Big thanks to James for running up the Formula Atlantic, on the garage4age dyno! Engine was built to Atlantic spec by Loynings usa. making 254hp on the engine dyno. Chassis is a swift db4 . It still gets out on the track often, which is super cool. Im sure he will jump in here, if I got any of that wrong. his channel: th-cam.com/users/Jamese30s50
Huge credit to you, it's also nice to put an Atlantic on the dyno as a reference point. It confirms that the numbers you are putting out on your home builds are up there with the established big name 4AGE race engine builders.
@@davegt27 The maximum RPM the TRD software for the ECU allows is 10,000. Yes others do go as high as 11500, but engine life becomes non existent and the failures become spectacular. Most that race Atlantic's will shift at 9000-9500 to get ~3000 miles between teardowns (pistons tend to crack). Once you go over 10000 it becomes rebuilds every 600 miles or so.
@@swiftdb4 This is not what I was told by Hasselgren. Hasselgren made it clear these engines have a 1000 hour race life. I don't know why someone told you a mileage because no race engines life are based on mileage.
@@zerohikari2685 no worries, I'm just speaking from my experience. Mileage or hours can be used for service intervals, but it is my experience that what you rev to has a direct relationship on how quickly the engine deteriorates and needs inspection for such things as cracked pistons, warped crank, bearing wear, cam wear etc etc. Just to put some maths to that 1000 hours, when racing the cars average ~105mph. At 1000 hours that would equal 105,000 miles engine life at any RPM (by what you are saying). 105000 miles is about 700 race events or 13 years racing every weekend. I've seen a couple of Hasselgrens fail well before that but that must have just been bad luck ;)
honestly your engine looks to have more area under the curve, with just a tiny difference at the top end but a significantly earlier onset in the rev range. Extremely impressive!
Agreed! Any 4ag builder that gets close to a formula Atlantic engine is doing impressive work. You probably have another 5 hp in your motor anyways if you wanted it!
Very interesting comparison, the formula engine has very smooth power and torque curves once it gets up there but your engine appears to have much better mid range power. Nice work 😎
This is what i've been trying to show on here for the last 2 years or so. can have an engine that works at both ends of the rpm range if get it right. but most people just look at the peak numbers 🤷♂ The Atlantic is specifically tuned for high rpm as. since they would sit in the last 3000rpm there whole life
@@Garage4age summed up by the previous comment too 🤣! People think the engine can only do peak power because all they ever see are engines built for peak power. It's like a confirmation bias or whatever. 😂
@@Garage4age "This is what i've been trying to show on here for the last 2 years or so. can have an engine that works at both ends of the rpm range if get it right" Out of curiosity have you ever showed/discussed what was involved for retrofitting that VVT?
That small amount of high rpm power can make or break a race car, which has no need for mid range power. Apples to oranges comparison anyway but still impressive.
Awesome Atlantic setup there, those are true and rare machines,this is one isn’t as insane as the others I have seen in Japan or Ausi, Wish I could gather all the parts to build one as I would love to own a 1900cc 4age 16v Your 4age is also impressive, not built like the Atlantic but the power is there and also very aggressive motor
@@jareknowak8712looking at this video again and comparing to his new video with his high comp 16v, yes you are right his motor is stronger than this Atlantic 😅
Great comparison. The Atlantic shows you more of an old-school approach at tuning back then where it was all or nothing. Showing with continuous data, research and development you can obtain close to a better average. The trick now will be to find the best cam that you can turn with the VVT. Depending on how difficult it would be to replicate these could have tons of potential. Many 4AGE are running the wrong cams for their setup and everyone could benefit from VVT.
Yep, a lot of engines out there running mismatched parts, not just 4age. Thats where the power is had, getting it all working together properly. vvti setup is up and running on good engine with the best cam combo out of my pile of cams. was short on time when testing which would work the best. so didn't record any of it. but will do a video of said combo with the vvti when get time
Funny that I just commented a couple days ago that your engine was practically an Atlantic engine. I like you got your Pegasus shirt too... long a provider of racing bits.
The G4A good engine is definitely a beast! Very well done for sure and making all that power while fitted in the confines of an actual road car. The Atlantic car has the benefit of fitting those smooth bend long tube headers so I expected more from it in the midrange. Very excited to see what you have in the works!👍
Wow! That definitively shows how well sorted your 'good engine is! I'd love to see what tweaks you can come up with to push the performance envelope further.
