My Ops Spec do not allow us to takeoff VFR from airports with operating ATC. I have never seen it happen. On flights that short I always wonder 'Should I bring the gear up?'
The mental image of a jet casually strolling over to the BQE (Brooklyn Queens express for you non New York familiar) and then going up the highway to LGA.. hahaha
That one asshole behind him honks the horn one too many times so he hits the throttle and blows like 20 cars off the road. "Do you know why I pulled you over?" ... Can I say no?
Hi, my name is Andrew and I have to thank you! With your simple trick I saved 10Bucks worth of paper *shows some random banking app on phone with „+120$“* I can’t believe that worked! *drives off with rental ferrari*
We used to do a 9nm flight in a Brasilia from an airport with runway 19/1... 9nm to an airport that was also 19/1. We would brief takeoff and landing while we taxied. We'd get a takeoff clearance from the departure airport and then we'll call the other airport and get a landing clearance while we were still on the ground. Instead of, "Acceleration v2+20 flaps up", we called, "Acceleration v2+20 landing checks."
Usually those flights are done later in the evening and it's always interesting when it's the other way around since the flight might be routed out toward Eastern Long Island to enter the landing pattern. Its not uncommon for a flight to be repositioned from/ to the NYC airports, some repositions into EWR heads as far south as PHL to enter the EWR pattern
@@DannyBeeVegas yep, Ive seen and listened to the atc as they spin around, they tend to head down to Robbinsville, sometimes as far as Philly depending on traffic at Trenton Mercer, or Fort Dix. As well as the numerous small county airports. Always an interesting site on a clear day watching a jet at a relative low altitude turn around.
When I was flying part 135 we regularly made a reposition flight between two airports that were only six miles apart. They also had pretty similar runways. We would get our Landing clearance from the tower at the departure Airport by them calling the tower at the other airport on the phone. I would literally be cleared to land and take off at the same time. The running joke was, "Positive rate, gear down, landing checks."
It's about an hour. It is somewhat difficult to get your plane onto the subway at rush hour, though, so it's easier to just fly it. Lot of weird looks when you and your copilot are just trying to shove it through the door. Everyone has to scramble to move their luggage out of the way. They try to close the door on you. It's a disaster. 0/10 would not recommend.
I can hear AirforceProud now... "Endeavor 5578, winds 270 @ 11, caution wake turbulence from the departing hot air balloon, RWY 22R, cleared for take off".
@@jmullentech Have you seen the one with the "new controller" who won't clear him into Vegas? I love that one. This is pretty much the same level of confusion.
Imagine Steve handling this: "I don't know who you are, I don't know where you are. Just go where you want, as long as you make LGA by nightfall they'll be happy."
Pilot: Can we just go VFR? ATC: You're flying in one of the busiest airspaces in the world just to go to LaGuardia, no you can- Pilot: *WE'LL DO IT LIVE!*
"This is your captain speaking, Today's flight will be approximately 5 minutes, with a cruising altitude of 3,500 feet. Meal service will be whatever you bought at the terminal, and don't expect any drinks..."
I actually had a captain say something similar to that a long time ago. It was a 6-minute flight from Campbell River to Comox, I believe, and he came on the mic saying something like "Our expected flight time today is six minutes, and our cruising altitude is...well...we won't actually have one because we're taking off and then we're landing. Heck, we're not even going to break cloud cover!" I don't remember what else he said, but it was a hilarious few minutes, at any rate.
@@RobinHood70 I've had something similar happen. I was flying from my local airport to Chicago, but my flight got canceled (forget why this was 10 years ago), so they rerouted us to their nearby hub airport for a connector to Chicago which was like a 30min flight from my home airport. Pilot came on and said "we know none of you are actually doing this flight to Washington to go to Washington, so I hope you all make your connectors and have a great trip to where you're going!" That drew a nice laugh from everyone.
I used to fly regularly with United from Washington Dullas to Johnstown PA, the flight stops in Altoona, so Altoona to Johnstown is a max of 9 minutes but many time it was 7 minutes, no drinks. No announcement and no passengers sometime :) ( Fleecing of America, it is government subsidized) oh they did retract the wheels.
There's actually an even shorter repo that occurs occasionally - DFW - DAL or vice versa. Usually, its a corporate aircraft doing the move, but when the conditions are right, they literally take off on runway 13L at DFW and land 13L or 32R at DAL - a total flight time of 3 minutes in a jet. Most crews don't even pull up the gear or flaps. It's takeoff, approach checklist, configure for landing, landing checklist, land. They definitely spend more time taxiing than flying.
I've done even shorter doing a repo from ADS to DAL. Also talked to a flexjet pilot who did it once and as soon as he took off from ADS on 15 the Addison controller cleared him to land at DAL 13L.
Kyle Nakamura VFR has higher weather minimums. Most airline route lengths would make it inefficient to fly and dodge IMC. Airlines also fly in class A airspace which requires an IFR flight plan so unless they’re flying below the class A they’ll need an IFR flight plan anyways.
Kyle Nakamura theoretically if you had the money to rent one of those planes and also had all the applicable type ratings or endorsements, then yeah you could fly VFR in them. Most pilots get their instrument rating before their multi rating though, so it’s not as big of a factor. It’s more about the $$$ lol
@@kylenakamura4353 I believe that if you have passengers as an airline, you have to fly IFR. Here, it's was just repositioning, so no passengers. Hence, they were able to fly VFR.
@@petervaicels8578 it means visual flight rules and generally big planes fly ifr (instrument flight rules) not vfr. Essentially it just means you need to be able to maintain certain visual minimums. Basically not flying in clouds.
@@gobarn1877 Which going from JFK to LGA if its clear there its gonna be clear at LGA. However this is not the easiest airport for VFR cause of where some of the runways are
I flew into and out of JFK in a tiny little plane VFR (Piper Arrow). All the local pilots told me it wasn't allowed, but JFK operates under the same rules as everyone else, so I thought it was worth a try! JFK weren't surprised at all - they really liked it, and apologised that they had to charge me a landing fee ($15). Presumably their surprise in this case is due to the aircraft being operated by an airline, but VFR was a smart move in this situation! If I have no flightplan filed, I usually ensure it's not going to be too busy with planned arrivals at the airport, and just suffix the word 'VFR' to my initial call-up at bigger airports (London Gatwick, Orlando International etc) to save them hunting for my flightplan/strip.
I guess this was a long time ago. You can certainly land at JFK, but the fees (as of today) are: Landing - minimum fee: $50 Landing - additional fee between 3PM - 10PM: $100 Departure: $6.95 per 1,000lbs Departure minimum fee: $25 Departure - additional fee between 3PM - 10PM: $100 Parking (up to 8 hours): $45 You're looking at $120 minimum just to the NYC Port Authority, or $320 if you're not an early bird. This is before and handling fees from the FBO, and there is only one FBO, Sheltair. Sheltair's handling fees for a small single engine piston plane start at $50, although if you pump enough of their $9/gallon fuel they might waive that for you. Technically any certificated aircraft can land at any public use airport, which does include JFK, LaGuardia, O'Hare, Atlanta, etc. They control GA traffic by making it prohibitively expensive to land there just for fun. Teterboro is the go-to for private planes. It's still not cheap, and your Piper may look a little out of place next to a Boeing Business Jet or a Gulfstream, but it's better than JFK/LGA.
