accuracy testing JSB pb free air rifle pellets vs the H&N ftt green in the shadow of a lead ban..
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Europe is facing an upcoming lead ban, brought about by politicians who have no idea the effects it will have on the sport, industry, trade and conservation roles that small calibre rifles employ.
Here i test the best lead free airgun pellets available and look at how accurate they are and wether they offer a safe alternative to lead pellets.
we have the jsb pb free exacts and the H&N ftt green pellets on test.
the rifle is my Air arms xti50 the scope is a discovery ed prs 5-25x56
the risk of ricochet is greatly increased with the pb free ammunition aswell as greatly reducing the range of humane pest control
A full lead ban will reduce target shooting sports to that of a lottery and going forward will mean significant changes in equipment. All of this costing huge amounts of money, whilst the world teeters on the brink of a global recession .Absolute madness!
im using my lead lined pellet trap, ironically its the safest option for collecting the lead free pellets.
Whats the piont in pushing out to greater range . As with so many your not practising proper marksmanship technique so why bother .
I thought id pin this one right at the top 🙄
I'm not saying it to be an arse or something . I'm saying it because anywhere I look on utube everytime I search for reviews on one air rifle or another doesn't seem to matter who it is that's doing the reviewing it's always the same .people just seem to blat pellets off , I mean theirs usually some level of trigger control going on but no sort of breathing technique whatso ever .
I just hoped to see somebody doing it properly that's all .
@@tillysgunstocks I'll do you one better mate: everybody should know that when you're changing between types of ammunition, your group locations may vary. Therefore, any time you change ammunition, you may need to re-zero the rifle.
Also, you want to clean your rifle after shooting lead-free ammo? Lead-free ammo is harder and doesn't deform. There is nothing to deposit into the barrel / rifling. Lead ammunition does deform and does leave deposits into the barrel. Did you clean your barrel after shooting your leaded pellets? Did you oil your barrel before shooting or otherwise ensure your pellets are seated properly and the breech has a proper air seal when firing? I don't think so.
You don't know this, yet are flexing that vomit-inducing stock and that fat grip for whatever reason...
@@tillysgunstocks Geez, you sure seem to get some toxic comments here bud. Interesting video, not a shooter myself though I wish I could afford taking it up, been many years since I last held an airgun. I just felt a strong urge to counterbalance a bit on these bellend comments, guess some people just eat their lemons peel and all.
Hope you have a good one!
Well if we are going to be forced to use lead free then we need 12 ft lbs increased to maybe 18 or even 20 to compensate and still no FAC needed
They was us to quit shooting
Not a chance of that happening. In Scotland you need a Licence - and the Police are involved in that.
I tried the ftt green, admittedly it was windy. But at 30m were all over the show. Really hope the ban doesn't happen but if it does might limit me to sticking to own land an not shooting perms cos won't risk inaccurate pellets or one's that won't humanely do the job
You have been very controlled in expressing your views on lead free.
I am quite depressed at the thought of loosing my air rifle shooting, the lead free's don't work.
less lead in the environment is a good thing for the future generations.
The pellet manufacturers will work on improving lead free pellets to gain sales.
@@geoff4383 Lead in the environment does depend on the form it takes, it is found in mineral form in the environment literally comes out of the ground.
Using it in fuel and pumping it into the air was terrible and they knew it even when they started and rightly gave it a bad name. It is true that shotgun pellets are particularly bad for water birds as they are about the right size for them to consume as grit, shotguns can effectively use steel shot its just those users have ignored the voluntary transition.
Places like ranges that can accumulate a lot of lead can just put in place control measures to catch the ammo and then it can be recycled to make more. I use pellet catchers for my practice.
The proposals to blanket ban all lead ammunition to include bullets and pellets is extremely poorly informed but its easy to pick on the shooting community as a minority group, there is no current alternative if you intent to shoot pests. Again I have heard the ill informed say well you shouldn't be killing anything, I don't believe those people are directly involved with growing food many vegetarians are very happy if you take the rabbit eating their veg. Lead pellets are a humane way of doing so and to put it bluntly I don't eat the head so no risk of lead entering the food chain that way.
Went on a rant there myself which the chap doing the video obviously held back from posting himself. Not targeted at you just voicing some of my frustrations.
