Why Centre is against legalising queer marriage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- "We used to treat even this as far-fetched." Arguing for the Centre against same-sex marriages, Tushar Mehta asked some important questions in the Supreme Court.
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One of the best decisions taken by the Indian Judicial System was to implement Live court hearings . Should've been implemented a long time ago but better late than never . Helps show the dire process that goes into implementing a law . And gives us a perspective what went on and the reasons why some conditions are placed in some laws. Stops us from just jumping into conclusions why the law is wrong or right or what it shouldve been.
Blessings of Corona.😃
Can you please post the link for the full hearing.
court does not implement law, it interprets law and direct gov to enforce it.
??? Suppose 2 ppl of same sex wanna marry but cant (in india). u live to gether all happy after 10 years 20 years you both get old together and are living happily both of ur parents are no more and suddenly one of u gets sick or goes in a car accident. Ur partner dosent have any right on u according to the legal system and dont have any relation between u. But then I also understand that India isnt ready precisely the majority pf ppl arent maybe india after 10 years is ready to accept this
@@gamerboy7820 👍
For the first time I am impressed by the Indian Judiciary. They are discussing the matter in depth. Irrespective of the conclusion, everyone should be proud at the independence of our Indian judiciary! I hope a win-win arises.
CHUP
Goodness no! Being impressed with the judiciary for discussing a matter in depth is like being impressed with the fan blades turning when you flip the switch. It's what it was MADE TO DO! This guy's argument is that a section of society should be denied their basic rights because it's inconvenient for them to rewrite the laws. Trust me, we have a long, long way to go.
Crores of cases pending and this is hopeless judiciary for u
@@anirudh2704 this is the government's responsibility actually but they're avoiding it so what should we do!?
@@didd2810 since when Indian government started dispensing Judicial cases?
As far as I get it, these are not arguments to not allow same sex marriages but rather shortcomings of the present system built mainly for the binary community. When we are deciding to generalise the law, every other needs to be generalized as well..which, shouldn't be the reason to stop generalization in the first place.
Excellent. This is EXACTLY what I thought, too. What the SG is pointing out are the wordings that have been put in with the binary systems in mind
If I am being honest with you... Ancient Hindu Texts have the reference of Homosexuality in them and if they had no problem with it at that age or time, I think we should neither.
But yes, the problems listed by the SG definitely makes sense. I know your argument about reforming the current system sounds logical but it isn't factually accurate.
The LGBTQ community fails to determine their gender. In the Indian Law their are certain privileges given to both the genders respectively. Now, how to determine these things? Their can't be two parallel laws for the two of them because if so, then what if someone decides to identify themselves as LGBTQ in between their trail?
So, my point is... What problem doesn't have a solution? But not every solution is feasible.
@@rohanvats9982your argument is that years ago people didn't have problem with something so we shouldn't have problem with it too?
That's so stupid
@@rohanvats9982 - Ancient Hindu text does not refers to Hindu religious texts. Hindu society in the past had a lot of sub-groups living together which did not follow Hinduism - which included Buddhism and Jainism. A lot of their arguments are not accordance to Hindu beliefs and therefore, should not be added as a "Hindu text" in general.
@@rohanvats9982 can you please link me to some ancient Hindu texts mentioning homosexuality as you clearly remember them in the back of your mind.
Forget about same sex marriage, I want them to ban cousins and uncle-niece marriages. They are creating genetically disadvantaged children and deaths among them while they have the ability to stop it. It's also disgusting how your own family has the ability to have carnal desires on you. And also how ridiculous that is when a maternal cousin is a potential partner but a paternal cousin is a brother/sister. The same goes with uncles.
where is it practiced
See if u r Targetting muslims , as a Muslim my self .. There r no uncle and niece marriage here ( by no I mean it's very rare and uncommon )
And about cousin marriage it's usually between 2nd cousins or 3rd cousins they r Usually not direct cousins
So the cases r already very rare if u talk about direct cousins and very very rare about uncle and niece
Probably the same as other communities
@@Berries_11how can you even marry your 2nd cousin lol
That’s literally your sister
You guys are bit disgusting
@@Berries_11 I don't which part of the world you're from, but from where I come from, uncle-niece and 1st cousin marriages are very common. And no, I didn't target Muslims. I was targeting Hindus who do that and also people from other religions who do that.
@@Berries_11why did you assume they were targeting Muslims? Maybe if it quacks , it is a duck😂😂
It's my first time seeing how all laws are interlinked and breaking one law can cause chain reaction leading to system breakdown...
That means this is an issue of "system of marriage" on which the whole"family system" of India stands. Obviously it's not an easy decision to make.
I don't think these are arguments against same sex marriage explicitly but they just highlight the work that needs to be done on our legal system to actually integrate same sex marriage better.
Ohh ya thats a really good point
Yeah this is the bigger issue here.
Millions of cases pending across judiciary aren't important we should first solve this issue.
This is nothing but virtue signalling bullsht to hide the rot in judiciary.
Basically no one wants to provide law for your sexual orientation.
@@abhisheknarayana1224it's not providing laws for someone else's sexual orientation, it's changing rigid and obsolete laws to ones that fit the needs of today's time and can be fair for a large, more inclusive population.
@Parijat Singh You have no idea, what's coming after same sex marriage legalise, just look at what's happening in west!! We don't want those things to happen in India, India must focus on poverty and employment, not such futile issues, let me guess you're the from that community who can not describe what a women is? Tell me what is a women?
Except for the Incest thing, every other argument seems fair. If CJI thinks there is no concept of absolute biological men and women, he should give the parameters on how to decide who is the man and woman in all other acts of domestic violence, dowry, and rape. If a man who raped a woman doesn't identify himself as a man, what should be the deciding factor to consider him a man.
