Matt's Country - The Lead Ban for Airguns - my findings and worries
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2022
- Matt's Country - Episode 10. The potential impact on air guns, air rifles and air pistols - and in fact all airgun shooters, of the Lead Ammuntion Ban. Lead airgun pellets have been the mainstay of most airgun shooting for decades. And even it we shoot food for our table, it's very easy to find the pellet and remove it without eating it. Lead poses no threat at all. But we face a potential EU Wide ban on Lead. So I have purchased and tested some lead replacement pellets, and found them... not very good.
But then some lead pellets are also not very good!
The cover photo is of some lead pellets that I caught in a fabric curtain pellet trap, mentioned in the video. You can clearly see how the rifling from the barrel imparts it's essential shape and air tight seal on the pellet. Lead replacement doesn't seem to do this at all.
We've all found (if not, attempting to find) the brand/size of pellet that fits our rifles' barrel the best. We have all done the extensive and expensive testing over years of experimenting, and I include manufacturers and end users in that, gaining the skill and experience along the way. We all realise the importance of how each pellet engages with the rifling and forms a seal as it slides through the barrel and exits properly at the crown. Every pellet behaves exactly as the last to achieve the goal, whether it be paper, a tin can, or quarry.
I don't shoot shot guns, but I can understand how it's easier (though maybe not in all cases) to change to steel as it doesn't have to engage with the barrel as accuracy is not as critical as it is with pellets or bullets.
The question I ask is:- Why is it that some people who are so high up in society and have a certain power, have no real interest or inclination to understand what's involved in removing lead from the equation, and don't even know or care about the consequences? All they understand is lead is poisonous, because someone had told them, but what they don't understand is it all depends on how it is used.
If you heat it up it can allow gasses into the atmosphere, this is why it was removed and banned from petrol, consequentially forcing engine manufacturers to change materials used in cylinder heads. Lead has been banned from solder in the electronics and plumbing industries, as it's heated to to enable it to flow.
A lot of us older folk can probably remember drinking water from their kitchen sink supplied through a lead pipe. And there's no legislation in place to remove it!
Tells you everything you need to know?
 CH on
I often wonder if .. I found a dying bird in the road, and had to dispatch it... would i be ok to use the Lead Pipe , in the KItchen, dressed as Colonel Mustard! Joking aside though, lead pipeand the lack of removal is a great analogy. But go one better. Lead flashing on every roof in Great Britain. Nearly every house roof has lead flashing... the rain runs over it every day...and it goes down the drains and into the land.
@@mattscountry363 Lead flashing on all old houses in the USA as well. It only gets replaced when the roof does because you can't buy a new lead roof jack in many states. There are areas with lots of lead pipe, Flint Michigan was in the news a few years ago and so was Chicago. No mandate to replace the lead pipes. Why? Because it is expensive and most of those pipes lay in poor neighborhoods and the homeowner gets to pay for the replacement. Politicians don't care about poor people. Just animals shot with lead projectiles.
When a pure lead projectile is spinning, it expands into the rifling as well, because it’s so soft. You’re 100% right about not gripping a rifling. 🤙
Right on, right on. I'm amazed so few people realise how the skirt expands, but we are here to inform and guide, to learn and to become wiser :)
Not a fix, but it may be worth experimenting with annealing the copper pellets, to soften the copper and see if they expand and show evidence of the imprint from the barrels rifling.
Annealing copper can make copper considerably softer and more workable, possibly allowing the pellets skirt to expand as they’re only thin.
With a blowtorch, heat up some of the copper pellets to around 450C, not quite cherry red, then quickly quench it in cold water. The surface colour of the copper changes during heating when it gets to blue this may be enough.
The coppers grain structure and colour changes after rapid cooling losing its shine and becomes like a dull salmon colour.
Being an ex plumber who worked with sheet copper and joining larger diameter copper pipes using brazing rods. I used to anneal copper to make forming branch joints and bell joints with a bent bolt easier. After annealing, copper work hardens during forming with impacts or bending. Copper will eventually age hardens, I’m not sure how long the process takes though.
Someone may have already tried the process of annealing copper pellets and can answer whether this would work, who knows!
Matt you're the first I've seen to really understand the problems with non lead ammo. You talk a lot of sense as such I've just subscribed to the channel. With the amount of airgunners out there, together as a group we should have a lot of political clout.
Hi Del - thank you for your kind words. You are right... there are a LOT of airguns out there. And in theory we should carry some weight! Not as much as lead though ;)
I've just subbed too 👍
It's very simple.
