Beginner climber tries hangboarding twice a day.... with results
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
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For the last 30 Days I Trained with a “no hang” fingerboard protocol. This was first introduced to me in a video by @EmilAbrahamsson . The idea is that by training twice daily, without ever fully hanging on the board, you can see impressive gains in finger strength. I set how to see if this would work for a beginner who's never used a hangboard before.
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Interesting.. 👀
thanks for watching, Emil. Huge fan! Thanks for the inspiration.
can i get a blessing father, for my fingers are still weak af lol
Am I mistaken but does Emil’s protocol go 10 second hang 50 second rest?
@@robertpepper5256 i also think it was 40% of your weight, and not 70 to 80 percent 🤔
@@Winnduu40% perceived effort
Within a year or two I fully expect him to start these videos with something like: Hellø my name is Mike Midtbøyd!
Why would he do that considering he is a lot weaker than magnus?
@@AdamThygerson that one looks to be over your head, seek shallower waters
@@brekkoh😂😂😂 dragged him
@AdamThygerson not for long 😂
My man here had a whole month to get actual weights for the final test, but he just got more cat litter 🤣.
Cat litter cheap😁! Weights expensive 😫
Lol
@@Weiszdid not expect you here lol
If you want to be accurate you can stand on a bathroom scale when hanging. When the scale shows 20% of your body weight you are at 80%. It's probably useful for getting the initial sense of how much is 80%.
It's a hack I came up with when I wanted to track my progress on edges that were too small for me to be able to do my whole body weight :)
I actually tried this after we finished shooting and I was pretty accurate with 80%!
@@MikeBoydClimbs Also in another video where Emil did this, he said you should do it with about 40% of your maxhang weight. Thats why Emil did it with 80% of his bodyweight, cause his Maxhangs are already so strong.
Sports scientist here just weighing in. This is very similar to a program by Dan John called easy strength. It's common for endurance athletes, but is a strength routine whereas this is focused on tendons primarily. The only thing I would say is that if you've never handboarded before, doing anything on a hangboard will get you to see results. That goes for any type of training. Everything works in your first year and anything works for 6 weeks
Amen.
Actually I would use Emils protocol with 60% of your max weigth (as I think he advises in the 2nd video about this protocol) not for the strength itself but for regeneration purposes. I was doing the protocol 1 time a day for some time, combined with regular fingerboarding and it worked like a charm (also the pain in joints and pulleys that was occuring after strong climbing sessions dissapeared after 2 weeks of this method). The last thing I want to leave you with is: use Emils follow through video - you dont need to click on your phone every 2 sets like on crimped, and after you are done Emil says he loves you. After some time your wife gets jelous and says it few seconds before the Emil. This way your fingers AND you get a super portion of love every morning
Can you explain more about using the 60% method alongside regular finger boarding? Same day? Different days? Etc
@@MikeBoydClimbs I also did that approach, what I did is do emils protocol in the morning and then in the afternoon or evening, whenever I ended up having time, I would do my regular hangboard training, sometimes followed that with some light climbing which mainly was hanging out with friends and during that session making sure not to put extra stress on the fingers but instead do more slab
@@MikeBoydClimbs the protocol every morning and finger boarding 2 times a week, I only tried to keep the 6h between the protocol and hangboard :)
@MikeBoydClimbs I think referring to the fact emil as a pro climber using 80% of his bodyweight is much lower intensity than a beginner using 80% bodyweight. Better to think of a % of your max hang. That might mean a beginner using a much lower % bodyweight
@@MikeBoydClimbs This 2x/day protocol is not designed for strength training. It's mainly for improving the strength of the ligaments (pulleys) and tendons in your fingers. Per Baar's paper, you will see the same gains in ligament+tendon strength no matter what load you use, as long as you do it at the same frequency. 5 minutes of light fingerboarding 3 times per day 6+ hours apart is ideal for this.
Finger strength develops just like any other muscle strength - better with a rest day and better with more fatiguing exercises.
This program is literally body building, stimulating hypertrophy and minimizing injury risk
So I guess this is the new Main channel…..I’m all for it,
Never seen your main channel videos but loving your climbing videos
Welcome aboard!