IMO Yours is pretty close and would make a much better street car as it makes bucket loads more power in the mid range. The formula Atlantic is clearly made to run in the top end on a circuit. Pretty impressed by how close yours is and I bet it didn't cost as much.
If I’m not mistaken, I remember these Atlantic engines need rebuilding at around 700 miles. You don’t get a super long life when you’re pushing 240HP. I saw a lot of holes in blocks.
Yeah, its mostly the revs not the power. the guys that run them these days tend to limit them around 9500rpm. Which makes them last alot longer, for a little bit of a hit in usable rpm range. Back when budgets were high and super competitive racing it would have been worth using the extra rev's.
its 100% atlantic spec, as far as i know. built by loynings usa. cool piece of kit. there is a link to the owners youtube in pinned comment at the top. maybe you can ask him nicely and might have some more details
Ever thought of doing a video on a best “bang for your buck “mods for a big port 4AGE? 256 cams, good exhaust, keeping standard intake? Be interesting to see
Really great job! seriously! secret weapon for the last HPs ? DLC or Nikasil treatment ? Good rings tiering for best compression (180° between first and second ring not aligned on the pin (45°) and 90° for the oil) ?
Hi, I am writing to you for help. You are able to advise on how to set the ignition on a Fiat 1.4 16v engine. The engine is controlled by the speduino. I have a preliminary map to send. The engine is stock, I would like to add some power to it. I would be grateful for any advice. I am waiting for a response
Are you in Auckland bro? Would love to come get a dyno run in my Yari Ive been building up! Just about to buy/build headers an exhaust, i already put 2008 jdm RS brakes and instrument cluster in. Be cool to find some other toyota heads. Not sure you mess with 1nzfe tho!
Interesting comparison. I guess it comes down to what you want the car for and what you want it to do. A road car you want lots of midrange to make it punchy and useable. Race car spends most of its time WOT and at the top of the rev range. Peaky delivery at the top of the rev range would be a nightmare as a daily
The Atlantic has a smooth as butter power curve from a bit over 7 to the high 9’s, where your motor is all over the place in comparison. Are those peaks and troughs noticeable on the road?
mine has had the big cams thrown at it without much tweaks or anything to smooth it out. kinda a non issue as its all getting changed. the bump right at the end is a dyno issue
Just a couple of things - is the Atlantic on carbs and ign management system ? I bet the Atlantic is a straight cut gearbox , probably more rolling resistance with the Atlantic tyres - so +/- for true comparisons ..... but a good result ! Just out of interest, when the Ford Cosworth DFV entered the arena in 1966, almost 60 years ago, it produced 157 bhp / lt with 3 arc cams ! gradually moving up to around 170
Funny that. My next street (actually country road) car engine is based on a Formula race car. I have the cam for it that will form the basis but I am taking beyond what the Formula class was allowed by running a larger throttle (class ran stock 60mm) of 69mm (nice!) and much higher comp of somewhere between 12 and 13 where the class ran a very low 10:1. Also mine will have the factory intake pipe which adds somewhere around 5-10 Nm across the entire curve, the class ran straight throttle body with filter which results in a loss across the broad from my dyno testing. Mine will also have likely head improvements as porting has improved in the last 30 years and slightly higher ratio rockers. Not sure on what gains but I hope for at least 20hp over the 340hp they got in the early 90s but more is possible.
I wonder what internal mods have been made for more efficiency. Oil pump and passages, crank case evacuation, crank scraper, water flow through the engine and pump mods. Oil drain back and evacuation. Small power gains here and there.
I remember seeing the Renault F1 team coming to Zolder with cast motorcycle wheels mounted, so the cars would fit in the transporter. After unloading the correct wheels came on and Prost c.q. Arnoux where off to do their testing.
Would you be willing to experiment with an other engine? For example the 1nzfxe with the 13.1 comp from prius. I've heard they gain a lot by changing the cams and timing
Im just curious can Hasslegren make a 4age Formula Atlantic for street use obviously without the race internals. Just to get like about 200hp or 220hp at max. Because doing rebuilds is no fun. I have a ae86 and would love that in the future. Pure goals
imo if change anything from the "formula atlantic" spec. its not a formula atlantic. but thats not a bad thing. my engine has zero parts in common with the atlantic engine, other than the block itself. plenty of off the shelf parts out there now, to build something more suited to a street car.
Would love to see some forced induction testing soon! Haven't seen the lux in over a year ): im sure the 4age community would eat up some sc12/14 testing
I have wanted to know how yours stacked up to one of these for a while. Where you able to learn anything new from the formula atlantic engine that could be used on yours?