It's a way of banning shooting without banning shooting.
Lead free ammo is 5x the price and gives 5x worse accuracy.
Accurate shooting and safety are no accident, unless you shoot lead free pellets.
One of the joys of shooting airguns is that it is an inexpensive hobby. I got back into airguns during Covid when we were having an ammunition shortage here in the USA.
A 500 round can of .22 lead pellets is about $6. You can shoot all day for $6! Non lead is so much more expensive, about $12 per 100 rounds and with much less performance.
It’s a non starter for me.
Thanks for the video.
Hello Tony, and thanks for joining in :) I agree fully... it's superb value for money. Sadly here in the UK, right now Feb '24, 500 .22 lead pellets is currently £20 or more but I get your point entirely. The lead free are still hopeless
Of course we are all worried and my main worry is that lead will be banned whatever the evidence , after all if they are prepared to do the damage they plan to the motor industry which will affect everyone why would they be bothered about the livelihood of RFD's or our hobby ? I hope it does go sensibly but I can't see it happening ☹
I didnt know banning lead was even a thing! However nothing surprises me these days. You are right, stock pile is my next step, at 65 I can probably buy enough to see my life time out. Since I was 10 I have used Lincoln Jeffries Marksman pellets with the odd tin of Eley Wasps on occassion which I was lucky enough to buy 200 tins from a gun shop closure in the late 70's. I dont get involved with with the snobbery about pellets; they go in the gun they leave the gun they kill the pest - mission accomplished! I have subbed your channel as you seem to talk straight and I think I need to find out where this lead thing is going or hasgone as your post is 11 months old as I watch.
Morning! I've gone trough every PB free pellet i can get my hands on and i have to say "no one should be hunting vermin with these at all" unless your at 20yards or less. muzzle energy is all over the place leading to groups well over 2 inches in some cases. Down range energy decreases greatly and no deformation of the pellet beyond 20 yards. PB pellet skirts do not expend to the required amount to make that seal when fired so air is getting past the pellet before it leaves the barrel resulting in the above. The residue left in the barrel requires constant cleaning, again effect the accuracy and muzzle energy. My plan, when the consultation is over and we know what direction we being pushed is "stock up on lead" or make my own. HAPPY SHOOTING WHILE YOU CAN!
John. you are spot on. Agreed.
Not to mention the harder pellets ricochet all the time really dangerous
Maybe that's their plan
Make even plinking unsafe so they can ban airguns altogether because "they're dangerous" and there's suddenly a lot of injuries
Very refreshing to find a channel that uses plain English in a one take warts and all format.
Well thank you :) . I know it's not pretty, but ... I'm not pretty either and to be honest, I'm bored with the sparkle of social media. Just looking to help and maybe eduacte a little where I can
Your video format is more professional than many others who do so much editing that it becomes hard to watch.
Well done!
Well that's very kind of you to say.. .thank you :)
Thank you for the video.. I agree with you, And what i did was contacted the store and asked them how many
tins they had left, And when they will order again, I bought nearly all the hn ftt they had for my hw97. And now the store will be putting in a large order for more.
Great explanation and something I hadn’t thought about.
Thank you for your kind words :) Glad it was informative
Great discussion of the topic. Lead free ammo for airguns will be a bigger problem than for firearms. I've reloaded lead free bullets (Barnes, Hornady, Maker, etc.) in my centerfires for years with no accuracy or performance issues, but here is the difference. Firearms barrels are designed to be shot with copper jacketed bullets to prevent fouling, so the rifling is can handle solid copper projectiles with no issues. Most airgun barrels and their rifling are designed for lead projectiles and I suspect the barrel will be damaged with continuous use of the harder lead free pellets.
And there you have it... perfectly worded. And far more concisely than me!
Fair play, one of the best reviews I've seen.
Thank you. That's very nice of you to say
I've shot air rifles since I was legally allowed to,and totally agree with what you are saying,non lead pellets will be the end of airgunning.Non lead pellets will be the same as shooting with a smooth bore.Accuracy and distance will go out of the window.Richochets will be dangerous.If the ban comes in,I will give up air rfle shooting.(Which is the aim of the nonlead pellet ban)
I wonder how they are going to police it when the ban does come into force? Owning an under 12flbs air rifle, we don't need a license.