@@geoff4383 No excuse. Less unelected bureaucrats are better for everyone and the environment. How much lead “pollution” is from pellets and what’s the actual measured impact of that. Just a power grab.
Thank you for another informative video and for sharing your results and especially your time.
Such a good video 👍but oh dear, I feel quite depressed after watching this. I believe ‘the powers that be’ want to kill our sport off but they’re simply not thinking when comparing relatively small quantities of lead used by air rifle owners compared to 12 bore cartridges ( some of which are now being offered lead free but how well do they work?)
Better start building up a good supply of lead pellets 🙄
I bought JSB Exact's, Jumbo's, Hades, Kings and .22lr rimfire for the rest of my life. The choice is easy. Keep on shooting lead or dump my HW's, Air Arms and Anschutz rimfire in the lake. I tried a tin JSB lead free Jumbo's 11.75gr pellets and it's up to 10 meters right ok but longer distance is a no go. Tanks for your video mate! Cheers!
I currently shoot a .177 HW95k ...pest control out to 40yrd to 45yrd max ( all groups within a 5p piece ) and target out to around 65 yard ( 5p pieces at 65 yards ) using 8.4gr RWS Superdomes and there isn't a non lead pellet available that comes anywhere close to being acceptable
If they do ban lead pellets except for range shooting clubs, it begs the question of what measures will be taken to regulate their use.
In theory, the club could purchase pellets on behalf of its members and keep them under lock and key. The member signs for the tin, its weight is recorded and at the end of the session the tin and weight is signed back in, having been compared to the weight of the total collected in the traps behind the targets.
No pellets can be removed from the club's property and the renewal of the club's licence will depend on submitting to regular weigh-ins by the appropriate authority.
A gloomy prospect.
When I hunted vermin I used paragon pellets , alloy mix heads with plastic base you pushed together , from a Theoben Rapid 7/12 , excellent for pest control .
Good video thanks. I actually welcome lead free pellets as I only shoot in my garden and always worried about my dogs eating lead pellets left in the grass. Always only up to 25 yards too. I can totally understand the valid points you make about pest control at higher ranges though.
You could clean up your pellets.. because any other pellet your dog eats is going to have very bad effects anyway. I don't think a dog will just randomly eat a pellet anyways.
Thanks for your reply, very good points. Also, I've been told not to use leadfree in my new springer because they are too light and it'd be like firing my rifle empty. Some are indeed marked "PCP Only". I hadn't noticed
I have used the jsb's .25 at 16grains and I use them in my hw80 and 95 they are my go to pellets for hunting as they pick up a good bit of fps and fly just that bit more flatter than the lightest lead at 20 grains in .25.
Lead free pellets may be fine and dandy for target use ,but the ones I have tried for pest control are far too light and don't deform at all . The killer shot takes two to dispatch quickly and humanely . I have tried lead free ammo for my secr firearms as well and apart from the extortionist price ,it again doesn't kill as efficiently as lead !! Been shooting all my life , ,55years
Thanks you for the very informative video. It appears mass is the real issue. I guess short of using exotic dense metals it's not going to be a easily overcome issue.
pretty much every gun manufacturer have the disclaimer use lead pellets only so not sure where any warranty would lie with lead free pellets
Please do some tests with less expensive guns and springers etc.
Tin and zinc have an affinity for lead. Probably best to completely clean barrel first.
Thought there was a provision for target shooting where lead capture was feasible?
Those "green" pellets are 2x as expensive as the lead pellets and beyond 25 yards aren't as accurate. I'm glad I have well over 100,000 lead pellets in reserve!
Here we are talking.....Buy 500.000 more or dump your air rifles in the lake. i just bought for an extra 900 Euro JSB Exacts, Jumbo's, King's and rimfire ammo. Next month again. and again.
Fisherman have had a ban on small leads for 20+ years, we still catch fish. Are you saying it's going to stop you feeding your family?
I am surprised lead pellets weren't banned around 20 years ago. Just scattering small pieces of lead outdoors, often on farmland or wilderness if shooting animals seems like it wouldn't be allowed.
Solid pieces of lead are not very dangerous. When they are broken down into dust, vaporized, inhaled or consumed like in water pipes is when it is dangerous.
