Great analysis as always EVM. A similar video as we head into the potential winter of discontent would be both very intereresting with fuel prices nearly 50p more per litre since your last video and electricity per Kwh at nearly double to when this video was made.
I have owned 3 different Zoe's over nearly 9 years and never paid for my electricity used! I have workplace charging for free as my company offer it at 22kw. I use Tesco charging which is free at present for 22kw on Pod point and have used the free other chargers at 7kw when I need to overnight. So far I have saved £13000 on petrol as I used to put £30 per week in my fuel car before getting the Zoe's. I'm well pleased.
That is an amazing savings! We’re going on our third year with mainly EV driving. I like the idea of going up to 5, 10, 15+ years etc on electric and calculating all those savings! Hopefully my daughter (who is two now) will never spend much of anything on gas/petrol!
@@sergentcolon1 That's a DC fast charger, not a 22kw home charger. Home chargers are basically a plug into the mains, they are limited by the speed of the onboard inverter, Normal around 7-11kw. DC fast chargers have the inverters, so then bypass the onboard and directly charge the batteries. Hope that helps you understand the difference.
@@Robert-cu9bm I understand the difference perfectly well, I’m an electrician ! He said it was a 22kw charger he used at work. Home chargers are limited to 7kw unless you happen to have a 3 phase supply.
Thanks for the video. As you said, prices change so what's true now won't necessarily be the same in a year or two. My longer-term concern is post 2030 when there will no longer need to be incentives to buy EVs, and the amount of petrol and diesel being sold is decreasing, the government will need to recoup the tax losses on liquid fuel and whether it's through road pricing, or VED, or some form of tax on the electricity, EVs will lose any form of cost advantage. So I think we should enjoy it while we can, but not expect it to last.
If they bring in a price per mile system then it would really be fairer than the current system in the majority of cases. Base it on an MOT and we're away.
Running an EV will be more expensive then an ICE car very soon if the EV driver relies on public charging. I say this based on the current price of public charging along with the efficiency of the EV looks like only a few cars do more then 3.5 on average excluding Tesla and they all take a hit in cold weather which is what we get 9 months of the year. Government need to reduce VAT to 5% on public charging and standardise the price nationally.
My 450,000 mile 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7Di currently costs me 13p per mile in fuel. I hired an EV van last year... It is a reasonable test as I cannot charge at home so I'd be dependent on public charging. I hired the EV van for my detailing business. The EV van allegedly had a 200 mile range. On a typical day. I drive 150miles per day. Once I'd loaded the van for work inc the water tank. I was getting 50 miles from a charge. I had to charge the thing 3 times per day! Thats around 4 hours wasted per day!. I gave the thing back early as it was costing me money... Had to cancel appointments because the short range and constant need to charge the thing was not workable. My good day went like this: Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus. Charge the van... Yawn. Do 1st job... Charge the van. Do 2nd job Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work. What usually happened was: Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus. Charge the van... Yawn. Do 1st job... Drive to the charge point, wait in a 3 deep que and eventually charge the van. Cancel 2nd job because of the charging issue. Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work. If we did any socialising, shopping etc... I'd need to visit the charger again before turning in for the night or we wouldnt have enough juice to take the missus to work in the morning. Charging the van isnt just the time charging the thing. Theres the time to drive to the charge point (not many around here). Waiting for a charger to be available if someone is already there. I have been 5 deep in a que. They are not good enough. The range is too short and the charge time too long. public charging facilities are sketchy at best. I live in a city of 320,000 people. My nearest public charge point is 8 miles away, there is just 2 points. The next charge points are across the city some 15 miles away. I hate card payments. I have lost so many credit cards... I leave it at home, Im not good with cards.. I can buy diesel with cash... I like cash, I know where I am with cash. Added bonus of the diesel combo.. I can turn the engine on and run my tools off the inverter. I would hate to think what the range would drop to if I needed to run an inverter off the EV battery. The local bus company has some electric buses... They are always freezing cold and the drivers are not allowed to turn on the heaters on because it kills the range, the buses are constantly getting delayed or cancelled because of them needing charging. I really despair for the future.
Absolutely what I'm waiting to start hearing as work trucks/vans get real world testing. Considering my truck only leaves if I'm carrying a load or towing I don't trust any ev range estimates. Hydrogen seems like a good option as long as there's a water tank that dumps the water when you refill with hydrogen to avoid flooding streets. Electric makes sense for a car if you have a daily commute and can plug in at home taking less time than a gas station. I wouldn't want to be stuck trying to find a spot to charge and waiting
They’ll get better in the future but yes right now they are no where near useable for work. I can understand why you don’t like them or can’t get on using them with a 50 mile range once you’ve loaded it up with you kit that just isn’t good at all! What kind of van can’t carry a load and not get near to its full range?? I’ll tell you what van, a bad van that shouldn’t be a van if it can only do 50 odd miles to a charge. Who doesn’t buy a van to fill it up? Lol thats what a van is for so I’m guessing the range figure is based on an unloaded van which is an unfair test whichever way you look at it.
My work van was off the road due to a head gasket, so I hired an electric van for 2 weeks, my results were exactly the same, with all the same frustrations. Electric just doesn't work for my type of business.
You have to have a home charge point. RAC do a free home charge point installation ….. I’m reading into it. Might have potential I’m just looking to commute to work - 60miles a day
Are you in the UK or elsewhere? If this is the UK then yes, the future for EV is total and utter bullshit. Unless you have a home charging point, there are no cities with the infrastructure required to own an EV efficiently without high cost AND severe inconvenience. Look at Europe, they are thriving with EV. The UK is the laughing stock when it comes to being green.
Few people can afford the high cost of buying an EV vehicle and once critical mass has been reached, wait for the taxman to bring the cost per mile back to ICE fuel levels as well as imposing a new road tax charge. It's all hype, nothing else. Oh yes, don't forget we are about to see massive increases in elctriciy costs. I am sticking to my 25 year old XJ6 that cost me £2K and is absolute luxury. I could never beat my current costs by buying an EV.