Very well explained & understanding thanks
Hi Matt, when I was an avid Air Gun shooter 30 years ago I used to buy all sorts of types of pellets, I tried copper and steel back then just for fun, nothing ever work like lead, there just isn't the power to deform then from a sub 12 lbs gun and i cant see them increasing that, we may have to make our own in the future,
I've shot denim and it's amazing seeing the imprint on the pellet, me and a friend used to live across a field from each other and we would shoot the bollocks out of each others jeans on a weekly basis, fun times 😆
Your welcome re the mention on fields sports channel
Thanks Danny - I to tried nearly everything over decades. Lead is ...effective tbh... though remind me not to wear denims near you in a field ;)
Good point, I hadn't thought of that.
Hello from Catahoula Lake in Louisiana. I`m getting back into these for hunting and pest control. After some mental health issues I can no longer own anything that uses traditional modern weapons. But crossbows, black powder, and the most powerful air rifles on earth are perfectly fine. None of us will have any freedom left soon unless we physically do battle to retain it or reclaim it.
Liked and subbed Matt. I don't do much airgun shooting now but I have about 5/6000 rounds of .22 and about 2000 rounds of .177, and as I'm 70 now I think they're going to see me out!
You'll be shooting for decades yet man!!
That's brilliant, it the best explanation I've heard so far 👍
Well thank you :)
Love the biscuit tower 🤩 On a serious note your video pit across the understanding needed to raise the awareness that there are many issues surrounding the proposal of banning and restrictions upon purchasing lead ammunition. The many disadvantages of non lead alternatives including how it functions in weight distribution, how it is shaped by rifling of the barrel and ballistics do not react the same. We need to stick together as a group and make sure that you not only make representations to appropriate avenues I would also lobby your MP as they are the decision makers when it comes to changing laws. Excellent video 👏🏻👍🏻
Wise words....biscuit tower incluided :)
This is my second time watching your video because it’s true we need the lead we just do and there’s a reason why it’s been used for hundreds of years
One of the best videos I have seen on this subject.
This is my opinion without any real facts at hand. Barrel manufacturers could come up with a design of barrel and a non-lead slug that will work in sub12ftb but only if it is advantageous for them, so until a worldwide ban on lead not much hope. The best way forward for target shooting would be to catch the lead for reclaiming. I do not see a problem with hunting as the amount of lead is so small. Now we have to convince the powers to be.
Absolutely right - lead at airrifle ranges could be recycled- and hunting is so minimal with loads of the pellets in the pest we shoot anyway. How we convince anyone of anything is another thing!
I've noticed this in an older low power springer. I think your spot on!
Thnak you Doc... it's a real issue for lower power guns. A huge issue
@@mattscountry363
Ya, I'm surprised nobody has come out with an alloy pellet with a plastic skirt. CVA uses these on there muzzleloading bullets
Matt i am totally with you on the issue of non lead ammunition for sub 12ft air guns. I have tried the non lead and yes pretty much had the same results as yourself. Please keep up with the informative videos as they are very helpful. I for one will not be using any of the non lead ammunition in my guns after hearing what happens with them and seeing it and also they are a complete waste of money as most end up nowhere near the target area which is no good for a clean dispatch . Thanks again Matt and keep up the good work.
Thank you for your kind words. Sorry it took me so long to reply.
Thank you Matt .I am from Malaysia. Very far away. My name is Mahamad or Mat. I use a Remington 1100 shotgun for hunting. It spit out about 100 pellets / shot. Some pellets do get swolled some times. Your video is very informative and helpfull. In my country it's a previleage to be given a license to own a firearm by the government. It's very sad if I had to stop hunting due to lead poisoning. Thank you.
Thank you for you kind comment Mahamad :) Wishing you all the best of luck on your shooting trips :)
Really enjoyed that thanks
Well thank you Michael. I am grateful for your feedback :)
Agreed. I attended the Northern Shooting Show earlier in the year. BASC did a big presentation on lead versus steel. As a VERY high level summary, they said lead was not a major issue for most shotguns, and to a lesser extent, rifles, but much bigger challenges exist for air rifles. My focus was the impact on shotguns but the absence of viable air pellet solutions was very noticeable.
In theory it is a more complex issue. The soft but dense magic of lead is what makes them so amazing. To lose both density and the malleable pliability is a major issue. Even if lead replacements were super accurate, which sady I've not found, they would still pose a worry for impact, as the hardness of them will genuinely prevent what energy is retained, being dumped into the target quarry to finish the job. Ironically the BASC guys will attempt to prevent lead bans happening at traget ranges, (the lead is easily collected and won't impact the environment) but the hunter and pest controller might have an bigger issue. And thats ironic as hunting and pest control involves so few pellets anyway, and most are in the quarry when we are done!