@@MikeBoydClimbs thanks brother, keen for more Arthur inclusions
Still thoroughly enjoying watching your climbing journey. I have been bouldering a little bit over a year and a half and my life has changed considerably for the better.
that's awesome to hear. It has changed my life too. Thanks for watching!
Ah can't wait for another great video much love from the Netherlands
More to come!
3:57 you're welcome! not sure what for...
Indeed the way he said *Ten Kilos* sounded a little like "Thank Youzz" :')
The cat litter bags 🤣🤣
🤣 cheers, Dave
I´ve actually done this as a "new climber". Though I didn´t do any hang boarding for my first year, I started to implement this into my every day climbing session. It might not been the strictest of routines nor were the hang times always on point, but I´m fairly sure it gave me some great advantages and gains. Recently passing the 3 year mark in my climbing "carreer", my max lift from a 15mm edge is 75kg and 10kg + on my one hand hang from 20mm. It might´ve been Emils finger routine or just the fact that I´m Swedish, we´ll never know, but I highly recommend anyone to try this.
Most likely genetics. I've been climbing for 15 years and training for 5 and I'm nowhere near a one arm 20mm hang. That seems so absurd to me but people don't all the time. I think genetics play a bigger role in finger strength than is generally discussed.
In Dave McLeods video about hangboarding he explained that for beginners the science seems to suggest that low load training with increased time (to fatigue actually) has the same effect as high load training but with less risk of injury. So it seems to make sense that it is working for you. Keep in mind that with traditional training you still need to stark slow and increase load over time. If you do that the traditional training should be just as safe as this method given enough time for tendons and ligaments to recover.
I've been doing the same exersize as well for some time now (though I have done it on the sharp edge of the the underside of a wooden stair plank because I am unable to install a hangboard in my current apartment) and I do definitely feel the difference with smaller holds and crimps. After you mentioned not having these little pains in your fingers anymore I realised that I experience the same lack of pain.
Thanks for the video!
I also saw good results with approaching hang board for the first time with this routine 👌
Note that 80% of body weight for Emil is more like 40% of bodyweight for mere human climbers. Also, use a bathroom scale to get an accurate idea of how much weight you are hanging.
Edit: Also, your fingers are really strong! I am Moonboarding 7B (V8) but can only hang on 20mm with +15kg
I think you are fingers are just weak for V8 tbh, and lattices data backs this up. For reference on a 20mm edge I can hang +45kg give or take 10kg depending on where in the year/training period I am and I climb about V8/9 and can barely do a V6 (benchmark) on the moon board. (Note other boards vary, I can do V10 on the kilter but it's soft AF)
Great insight! I wanted to try it as well, so it's cool I have someone reliable give realistic advice - thanks!
A new channel dedicated to climbing, that's cool! I want a video about how to overcome the V4 (V5 if your gym grades easy) plateau
It's good to see the passion you have for climbing Mike and love the motivation and effort you're putting into these videos.
I am a bit sad that the "learn something new" series is dwindling but maybe it was left on a high before it got overdone.
Either way, I'm glad to see you're doing well and enjoying this new adventure. Keep it up man!
Great video Mike! I think a way to controllably load 80% bw would be to stand on a scale and then pull until only 20% registers on the scale. Alternatively you can use a load cell / tindeq block and track the force that way
Also i think the only conclusive way to test the difference would be to get several people train one arm (randomly dominant or non dominant) with sub max and the other arm with standard one arm hangboarding protocols
Thanks, I needed a video similar to this because I'm planning on starting to hang board soon, but I had no idea what to do. This is my only source of information on how to hangboard now, but I'll probably watch at least a few more before I start. I'm glad to know I can hang board without needing weights that you can attach to yourself because I don't have anything like that.
Was honestly expecting Mike to say "I set out to try hangboarding twice a day, every. single. day... This is day one, hour zero..."
I was shocked he didn’t.
Super interesting, great results to be honest!