Really good breakdown! It would be really interesting to compare the cost of buying the brand new car as well. My guess, for the most reasonable comparison would be one of the most afforable EVs out there (such as Renault Zoe), and comparing this to the equivalent Renault Clio, for example. You could even factor in average costs of services for that Zoe and Clio over 100K miles.
I have a Zappi home charger and solar panels - on a nice bright, sunny day the panels generate quite a bit of power, and I get paid for every kW/h that comes off the roof. The Zappi diverts any excess into the car (if I plug it in, of course) rather than send it to the grid. In effect, I'm being paid to drive! Of course, the panels don't generate much in cloudy weather or at night, and I get much more in the Summer than I do in Winter. It still cuts my driving costs though, even though the balance mostly comes from Octopus Go overnight.
Thanks for the video. As always, very interesting and informative. Unfortunately most of the off peak ev rates available appear to be matched to higher daytime/ standard rates than otherwise available normally, thereby increasing costs for all other domestic requirements.
I had the opposite experience (although this was back in 2021 so may not be the case now). Whilst I was waiting for Octopus to get my smart meter working and thus put me on Octopus Go, my flat rate for electricity was higher than both the peak and the off-peak Octopus Go rates.
That might be the case with some Providers but Octopus was 15p kw standard rate irrespective of if you took up 5p kw night time tariff or not and that 15p was market competitive
I had a look over my data from my last car (a 59 plate diesel Golf) and my current car (ZS EV). In the Golf, I covered 60,000 miles, and spent around £7k on fuel in 4 years. Economy was around 48 mpg, which works out at around 11p per mile at an average fuel price of £1.20 odds per litre. The ZS has covered 15,000 miles since I bought it. Average economy is 3 and a bit m/kWh (under 2 at times in winter, nearly 5 in summer, and one or two commutes broke 6m/kWh). I have to do all public charging, but luckily for now, there's still free rapid charging in my council area, although they quite frequently refuse to talk to the ZS, and I have to resort to other options. Grand total so far is under £150, making it less than a penny per mile 😮😮
59 plate means no loan and interest and no very expensive main dealer services. ZS EV means loan and interest and expensive main dealer services. To see if you are saving, you need all the numbers on the drawing board.
@Nice-oscar you're right. 59 plate Golf required a loan of several thousand pounds, had a service interval of 10,000 miles, and broke a gearbox, radiator, suspension, and various other items after purchase (was a 2nd hand buy) MG is around £17 a month for a service plan. Insurance is the same, tyres have lasted longer than on the Golf, and I'm lucky enough to have no other costs. If that were not the case, the monthly payments would have been roughly £100 per month more than the Golf, and that would still be less than what I would have to spend on Dino juice every month.
@@mcdon2401 just like all cars, golf needed service. Roads are bad. It is always cheaper to keep your current car than paying a loan with interest for a new one! Is just a matter of time, in future ZS will need service too. I am saying this as a taxi driver.
@Nice-oscar absolutely, it will require servicing. And the only reason for paying for a service plan was to maintain the warranty (since I have very little experience with the ev side) otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. Over the last 20 odd years, every single car I've owned until last year has been conventionally powered, serviced by myself (except for specialist work like the gearbox rebuild), and taken to well over 100,000 miles in every instance except once. The point is, purchasing like for like, an ev will command a premium at present. But under the present conditions, you will recoup costs on fuelling at a considerable rate. This opens the door to various possibilities like being able to take on a higher spec car, paying more to any finance required, or maybe raising your mileage cap on a PCH deal. As with any other purchase, buyers should do their research before deciding on anything. I spent at least 6 months planning before purchase, it was not a spur of the moment decision.
Good comparison. I am wondering if all the ice vehicle’s mpg have changed with the new fuel mix. Meaning the ice cars do less miles as they once did, the fuel cost is even higher and they move up on the whiteboard of truth.
Thanks. Having just bought my EV (eNiro) it’s good to see it in black and white (and green). I was going to get an MG ZS Trophy, but the delivery date just keeps slipping, so I cancelled and bought an eNiro from a local dealers stock. Still a great down to earth channel.
12 years ago i bought a 2003 vw t4 2.5 tdi for 5 k i run it on veg oil /rapeseed [canola ] i do about 4000 miles ayear , my old t4 vw transporter is as good as the day i bought it it is still worth about the same as when i got it ??? . if i had an ev for all that time i would be on my second battery pack by now for sure ,
EVMs figures show public charging on an averagely efficient EV is cheaper than an ICE which manages to average 70 MPG over the whole 100,000 miles ... and that's assuming zero freebie charging at Supermarkets etc. Yup, EV initial cost is higher ... but 2nd hand demand is so strong that resale is good, and thus depreciation is low - and service of ICE over 100K miles will cost quite a bit, and less for EV (or none if you choose to do none, I let my last EV go the last 50K miles with no service and still got 50% trade in at 3.5 years / 95K miles). But, yeah, it favours people who park off-road and charge at home/work
I was gutted yesterday - all 4 chargers at Tesco were being used (they are free!), so I had to charge at home for the first time... Still £6 for the first 300 odd miles isn't bad. Fingers crossed for next time :)
I think your EV charging costs are optimistic now with the latest price rises, my overnight charging rates are going up from 5p to 20p in March, I find very few slow public chargers at my destinations and have only ever used fast chargers.
Enjoyed that, thanks for doing the work of posting. Only trouble is you may be preaching to the converted. Our next-door neighbour was round for a cuppa and told us why she would not get an EV at the moment and it was all the classic stuff. If I sent her this I doubt that she'd take the time to watch. Shame. Dave.