Meisterkugeln .177 pellets .83g are what I have found to be the most accurate. They are flat nose and work great. I took a squirrel yesterday at around 15yards.
I've bought lead pellets for the rest of my life. Have about 100K pellets at home my HW's shoot best with, did the same with rimfire ammo. I,m not gonna throw my rifles in the lake because of some green extremists think to save the world. By the way, that with the jeans, you can also shoot in a bucket with water. Cheers!
As a sheetmetalworker, I have worked with copper and copper based alloys many times. Any forming of these materials results in rapid "work hardening." I wonder whether the manufacturing process of these pellets is responsible for their hardness. Post-forming annealing would be required to re-soften the copper. I dont know if the manufacturers carry out the annealing process. It should be possible to test this by heating the pellets in a flame until a colour change is seen, then either quench in water or allow to cool in air. Just a thought.
Thanks for the video. I've seen the rifling marks on pellets after retrieving them from gel - just like those we see on bullets. I have a couple of very accurate sub 12ft Lbs springers that I have tried both copper and the 'non-lead' pellets in (from same variety pack you showed). Disastrous results! So inaccurate that they could not be trusted for pest control at even short distances. The groups went from being almost single hole at 30yrds to about the size of a melon. Maybe a soft alloy/combo material might be an answer to the lead problem ...a Mercury-alloy perhaps?! (Just in case people comment on that....I'm joking! 😏)
Thanks again for the video.
Good job on an honest review Matt, if a pellet can't leave a barrel correctly stabilised then what happens down range is totally irrelevant. On top of all the negatives you've mentioned there is then energy retention and deformation. Can't help but think back to why promethius pellets didn't stick around in the late 90's.
Cheers Bruce. Those Prometheus horrors are still "a thing". They still exist i think. They lined the rifling of my old guns with plastic once and that was me done with them forever!
@@mattscountry363 Oh there are quite a few brands out there selling those. Gamo Lethal is same thing basically. It's fun to shoot as long as you have a fun gun that you're not worried to clean the plastic out of the riffle after 15-20 shoots.
Two years ago I bought 5K .22 Edgun pellets for my Matador and 2500 .20 JSB`s for my R1 carbine. At 73 yrs old, I think that will be enough.
David David David... you will be shooting those and needing more WAY before you go sailing through those clouds with your harp and wings! 73 is the new 23.
I have to say I hadn’t given it that much thought. But can’t argue the facts or your logic.
I know about the lead ban and I bought hundred pounds worth of pellets. I tried to buy more but my local gun had a shortage of the brand I wanted. I’m going to buy a couple of hundred pounds more now after your explanation.
I’m told that this won’t apply at the indoor range. But if there’s no pellets to shoot it will apply. I appreciate good old fashioned common sense with a bit of wisdom and the science of alchemy chucked in for good measure. Cheers. You made my mind up. To get stocked up. They’ll make the alloy and copper softer eventually. But these no harm being stocked up. Cheers
Thank you for your kind words Dave :) I understand that if a shooting range can prove the ammo is kept out of the environment then you're right, the lead ammo will still be ok. But what a mess for everyone else
Always interesting to hear another point of view.I tried non lead BSA pellets in .22,I put them through my AA S510 TDR and they were as accurate as h/n match which I use, amongst other pellets...the sticking point was once beyond 25yds they started to go all over the place,so really not good for pesting especially cos could miss and more to the point could wound an animal,and you are right about the rifling,couldn't find any on the non lead pellets.
Oh by the way...the AA loves the Bsa Fury and Red Star,lovely and accurate..but as they say,like people,we are not all the same...just like barrels..Good vid...just subscribed,and liked
Thank you, thank you very much
Interesting, thanks. I'm encouraged because I only shoot targets up to 25 yards
It was hard enough finding lead pellets my barrel likes never mind starting all over again with non lead.
Now THAT is a very important point! I too have had pellet fussy guns and it terrifies me to think some of them wont ever find a suitable pellet in non lead! Top comment award!!!
Well explained ,let's hope the lead ban never happens, some of the new lead free pellets are part plastic 😂 madness !! How much lead is left in the countryside by air gun hunters anyway ? Most will be in the quarry 😊 and most plinkers have pellet traps , it's another case of the nanny state trying to fix something that's not broken !