CJI knows how messed up this gets, so he left it to the parliament. For a small minority of the population, the court cannot throw the entire women under the bus.
Then change the definition of rape already!
Why is it a notion that men are only capable of committing rape??
Boy are you kidding me? Only a man can rape? No sir. A woman can rape too. Have you not seen criminal cases of father sexually assaulting their sons or mother doing the same to their daughters. Rape is wrong, whether done by a man or woman
This is the route to slippery slope. Vested interest want to see this through to destroy society as we know it.
What you want to say i don't understand but inc**t is is worst
If it is allowed then human meat should be allowed
Hahaha
This is how the country should operate !! Proud of these guys !!
keep crying when we get our marriage rights very soon
Somehow, I get the vibe that this dude is tryna support legalisation of SSM and just stating the problems with our current laws that might arise.
Legalisation of SSM will require a massive change in our constitution. And frankly speaking, such a change will take quite some time and would be more suitable in a time where we would have less problematic issues to deal with
I fear the day when there will be demands of incest marriage recognition saying " Love is Love" because what was considered a sin yesterday is a reality today. You never know what will come up after this.
I fear the day when people will stop using the heads for once and not actually study about the reality.
Incest is not the same as same sex marriage and gay relations were never a sin. They were just not recognised legally before.
@@byebyedislikecount939 I never said it was a sin. I said it was CONSIDERED a sin just like today people consider incest as sin. My question is what will you do when they demand incest marriage rights in future?
@@Rohan_Kumar___ Incest is not a sexuality. You are not attracted to your sibling due to ur sexuality, you have the choice to like anyone from the sex or opposite sex depending on your sexuality.
Gay people are only attracted to same sex, and hence they don't have the choice to like opposite sex.
INCEST INCEST INCEST
BRO LET THEM WIN FIRST WHY DO U WANT INCEST RIGHTS SO MUCH
Yes this feels like very logical and possible issue. Other worst things in future to consider - What is stopping People from posing as fake gay's and try to adopt a girl child or get close to women ('Desi girl' scenario) for achieving various devious goals ranging from illegal housing, faking to get jobs positions, cheating and or sex abuse. Their pretext will be 'Oh but we are legally proven gay, how we can impregnate or have affair with a girl or woman impossible.. rubbish!'
the thing what people need to understand is Marriage is not just love rather a legal contract, thats why we need these debates... else no one is stopping one from having a livein relationship
By definition -
In US, marriage is legal contract.
In India, Marriage is sacred and a union of man and a woman, and not a legal contract.
So, LGBTQANDHFJXSJSKAK doesn't understand that
@@SamratKiranjeet the definition can be changed then.
@@SamratKiranjeet sadly in India, judicially the purpose of marriage is clearly defined as for the purpose of reproduction. This is why infertility can amount to divorce. So the problem lies in the definition of marriage itself in the judiciary.
@@perseusvlasov367 They are playing with the definitions, that's why west and the Lqbtq + doesn't even know 'What is actually a women'.
@@deadmeatbones6742 Sadly in India, the people who doesn't know the definition of marriage is 'the young fellas, especially the educated and wealthy ones' just look the statistics. who has the most divorce rate? Is it among young couples or elderly couples? Is it among well educated- fully occupied couples or among poor farmers?. Fact is that elder people know what is marriage and the purpose of marriage.
And that's exactly why the west has more divorce rate than Indians. Back in the days India has below 10 rate for divorce. Now what is the situation.
Why? People are more attracted to money, sex and wealth not love, care, humility and respect.
Our father and mother have that, but I'm afraid what is the fate of next generation. So its clearly not the problem of definition, its the mentally of people who is attracted to western culture and 'Ultimate freedom' which will only endup in more orphan kids and destroyed families.
I don't know the technicalities of this sensitive matter but I feel that just by mere inconveniences predicted to happen in our laws we can't curtail the basic right of choosing one's life partner. There will always be a way of modifying the laws but there can't be any compensation for robbing someone's freedom to love and live the way they want.
Which is why one should elect the right people and not expect the judiciary to do their job
Do you support incest?
We live in a nation which sti upholds religious law. And you are talking about free civil liberties. How senseless you have to be. And anyway it is India we are talking about not west. Marriage is a sacred institution, not time pass. Recently people have started identifying thselves as Disabled. You must check Google.
If tomorrow I say I identify as woman and provide me with same consession and priveledges that are provided to women then how would you deal with that. There no turning around such situation. It's better to keep things how they are until society has found equality in real terms or alteast when social fiber had deteriorated like it's in west
It's not mere inconvenience. It's a huge inconvenience. Without taking care of all the major issues and possible legal problems, one cannot go right ahead and legalize same sex marriage.
@@truthlight6435 All concerns aside, for a second, can we please put ourselves in one of such situations where we are denied the right to be with the person we love and are forced to either be with someone we can't love or stay alone the entire life. Every new idea needs time and effort to be implemented. We can't sit in fear that it will disrupt the existing order. Infact it will make our laws more inclusive, widen their scope, plug its loopholes and most importantly it will reduce the exploitation of people who are different than normal. We as human beings have a tendency to be afraid of those who are different from us but the real maturity lies in accepting those differences and make things work for the greater good of everyone. Let this be a good start from our side. Let's give this idea a chance and then see what miracles it creates in the lives of thousands that are struggling for basic rights. The very idea of electricity, trains and infact internet was resisted on the mere belief that it will disrupt the contemporary order. They were just technological ideas. Whereas this is a system made by nature. If it was against nature then it wouldn't have existed. So let's welcome this change with open arms and open minds!
The points are valid but there are actual ways to solve the problem and grant LGBTQ+ people same equal rights, there is a solution but centre needs to have an intent to solve the problem
What's your solution??