If you’ve not already, could you make a video on the entire costs of running an EV vs ice over 4 years and 48k miles? Including the monthly cost of paying for the car and comparing offers, discounts and incentives? Comparing a vw golf to an id3 would be good. Put a £2k deposit in your hand and walk into a showroom. Depending up whether you came out with an id3 or golf what would total cost be 4 years later. Please include cost of wall box for ev, fuel, insurance, monthly payments, servicing (service plans?) and what equity if any you have at end of 4 years. An id3 with the larger battery would compare well with 400-500 mile range of ice car.
I mostly charge at home... at 5p per kwhr. 4hrs per night on octopus go. We have an MG ZS EV that only has 163 mile official range. It covers most of our needs and about 80% of our families miles are done in the EV.. the rest are done in an ordinary diesel Ford. We average about £1.35 per 100 miles in running cost.
And there lies the problem at this current time. You need 2 cars to meet a family needs, That 10% of journeys is where EV fails. Until they sort that, ICE is here to stay
@Wooly Chewbakker As you point out Wooly, charges are likely to rise soon. But so will petrol and diesel costs. The cost advantages of running an EV will still be there....particularly if you have access to free charging or have your own solar.
A lot depends on your lifestyle. In the 70s we had a Triumph 2.5PI - very exiting but 17mph. Then we had livestock so it was a Land Rover 25mph - but it would go anywhere in any conditions and did the job. Before the e-Niro we had a Toyota Prius which 'did the job'. Today is my 79th birthday so the Kia is bliss and cheap to run. We do have roof panels and Tesco is in the middle of town and free charging so we are very happy.
Just got my first electric car, Nissan Leaf and currently use my local public charger which is less than a 5 minute walk from my house and is currently free to use fast charger. I come home from work plug my car in walk home have my dinner then walk back down an hour later and car is charged, perfect for me.
Reminds me of when the UK Gov wanted people to move from Leaded petrol to Unleaded and made sure the tax was lower on Unleaded so it would incentivise people to jump and now look at the prices once they have a captive audience. The same will happen for EV, there will be a tipping point when the UK Gov says ok, we have fooled enough people to jump now we will reduce the incentives, increase the tax etc etc. Also for example mom's car gets 50mpg+ and hardly any service charges, how much do replacement batteries cost for EV now, again these will reduce over time but are quite expensive at the moment. Sadly you are screwed which ever choice you make as the UK Gov will surely tax you accordingly just like they do with a TV license even though they are supposed to be getting rid of it, will they then put it onto your council tax bill or onto you internet broadband monthly charge rather than get the BBC to fund themselves via advertising and/or subscriptions model !!!!!
Ev's are not reality only for people who have a drive and a charger. It's just the same as getting everyone into a diesel car and the government insensitives to do so. Hence why the likes of Honda have moved from the UK. Remember that a EV has more emissions before the first charge than a diesel astra with 200k on the clock the math has already been proven with university studies.
Sticking just to the numbers I think it is worth pointing out that the petrol equivalents to the inefficient EVs tend to be inefficient ICE vehicles - especially with equivalent performance. The other factor is where you drive. If you miles are mostly urban, the efficiency tips to EVs. If those are motorway miles it tips the other way.
The Vauxhall Corsa which has identical models in both ICE and EV variant is not an inefficient ICE vehicle. If you ever want to do a like for like comparison the Corsa and Corsa-E are about as close as you can get to a like for like comparison.
@@jediknight2350 I accept your point about EV range but the real question is can you drive to Scotland to the south of England without an overnight stop? If you can’t it reduces your argument.
@@normanlazarus1836 but i would have to stop several times in a leccy car so i wouldnt get there in time would i so your idea is void , my car doesnt have to stop i fill up once and go from south to north in one journey no filing , but an ev i would have to stop several times , they dont have the range and there also even more environmentally bad than a normal car , lithium is a poison when the batterys have end of life they cannot be recycled FACT so they will be dumped in a giant pile poisoning the planet as usual.
@@jediknight2350 The inability to recycle Li batteries is not a fact but today it is not economically viable - 2 very different things. As EVs become more prevalent then processed will be developed to make this more viable & less polluting, this is unlikely to be a major problem for 7+ years as the Li batteries have a typical 10 year life expectancy. To cast a technology aside because it fails to be able to cater for 100% of your requirements is as ridiculous as saying that I wouldn’t consider a vehicle that has less than 8 seats to cater for an extended family even though all the seats would only be used once every 2 years. Unless your requirements are so specific to rule EVs out of consideration (rather than an emotional hesitance) then, for most households, they make sense especially when most households have more than 1 car. I do think that EVs are too expensive & that current servicing costs at main dealers are extortionate but those were not issues you raised.
But the average EV driver will only use public charging a few times per year. For around 90% of the time, they will charge at home on cheap rate. You could liken it to buying a bottle of water at a motorway service station for £2. You can fill a glass at home for considerably less cost.... The occasional cost of using public charging pales into insignificance if you charge at home most of the time.
@@uk_assassin8684 Then you need to get in touch with your Local Authority, because they will almost certainly have access to funding to allow them to install free standing bollard or street light mounted chargers. The funding is also there for your Council to install grids in pavements, to allow a charging cable to pass under the pavement rather than over it. The problem seem to be that many Councils and Local Authorities seem unaware they can access this funding. You may need to request charging at or near your home, to see what they say..... You still would have the option of charging at a supermarket when you buy food. Tesco offer free charging at many of their stores now, as do Sainsburys.
@@Brian-om2hh I had a letter from council saying they're going to put 200 charging points across my borough, which isn't very many to be honest. The chargers at Tesco are a good idea but nowadays are always full, when i shop. I have contacted them also about help for home charging but they still haven't answered. I am really interested in electric vehicles but as it stands only a Tesla seems viable and they are too expensive.
Well done. What about the £1000 it will cost to install a home charger after the grant finishes in April 2021 and how it affects cost for low mileage? And how long will a home charger last and cost of repair? Obviously overall costs are less anyway. Cheers.
Can't remember whether you said in the video ... but did you assume 100% charging efficiency? ie 1Kwh bought is 1KWh to drive with? What are the charging losses for an ev?