Or it's a final push to ban all firearms or make us give them up as they are scared of us rebelling... Crossbows next...
I agree with all your points and I imagine the stockpiling is already taking place judging by the lack of JSB pellets around! The Pro Hunter 17.8g slugs are ok out of my FX barrel and leave at 11.5ftlb and are pretty good up to 30m. The pellet companies will have to come up with a better material or we will all stop buying them.
glad to hear a slug woks for you out to a reasonable range :)
He’s 100% right also steel pellets ‘Steel against Steel’ will eventually ruin the rifling in the barrel and gradually all accuracy will be lost.
I wouldn't use anything but lead in my guns. Your right stock up on them now while you can but lead ban will kill the sport of air gunning
Hi Matt, some interesting points raised here. I've been doing a lot of testing in .177 using my BSA R10 SE now this rifle is brand new and under powered producing only 9.1 ft lb using H & N Baracuda Greens lead free. I have found them ( at this power level) to be very accurate 5pence groups at 30 0 and 50yds. I have examined shot pellets, trapped using plastic 2ltr water filled milk containers. They show little or know deformity but do show rifling marks as normally seen on lead pellets. At 50yds even at my low muzzle energy they carry enough speed to punch clean through a weighted baked bean tin. When I used playdoh ( don't tell my daughter) as a balistic medium at 50yds they showed penetration of 5.5cm. My initial conclusion is that when fired at or near 12 ftlbs these pellets become unstable and lose accuracy. However at the speeds my BSA puts out they do appear to be accurate, perhaps not as good as lead but pretty good. If you are able try reducing your power to see if that improves your groupings. I have shot the full tin of 300 pellets and my findings have not changed. Hope you find this of interest cheers Garry.
Very interesting theory.. lower power to improve accuracy. I cant easily lower the power but I will keep this in mind. Thank you Garry
@@mattscountry363 of course this is only for the ultra lite lead free 177 pellets. It's the only way I can explain why my BSA R10 SE is extremely accurate using H+N Baracuda Greens, when everyone else is struggling with them. I can only think that when a rifle is tuned to a high power level at .177 then the lighter lead free are travelling to fast and become unstable. My only concern is any long term damage caused to the rifling. I've always complained about the power power setting on this brand new rifle. To the extent that I was going to send it to John Bowket to sort. I am unable to change it up or down myself. When I get my Ixia back (as this has a power control lever) I will be able to play with the power settings as I pellet check the Baracuda Greens in .22. Will let you know what I find out.
Interesting video. All I can think of as a way to deal with the skirt expansion issue with something like copper is to make the skirts thinner gauge metal. But then that means the pellet is lighter, unless you put more weight in the head. Plastics are a no-no, environmentally speaking. I'm not sure what other materials could be substituted: copper as you've demonstrated is too rigid at that thickness and most metals are as bad as, if not worse even than lead for toxicity. Lead has density and malleability as it's properties.
Could this be a slow way to outlaw airgun ownership and use by a back door?
Been shooting air rifle’s nearly 50 yrs and if it comes to it and lead pellets can’t be bought, I’ll type into the search engine .22 pellet mould or .177 if that’s your thing . I’ll either buy a mould or make one. I won’t be putting that non pb down my barrel.
I've been using predator gto pellets and seem to be very accurate. the only problem I find is they ricochet and they don't come in 30 cal
engineer a soft plastic skirt for the front and back of the pellet that grabs the lands of the barrel. OR coat the entire pellet in a plastic coating like Remington did with their 9mm cartridges. They named it SYNTAX and it does NOT foul the barrel and completely enclosed the copper jacket and core. No lead pollution anymore.
14:21 the problem with that is the fact you would be replacing one toxic substance with another. Plastic is very damaging to the environment so it’s not really a solution. I think we just have to hope that either the ban doesn’t go ahead or a genius somewhere comes up with a safe alternative to lead.
Matt, Stock up now, as much as you can afford. I'm doing the same here. ScottinUSA
Again, another superb post Matt, so well explained 👍
It’s good you mentioned Subscriptions because I’d noticed for all the views this post has had, your Subscription numbers fall well short. Shame on those who regularly view and glean your useful info but can’t be arsed to Subscribe.
Please keep on giving us new posts, am sure your numbers will in time increase
Firstly, thanks Nick. Kind words. ...and ...It would be nice to have a few more subs, but it's is what it is. So long as people learn something, hey... it's a good thing.