Dialogue leads to solution. And they are having a dialogue
There is no problem to solve. Only problem here are the ones imagined by LGBT people and wasting court time with it.
So why don't you bring up the solution??
Then why don't you argue in front of all the judges of the supreme court and give out a "solution"?
Its very easy to be a keyboard warrior or an armchair general. Simply "importing" western laws doesn't work.
So we change these laws to include diversity.. Why wud he even bring incest into this topic🤦♀️
Because the next thing these individuals would demand will be incest. They will say the same thing “my individual freedom my sexual orientation”
It’s logic bruh…! They scream LOVE IS LOVE so by their belief incest is also acceptable
Yea that can be wt if brothers marry each other 😂
Because that's the truth. Its not just him who thought about it. I hv been thinking the same for long too. Incest relationships today are in the same position in society that once gay relationship did! If we give gay rights today, tomorrow incest couples wud stand up too because they also exist and suffer
@@sneha8732 is incest really present in our Indian Society ?? .. I mean Real siblings from same mother 🙄
Best compromise is to have a civil agreement act which is a kind of a special marriage act. Should give away most rights in that, except some.
Incest and attraction to same sex are not the same thing, even if brothers wanted to have sex it would be weird. A step child should also have same right as biological child if the step parent legally adopts the child. An adopted child has the same rights to property as a biological child.
Just extend the same domicile for husbands as well and call it spouse instead of 'wife'. Extend the same sucession acts to the husband as well and just apply the widowers/ widow for the gay/ lesbian couple.
@Windless Flame People wouldn't find sex pleasurable then, by that logic all contraceptions should be banned and that has terrible consequences. And people who are infertile or sterile should be banned from having sex.
Based on how same sex couples are being treated, no one would choose to be attracted to the same sex.
@Windless Flame sex just isn't the same as driving a car
@@therealgrimreaper68 if you can't understand a simple analogy ,why are you even debating here ??
@Windless Flame indeed , ur truthful
@Windless Flame you have legs, don't use cars and walk everywhere otherwise you are abusing the purpose of legs.
You use your brain and think about it. Why would someone willingly choose to be homosexual based on how badly you treat them? They lose a lot and gain nothing.
@BrutIndia ..Hi Brut India, Im sorry that im gonna have to go off topic, But Can u Please please Cover the Communal Violence happening in Manipur, Churches, Lands, Homes are burnt down and people are killed and all that started in response to a peaceful unarmed Tribal Rally which was only held against the Govt. And not against another community....please help us People are dying in Manipur😭😭🙏🙏🙏
Then next time elect kejriwal as your cm
@@Vizorfam easy for you to just say that, Bcus youre not the one dying, your house is not burnt, your people are not fleeing their rightly owned properties and lands. Be realistic, If Kejriwal was there, We would have surely Voted
hey, I think brut is probably looking into this, and hopefully would be sharing a video regarding this issue! I hope everything become alright in Manipur, as we speak!!
@@Vizorfam why you have to say nonsense when you dont know whats happening at all?
Let Jesus save them. Why are you wailing.
A few things India can take into account - legalizing conjugal relationships, live-in relationships for LGBTQ, looking at which elements from Western nations can be implemented within the Indian societal framework. Sexual act without consent remains a punishable crime regardless of the genders of the people. Same can be done for Leading Partner and Second Partner. There were times when single women couldn’t adopt, people had to fight for it. We are undergoing a big change, india you can do a good job. There are a whole bunch of people waiting to live a free life in India and come out of closets, especially in Tier 2 and Tier 3 towns.
Can you define LBGTQ before making such statements?
Define them and tell me what is this.
@@khrawbryan mental disorders .. *in simply words
You want us to adapt elements from the western nations? So you want to bring the identity crisis here where anyone can identify as whatever they please regardless of their biological sex? That will bring all sorts of problems and issues here
@@azraelinium1012 i identify as a television.
@@azraelinium1012 rightly said. Ppl are going crazy over there 😅 Who has time to entertain their delusion.
Ps. Am not against same sex marriage.
J Sai Deepak is there in the bench. 😊😊. This is the best argument and discussion done in court. There will be a lot of change in culture an we indians cannot accept that
He is a fool
J sai deepak always talks illogically, and gay people have been existing since mahabharatha. J sai deepak is no one to deny two people from loving and staying with each other
@@abhi_25246 ohh illogically 😢 ..
@@abhi_25246 ok so the logical thinga to do is ask the male child in childhood whether he feels like girl or boy if wants to transition then do it before being 16 years old using hormnal therapy in the end the male child feels he did a mistake and de transitions is this logical for you. Going through numerous pain since childhood.
@@abhi_25246 I agree on that
In this particular case centre is right. If this marriage will be recognised then the whole social structure will suffer
Absolutely, as per 2019 research there is no gay gene..
Hence sexuality is totally dependent on environmental factors after a child is born..
If homosexuality is legalized and promoted in a society we will have more homosexuals in next generations.
Disrupting the societal structure by giving emotional arguments of individual freedom and choice is total madness.
Human stupidity has no limits 😂
Abdul in many cases govt is right and abduls are wrong
But because of your religion you are against
@@omnamahshivaya7894 No government of humans on this petty little planet can be superior to the creator of this universe
@Robert Junior No argument here has been presented based on religion.
If you have better arguments please present and enlighten us. Personal attacks is no argument
@@kmasif164 so you support hindutva??
Very Understandable... We already have lot of loop holes in our law and now this makes even worse. So, they need to change all laws accordingly
Sai sir waiting for his chance to argue 🔥🔥🔥
Im waiting for his sledgehammer blows.
J sai is meanwhile watching ben shapiro videos to get warmed up.
Master information manipulator that guy..
@PDM i am actually praising him..politics and law is about manipulating information anyway
@PDM he became famous via sabrimala by asking to treat deity ayappan as a physical person and protesting against cracker burning ban
.