Little or no worry from lead bullet just so small and expensive tire lead from automobiles is far more plentiful
Let's ban wheels
Lead (Pb) is a natural element. Whereas composite alloys aren’t. How can Polly mags be more environmentally friendly? Are we expected to go and pick them up? I better not give them any ideas LOL😊
Lead is toxic regardless of being “natural” which in metallic form is very rare mate. It’s normally found as a sulphide in nature. Some of the most toxic things on earth are natural and not synthetic. I knew my chemistry degrees would come in handy at some point. 😉. I’m a keen air gunner and can’t believe there’s no proposed subtlety to this proposed lead ban. The vast amount of lead in the shooting community comes from shot guns blasting it everywhere even if you hit the target. Over 6000 tonnes annually I’ve read. Air rifle pellets are nowhere near. They usually stick in a squirrel or rabbits head; or pellet trap. I intend on leaving BASC this year because I don’t feel the adequately represent us air gunners. They’re only bothered about Toffs with Range Rovers and shotgun issues. 😢. Stay safe and happy shooting pal. 👍
thanks for your very useful and well explained vid,i agree with your remarking about developement on non lead ammunition.I dont want to comment on the politics behind the lead ban(its bad for my blood pressure!) but im about to see a lifetime hobby destroyed ,not just for me but the many other FT shooters ,(average age in my group is 70)anyone want to buy a collection of quality airguns cheap?
buy enough stock so you can ride out the change until they find something that works as good , I am going for about 10000 177 pellets and 3000 22's
They are ready to charge you for the air you breath, they just don't know how to meter it yet.
Similar results .. still cant find any lead free pellet that shoots well when out doors and shooting out past 25 yards to 55 yards in either my FWB800, HFT500 OR FTP900.
Try copper
Thanks for posting video just wondering where does lead come from 😅
For sub 12, any pellet that ISN'T lead I think won't even be ethical enough for pest control work, even if you are able to stack pellets on pellet on a paper target.
It's definitely marginal, the h&n barracuda greens at the greatly reduced ranges are just about acceptable.
Should there be no lead options going forward, it will mean a potential significant upping in speeds whilst still remaining sub12.
We've ran them at a full 12ftlb in my mates wound down fac rapid and they certainly hit hard enough. The accuracy though.. another matter entirely.
@@tillysgunstocks good point about the sub12 rating. If heavy pellets are no longer available we will be able to wind up the speed and use old stock heavy lead pellets (naughty)
Would it be possible to use lead free hollow points and put tungsten putty in the end. I’m a carp fisherman and use something called dark matter from Korda. It’s actually heavier than lead.
Would it make the pellet to unstable. But if you look At Diablo pellets there head is top heavy
@@imdaprophet Tungsten is more expensive than lead , so the price will go up if they were made of tungsten , there also barrel wear issues that need to be addressed.
@@patthewoodboy I think you miss read my post.
I wondered why my local gun shop had hardly any pellets obviously either worried about the ban or people are buying them up why they can 😂
How much lead you shoot to make it bad for the environment? I've been having airsoft almost 45yrs & never found enough used pellets on the ground to make a .177 pellet. We use .177 & .22. My older brothers, my dad. So I know it's over 75 years worth of free hand plinking in my backyard 15-25 yards distance. All the wildlife still out there. Keep it lead, it's safer. Alloy bounce off somewhere
If the weight is the issue why not just make the pellets from Bismuth like they did for shotgun ammo? It is almost as heavy as lead, has a low melting point and is pretty soft.
Outstanding review.
Thanks for sharing 👍
All that waiting for the latest air arms, now a lead ban is imminent 😮. Honestly it's unbelievable.
Good luck guys.
Agreed. And when you think of the guys spending ££££'s on optics - ir, digital, thermal - all that kit will suddenly become worthless. Will the government compensate owners? Probably not.
Buy Lead for the rest of your life mate.
He'll there is no talk of banning lead pellets go and enjoy your shooting do not let it twist you head off
Where is your shooting glove from? Love your videos, so much information and not complicated bs 🤣
It's an anschutz glove, it's great for cutting the pulse down in my left hand.
Yeah I don't do complicated 😉
Very good review. I find H&N ftt greens fine up to 25 yards in my .22. Not accurate at the same distance using my .177, simply not enough weight sub 12ft lb over the same distance.