@@Garage4age I thought the "good" engine had vvti. I just assumed it did because of the fantastic numbers. I would be more than happy to make ar cones for your exhaust runners if you would try them out at some point. What's your primary tube diameter? I've seen gains on the bottom and mid range before especially on setups with lots of overlap. You might be able to keep your current cams but improve your curve anyway. I would predict that the strange dips in your curve would be improved. I'm not trying to sell anything either, I just want to see the gains. Let me know please.
@@Dane33781 only my test engine has had vvti. The 318 intake cam is a no go with vvti. Clearance issues and only works over a small window of cam timing. I've actually already come up with a cam combo that will work with vvti, that comes on 500rpm earlier. Not really concerned about the wiggly power curve. Will sort itself out when have vvti. Some of its lack of airbox and the way the intake is tuned. Also the bump right at end isn't the engine.
I'm happy with the peak power it makes. but will be adding to the midrange power. its at the point going for more peak is going to hurt the mid range, well at least the easy way to do it will.
probably one of the biggest differences between them power curve wise, is the headers & exhaust. going by other setup's i've tested on my engines. The atlantic setup would make my power curve look pretty similar. lose a stack of bottom end and possibly gain a touch up top. I didn't measure but the atlantic look to be similar length if not a touch shorter and diameter is bigger.
....you have to analyze the gear ratios and the engine rpm range you will most use..... may be that your engine is best if need mid range power (usually in rally car and street racing). For sure in track racing they can optimize gear ratio to have always top engine revs between the corners.... In these case their high revs engine is better.
Yeah, as have said in previous comments. both engines are in the best place. my engine in the atlantic car would be slower, since would never see sub 7000rpm in race conditions. mines more of a all rounder. i also intend to trade a little more top end for more midrange
Internet myths. its borderline not possible to make 300hp with 10000rpm on any na 1600cc. would have to hold the peak torque it makes at 8000rpm (which is right up there with whats possible to make per liter on a na engine) to over 10000rpm before it would make 300hp at engine.
@@krzychogsmaller, around the 300 mark, using my vvti setup to extend the power band. makes a stack more power through the bottom of curve and same peak
Would you ever consider making and selling exhaust manifold? I'm building a kp60 starlet right now with a 4age 16v and I would love to have a similar proven setup .
so your engine has cams, coil on plug, better blow by venting and deleted distributor I imagine is that everything? also what ecu/wiring harness do you run
I put the test engines spec list in description, you'll have to go back to my previous video to see it. i didn't put it in this one. but in short, most parts in my engine aren't stock. but at same time all different to what the atlantic runs
I'd pick the Atlantic has less driveline losses being a transaxle, but the same time it has some packaging constraints for the inlet and exhaust. So it probably all ends up about the same.
hard to say. the atlantic car has a transaxle bolted straight to engine. so should have less loss that your standard rwd. but the slicks probably have a bit more rolling resistance than my road tyres. im also running in 4th gear which is 1:1. input shaft locked to output. the weird stuff at the end of runs on my car is the dyno starting to have a mare. doesn't like going that fast. you can assume it just starts to taper off slowly after 9500
Haha i dont like to guess. but his atlantic made 254hp on engine dyno when built. so showing about 11% less on my rollers. which are the numbers I usually guess for mine to get to engine hp if someone asks
Exhaust setup is one of the main reasons why mine makes more bottom end. using the atlantic setup on my engine would make the power curve look very similar to the atlantic's
Not to take (too big of a) jab at Loynings, but anyone can tell if it was 2 identical cars side by side at Tsukuba or something, that motor would lose out to yours. Peak numbers aside they're outright losing to a shed-built motor with half the money put in it, if even that 😂 Let us know how the BC rods are holding up when you've got some hours on them, I've been on the fence about those! Rebuilding a Gr.A motor and want at least as good parts back in it as it had when it exploded (by a previous custodian).
Engine already had 2-3000km on it from when it was previously in the car. wasn't reving it quite as hard though. The atlantic would be quicker in its intended purpose. since would be in those last 3000rpm pretty much the whole time. something like a rally car mine would be the pick.