Both these cases showed his way of words and pseudo-mordenist approach to argue in favour of customs that lack any value in the mordern world.
Treating ayappan as a physical person is the violation of several beliefs in the hindu system which state that idols are representaion of gods and god itself is formless and not necessarily a human.
The second case of Diwali he argued that crackers are burned as a way to show spirits the lighted path to heaven or whatever and it is a custom that should be respected. I agree that lightning has a special significance but there is no mention in vedas about crackers , the lighted path you provide via diya and candles.
But he speaks in fast english sentences and provides pseudo logic for all his assertions just like Ben Shapiro. And most of the times he is like - if other religions do it , why we should not?
So he doesn't provide solutions, he thrives on conflict and he is obsessed with pandering to his bhakt base and inciting them.
His position on NRC - "having a register of citizens is a fundamental function of the state" and therefore essential. This, when some Indian states have a 40% birth and death registration system after trying to improve it for a decade and can't even conduct the census.
I don’t support this same sex marriage , I live in America and this culture is so awful.. beyond reproachable.. please keep the ban on same sex marage
💯💯😭exactly
Care to explain?
One question will arise... when gay be legal ...will it be applicable to all religions?....it will definitely create problem
About this incest thing, same sex couples were never considered a sin in India before the British raj and Christianity made it into a sin. How can being gay be a sin? There are plenty of gay animals in nature, it is not unnatural. What is unnatural is this hate for people who love differently. Grant them their rights.
Bro what , how ignorant you can be of the Indian history , bet you can't even back your saying by legit sources ✋️, and also for your kind info before the British most of India was ruled by the Mughals and guess what religion they followed ; Islam and in Islam it is clearly sinful for even having the thought of same sex marriage 😂 , so next time atleast try to do your homework kiddo🤓🤓
This isn't homophobic, they are just being rational
The majority of people have absolutely no idea about the complexity of this matter and are foolishly reducing it to an "Equality issue".
Most of the people have no idea about the arguments put by advocates and Justices in this matter. The Chief Justice just announced that the Honourable Supreme Court cannot entertain popular morality because if they go by what young people feel then they afterwards have to listen to what many other people feel. Listen to the arguments put forth by the Solicitor General and how the bench agreed on the devastating effects and ramifications of legalising same-sex marriage on the personal laws, Special Marriage Act, Constitutional laws, Criminal and Civil Procedure, and provisions and laws and safeguards for women. The problem is that people are seeing this without even a smidgeon of technical knowledge, and it is not a problem but people should restrain from speaking on the matters which are exceedingly severe. Same-Sex Marriage entails Identity-crisis (just like what is happening in USA) and after that Identity Politics. There would be thousands of petitions on the identity issues with the defence of 78th paragraph in NLSA v. UoI(2014).
You should look at the severity and complexity of the matter to decide if you should speak or not.
I agree
Valid.
A well thought comment 👍
how would this be made understood to shallow thinkers? who just think that it is the right of a person to choose and become what ever they want. who are of more individualistic than collectivistic.
@@freakshit22 Yes, I saw how intelligent people really are.
A dangerous statement we often hear these days "I identify as a man or a woman" and then one can use the loopholes in the system to bend the rules.
totally not happening
Totally not happening? What about the MAN who identified as a woman and went to a female prison and S.A many women and got them pregnant
@@anujthapa2346 Who are you talking about exactly?
if you're talking about Demi Minor, both instances were consensual sex.
i remember reading about this father in the US identifying as a women to win a court case for child custody
then theres the several other issues like trans women (geneticall males) participating in womens sports competitions etc
@babum karam let me tell you that right to self determination for gender is already legal in India... There's no chaos and loopholes that have happened so far...
Setup a committee create a draft for correction and make parliament vote on it. How hard is that?
please dont legalise it, look at the hell which has broken loose in the west due to the lgbt being more accepted
My respect for Uganda is sky high !
No to same sex marriage.
Yes brother 😊
What i believe is india's culture doesn't allow same sex marriage....vidhi ke vidhan ko ap change nahi kar sakte
Visit any of the family courts or divorce lawyers these days and check out the number of divorces happening in the straight couple marriages.
If people are happy and are not harming other humans what's wrong in giving them their rights.
Thinking beyond sex is important.
There are so many orphans without parents. Legalization of these marriages will give them the right to adopt those orphans who deserve a better life.
What is the count of straight couples who cannot conceive adopting?
@Windless Flame The issue is purpose. Yes What is really the purpose for same sex marriage?.. Did society pressure two same sex induviduals to be married in India?? no that rule is pressured only on different sex people.. because else they are seen as illicit relations.
So what is the problem if there is no registered marriage certificate in case of same sex couples??
@Windless Flame Ya sure blah.. blah.. Have you just made absolutely like 'ZERO' sense with your reply to a simple question? Anyway good luck to you too "O' My friend" getting a life i guess!! Lol..
The issue is purpose. Yes What is really the purpose for same sex marriage?.. Did society pressure two same sex induviduals to be married in India?? no that rule is pressured only on different sex people.. because else they are seen as illicit relations.
So what is the problem if there is no registered marriage certificate in case of same sex couples??
@@_Windless_Flame the purpose of sex could be procreation, but is sex the only purpose of life? If no, then what else than to find love and solace in someone else? Sex is just the biochemical hormonal reaction that brings two people together. It's not necessary that they have the sex. Hence gay people can love whoever they want. Homosexuality is not just having sex with the same gender, it's finding love and purpose in the same gender too.
@@_Windless_Flame so murdering infertile people is not a crime I guess, considering they are not fulfilling the purpose of life?
His incest point is a long stretch and the rest are just technicalities that needs an update
That very man speaks for the humanity my friend.