H & N do a barracuda green that I find works very well indeed in an Air Arms gun; they don't deform on impact like lead does and they may riccochet a bit more, but they are almost as accurate as good lead pellets.
My hobbies are fishing, shooting (mostly air rifles) and bicycles. The looming ban of lead pellets for airguns is depressing tbh. I do care about the environment and ecology and I don't want to cause unnecessary pollution. We don't use lead split shot for fishing anymore, that's fine and it makes sense, zinc split shot is an effective replacement. I can get on board with using steel shot for shotguns although it renders old English game guns obsolete and useless which is a shame, but yes lead is toxic and every cartridge fired scatters another ounce of it all over the place which isn't good. However, when it comes to air rifles and .22 rimfire there just isn't an effective replacement for lead. I shoot targets with a backstop on my own property and recover the spent lead. In my view we should be allowed to continue using lead air pellets for target shooting and for pest control purposes on ethical grounds. A reasonable compromise should be agreed, for target shooting we can take demonstrable steps to catch and recover lead pellets and continue shooting at clubs where future remediation of a contaminated area is feasible. Looking at this cynically, it does seem like sweeping restrictions on effective ammunition and inevitable price hikes on pb-free stuff are a back door route to stop people shooting in the first place. Looking at it more positively, there will be lots of money to be made by companies who can make the best performing pb-free pellets or perhaps come up with new technology, new barrel/pellet systems (I'm reminded of the FX 'smooth twist' concept), lubricants, hardened barrel liners, polygonal bore & ammo, micro rifling etc.
Any videos using these in FAC rated.
So the thousands of lead pellets I own will the government be buying them all back or will I continue using them
Hey Tommy, the CC function helps tremendously. I can actually keep up with you and now I really enjoy your video a lot more.
Fyi, there is a video somewhere on TH-cam that provides a mold for pellets and slugs. I don't recall the website but the pellets and slugs are generally pretty good in .22 and consistent. I assume you will probably end up pouring and designing your own ammo eventually. You strike me as someone who is very meticulous down to the smallest detail so it wouldn't surprise me if you chose to pour custom aluminium pellets and slugs on your own.
Assuming you do, i think that you would still prefer heavier vs lighter, but would it make a difference if the ammo is denser or is it a weight variable that makes a difference?
Stay Safe. Be Well. GOD BLESS.
Hi mate, I'm really glad the subtitles help 😀
I've thought about swaging my own slugs, it's something on the to do list. I need to find a friendly local CNC place to make me a bunch of dies that I can tweek and fine tune until I've got just what I want. You are absolutely correct, I'm so pedantic it's sometimes a burden 🤣
I always use the CC function .. basically tinnitus has screwed me hearing up ...
Thanks for that, very informative and interesting as usual. Have you thought about trying the new BSA greens?
Greenstars
I think the BC is a lot lower with Pb free pellets
more power on the rifle and / or complete redesign of the pellets profile ?
It would seem that 0.177 is to light to be accurate around 45 yards.
I've found that the H&N green in 0.22 at 9.57 grain in my artemis p15. Travel at 656fps . It maybe that we need to change to .22 if non lead is mandatory. Be good if you could do a test on the H&N's 0.22 . We would benefit from 16 ft lbs as the legal limit if hunting is to be humane. I wonder if the powers that be are considering this. I believe 12 ft lb was pulled out of the air when they set it as the legal limit. If non lead is decided upon then there needs to be a compromise.
I shoot 10 metre and the bull is 0.5mm. Non lead would not work. To inaccurate. I do realise that the indoor target sports will not be affected by the lead ban since 100% retrieval of the pellets is possible. I'm concerned with the damage to the outdoor shooters
cast a sheet of lead to your desired thickness IE projectile length and use a leather punch of the same diameter as your airguns bore to cut your own slugs out thats what i do for my slingshot and believe me near perfect trajectory without spin stabilization so try it if you are meticulous and care about precision... makes it more fun too when you get results with your own craft
With non lead being so much lighter, do you think there may be a calibre shift in uk .
For example.22 or .25 in sub 12?
What fpe are you getting in the XTI50 with the lead free?