My Octopus GO hasn't gone up yet but my figures are - previous car 27mpg, at £6.50 a gallon is £24,074. The replacement Audi eTron 55 has averaged 2.6miles per kW over the last 22000 miles (including winter tyres since November) and 10 months with 35% home charging at 4.73p = £673.08, 65% public charging at an average of 35p per kW is £8,750. Over 100,000 miles, the saving represents £14,650.92. I have no doubt that electricity costs are increasing and will continue to increase but it will take a long time to offset that saving. Also bear in mind that fueling on the motorway, which is, in my opinion, equivalent to public charging, is probably around 12% more than the £6.50 per gallon so, in realty, the difference would be greater. Ofcourse, you could compare a thirsty EV (my eTron) with a more economical diesel but that would not be "like for like" and when buying my eTron, the ICE contenders were similarly thirsty (Audi Q7/Q8). I calculate that home charging off peak, the cost of my EV is around 10% of the previous petrol equivalent and on long trips, charging from home at the start of the journey and then public charging after that, the cost of my EV is just under 30% of the previous petrol equivalent.
The trouble is I think the car manufacturers have pumped up the EV prices to steal your future savings a bit. Which is frustrating. Many manufacturers will go bust eventually or a price war. No need to by a BMW now for the power train as all EVs are similar. Excluding tesla the germa. Brands are premium but not as much as they think for the price. Of course if you like the car you get it. I am waiting for my car to die so I can go EV.
@@jaymiethomas only when not factoring purchase price . I have looked into a ev but working nights with a 1 hr each way commute and lack of charging at work I very much doubt even with my own drive an ev would be worth the extra cost over a ice car
@@s9enny That may be true now, but at some point governments will add even more levies and taxes onto ICE cars to (eventually) discourage their sale. Here in the UK, new ICE cars will currently be outlawed in 2030 and hybrids in 2035.
@@s9enny It depends on the EV you choose. A new Nissan Leaf is £25k, which is roughly the same cost as a new mid spec petrol Astra, Golf or Focus. The MG5 Astra sized electric estate car can be had with a 7 year warranty for £20k. Plus there is the used market too. I've seen EV's for sale at sub £6k prices....
Good video. Only issue I have is the overnight rate will not be 7p for new customers in the future. Current prices at that time of night are around 18p /KWh wholesale so the energy providers are losing money as is. For newer customers, I would assume the overnight price would be around 15p KWh which is double what you are paying. And this is based off long term power contracts on the wholesale market, an expected increase in energy prices in October again and the bill that is left outstanding for 27 energy providers going bust. Even so, once you double the overnight rate it is still way cheaper to run so long as you have your own driveway.
Just checked my Octopus Go account and it still says my 12:30 to 4:30 rate is 5p. With the e-Niro in that 4 hours with my Ohme charger I can put 112 miles on the car which means for most of the time I never need to use public charging. I couldn't be more happy.
Time is peoples biggest fear. Range anxiety the second biggest fear. Charging point third biggest fear. Once those factors are addressed it’s the en$ for commuter ICE.
I think you hit the nail on the head at the end. Tax. It’s coming for home charging of course. The numbers will not add up soon and I hear a few interesting schemes are being proposed in the Civil service for reclaiming that home charging money pit.
I suspect the public charging rate of 30p is a bit unreasonable - the typical ones I see are more like 35p and I imagine they'll start creeping up. And there don't seem to be many off-peak options other than Octopus Go so the 7.5p thing is likely not to be a realistic offpeak differential - and I suspect the gap will thus close a bit more on that. Nothing wrong with your evaluation and your reasoning for the pricing seems fine and fair enough, but I do very much suspect the gap will continue to reduce even with higher fuel pricing.
@@ElectricVehicleMan are prices cheaper up North? The three main reliable rapid chargers are InstaVolt (45p), Osprey (40p), BP Pulse (38p/44p as a registered user, 40p/50p as contactless). The last ditch efforts GeniePoint 42p and PodPoint is 28p (where there might be one/two chargers for the supermarket.. with one permanently broken)
@@aaaa-ig6sc If you couldn’t charge at home and had to rely on them then you’d use a subscription service which makes it cheaper as you’d be a heavy user. And again, they’re rapids, fast chargers are more commonly used as destination chargers and are cheaper to charge from.
@@ElectricVehicleMan which subscription service? There's BP Pulse (28p for 7kW, 32p for 50kW, 38p for 150kW) but you really wouldn't want to rely solely on that, it's a third backup choice if there's no InstaVolt or Osprey (both of which contactless). If you've done (28+32)/2 you really need some of the 38p, 40p, 45p blended into that for reality.
Brilliant vlog. Great comparison. I have home charger on nite rate. Do you have a second charger at home to charge up during daytime ? I’ve looked at this and can’t find an answer and noticed you charge up at night and occasionally during the day ? Best wishes
It's the pricing that changes, depending on your supplier and the tariff you're on. The night rate is around a quarter of the day rate. You don't need 2 separate chargers.
In the past, yes. But fuel and electric is very different now. You cannot compare two things with massive variables. Which EV, which ICE? Guessing at 10 year maintenance costs and depreciation.
Thank you for breaking this all down for us. I’ve always been more interested in how pricing for electrical fuel & infrastructure will be negotiated especially as industry and government revenues move to take account of the huge increase in electricity. Income from fuel duties for the state alone will mean that electricity will become more heavily taxed than now. The price we pay for a product is often dependent not on the cost of achieving the product but all the other revenue that’s raised in its sale. I continue to hold that electricity will replace fossil fuel but will eventually cost the same. At present ev ownership is in a golden age as far as cost to the owner is concerned. Cheers.