We better be ded if that gets legalised
This is kind of hilarious that people can be so educated and yet so stupid and lacking in empathy. If you are getting your right to live life however you want without anyone questioning your morality what makes you think its okay to deny those rights to other human beings ?
yess!!!
New to India?
What about incest?
@@GokulHardy7 really good question , have same rights should not be an issue in a democracy , but the insanity going around in West around this topic has changed my views on liberalism as "whole"
Every country is not America bud. Smh
Well, many of the arguments are structured around the biases of a heteronormative society. For example, the "Who will be the wife?" argument does not apply because its definition stems from the preexisting notion that sex & gender roles are inherently linked. Gender is a social construct, and hence no universal aspects are associated with it.
Cant we just use d word term "spouse"..why .. husband and wife, widower.
Nope that is a threat to sexism and gender roles 😂
Can I use the word student and get admission in a girls college
🙃
@@mr.phantom6969😂😂
Mehta is just giving out childish counterpoints to Same-sex marriage, But his reasoning just mirrors how Indian law is rigidly binary and not inclusive to all
Is they are fighting over lgtv ?
LGTV
I think the issue is with the rights they want and perks allowed to married couples....so it's not necessary we call it a marriage but it can be thought that way , that they should get similar rights+perks as a married couple is allowed...that won't interfere with the meaning of marriage as well as they'll get what they want
That's why there is a concept of " civil union" where they can get their rights. It will a best solution.
correct.
Same thinking was allowed in US and west and it went bonkers
We should do it carefully and learn from them
A gender neutral as a whole kind of law would help much better in arguments against sexuality
hey, did anyone else spot J. Sai Deepak in the background ?
It sounds way too ridiculous. These are the kinds of people who are in the highest court? No offence but did they even try to do some basic research about this?
Nope. They clearly are living in the 1950s
Definitely far more than you.
@@Rohan_Kumar___ I listened to the SG arguments on day 5 or 6 I think?
And he literally tried to group all queer people into the transgender group.
Whiles he's trying to give good arguments, he just doesn't have any proper understanding about LGBT in general and if he did, incest argument wouldn't have been raised
@@byebyedislikecount939 Incest point has to be considered as well if you look at a broader picture. Because tomorrow there will be people demanding incest marriage rights. What will you do then? And the SG is arguing in the SC , he has to present a broader picture about what all these could lead to.
@@Rohan_Kumar___ I replied to you in another comment but incest is NOT a sexuality.
You choose to have relations with ur sibling.
Homosexual people are only able to love someone from the same sex. They can't like the opposite sex, they have no choice.
I think it's better that the Judiciary of India takes time to set the laws carefully because the purpose of judiciary is to serve justice which is just and fair. Either don't make laws or make ones carefully so that that no one can escape or commit any wrongdoings by finding loopholes.
Alpha debator is seating behind 🗿🗿
OMG , excellent arguments by SG !! 🥶🥶😱😱 The level of depthness in their argument is unfathomable.
"Level of depthness" 🤣🤣
@@screwupturfmann8611oh man , that was *deepness* not depthness, it's a typing error .
Well , how your nerd social media campaigns going?
why u all people are behaving like desparates , hysterias and Manias !
# fu*king Geeks .
It's to make understand the Present CJI lord of hell .... What it takes , to legalise the gays marriage or same sex marriage..
Chandra choor seems not to understand anything except for marriage of same sex .
@@sujatanaik3848 he finally didn't pass any law, just asked legislation that will include LGBT couple to have other perks and benifits as hetero married couple.
Is that J Sai Deepak in the back?? 🤔
Yes
so the entire argument is that they would have to change a lot of the legal language, and hes trying to convince them that it would be highly inconvenient. Change should not be stopped because it is too difficult.
exactly!!! this comment 🤝
I think same sex marriage will not affect our children because if they decide whether they prefer to change their gender, it's their feelings from inside that will make them take decision on it,not seeing someone changing their gender,ok they did it i also should do this !
can we also criminalize marital rape.. i hope one day india punishes those rapists who are hiding behind the tag of marriage
It is already there but with the different names.
What that happens to you Meghna Arora?
Pehle se hi criminalize hai comment karne se pehle law bhi padh liya kar naxali
Exactly fake cases women too
@Seeker rubbish ? and forcing people to read a religions textbook is sure the best way to make them hate it
how did same sex marriage suddenly changed to incest bruhhh
It's a logical argument after 10 incest become new community and they will demand of their right based on this judgement
Because it's related I I heard news where girls sexually abused by their own father brother or uncle but many time it is consual who couldn't reveals if we allowed same sex marriage they will demand their right
SG Tushar mehnat just pointed if law can prohibit incest marriage then law can also prohibit same sex marriage
I think what SG is trying to say here is that, anything short of legislative action by the court(which the SC obviously won't do) will make the existing laws redundant or difficult to implement.
The SC can make the marriage legal but they ultimately must rely on Executive and Legislature to make necessary amendments to existing provisions which the executive and legislature can refuse to do.
I think the Hon. SC may formulate general guidelines to deal with confusion. But,sooner or later this issue has to be dealt with by the legislature. Either,they accept the ruling of SC and make necessary amendments,or they make laws contrary to the Hon. SC decisions thereby nullifying it or they can refuse to do anything while the Courts deal with this one case at a time.
Did he just say INCEST?!?!
Yep. The same arguments can be used to support iit as well .
Proof people really need to update laws way more often.
@@darksideofthesun7157 Strongly agree
@@mohitanand1844 It can't. Even if incest happens between two fully consenting adults from opposite gender, and if they have a baby, it'll have much more probability of genetic diseases, because their parents are blood related. Why is he doing such a weird comparison? babies from incest will be like babies from close-community marriages, which already happens, and are practiced almost exclusively, are not scientifically the right thing to do, let alone morally and human rights -wise.
a common understanding, sexual attraction towards someone related by blood and genes dont actually happen, but they are bringing this illogic statement, proving they need education!! comparing sexual identity and incest, really?
