake eye and leaves all the other decks with a lvl 1 fire that play diabelle star untouched. Flamberge TBH feels the most unfair cause his form of removal just feels so broken and not even to mention the fact hes a mini soul charge
One deck i like playing wirh is using original sinful spoils to summon rhe lvl 1 fire Evolzar and ending on ultimate conductor tyrano, the rank 6 Evo with the Hot red dragon negate, and possibly a lagia or dolka.
Because two and a half card combos are so fun. Lol
And Aluber always searches Fusion.
13:09 is fckin real. Thats when you realize that stupid snake-eyes archetype was a mistakes.
I agree
Ive been against one card combos from a card design perspective for a while. It turhs yugioh into flow chart the game. You play one card and you know the rest of your turn. Thats why i liked tear format or like playing lightsworn. You need to be able to pivot or improvise based on a lot of constantly changing variables.
Also, why i think synchron is cool with hyper librarian.
I'd disagree i feel limits in snake eye ash and wanted is exactly what the deck needs.
I think its a problem because decks have too much room for all these hand traps rather than needing archtype cards for a deck to function
Hey, but ashened gets a freaking continuos trap to fuse and pyro lock...
Semi limit all the good hand traps I think it’s time for some sort of hit for hand traps.
if you remove handtraps you will see more multi archetypes decks, what do you prefer? the problem are not the handtraps, any deck should have multiple ways to starts and follow after 1 handtrap, for example branded , the meme of ashing B Fusion doesnt applyed anymore, the problem is konami keep forgetting old decks and keep pushing selling product and doenst care about balancing and making the game fair for all decks, the handtraps its the way they choose to fix this but its not enough
@@jdanilozuluagap2981 semi limit not ban
Then if you go 2nd you have to wait 5 minutes before you can play, or just surrender because you won't get your turn. This game sucks.
@@jdanilozuluagap2981while hand traps arent a problem on their own and are healthy, issue is when there is such a critical amount of them that there is toxic decks like tenpai that are basically just an engine for a handtrap.deck.
We have 3 versions of imperm/veiler that just say "negate a monster on the field" which are not healthy nor interesting for the game in the slightest. Hand traps are also not just there to help the going 2nd player, they are also essentially end board pieces. If ur opponent makes a board the ash blossom and imperm are basically 2 additional disruptions.
Cutting down on the amount of hand traps would improve the game.
Edit: Also people's defense of hand traps as a going 2nd tool because it "keeps combo decks in check" is oddly similar to people's defense of maxx "c"
@@idkdontask7142 about tenpai we both agree is a lazy design archetype and its unhealthy we just cannot remove handtraps for that since we must think further and ask ourselfs are all deck in the same capacity of compete? the problem with handtraps im agree its that when you have to face a board they increase in power and become a little too much , we also agree that we should cut the repeat ones imperm/veiler/ mourner , but the purpose of a handtrap is that you see them in your initial hand otherwise it has no sense , so i dont think if we can semi limited or cutting down , its too hard to balance this game, i prefer attacking the end boards ; the cards do some much and the players will always wanna play all his deck
The current format is the exact same as the Firewall FTK format. If your opponent full combos you lose. Normal summon Armageddon Knight response?
Aka why i still play dinos at my locals
We love 2 card combos
Agreed on the limit 1 festival. It was just a headache.
The real issue is the only deck really worth playing is Snake-Eyes. The banlist as currently constructed hurts too many archetypes far too much and all the new archetypes from LEDE are either mid or sacky filler that players convinced(lied to) themselves about how they would impact the format. If Konami of America would stop being such scumbags and stop taking away all other options(so that players aren't railroaded into only playing whatever they design to sell for 6-8 months) and hit problematic turn enders like Droll, Shifter, DeckLock, and (maybe) DimBar. Another idea, would be they give us more answers to turn enders like Upping the amount of Called By's and Gammas(should prolly ban omega since the handlooping is broken) and maybe we'd actually have an interesting format.
Try Dino FTK.
@@michaelloveless243 As someone who owns a Dino deck, knows a good bit of the ins and out, and plays them, don't ever recommend anyone that dumb, sacky garbage idea again.
With all the critical mass of handtraps floating around your deck space to counter them is very limited, ftk variants die to both nib and droll(the good variants only die to one or neither), and lastly you brick twice as hard. I'm sure the 2 minutes it took me to recognize that deck's blaring issues never crossed your mind though.
@UncleJrueForTue I was ranked 22nd on Dueling Nexus with Dino FTK. It's my own build and can FTK through 3 hand traps. If you can pop a baby, you can ftk.
@@michaelloveless243You mean Going First Scrap Calamity Lock, right?
@autobotstarscream765 Nope. I mean FTK. Opponent doesn't get a turn at all. I have a video of it I think
None of this would've happened if Josh shut his mouth about Mathmech Circular
In fact, he didn't need that, because circular was really a problem. One card combo +2 without normal summon
Circular was this close to becoming AIDS with the release of Vaalmonica. Scales 3 and 5 to summon Level 4, which is every Mathmech, and two Big Chungus Link-1s that make a solid V-Link with Singularity, hope your Deck didn't need any Link or Pendulum Monsters or you can't play under Jeff Lock 2.0!
Snake eyes was a problem and still is a problem . The ban list didn’t do anything .
I’m just so tired of playing against a deck that can’t be stopped. I’ve played against snake eye and drawn all hand traps it still ends on a full board so wtf can you do
Both snake eyes and horus just do too much with little cost. Konami keep making these searcher cards too op.
Yugioh wasnt meant to have the game to end before 3 turns
Joshua Runick.
I only uses Wanted, Diabelle and OSS for my infernoble deck.