@@Garage4age 2-3k KM's at the pace I think you're putting on sounds *very* respectable! Reinforced beefier ARP bolts or did the 2K suffice? And yeah, I was thinking something like N2 AE86's, which actually has and is happening, guys putting in either FA engine swaps, or the TRD catalogue, and lost/losing out to privateer built Toda motors for that exact reason, better mid-range. Of course didn't mean to be utterly unfair, for one that car is t h i c (and well cared for, it found a good custodian), and for Toyota Formula Atlantic, up against it's peers, I reckon that Loynings motor would give *anyone* a run for their money! 😁
@@ToreDL87 rod bolts are whatever the rods come with at the time. the engine was built about 3 years ago. has been in storage for a got part of that. mains and headstuds are arp
Dude your 4age mid range destroyed that formula motor, you are a 4age Titan... I wish you could tune my 20v man.. I'd have so much better numbers.. Well done dude
A think the "good engine" will outperform the other at the track....look at the power gains at 4700-6200rpm range...out of the corners...;) ....and remeber there is 2 corners on every straight line !
Shifts are 7500-9000 between gears which is where most of the time is spent. The car only weighs 450kg so is more grip limited than power limited in the slow corners, by the time it hits the exit curb its up over 7500rpm.
As James says, the atlantic engine would be quicker in its intended purpose. since will be sitting in the last 3000rpm pretty much the whole time. street, rally, drift. my engine would be the pick. so both best where they are
Big thanks to James for running up the Formula Atlantic, on the garage4age dyno! Engine was built to Atlantic spec by Loynings usa. making 254hp on the engine dyno. Chassis is a swift db4 . It still gets out on the track often, which is super cool. Im sure he will jump in here, if I got any of that wrong. his channel: th-cam.com/users/Jamese30s50
Huge credit to you, it's also nice to put an Atlantic on the dyno as a reference point. It confirms that the numbers you are putting out on your home builds are up there with the established big name 4AGE race engine builders.
@@swiftdb4 shouldn't that Atlantic engine be reving higher then that
@@davegt27 The maximum RPM the TRD software for the ECU allows is 10,000. Yes others do go as high as 11500, but engine life becomes non existent and the failures become spectacular.
Most that race Atlantic's will shift at 9000-9500 to get ~3000 miles between teardowns (pistons tend to crack). Once you go over 10000 it becomes rebuilds every 600 miles or so.
@@swiftdb4 This is not what I was told by Hasselgren. Hasselgren made it clear these engines have a 1000 hour race life. I don't know why someone told you a mileage because no race engines life are based on mileage.
@@zerohikari2685 no worries, I'm just speaking from my experience. Mileage or hours can be used for service intervals, but it is my experience that what you rev to has a direct relationship on how quickly the engine deteriorates and needs inspection for such things as cracked pistons, warped crank, bearing wear, cam wear etc etc.
Just to put some maths to that 1000 hours, when racing the cars average ~105mph. At 1000 hours that would equal 105,000 miles engine life at any RPM (by what you are saying). 105000 miles is about 700 race events or 13 years racing every weekend. I've seen a couple of Hasselgrens fail well before that but that must have just been bad luck ;)
honestly your engine looks to have more area under the curve, with just a tiny difference at the top end but a significantly earlier onset in the rev range. Extremely impressive!
Agreed! Any 4ag builder that gets close to a formula Atlantic engine is doing impressive work. You probably have another 5 hp in your motor anyways if you wanted it!
Very interesting comparison, the formula engine has very smooth power and torque curves once it gets up there but your engine appears to have much better mid range power. Nice work 😎
Yeah 4age's are usually like that, build for absolute peak performance and that's what you get, peak performance, at cost of everything else.
This is what i've been trying to show on here for the last 2 years or so. can have an engine that works at both ends of the rpm range if get it right. but most people just look at the peak numbers 🤷♂ The Atlantic is specifically tuned for high rpm as. since they would sit in the last 3000rpm there whole life
@@Garage4age summed up by the previous comment too 🤣! People think the engine can only do peak power because all they ever see are engines built for peak power. It's like a confirmation bias or whatever. 😂
@@Garage4age "This is what i've been trying to show on here for the last 2 years or so. can have an engine that works at both ends of the rpm range if get it right"
Out of curiosity have you ever showed/discussed what was involved for retrofitting that VVT?
Great job 👏. Truly shows how the well sorted and tuned the "good engine" really is.
Nearly the same amount of power and yet you way more drivability in yours. Absolument amazing !
That small amount of high rpm power can make or break a race car, which has no need for mid range power. Apples to oranges comparison anyway but still impressive.
YEEES! my 4age research lead me to atlantic, and now you upload this. im stunned. i want one of this engines
Thanks
That midrange disparity is impressive
So awesome. The Atlantic is also likely to be down a few kW because those wide slick tyres always sap a little power.
