You're a better man than I, Jason. I don't. I mean I do in the sense that he's created in God's image, but he's like human sabotage. I can't imagine meaningfully collaborating with him in service of Jesus without everything turning into a gaslighting nightmare.
We should definitely love James white and pray for him. But his behaviour towards you and others HAS to be called out. It is unacceptable the way he treats other Christians.
I don't see it that way, he is a man of God, and if asking more emphatic questions is offensive, then we should abandon the debates. We have to stop having a "generation with too much freshness".
@RESISTENCIAPOLOGETICA Literally nobody cares about "emphatic question's". We're not even talking about the debates. We are talking about his behavior. His attitude towards people.
@@daltonbrasier5491 The problem is this, I don't see the disrespect you observed. What matters is the argument and not the behavior itself, although one should not be arrogant with anyone. To give an example, many people in our time do not vote for Bolsonaro in Brazil or for Trump in the US, because they think they are very rude in their speech. This is nonsense, just look at how both of them betrayed their countries, how they left the economy of these nations? What matters is this, in the same way, it does not matter how James White expresses himself, but his arguments, if they are biblical, but the person does not want to accept them, it is the person's right.
@RESISTENCIAPOLOGETICA again this isn't about the debate. This is about his behaviour as a christian. The Bible is very clear how we are supposed to act and that he needs to repent of his behaviour. He is sinning against his brothers. His arguments in a debate are irrelevant.
@@daltonbrasier5491 And I say again that you are wrong, because what was the "sin" he committed in the debate? I am not his lawyer, my dear! I am just saying that the argument in the debate is worth more than how I say it. Explain to me what you did to make him so "revolted"??? That's it!
@@aletheia8054 How does one 'know' they are saved if they don't have a say in it? I know I'm saved because God's Holy Spirit lives in me and affirms it. I don't need anyone or anything to tell me I'm saved. God's word shows me how to know, 1 John 2:24
Most Calvinists were believers before they became convinced of TULIP. IMO, affirming TULIP does not preclude a believer from being saved regardless of how confused they may become about "how" it happened. The problem is going forward because of how the doctrine casts a shadow of doubt over having confidence that God truly loves any one specific person, even the man in the mirror.
@@tedfordhyde tks for your reply. PTL you made it out of the fog with your faith in tact. Many former Calvinists don't. And, sadly, those who remain believe apostasy is as much God's decree as was the faith they now deny. There's evil behind that curtain.
Thanks for this. I made a comment about loving Jeff Durbin and James White in one of their videos and some of their followers said that I was inconsistent in loving Calvinists as a non-Calvinist. It’s upsetting to me that we can’t love each other as brothers in our disagreement, and yet we have been instructed to love even our enemies.
As a Calvinist with many non Calvinist friends and family, let me assure you that not all of us who behave that way. I think it might be a people problem, not a Calvinist problem 😅
Jesus died for the Pharisee's, He loved them, they were his children that He created. He still called them vipers and white washed tombs, kinda like swearing at them in their day. No matter how much clutching of pearl's or spuing HOW DARE THEY's, it will NEVER justify them besmirching God's character.
@@atyt11 John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. John 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me
@@sevencrickets9258 nothing here I don’t agree with👊🏼👊🏼 If you’re a Calvinist, you think the sheep are the elect if you’re a non-Calvinist, you think the sheep are those who humble themselves, and believe ✌🏼
I continue to notice your humility and true desire to learn and grow in your ability to speak truth effectively. I can’t wait for your series on Romans!
I believe most Calvinists are saved but I don’t see how there can be unity with them. They change and add to God’s Word and follow a man-made system that alters the gospel.
On one hand you have Paul’s statement, “if anyone comes preaching another gospel…”, and on the other the disciples struggled to free themselves from false teaching of their day and arguing with Jesus about it, and they needed a kick in the pants to take the message to the gentiles even though He told them it was going to happen many times. In the end, the ones that take the position of elder/teacher and refuse to be chastised by the word, are not spoken well of in scripture.
Many claim the name of Jesus but follow the teachings of man-made systems, of which there are many, and which are contrary to scripture. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB95): 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB95): The Narrow and Wide Gates 13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
As a christian, can I love someone and completely disrespect his views on just about everything he teaches and beleives? I hope so, cause that's where I land with this person.
@@joelc-gc1hq the God he defends throws people into hell just because it's a, wait, mystery! Christ sacrifice on the cross is limited to a 'few elect' as though He could only make a way for the 'special' elect Calvinists. John's gospel states clearly that He is creator of all things. But reformers treat it as though His Deity was just not 'divine' enough to make a way for all men to be saved!! Reformers decide to limit His sacrifice on the Cross to a few??? Give me a break. He preaches determinism which is identical to Islam....Allah wills!! He's not defending our Lord Jesus, he's agreement with their views. Perhaps if you bothered reading you bible without referring every single thought to the writings of reformers and instead lean on the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth, John 16:13, 1John 2:27. If you lean on men to show you the truth, I feel sorry for you.
@@joelc-gc1hq thanks for that. But then again, every response I get from reformers like you are insults. Go ahead and preach Calvinism and I'll just make sure I tell everyone I meet that Jesus loves them and made a way for them to be saved John 3:16-17. Unlike Calvinists who can't even tell people God loves them because they're not sure He does or they may not be one of the 'elect'. God Almighty!!, how can you preach that?? If you wanna defend that, go ahead. We will all stand before God one day and I'm pretty sure He won't ask me, "So child, I hope you didn't tell everyone that I love them? Because, I don't love everyone, just the elect." Tell me that's not White's teachings?
Brother, his point was that you said you disagree with almost everything he teaches. That would mean you are against teaching Jesus is God Almighty, you are against teaching God is triune, you are against teaching that works do not save, you are against teaching that Jesus died to save sinners, etc. It is uncharitable to view every doctrine someone believes and defends as negative because you disagree with them on one, albeit an important one. I think that was his point. And although I don’t wish shame on anyone, can you see that your comment was overstated?
Loving the Calvinist not the Calvinism is like love the Vegan not the veganism I don't want to be around when they talk about what they really care about
I think I’m missing your point. It sounds like you’re saying you wouldn’t want to be around a vegan when they talk about veganism. If that’s the case, I would ask why?
@@levifox2818 it can be other things other than veganism I picked veganism because it can basically become a religion to them. It's been my experience that no matter what the conversation is about eventually it will come back to veganism. Calvinists are the same way no matter what you're talking about eventually it will come back to Calvinism because that's truly what they care about.
@@plumber1874 I don’t think that’s fair at all. One of my close friends is a vegan, and conversations don’t always (or usually) go there. I don’t think any of my non-Calvinist friends would say my conversations always go to Calvinism. I don’t even know if many of them know I’m Calvinist. But I think the problem with your statement, in my opinion, is you make it sound like that makes “loving the Calvinist” impossible. I can bear with Provisionist who always want to make that the topic. Can’t the love go the other way around?
Online interaction can be like driving in traffic - it’s easy to be outraged and aggressive with people we don’t actually have to confront directly 😂 Thanks for your loving demeanor in spite of those temptations
I appreciate your beautiful humble approach to all this. Something that grieves my husband and I is all the division caused by Calvinism vs Arminianism vs provisionism. I see false converts in each camp. I see great fruit as well in camp. We have learned so much from some of our Calvinist brothers though we wouldn’t agree on everything. I also have learned from other sides. When I see bashing and putting downs, insults ect it’s not the Spirit of Christ. Your channel is exactly what we all need to have a safe place to learn and grow together. ❤😊
Amen! I have a lot of respect for Dr. White and Apologia despite being a Provisionist, and seeing the feud between him and Flowers has been disheartening. Thank you for leading by example!
Hi Jason happy Easter and I pray you are resting in the love and grace of Jesus and His good news today. My mother and I have been studying through the gospel of John for some months now going chapter by chapter every weekend and very wonderfully we finished the last chapter, chapter 21 yesterday. So today we read through the entirety of the book of John, perfect timing for Easter🙏🏻! and I really believe the Lord ministered to me about quite a few things but something I thought I could share with you. You’ve probably seen this before but just thought it was a wonderful reminder We see how Jesus acted towards the prideful Pharisees. HOWEVER, interestingly, notice how Jesus would respond and act with nicodemus (also part of the Pharisees). Much different. Because nicodemus humbled himself. We know Jesus resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. I find the interactions with nicodemus so incredibly beautiful if you follow his story and the context of all that. So many things to say about that, including that nicodemus even after the crucifixion came early in the quietness of the morning with oils and fragrances to wrap Jesus’s body in stripes of cloth with Joseph to give Jesus a proper burial. Jesus DID tell nicodemus that he needed to be born again because he was not believing His witness but Jesus was more heavy on grace with nicodemus then the more prideful more hardened other Pharisees where Jesus was much more heavy on the truth with them exposing the truth of their condition, who they have become, and warning of the ramifications of a refusal to repent. It is worthy to note that nicodemus really stood out from the Pharisees and being willing to listen to the Spirit, was not that common when you are part of a culture with spiritual condition like that of the Pharisees. This is all very eye opening especially if you follow everything with the dynamics that went on during Jesus’ earthly ministry. I know I give some pushback but I hope I can write in ways that is encouraging and not defeating. I can be a little bold and spicy sometimes (don’t always think that’s a bad thing) but I want to be consciously aware of how that can come across online God bless you richly Jason. The Prince of peace and hope of the world is risen indeed! Hallelujah 🙏🏻🌅
I think this is a very Godly and respectful video towards another Brother in Christ - whether you agree in whole or in part with his theology. Eternal God has called us not to wrath and war, but to peace with our fellow Brethren.