Mike, I’ve literally just started this for the past month during a back issue to keep my finger strong and I’ve definitely seen a difference in finger health and strength in general> this video is perfect timing😂
I freaking love this channel
Dude, Mike its been 7.5 years since the 'Learn to muscle up in 7 days' video. That is when i started watching your channel. So fun to see you climb now
after a month of the Emil protocol I noticed crimps are super easy in routes and my fingers feel a lot healthier, usually during climbing days I do it as a warmup because it really strengthens the fingers I noticed
great to hear you go so much from it!
As a climber who has watched your videos for years, I love that climbing is the one thing you have gotten so addicted too. Especially when you have tried hundreds of different hobbies. As for hangboarding, I climb at about the same grade as you. I work offshore so I can't climb consistently, so I started using a hangboard at work. It worked wonders. Im coming home stronger than I was before. Keep up the good content 👌
Tried Emil's program for 1 month and I got very good results. From ~0s hang on 19mm crimp (I'm a beginner climber), went to 11+s hang time on same edge. What I observed, after this month, when I stopped hanging, the hang time lowered to 4-5s. To maintain this time up, I'm doing from time to time different hang trainings (most often I do Emil's one, because it takes only 10 mins). In conclusion, I could say that this training boosted me a big, seeing improvements in climbing grades (gym and rock).
I thought Emil's protocol was a light fingerboard session with 40% max weight, which for him was 80% bodyweight. You used around 65% max weight, which makes it less sustainable injury-wise, I think. Still, nice video and nice gains!
Great job mike! I had a crazy idea: what if you make a video combacking to the unicycle? That tutorial really helped me.
A note on terminology: "No hangs" more commonly refers to pulling weight up from the floor with an edge, or pinch block. Also known as "block pulls" or "farmer crimps".
The "no hangs" depicted in the video are more commonly called "recruitment pulls".
This isn't a correction; just meant to help folks to watching do further research or find other programs that suit them. Emil's video on the protocol is the only place I've heard "recruitment pulls" referred to as "no hangs".
Thanks for the info 💪
Emil call them no hangs though.
great job mike! constant improvements!
I also have a Frictitios hang board and it honestly works great! Nice video!
Remember to ise chalk when hangboarding in order to not slip when doing heavy hangs or small edges - makes a huge difference
Noticed this too, I can do way smaller hangboard crimps if I use chalk. I prefer liquid chalk on my hangboard though to keep things a little bit cleaner
Thanks Mike, that was somewhat informative, helps a lot!
That "Robustness" you feel in your fingers is neurological adaptation. Your nerves have learned it's safe to pull harder.
Love your spin off climbing channel!
Awesome video Mike! I thought it was interesting how you didn't notice the impact too much on the wall either :)
I'm going to give this a shot. This seems like the equivalent of run slow to run fast. Basically injury prevention techniques but also build strength. Injured myself climbing about 10 years ago and stopped due to finger pains whenever I get on a route. This might slowly fix that problem. Looking forward to the experiment.
I miss climbing so much!
Excellent, I was looking at these boards. I do bar hangs everyday on my pull up bar which is a little too thick for finger hangs.
Thanks!
Imo the best thing is to use this method on top of regular hangboarding twice or once a week.
I also feel the same in the ring finger with the hangboard routine.
Very pleased too see this video... did a pulley injury 4 weeks ago and just about ready to start climbing again and was wondering if hang boarding might be a good rehab tool.
good luck with the rehab. Thanks for watching!
Thx for another great vid (:
Glad you like them!
Very interesting results, which do make sense, especially in the context of Hooper's Beta's hypothesis on why the protocol works. As an intermediate climber I would suggest to not advance to weighted max hangs right away but try a cycle of repeater hangs (e.g. 7/3) first to get used to high intensity fingerboarding without the additional stress of as much weight.