Thanks for your in-depth analysis, you obviously invested a lot of time and effort before producing this video. It gives us cause to think much more deeply about EV ownership versus even very efficient ICE vehicles. 🖖
Very fair evaluation, although definitely giving the benefit of any doubt to the ICE cars. It would be interesting to know what value motorists would put on the environmental impact, which is difficult to quantify. Personally I went to EV for ecological reasons and consider the long term savings as a bonus. Sadly I cannot reap the full benefit of commuting by EV as I have retired, but I'm not going back to work for the joy of commuting more cheaply.
Zero is the value I put on the environmental benefit. Ignoring that it has no direct financial impact on me, the environmental impact of a vehicle is very hard to calculate and EVs don't get away with it as they're not that great for the environment in things like batteries or manufacturing either. But regardless, they have no impact on the financial cost of ownership.
@@SquirreliciousMe It has already been proven that EVs are much better for the environment than ICE cars. There is a study. The train is of course the best but not always available.
@@starvictory7079 I've not seen whatever study you refer to, but the whole lifecycle of an EV needs to include all elements - eg the vehicle production, batteries, disposal afterwards, and the environmental impacts of things like the actual energy used to produce them. Just like the way an ICE is compared. But either way, it has no financial value to me in basic terms regardless.
Environmental impacts are a public rather than private consideration. Most private individuals don’t consider the impacts of their choices on anyone beyond themselves.. They just look at the numbers presented to them on the day of making a decision. It’s up to governments to apply appropriate taxes and restrictions to make sure that environmental impacts are properly priced into the costs that you are presented with.
@@starvictory7079 What study? Never seen one that states a true account of EV ownership. Like green electricity, never mentions the process pre production.
So i have a VW golf 1.5 petrol that does 30mpg around town and 55mpg on a run and i have been offered a kona electric, i have no home charger but i can charge at work evey day, i would only need the public chargers on my 4 weeks holiday times is it a good bet for me
I'm not convinced that the cost of public charging will come down. Suppliers such as BP and Shell have realised that its more profitable than selling fuel, as I am sure have others.
I'm currently trying to decide my next family car. Another ICE, Phev or full EV but my £40k budget for maximum 6 month old car limits the EV (ideally need a range of 250-300 miles). My current deal with EDF is fixed until July but when that expires my electric costs are going to sky rocket. Realistically I would say to at 30p/kwh maybe more? so would I be best looking at the public charging costs in this example to compare what would be my home charging costs in which case the advantage of EV over a good hybrid is less? Sorry new to EV so still learning.
@@ElectricVehicleMan but will those tariffs be available in July and that's what concerns me. Thanks for the reply BTW. Just found your page and love it including the house stuff.
Free public charging is great, but do you think it puts off anyone wanting to put in chargers on a commercial basis. The charging infrastructure needs to improve, but who would pay £1,000's for installing in a car park say, for it only to be used when Tesco's are full, because you plan to charge enough to cover costs!
We put 10 chargers in at work (50 employees, currently only 2 EVs and one of those is mine ...). Local authority paid 50% of the cost ... we were having some other electrical work done at the same time anyway ... when we go on long trips we stop at Hotels and Restaurants that have chargers, 7kW charger is about £2 an hour so not much "discount" on what I spend in their shop / restaurant.
Hello, Can Ya'll do me a solid? I'm in the US and started to look a EVs. You know what would be the point I would get an EV kinda thing. I have been playing the numbers against my car that I have now. Would someone break down the numbers to get the answers to the 30 on the gas side and the 3.75 on the Ev side, for the 100,000 miles and 30p for all the Ev charging....thanks
Wrong. The Government are to introduce a system of road tolls to replace lost fuel duty once a tipping point is reached. If you somehow think that taxation on greener or cleaner forms of transport will exceed the taxation on polluting ICE vehicles, you're dreaming. At least you have the optiorsn of producing some of your own "fuel" via solar panels if you drive an EV. You can't produce your own petrol or diesel. In any case, the Government ought to see a considerable rise in the amount of money in their coffers once they cease subsidising the oil industry with billions of taxpayers money annually.
Doing that now. My conclusion - get a 2nd hand version of same car that insurance is gonna write off. The Toyotas go on to 280k miles - that would be cheapest for me. Not necessarily best for planet. But unless ordinary folks get priced out of car ownership or it gets subsidy then EV isn't as viable as it needs to be. And I don't believe it is the best tech. Especially as there seems to be limited space / weight saving ... not even including the battery.
I compared a plug-in Prius v standard Prius ~10 years ago. I don’t still have all the details, but assuming electricity was always FREE and PHEV was always driven on battery, I would have had to do 100k pa for 10 yrs to break even.
If you are a Company car user your BIK is 1% and the Company claims back the full purchase price allowance in the first year and if your profits are not high enough you can offset the loss for further years and you can still pay off for the car, it does not have to be paid for in the first year
Have you factored in the drop in miles especially when it’s cold in an ev , we have two Ev,s and can do a journey of say 30 miles but the range has gone down by 40 miles.
What about the issue of having to change the whole battery pack when you’ve charged so much you only end up getting a few miles before it runs out? It’s the same for all battery powered objects, granted a combustion engine requires servicing at regular intervals…what about the time it takes to charge a battery car in comparison to refilling a petrol/diesel car. Time is precious.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Over time these battery packs become less efficient in the same way a mobile phone does. Batteries degrade over time as they’re charged and discharged and won’t hold the same capacity as when they’re new. So the answer is how long is a piece of string…but realistically about 10 -20 years if you use your car to the point it requires a full charge. People won’t do that as they’ll be concerned they won’t have enough range left and will plug it at every opportunity. All batteries get some sort of memory which will ultimately reduce the max range of the car leading to more and more charging. As the second hand market increases people who can’t afford a new car will get stung for the price of a whole new set of batteries.