Our love for Calvinists is a for sure way to demonstrate the deficiencies in their systematic. Where God in Calvinism joins in with the Priests and Levites in passing by the half-dead man, God in provisionism shows Himself to be maximally glorious by joining in with the good Samaritan to render aid to those that would be His enemies, teaching us to love our enemies as He did. As for hating the Calvinism, both it and the fruit of it, in how James White, though you respect him, I struggle in finding much to respect, based on his conduct and character in how he has slandered and misrepresented Leighton Flowers, to the end that it appears as hate from him.
Non-Reformed guys and gals don’t like Dr White, but if you get to know him a bit he’s a genuine man who truly walks in his faith. I appreciate so much that he actually carries himself like a man of God. With all we see today going in within the church, leaders who are not living out their faith that to me is so important. Dr White has never been in it for the money, or anything other than a genuine love of the Lord. He maybe a bit snarky sometimes, but you have to understand all that he has had to put up with over the years being the apologist that he is. No matter what you think of him, he’s a Godly, extremely intelligent, well read, Man of God.
I really appreciate your goal to bring unity and peace over the issue of Calvinism. I’m a Calvinist and I think it’s an important issue, but far more destructive than erring on this very deep theological point is the divisiveness both sides stir up-often intentionally. This issue (on both sides) is tracing very deep into philosophy and compatibilism vs. incompatibilism and isn’t basic level theology at all. If we don’t have room to err when we look in wonder on the infinite God, I don’t think anyone can stand. I can’t tell you how much the divisiveness grieves my heart and how much your attempt at an irenic approach blesses me, but I do pray you are able to carry through.
The thought of you in hell grieves my heart. What you call "compatibilism", I see as a human contrived coping mechanism, to excuse you for accusing God of wanting things like little girls being raped for the umpteenth time today. That's a very serious accusation it seems to me. One wonders why you feel the need to make it. Why do you do that?
@@johnknight3529 I really don’t mean this to come across as frustrated, but this gimmick only shows a lack of subject understanding. If you don’t understand what I mean, I’d be happy to explain
@@levifox2818 - Gimmick? Lack of subject understanding? I suspect you're not really a heart knower. You can explain all you want, you don't need permission from me . . but please first respond to my question.
@@johnknight3529 My friend; I never insinuated anything about your heart. The question is the problem. This is one of the various iterations of “I guess I was predestined to reject Calvinism.” In short, the issue is Calvinists hold a person can be responsible for an evil act while God is still doing good in and through it. So I can grieve over all of the legitimate evil people are doing to one another through inflammatory comments while still trusting God for the good he is doing in what he willed to happen. If you want a longer explanation, please ask a clear question, not a “gotcha” gimmick.
Jason, my understanding is that Luther changed his position TO more anti-semitism/hatred of Jews towards the end of his life. Not the other way around. Is that incorrect? Thank you for always being loving towards your brothers in Christ, Jason. A great example to the Body of Christ and a witness to onlooking unbelievers.
Do we decide what parents we're going to have? Do we decide what country we're going to be born in? Do we decide what influential people will happen to cross our path and change our lives forever? No. But somehow we decide to choose Jesus? If it were not for all these other things and more that only He could orchestrate, I would never have come to Him. It is that realization how I came to be a Calvinist, not by hearing John MacArthur or James White. Only He has decreed and orchestrated all things for His glory.
I do think he is dangerous. Though I lean Refomed I don't like him. He misrepresents people time and again. He called the gospel "facets and data" nope. That tells me he leans so hard into his systematic far and above scripture. He is more concerned about defending Calvin of Christ.
You are being very dishonest! There are a pleroma of soundbites where Leighton Flowers misrepresents basic reformed theology and yet, no one calls him out on it. So, unless you were one of the few who has called Leighton Flowers out for misrepresenting reformed theology - you have no leg to stand on.
@NadirAhmed4245 I do..LF confidently does not state the line in the 1689 AFTER it says "God ordained whatever comes to pass.." go read the next line. It clears things up. LF never ever states that. JW called the gospel "Facts and data". Is it? No. He miss spoke with the greek time and again...and again.
The “facts and data” comment was poorly worded. In fairness to him, I think he meant “saved by mere knowledge of these things?,” echoing the words of James when he says, “Even the demons believe and tremble.”
@@eugenejoseph7076 🤔 It's like these questions never occur to them. Most Calvinists never take the time to look behind the curtain. ... maybe they're afraid of what they might find if the did.
@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Look behind the curtain? I have long since walked through that curtain, and it is so far behind me that I can't see it anymore. I was Arminian for 40 years. I know all the arguments. But I am now Calvinist and will be forever. My "looking behind the curtain" consisted of reading tons of books and sermons by the reformers and puritans. I did this while still an Arminian looking to prove Calvinism wrong. God used all that reading as the means to convince me of Calvinism. But nearly all Arminians won't go near those writings. Why? The most common and shallow excuse is that "I won't learn from a man! All I need is the Bible. Well, the Bible says God gave us teachers. To say you won't listen to a man is to deny God's provisions. Arminians are very shallow in their thinking. I know from being one for so long. Arminians think things must be either/or when they should be seeking to understand both/and. The prayer by Samuael Rutherford is an example of both/and, that is beyond Arminians grasp because they refuse to study the teachers that God has provided through the centuries. Now, I am sure that this will receive some snarky reply from an Arminian who is as stupid and lazy and hate filled as I was for 40 years. I pray that God will convince everyone reading this the truth of Calvinism.
@@Cici_Dial Lets leave the Arminians out of it. I'm not one so it's moot. Have you been guaranteed the "Gift of Perseverance" which God only gives to his elect according to Calvinist doctrine?
To me, no one infallible or anything, it seems obvious that Calvinism is belief in a God that cannot be loved with all one's heart, and all one's mind, and all one's soul. Therefore, I am left with no morally justifiable alternative but to attempt to minimize the number of people who believe in such a God as Mr. White preaches. And to me, to love Mr. White is to do what I can to persuade him to repent of what to me is his error. Because my Lord said these words; "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
I don't see it that way, he is a man of God, and if asking more emphatic questions is offensive, then we should abandon the debates. We have to stop having a "generation with too much freshness". Marcos USA
What makes a false teacher? Calvinism teaches the two wills of God and that He created some for damnation which somehow shows God’s justice, but that contradicts the plainly stated word of God. One does not become a Calvinist by simply reading the Bible; it must be taught. I am sure there are many true followers of Jesus who have been or are currently deceived by the teachings of Calvinism and I believe the Holy Spirit will reveal that to them and they will come out of it. James White has said that child r*pe is God’s will otherwise it’s purposeless. That is extremely disturbing and defames God’s holy and righteous character which He does not take lightly. Numbers 20:12 (NASB95): 12 But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”
You bring up atrocities and how Calvinists say they are ordained by God (which is what they do say). It’s always an emotional issue, but I ask anyway, why do you believe God didn’t prevent the atrocity if he was able? For what purpose did he stay his hand in your understanding? Please take my words as genuine. I’m not trying to stir up frustration but be peaceable.
@levifox2818 That's a false narrative. It's not "always an emotional issue". Those are things Calvinists actually believe and teach. Their god is the author and originator of all sin, even all and every single one of the contemplations to commit sins. And the other false narrative is "not preventing the sin/evil". The fact of choice of humans is the biblical norm from beginning to end, literally.
I respect James as in he has innate value and he is made in the image of God. But no I don’t respect deceivers and manipulators in any way beyond that sentence. I’m sure the Pharisees did some good work exposing false beliefs in their day but are we called to respect them in any way beyond the first sentence that I wrote? No I don’t think so. Willing to change my mind but I need compelling biblical evidence. Did Jesus show respect and gentleness to the Pharisees (those who were extremely well learned who “loved” their Bible and devoted their lives to their “God”?)
G4309 - proorizō Strong's Definitions: προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively)👉 predetermine👈-determine before, ordain, predestinate. Having predestinated G4309 us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Predestinated = predetermined Adoption as children(not adoption of redemptive bodies) = justification Context that proves adoption as sons = justification? The very next 2 verses. Ephesians 1:6-7 NKJV [6] to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. [7] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace This text is not talking about predestined for glorification after believing, although glorification comes with being predestined for justification. It's a package deal.