The copper ones look like they might be work hardened from the manufacturing process, stamped out maybe ? Might be interesting to heat some up to red hot with a blow torch and then immediately drop them in water. It might soften them to the point that the skirt will then deform a bit more ? Just a thought.
Well done I’m really worried I have 10k worth of pcps designed for lead. I hope the bad does not come to sub 12 guns
Ive tried plenty of eco pellets through my airguns and not found one to be accurate, so their unsafe to use around the farm, lets hope barrel technologies improve to work with leadfree as it will happen.
If the skirt was made very thin it would expand into the rifling.
Got me first 3500 batch of air arms.. It's comming so I'm starting now.
Good Morning, one of my concerns is shooting at FAC level, pellets will go super sonic and accuracy will go wild
You are right and they will. Wont work ...will it?
Scary times ahead I fear. Wonder how the fashion for slugs will be effected.
Now THAT is a superb question.. Superb! Best guess from me is... it's gonna hurt them. Because they still need to grip that rifling. But never say never.. the shooting industry often has to over come these obstacles.
Don't worry you can always cast your own. And if there's no more lead you can use a less valuable soft metal like 24 karat gold. Nice and soft just like lead way cheaper.
If it even gets banned. You can still get them over seas easy.. and to say I will subscribe ❤
Have you tried annealing the copper pellets before use? Even if the manufacturer does this before dispatch, copper will slowly harden even if it's not worked. Alternatively at least 1 manufacturer uses copper polymer pellets in their .22 rimfire ammo. They perform better than lead up to 50 metres but fade away faster than lead beyond that distance.
Helo Barrie. No I haven't tried any process exept to shoot them, so far. I think the biggest issue between Air gun pellets and 22 rimmy is the skirt, and it's need to expand
fig roll , awesome
Nothing quite like them, right?
@@mattscountry363 yep
Mat... you need to use a pr of Parallel plyers and not the long nose type to exact a level force over both surfaces
Good thought... not sure the end result would be much different though.
I found you from Field sport Britten. Yes I think it's going to be a difficult thing to over come for the Air gunner, I just got my SGC and I bought a new cheaper shotgun because it's steel shot proffered, I do wonder will steel shot ricoushay on close rang clays, and cost. I may stock up on lead air gun pellets tho
It is a worry, isn't it? The entire airgun industry must be in some state of uncertainty
@@mattscountry363 absolutely, and if none lead is a lot More costly it will put younger people starting shooting. I have to confess I have not looked into the cost of none lead pellets.
I've not tested any myself as I refuse to put something through my barrel that the barrel wasnt designed for, but I've seen enough testing to know that the lead-free options that are currently available are hopeless. I have sold all of my rifles apart from my HW100, and stocked up with 50,000 Bisley Magnums. Until a widely accepted alternative projectile and/or barrels specifically designed for lead-free are available, I won't be buying any more rifles. I can't see there being much room for compromise in the proposed legislation because this can be used to the advantage of those who would like to see the end of firearms in the UK completely. Under no circumstances will I be using anything that compromises accuracy or efficiency, resulting in an increase of unclean kills. My priority will always be ensuring the control of pests can be carried out as humanely as possible.
How about if the copper was properly annealed that would make it softer and maybe take in the required flexibility?
Or thinner skirting
Surely,the fps of a non lead pellet will initially increase,which will make rifles tuned to the legal limit go above the limit.Has anyone chronoe'd to see the difference? Having an air rifle will be similar to having a popgun (cork)
The trajectory will be nowhere as flat,the distance will be less,and the knock down potential probably lost by at least 30%.I suggest we look at black powder smooth bores for comparisons.Black powder guns have a patch around the bullet,especially on rifled barrels,in order to accept the rifling.Maybe longer pellets that weigh heavier,with a soft coating would be the answer.
How are these lead free pellets going to affect the power output of old springers.
Are they going to put them over the 12 foot pound limit?
As I remember the general rule of thumb is lighter pellets give a higher output on springers and lower outputs on PCPs.
Will we be having to buy loads of different non lead pellets to check the power output to make sure they are still sub 12 foot pounds.
Good question - i found they were so damn tight that they were lower power.