Good point
A very interesting video about the difference between lead and the lead free pellets available for air pistols/rifles . I've been experimenting with a variety of various types of pellet. Lead free and otherwise. And yes. There is a difference between them. Especially with the rebound of the lead free. Which can get quite hectic if you're just a pistol shooter for the most part like me. Still. One wonders what the powers that be were thinking of when bringing in the blanket ban without any real thoughts of a decent alternative to the lead pellet. Depleted uranium perhaps? Lol. Just kidding. Although I do remember demolishing model kits when I was way younger using plasticine with my 177 Old Daisy air rifle. Which I still have but the poor thing is in desperate need of repair. Blame the idiot that had for a while till I got it back. So when I get the chance. It will be off to the repair shop for a service and straightening up of the barrel. But yea. Finding a decent alternative to lead without losing performance Is going to be a tricky one.
Lead free can be quite pricey, I think I may have shot a solid copper pellet with a steel tip and it had great penetration and decent expansion.
I mean from casting bullets and powder coating them when shot even from 7.62x39 or 300 blackout at a full loading the powder coat does not break it kind of encapsulated the lead.
Over never had a problem with barrel wear and bimetal jackets but with pellets it would be to expensive to make.
It could honestly come down to casting your own or importing.
For firearms owners lead free .22lr is quite expensive and bigger calibers even moreso.
But I have had good resets with steel and tungsten shot in shotguns.
This is kind of getting stupid sure ban it for use outside by for indoors, pest control or on your property no.
Maybe they want to make it so expensive or impossible to shoot.
Everyone knows the risk of lewd but this is solid lead it's not a soot or soluble and nothing like leaded fuel (you can still buy real lead tel additives for fuel that's very toxic.
Solid lead can't even be compared.
No ban on military lead ammunition then 🙄
Nor depleted Uranium either 🙄
Where is your source for an imminent ban? I knew it was being considered but that is not certain.
The Government is expected to make a decision on the proposals in 2023, suggesting that any ban on lead shot could be in force by late 2024. that's all I could find
@@redauwg911 If its tories then all their mates and donators shoot.. If labour then say good by to lead and shooting full stop
Isn't there bismuth shot not being considered
H&N Match Green are extremely accurate but they're pretty expensive as far as pellets go.
Iv tried copper pellets and alloy pellets
Do they effect the barrel after a while.
I know they are both softer than the steel barrel riffeling. But I’m sure after time it would have an effect
Enjoy it while you can
I'm currently using Zan 10gr slugs in my .177 FX Dream pup but just seen they now do a lead free version in 8.5gr so will probably give them a try once the ban comes in. They also do a .22 leadfree 15gr that I'm looking at trying in my other pcp.
I've got a video on the pb free zans here mate..be very cautious trying them
@@tillysgunstocks I've tried them in an Air Arms gun; they work reasonably well but shoot low because they're a bit tight in the barrel. They really need to be a tenth of a mm smaller with a thinner, more flexible skirt to work properly. That or thinner with an O ring on them even?
The issue I have is lead free will never equal lead for expansion, size to weight ratio, accuracy, slightly deformed skirts won't easily reform whilst travelling down the barrel. Sub 12 maybe ok but my set up currently is 25cal 34gr/983fps or 38gr/988fps slugs. Sub moa 150yds is easy. I hunt out to 250yds. Lead free will be shite. You would have to detune the rifle so much. If I put the 16gr JSB PB free in mine they would be well 1200fps on minimum, garbage. Then I would hate to think what my 30cal would be like. Pass through would be 100%, where as at 30yds at 82ftlb I can retain any slug I use in either set up. Lead free won't, so ricochets would be frequent. Yes I agree to shotguns using PB FREE, but precision isn't important with those. Rifles 100%it is
if we have steel pellets what damage will it do to the barrels.
Last I heard from BASC a few weeks back is it won't affect air rifles
You may wanna re read their website pal.
It clearly states this
Based on these findings the HSE has launched a six-month consultation on the following proposals for England, Wales and Scotland:
ban on the sale of lead shot
ban on the use of all types of lead ammunition for live quarry shooting including lead shot, shotgun slugs, lead bullets and airgun pellets
ban on the use of lead shot for outdoor target shooting with possible exemptions for licensed athletes at licensed ranges with appropriate environmental protection measures
ban on the use of lead bullets for outdoor target shooting with possible exemptions for shooting at licensed ranges with appropriate environmental protection measures
mandatory labelling of the packaging of lead ammunition regarding the hazards and risks of lead.