Are children rising up against their parents and causing them to be put to death proof of total depravity? Matthew 10:21 KJV [21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "I respect James as he has innate value". Jesus did die for him and for pharisees as well. He also called us to love our enemies. We are not Jesus, so we should be extremely cautious in how we treat others. Jesus calling pharisees vipers in very specific circunstances is not a free card for us, wretched sinners, to do the same with other sinners. There are plenty of biblical passages teaching us how to treat even those who do us harm, so I don't think this attitude of "I only respect him as far as I need to" is a Christ like behavior. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be disciplined or called out on their error, but even that should be done in brotherly love, with the right attitude. Like how Paul longed to see his fellow hardened Jews grafted back in.
@@fabriciofla8019 1. What i mean by *”I respect James as he has innate value"* is that James has been fearfully and wonderfully made in THE IMAGE OF GOD. This is not a light thing! We all have a soul given by God and are Gods special creation unlike anything else He has made like objects, laws of nature, animals, and things like that. We have inherent value from God and I highly respect that in every image bearer. Also like you said, Jesus died for James and every other person who is lost... we were bought at a price! This is not some kind of "cheap respect"... it is full of Gods love, grace, and mercy. Praise God that we are called to show such respect! It’s huge. Respect BEYOND respecting all men for being image bearers with deep value is respect that MUST BE earned. 2. You said *Jesus called us to "love our enemies."* Yes definitely, no objections there. I love James and desire his repentence and salvation, I desire the best for James. I dont respect him (beyond the respect, which is a deep and powerful thing, that I laid out in my first point). Please be honest with me, there are people in this world that you do not respect, and ought not to respect, because they are not RESPECTABLE people and do not deserve respect. Please I find this unintentional gaslighting that suddenly pearls are being clutched for not respecting manipulative and deceptive people. BEYOND what I laid out in point 1, do you RESPECT abortionists and murderers, do you RESPECT child abusers? 3. You said, *”Jesus calling pharisees vipers in very specific circumstances is not a free card for us, wretched sinners, to do the same with other sinners."* I do not see the specific circumstances you are making. Are you suggesting Jesus acted in such a way that we SHOULD NOT act? Paul also had some harsh words for false teachers and for the pharisees and those of the "circumcision" and we are told to IMITATE HIM as he imitates CHRIST. This is not unrighteous. I do not take it as a "free card". I am called to use the word of God to discern false teachers and deceivers. We are called to judge righteously. Jesus obviously was fully righteous and saved his harshest words for the wolves. Also a side note, we as children of God are not "wretched sinners" that is not the title God gives us in any way. If you read the bible God calls believers, His children, almost 200 different names and not a SINGLE one is even REMOTELY CLOSE to **ANYTHING** like "wretched sinner" and is always IN EVERY CASE a name of the exact opposite. Never once does God ever refer to His children as "wretched sinners". You will never find that in the bible. 4. *"There are plenty of biblical passages teaching us how to treat even those who do us harm, so I don't think this attitude of "I only respect him as far as I need to" is a Christ like behavior."* You do not have the correct understanding of the requirement of respect we are to give to even the worst of sinners. Which is the respect of being made in the God's image with innate value. You are acting like this is "cheap measly respect." No, it is incredibly deep, I would even say agape love. The respect that you are requiring I give is much more surface level and I do not have to give it to those who have not been respectable people. But I am required, and it even is my joy, to respect all people (even the worst of sinners) in the way we ARE required to by God which is on a much deeper level 5. You said, *”That doesn't mean they shouldn't be disciplined or called out on their error, but even that should be done in brotherly love, with the right attitude. Like how Paul longed to see his fellow hardened Jews grafted back in."* Right but even Paul said they were his brothers, his kinsmen ACCORDING TO THE *FLESH*. Paul was not saying they were his brothers spiritually because they were not. So yes I LONG to see hardened Calvinists saved. I seriously do long and PRAY for that. I'm actually praying for that all the time. Again, this is what AGAPE love looks like. And if I love them I will not lie to them and tell them they are not in DANGER. False teachers like James White are not saved according to the bible so how would I be loving him or the Church if I spread more confusion and rejected God's instructions and His written word?
@@Loves2HugItOut Thank you for the clarification, it wasn't clear to me what you meant by respect. It sounded like a "token" respect. I'm glad to know that is not the case. I am, however, a little confused by your point about the term I used, "wretched sinners". You are right that God does not directly call us that, but surely you do not deny the truth that we are indeed grave sinners, and are only called children of God by his mercy and grace, which does not negate the fact that we are, indeed, sinners. Being a sinner is something so grave and serious that the adverb "wretched" seems rightly appropriate to me, considering I am a sinner that recognizes my wretchedness. It's not God calling me that, because He is that gracious and mercifull, but that does not mean we cannot regonize that and be thankfull to Him that on the last day He will free us from that condition. As Isaiah said, “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”. So, indeed, God does not call us wretched sinners directly himself, but many saints regonized themselves as wretched sinners when confronted with God's holiness. I would also like to note that my initial confusion about the term respect stems from the fact that some of your posts have a very self righteous tone. I do not intend to be mean or gaslight you in any way, I am merely pointing that out so you can reflect on it, if perhaps I wasn't the first person to say that to you. I may very well be completely wrong in my assessment of you, so take that as you will.
i’ll be looking forward to your next video, 5 things i respect about the prophet muhammad. he’s genuine, he’s funny… videos like this serve the christian faith in no way. and in the opening line you quoted, JW was definitely genuine - genuinely looking to hang his hat on something he could defeat with a one-liner he could repeat at the end of the debate to say he won. exactly like he did to leighton flowers. please do not do any more of these
Although I respect that you speak kindly of James White Jason, I think you need to call out the damage the doctrine of Calvinism does to body of Christ & any in the community who hear the heresy they preach. I understand that they usually don't come right out & say Jesus didn't die for all & world doesn't mean world, but from the Calvinists I know there is a pride & coldness about them & they seem to become like the god they worship & preach about I am married to a 5 point Calvinist & I think I have said it before that my husband wouldn't let our 5 little children sing "Jesus loves me " because He doesn't love them because they are wicked little sinners. When I was once diagnosed with carpel tunnel syndrome in my left hand while pregnant with my 5th child, my husband suggested to me that maybe God was trying to tell me something, that this was happening to me because I was in the wrong doctrine! I must add I was also born with no right hand due to amniotic banding, so you can imagine how this made me feel. He also suggested that my father wasn't a Christian because maybe God didn't choose him. My dad had grown up in a reformed church & Sunday school as a boy & once he left home he never went back to church. God led me to write him a letter to him about a month before he died explaining the story of the Lost Sheep & that he was the like lost sheep & the Lord left the 99 to find him. My dad came to the Lord about 2 weeks before he had a heart attack & died. I cannot explain all the coldness & pain I have suffered under a Calvinist church. My youngest married daughter still suffers from anxiety that she's going to hell despite her being a strong born again Christian. The Calvinist preaching she was under only preached on sin , hell & Gods hate of sinners. She is now seeing a Christian psychologist & is listening to Leighton Flowers, you, Idol Killer & Mike Winger, she still is on a long road of recovery. Please Please call out the heresy of the doctrine of Calvinism & be more aware of the damage it causes to Christians & non Christians alike.
I think Calvin and Calvinism gets too much credit. What I believe and know about Eternal Creator God was mercifully given to me through the Saving faith I received from Him, when I went from death unto life. I know Eternal God as my Sovereign Creator, my Savior, and the appointor of the date and time I will leave this life to be with Him eternally. Are there Calvinist elements in my views of the absolute Sovereignty of Eternal God in my life - from my creation - to my Salvation - to this time of my life of nearly 83 yrs - perhaps. But does it matter? What matters most is the awesome Sovereignty of Eternal God that envelopes me, even as I exercise limited freewill in my daily life, while always overshadowed by His Sovereign will.
I appreciate your testimony, and respect it. But, how are you defining 'sovereign will'? And, do you know for sure you have received the "Gift of Perseverance"? R. C. Sproul confessed he didn't know, and asked people to pray he'd continue in the faith... as if their prayers might help.🤔 Even though, according to his own doctrine of 'no rogue molecules', i.e., God's meticulous determination of all things from before the foundation of the world, (especially 'election to salvation'), his eternal destiny was unchangeably predetermined before he even existed. God could not be said to be 'responding' to prayers about his salvation.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT..I was created by God and it was His Sovereign decision to do so - not mine. He has been a faithful God to me, long before I recognized Him as my Sovereign Savior and King of my life. Looking back over the nearly 83 yrs of my life, I can see He surrounded me with the same 'hedge' he surrounded His servant Job. Not only did He surround me, but also my enslaved Ancestors who He enabled to survive the horrors of rapes, brandings, lynchings, dehuminizations, Jim Crowisms, etc. Had He not always been making 'a way out of no way' for my Ancestors and me, I would not be here today able to write on this blog. If there is any greater evidence to, and example of, the awesome Sovereignty of Eternal God along with the gift of Perseverance He has given me and my Ancestors, I cant imagine what it is or could be. I hope I have answered your question as to what I mean by Eternal God's Sovereignty and Sovereign will, in every sense of these terms.