It was during Storm Sandy (made the landing a little interesting!), and I purposely chose the dead of night, to avoid stressing a busy system. They knew then that the fees were going to be artificially raised in the near future, and were very unhappy about it - for some reason they loved having such a small (and boring!) plane fly in, thought it was a great laugh, and were very encouraging! One of the best things about large US airports is their delight in mixing small/slow aircraft between airliners safely without disruption - they seem to regard it as a mark of being an excellent air traffic controller, rather than as a chore/annoyance!
I recall at a regional French airport I was flying a C310 back to UK. There were about 10 pilots, all in smart uniforms, mainly flying small corporate jets filing flight plans at the desk. They were all looking pretty glum - apparently there was a 90 minute + delay for departure. In due course I (in jeans and a T-shirt) handed across my flight plan and was told I could go to the aircraft immediately, no delay. I heard one of the pilots ask why I had no delay while they all had to wait well over an hour. "Because he is VFR" was the reply. Soon I was surrounded by 10 pilots all asking if they could copy my VFR departure route (it was a published route requiring flying a heading to a river, then along the river to a landmark, then to another landmark before clearing the ATZ).
I was flying a C-172 London to Khartoum last year and had to go to the briefing room in Athens to manually file my flight plan. Because I’d been in the plane ready to start up for the flight to Crete, I was in my life jacket. Was so funny walking past many Aegean Airlines crews all wearing sunglasses indoors etc. They definitely noticed. Wearing a life jacket in front of a load of airline pilots is a good flex
@@efari Well the first point is for the chuckles. Secondly, the guy flying VFR port to port LGA is less of a threat than the guy with paperwork flying LAX with a full tank of gas. Remember, if you want to fuck with someone visiting NYC point out that terrorists prefer a full tank of gas and show them videos of rats swimming up sewer pipes into toilets.
I was flying a re-positioning flight 24 years ago, Jfk-lga in a 727-200. It was straight out and straight in, at 0700 am. Off to on was 7 minutes. I told engineer and copilot, “we’ll raise the landing gear, keep the slats and flaps out, and don’t flip any switches on the f/e panel”. Took off, did after takeoff checklist then before landing checklist, and landed. When at the gate in lga, the engineer and copilots’ brains were still at JFK😳. It was a fun flight, for sure👍🏻
I'd like to become a pilot, and thinking about it, I realized only retracting the gear makes sense as it's solely detrimental to safe flight when in the air.
@@joshuam20 "5578, roger... Taxi via Bravo and hold short of November - give way to the school bus carrying children on the way back from the museum on your left. Once clear, proceed down the road and give way to traffic. Actually, can you pick up the LGA tower a round of starbucks as you pass down 3rd?" "Affirm"
Usually a repositioning flight under VFR would be done with the aircraft registration, not an airline callsign. Could be one of the reasons for the confusion.
Yeah this is the second time I've watched this and just thought about this. I think he could go by callsign if he made a VFR flight plan, but we know he didn't.
About 40 years ago, I once really confused a controller, by asking to fly from one side of CLE to the other. It was a very long taxi, and the taxiway used to be a runway, so we thought why drive there when we can fly? The controller had nothing going on at the time, and reluctantly approved it. Flight time 1 minute, at 50’ agl.
Cops wouldn't like the idea of a plane on the street. The wingspan us too big and would take out anything it hits, signs, traffic signals utility poles.
This sort of thing was once more common - back in the 70’s and even in the early 2000’s at AA we had them weekly. The actual flight took around 20-30 minutes off to on, but I once flew a 727 from LGA to JFK in under 4 minutes. Took off on 22 and landed 13L at JFK. Maybe a record in a transport category airplane. Takeoffs on 22 at LGA required Chief Pilot approval back then at AA due to noise over Queens.
3:30 That would have been a weird experience for anyone out on the northern end of Sandy Hook, NJ. Small GA aircraft are commonly seen there at low altitude, but definitely not any airliners.
@@americanswan You'll always be vectored in Class Bravo whether VFR or IFR unless they tell you to follow a VFR transition. This was essentially IFR but without the paperwork
Thank you all for the explanation of a Repo Flight. First time I have heard of this. I was thinking maybe it was a repossessed plane like a repo man just gets in and gets the hell out of there :) No IFR Flight Plan ok I'll go VFR!
I've seen LGA-JFK or JFK-LGA flights sometimes, and yes just for repositioning for other flights. I remember I was so confused when I saw a LGA to JFK flight for the first time :)
Usually those flights are done later in the evening and it's always interesting when it's the other way around since the flight might be routed out toward Eastern Long Island to enter the landing pattern. Its not uncommon for a flight to be repositioned from/ to the NYC airports, some repositions into EWR heads as far south as PHL. These repositions can take up to an hour if they have to enter the pattern far away (50-80 miles or more). You might even see HPN to JFK or vice versa with JetBlue flights.
I live about 9 miles from LGA right under the approach for runway 22. TBH I was really confused the first time I saw a plane flying at 2k feet only to see it was flying to JFK
Back in the 90s when I worked at United they had a LAX To San Diego flight that was a 757 that was a scheduled reposition flight and it always had like 15 people on it.
The weirdest flight Ive seen so far (on my flight radar app) is Oakland to SJC, which are 40 miles apart. It was a fedex flight. But its flight path looked similar to this one (3 sided square), it first had to go straight west before turning south.
Another caveat to why this is unusual (but ok): Normally, all jet and turboprop aircraft fly above 18,000 ft, which is class A airspace and is IFR only (and must be flown under IFR flight plan). However, since this plane is basically going across town, 3000ft is about right for that to immediately setup for a visual approach into LGA. As others have said/joked, it barely (and possibly not) even make sense to raise the landing gear. So, on a clear day, why not VFR? They're still under radar service traffic separation in class B. They're just not used to seeing scheduled carriers (or probably other aircraft for that matter) flying VFR out of JFK. A smaller class C/D airport gets much more mixed (IFR/VFR) traffic.
Shubham Sultania VFR Visual flight rules. Being able to fly a plane by seeing the outside world versus IFR instrument flight rules, fly a plane in the dark for example by using cockpit instruments.