Maybe the .22 Cal' will come into its own more with the Lead Frees?? (being Inherently heavier pellets)
My lower powered .22 air rifle likes the lighter pellets
One possibility would be to go up in caliber for sub 12. Not ideal though. I wouldn't shoot steel with them, too dangerous.
13 degrees “hot weather”. Poms are just not used to sunlight. Haha
To be fair we don't get enough sun as I'd like... it's been up in the 30s the last week though and I've been sweating my bag off 🤣
I thinks it will work its self out eventually 👍
Hi, what do you think about the wear of the barrel with the lead frees, some say it doesn't wear and others the opposite, we hear everything!, what do you think?. Thanks in advance
I'm going to compare the jsb exact lead free vs h&n baracuda lead free. The weights are closer than the fttgreen!. 6.79grs vs 6.48grs.
Depleted uranium might be a good alternative to lead I mean the government didn’t mind throwing them about in Iraq 🤔
Excellent comment. 👍
They also won't mind using all the extra lead they have to make bullets for their next war. Maybe they already know they need it. During ww2 every gate, fence and park railing was ripped out we were so desperate for metals. They never put them back either. In the UK very recently they have toughened the law against gathering wood from public places and banned the sale of wet wood and coal. I smell war on the horizon. "Have you got a licence to eat that leaf?"
I will stock up
With 5.7mm pistol cartridges the lead-free bullets travel faster and penetrate body armor better. That's about the only benefit of lead-free ammunition. There is a way around... Buy lead and cast your own pellets/bullets.
Sub 12 maybe the problem !
I think the powers that be will still allow lead pellet use by licensed pest controllers only stopping the hobbyist hunter, the rest of us will just have to enjoy expensive 25 yard spinner shooting or give up.
Has anyone made lead free slugs? It might help increase the weight and slow the pellet for the twist rate
I’m down to my last 2000, I’d better stock up.
You have 5 years to stock up
I buy a sleeve of 5 once a month. The problem is I haven’t tested most of the batches. I used to buy 3 tins of different batch numbers weigh out a 100 of each then test them and then buy the rest of the sleeve from the same batch.
But now I’m just hording pellets. I have 24 sleeves of Jsb exacts. If this lead ban is coming I’ll buy a sleeve a week. My goal is 50 sleeves
Ive just read that the lead ban was dropped for airguns.
As a target shooter that 25 yard accuracy is just not good enough
With 850ish fps being the optimum speed for a diablo pellet wouldn't achieving this speed with a lighter non lead pellet travelling at same higher speed help eradicate the more extreme pellet driftn with the a lighter projectile 🤔🤔
depleted uranium?
With what i have seen every lead free pellet is just a joke and there is going to be a lot of wounded animals about with the pest controllers who abide with the law and i reckon hundreds of others breaking the law with what they have stashed over the years.
I think they will be able to make lead free pellets that will work fine for target shooting at limited distances indoors, but for outdoor shooting and specially for hunting, I very much doubt they will be able to do that.
They are and will continue to be very vulnerable to wind.
For hunting, this increases the risk of wounding the animal a lot.
On top of that, are they losing so much energy downrange that this will increase the risk of wounding a lot as well.
It is far from humane and ethical to hunt with pellets like this in my opinion.
You would need to increase the caliber and speed to achieve the same as before with lead pellets.
And still you will need to make the pellets in a way that you achieve the same accuracy you get from lead pellets, and that is extremely difficult to achieve with lead free pellets at higher speeds.
And they are for sure going to be much more expensive.
I think this will result in a large reduction of people hunting with air guns and most likely this is exactly what many want to achieve with this ban.
You poor Bas----'s no more lead!
We can make good lead free stuff it will take much more r and d tho
Have you tested the power as could up the power for lead free also would a un choked barrel be better as led free seem to be harder just some thoughts.
With the thin skirts and narrow ring around the head it negates some of the "hardness" of going pb free. The barrel /rifling fit is pretty decent. Going choke less won't really help,itll actually just highlight any imperfections in barrel fit,that a choke overcomes.