@@lbamusic The words you used still didn't address how you are trying to use 'sovereignty'. Calvinists employ the word, but not in it's proper definitive meaning. By definition, a 'sovereign' power, (in this instance 'God'), can do whatever he chooses, but is no obligated to anything. He is not required to control anything simply because he could if he chose to. Are you saying that God created and, ordained and predestined Hitler to do exactly what he did and that the same holds true for Jeffery Dahmer's appetite, and the murders of children he committed? It's a fare question. Actually, all the history aside, and with respect to your ancestors, these things do not 'prove' God's sovereign "meticulous determination" of anything. They can represent his ability to use circumstances to bring about something he desires. Enduring life's hardships is admirable, but it doesn't confirm the "Gift of Perseverance" Calvinism requires is necessary for salvation as referenced by Calvinism's doctrines of TULIP. And, I'm sure you're not suggesting all your ancestors were elected "to be" saved in eternity by God. That would be quite remarkable.
I did not make myself clear. Sorry. God chose the Jews to bring forth the Saviour. When Jesus was on earth He came for the lost children of Israel. When He sent out the He told them to not go to the gentiles but t0 the Jews. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Rom 10:5-6 When He save the Syrophoenician woman He plainly called gentiles dogs. He has chosen Israel to bring the Saviour and to spread the gospel during the trib. (Rev 7; 14).
I love James and everyone else. I have no respect for him as an intentional teacher of falsity. Flowers has shown how he is intentionally deceiving his own audience of which I am a former whose seen past him.
@@GoodBerean I think it's a safe bet. It's like someone trying to apologize who says "I'm sorry you were offended", instead of saying "I'm sorry I offended you".
@@levifox2818Good point! I was thinking this whole time that it was more defined as someone who complains/insults/has a one-way conversation without letting the other person respond. After looking at the definition, I wasn’t looking at it in a “psychological manipulation” way, more like he’s probably going to go on his broadcast and say something and then disable the comments
@@gdmead Okay that’s fair. Thanks for the clarification. In fairness to Dr. White, he always has comments turned off because they are often hateful and misinformative (which is true regardless of the channel you go to)-and as he says, he doesn’t have the patience for them.
Yes James has fancy accolades next to his name. Just because James has gotten a doctorate in Bible twisting and demonic manipulation tactics, that doesn’t mean God is requiring me to be impressed with that. 🤷♀️ Did Jesus call the religious leaders by their fancy titles? No, He referred to them as brood of vipers, sons of Satan, and hypocrites. I imagine the only time Jesus would call them by any reverent or respectable title would be as a form of irony.
Grow some balls brother. Just say the truth and stop trying to be winsom. The truth sometimes offends people. Everyone can see that James White is a completely dishonest person that is full of pride and had no interest in honest debate. All he does is make personal attacks and other deceptive tactics.
@@johndisalvo6283 yes he died for them but in many ways they were given opportunities for repentance. That is the Lords grace. He doesn’t delight in the death of the wicked. We know that nicodemus and Paul responded and I’m sure some others, but not many.
@aletheia8054 He foreknows wolves. He foreknows they will be wolves until the day they die. Thank God we have a loving God whose foreknowledge can not be wrong. Anything else would be disastrous.
the man chose not to accept leighton’s gift of the banjo that was meant in good will. he does not respect leighton and he does not respect you. he sees you as inferior. and videos like this will only pander to his ego, makes him feel justified in his behavior, and make him respect you even less. he know’s he’s being dishonest and by his perspective, if you cannot see that and are not working to call him on that, why would he ever believe what you see in scripture? he does not and will not respect you. turning a blind eye in kindness will never work to reach him. that is weakness and permission to him. respect is the only path, here. call the man’s behavior and doctrine out for what it is. force his respect.
@@levifox2818 was it Jesus who flipped tables over in the marketplace? some people do not respond to grace, or “salt’s because they see it as weakness. you must earn their respect first. then once you have earned their respect through strength, they will receive your grace as grace and not weakness. mere grace does not work in prisons. and white’s mentality is extremely similar in that way. White makes this clear by the way he discredits his opponents. “this” is why my opponent is wrong. not because his argument is wrong but because the opponent is not “qualified.” for some people you have to earn the right to be heard. they work on respect. that’s why white is so high in himself with all of his accomplishments. and if you are not higher than him in his opinion, he will not respect nor hear you in whatever you have to say. no matter how right you are because respect, to him, comes first. just like in a prison.
@@levifox2818 what did Jesus say when He overturned the tables? He called out the irreverence of the money changers and demanded respect for His Father’s house. He called the pharisees a brood of vipers. he did not comment on how quick witted they were. try your philosophy in jail and RIP the seventh planet. White is a respecter of persons. if you want to communicate clearly with someone, you show them kindness by entering their world and speaking to them in terms they understand. sometimes that means flipping tables and calling vipers out for what they are before extending grace to them. otherwise is is received as weakness rather than meekness.
@@scottibreiding Jesus never said we are in charge of how people interpret our actions. I agree there is a time to be more stern, but we need less of that right now, not more. Christ’s default rule was clear-and the example he gave: “When [Christ] was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.” I’m not interested in “my philosophy” or how well it works in prison. I’m interested in following Christ’s instruction and example and trusting God to handle people as he wills.
Would you say the same of Paul? “…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”-(Romans 10:9).
@@minorsingingairhead Paul ties confessing Jesus is Lord (as opposed to Cesar is Lord) directly to salvation, parallel with believing Jesus was raised.
This is my expreiance so yes it's subjective. fellowship with calvanist's is hard unedifing and unproductive. When looking to do out reach with Mormons there out each plan was to use tulip and to start with total depravity then I would have LDS saying how can my parent's give good gifts. They start arguments the proof text many taken out of context or with isegesis applied clearly they have got there interptaion from a James white Luther ect and no historical or cultural back ground applied. There often slanderous think they have the spirit of diserment and aplly motives to genuine qrestions there leadership drink smoke and get tattoed are they saved YES salvation is all jesus but I can't fellowship with them my old church did work with exofenders that came to jesus and there is no way you could have a calvanist using there libity around them it would cause them to fall So my conclusion is we should warn others that there fatlisium will cause pain in bad fruit
You said Dr. White is "trying to learn" your systematic theology. That's really, really funny. James White doesn't need to "learn" your Self Deterministic doctrine which worships an imaginary autonomous free will. It's the oldest doctrine in history, and revealed in Cain.
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You're a better man than I, Jason. I don't. I mean I do in the sense that he's created in God's image, but he's like human sabotage. I can't imagine meaningfully collaborating with him in service of Jesus without everything turning into a gaslighting nightmare.
I respect James as another human being. Besides that there's no extra respect deserved.
We should definitely love James white and pray for him. But his behaviour towards you and others HAS to be called out. It is unacceptable the way he treats other Christians.
I don't see it that way, he is a man of God, and if asking more emphatic questions is offensive, then we should abandon the debates. We have to stop having a "generation with too much freshness".
@RESISTENCIAPOLOGETICA Literally nobody cares about "emphatic question's". We're not even talking about the debates. We are talking about his behavior. His attitude towards people.
@@daltonbrasier5491 The problem is this, I don't see the disrespect you observed. What matters is the argument and not the behavior itself, although one should not be arrogant with anyone. To give an example, many people in our time do not vote for Bolsonaro in Brazil or for Trump in the US, because they think they are very rude in their speech. This is nonsense, just look at how both of them betrayed their countries, how they left the economy of these nations? What matters is this, in the same way, it does not matter how James White expresses himself, but his arguments, if they are biblical, but the person does not want to accept them, it is the person's right.
@RESISTENCIAPOLOGETICA again this isn't about the debate. This is about his behaviour as a christian. The Bible is very clear how we are supposed to act and that he needs to repent of his behaviour. He is sinning against his brothers. His arguments in a debate are irrelevant.
@@daltonbrasier5491 And I say again that you are wrong, because what was the "sin" he committed in the debate? I am not his lawyer, my dear! I am just saying that the argument in the debate is worth more than how I say it. Explain to me what you did to make him so "revolted"??? That's it!
Calvinism does NOT teach BIBLICAL salvation. It teaches they are CHOSEN and have no say in their salvation.
It’s a good thing I dont have a say in my salvation
@@aletheia8054 How does one 'know' they are saved if they don't have a say in it? I know I'm saved because God's Holy Spirit lives in me and affirms it. I don't need anyone or anything to tell me I'm saved. God's word shows me how to know, 1 John 2:24
@@aletheia8054 You had better. Because God's word is clear. You must believe on His name and blood (John 3:16; Rom 3:25) to have eternal life.
@@aletheia8054 That's a lie. Repent.