@@s2sultania VFR is an abbreviation that stands for "visual flight rules". It is one of the 2 forms of navigation used by aircraft. The other is IFR or "instrument flight rules". During IFR flight, navigation of the aircraft and separation from other planes are directed by people on the ground using radar and other devices. Pitch, roll, yaw, altitude, and direction control may be performed using only the aircraft's onboard instruments. (Hence "instrument" flight rules) The pilot is usually "vectored" along a pre determined path. During VFR flight, the aircrafts navigation is at pilots discretion,(within a set of rules) and physical separation between other aircraft is the pilots duty using see-and-avoid out the window. There are exceptions, such as entering controlled airspace around a busy airport. That requires prior permission, (even for VFR pilots) and pilots are required to follow that controller's directions while in controlled airspace. Most larger aircraft fly faster and or higher than would be safe or legal under VFR rules. Also airlines may have policies that require all flights with passengers fly IFR even if it is a pretty day. Another huge consideration is the sequencing of aircraft into and out of busy airports. If a bunch of VFR airliners arrived unexpectedly all at once, the local controllers would be overwhelmed, so they sequence them. There are times when VFR flight is illegal. Flight above 18,000ft is restricted to IFR under most circumstances. Other conditions such as foggy weather, or flying into clouds, or flying in any situation that obscures your view are illegal because the pilot has to maintain visual separation with other aircraft, and cell phone antennas etc using "see and avoid". It was atypical for the airline pilot in this flight to be VFR. That was the source of the controllers' confusion.
It actually used to be quite common. I was flying for Commuter Airlines, not making the name up, and during the PATCO strike in 1981. We did that all the time, in fact New York Air used to fly between NY and Boston and Washington VFR low level when able. These controllers probably weren't even born then tho.
The closet thing I've experienced was from Anchorage to Fairbanks Alaska. About a 40 minute flight. They climb and once the plane reaches cruising altitude they immediately start their decent.
I did this irl, but with uber eats instead of a plane. We lived across the street from a KFC. I mean IN FRONT OF OUR APARTMENT BUILDING. But we got some crazy discount from uber eats for KFC, so we ordered. The walk from inside of the KFC was about the same as to the carpark where the uber had his moped. It took 25 minutes to arrive because the poor fella was so confused.
Strange things always happen in the NYC airports. I flew to Charlotte from JFK one morning as the only passenger. Seems that fog the night before caused two aircraft to JFK instead of one of them to LGA. So they need both in Charlotte, so I flew by myself in the cabin. The other passenger flew on the other plane.
Prior to 9/11 there were VFR revenue flights as well. On regional routes, Allegheny, Piedmont, Eagle and Atlantic Coast Airlines would cancel IFR if the weather was VFR from time to time.
There are some familiar flights in Taiwan They flight from Taoyuan Airport to Songshan Airport The distance between these two airports is only 35km(about 22miles) And the flights are [routine flights]
The most fun flight I ever had was from Myrtle Beach, SC to Wilmington, NC. Their flight from Charlotte, NC was cancelled to MYR. We had enough room on our plane from CLT to ILM so we took the passengers to MYR first. We dropped them off and then went onto ILM...probably 60 miles as the crow flies. I'm not very aeronautical but our altitude was very low and you could really tell our speed over ground. I knew all the landmarks we were passing and as soon as we were up, we were coming back down.
AADFWspotters They would still need some sort of clearance because they would be in class B the entire time. And in constant radio contact because of the large number of departures and arrivals between the 2 airports.
AADFWspotters2 Oh? So we’ll just dismiss fairly regular fatal accidents that happen here with VFR fliers? The helo and GA traffic take up the lower altitudes, with the hudson corridor being uncontrolled. They fly at low speeds. The multiple airport approaches and departures slot just above that. Above them are numerous northeast corridor flights that are plowing non-stop. Then we add restricted air space and a plethora of high rise buildings. At 200mph+ this all becomes obstacles to aviation. There’s a very good reason why no one flies VFR out of LGA or JFK. Even Cessnas do IFR here.
The funnier part is knowing exactly what pilots those were cuz you’ve worked with them before and knowing how hard they were laughing off the radio at how crazy the whole thing is.
5578: We'd like to fly the Hudson River Corridor while we're VFR. Approach: Ugh, OK I guess. Descend VFR, passing through one thousand three hundred, frequency change approved. Contact approach on 127.95 at the George Washington Bridge for LGA.
thefactorypilot145 Why? It is still in a radar environment. You are still being vectored. The only difference is VFR altitude and cloud clearances. If it was a nice VFR day, then why not? Everyone knew they were coming...
I thought cloud clearances were to do with instrument rating of the pilot and not the type of flight. Can you fly "VFR" into a cloud and ask for flight following ?
@@narendranbhaskar Absolutely not! VFR has nothing to do with pilot rating except that only a pilot with an instrument rating can file an IFR flight plan.
@@narendranbhaskar Flight following is only a VFR clearance. You are still responsible for cloud clearances while getting flight following. This flight was being radar vectored in a radar environment on a VFR flight plan. They were not receiving flight following in a non-radar environment.
Scott Butterworth why? Because nobody knows what you’re doing in a very busy airspace. I did a repo once between two busy airports close to each other like this under VFR and it was a disaster. I wasn’t the CA tho. Never doing that again. Always file IFR because chances are all the controllers will not be on the same page as far as your flight number and you’ll get a lot of confused controllers. Last thing you want is confused controllers in a busy airspace with southwest planes and Cessnas trying to run into you.
Endeavor is a Delta subsidiary, one of those Delta Connection carriers. Delta has hubs in JFK and LGA. It’s very common that this would happen, especially if there was a diversion to JFK due to the curfew in LGA. LGA uses regional aircraft for its short haul flights around the Northeast and Canada.
Could flying an airliner VFR like that violate their OpsSpecs and result in trouble for the pilots with their company or chief pilot? It doesn’t seem illegal or unsafe - just unusual for an air carrier even if they are doing this flight Part 91.
With all the honesty to US ATC, are their systems garbage or what? Flight Plan disappeared even with PDC, GND ATC told them they have to coordinate but it seemed that Departure had no clue what's going on, they've been asked 3 times is it really VFR, they already acknowledged you... I don't blame the people, I understand they might not believe what they see, I don't know how is it done backstage in US (I'm more familiar with European ATFM), but it quite often on vids here seems they have poor interchanging the messages. Maybe it's because of the rush, or systems limitations. Would be nice to hear from somebody who actually knows how it goes.
No, US systems are not "garbage." I'm a current controller and worked in automation briefly so my guess is the airline filed an (IFR) flight plan which goes to the overlying center (and the system that handles PDC's), which then forwards it to the appropriate tower. Since it was completely within the same TRACON though, it's handled differently (internal flight data, not through the center's computers). That's why they were given the 0332 code (internal TRACON codes, not part of the national system). Ground and local would have been coordinating with their flight data, not departure control regarding putting in a local flight plan and getting a code. Also the pilot was confused because they had filed an IFR and gotten a PDC (IFR clearance) then out of the blue said they were VFR which adds to the controller workload (and is something very unusual for an airliner to fly on a VFR plan). Departure also knew exactly what they were doing, unlike your characterization. They were only confirming something that was highly unusual. In the U.S., controllers are taught to confirm and question anything unusual, because that's how errors and accidents can occur.
@@racerboom3389 I don't know the details here, but for example there's a limit on how long a flight plan will stay in the system past the proposed departure time. It's pretty normal.
@@kewkabe Flight plan would be active for 2 hours after receiving clearance before being dropped. If they got their PDC 30 minutes before, the plan should have still been active.