@@ElectricVehicleMan LiFePO batteries lose ~2-3% capacity per annum depending on charge profile. After 8 years they will be at about 80% original capacity. But there are other issues:, Such as: - Rapid charging kills them, fast, - They CANNOT charge below 0c. - They lose up to 50% capacity temporarily when their temperature goes above ~40C Batteries like to be charged slowly (less than 1C) and discharged more rapidly (up to 3 or even 5 C) - C being the capacity in Amp/Hours Cars need to be charged rapidly and discharged slowly....which means their use case profile is terrible for batteries
22mpg sucks and Shell SUL is expensive, but if you actually want to know: 5p/kWh @ 310wh/mile = 1.55p/mile. RAC says SUL is average 158.11/l right now, Shell is probably more expensive but we'll go with that. 158p/l = 718p/gallon so 22mpg = 32.67p/mile. So over 100,000 miles you would save more than £30,000.
Very informative and entertaining as usual - thanks - Just a quick question regarding Octopus Energy - As Octopus promote themselves as predominantly using renewable sources - how do they justify the increased cost of electricity - has the cost of sunshine and wind increased ?
Ok, I'm guilty for skipping a bit of this and might have missed my points I'm about to make. I do have a balanced view of electric cars, they just don't beat ICE cars yet, on many levels. Don't forget, the modern ICE vehicle has been refined over 150yrs + and EV's have a long way to go. Maintenance. Yes, I do my own, change oil in one of my cars every 3 months at a cost of around £55. It's also HIGHLY efficient at burning fuel, averaging 21mpg. I know, makes the electric option look good, eh! However, 100k in an EV...., one word. Batteries! They'll need replacing, we all know it, don't argue. A cost between 10k and 25k. I've seen cars that are 10yrs old, worth 12k scrapped as they need new batteries at a MASSIVE COST TO THE ENVIRONMENT! This needs to be factored in, in long term ownership and "savings". Fuel, yes, ICE fuel is highly taxed AND VAT'd and is rising rapidly. So again, I agree, EV comes out on top. However, new build houses are having charge points built into them and I believe this is another new rule. Great idea. There is a but, but, the EV charge point has to run through a separate consumer unit. This will inevitably dispense electricity at a higher rate, i.e, cost more! (stealth tax) because of course, the economy is losing 80% surcharge on the litre of fuel you don't buy. I'm not kidding look it up. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to run to work in a mini EV, nice and efficient etc, but I ain't giving up my fun factor ICE cars when they make me smile so much! Smile factor, not smug factor. Good video though, highly flawed in my opinion. Thanks for reading! ps, none of my 5 cars in the family get more than 30mpg (yes, I know, making it look good for the EV smug factor haha)
And you forget that electric vehicles were around and operating when ICE one were invented. Too bad you've followed the same cult that bought out the tech 150 years ago and shelved it to sell oil. Trains, trolleys and the like were also bought up and sent to scrapyards to get people to buy more cars.... AND BUY MORE OIL! Do some reading.
the 2.5 is a taycan. the 3 is likely a leaf and the 5 is my ioniq. now add it the additional costs of petrol over an ev. 100,000 miles of petrol car you have apx 10 services spark plugs, oil filter, oil, likely need a new tailpipes etc. and road tax. and you need to look at an ev not needing to be off road while these servicing being done.
And all this with virtually no servicing needed on some brands like Tesla who insist brake pads (due to regeneration on motors) will last 120k miles and servicing is not needed until 83k? Although they offer safety checks and still need an mot, it's a lot cheaper once you've got one but the initial outlay may be more. At least with this I can consider the saving in fuel to offset against the higher monthly repayments which many will do too I believe 👍
Great video however if you are going to argue the cost of electricity is going to go up by at least double then the cost of public charging is also going to have to go up significantly in the not too distant future as well thus I would suggest your public charging numbers are far too low right now. What do you think?
Am I right in thinking that it isn’t the price of electric which is going up, but the cost of natural gas. I don’t think that the cost of wind and solar electricity has increased. The gridserve service station in Braintree gets its electricity from solar and wind, so it’s charging prices shouldn’t increase.
@@Richard482 perhaps but as we’ve seen with the fuel companies for decades, the wholesale cost is not always reflected at the pumps. The motorist is an easy target so why should EV drivers not expect to be fleeced in the same way as we transition away from oil?
An argument often used is how will the HMRC recover lost duty on fuel. But it’s worth bearing in mind that the oil industry is heavily subsidised. That money has to come from somewhere, so I’m not convinced duty and taxes on fuel are ring fenced for inland revenue alone.
One might hope that a point will be reached when there is no longer any need to subsidise the oil industry with billions of pounds of taxpayers money annually. Perhaps that might make up the shortfall in lost fuel duty?
How about maintenance. I do my own maintenance and basic engine and drive train repair work myself. I can easily order inexpensive parts online and have them delivered. I've driven the same vehicle for 30 years now. Will I be able to maintain my EV vehicle myself and drive it for decades or are these cars like smart phones where you have to keep throwing them out and buying a new one, and what do you do when all of the charging stations are occupied, do you call your job and say sorry not going to be able to make it today, I'm going to need to wait in a parking lot today for access to charging I'm in the queue and should be able to charge in about 4 hours.
Unfortunately those who can't afford not to watch this video have left a long time ago 🤷♂️... you are preaching to the choir. Great explanation, good use of white board ... my father used to say "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
Talking about cheaper servicing costs. I've just had my 4 year old Zoe serviced by Renault. I bought it just under a year ago. It cost me £524. I have never paid that much for a service on any car and I've been driving for over sixty years. I think you ought to revise the servicing costs.
Get it serviced elsewhere. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles would I'm sure service a Zoe for less. They operate a fully mobile service, covering most of the UK...... They even have a TH-cam channel.......
It’s worth bearing in mind that the EV’s are not subject to any fuel duty equivalent - yet! Therefore it could be speculated that sooner or later, EVs will be subject to something like per mile road charging. Unlikely this year, but the treasury are reviewing options, 2023 or 2024 could be on the cards. That will change the economics a lot. At this stage there’s no suggestion of how this will be implemented, but I reckon that vehicle weight at the very least will be a component in setting road charging rates.
