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It started raining mid crux on a death E8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ค. 2023
- I really wasn't sure if I wanted to come back and do Symbiosis (E8 6b) after my initial attempts twenty years ago. It is one of the most poorly protected trad climbs I've ever seen.
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Even more than all of Dave's previous videos talking about handling fear, and assessing risk, this video somehow crystallized all of those points in a way that made more sense to me than any of the rationalizing or "lecture" style videos I've watched prior. Hearing and watching the rigid breathing as he battles to keep composure, and watching his call-outs real time as many of us do as we climb demonstrated the mental discipline that we all try to cultivate when approaching our project, no matter what level we climb. The feeling is universal, whether you boulder V18, V2, climb 5.10a or 5.13s, and the exercise just as critical as anything physical, whether you're built like a tank or a string bean. Thanks for this content, seriously.
Seconded, felt like i was there with him ngl.
The best and most consistent climbing content on YT by some way. Fantastic stuff.
Really like how he documents this explaining the mental battle and the risk-taking mindset of assessing the conditions/how you feel before moving forward
That was very impressive down climbing, I find down climbing so much harder.
Absolutely loving your styles of video and narration. You bring a level of honesty and realism to the craft that's a joy to watch. Thank you.
The adrenaline breathing is getting me on headphones. Mark
What a thriller! It was really fascinating to see your approach and hear your thoughts about this climb, thank you for the great video!
Brilliant, enthralling, and expertly narrated Dave. Thanks always for sharing your inner-most thoughts and fears.
Wow, so impressive. Could hear from your breathing the intensity of this climb. Massive amounts of respect. Very brave and a great dialogue throughout the video. Fantastic job.
Loving your channel Dave, only found it in the last week or so. The style of narration and quality of production is brilliant 👍👍
What a belting video Dave! Pure gold to see this and hear your thoughts. Can't wait for the Cubby interview :)
As someone who doesn't climb trad it's great hearing all the technical language. Thank you.
Incredible video Dave!
Scary stuff! looking forward to the interview
Great video with great insights and climbing… thx for sharing
Great vid! Nice to see Cubby, my contender for the best forearms ever! Look forward to the interview.
Agreed about Cubby's forearms. I reckon I've only seen two sets of forearms stronger, and even then only just.
Amazing video, you deserve many more subscribers!
Glad Dave keeps getting into these situations so I and my junk food belly don't have to. :)
And getting out of them!
Cool video, nice to see even the pros can fumble around with an extender on lead 😂
Always enjoy your climbing videos Dave! Honest, down to earth, and always pulling hard as fuck!
The narratives are so interesting to listen to
Such an inspiration
For "only" an E8 that looks bold AF!
that shaky breathing had my heart pumping!
looks well hard for E8. Respect!
beautiful shots! coming down looks scarier/harder than climbing up!
Damn I felt that clumsiness @ 6:30 in my soul. I've had that too many times.
This is a really good video.
this looks absolutely horrific
Dave, great Content. Thank you. Can you make an episode about the use of grip types please. Similar to the great footswap and flag videos . Would fit well with the hangboard how to video in which you explain strengthtraining of the different griptypes.
Ive said it to many people, pretend to be calm and you might just start to believe it. Its a great leadership trick as well. Its actually easier for other people to believe your calm, which in turn can make it easier to pretend to be calm.
Amazing scenes....
I like crags where sport routes share space with R/X trad climbs. The history of climbing written on the walls around us and plenty of room for everyone to enjoy the sport.
Really !master of the stones 🤩🤩🤩✊
Love you commenting in such a calm manner🙂
amazing, thats all
In addition to volume, what would you recommend doing to train your mental fortitude and build a better understanding of the personal line you describe between reassuring yourself when things are scary but in hand vs. wishful thinking?
Fantastic content, thank you for doing what you do.
Some interesting perspectives on "the 20 year project". That's really worth exploring, as many climbers will have routes they're "planning to go back to". Regarding the route itself, it probably gives a false impression at 10' 09" when you're describing the inescapable position at what looks like a short reach to the draws on the sport route 😉 Personally I doubt that would have made much difference to your commitment. I'm surprised you didn't equalise some of the runners a bit more, but you probably chose not to get pumped instead 😉 I've never been a fan of skyhooks, as they seem likely to do more damage if you fall off. 👍
Does anyone know why he chose not to equilibrate the protection? Cool video!