This western rout should never be allowed in india
Because they have to solve cases so they have to think how it will be affected in complicated situations. In everything there is 2 genders so changing that overnight is an issue. And people will find loopholes so that's why they are arguing in court.
You can't change laws overnight it will cause chaos. So he is referring to the situations that will happen. And people in comment section only have to scroll and post there opinions and move on. But the judges and lawyers have to fight in cases using those laws and articles mentioned. Its very easy to find loopholes in Justice system
Tell me your CJI is woke without telling me he is woke🤷🏽♂️
L comment
He has spent around 6-7 years in Britain
So that's self explanatory
He is only saying problems which would arise if this is legalised. He doesnt have any valid arguments for why it should not be legalised. If legalised, these problems will have to sorted out in the same order to avoid future complications. But just saying these will be problems, so we should not allow is not justified
You will not sort those problems court has to tolerate such nonsense in future...
Let them decide
Moreover those countries where it is legalised and such problems arised they also are not able to solve those and they are developed countries 😊
Wrong choice of words, not against it they are just saying implementing a single law will lead to immediate modifications in other otherwise it will create a loophole which a can also be abused
These are brilliant questions which I never thought of. System should be simple.
Ofcourse mate
I always say ki people think things are simple but are simpletons and easy overall
Life is simple and complicated at the same time
Hope we can do better than the west
Ahh I used to believe too that life was simple
J Sai Deepak at the back....
Based. Chad SG Mehta, single-handedly destroyed those in favour of SSM. CJI was stumped. These arguments ensured that this bench doesn't give judgment in favour of SSM
No arguments lol all he did was mental gymnastics.. There is no argument against same sex marriage that's why it's already legal in soo many countries
@@Kris-br3nz there can be arguments against everything. Also its illegal in more countries than legal
@@raghav5903 it's illegal in most third world countries.. Pretty sure we aren't aiming to be like them lol
@@raghav5903 what Argument did u find of him appealing lol.. All he did was mental gymnastics
@@Kris-br3nz how many countries brother ? Few "free" countries who bomb countries to liberate them from themselves ?
w indian judiciary system
constantly trying to get approval of others to live their own life is so heart breaking
they are not incest they are humans just treat them like humans
Let them live bro, why need for same sex marriage?.. Did society pressure two same sex induviduals to be married in India?? no that rule is pressured only on different sex people.
Incest are incest. Don't like to rationalise how stray dogs live as "humane".
Most Indians are like this , being ignorant until it is too late is in our blood🤦♂️
@StarBoy-ps1xc - they forgot how our forefathers less than 100 years ago were dying of famine and starvation in India because of White men.
And yet, today's generation is ready to sell their country back to the White men and live as their coolies. Disgusting.
@@GobiSubramaniam shut up
Incest is a different topic
Finally some light on the problems associated with Lgbtq .
Same sex should be viewed as an affair not marriage. It's just a sexual fantasy nothing more.
Homosexuality has always been accepted by scientific literature to be a normal phenomenon in nature, you're an idiot who calls sexual attraction a sexual fantasy.
Agreed
so you're saying asexual gay people do not exist?
His whole argument is who is mother, who is father.. Whhatttt!!?
When there r social, economical implications and about rights.
Those are some really good points. His research should be taken into account so that all these British-era laws may be updated hand-in-hand without leaving any legal inconsistency for anyone including both heteros and LGBTQ+ people. If we truly want to return to pre-colonial glory, we much acknowledge and respect the LGBTQ+ community as did our distant ancestors.
Nobody supported these mentally ill fools in significant scale anywhere or anytime in our history.
@@IIBaseTotally false.
Homosexuality, for example, was used to strenghten relationships within Spartan army. i can name you hundred of ancoent authors who talked positively about same sex realtionships.
Go back to school.
@@NicolaFossi there is positive mentions of homosexuality in carvings and ancient texts which was made in pre-colonial india. They treated gay people the same way they treated straight people!!
@@_march_egg_
Oh really 😂 in Tamil Nadu I heard It was a sin in past. Not by scriptures but in local belief systems. We never accept this.
Also our father purchased 1 plot from the company, on 13/09/2007 the company also issued a "lease and purchase deed" in which it is written "10 years non-assignment to anyone" Our father's lease term is 10 years on 06/01/2010 while still in Hawaii. Will written, (for daughter) will not registered, mentioned by stempeter, what are the grounds in law (our father died on 08/04/2018)
Let us know how we should proceed please help me 🙏
J Sai Deepak chilling in the back🗿🗿
I identify as Michael Jackson my pronouns are hee hee
Aa Gaye Bina video deke hate comment Karne vale
💀 yee hee
@@rishitomar67 LGBTQ IS RIDICULOUS WHATS WRONG IN RIDICULING SOMETHING THATS RIDICULOUS
Is there a video for the counterpart's argument?
So in India, the argument of the center is how will the patriarchy continue and who will be the mother and the father? Like seriously? This is the 21st century and I think it's time we develop a better accommodating system rather than the male-centered system. It's something as minute as taking up the husband's name. So the center is like 'the problem is which partner will take up whose name and identity?' My god. As a developing nation, it's our country's duty to reform, develop and better the already existing norms regarding various methodology prevalent in our countries administration. Please, for once, don't make the argument for 'what will happen to the already present system?' rather 'how can we make the right beneficial changes?', After all it is "of the people, for the people and by the people" right? And to all the people who are saying same sex marriage is going to ruin our Indian culture, what is happening to the youth, old times were great, blah blah, etc., etc., Please shut up.