Still watching with great interest how you can tax an ev on fuel. I can sort of see how to do it if you are public charging and maybe home charging but the components needed for home charging would be very difficult to regulate. Throw in solar charging and it gets very hard. The only other option is road pricing, but that really gets tough with the local authority grants and how is dish out the taxes. Road pricing would need to be consistent across the whole network to cover the vehicles that never go near major roads . Finally there is the move to use electricity for farming and building equipment, again how to recover the cost there . The only way it could work is on a sliding scale based on miles covered and size of vehicle replacing the existing road fund licence scheme and requiring mile figures to be submitting and a centralised per kWh consumption figure based on model and make. Sounds like a nightmare to implement.
@@johnrush3596 you can’t tax on fuel, but you can on mileage. Say for example that vehicles up to 2 tonnes are taxed at 5p/mile. So once a year for the first three years you go onto the DVLA website, type in your reg and vin number. Enter mileage, and then your tax bill is calculated. After 3 years you use the mileage data from MOT test results, so the whole scheme is just an extension of a database that already exists. If you are dishonest, then that dishonesty catches up with you when you sell the car before 3 years, or when you get your car MOT’ed. Now that’s an easy implementation. If you want to be clever, then you have varying charges according to what road you’re driving on and at what time of day. That way, you can discourage driving on congested roads at certain times of the day. You could do that with GPS trackers, or ANPR cameras. That’s quite hard to do, there’s a lot of time and investment needed to setup the monitoring network, but it could alleviate congestion if done right.
@@ElectricVehicleMan They can... From UK.gov ... Households have control over who can access their detailed energy consumption data and for what purposes, except where this is required for regulated purposes (for example, billing). At the moment the government doesn't care but when EV charging tax is implemented, they will.
Does the cheaper night time charging price mean you pay a higher rate for your daytime electricity as used to be the case with a night storage heater tariff.
I agree with your figures though I worked it out differently. I only charge 12.30-4.30am on 5p at present and that 5p x 7kw x 4 hrs = £1.40 divided by 70 miles is 2p mile which will increase to 3p mile after my increase. If I drove an equivalent petrol SUV auto it would do 30mpg @ £6.50 gallon = 21p mile. I do 7000 miles a year, so £140 v £1,470 so an annual fuel saving of £1,330 and even when taking into account the 50% increase to 7.5p kw the annual saving is still £1,260 then annual VED of £155 after the (first year £1,335) = £1,450, then service every 2 years at £600 v £300 divided by 2 = £150 saving a year = £1,600 and we wont even go to "No congestion charge" or £1 for 4 hours parking in London v ???? depending on where you park. The difference in cost from a reasonably powered F-Pace is around £55,000 new v I-Pace @ £70,000 but I would bet over 3/4 years you would negate that extra premium. I realise these are both expensive cars, but I would think it is pro-rata on smaller less expensive makes The biggest negative with EV is not range anxiety, but; will the charger work anxiety, but that is improving. I have had my EV for 3 years next month and I love it
Interesting video, but as others have pointed out you pay a premium for EV and with a typical 10k a year mileage (with Covid its been less for me), its only going to be 1k a year saving. The calculation really needs to show the cost of home EV charging at flat rate tariff, 30p/kWh. I switched from Economy 7 to flat rate some years ago because it was just *simpler* - no arguments about putting the washing machine or dishwasher on overnight, and the flat rate is in all cases cheaper than the day rate. So Economy 7 is going to cost you more unless you can shift a significant amount of your electricity usage to overnight, or you install a home battery that’s charged overnight
The public charging part is at 30p. And to be fair, it ain’t complicated to plug a car in and it starts charging at the cheap time. It’s really that simple.
@@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for your reply. I think you missed my point, that I like lots of people have single flat rate electricity supply so there is no cheap overnight charging for me. I suggested that the comparison should have included flat rate electricity at 30p/kWh, maybe blended with some public charging. You've priced 85% of your charging at cheap rate which isn't what many people have. Yes of course if you have a split tarif then charge overnight, but you have to weigh up the cost impact of all other daytime electricity (cooking, heating, lights etc) now being charged at a more expensive daytime rate unless you've got a storage battery to take advantage of the cheap overnight electricity. So saying it's a more complex comparison for many people
@@ElectricVehicleMan great video. My only comment is that 7.5kw hour by 4 hours cheap rate is only 30kw into the car (less the loss) so as soon as you do >75miles(ish) a day then you are at the expensive rate. I am assuming your 85% of home charging is at the cheap rate is based on the fact your only put >30KW into your car a day 5% of the time. Thought you could make that clearer next time it only really works if you don’t do a load of daily miles. If you do loads of miles 3 days a week but no miles 4 days (as you work at home for 2days and don’t drive at weekends) it’s way more expensive than splitting them evenly over a week!
@@welshmark79 Who does over 75 miles per day several days a week. That’s what we call ‘an exception’. How can I possibly do this for every possible eventually!
@@welshmark79 The average daily UK commute is 20.8 miles, and the average daily UK non commuting journey is around 9 miles. Like EVM stated, most don't drive 75 miles per day!
So in America the going price is about $0.40 Kw fast charging and my home is $.22 Kw. I don’t have different rates at different times, and I live in an area where electricity is expensive.
Fuel is as high as £1.60 now and my 2 nearest chargers are a 5-6 minute drive away one is a 5kwh at 30p the next 50kwh at 45p I don’t have the option to charge from home. Ev’s don’t work for me unfortunately
I look at the electricity costs and I realise I got lucky with when I fixed my contract, I hope its gone down a bit in 2 years time when my contract ends, but as you say, unless something major happens to change the market, 15p/kWh is gone 😥
People forget that in the uk about half the price of fuel is tax, so without taxing either petrol works out slightly cheaper, but you really think there going to give up taxing vehicles
If i use my vehicle for work use ,and earn £20 a hour it takes me 15 mins to fuel a petrol and up to a hour for a EV ,so earning potential lost compares to £5 for a petrol and £20 for a EV per hour not being able to work .Time is money.