“Rev it to 11,000 RPM…”
BABY MAKE UP YOUR MIND
FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS UNTIL THE NIGHT IS OVER
Awesome Atlantic setup there, those are true and rare machines,this is one isn’t as insane as the others I have seen in Japan or Ausi,
Wish I could gather all the parts to build one as I would love to own a 1900cc 4age 16v
Your 4age is also impressive, not built like the Atlantic but the power is there and also very aggressive motor
His engine is even more impressive than Atlantic, as a street engine, bc there is more mid range torque.
His engine has wider usable power band.
@@jareknowak8712looking at this video again and comparing to his new video with his high comp 16v, yes you are right his motor is stronger than this Atlantic 😅
Very impressive numbers on yours
Great comparison. The Atlantic shows you more of an old-school approach at tuning back then where it was all or nothing. Showing with continuous data, research and development you can obtain close to a better average.
The trick now will be to find the best cam that you can turn with the VVT.
Depending on how difficult it would be to replicate these could have tons of potential.
Many 4AGE are running the wrong cams for their setup and everyone could benefit from VVT.
Yep, a lot of engines out there running mismatched parts, not just 4age. Thats where the power is had, getting it all working together properly. vvti setup is up and running on good engine with the best cam combo out of my pile of cams. was short on time when testing which would work the best. so didn't record any of it. but will do a video of said combo with the vvti when get time
great video! very impressive work with the G4A, cant wait to see the next steps you take with it.
Wow! That close!
Love your work.
Funny that I just commented a couple days ago that your engine was practically an Atlantic engine. I like you got your Pegasus shirt too... long a provider of racing bits.
No words. Just utter awe.
Both were the best engine ever!
1 for the circuit
Another 1 for the street
💪💪
The G4A good engine is definitely a beast! Very well done for sure and making all that power while fitted in the confines of an actual road car. The Atlantic car has the benefit of fitting those smooth bend long tube headers so I expected more from it in the midrange. Very excited to see what you have in the works!👍
They won't tune that exhaust for mid range, that race car probabaly won't use mid range rpm during a race.
@@sepg5084 the term mid-range is relative…
Wow! That definitively shows how well sorted your 'good engine is! I'd love to see what tweaks you can come up with to push the performance envelope further.
I'll be focusing on fattening up the midrange going forward. but should be able to hang onto most of that top end if all goes to plan!
At 10k it just sounds like it’s pissing it in. Love it.
Impressive!
You never cease to amaze me!
Nice one! Always nice to have formula/prototype cars on the Dyno! The other day I did a bike engine proto, the revving is insane hahahah
My dad had a black super seven with a Cosworth BDA formula Atlantic engine in it back in the 80s. I wonder if that car is still around.
I like to see these tests, find the results to be close to a CA18De with 4 port head. Keep it up
the sound of beauty 👌
That thing sounds bananas!
This is the ultimate flex
Dope, love you work
IMO Yours is pretty close and would make a much better street car as it makes bucket loads more power in the mid range.
The formula Atlantic is clearly made to run in the top end on a circuit.
Pretty impressed by how close yours is and I bet it didn't cost as much.
A bit of difference in top end horsepower, a huge difference in mid-range torque, that's cool!
If I’m not mistaken, I remember these Atlantic engines need rebuilding at around 700 miles.
You don’t get a super long life when you’re pushing 240HP.
I saw a lot of holes in blocks.
Yeah, its mostly the revs not the power. the guys that run them these days tend to limit them around 9500rpm. Which makes them last alot longer, for a little bit of a hit in usable rpm range. Back when budgets were high and super competitive racing it would have been worth using the extra rev's.
Was definitely hoping for some details and close ups of the formula Atlantic clone
its 100% atlantic spec, as far as i know. built by loynings usa. cool piece of kit. there is a link to the owners youtube in pinned comment at the top. maybe you can ask him nicely and might have some more details
Ever thought of doing a video on a best “bang for your buck “mods for a big port 4AGE? 256 cams, good exhaust, keeping standard intake? Be interesting to see
I have videos building them up from close to stock if haven't seen them already. There no real best bang for buck mod unfortunately
best bang for buck is a honda k24
Really great job! seriously!
secret weapon for the last HPs ? DLC or Nikasil treatment ?
Good rings tiering for best compression (180° between first and second ring not aligned on the pin (45°) and 90° for the oil) ?