@@kewkabe ok, so it's slightly different. When I heard "coordinate" in most European countries the controller assistant (as there are always two guys on the position, executive and assist) would physically make a call to the station whereas the coordination is needed, so they wouldn't get into only on the system indication but they'd hear that from a "human", that's why you wouldn't be asked again and again here :D. Good to know how's it working on other side of the lake. Thanks!
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Repo flight from JFK to LGA? Not too rare, is it?
This always happens
Apparently having big planes flying VFR is not that common there :)
Not rare at all - my company does it almost once a week.
It’s the fact that it was done under VFR.
My Ops Spec do not allow us to takeoff VFR from airports with operating ATC. I have never seen it happen. On flights that short I always wonder 'Should I bring the gear up?'
JFK: refile your flight plan
Pilot: I'M GOING ACROSS THE STREET GOD DAMNIT
I just had this picture of a 747 stuck in traffic on I91 and screaming out the window at other drivers.
Laughing far too hard at this.
man i would hate just move to the next gate lol
The mental image of a jet casually strolling over to the BQE (Brooklyn Queens express for you non New York familiar) and then going up the highway to LGA.. hahaha
That one asshole behind him honks the horn one too many times so he hits the throttle and blows like 20 cars off the road.
"Do you know why I pulled you over?"
...
Can I say no?
Air traffic controllers hate this one simple trick that saves you hours of paperwork.
@@thert.hon.thelordnicholson7261 lol
@@thert.hon.thelordnicholson7261 Wait what. Can you explain further?
@@jankeessteenbergen It's a parody of clickbait ads
@@CODMarioWarfare lol how did I miss that ty
Hi, my name is Andrew and I have to thank you! With your simple trick I saved 10Bucks worth of paper
*shows some random banking app on phone with „+120$“*
I can’t believe that worked!
*drives off with rental ferrari*
"Endeavor 5578, you are cleared to taxi via Van Wyck Expessway North to Grand Central Pkwy West. Follow the Yellow Cab".
I think this is the best comment, against some tough competition, well done!
My god, I laughed my ass off just by imagining this
ha ha im dead
"Endeavor 5578 has Yankee....stadium."
This sounds like something Kennedy Steve would say.
They probably spent a longer time taxiing than the actual flight.
Joseph Dale Yeah, but it’s a repositioning flight.
We used to do a 9nm flight in a Brasilia from an airport with runway 19/1... 9nm to an airport that was also 19/1.
We would brief takeoff and landing while we taxied. We'd get a takeoff clearance from the departure airport and then we'll call the other airport and get a landing clearance while we were still on the ground.
Instead of, "Acceleration v2+20 flaps up", we called, "Acceleration v2+20 landing checks."
Usually those flights are done later in the evening and it's always interesting when it's the other way around since the flight might be routed out toward Eastern Long Island to enter the landing pattern. Its not uncommon for a flight to be repositioned from/ to the NYC airports, some repositions into EWR heads as far south as PHL to enter the EWR pattern
@@DannyBeeVegas yep, Ive seen and listened to the atc as they spin around, they tend to head down to Robbinsville, sometimes as far as Philly depending on traffic at Trenton Mercer, or Fort Dix. As well as the numerous small county airports. Always an interesting site on a clear day watching a jet at a relative low altitude turn around.
Having left out of JFK numerous times, this is painfully true.
Pilot 1: "positive rate, gear up."
Pilot 2: "Nahhh lmao. Just leave er down"
T Abel hahaha! Before they reach TOC its time for TOD already
Lol same 😂
ENVD to ENSS flaps are not retracted.
Best comment in this video
When I was flying part 135 we regularly made a reposition flight between two airports that were only six miles apart. They also had pretty similar runways. We would get our Landing clearance from the tower at the departure Airport by them calling the tower at the other airport on the phone. I would literally be cleared to land and take off at the same time.
The running joke was, "Positive rate, gear down, landing checks."
“Youre cleared for takeoff”
45 seconds later
“Youre cleared for landing”
Nope: "You're cleared for landing... Wind 270 at 11, runway 22R, cleared for takeoff"
That awkward moment when a subway train gets you from point A to point B faster then an airplane
I don't know man, getting from Queens to BK is pretty shit...but it's only $2.75, so just a tad bit cheaper then flying there ;)
It's about an hour. It is somewhat difficult to get your plane onto the subway at rush hour, though, so it's easier to just fly it. Lot of weird looks when you and your copilot are just trying to shove it through the door. Everyone has to scramble to move their luggage out of the way. They try to close the door on you. It's a disaster. 0/10 would not recommend.
Can’t fit an airplane on a subway
It was a reposition flight. Probably no passengers.
...except there is no subway linkage between JFK and LGA (never mind that neither airport is served at all by a direct subway)
This is straight out of a FSX Steam multiplayer session
I can hear AirforceProud now... "Endeavor 5578, winds 270 @ 11, caution wake turbulence from the departing hot air balloon, RWY 22R, cleared for take off".
Can't be. There is no hot air balloon doing 420 knots
@@jmullentech Have you seen the one with the "new controller" who won't clear him into Vegas? I love that one. This is pretty much the same level of confusion.
@@RubberDucky087 thats the best one
Endeavor, stand by, space shuttle on final.
JFK DEP: Endeavor 5578, what’s your flight level?
Endeavor 5578: I’m at 3rd & Main...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I laughed harder at this than thr video
Sat here cackling in my car in parking lot at this one...
@Calefar Dimani Not cool.
@Calefar Dimani I laughed too hard at this
Imagine Steve handling this: "I don't know who you are, I don't know where you are. Just go where you want, as long as you make LGA by nightfall they'll be happy."
His name is Kennedy Steve. Please correct.
@@beyondinsanitybr What if I was talking about Schipol Steve?
@@Quasihamster That's a character too!
Scuba Steve?
I think everyone knew which Steve he was talking about considering we're talking about a JFK departure.
Pilot: Can we just go VFR?
ATC: You're flying in one of the busiest airspaces in the world just to go to LaGuardia, no you can-
Pilot: *WE'LL DO IT LIVE!*
What a reference!
First Officer O'Reilly
@@mynickels reference to what?
@@NoNameAtAll2 look up “Bill O’Reilly We’ll do it live”
Didn't think I'd see you here
If I'd have a billion dollars I'd setup a flight company that would just fly some weird connections just to confuse the controllers.
Aquaz SFO to OAK
Ohare to midway
Tpa-Pie
Boeing Field to Sea-Tac
Ryland Spencer Everett-SeaTac
"This is your captain speaking,
Today's flight will be approximately 5 minutes, with a cruising altitude of 3,500 feet. Meal service will be whatever you bought at the terminal, and don't expect any drinks..."
I actually had a captain say something similar to that a long time ago. It was a 6-minute flight from Campbell River to Comox, I believe, and he came on the mic saying something like "Our expected flight time today is six minutes, and our cruising altitude is...well...we won't actually have one because we're taking off and then we're landing. Heck, we're not even going to break cloud cover!" I don't remember what else he said, but it was a hilarious few minutes, at any rate.