😉
Primarily the downfall of the pb free is the lack of mass/weight and the inherent stability it adds downrange.what we really need to try is going to much longer pellets to get the weight up and much more delicate skirts for a decent barrel seal. Tbh the slugs are not a bad bet but they really need work on the design in pb free.alot are way to hard to even make it out the barrel
So slugs with an un choked barrel might be the way forward
'imminently facing a lead ban' is quite a statement. works if you are trying to scare people into watching a video! In case you havnt noticed we are not in europe and so the consultancy is a uK affair. HSE, who are leading the consultancy now have extended the examination period for at least another few months, only after which can a decision be made, and only then will a schedule for implementation (if there is one) be proposed. that will then be open to further discussion and decisions and could in fact exempt .177, clubs that can reclaim 90% or both. The fact is that nobody knows what in the end will happen, with small calibres, not the HSE not GTA and not BASC, but I do know its not 'imminent' unless imminent means ‘in the next few years, maybe…😊
Hi Tony, well as we know, we should expect something of an outcome and a plan going forward, to the consultation extension within the next couple of months, that's pretty imminent...😉
Personally I feel it's more of a 'when' than an 'if' on the ban, wether it'll be 5-10 years who knows.. I hope we can just be left alone and be responsible for our own lead collection and mitigating risks with handling,but obviously we don't know best.
Id genuinely be interested to hear of any development on the pb free stuff you may have done?
Anyhow it's cool to have you on the channel, I hope you've subscribed 🤔
You should swing by for a shoot, bring one of the ghosts down for a play, that's a bit of kit that's right up my street
😉
question is would going over 12fp sort them out? go for 16fp like Spain? or would that just make the pellet problems worse? As speed does not always work it just exaggerates mistakes -- larger bore size would that work? --- Given the amount of vermin these days (rats) and their size especially in and around London air rifles are the only way --- mind the media would even find fault if we used clubs and chased them all the while espousing how we should be rid of them ---
Its a gun ban by other means.
What is the point in shooting inaccurate ammo?
Not only is lead free ammo garbage, its expensive inaccurate garbage.
When you miss with lead ammo... You missed.
When you shoot with lead free ammo. . Accuracy is accidental.
How was your 25yrd shots acceptable?
Im a field target shooter
At 25yrds I get 1 hole groups using lead JSB. I can happily shoot staples out of targets or sideways playing cards. Cutting the card.
At 50yrds I get 5p sized groups. Thats shooting sitting FT style.
You know mate 👍
@@manofkentcatapultsgunsando5069
Ive compared some prices...
Lead free ammo costs 5x the price of lead.
Yet the best lead free ammo gives around the same accuracy as budget 'Marksman' ammo after you have shaken the tin.
@@sahhull Yes mate , unfortunately this thing hits Air rifle, shotgun , and centerfire, your right it all to do with getting rid of shooting sports
Looks like I'll be selling my lead pellets on the black market then!🎉
So lead free means lots of injured animals as you can’t trust a pellet to hit your target. That sounds way better than one animal in a million being injured by eating a lead pellet.
Copper. Aluminum. Mix. Might work
I have tried H&N lead free in my Marauder pistol and they were very good.
Cast your own ammo, it's not difficult to do.
I wouldn't worry mate, not when we're gonna have some heavier lead-free slugs enter the market. I'm quite looking forward to having the challenge to find a new slug type pellet and test them in the smooth twist barrels.
At sub12?
if moulds are available for sale , i will make lead pellets i have casting experience. id sell them screw the greens
Lead ban is a good idea. It is pretty awful watching birds die from lead poisoning. The lead free products will improve once they become mainstream.
Has anyone tried pb free in a FX smooth twist barrel ?
Can somebody tell me why buying vast quantities of lead pellets now is such a good idea. If the very worst happens and a total ban across all forms air rifle shooting comes into force then I expect the law to rule it is illegal to SHOOT lead pellets not that it is illegal to buy them. If I’m correct then we can’t use them at the range and we’d be taking an enormous risk using them in the back garden, any neighbour or busybody has only to mention it to the local police and they will be bound to investigate because it’s a shooting related matter. I’m more hopeful that common sense will prevail in terms of air rifle ammunition - pest control with air rifle represents a negligible risk to the environment and target work too if a simple law requiring the use of dedicated backstops/ lead collection systems is applied. The lawyers and techy’s can go to work on what’s needed - your local gun shop would sell them and we would avoid a total ban on lead and the end of the sport we all love.🤷♂️
The law does not give license to the police to just go and interfere with people's enjoyment of their property in order to inspect the material composition of air rifle pellets based on the mere supposition of a neighbor. Even if it was the case they would need a warrant to do so unless the property holder cooperated (which absent a warrant they are not required to).