You build good engines
I’m here for asking video of how did you do vvt pulley mod on 16v age its so cool because I haven’t seen anybody else did it
Hi, I am writing to you for help. You are able to advise on how to set the ignition on a Fiat 1.4 16v engine. The engine is controlled by the speduino. I have a preliminary map to send. The engine is stock, I would like to add some power to it. I would be grateful for any advice. I am waiting for a response
Are you in Auckland bro? Would love to come get a dyno run in my Yari Ive been building up! Just about to buy/build headers an exhaust, i already put 2008 jdm RS brakes and instrument cluster in. Be cool to find some other toyota heads. Not sure you mess with 1nzfe tho!
Interesting comparison. I guess it comes down to what you want the car for and what you want it to do. A road car you want lots of midrange to make it punchy and useable. Race car spends most of its time WOT and at the top of the rev range. Peaky delivery at the top of the rev range would be a nightmare as a daily
The Atlantic has a smooth as butter power curve from a bit over 7 to the high 9’s, where your motor is all over the place in comparison. Are those peaks and troughs noticeable on the road?
mine has had the big cams thrown at it without much tweaks or anything to smooth it out. kinda a non issue as its all getting changed. the bump right at the end is a dyno issue
@@Garage4age good to hear - will be keen to see what’s next!
your exhaust might be slightly more restrictive on the top end but u nail it at the lower end
Just a couple of things - is the Atlantic on carbs and ign management system ?
I bet the Atlantic is a straight cut gearbox , probably more rolling resistance with the Atlantic tyres - so +/- for true comparisons ..... but a good result !
Just out of interest, when the Ford Cosworth DFV entered the arena in 1966, almost 60 years ago, it produced 157 bhp / lt with 3 arc cams ! gradually moving up to around 170
Its a later version with the trd efi system circa 1989. still runs the original ecu
That would be a great engine for an old Lotus Europa.
1.6L making 222? freaking awesome
Funny that. My next street (actually country road) car engine is based on a Formula race car. I have the cam for it that will form the basis but I am taking beyond what the Formula class was allowed by running a larger throttle (class ran stock 60mm) of 69mm (nice!) and much higher comp of somewhere between 12 and 13 where the class ran a very low 10:1. Also mine will have the factory intake pipe which adds somewhere around 5-10 Nm across the entire curve, the class ran straight throttle body with filter which results in a loss across the broad from my dyno testing. Mine will also have likely head improvements as porting has improved in the last 30 years and slightly higher ratio rockers. Not sure on what gains but I hope for at least 20hp over the 340hp they got in the early 90s but more is possible.
I wonder what internal mods have been made for more efficiency. Oil pump and passages, crank case evacuation, crank scraper, water flow through the engine and pump mods. Oil drain back and evacuation. Small power gains here and there.
for sure, all the little bits add up. the dry sump setup probably helps a little bit.
@@Garage4age there is definitely power gained by evacuating the crankcase.
I’d much prefer your midrange over the power loss.
Nice healthy 4age
Actual racing with space saver tires I would love to watch.
I remember seeing the Renault F1 team coming to Zolder with cast motorcycle wheels mounted, so the cars would fit in the transporter. After unloading the correct wheels came on and Prost c.q. Arnoux where off to do their testing.
Well now how did Bunta from the Initial d got to hold them formula 4age
Would you be willing to experiment with an other engine? For example the 1nzfxe with the 13.1 comp from prius. I've heard they gain a lot by changing the cams and timing
A friend has got that covered already th-cam.com/users/roman3s
@@Garage4age That's from who i learned about it.
I hear they go hard for what they are
@@DimZin I helped make the headers for it
@@tortron understatement
The Atlantic engine has less drive train looses as well no propsharft
Im just curious can Hasslegren make a 4age Formula Atlantic for street use obviously without the race internals. Just to get like about 200hp or 220hp at max. Because doing rebuilds is no fun. I have a ae86 and would love that in the future. Pure goals
imo if change anything from the "formula atlantic" spec. its not a formula atlantic. but thats not a bad thing. my engine has zero parts in common with the atlantic engine, other than the block itself. plenty of off the shelf parts out there now, to build something more suited to a street car.
This is the most legendary 4age ever
Would love to see some forced induction testing soon! Haven't seen the lux in over a year ): im sure the 4age community would eat up some sc12/14 testing
my car did have a sc14 on it for a few weeks about 10 years ago haha. th-cam.com/video/LwQKn_m1k6g/w-d-xo.html
@@Garage4age sounds so spicy was this with the good engine setup? Surely it would've had some crazy mid range
@@aergaetrhethaergertha2099 was a different engine. Had itbs and cams. Probably made about the same numbers as good engine
I have wanted to know how yours stacked up to one of these for a while. Where you able to learn anything new from the formula atlantic engine that could be used on yours?