@@mattscountry363
Bit of a nightmare really
Hey Matt, I just found your channel and subscribed, Im in the United States so not limited to the sub12 FPE restrictions but even in a 30fpe riffle the copper skirts don't expand . I do like slugs but they are Generally too expensive to target shoot with , I have a channel and some content as well so check it out if you have the time and inclination , I appreciated hearing your perspective on the lead ban and looking forward to exploring your content and seeing future vids . CHEERS 🍻
To add to my comment, I am no supporter of lead free, like some of your other comments I have spent a lot of time finding the best pellets for my barrels. My worry is whTdamage is being done to the barrels when using lead free? Maybe time will tell. Did you not use your pellet catching technique to obtain a shot lead free? I think we Have all become power fixated. I was so Dissapointed to find my new BSA only pushing out 10.8 ftlbs using QYS 9.56gr however at this low setting as I say lead free seems to be ok. One thing I would say is that although the groupings are 5 pence they do seem to spiral! However I shall do more testing to confirm this. Although I have tested out to 50 yds I would not hunt live quarry past 40yds. Also all testing was carried out in zero wind conditions. Be interesting to hear if anyone else has tested in .177 at lower power settings. My BSA power can't be altered so maybe someone who has a sub 12ftlb rifle but with a power adjuster could try at different power settings.... cheers Garry
I see lots of people saying if the lead ban goes ahead they will stock and hoard pellets but it’s likely their use will just not be allowed. Of course enforcing this will be virtually impossible but suppliers will also not stock lead so it’s use will slowly disappear.
The proposal of lead being allowed on ranges where 90% can be reclaimed can work for airguns but field shooting it’s impossible.
When this raised its head previously I didn’t pay much attention but with HSE being involved and the aggressive time frame this proposal certainly has more legs. Europe is certainly looking very hard at this and of course we are no longer governed by the same rules but their is a consensus on environmental concerns to be generally aligned.
I have found non lead ok at under 25 yards but the accuracy goes beyond this.
The consultation site is terrible so I don’t know what 8 year old put it together.
Paul, you are spot on. Partiucularly with these words " have found non lead ok at under 25 yards but the accuracy goes beyond this.
The consultation site is terrible so I don’t know what 8 year old put it together." I utterly agree on both fronts
Like your style of video making proper thumbs up. By the way is a fig role a biscuit or a cake?
A) Glad you like and B) My son and I have been debating that TODAY... and ....its both and neither. It's heavenly... that will have to suffice
What if they made the skirts thinner on the non lead pellets,would that work?
It might, but it is still far tougher than lead. However, it is a possibility.
What has the sport fishing industry done to replace lead weights. Whatever the new material is, it does deform almost as easily as lead.
Now this is something I pondered while awaiting a carp bite.... I think the material used for fishing weights is Tungsten. I believe H&N green are Tin. There are lots of metals to try but they need to be affordable to shoot in tins of 500
If there is a lead ban manufacturers will have to step up to create a pellet which does work. Perhaps thinner skirts will help?
Bio Ammo has a blue line of ammo that uses shot with the density of steel but the softness of lead. I would assume pellets could be made from same material. Downside might be performance.
That is shotgun ammo I'm referring to.
Hiya Dan. If they launch some I will of course try them. Rude not to! But I'm not certain they will find making pellets as simple as making round shot for shotguns. MAybe they will team up with a pellet factory.
Liked your thoughts & as a result subscribed, anything to help.
Thank you Steve :)
Has any individual or organisation ever explained in a convincing way what the problem would be in continuing to use lead pellets in air guns?
No T, they haven't. They just....haven't bothered
Do any manufactures make annealed copper pellets or could you anneal some & see if there is a difference?
You're the second suggester.. I will be looking into it
@@mattscountry363 I know some american shotgun shell manufacturers sell annealed copper slugs to combat the same problem
Why don't they make the walls of the skirt a bit thinner so they stretch? Maybe with the head 'egg-shaped' to make up some weight?
Ah great question. And on lead the pellet skirts do come thin and thick on different ammo choices. BUT....lead can deform back to shape when it's fired... so a small ding in the skirt wont kill accuracy too much. But a small dink in a copper skirt won't stretch back to shape under the pressure of a sub 12 ft lb gun so I guess they make the skirts tough enough to not dink in the first place... well that's my best guess, any how!
How many houses have old lead pipes, will they ban that to,?
It's even deeper than that. Every roof on nearly every house has lead flashing to join chineys to roofs and for edges and joints. All of the rain water washesover that and has done for centuries AND then goes into the drains.
Yes we can't have something getting in the group that comes from the ground
Interesting
This doesn't bother me, as I'm in the process of enquiring about a diablo pellet mould, which people can simply make their own pellets!
moving away from lead shot would be terrible for practical shooting w/ mini rifle, the ricochet danger with steel or other replacement would be much higher, even the danger with fullbore at longer distances would be higher as well.