@@itlupe The child of God must believe
Most Calvinists were believers before they became convinced of TULIP. IMO, affirming TULIP does not preclude a believer from being saved regardless of how confused they may become about "how" it happened. The problem is going forward because of how the doctrine casts a shadow of doubt over having confidence that God truly loves any one specific person, even the man in the mirror.
@R.L. That is very true. I was someone who believed in Calvinism after I was saved, then repented and believed the biblical narrative.
@@tedfordhyde tks for your reply. PTL you made it out of the fog with your faith in tact. Many former Calvinists don't. And, sadly, those who remain believe apostasy is as much God's decree as was the faith they now deny. There's evil behind that curtain.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Much agreed. It is definitely a theology that "makes shipwreck of the faith of some" as Paul said. Very sad.
@@tedfordhyde 🎯🎯
Thanks for this. I made a comment about loving Jeff Durbin and James White in one of their videos and some of their followers said that I was inconsistent in loving Calvinists as a non-Calvinist. It’s upsetting to me that we can’t love each other as brothers in our disagreement, and yet we have been instructed to love even our enemies.
As a Calvinist with many non Calvinist friends and family, let me assure you that not all of us who behave that way. I think it might be a people problem, not a Calvinist problem 😅
@@sevencrickets9258 yes, absolutely.
Jesus died for the Pharisee's, He loved them, they were his children that He created. He still called them vipers and white washed tombs, kinda like swearing at them in their day. No matter how much clutching of pearl's or spuing HOW DARE THEY's, it will NEVER justify them besmirching God's character.
@@atyt11 John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me
@@sevencrickets9258 nothing here I don’t agree with👊🏼👊🏼
If you’re a Calvinist, you think the sheep are the elect
if you’re a non-Calvinist, you think the sheep are those who humble themselves, and believe ✌🏼
I continue to notice your humility and true desire to learn and grow in your ability to speak truth effectively. I can’t wait for your series on Romans!
I believe most Calvinists are saved but I don’t see how there can be unity with them. They change and add to God’s Word and follow a man-made system that alters the gospel.
On one hand you have Paul’s statement, “if anyone comes preaching another gospel…”, and on the other the disciples struggled to free themselves from false teaching of their day and arguing with Jesus about it, and they needed a kick in the pants to take the message to the gentiles even though He told them it was going to happen many times.
In the end, the ones that take the position of elder/teacher and refuse to be chastised by the word, are not spoken well of in scripture.
Many claim the name of Jesus but follow the teachings of man-made systems, of which there are many, and which are contrary to scripture.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB95): 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB95): The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
As a christian, can I love someone and completely disrespect his views on just about everything he teaches and beleives? I hope so, cause that's where I land with this person.
Dr. James white has defended the faith from atheist to Muslims and as a trinitarian Christian you take this stance against him? Shame on you!
@@joelc-gc1hq. SHAME ON YOU FOR BELIEVING WHITE’S BLASPHEMOUS HERETICAL GNOSTIC CALVINISM!
@@joelc-gc1hq the God he defends throws people into hell just because it's a, wait, mystery! Christ sacrifice on the cross is limited to a 'few elect' as though He could only make a way for the 'special' elect Calvinists. John's gospel states clearly that He is creator of all things. But reformers treat it as though His Deity was just not 'divine' enough to make a way for all men to be saved!! Reformers decide to limit His sacrifice on the Cross to a few??? Give me a break. He preaches determinism which is identical to Islam....Allah wills!! He's not defending our Lord Jesus, he's agreement with their views. Perhaps if you bothered reading you bible without referring every single thought to the writings of reformers and instead lean on the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth, John 16:13, 1John 2:27. If you lean on men to show you the truth, I feel sorry for you.
@@joelc-gc1hq thanks for that. But then again, every response I get from reformers like you are insults. Go ahead and preach Calvinism and I'll just make sure I tell everyone I meet that Jesus loves them and made a way for them to be saved John 3:16-17. Unlike Calvinists who can't even tell people God loves them because they're not sure He does or they may not be one of the 'elect'. God Almighty!!, how can you preach that?? If you wanna defend that, go ahead. We will all stand before God one day and I'm pretty sure He won't ask me, "So child, I hope you didn't tell everyone that I love them? Because, I don't love everyone, just the elect." Tell me that's not White's teachings?
Brother, his point was that you said you disagree with almost everything he teaches. That would mean you are against teaching Jesus is God Almighty, you are against teaching God is triune, you are against teaching that works do not save, you are against teaching that Jesus died to save sinners, etc. It is uncharitable to view every doctrine someone believes and defends as negative because you disagree with them on one, albeit an important one.
I think that was his point. And although I don’t wish shame on anyone, can you see that your comment was overstated?
Thank you for this, Jason! I have a new friend at church who is Calvinist and I needed this reminder ❤
Sometimes we need a break from contentiousness.... It's hard for anyone to learn from another if they feel they're under attack.
Loving the Calvinist not the Calvinism is like love the Vegan not the veganism I don't want to be around when they talk about what they really care about
I think I’m missing your point. It sounds like you’re saying you wouldn’t want to be around a vegan when they talk about veganism. If that’s the case, I would ask why?
@@levifox2818 it can be other things other than veganism I picked veganism because it can basically become a religion to them. It's been my experience that no matter what the conversation is about eventually it will come back to veganism. Calvinists are the same way no matter what you're talking about eventually it will come back to Calvinism because that's truly what they care about.
@@plumber1874
I don’t think that’s fair at all. One of my close friends is a vegan, and conversations don’t always (or usually) go there. I don’t think any of my non-Calvinist friends would say my conversations always go to Calvinism. I don’t even know if many of them know I’m Calvinist. But I think the problem with your statement, in my opinion, is you make it sound like that makes “loving the Calvinist” impossible. I can bear with Provisionist who always want to make that the topic. Can’t the love go the other way around?
Online interaction can be like driving in traffic - it’s easy to be outraged and aggressive with people we don’t actually have to confront directly 😂 Thanks for your loving demeanor in spite of those temptations
Do you need anger management?
I appreciate your beautiful humble approach to all this. Something that grieves my husband and I is all the division caused by Calvinism vs Arminianism vs provisionism. I see false converts in each camp. I see great fruit as well in camp.
We have learned so much from some of our Calvinist brothers though we wouldn’t agree on everything. I also have learned from other sides.
When I see bashing and putting downs, insults ect it’s not the Spirit of Christ.
Your channel is exactly what we all need to have a safe place to learn and grow together. ❤😊
Amen! I have a lot of respect for Dr. White and Apologia despite being a Provisionist, and seeing the feud between him and Flowers has been disheartening. Thank you for leading by example!
Great job Jason. You are more gracious than I am. Almost to a fault, but I give you credit for it 😊...
Let’s Gooooo!
I respect that you're so gracious, Jason.
Hi Jason happy Easter and I pray you are resting in the love and grace of Jesus and His good news today. My mother and I have been studying through the gospel of John for some months now going chapter by chapter every weekend and very wonderfully we finished the last chapter, chapter 21 yesterday. So today we read through the entirety of the book of John, perfect timing for Easter🙏🏻! and I really believe the Lord ministered to me about quite a few things but something I thought I could share with you. You’ve probably seen this before but just thought it was a wonderful reminder
We see how Jesus acted towards the prideful Pharisees. HOWEVER, interestingly, notice how Jesus would respond and act with nicodemus (also part of the Pharisees). Much different. Because nicodemus humbled himself. We know Jesus resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. I find the interactions with nicodemus so incredibly beautiful if you follow his story and the context of all that. So many things to say about that, including that nicodemus even after the crucifixion came early in the quietness of the morning with oils and fragrances to wrap Jesus’s body in stripes of cloth with Joseph to give Jesus a proper burial. Jesus DID tell nicodemus that he needed to be born again because he was not believing His witness but Jesus was more heavy on grace with nicodemus then the more prideful more hardened other Pharisees where Jesus was much more heavy on the truth with them exposing the truth of their condition, who they have become, and warning of the ramifications of a refusal to repent. It is worthy to note that nicodemus really stood out from the Pharisees and being willing to listen to the Spirit, was not that common when you are part of a culture with spiritual condition like that of the Pharisees.
This is all very eye opening especially if you follow everything with the dynamics that went on during Jesus’ earthly ministry.
I know I give some pushback but I hope I can write in ways that is encouraging and not defeating. I can be a little bold and spicy sometimes (don’t always think that’s a bad thing) but I want to be consciously aware of how that can come across online
God bless you richly Jason. The Prince of peace and hope of the world is risen indeed! Hallelujah 🙏🏻🌅
Thank you, Kristen! I appreciate your words and comments always. Blessings in Christ.
@@GoodBerean 🙏🏻❤️✝️
I think this is a very Godly and respectful video towards another Brother in Christ - whether you agree in whole or in part with his theology. Eternal God has called us not to wrath and war, but to peace with our fellow Brethren.
Love your humility in this Jason!