Basically there will be a reasonable assumption that any plinking/back yard shooting will involve lead free ammo unless substantial evidence (like a picture of a tin of lead pellets) can be provided.
Moreover as the ban is coming through on the basis of Health and Safety legislation it seems that any ban would be on the sale of pellets as banning the shooting would likely only apply to organised clubs (who are subject to HSE oversight) and not private citizens (who aren't subject to HSE oversight unless it's part of their job). To ban the shooting of lead would require an amendment to the Firearms Act.
Oh yes I’m sure you’re right but my thinking is that police would not involve themselves because of the possible use of lead pellets but more likely that it was causing a disturbance/ preventing the quiet enjoyment of the neighbours property etc plus we seem to be living in an ever more polarised society and if someone doesn’t like guns all sorts of things could be claimed and put the police in the position of having to investigate. As for amending the Firearms Act I think one is currently in progress and BASC is asking all of us to rally to the cause - tightening Firearms laws is always going to be seen as “progressive” outside of our own tiny community. I’ve shot air rifles all my life and as I get older I’ve sort of thought that the final stage of my shooting life would be to give up shotguns and my 22rf and return to where it all started 60yrs ago - plinking in my garden with a good little springer when the neighbours were not around. I suppose the answer is we will have to wait and see but staying within the law - whatever that is - is an absolutely priority and I’m still optimistic that BASC, with our support, will get what we need to continue to enjoy our sport.
There has been no discussion on lead free pellets and zinc and tin will wreck you barrels and been looking and checking try not to scaremongering. and i have over 10.000 pellets
I'd say try a bow and arrow, but they are banned here too...
You know , over the past 8 months ( and the year before ) I have wondered from FB forums too YT channels constantly and for some UNKNOWN reason I must be the only person ( though ive heard there's another chap in Derbyshire somewhere ) who actually is asking himself , WHERE IS ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT AN IMPENDING BAN COMING FROM , seriously , WHERE??? If ANYONE knows ANY OFFICIAL ( not here say or rumour or guesswork ect ext )information , SAY NOW ... or forever hold your piece .. blanket ban in my OPINION , would be impossible to enforce , HELL !!! I had me motorcycle knicked and it took 3 days for the " old bill " to turn up .. even phoned em ( ex directory btw ) to say I could see em running off with it ( only had me undies on at the time so couldn't give chase ) yeah .. 3 ****** days ... and THEY'VE gorra enforce a pellet ban ??? Yeah right , more chance of a wet turd sticking to a Teflon frying pan , get a grip lads and lasses .. store a few tins YES , but don't go buying like the bogroll fiasco during covid .. it MAY never happen ... I mean .. its been 8 months SINCE the consultation ended ..
Mark, all the info is on the UK reach websites and the UK HSE sites. It's not immediately obvious to find..I wonder why 🤔
The consultation assesment has been extended for 6 months due to the volume of data submitted. That puts an answer due in the next month or 2.
There will be derogations ofcourse and it will only be police able at club level. However if the restrictions aren't cost effective then it'll become a real problem going forward.
@@tillysgunstocks
Yeah , but there's nothing to ACTUALLY SAY that a ban is imminent is there?
what's the glove for ??
It cuts the pulse down significantly in my left hand. Pretty much a common thing on the target circuits. My left hand is smashed up too so it's more comfortable under the butt pads and hooks too.😉
Gotta love the nanny state, mission creep to an eventual air rifle ban most likely. 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Exactly what it is , make no bones about it
depleted uranium diablo's maybe
I think the shooting industry urgently needs to go lead free.
I can kind of understand looking for a replacement for shotgun cartridges that are chucking out an ounce of shot every shot, but airgun pellets? Pathetic. I would just stock up and f 'em.
They could easily make new pellets from copper
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