Not really, everything on them is tuned to work at high rpm. Wont work for what im trying to do. smaller cams and vvti is the next move
@@Garage4age I thought the "good" engine had vvti. I just assumed it did because of the fantastic numbers. I would be more than happy to make ar cones for your exhaust runners if you would try them out at some point. What's your primary tube diameter? I've seen gains on the bottom and mid range before especially on setups with lots of overlap. You might be able to keep your current cams but improve your curve anyway. I would predict that the strange dips in your curve would be improved. I'm not trying to sell anything either, I just want to see the gains. Let me know please.
@@Dane33781 only my test engine has had vvti. The 318 intake cam is a no go with vvti. Clearance issues and only works over a small window of cam timing. I've actually already come up with a cam combo that will work with vvti, that comes on 500rpm earlier. Not really concerned about the wiggly power curve. Will sort itself out when have vvti. Some of its lack of airbox and the way the intake is tuned. Also the bump right at end isn't the engine.
I’d like to see your engine in one of these on track it could see some advantage in acceleration
The sound reminds me of a nfsu2 Dyno session.
It looks like you are reaching the limit on your 4age. Or are you going to eventually make more power on your engine than the formula spec one?
I'm happy with the peak power it makes. but will be adding to the midrange power. its at the point going for more peak is going to hurt the mid range, well at least the easy way to do it will.
Well thats interesting, and impressive. I wonder how would the comparison look like with swapped exhaust headers. Formula ones look wider and longer.
probably one of the biggest differences between them power curve wise, is the headers & exhaust. going by other setup's i've tested on my engines. The atlantic setup would make my power curve look pretty similar. lose a stack of bottom end and possibly gain a touch up top. I didn't measure but the atlantic look to be similar length if not a touch shorter and diameter is bigger.
....you have to analyze the gear ratios and the engine rpm range you will most use..... may be that your engine is best if need mid range power (usually in rally car and street racing).
For sure in track racing they can optimize gear ratio to have always top engine revs between the corners.... In these case their high revs engine is better.
Yeah, as have said in previous comments. both engines are in the best place. my engine in the atlantic car would be slower, since would never see sub 7000rpm in race conditions. mines more of a all rounder. i also intend to trade a little more top end for more midrange
The good engine is a true street car engine.
Man I'd love to have a drive of that thing on the track, Lakeside park! Weeeeeeeeeee
wow thats crazy! I thought the atlantic engine was 300hp
Internet myths. its borderline not possible to make 300hp with 10000rpm on any na 1600cc. would have to hold the peak torque it makes at 8000rpm (which is right up there with whats possible to make per liter on a na engine) to over 10000rpm before it would make 300hp at engine.
what is the cam spec in Your engine on this movie ?
In this vid my car was running kelford 193hvc cams. 318/304 advertised duration 11mm/10mm. It runs a different combo now
@@Garage4age thank for answer. If its not a secret - what set are you riding now?
@@krzychogsmaller, around the 300 mark, using my vvti setup to extend the power band. makes a stack more power through the bottom of curve and same peak
video idea, make an exhaust using nothing but a bunch of different resonators
Would you ever consider making and selling exhaust manifold? I'm building a kp60 starlet right now with a 4age 16v and I would love to have a similar proven setup .
I made a batch of them awhile back. If things get quiet i may do another. not looking like thats going to be anytime soon though
@@Garage4age if you were to do it again would it be announced here or is there any other social media I should keep an eye on
@@James_Maguire I put them up on my Instagram last time
so your engine has cams, coil on plug, better blow by venting and deleted distributor I imagine is that everything? also what ecu/wiring harness do you run
I put the test engines spec list in description, you'll have to go back to my previous video to see it. i didn't put it in this one. but in short, most parts in my engine aren't stock. but at same time all different to what the atlantic runs
Concerning the cylinder head on the base of this atlantic 4age it's a big port (early) or small port ? What specs ?
Big port with normal Atlantic specs
Fuck yes!
Что-то с моментом не понятно. Полка больно уж красивая))) а цифра маленькая
Ill take the garage 4age built one... What management is the fa running?
Running a bespoke TRD ecu made by EFI USA circa 1989.