The problem is people like you have prejudices like patriarchy feminism etc because he clearly mentioned the problems arising out of not defining wife and husband role is in case of domicile in passports,succesion, dependnce e.t.c even after hearing entire video you simply neglected that part and you putforth your point which he never mentioned in video..In India whether it is liberals or right wing they start having some preconceived notions and they believe they are true instead of having a proper debate on topic and having a respectable defeat.
Never did I mention feminism in my argument dear sir. I am simply trying to say that why can the documentation system not change? due to the time taking tedious process? And I am not blaming the male gender, just highlighting the need to change the male leading name system. The speaker was making the argument about what will happen to the already present system if there are only two females involved and I completely understand his need to mention this. My only suggestion is, in addition to that, somebody should come up with a solution which is inevitably going to be making an amendment in the documentation system. And as a citizen I can only hope that somebody in my country's government body comes up with an accomodating solution. I just wish people stop fearing change so much, especially our government. Thank you for giving me a different perspective and I apologise if I came across as hostile towards the male gender to you.
P.S. not everytime somebody mentions patriarchy, they are tryna drag down males and are pseudo feminists like you percieved me to be.
@@lishaangral I just mentioned people like you.. because I saw many comments where people instead of looking worth of arguments they sidelined the topic..anyway I am sorry for Targeting you and hurting you like that..the accomodating solution is agreeing that LGBTQ is an abnormal situation in nature due to some genetic or medical related problems and having sympathies for them due to their condition which is a result of factors not in their hands and allow them to have their personal bond with people whom they want within their four walls and keeping the genders as male and female like now where a child need nourishment from both sex parents in the form of mother and father and planning a civil union or contractual union for LGBTQ people instead of pushing them into a system which is made only for male and females which constitutes majority and with changing laws for same sex couples it will open a pandora box of problems for overall society at all where people start identifying themselves male or female for some benefits like avoiding dowry cases, succession issues etc and children may identify themselves mistakenly due to wrong information feeded into their brains. We can make it clear and loud that the base of society is male and female and third gender is abnormal situation where there rights are met through special laws instead of forcibly inserting them into already established institutions for specified genders
Mam will you agree to abolish the special rights women has after marriage (in 21st century), will you abolish the schemes government promote for women empowerment...
Just saying anything out of emotions does not prevail...
There is something called gender and that's why we have gender roles...
They are not LGBTQ they are LGBTQ (+) they don't even know about themselves well ...
If laws are changed overnight the loopholes will be misused very easily and you can see that happening in America and Germany ...😊
As humans we are the same form last 10,000 years only external environment changed nothing more(I am saying this as I am a anthropology student)
If laws are changed and made gender neutral it will be a Chaos as patriarchy will be in its strongest form ever...
@@sivaramakrishnayellela576 Good argument, changing the whole legal system for a small minority is not worth it, as Indians are experts in misusing loopholes of legal system...
not legalizing gay marriage cannot be considered as violation of human right, if so quotas for women in colleges and seperate compartments in trains,buses would have been considered same, we have to see that some decisions on long term have better impact.
Whataboutery at its finest 😂
W advocate
Well the whole marriage acts need reconstruction. Even if same sex marriage allowed then how does the benefits of the institution of marriage gets applied to the same-sex couple? Looks like a very long journey
These dilemmas are bound to come when the legal and socio-political system was designed keeping the heterosexual-binary in mind. Just because more paperwork is needed does not mean that we should not make the effort to make these changes. We owe this much at least to the people who have suffered for years.
Marriage is a by product of religion and is happened only between the opposite sex
Is J Sai sitting in the back ? I'm really interested to know his point of view on the matter
These laws have to be updated. Don't think these communities were discussed over at earlier times. World has changed now, people ve become more accepting. The present population must be judged based on what is believed to be right now. We'll never get out of antiquated customs n rules n beliefs if we stick to these old rules.
Communities at every generation update their rules according to their present day environment n understanding.. Otherwise we'll ve to go back to triple talakh, casteism, honor killings. If problems are new, it doesn't mean we revert back to the old.
1:13 time will tell how far fetched it is.............within few decade we are going to see it in western culture
Isnt it actually in practice in some Muslim cultures??
@@Hithere-qj1wj Islam doesn't allow incest. marrying a cousin is allowed in many religions and cultures including Islam
@@AbdulRehman-bu3ho
Half incest is still a incest.
@@Hithere-qj1wj for sapinda marriage(for cousin marriage in Hinduism ) to perform its require son side 5th generation and daughter side 7th generation
Here the degree of incest is less but it's still a incest
@@AbdulRehman-bu3ho It is prohibited Abdul.
I don't understand, why does it matter if a child is "full blood" or "half blood", heck the child doesn't even have to be their child and can be adopted(which most people don't) as long they are all happy, that is all that matters lmao. I don't know how any of his points make any sense. This man is representing a whole fucking generation who thinks they know better.
2:50 dude obviously they would come under the Indian succession act when they are marrying under the special marriage act. Why would they come under the Hindu marriage act or the Hindu succession act?
What if they are Hindu's or their family believes in marriage by Hindu act. Possible hai na?
@@varunemanidude Hinduism as a religion does not recognise same sex marriage. That's just not a thing. So the Hindu marriage act won't apply because the marriage would not be done under hindu customs. Don't get me wrong I am not singling Hinduism out here.. All those three acts won't recognise this because those religions don't recognise it. So they will have to come under special marriage act.
@@altairauditore3782 Oh come on.. are'nt we just going around in circles with this DUDE!
My point is would it be entirely upto the induviduals here in India to decide on such a thing (Choice of special marriage act) if their families are orthodox traditional Hindu's and are staunchly against accepting anything else to be considered a lawful marriage.. it's a terrible pickle of a matter and you cant certainly argue / force the entire society or nation to accept a certain special marriage act unless ofcourse all of said society deem it PURPOSEFULLY essential now.