I think that the lead ban will be implemented, costs and dangers to the community be damned. the only hope I think is for some set of exemptions or that the ban is targetted toward specific uses or areas.
I have been an airgunner for over 40 years and have tried most non lead pellets and i can honestly say not one of the non lead pellets would group consistently, the power was also all over the place. There are no real alternatives that can perform like lead and i dont think there ever will be, thats why my shooting mate and i have around 25000 pellets between us and we are still buying more. Also these non lead pellets will soon destroy your barrel and accuracy will be non existent.
Stock up lads , I’m off down my mates at the tyre shop to collect all the lead wheel weights. I’ve a guy with a machine shop I’m going make a few pellet dies
They are going to have to put on a hard wax driving band or something similar, the prices will go through the roof.
Maybe!!!
Have you tried any lead free slugs and if you have are they any good ?
I dont have a powerful enough gun to use slugs, so no
@@mattscountry363 yes but lead free pellets are too light so wouldn't the fact that lead free slugs would be lighter than the usual ones same as the pellets wouldn't that make them ideal for sub 12 air rifles. Normal slugs are too heavy so lead free might work great just a thought thanks for your reply
May have to use H&N Prometheous pellets....if they still make them.
Really...don't. They are the worst pellets I ever tried...worse than any of this new round of "green" non lead pellets. I'd never use a Prometheus in my guns
have you tried the steel pellets with plastic skits please ?
I have used an alloy one with a plastic seal that's been on the market for decades, marketed with enough snake oil to sink a ship.... Pr0/\/\3th35 ... utter utter rubbish. TRULY DIRE.
@@mattscountry363 well that is a shame. on paper it solves the problem. But on paper and the real world are seldom the same :), thank you for replying to me Sir.
Hi. Interesting video thanks. It just occurs to me that lead free could mean anything. There are copper alloys, tin alloys etc. I'd like to use leadfree as lead is poisonous to humans and pets and i only use my gun in the garden. So I'm going to test every brand i can find till i find one that does well in my gun. Lol I should make a video of the results!
I shoot all disciplines and am very concerned. The proposed lead ban doesn’t work for shooters. The lead actually acts as a micro lubricant in the barrel, steel will not!
True fact. And moreover, having tried some other non lead since, they strip out the lead that WAS in my rifling, leaving it worse. Take 3 or 4 lead shots to get back!!
My experience with the none lead is past 20 yards there is not any accuracy this can make them extremely dangerous I have used a dedicated 1.77 and 22 there is no difference 12ft lb is not enough energy and this could without being melodramatic kill our sport I will keep trying but I'm not holding my breath
I do wish people would stop conforming to the insane ideas of people who just want to destroy and suppress the sport. I for one will not be damaging my air rifles by using non-lead projectiles, or risking an errant unconrolled shot. Back in the 80s a company produced a Sabot for air rifle that loaded via a pen/plunger. The projectile was aluminium coated with copper, & it sat in a ptfe skirt which detached once it had exited the barrel. Why can't manufacturers go back to that design ?. The ptfe made a terrific seal in the barrel - leading to excellent power and accuracy. The projectile was non lead - but travelled accurately and far.
cos ptfe is more toxic than lead once it brakes down into the environment. you look on the periodic table and there's nothing as good, cheap and as plentiful as lead. its the asbestos thing all over again and as i always say about that stuff. "its perfect for everything you use it for, only downside is it kills people" same with lead.
Buy bulk and be thankfully pellets are so cheap compared with centrefire ammo. I keep at least a decade worth of ammo at all times for each hunting firearm. I buy target ammo as I use it bc I use it at the range and can re zero, but I like to keep one load zeroed and that’s what I use with that gun
are you worried about lead poisoning? especially indoors since the impact caused lead dust that will get in your bloodstream?
Good question.. and no. I'm not. I'm sure many people are, and they're likely far wiser than me, so please make your own choices. The dust from s tin of pellets is... well zero tbh.
@@mattscountry363 true
Send your views to basc who are compiling evedance to submit to the HSC , there a big voice helping to save our lead ammo for air rifles
I bet lead is still ok in any other caliber projectile though
this is a potential long term fulll "every ammo" ban
My simple solution is buy as much lead ammunition as possible! Act accordingly 🇬🇧🏴
Dead-fly biscuits for ever!
Gotta love a "Fly Cemetry", right :) ?