Myself and many other people have found tremendous gains from doing a cycle (3-4 weeks of training followed by a deload week) of repeaters, then doing a cycle of max hangs and repeating this in a loop. And I feel like no-hang -> repeaters -> max hangs is a pretty natural way to push your training and get used to the more intense stimuli
I've just been reading New Scientist and they've had some strength and fitness articles. The interesting aspects were that very regular training increases blood volume and hence some strength and definitely endurance (plus the lubrication and muscle/tendon health of increased transport around your body). Also, they say the best way to increase strength in the short term is HIIT sessions. And Emil's method is also a HIIT session (sort of). Finally, there's definitely neurological changes regarding activation - I did a session with Dave Macleod and the neural aspects are SOO important. Even down to taking your shirt off when training for max power (max power = max training effect). I was told off (sort of) for looking 'calm' when doing my hangboarding 🙂
I definitely feel like there is increased blood flow!
Excellent video! I'd say this 'nohang routine' is so effective because it trains the tendons directly which seem to benefit from super high-volume, low-intensity work.
Perhaps Emil saw such great results using this method as his tendons were lagging behind his muscles, limiting the amount of force that they could safely pull with. I had a similar issue in my knees wherein my leg muscles were overdeveloped compared to my knees causing pain and instability.
I also used a nohang-esque knee strengthening routine and found astonising strength gains - overall my squats felt more stable and I wasn't afraid to squat heavy anymore (similar to your crimpy move-bailing out of fear of an injury).
This nohang training method could be a very useful tool to accelerate a beginner climber's progress as I suspect the advice not to hangboard before your 3rd year of climbing is to allow your tendons and joints to develop enough to handle the strenght you would gain from a conventional hangboarding program.
yo i used the no hang protocol as an introduction to hangboarding tooo and had the same expericence as you with feeling more solid in the fingers and on harder moves. i will continue to do it once a day to hopefully stay injury free
I just got the Frictitious doorway mount about a month ago! It’s awesome, wish I could have got the discount lol. Great video and will give this a try
did you manage to have it shipped to europe? :)
Thanks for the support!
@@carlopandini8784 no, sorry. It was in the US
Stoked to watch in a bit! I started a two time a day hang protocal two weeks ago so im super excited to see how it went for you. Maybe you are doing the same one (Emil's famous fingerboard recipe haha)
Same routine with the same hangboard as well! The absolute perfect video haha
Ive been climbing for about 7 months now. 4 weeks into climbing from never climbing before i pulled my a2 ring and middle fingers in both hands. Sucked bad. I went to a climbing specific therapist and he has had me hangboarding every single day. These are body weight and full hangs. I have seen this injury leave super fast and im now way stronger then i was before. I was able to climb at the gym in about 2 weeks and am doing great now. I am still hangboarding the same every single day and am about to start adding weight though i dont know if ill be doing that every day.
I laughed so hard when you put on the 3rd catsan
I am currently building my own hang board and think that this is a program worth trying
damn first minute and I've already gotta try this out lol
Okay I will try this too! Average climber here 6B-6C and I suck at crimpers
I just checked earlier today to see if I missed any new uploads, haha-crazy timing. That much improvement in a month is crazy, I'd be curious to know the difference between the improvement with 30 days "traditional" hangboarding versus this. Great stuff, always enjoy the videos.
I actually might do a proper 30 days thing! Thanks for watching
Beginner? I watched some of your adventures and think you are selling yourself a bit short now ^^ cool video thx
I should have really said "beginner finger boarder". Thanks for watching!
Just a bit of advice, if you’re climbing overhung routes, like how it looked in that Kalymnos clip, downturned, aggressive shoes will really help you keep weight on your feet! You can pull with them much more easily
I want one of those hang boards in my house! So convenient 😂
7:12 btw, there is an easy way to measure the 70% body weight: If you just stand on a scale when "hanging" and pull until it only shows 30% of your weight, then 70% are applied to the fingers!
I love this content
You're the first person I've seen to have mentioned fingertip tingling and numbness. I also get this; a little tingling in the tips after a long-ish bit of climbing, which, after a while, fades away, leaving seemingly permanently slightly less sensitive fingertips.
I've asked a few other climbers and they all claim to not have this issue.
It's good to know it's not just me but I wonder if it's rare or if it's much more common but nobody (that I can see) thinks that it's worth mentioning.
I'm relieved to hear other people have this. I'm not sure what causes it. Someone mentioned perhaps it's actually a shoulder injury.