@@RobinHood70
I've had something similar happen. I was flying from my local airport to Chicago, but my flight got canceled (forget why this was 10 years ago), so they rerouted us to their nearby hub airport for a connector to Chicago which was like a 30min flight from my home airport. Pilot came on and said "we know none of you are actually doing this flight to Washington to go to Washington, so I hope you all make your connectors and have a great trip to where you're going!" That drew a nice laugh from everyone.
@@RobinHood70 shortest flight I ever took was vancouver to victoria... it's not even a hop. yvr -> yyj
I used to fly regularly with United from Washington Dullas to Johnstown PA, the flight stops in Altoona, so Altoona to Johnstown is a max of 9 minutes but many time it was 7 minutes, no drinks. No announcement and no passengers sometime :) ( Fleecing of America, it is government subsidized) oh they did retract the wheels.
Lmao, this comment made me spit water. Thumbs up for you.
There's actually an even shorter repo that occurs occasionally - DFW - DAL or vice versa. Usually, its a corporate aircraft doing the move, but when the conditions are right, they literally take off on runway 13L at DFW and land 13L or 32R at DAL - a total flight time of 3 minutes in a jet. Most crews don't even pull up the gear or flaps. It's takeoff, approach checklist, configure for landing, landing checklist, land. They definitely spend more time taxiing than flying.
That's super fun, all flying no cruise. At least in FSX.
I've done even shorter doing a repo from ADS to DAL. Also talked to a flexjet pilot who did it once and as soon as he took off from ADS on 15 the Addison controller cleared him to land at DAL 13L.
I repo DFW-ADS or DAL-ADS often enough. I do get the gear up for a few seconds though.
My Flight Sim ops were often between CGX, ORD, and MDW
I've seen flights from RBD-DAL as well
I love it . A pilot who knows the regs . Dont waste my time , I am requesting VFR .👍🤝
Could a regular airliner (737, 747, A380, etc) fly VFR? Or is it specifically allowed in this case because the Endeavor is a relatively small plane?
Kyle Nakamura VFR has higher weather minimums. Most airline route lengths would make it inefficient to fly and dodge IMC. Airlines also fly in class A airspace which requires an IFR flight plan so unless they’re flying below the class A they’ll need an IFR flight plan anyways.
Kyle Nakamura theoretically if you had the money to rent one of those planes and also had all the applicable type ratings or endorsements, then yeah you could fly VFR in them. Most pilots get their instrument rating before their multi rating though, so it’s not as big of a factor. It’s more about the $$$ lol
@@kylenakamura4353 I believe that if you have passengers as an airline, you have to fly IFR. Here, it's was just repositioning, so no passengers. Hence, they were able to fly VFR.
@@kylenakamura4353 it's allowed because it's a repo flight = no passengers
EDV5578: Can we just go VFR to LGA?
Every other pilot: NOOOOOO!
What's VFR?
@@petervaicels8578 it means visual flight rules and generally big planes fly ifr (instrument flight rules) not vfr. Essentially it just means you need to be able to maintain certain visual minimums. Basically not flying in clouds.
@@gobarn1877 Which going from JFK to LGA if its clear there its gonna be clear at LGA. However this is not the easiest airport for VFR cause of where some of the runways are
Well if they stand under 18,000 they can
Thats why we don't have a flow.
ATC: are you in VFR?
5578: Yep
ATC: Okeeeey... Seems legit
I flew into and out of JFK in a tiny little plane VFR (Piper Arrow). All the local pilots told me it wasn't allowed, but JFK operates under the same rules as everyone else, so I thought it was worth a try! JFK weren't surprised at all - they really liked it, and apologised that they had to charge me a landing fee ($15).
Presumably their surprise in this case is due to the aircraft being operated by an airline, but VFR was a smart move in this situation! If I have no flightplan filed, I usually ensure it's not going to be too busy with planned arrivals at the airport, and just suffix the word 'VFR' to my initial call-up at bigger airports (London Gatwick, Orlando International etc) to save them hunting for my flightplan/strip.
I guess this was a long time ago. You can certainly land at JFK, but the fees (as of today) are:
Landing - minimum fee: $50
Landing - additional fee between 3PM - 10PM: $100
Departure: $6.95 per 1,000lbs
Departure minimum fee: $25
Departure - additional fee between 3PM - 10PM: $100
Parking (up to 8 hours): $45
You're looking at $120 minimum just to the NYC Port Authority, or $320 if you're not an early bird. This is before and handling fees from the FBO, and there is only one FBO, Sheltair. Sheltair's handling fees for a small single engine piston plane start at $50, although if you pump enough of their $9/gallon fuel they might waive that for you.
Technically any certificated aircraft can land at any public use airport, which does include JFK, LaGuardia, O'Hare, Atlanta, etc. They control GA traffic by making it prohibitively expensive to land there just for fun.
Teterboro is the go-to for private planes. It's still not cheap, and your Piper may look a little out of place next to a Boeing Business Jet or a Gulfstream, but it's better than JFK/LGA.
It was during Storm Sandy (made the landing a little interesting!), and I purposely chose the dead of night, to avoid stressing a busy system.
They knew then that the fees were going to be artificially raised in the near future, and were very unhappy about it - for some reason they loved having such a small (and boring!) plane fly in, thought it was a great laugh, and were very encouraging!
One of the best things about large US airports is their delight in mixing small/slow aircraft between airliners safely without disruption - they seem to regard it as a mark of being an excellent air traffic controller, rather than as a chore/annoyance!
@@Mojoissimo We used to own a Piper Arrow 200. Solid-ass airplane!
Piper November 3454 Lima Follow the British Airways 747 and line up and wait on runway 31L. Caution wake turbulence.
My old airline we could do vfr but it was removed from our manual. We used to do LGA and jfk to PHL vfr a bit.
I recall at a regional French airport I was flying a C310 back to UK. There were about 10 pilots, all in smart uniforms, mainly flying small corporate jets filing flight plans at the desk. They were all looking pretty glum - apparently there was a 90 minute + delay for departure. In due course I (in jeans and a T-shirt) handed across my flight plan and was told I could go to the aircraft immediately, no delay. I heard one of the pilots ask why I had no delay while they all had to wait well over an hour. "Because he is VFR" was the reply. Soon I was surrounded by 10 pilots all asking if they could copy my VFR departure route (it was a published route requiring flying a heading to a river, then along the river to a landmark, then to another landmark before clearing the ATZ).
I was flying a C-172 London to Khartoum last year and had to go to the briefing room in Athens to manually file my flight plan. Because I’d been in the plane ready to start up for the flight to Crete, I was in my life jacket. Was so funny walking past many Aegean Airlines crews all wearing sunglasses indoors etc. They definitely noticed. Wearing a life jacket in front of a load of airline pilots is a good flex
that awkward moment when the FAA lets planes fly around New York without paperwork.
country boy I do it all the time in the SFRA, look it up it’s a cool VFR workaround of sorts.
Yeah I would expect 9/11 memories would cause all sorts of paranoia in that area
Airlines don't let planes fly with more fuel than they need so I imagine this guy was running on wound up rubber bands.