@@varunemani oh this is entirely because amending the special marriage act in this way would grant certain civil and legal rights which were not available before. Societal acceptance may or may not change anyways.
@@altairauditore3782 Civil and legal rights such as..??
J Sai Deepak spotted.
I think rather than asking for marriage they should demand their own new partner kind relationship with all the rights marriage provide, where there should not be terms like father and mother (in document)
Yeh jo itna Sara father, mother, husband, wife related laws hai uska kya?
Wow a child with no father and no mother what a natural institution for a child to grow in wonder where all this is heading
They could not (ask for their own rights). This is because this is not a fight for inclusion. This is a fight for erasing the definition of Man and Woman. They want to erase that definition of what is to be a Man and Woman legally.
@@GobiSubramaniam that is the problem they are trying to change basic unit of society which will create uproar
@@sajanbisht8380 - Yes. The problem here is NOT accepting Same-Sex marriage IF the proper laws are in place, proper legal definitions are agree upon and social problems (like allowing incest relationship to be legalized in the future) are identified and prevented.
After all, transgender people had been living in India more freely than anywhere else, including America and Europe for generations. Legalizing them through marriage should not be a problem IF all the legal obstacles are identified and iron out.
But the problem here is that some groups (like these LGBTs) are trying to change existing laws for Man and Woman through the false concept of Equality. They are trying to get us to include them (as part of our culture and tradition) when they should be fighting for a place for themselves in the society as individual groups.
The different here is that if they able to establish themselves as an individual groups, then they could create their own culture and tradition without encroaching into our mainstream society since India had been home for many cultures and tradition.
Is it all about provisions to be changed in different laws? Then we shall look into how other countries have made the changes in provisions...its done before. It can be done here also.
Those were some really really strong points. Also people don't even understand the meaning of marriage. Marriage is not a social construct but a commitment between a wife and a husband who are willing to give birth to their child. And since the presence of both a father and a mother is mandatory for a childs healthy upbringing, the consulting adults must make a commitment of staying together for the child. So what's the point of marriage if you can't even give birth ? And you wanting to pop kids through artificial means ., Is it not an evil selfish desire without considering the implications on the child ?
So IVF must also be "evil selfish desire" too then according to you. That's artificial too. A single woman or man can raise a child well too. So can 2 women, or 2 men. There are MF couples who fail too. It doesn't define how well the child will end up
" So what's the point of marriage if you can't even give birth ? " "you wanting to pop kids through artificial means" Are gonna stop infertile people from getting married and seeking treatment?
What about men and women who want to get married but don't want children for a host of various other reasons (disabilities, financial health, medical history, etc). Are we going to deny them of a marriage.
What about the gay and lesbian couples who wish to start a family by adopting children who were casted away by their parents. Are we going to deny them of a marriage.
What about the couple who literally multiply like spores because the "Purpose of marriage is Kids" but do a horrible job of raising them? Are we gonna award them for adding to the population.
What about the person who physically or mentally abuse their spouse? Do these men and women hold the sanctimony of a "proper" marriage?
Once we start peeling the layers we will realize a lot of heterosexual couples should not get married and certainly should not procreate, while lot a of homosexual couples deserve to get married and start a nice family.
Exactly what I am searching for
what about infertile couples who're married? What about single parents?
Also, adoption is there. Why artificial means?
In LGBTQ, a husband is a male and a wife is a female just like straight couple. Therefore, gay couple would be of 2 husbands and lesbian couple would have 2 wives. Hence, everything needs to be looked into a new point of view that of a straight marriage. You cannot implement straight marriage or straight couple property or inheritance law on LGBTQ marriage. There has to be a different marriage Act just like Hindu marriage Act is different than Indian Marriage act.
Exactly! Other aspect of legal and social life need new rules and regulation with the basis of rational background
Well, if a Hindu Man claims to be a Woman during his Divorce, which act would govern what happens?
In ine if his interactions with students Sasguru Jaggi Vasudev has analysed this issue beautifully and even offered praxtical solution. Ifeel our judiciary should go through this.
I think, we are not made for law, but laws are made for us. So these so these dilemmas can be avoided by doing some word changs, or some amendments in the current statutes.
J SAI DEEPAK in background?
It's because🏳️🌈 they don't want their power to be slips away from the hands of women in the marriage, to get her 30% alimony & 20% child support & free house from the husband in the marriage after its been broken
It truly irritates me hearing centre's argument against same sex marriage.
Nothing feels substantial.
All questions can be answered.
His main argument is that previously made provisions, laws, etc which were made ignoring rights of LGBTQ will have to be rewritten.
@@yumi-e2o so can you, if cant digest progressive thinking.
questions are valid, this means our existing marital laws are flawed and need a revision.
Not everything is set on stone.. Just because changes required it doesn't have to be flawed....
@@karrasuryaprakash8702 well those times were different, context was different.
It was heartwarming to know that there in actuality exist no problem with the union of same gender individuals. The solicitor general, considered to be learned counsel with unparalleled experience after thorough study couldn't find any fundamental problem in the union of man and man or woman and woman. Instead, he has however found that laws as they exist today do not accommodate same sex unions and that same gender civil rights need greater debate, community participation etc to develop inclusive laws. Quite happy
Has anyone seen J SAI DEEPAK sir sitting behind.
sangi
Lord sai deepak at back
Can he complete half a sentence before saying “my lord”?
Government and courts should not be involved in marriages. marriage should be totally between 2 individuals, and no one should be involved. Should be like business between 2 individuals
....you know that marriage is a legal contract, right?
@@apolloismydad it shouldn't
@@scriptranda2670then go to utopia.dont stay in India
Changing the Nature will be Disastrous.