The beginner effect will obviously give results for a beginner
If you add bathroom scale to you setup you can get your 70-80% bodyweight with a degree of accuracy. Simply stand on the scales to begin and lift yourself up, once your measured weight has dropped by about 3/4 you are at the target. Having done this a few times I can now gauge if by feel much more accurately.
(edit: seems I am not the first one to come up with this, not surprising really)
Also don't forget to train all the grip types.
Hangboard covers crimps, pockets and 3 finger drags. Sometimes even slopers.
But please train those big pinches antagonist muscle and slopers. Don't forget it's not just fingers but everything else too.
Your wrists, scapulars etc...
I've once got numb fingertip after sharp-edged 1-2 finger pocket on a lead climb. It was the crux on a slab/vertical, so naturally I held for my life. Didn't feel anything special (except a normal sharp-edge sensation) while holding the pocket, but after 30 mins noticed numbness in the tip only. I guess sharp edge damaged some nerve tissue or something inside. It lasted for week or so, then went back to normal. The pocket was for one phalange, so probably it can be the same kind of thing a hangboard edge can do.
Maybe it's the same thing I did. I'm glad you recovered after a while!
Hey Mike I started climbing 9 months ago. I used to watch you like 5 years ago, and just found out you started climbing as well!! What are the chances. Great video, and I'll definitly give hang boarding a try!!
While doing some partial body weight hangs for recovery recently, I found that you could stand on a scale to get a good judge of how much weight you're hanging, and then stop once you have a good feel for it. I mostly just estimate it anyway, but it can be interesting if you've got a scale lying around anyway.
Love the video! I was hoping you'd update how your finger numbness progressed later on. I tried this routine once a day for ～6 months and eventually stopped as I felt similar numbness that wouldn't go away...
Extensor training is also very important (your finger opening strength). I had a stubborn pulley injury which went away after I started doing these before climbing.
This training sounds similar to those of powerlifters and body builders. Rather than doing our PR weights until we physical can't move, we rather do moderate (but still challenging) weights for more sets. Reason being, the time to recover increases exponentially with the amount of effort; and the strength gained levels off the closer you get to complete exhaustion. So we keep it moderate to balance gains and recovery time.
I imagine a better way to do this would be to do as much volume as you need for your forearms to get tired, but not so tired that you don't recover in time for the next session.
Try campus boarding next! I find that once I have build strength on the hangboard, the campus board helps me turn it into contact strength that I can use on the wall. Just take it easy. I wouldn't campus every day or even every climbing session as a beginner.
In interviews with Janja Garnbret and Japan team athletes like Tomoa and Meichi Narasaki, they say they don't do any hangboarding at all. They just train their fingers from climbing.
That makes sense for those guys because they climb for multiple hours every single day, so they’re constantly working their fingers. For us regular folks that just isn’t feasible in my opinion
Good results. Great vid. ...what did you do *before* climbing that would have helped your finger strength? Your starting test of +10kg (1/7th body weight) and finishing result (+2/7th) are imho really impressive--way above where I think most beginners are.
What you said about being able to pull harder also falls in line with the theories regarding this I saw in another video (might have been Emil's, it's been a while since I've seen it). This routine moreso seems to be about recruiting your tendons to be able to apply the strength you have without getting hurt rather than directly increasing your strength. This would also be why Emil saw such drastic increases, as he is already an insanely strong guy. For him being able to apply 10-20% more of that would likely be a bigger margin than for a beginner. Nevertheless, I really enjoy your climbing videos and hope you have a great time on the wall ^^
I think it's Hooper's Beta's video you are referring to. I agree with these points! Thanks for watching!
Hey Mike, be careful hanging heavy things off your gear loops! Great video though, keep up the climbing content.
This seems like it would strengthen your tendons and ligaments better than your muscles, which explains why your fingers feel more robust
Just find out about this other channel. :) Will try hangboarding then..
I did alot Emil's hangboarding also later to recover from injury.
I'd say that this whole process just makes your tendons work better. Because unlike muscles which are happy to just have passive rest, tendons recover very well from stimulus (exercise). They have much better response from that.