@@Ixions well. downtown NYC is closer than LGA tho, so what's your point?
@@efari Well the first point is for the chuckles. Secondly, the guy flying VFR port to port LGA is less of a threat than the guy with paperwork flying LAX with a full tank of gas.
Remember, if you want to fuck with someone visiting NYC point out that terrorists prefer a full tank of gas and show them videos of rats swimming up sewer pipes into toilets.
When your flight sim flight is real life.
Yeah, I watched specifically because this is the sort of thing I'd do on VATSIM :)
@@philipmcniel4908 lmao I literally had that exact thought
On FSX offline I always accidentally hit the cancel ifr button on the atc window and I am like "NOOOOO" I refuse to do VFR in a 737.
DorianTM Why don't you use vatsim ?
@@noah9130 not experienced enough
Teterboro = "what's going on there?!"
I was flying a re-positioning flight 24 years ago, Jfk-lga in a 727-200. It was straight out and straight in, at 0700 am. Off to on was 7 minutes. I told engineer and copilot, “we’ll raise the landing gear, keep the slats and flaps out, and don’t flip any switches on the f/e panel”. Took off, did after takeoff checklist then before landing checklist, and landed. When at the gate in lga, the engineer and copilots’ brains were still at JFK😳. It was a fun flight, for sure👍🏻
I'd like to become a pilot, and thinking about it, I realized only retracting the gear makes sense as it's solely detrimental to safe flight when in the air.
This is hilarious! Minor subtitle correction:
1:51 is "it looks like they're actually gonna let you do this"
Comment correction:
"This is hilarious!"
Thank you! I didn't catch it.
Jaime Mierow Haha thanks, damn autocorrect
@@MusabJilani damn it. You edited your comment and i spent 5 minutes trying to figure out where it was wrong lol
If only Kennedy Steve had been the one to deal with this.
decline2state Oh fuck yeah that would’ve been hilarious.
@@joshuam20
"5578, roger... Taxi via Bravo and hold short of November - give way to the school bus carrying children on the way back from the museum on your left. Once clear, proceed down the road and give way to traffic. Actually, can you pick up the LGA tower a round of starbucks as you pass down 3rd?"
"Affirm"
@@Trek001 Ha!
I love how the controller just short circuits at the idea of an airliner just flying VFR to a neighboring airport, like it was a GA flight.
Usually a repositioning flight under VFR would be done with the aircraft registration, not an airline callsign. Could be one of the reasons for the confusion.
Yeah this is the second time I've watched this and just thought about this. I think he could go by callsign if he made a VFR flight plan, but we know he didn't.
I'd've said "Endeavor N123AB"
Yeah, but the pilot was probably still in the mindset, since he did file a flight plan.
You can use a callsign on a VFR flight plan.
@@N1120A Does it need to be a company callsign or is "Harambé 5" legal?
Pilot: Gear up!
Computer: Minimum!
About 40 years ago, I once really confused a controller, by asking to fly from one side of CLE to the other. It was a very long taxi, and the taxiway used to be a runway, so we thought why drive there when we can fly? The controller had nothing going on at the time, and reluctantly approved it. Flight time 1 minute, at 50’ agl.
love it
You're a cool dude
I would have loved to see that.
Your landing and takeoff rolls must've been very short.
Maybe they should have just driven the plane there via Grand Central Parkway. 😄
Jacky Robertson pkwy is faster😂😂
@@henryweber393 Haven't been out that way for a while. LOL
Yeah, but make that 'second exit mistake', and wind up on the Van Wyck headed for the Midtown Tunnel....
Cops wouldn't like the idea of a plane on the street. The wingspan us too big and would take out anything it hits, signs, traffic signals utility poles.
What about the Van Wyck?
They say no one's
ever beaten the Van Wyck
This sort of thing was once more common - back in the 70’s and even in the early 2000’s at AA we had them weekly. The actual flight took around 20-30 minutes off to on, but I once flew a 727 from LGA to JFK in under 4 minutes. Took off on 22 and landed 13L at JFK. Maybe a record in a transport category airplane. Takeoffs on 22 at LGA required Chief Pilot approval back then at AA due to noise over Queens.
It's much easier when you only have one airport to operate in your city
looser
I love that I just heard an airliner get cleared into class bravo airspace
It would have been better if he was told "Stay clear of the Bravo". LOL
Heading... left onto the access road, right onto Lefferts Blvd, left onto Queens Blvd, right onto Junction Blvd and maintain to LGA.
I’ve flown this same type of repo flight in an MD88. Lots of fun and quick in VFR conditions filed IFR. No pax. Great city tour!
The Angry Puppy.
lessons learned: if no flight plan is filed, just vfr around 🤪
I used to dispatch a Kalitta Air B747 KEWR - KJFK nearly every day in the early 2000s.
3:30 That would have been a weird experience for anyone out on the northern end of Sandy Hook, NJ. Small GA aircraft are commonly seen there at low altitude, but definitely not any airliners.
I bet flying an airliner vfr is a rare bit of fun
Notice how they vectored the plane like it was IFR. If the flight was longer they could have flown around a bit for fun before landing. LOL
Vfr for a large airframe in jfk LaGuardia must be just so insane it just doesn’t happen.
@@americanswan In class bravo you follow vectors from ATC
@@jaybrooks1098 A CRJ-200 is very hardly a "large airframe" though.
@@americanswan You'll always be vectored in Class Bravo whether VFR or IFR unless they tell you to follow a VFR transition. This was essentially IFR but without the paperwork
"Tower- I can identify has a Cessna 182 if that will make this VFR trip easier for you to comprehend"
Don't assume my make & model!
one joke
A Cessna 182 out of JFK ?
I laughed harder at this than I should have. Nice one.
Biggest damn Cessna I've ever seen!
“Endeavor 5578, Keep Clear of the KLGA Class D Airspace”
Uh Oh!
LGA is class B
Thank you all for the explanation of a Repo Flight. First time I have heard of this. I was thinking maybe it was a repossessed plane like a repo man just gets in and gets the hell out of there :) No IFR Flight Plan ok I'll go VFR!
Yeah... It's a good thing that the keys to the airplane are kept locked in a safe. Otherwise, repo guys would take them and fly them to the repo yard!
You can't believe what you see on TV. That's not how repossessions work for aircraft.
I've seen LGA-JFK or JFK-LGA flights sometimes, and yes just for repositioning for other flights. I remember I was so confused when I saw a LGA to JFK flight for the first time :)
“Positive rate, flaps 30 degrees.”
When I was in the Navy, I took a flight that went from Norfolk with a stop at Newport News Airport.
(I live in Norfolk now) that was what? 1 minute from ORF to PHF? 🤣
1:48 She said, "It looks like they're going to actually LET YOU do this"
They clearly forgot that readback "chear into class B"
Usually those flights are done later in the evening and it's always interesting when it's the other way around since the flight might be routed out toward Eastern Long Island to enter the landing pattern. Its not uncommon for a flight to be repositioned from/ to the NYC airports, some repositions into EWR heads as far south as PHL. These repositions can take up to an hour if they have to enter the pattern far away (50-80 miles or more).