Sick. Does the formula have less driveline losses?
Why doesn’t the formula have the dip at high rpm?
I'd pick the Atlantic has less driveline losses being a transaxle, but the same time it has some packaging constraints for the inlet and exhaust. So it probably all ends up about the same.
hard to say. the atlantic car has a transaxle bolted straight to engine. so should have less loss that your standard rwd. but the slicks probably have a bit more rolling resistance than my road tyres. im also running in 4th gear which is 1:1. input shaft locked to output. the weird stuff at the end of runs on my car is the dyno starting to have a mare. doesn't like going that fast. you can assume it just starts to taper off slowly after 9500
Same dynos as well?
Y'know, with that comparison at the end- when you factor in drivetrain loss...
Haha i dont like to guess. but his atlantic made 254hp on engine dyno when built. so showing about 11% less on my rollers. which are the numbers I usually guess for mine to get to engine hp if someone asks
Are you ever going to release a how-to or a kit to add vvt to the 4a? Yes or no thanks. 😆
All of the above. Yes, no and maybe. Working on version 3 at the moment.
Hilux has been on a serious diet I see
was a touch heavy still
Your engine looks to jave more usable power in the mids
Bet that exhaust manifold flows a tad better than yours. Shows how good your tuning is. Be nice to have an atlantic car.
Exhaust setup is one of the main reasons why mine makes more bottom end. using the atlantic setup on my engine would make the power curve look very similar to the atlantic's
this 1.6 atmo?
what kind of fuel is used?
Avgas and 1598cc
Respect! Thanks for sharing
Not to take (too big of a) jab at Loynings, but anyone can tell if it was 2 identical cars side by side at Tsukuba or something, that motor would lose out to yours.
Peak numbers aside they're outright losing to a shed-built motor with half the money put in it, if even that 😂
Let us know how the BC rods are holding up when you've got some hours on them, I've been on the fence about those!
Rebuilding a Gr.A motor and want at least as good parts back in it as it had when it exploded (by a previous custodian).
Engine already had 2-3000km on it from when it was previously in the car. wasn't reving it quite as hard though.
The atlantic would be quicker in its intended purpose. since would be in those last 3000rpm pretty much the whole time. something like a rally car mine would be the pick.
@@Garage4age 2-3k KM's at the pace I think you're putting on sounds *very* respectable! Reinforced beefier ARP bolts or did the 2K suffice?
And yeah, I was thinking something like N2 AE86's, which actually has and is happening, guys putting in either FA engine swaps, or the TRD catalogue, and lost/losing out to privateer built Toda motors for that exact reason, better mid-range.
Of course didn't mean to be utterly unfair, for one that car is t h i c (and well cared for, it found a good custodian), and for Toyota Formula Atlantic, up against it's peers, I reckon that Loynings motor would give *anyone* a run for their money! 😁
@@ToreDL87 rod bolts are whatever the rods come with at the time. the engine was built about 3 years ago. has been in storage for a got part of that. mains and headstuds are arp
damnit... gota get my dyno going again...
Oh yeah, now we're screamin'
Dude your 4age mid range destroyed that formula motor, you are a 4age Titan... I wish you could tune my 20v man.. I'd have so much better numbers.. Well done dude
Hell yeah, that is crazy, tbh imo for the difference in peak power of 6hp your engine would be better since got more mid range
15kw or so difference atleast at 5000rpm
The spare wheels though 😂😂
Ae86 anybody?
Looks like they need a vvt upgrade ……
Make sure to rev it up to 11000 rpm 💀
Is it possible to test a 4age on methanol?
No bad, no bad
Hi!
hi
Wow
A think the "good engine" will outperform the other at the track....look at the power gains at 4700-6200rpm range...out of the corners...;) ....and remeber there is 2 corners on every straight line !
Shifts are 7500-9000 between gears which is where most of the time is spent. The car only weighs 450kg so is more grip limited than power limited in the slow corners, by the time it hits the exit curb its up over 7500rpm.
As James says, the atlantic engine would be quicker in its intended purpose. since will be sitting in the last 3000rpm pretty much the whole time. street, rally, drift. my engine would be the pick. so both best where they are
@@swiftdb4 fast tracks ! ;)
basically slower then miata. 75ftlbs
you are looking at the power scale. its 140ftlb at 8000rpm or probably 155 ish at engine if added driveline loss
👍👍😁😁,,
I USE MY PRIMARY FOR DAYS...
Now imagine it with a turbo 😍
11000 RPM to get Buntas respect