"Comedy microwires" haha, love that
The adrenaline in his breath...oof
I didn't understood part about preserving the onsite and downclimbing without weighting the rope... I mean If you downclimbed, then next go won't be on-sight because you've already tried moves, right? Can someone please explain how this works?
My thought process when the gear is poor is to just solo and save the energy to make it less likely that gear is even necessary. Especially when it’s a headpoint. You did explain some of you thoughts but would love to hear more in depth
Can someone explain to me how climbing while reasonably sure that nothing will hold is different to free solo (except arguably harder as free soloists don't have to deal with getting pumped while placing gear)?
Where are the reinforced skyhooks from Dave?
Are there any ethical issues with climbing a large portion of the route, downclimbing to the ground and effectively starting over with preplaced gear?
Also is it still considered an onsight in that case?
No and yes. So long as you don't weight the rope.
@@climbermacleod yes good job, getting this tricky route done, having climbed for fun, do wonder about blocking out fear, when you know your gear may not even slow you down?
But even with experience, can be difficult to know the limit of what is wise, but will never forget first time that got in situation where had to except was going to fall soloing & relaxed only to find that was still holding on!
So this is an onsight that started 20 years ago and finished now. I understand the reasoning but it does sound funny :^).
Maybe a stupid question, but if you don't think any of the protection will hold, isn't it safer to just free solo it? as putting in the protection is going to make you expend energy and increase the likelihood of a fall?
Not in this case, no. For one thing, you could lower off from some of the gear that I’d be reluctant to fall onto, so it allows you to proceed without being committed and this makes the climb easier.
Traveling to Scotland and will be there for a couple weeks in august/sept. I won’t be able to climb seriously but what are some magical spots to explore/hike/scramble? Glencoe I have been to briefly and was amazed but any specific areas trails would be so helpful. Thanks!
Aonach Eagach and Curved Ridge are brilliant routes in Glencoe. Ben Nevis has tremendous scrambling like ledge route, tower ridge or carn mor dearg arete and takes in the biggest peak in the UK. Torridon is a tremendous area for scrambling and have inspiring ridge lines: Liathach, Beinn Eighe or Beinn Alligin are all fantastic mountain routes with nice scrambling. Any hiking/scrambling on the Isle of Skye is my personal favourite, a fairly unique landscape with jagged fairytale peaks rising from the sea. It's been phenomenal weather in June here, crap July so far, August & September weather is hit or miss in Scotland
Thanks so much!
Hi Dave, is there an argument for it being safer soloing it, considering the gear is so marginal and placing it clearly adds so much to the pump? I imagine for you it would be a doddle soloed, considering the other routes you've soloed (f8b+)
Soloing that would be no doddle. It would be one of the most impressive solos ever done.
Do you think that you could solo the climb now?
Incredible climbing, commentary, and scenery!
May I ask what changed in your mindset between down-climbing because "it could wait a few more days", and then next time deciding to press on with the send despite the threat of rain?
Absolutely nothing different in the mindset. It was just less humid (big difference) and I was a tiny bit fitter from the good pump on the previous session. If it had just been less humid on the first day I'd have done it then.
@@climbermacleod thanks for responding ✌🏼 interesting to hear the varying factors which influence a decision
Sick❤
Mind blowing the fact that you have to down climb in order to be "safe"
Serious terrain - fingers sweatings here. How does it compare to Indian Face?
Similar difficulty to Indian Face.
Pro tip. Don't go climb a death route when there's a chance of rain
Have you ever fallen on a skyhook? Doesn’t seem like there is anyway it wouldn’t just ping off
Will any of these hold my lifestraw?
About "psychological benefit" of bad gear (when you know it's bad), I'd really be interested in a deeper discussion on the line between fooling oneself into a false sense of safety by placing something where you know it'd be useless and having real beneftis from it. I'm interested to know the thought process here: wouldn't it be better to just NOT place the gear, if you know it's useless and build up the mental strength to go without it - in terms of safety, all things considered? Or is the small chance of it holding up your fall even a little bit worth enough objectively, as a means of risk mitigation, that you'd rather always have it? Thanks!
You should use Manus Punkys! ;-)
At what point is the gear so bad that it's more reasonable to solo it? Spend all those downclimb days on top rope dialing the moves then just solo?
Congratulations Dave. I learned more about headpointing again. It is called headpointing right? Congratulations again!
Yeah Cubby had a good go at it when anything not in the peak or Wales wasn't taken seriously by the media.
I'd be interested to know why this gets E8 given how hard it seemed for you?
Are you suggesting it should be E9?