You might even see HPN to JFK or vice versa with JetBlue flights.
My dad was one of 8 people on a 747 20 years ago that flew from Oakland to San Francisco. Said it was one of the *best* commercial flights of his life
On Full House Stephanie and Michelle once thought they were going from San Francisco to Oakland, but were really going to Auckland.
I was once on a flight from Oakland to San Jose.
I live about 9 miles from LGA right under the approach for runway 22. TBH I was really confused the first time I saw a plane flying at 2k feet only to see it was flying to JFK
Back in the 90s when I worked at United they had a LAX To San Diego flight that was a 757 that was a scheduled reposition flight and it always had like 15 people on it.
There was also a regular ONT-LAX flight but I forgot the airline.
kewkabe I know Skywest flew that route and i took that flight once when I was coming home to Fresno.
The weirdest flight Ive seen so far (on my flight radar app) is Oakland to SJC, which are 40 miles apart. It was a fedex flight. But its flight path looked similar to this one (3 sided square), it first had to go straight west before turning south.
This makes me smile even while repeated watching through several months
Welcome to Steam Edition
Another caveat to why this is unusual (but ok): Normally, all jet and turboprop aircraft fly above 18,000 ft, which is class A airspace and is IFR only (and must be flown under IFR flight plan). However, since this plane is basically going across town, 3000ft is about right for that to immediately setup for a visual approach into LGA. As others have said/joked, it barely (and possibly not) even make sense to raise the landing gear. So, on a clear day, why not VFR? They're still under radar service traffic separation in class B. They're just not used to seeing scheduled carriers (or probably other aircraft for that matter) flying VFR out of JFK. A smaller class C/D airport gets much more mixed (IFR/VFR) traffic.
If it's stupid and it works... I just love the lightbulb moment as she was taxiing them "Can we just, you know, go there?"
Awesome pilot... gets some nonsense and throws out the hail Mary plan! Brilliant!!
I used to think of such a short flight when I was small
would have been easier to just taxi up the van wyck
or just shove all the passengers into a bus from LGA to JFK
GAC not a passenger flight, it’s for repo
Van Wyck is never easier than anything.
They say no one's ever beaten the Van Wyck.
Controller: Are you guys VFR?????????
Pilot: Is it really THAT hard to understand???????
I think it's more disbelief than misinterpretation
What is vfr?
Shubham Sultania
VFR Visual flight rules. Being able to fly a plane by seeing the outside world versus IFR instrument flight rules, fly a plane in the dark for example by using cockpit instruments.
@@s2sultania VFR is an abbreviation that stands for "visual flight rules". It is one of the 2 forms of navigation used by aircraft. The other is IFR or "instrument flight rules".
During IFR flight, navigation of the aircraft and separation from other planes are directed by people on the ground using radar and other devices. Pitch, roll, yaw, altitude, and direction control may be performed using only the aircraft's onboard instruments. (Hence "instrument" flight rules) The pilot is usually "vectored" along a pre determined path.
During VFR flight, the aircrafts navigation is at pilots discretion,(within a set of rules) and physical separation between other aircraft is the pilots duty using see-and-avoid out the window. There are exceptions, such as entering controlled airspace around a busy airport. That requires prior permission, (even for VFR pilots) and pilots are required to follow that controller's directions while in controlled airspace.
Most larger aircraft fly faster and or higher than would be safe or legal under VFR rules. Also airlines may have policies that require all flights with passengers fly IFR even if it is a pretty day. Another huge consideration is the sequencing of aircraft into and out of busy airports. If a bunch of VFR airliners arrived unexpectedly all at once, the local controllers would be overwhelmed, so they sequence them.
There are times when VFR flight is illegal. Flight above 18,000ft is restricted to IFR under most circumstances. Other conditions such as foggy weather, or flying into clouds, or flying in any situation that obscures your view are illegal because the pilot has to maintain visual separation with other aircraft, and cell phone antennas etc using "see and avoid".
It was atypical for the airline pilot in this flight to be VFR. That was the source of the controllers' confusion.
That could be confusing
I'm waiting for when I can repo from SEA to BFI. My company likes to do that a lot.
Gotta nail that landing - if you do a go-around you're doubling the flight time!
It actually used to be quite common. I was flying for Commuter Airlines, not making the name up, and during the PATCO strike in 1981. We did that all the time, in fact New York Air used to fly between NY and Boston and Washington VFR low level when able. These controllers probably weren't even born then tho.
The closet thing I've experienced was from Anchorage to Fairbanks Alaska. About a 40 minute flight. They climb and once the plane reaches cruising altitude they immediately start their decent.
Flying ZRH to AMS sure does feel that way as well.
I think she had a stroke when he asked for the vfr!🤣
I did this irl, but with uber eats instead of a plane. We lived across the street from a KFC. I mean IN FRONT OF OUR APARTMENT BUILDING. But we got some crazy discount from uber eats for KFC, so we ordered. The walk from inside of the KFC was about the same as to the carpark where the uber had his moped. It took 25 minutes to arrive because the poor fella was so confused.
LMAO!!!!! For some reason I'm finding this hilarious.
Surprising...Many companies won’t allow VFR flight, at least where there’s ATC.
Since they were just repositioning the plane without passengers it’s probably allowed
Most companies allow it so we can cancel IFR late at night going into uncontrolled fields.
Strange things always happen in the NYC airports. I flew to Charlotte from JFK one morning as the only passenger. Seems that fog the night before caused two aircraft to JFK instead of one of them to LGA. So they need both in Charlotte, so I flew by myself in the cabin. The other passenger flew on the other plane.
Prior to 9/11 there were VFR revenue flights as well. On regional routes, Allegheny, Piedmont, Eagle and Atlantic Coast Airlines would cancel IFR if the weather was VFR from time to time.
There are some familiar flights in Taiwan
They flight from Taoyuan Airport to Songshan Airport
The distance between these two airports is only 35km(about 22miles)
And the flights are [routine flights]
Seems like it would have caused less confusion and been less hassle to load the plane onto a truck a drive it across town :P
Have you seen the roads of new York ? 😂
Yes I have. I go up there often. I stand by my statement hahaha
I always had to ferry aircraft from Addison to Dallas-Fort Worth and it was similar, if even closer.
I can't imagine this in European operations .
Actually i'm sure that many airlines forbid vfr in their OMA ...
JFK ATC advising to refile the flightplan XD It's a 5 min flight!
He would have landed with VFR before he gets his IFR clearance LMFAO
The most fun flight I ever had was from Myrtle Beach, SC to Wilmington, NC. Their flight from Charlotte, NC was cancelled to MYR. We had enough room on our plane from CLT to ILM so we took the passengers to MYR first. We dropped them off and then went onto ILM...probably 60 miles as the crow flies. I'm not very aeronautical but our altitude was very low and you could really tell our speed over ground. I knew all the landmarks we were passing and as soon as we were up, we were coming back down.
You know you flight is confusing when the supervisor comes over to make sure it really exists
Haha, she was like "say again" this airliner wants to go VFR? I wish more flights would be VFR, would save a lot of headache....