And that intro music! ❤
Our love for Calvinists is a for sure way to demonstrate the deficiencies in their systematic. Where God in Calvinism joins in with the Priests and Levites in passing by the half-dead man, God in provisionism shows Himself to be maximally glorious by joining in with the good Samaritan to render aid to those that would be His enemies, teaching us to love our enemies as He did.
As for hating the Calvinism, both it and the fruit of it, in how James White, though you respect him, I struggle in finding much to respect, based on his conduct and character in how he has slandered and misrepresented Leighton Flowers, to the end that it appears as hate from him.
Non-Reformed guys and gals don’t like Dr White, but if you get to know him a bit he’s a genuine man who truly walks in his faith. I appreciate so much that he actually carries himself like a man of God. With all we see today going in within the church, leaders who are not living out their faith that to me is so important. Dr White has never been in it for the money, or anything other than a genuine love of the Lord. He maybe a bit snarky sometimes, but you have to understand all that he has had to put up with over the years being the apologist that he is. No matter what you think of him, he’s a Godly, extremely intelligent, well read, Man of God.
I really appreciate your goal to bring unity and peace over the issue of Calvinism. I’m a Calvinist and I think it’s an important issue, but far more destructive than erring on this very deep theological point is the divisiveness both sides stir up-often intentionally.
This issue (on both sides) is tracing very deep into philosophy and compatibilism vs. incompatibilism and isn’t basic level theology at all. If we don’t have room to err when we look in wonder on the infinite God, I don’t think anyone can stand.
I can’t tell you how much the divisiveness grieves my heart and how much your attempt at an irenic approach blesses me, but I do pray you are able to carry through.
The thought of you in hell grieves my heart. What you call "compatibilism", I see as a human contrived coping mechanism, to excuse you for accusing God of wanting things like little girls being raped for the umpteenth time today. That's a very serious accusation it seems to me. One wonders why you feel the need to make it. Why do you do that?
PPS - And why are you lamenting the divisiveness God wants to happen, according to your doctrines?
@@johnknight3529
I really don’t mean this to come across as frustrated, but this gimmick only shows a lack of subject understanding. If you don’t understand what I mean, I’d be happy to explain
@@levifox2818 - Gimmick? Lack of subject understanding? I suspect you're not really a heart knower.
You can explain all you want, you don't need permission from me . . but please first respond to my question.
@@johnknight3529
My friend; I never insinuated anything about your heart. The question is the problem. This is one of the various iterations of “I guess I was predestined to reject Calvinism.”
In short, the issue is Calvinists hold a person can be responsible for an evil act while God is still doing good in and through it. So I can grieve over all of the legitimate evil people are doing to one another through inflammatory comments while still trusting God for the good he is doing in what he willed to happen.
If you want a longer explanation, please ask a clear question, not a “gotcha” gimmick.
Wow did I get tricked by this title. Comment section shines a bright light too.
Jason, my understanding is that Luther changed his position TO more anti-semitism/hatred of Jews towards the end of his life. Not the other way around. Is that incorrect?
Thank you for always being loving towards your brothers in Christ, Jason. A great example to the Body of Christ and a witness to onlooking unbelievers.
He originally tried witnessing to them and took their rejection personally.
Do we decide what parents we're going to have? Do we decide what country we're going to be born in? Do we decide what influential people will happen to cross our path and change our lives forever? No. But somehow we decide to choose Jesus? If it were not for all these other things and more that only He could orchestrate, I would never have come to Him. It is that realization how I came to be a Calvinist, not by hearing John MacArthur or James White. Only He has decreed and orchestrated all things for His glory.
I do think he is dangerous. Though I lean Refomed I don't like him. He misrepresents people time and again.
He called the gospel "facets and data" nope. That tells me he leans so hard into his systematic far and above scripture. He is more concerned about defending Calvin of Christ.
You are being very dishonest! There are a pleroma of soundbites where Leighton Flowers misrepresents basic reformed theology and yet, no one calls him out on it. So, unless you were one of the few who has called Leighton Flowers out for misrepresenting reformed theology - you have no leg to stand on.
@@CalebPreach4245. No, you are lying! Leighton WAS A CALVINIST . Try again !
@NadirAhmed4245
I do..LF confidently does not state the line in the 1689 AFTER it says "God ordained whatever comes to pass.." go read the next line. It clears things up. LF never ever states that.
JW called the gospel "Facts and data". Is it? No. He miss spoke with the greek time and again...and again.
@@victor-antonioali378
I just said he was dangerous. Do with that whatever you want.
The “facts and data” comment was poorly worded. In fairness to him, I think he meant “saved by mere knowledge of these things?,” echoing the words of James when he says, “Even the demons believe and tremble.”
“I pray God that I may never find my will again. Oh, that Christ would subject my will to His, and trample it under His feet.”
- Samuel Rutherford
Did he pray that prayer from his freewill? Talk about a dichotomy!
@@eugenejoseph7076 🤔 It's like these questions never occur to them. Most Calvinists never take the time to look behind the curtain. ... maybe they're afraid of what they might find if the did.
@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Look behind the curtain? I have long since walked through that curtain, and it is so far behind me that I can't see it anymore. I was Arminian for 40 years. I know all the arguments. But I am now Calvinist and will be forever. My "looking behind the curtain" consisted of reading tons of books and sermons by the reformers and puritans. I did this while still an Arminian looking to prove Calvinism wrong. God used all that reading as the means to convince me of Calvinism. But nearly all Arminians won't go near those writings. Why? The most common and shallow excuse is that "I won't learn from a man! All I need is the Bible. Well, the Bible says God gave us teachers. To say you won't listen to a man is to deny God's provisions. Arminians are very shallow in their thinking. I know from being one for so long. Arminians think things must be either/or when they should be seeking to understand both/and. The prayer by Samuael Rutherford is an example of both/and, that is beyond Arminians grasp because they refuse to study the teachers that God has provided through the centuries. Now, I am sure that this will receive some snarky reply from an Arminian who is as stupid and lazy and hate filled as I was for 40 years. I pray that God will convince everyone reading this the truth of Calvinism.
@@Cici_Dial Lets leave the Arminians out of it. I'm not one so it's moot. Have you been guaranteed the "Gift of Perseverance" which God only gives to his elect according to Calvinist doctrine?
To me, no one infallible or anything, it seems obvious that Calvinism is belief in a God that cannot be loved with all one's heart, and all one's mind, and all one's soul. Therefore, I am left with no morally justifiable alternative but to attempt to minimize the number of people who believe in such a God as Mr. White preaches. And to me, to love Mr. White is to do what I can to persuade him to repent of what to me is his error. Because my Lord said these words;
"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!"
I don't see it that way, he is a man of God, and if asking more emphatic questions is offensive, then we should abandon the debates. We have to stop having a "generation with too much freshness".
Marcos USA
You won that debate! Everyone knows Romans 8 has nothing to do with the gentiles. Looking forward to the doubling down on those first eight chapters.
What makes a false teacher? Calvinism teaches the two wills of God and that He created some for damnation which somehow shows God’s justice, but that contradicts the plainly stated word of God. One does not become a Calvinist by simply reading the Bible; it must be taught. I am sure there are many true followers of Jesus who have been or are currently deceived by the teachings of Calvinism and I believe the Holy Spirit will reveal that to them and they will come out of it. James White has said that child r*pe is God’s will otherwise it’s purposeless. That is extremely disturbing and defames God’s holy and righteous character which He does not take lightly. Numbers 20:12 (NASB95): 12 But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you have not believed Me, to treat Me as holy in the sight of the sons of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”
You bring up atrocities and how Calvinists say they are ordained by God (which is what they do say). It’s always an emotional issue, but I ask anyway, why do you believe God didn’t prevent the atrocity if he was able? For what purpose did he stay his hand in your understanding?
Please take my words as genuine. I’m not trying to stir up frustration but be peaceable.
@levifox2818 That's a false narrative. It's not "always an emotional issue". Those are things Calvinists actually believe and teach. Their god is the author and originator of all sin, even all and every single one of the contemplations to commit sins. And the other false narrative is "not preventing the sin/evil". The fact of choice of humans is the biblical norm from beginning to end, literally.
@@tedfordhyde
A child being abused isn’t emotional to you?
Morning Jason! 😊😊
Good morning, Elaine! Blessings sister
I respect James as in he has innate value and he is made in the image of God. But no I don’t respect deceivers and manipulators in any way beyond that sentence. I’m sure the Pharisees did some good work exposing false beliefs in their day but are we called to respect them in any way beyond the first sentence that I wrote? No I don’t think so. Willing to change my mind but I need compelling biblical evidence. Did Jesus show respect and gentleness to the Pharisees (those who were extremely well learned who “loved” their Bible and devoted their lives to their “God”?)
G4309 - proorizō
Strong's Definitions: προορίζω proorízō, pro-or-id'-zo; from G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, i.e. (figuratively)👉 predetermine👈-determine before, ordain, predestinate.