Proper E8 is a very hard grade. But it was well below my limit. I could climb it without any specific training.
@@climbermacleod thanks for the response. There's a lot of debate (eGrader) at the moment about the dangerous end of the spectrum and how to quantify this. Made my hands sweat watching this!
@@alimcmellon7130 No more debate than there has always been. I've half edited a video on how I grade hard trad routes myself. Will post soonish.
13:18
🤣👍
You weighted the gear from the ground, but does anyone ever test gear by falling on it using a backup such as an additional top rope?
Rational as it sounds surely that goes against 'ground up' trad ethics?
Obviously the onsight would be blown, but a more practical way of getting a feel for how dodgy marginal gear actually is than waiting for a bone fide fall.
Yes tried that once just for gear testing, wasn’t an easy exercise; never been tempted to do it again.
Frankly the only _sane_ way to protect a wall like this is to _bolt_ it. If E10 trad climbers cared about practicality as much as they did about trad ethics, they probably wouldn't be E10 trad climbers for very long.
How not 2 does content like this
You sound alot like Jim Browning, the guy who catches all the indian scammer groups
Must have taken some willpower not to clip that nearby bolt 3/4 the way up!
How bad are the placements really when you can yank them like that?
A yank and a 70kg mass accelerating earthwards are two different things.
Why not just free solo the whole route? Would make things much easier and not really more dangerous it seems. No? At least for a guy who already soloed 8b+….
is this gear seems like aid
Is that how an on sight works??
Down climb come back another day.
Surely then you have beta, which means it's not an onsight. A quick Google will inform us of this.
Might be able to interpret some definitions to twist the mean to give an on sight but it's not really. Love the way no fan boys dare question the great Dave Macleod
Still very impressive don't get me wrong.
A quick google is maybe not the best way to understand climbing ethics. Climbing down on an onsight is fine. It’s not an indoor comp.
@@climbermacleod I disagree. If you pull on and then get off that's the onsight gone.
Basically any article I've read written by many far more experienced climbers than myself, and any conversation Ive had with any climber backs this up.
How would you suggest I go about understanding climbing ethics?
If you want to understand UK trad climbing ethics, the best way is to go trad climbing in the UK.
@@climbermacleod I do and like I said all the climbers I talk to say the same thing regarding onsights. I think hard trad (onsights) are top level of climbing, and produce the more rounded climbers and best experiences.
I'm not knocking hard trad or you, I respect your achievements but doesn't mean I agree (I have followed plenty of your advice previously).
But it's just not an onsight if you have beta. You pull on climb and get off thats beta. To call it an onsight is to just stretch the definition. You can't down climb get off have another go and call it a flash.
The terms are basically for you first go.
I get it a nobody speaking out must be irritating I don't mean it to be but I just think it needs to be said.
@@pintospirits You're not a nobody and not irritating. It's perfectly fine to disagree. You can take onsight to mean whatever you want, but to me it just means climbing from the ground with no falls. Reversing back to the ground is perfectly fine.
maybe check the weather forecast before you set out?
Thanks man.
@@climbermacleod😂 never thought of that before...
Good luck getting anything done in Scotland based on the forecast😂
Horrible to see natural crags in Scotland being bolted, permanently disfiguring them for the vanity of 'sports' climbers. Stay in the gym. If it can't be climbed without bolts, it can't be climbed. Leave it alone.
It’s nothing to do with vanity. The climbers featured in this video doing the hardest and boldest routes in Glen Coe are also the ones who bolted some of the sport crags there.
@@climbermacleod Ah, so they owned the land and were entitled to construct things on it? If not, of what, other than vanity, did their entitlement consist?
Dave why don't you go to YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, CALIFORNIA and
climbs El Capitan without a rope or safety equipment. Others have successfully achieved this.
Would love to hear your answer to this Dave - I'm a casual, so El Capitan is the main climb I know of. Is it too hard or too easy in comparison to the Highlands?
COngrats man, and thanks for showing everything you do, you helped me learn alot when i climbed alot a couple years back.
Man I started climbing again this year, was a outdoor climber but not been around rocks for a couple years. found a gym near me the other day, and climbed. I lost another 40lbs or so since the years when I climbed. I was able to climb almost all the routes indoor there, and I think the hardest grade I would have given was a v4-6+ but I climbed in dakotas, and been told we graded harder than most. But losing that weight is nuts! But I had my hand rebuilt a couple times the past year, so my left pinky, and forearm where so pumped. But I climbed for a good two hours or so.