AADFWspotters They would still need some sort of clearance because they would be in class B the entire time. And in constant radio contact because of the large number of departures and arrivals between the 2 airports.
But I do know what you mean.
VFR in a Cessna is easy. VFR in a jet, over NYC is dangerous.
@@afcgeo882 dangerous is a bit of an overstatement.
AADFWspotters2 Oh? So we’ll just dismiss fairly regular fatal accidents that happen here with VFR fliers? The helo and GA traffic take up the lower altitudes, with the hudson corridor being uncontrolled. They fly at low speeds. The multiple airport approaches and departures slot just above that. Above them are numerous northeast corridor flights that are plowing non-stop. Then we add restricted air space and a plethora of high rise buildings. At 200mph+ this all becomes obstacles to aviation. There’s a very good reason why no one flies VFR out of LGA or JFK. Even Cessnas do IFR here.
"I don't think we've ever seen this".
Not a confidence-inspiring comment related to a simple VFR flight, is it?
Well, it's JFK and LaGuardia.
It's the fact it's a big jet flying VFR in Manhatten airspace. Probably pretty rare.
yeah pretty stupid
@@GregoryVeizades Not a big jet. A jet, yeah, not a big one. One of the smallest actually.
I’ve gone VFR to LGA in a Cessna Caravan. I attempted IFR, but the expected wheels up time was over an hour.. so I just went VFR.
Kennedy steve : how dare you 😤
Just tell them you are a Cessna 182, we do VFR all the time.
The funnier part is knowing exactly what pilots those were cuz you’ve worked with them before and knowing how hard they were laughing off the radio at how crazy the whole thing is.
2 things, did they have to carpet dance after this and is it Endeavor put out a memo over this incident?
@@dstblj5222 what incident? It’s just a VFR departure out of JFK. 🤷♂️
@@JJay512 endeavor put out a memo regarding an incident of unprofessional flight deck conduct shortly after that time
Thanks. This is an interesting special exception in the JFK, LGA airspace. Seems funny that VFR is not allowed very often!!
There are dozens of VFR flights there every day. Just not by airliners.
5578: We'd like to fly the Hudson River Corridor while we're VFR.
Approach: Ugh, OK I guess. Descend VFR, passing through one thousand three hundred, frequency change approved. Contact approach on 127.95 at the George Washington Bridge for LGA.
"Can we just fly VFR" yea sure why not, screw wasting time on a flight plan
"We'd take taxiway Charlie, but it's a couple miles short" would've been a good one
I flew once from Addison Airport to love field. So far the shortest fly in my belt
bravo to all
No way in hell I would do this! I've done this repo flight in the 900 many times and it is chaos the whole way.
thefactorypilot145 Why? It is still in a radar environment. You are still being vectored. The only difference is VFR altitude and cloud clearances. If it was a nice VFR day, then why not? Everyone knew they were coming...
I thought cloud clearances were to do with instrument rating of the pilot and not the type of flight. Can you fly "VFR" into a cloud and ask for flight following ?
@@narendranbhaskar Absolutely not! VFR has nothing to do with pilot rating except that only a pilot with an instrument rating can file an IFR flight plan.
@@narendranbhaskar Flight following is only a VFR clearance. You are still responsible for cloud clearances while getting flight following. This flight was being radar vectored in a radar environment on a VFR flight plan. They were not receiving flight following in a non-radar environment.
Scott Butterworth why? Because nobody knows what you’re doing in a very busy airspace. I did a repo once between two busy airports close to each other like this under VFR and it was a disaster. I wasn’t the CA tho. Never doing that again. Always file IFR because chances are all the controllers will not be on the same page as far as your flight number and you’ll get a lot of confused controllers. Last thing you want is confused controllers in a busy airspace with southwest planes and Cessnas trying to run into you.
VFR... LIKE A BOSS! :P Must have been quite the shock for ATC.
Endeavor is a Delta subsidiary, one of those Delta Connection carriers. Delta has hubs in JFK and LGA. It’s very common that this would happen, especially if there was a diversion to JFK due to the curfew in LGA. LGA uses regional aircraft for its short haul flights around the Northeast and Canada.
For errata, she said "[...] it looks like they're gonna actually let you do this".
Could flying an airliner VFR like that violate their OpsSpecs and result in trouble for the pilots with their company or chief pilot? It doesn’t seem illegal or unsafe - just unusual for an air carrier even if they are doing this flight Part 91.
If their General Ops Manual allows it, it's fine. If not, they would know not to do it.
@@llaughridge SHOULD not WOULD lol
It’s like a FSX flight 🤣
in a hot air baloon
I flew from newark to jfk back in 1984.
Probably the only flight where you wouldn’t bother to retract the gear.
VFR as in Visual Flight Rules? What do you mean??? *scratches head*
It means they can fly to their destination without a flight plan.
P.S. If you are mimicking ATC and not asking a question -- good one.
With all the honesty to US ATC, are their systems garbage or what?
Flight Plan disappeared even with PDC, GND ATC told them they have to coordinate but it seemed that Departure had no clue what's going on, they've been asked 3 times is it really VFR, they already acknowledged you...
I don't blame the people, I understand they might not believe what they see, I don't know how is it done backstage in US (I'm more familiar with European ATFM), but it quite often on vids here seems they have poor interchanging the messages. Maybe it's because of the rush, or systems limitations. Would be nice to hear from somebody who actually knows how it goes.
No, US systems are not "garbage." I'm a current controller and worked in automation briefly so my guess is the airline filed an (IFR) flight plan which goes to the overlying center (and the system that handles PDC's), which then forwards it to the appropriate tower. Since it was completely within the same TRACON though, it's handled differently (internal flight data, not through the center's computers). That's why they were given the 0332 code (internal TRACON codes, not part of the national system). Ground and local would have been coordinating with their flight data, not departure control regarding putting in a local flight plan and getting a code. Also the pilot was confused because they had filed an IFR and gotten a PDC (IFR clearance) then out of the blue said they were VFR which adds to the controller workload (and is something very unusual for an airliner to fly on a VFR plan). Departure also knew exactly what they were doing, unlike your characterization. They were only confirming something that was highly unusual. In the U.S., controllers are taught to confirm and question anything unusual, because that's how errors and accidents can occur.
@@racerboom3389 I don't know the details here, but for example there's a limit on how long a flight plan will stay in the system past the proposed departure time. It's pretty normal.
@@kewkabe Flight plan would be active for 2 hours after receiving clearance before being dropped. If they got their PDC 30 minutes before, the plan should have still been active.
@@llaughridge The computer doesn't know when they call up for clearance (or get a PDC which is a separate system). It goes off P-times.
@@kewkabe ok, so it's slightly different. When I heard "coordinate" in most European countries the controller assistant (as there are always two guys on the position, executive and assist) would physically make a call to the station whereas the coordination is needed, so they wouldn't get into only on the system indication but they'd hear that from a "human", that's why you wouldn't be asked again and again here :D.
Good to know how's it working on other side of the lake. Thanks!