Having predestinated G4309 us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Predestinated = predetermined
Adoption as children(not adoption of redemptive bodies) = justification
Context that proves adoption as sons = justification?
The very next 2 verses.
Ephesians 1:6-7 NKJV
[6] to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. [7] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
This text is not talking about predestined for glorification after believing, although glorification comes with being predestined for justification. It's a package deal.
Are children rising up against their parents and causing them to be put to death proof of total depravity?
Matthew 10:21 KJV
[21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "I respect James as he has innate value". Jesus did die for him and for pharisees as well. He also called us to love our enemies.
We are not Jesus, so we should be extremely cautious in how we treat others. Jesus calling pharisees vipers in very specific circunstances is not a free card for us, wretched sinners, to do the same with other sinners.
There are plenty of biblical passages teaching us how to treat even those who do us harm, so I don't think this attitude of "I only respect him as far as I need to" is a Christ like behavior.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't be disciplined or called out on their error, but even that should be done in brotherly love, with the right attitude. Like how Paul longed to see his fellow hardened Jews grafted back in.
@@fabriciofla8019
1. What i mean by *”I respect James as he has innate value"* is that James has been fearfully and wonderfully made in THE IMAGE OF GOD. This is not a light thing! We all have a soul given by God and are Gods special creation unlike anything else He has made like objects, laws of nature, animals, and things like that. We have inherent value from God and I highly respect that in every image bearer. Also like you said, Jesus died for James and every other person who is lost... we were bought at a price! This is not some kind of "cheap respect"... it is full of Gods love, grace, and mercy. Praise God that we are called to show such respect! It’s huge. Respect BEYOND respecting all men for being image bearers with deep value is respect that MUST BE earned.
2. You said *Jesus called us to "love our enemies."* Yes definitely, no objections there. I love James and desire his repentence and salvation, I desire the best for James. I dont respect him (beyond the respect, which is a deep and powerful thing, that I laid out in my first point). Please be honest with me, there are people in this world that you do not respect, and ought not to respect, because they are not RESPECTABLE people and do not deserve respect. Please I find this unintentional gaslighting that suddenly pearls are being clutched for not respecting manipulative and deceptive people. BEYOND what I laid out in point 1, do you RESPECT abortionists and murderers, do you RESPECT child abusers?
3. You said, *”Jesus calling pharisees vipers in very specific circumstances is not a free card for us, wretched sinners, to do the same with other sinners."* I do not see the specific circumstances you are making. Are you suggesting Jesus acted in such a way that we SHOULD NOT act? Paul also had some harsh words for false teachers and for the pharisees and those of the "circumcision" and we are told to IMITATE HIM as he imitates CHRIST. This is not unrighteous. I do not take it as a "free card". I am called to use the word of God to discern false teachers and deceivers. We are called to judge righteously. Jesus obviously was fully righteous and saved his harshest words for the wolves. Also a side note, we as children of God are not "wretched sinners" that is not the title God gives us in any way. If you read the bible God calls believers, His children, almost 200 different names and not a SINGLE one is even REMOTELY CLOSE to **ANYTHING** like "wretched sinner" and is always IN EVERY CASE a name of the exact opposite. Never once does God ever refer to His children as "wretched sinners". You will never find that in the bible.
4. *"There are plenty of biblical passages teaching us how to treat even those who do us harm, so I don't think this attitude of "I only respect him as far as I need to" is a Christ like behavior."*
You do not have the correct understanding of the requirement of respect we are to give to even the worst of sinners. Which is the respect of being made in the God's image with innate value. You are acting like this is "cheap measly respect." No, it is incredibly deep, I would even say agape love. The respect that you are requiring I give is much more surface level and I do not have to give it to those who have not been respectable people. But I am required, and it even is my joy, to respect all people (even the worst of sinners) in the way we ARE required to by God which is on a much deeper level
5. You said, *”That doesn't mean they shouldn't be disciplined or called out on their error, but even that should be done in brotherly love, with the right attitude. Like how Paul longed to see his fellow hardened Jews grafted back in."*
Right but even Paul said they were his brothers, his kinsmen ACCORDING TO THE *FLESH*. Paul was not saying they were his brothers spiritually because they were not. So yes I LONG to see hardened Calvinists saved. I seriously do long and PRAY for that. I'm actually praying for that all the time. Again, this is what AGAPE love looks like. And if I love them I will not lie to them and tell them they are not in DANGER. False teachers like James White are not saved according to the bible so how would I be loving him or the Church if I spread more confusion and rejected God's instructions and His written word?
@@Loves2HugItOut Thank you for the clarification, it wasn't clear to me what you meant by respect. It sounded like a "token" respect. I'm glad to know that is not the case.
I am, however, a little confused by your point about the term I used, "wretched sinners". You are right that God does not directly call us that, but surely you do not deny the truth that we are indeed grave sinners, and are only called children of God by his mercy and grace, which does not negate the fact that we are, indeed, sinners. Being a sinner is something so grave and serious that the adverb "wretched" seems rightly appropriate to me, considering I am a sinner that recognizes my wretchedness. It's not God calling me that, because He is that gracious and mercifull, but that does not mean we cannot regonize that and be thankfull to Him that on the last day He will free us from that condition.
As Isaiah said, “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!”.
So, indeed, God does not call us wretched sinners directly himself, but many saints regonized themselves as wretched sinners when confronted with God's holiness.
I would also like to note that my initial confusion about the term respect stems from the fact that some of your posts have a very self righteous tone. I do not intend to be mean or gaslight you in any way, I am merely pointing that out so you can reflect on it, if perhaps I wasn't the first person to say that to you. I may very well be completely wrong in my assessment of you, so take that as you will.
i’ll be looking forward to your next video, 5 things i respect about the prophet muhammad. he’s genuine, he’s funny… videos like this serve the christian faith in no way.
and in the opening line you quoted, JW was definitely genuine - genuinely looking to hang his hat on something he could defeat with a one-liner he could repeat at the end of the debate to say he won. exactly like he did to leighton flowers.
please do not do any more of these
Although I respect that you speak kindly of James White Jason, I think you need to call out the damage the doctrine of Calvinism does to body of Christ & any in the community who hear the heresy they preach. I understand that they usually don't come right out & say Jesus didn't die for all & world doesn't mean world, but from the Calvinists I know there is a pride & coldness about them & they seem to become like the god they worship & preach about I am married to a 5 point Calvinist & I think I have said it before that my husband wouldn't let our 5 little children sing "Jesus loves me " because He doesn't love them because they are wicked little sinners. When I was once diagnosed with carpel tunnel syndrome in my left hand while pregnant with my 5th child, my husband suggested to me that maybe God was trying to tell me something, that this was happening to me because I was in the wrong doctrine! I must add I was also born with no right hand due to amniotic banding, so you can imagine how this made me feel. He also suggested that my father wasn't a Christian because maybe God didn't choose him.
My dad had grown up in a reformed church & Sunday school as a boy & once he left home he never went back to church.
God led me to write him a letter to him about a month before he died explaining the story of the Lost Sheep & that he was the like lost sheep & the Lord left the 99 to find him. My dad came to the Lord about 2 weeks before he had a heart attack & died.
I cannot explain all the coldness & pain I have suffered under a Calvinist church. My youngest married daughter still suffers from anxiety that she's going to hell despite her being a strong born again Christian. The Calvinist preaching she was under only preached on sin , hell & Gods hate of sinners. She is now seeing a Christian psychologist & is listening to Leighton Flowers, you, Idol Killer & Mike Winger, she still is on a long road of recovery.
Please Please call out the heresy of the doctrine of Calvinism & be more aware of the damage it causes to Christians & non Christians alike.
I think Calvin and Calvinism gets too much credit. What I believe and know about Eternal Creator God was mercifully given to me through the Saving faith I received from Him, when I went from death unto life. I know Eternal God as my Sovereign Creator, my Savior, and the appointor of the date and time I will leave this life to be with Him eternally. Are there Calvinist elements in my views of the absolute Sovereignty of Eternal God in my life - from my creation - to my Salvation - to this time of my life of nearly 83 yrs - perhaps. But does it matter? What matters most is the awesome Sovereignty of Eternal God that envelopes me, even as I exercise limited freewill in my daily life, while always overshadowed by His Sovereign will.
I appreciate your testimony, and respect it. But, how are you defining 'sovereign will'? And, do you know for sure you have received the "Gift of Perseverance"?