Also as far as I am aware you should hang for 60-70% of your effort not bodyweight right? Just saying that if someone is a beginner and tries immediatelly 80% of bodyweight they can easily injure themselves... these numbers are always relative to where you are at with power.
Also a tip for injuries - warmup. Can't stress enough how much it gets important the further you progress to have warmed up. My power peaks at 1/3-2/3 part of the session. Not at the beginning. It used to be first try best try.
Tweaky fingers at least from my experience are best healed by loading them but far less than you would usually do and slowly progressing up again. Not doing anything is good if you injure yourself but if you feel tweaky than rehabilitation is what makes it recover. Not doing anything often makes it stay on the same place
7:19 "is impossible to gauge" use a scale to reach a target weight. scales can be as thin as 3 cm so standing on one during your exercise should be no problem.
I've injured my right middle finger joint using such "no hang" protocol last year. I can climb but pain in the joint is still here and does not go away. I think it's due to overuse injury with open hand grip. Be careful with that.
I started hangboarding about 3 months after i first started climbing. Then in about 5 months later, i can hang with weighted 40kg (160%body weight) on 25mm edge... so no, no need to wait years to start training on hangboards (tho i climb only ones a week so I do get long time to recover, so rarely any injury)
You said before you plan to start a diet to lose weight and improve your climbing, is it going ok ? Could you do a video about it and this process ? I wonder if it really helps that much, I'm curious
So far it hasn't gone well.... I need to get my diet sorted.
Mike's going to redpoint 8a in 18 months or less. mark my word
You can hang while standing on a scale to have a better measurement of how much percentage of weight is on your fingers.
just injured my right ring finger A4 pulley. I feel fingerboarding to maintain my strong fingers through a lazy summer of easy crack climbing would have helped prevent this injury.
ive been climbing for abt 5 months, if i hadnt been fingerboarding since week 3 i'd be a v3~ instead of a v5 climber right now
Would be interesting to see if any other grip types were affected, like 3 finger drag, would also be interesting to see an update either if you kept this up or if you didn't
I might try to benchmark those also.
yeah, grease the groove ...
I've had the exact kind of numbness you describe in my fingertips before (same fingers, actually). It happened twice and both time from pulling very hard on a tiny crimp. It took longer than I thought to go away but I didn't see anything bad come from it, longterm or shortterm.
Thanks for the video! I wonder what kind of beginner are you, I am not sure that I can do 7sec on 20mm edge with my body weight. I am only working on max hangs on 40mm edge and 5 sets of 5 sec on 5 off for warm ups
Looking great! Do you ever get the feeling that the outermost digit of your finger is going to bend backwards on the hang board? That is the thing that stops me the most with this kind of training
I've been trying this kind of method for some 6 months as a beginner, and I don't know if I've gotten stronger, but my fingers have become more resilient: they don't get sore in the beginning of a climbing session as they used to and they are no longer the deciding factor for me to end the sessions - it's usually time or the skin.
great to hear this has worked for you
I never tried in a consistent way because it is very boring to hang .. and I do not have a group to do it together and enjoy more.. but I think it is very effective.. I sow you climbing and I think you will gain a lot in your climbing performance.
Essentially.. you just need a counter weight to measure out the required 20-30% of assistance to end up with 70-80% of bodyweight hanging without need to focus on altering pressure through your feet.
Perhaps a set of resistance bands or set up the finger board on an assisted pullup machine.
I think the resistance bands would be a good idea. I tried to set up a pulley but couldn't figure out a proper way. Thanks for watching!
If you put a scale underneath you while hanging, you should be able to adjust how much weight you put on your fingers until the scale reads 20% of your body weight to achieve the 80% body weight on the fingers.
The title of this video should be: man gains massive finger strength, but severely undersells it. I've been a coach for over a decade, and these results are amazing. No, you likely would not have achieved such results as a beginner with a typical hangboard routine as you'd likely be injured during the loading phase, well before peak. You're seriously doing this hangboard routine a massive disservice by your interpretation of the results. Especially since I'm sure a big portion of your audience is composed of beginner climbers.
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