R. C. Sproul confessed he didn't know, and asked people to pray he'd continue in the faith... as if their prayers might help.🤔 Even though, according to his own doctrine of 'no rogue molecules', i.e., God's meticulous determination of all things from before the foundation of the world, (especially 'election to salvation'), his eternal destiny was unchangeably predetermined before he even existed. God could not be said to be 'responding' to prayers about his salvation.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT..I was created by God and it was His Sovereign decision to do so - not mine. He has been a faithful God to me, long before I recognized Him as my Sovereign Savior and King of my life. Looking back over the nearly 83 yrs of my life, I can see He surrounded me with the same 'hedge' he surrounded His servant Job. Not only did He surround me, but also my enslaved Ancestors who He enabled to survive the horrors of rapes, brandings, lynchings, dehuminizations, Jim Crowisms, etc. Had He not always been making 'a way out of no way' for my Ancestors and me, I would not be here today able to write on this blog. If there is any greater evidence to, and example of, the awesome Sovereignty of Eternal God along with the gift of Perseverance He has given me and my Ancestors, I cant imagine what it is or could be. I hope I have answered your question as to what I mean by Eternal God's Sovereignty and Sovereign will, in every sense of these terms.
As asked by another person please what do you mean by sovereign?
@@lbamusic The words you used still didn't address how you are trying to use 'sovereignty'. Calvinists employ the word, but not in it's proper definitive meaning. By definition, a 'sovereign' power, (in this instance 'God'), can do whatever he chooses, but is no obligated to anything. He is not required to control anything simply because he could if he chose to. Are you saying that God created and, ordained and predestined Hitler to do exactly what he did and that the same holds true for Jeffery Dahmer's appetite, and the murders of children he committed? It's a fare question. Actually, all the history aside, and with respect to your ancestors, these things do not 'prove' God's sovereign "meticulous determination" of anything. They can represent his ability to use circumstances to bring about something he desires. Enduring life's hardships is admirable, but it doesn't confirm the "Gift of Perseverance" Calvinism requires is necessary for salvation as referenced by Calvinism's doctrines of TULIP. And, I'm sure you're not suggesting all your ancestors were elected "to be" saved in eternity by God. That would be quite remarkable.
@@gingernutpreacher That's the real question. The word sounds really reverent, but it's being misused simply because it does sound so profound.
I did not make myself clear. Sorry.
God chose the Jews to bring forth the Saviour. When Jesus was on earth He came for the lost children of Israel. When He sent out the He told them to not go to the gentiles but t0 the Jews.
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Rom 10:5-6
When He save the Syrophoenician woman He plainly called gentiles dogs.
He has chosen Israel to bring the Saviour and to spread the gospel during the trib. (Rev 7; 14).
I love James and everyone else. I have no respect for him as an intentional teacher of falsity. Flowers has shown how he is intentionally deceiving his own audience of which I am a former whose seen past him.
I'm curious how you believe Flowers is intentionally deceiving his audience. What exactly is he deceiving his audience about?
I bet he does a response video gaslighting you, unfortunately
We will see…
How are you understanding the word “gaslighting”?
@@GoodBerean I think it's a safe bet. It's like someone trying to apologize who says "I'm sorry you were offended", instead of saying "I'm sorry I offended you".
@@levifox2818Good point! I was thinking this whole time that it was more defined as someone who complains/insults/has a one-way conversation without letting the other person respond. After looking at the definition, I wasn’t looking at it in a “psychological manipulation” way, more like he’s probably going to go on his broadcast and say something and then disable the comments
@@gdmead
Okay that’s fair. Thanks for the clarification. In fairness to Dr. White, he always has comments turned off because they are often hateful and misinformative (which is true regardless of the channel you go to)-and as he says, he doesn’t have the patience for them.
And now, for 5 reasons why you disrespect James White.
Yes James has fancy accolades next to his name. Just because James has gotten a doctorate in Bible twisting and demonic manipulation tactics, that doesn’t mean God is requiring me to be impressed with that. 🤷♀️
Did Jesus call the religious leaders by their fancy titles? No, He referred to them as brood of vipers, sons of Satan, and hypocrites. I imagine the only time Jesus would call them by any reverent or respectable title would be as a form of irony.
Actually james recieved his doctorate of "inflated sense of importance studies" from a non accredited online unknown seminary.👍👍
🎯LOL... got a little vinegar in your coffee this morning? 😊
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT hehe hi my friend! ☺️🙏🏻
@@Loves2HugItOut 🤠🤠
Jason....check your messages...... let's talk and end the Calvinist Arminian debate, once and forever
Grow some balls brother. Just say the truth and stop trying to be winsom. The truth sometimes offends people. Everyone can see that James White is a completely dishonest person that is full of pride and had no interest in honest debate. All he does is make personal attacks and other deceptive tactics.
Could you point to the book, chapter, and verse for your advice? Or is it more of an emotional plea?
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🙏🏽
In my humble opinion, someone that loves Calvinism as much as JW does has a heart problem
Show me where Jesus extended any GRACE to wolves. …I’ll wait.
I do think that Jesus extended grace to even the wolves because He gave them opportunities to repent
@@Loves2HugItOut. In that sense, yes. 2Peter 2:1 He died for them, but that’s it.
@@johndisalvo6283 yes he died for them but in many ways they were given opportunities for repentance. That is the Lords grace. He doesn’t delight in the death of the wicked. We know that nicodemus and Paul responded and I’m sure some others, but not many.
@@Loves2HugItOut a wolf doesn’t repent. That’s why he’s a wolf.
@aletheia8054 He foreknows wolves. He foreknows they will be wolves until the day they die. Thank God we have a loving God whose foreknowledge can not be wrong. Anything else would be disastrous.
the man chose not to accept leighton’s gift of the banjo that was meant in good will. he does not respect leighton and he does not respect you. he sees you as inferior. and videos like this will only pander to his ego, makes him feel justified in his behavior, and make him respect you even less. he know’s he’s being dishonest and by his perspective, if you cannot see that and are not working to call him on that, why would he ever believe what you see in scripture? he does not and will not respect you. turning a blind eye in kindness will never work to reach him. that is weakness and permission to him. respect is the only path, here.
call the man’s behavior and doctrine out for what it is. force his respect.
Was it Jesus who said turn the other cheek?
@@levifox2818 was it Jesus who flipped tables over in the marketplace?
some people do not respond to grace, or “salt’s because they see it as weakness. you must earn their respect first. then once you have earned their respect through strength, they will receive your grace as grace and not weakness.
mere grace does not work in prisons. and white’s mentality is extremely similar in that way. White makes this clear by the way he discredits his opponents. “this” is why my opponent is wrong. not because his argument is wrong but because the opponent is not “qualified.” for some people you have to earn the right to be heard. they work on respect. that’s why white is so high in himself with all of his accomplishments. and if you are not higher than him in his opinion, he will not respect nor hear you in whatever you have to say. no matter how right you are because respect, to him, comes first. just like in a prison.
@@scottibreiding
Did Jesus say he turned the tables to earn people’s respect?
@@levifox2818 what did Jesus say when He overturned the tables? He called out the irreverence of the money changers and demanded respect for His Father’s house.
He called the pharisees a brood of vipers. he did not comment on how quick witted they were.
try your philosophy in jail and RIP the seventh planet. White is a respecter of persons. if you want to communicate clearly with someone, you show them kindness by entering their world and speaking to them in terms they understand. sometimes that means flipping tables and calling vipers out for what they are before extending grace to them. otherwise is is received as weakness rather than meekness.
@@scottibreiding
Jesus never said we are in charge of how people interpret our actions. I agree there is a time to be more stern, but we need less of that right now, not more. Christ’s default rule was clear-and the example he gave: “When [Christ] was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.”
I’m not interested in “my philosophy” or how well it works in prison. I’m interested in following Christ’s instruction and example and trusting God to handle people as he wills.
You should lay down these lordship salvation notions. You're better than that.
Would you say the same of Paul? “…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”-(Romans 10:9).
@@levifox2818 At least, I would not quote Paul out of context.
@@minorsingingairhead
I’m interested. How does the context change the meaning of this verse?
Wait a second, why did you quote Romans 10:9 anyway? What is your point?
@@minorsingingairhead
Paul ties confessing Jesus is Lord (as opposed to Cesar is Lord) directly to salvation, parallel with believing Jesus was raised.
This is my expreiance so yes it's subjective. fellowship with calvanist's is hard unedifing and unproductive. When looking to do out reach with Mormons there out each plan was to use tulip and to start with total depravity then I would have LDS saying how can my parent's give good gifts. They start arguments the proof text many taken out of context or with isegesis applied clearly they have got there interptaion from a James white Luther ect and no historical or cultural back ground applied. There often slanderous think they have the spirit of diserment and aplly motives to genuine qrestions there leadership drink smoke and get tattoed are they saved YES salvation is all jesus but I can't fellowship with them my old church did work with exofenders that came to jesus and there is no way you could have a calvanist using there libity around them it would cause them to fall So my conclusion is we should warn others that there fatlisium will cause pain in bad fruit
You said Dr. White is "trying to learn" your systematic theology. That's really, really funny.
James White doesn't need to "learn" your Self Deterministic doctrine which worships an imaginary autonomous free will. It's the oldest doctrine in history, and revealed in Cain.
If we're made in the image of God and Satan is not how is it that Satan had free will to reject God yet human beings do not?
@@SomethingStacy Did Adam & Eve become more like God after their fall?