Assuming you only charge during working days. Mine charges when I’m either working and it’s parked up or asleep! Unlike petrol, you don’t need to stand next to it when it’s refuelling.
You need to factor in the cost of fast food consumption every time you go for a moderately long drive and have to sit for hours waiting for your vehicle to charge - if you're lucky enough to find a public charger of course
It is not about what is cheap or not.It is about what you like and what you need.My diesel can run over 700 km and can get fuel quickly and don’t have to wait 90 minutes to recharge or perhaps longer if I can find a recharge point.When the Hydro-electric car comes in large numbers with Hydro stations enough I would comsider changing.
The EV position gets even better if you have solar PV or live very close to a free public charger. Of course solar is a bit tricky during winter months but the investment does become more cost-effective as the price of electricity goes up.
Agreed I have solar panels so my 2016 Leaf is charged practically for free spring/Summer and currently I do take advantage of free chargers at my local Tesco ( whilst I shop there and shops local to Tesco ) . I did wonder 4 years ago if I was making the right decision in buying solar, but recent events have justified my purchase.
Not a chance will your home Pv provide enough power to put anything more than a few miles of charge into your car. A 4kW Pv system will maybe produce 15kW of excess power in the summer so @3Miles/kWh you will be able to put about 40-45 miles of charge into your car via your solar each day, at best.
Most of the EV manufacturers offer 100,000 mile warranties on the batteries but the real lifespan of a modern EV battery with decent thermal management is more like 200k-300k miles, ie. more than the lifespan of the car itself. People really don't need to panic about having to replace EV batteries any more if they're not buying an ancient second-hand Leaf.
@@NickFoster And even if they should buy an ancient secondhand Leaf, it is actually one of the most "fixable" EV's around. There are already a number of independent EV specialists who can (and already do) refurbish the battey packs on older model Leafs (Leaves?). Cleveleys Electric Vehicles, based in Gloucestershire, in particular posted a TH-cam video of a 10 year old Leaf getting a battery refurbishment. The work took 4 hours, and the cost was £600. So around the same cost as typical clutch swap perhaps? And certainly nothing like some of the silly EV battery scare stories you often hear. Some would have you believe the battery must be replaced after 5 or 6 years, at around the same cost as an Apollo moonshot. But of course most of these silly rumours are from people who have never even sat in an electric car, let alone owned or driven one.....
High mileage drivers will replace their cars more often but for most who do 4-6000 p.a. you are talking about 20 years of use before the battery drops below 70% efficiency, so it is wise to buy an EV with a longer range than you actually need and I don't know anyone who has kept a car over 7 years let alone 20 years
In Victoria Canada 87 octane is $1.659/L, and the max residential rate for electricity is $0.142/kwhr. 2001 Ford Focus ZTS $0.123/km (driven for 350,000 km, that's $43k in fuel for a $20k car) 2004 Chev Suburban $0.25/km (driven for 350,000 km that's $87k5 in fuel for a $42k truck) 2020 Kia Soul EV $0.023/km (driven so far 65,000 km that's $1k5 in electricity, for a $41k car) I spent more than double the purchase cost of the gasoline vehicles in fuel. I literally drove the Suburban to the scrap yard and bought the Kia. The Ford is patiently waiting in the garage for the Kia to break down. For a real apples to apples comparison though, the exact same Kia Soul ICE gets nearly identical mileage to the Ford, and the EV was $10k more after my EV discounts. That's 100,000 km to pay the difference in fuel cost to break even. That's about 3 years for me.
I remember doing a spreadsheet before my Taycan arrived looking at the running costs. 7500 miles a year and all charging on Octopus go night rate - something I have been doing - results in yearly running charging cost of less than £250. Happily, the results were similar. If I still had my Panamera that would not have covered two tanks of petrol!
@@GWAIHIRKV Clearly you don't buy a taycan because you care about saving money. You compared the savings to your panamera. My point was there are no savings for the taycan between the two until the cross over point.
Enjoy the savings while you can.. Road pricing per mile , additional taxes for EV charging at home are both coming.. Also don't rely on free duty for your EV for much longer.. They'll be taxing them soon.. Slowly at first but for sure they will... The government will not accept the lost revenue from fossil fuel excise duty. They'll go hunting EV owners as soon as they feel EV ownership levels are high enough to start chipping them.. Only a home charging, solar energy generating person, with plenty panels correctly orientated, living in the SW of England will keep seeing decent savings with his EV.. Watch out also for Octopus going bust if their tariffs remain low.. They can't make any money buying energy to resale like that at present wholesale prices.. EV maintenance costs is where good savings can be made.. As long as the battery packs and electric motor remain reliable.. EV insurance is a lot more... Smart meters are apparently able to shut down car charging on newer home EV chargers.. They plan to have this ability to protect the national grid... Something else that needs to be considered if choosing an EV... Like anything the savings don't stay for long once the government and the energy users change the rules..
And you somehow think that the cost of using petrol and diesel will just stay the same? Don't you watch the news? The Government are to introduce a system of road tolls once the tipping point is reached. This will be payable by *all* motorists, not just electric car drivers. The basis of a working system has already been thrashed out by the Government and other involved parties ( AA, RAC etc) We are to hear some details about the scheme later this year.. Unfortunately, ICE car drivers will also have to contend with emissions charging schemes, like those already up and running in London and Birmingham. It is fairly common knowledge that Leeds, Oxford, York, Sheffield, Coventry, Bristol, Bath and other towns and cities are looking at ways to clean up the air in town and city centres...... The London scheme has recently increased it's area of coverage by almost 20 times, and the daily cost is to increase to £16. The Birmingham scheme charges £8 per day - payable 7 days a week - if your car or van cannot meet Euro 6 emissions standards. One positive here is that it will strengthen the values of used EV's.......
@@Brian-om2hh hi Brian... Never for an instant did I think they wouldn't apply road charging to ICEs. I just wanted to point out the days of next to free driving for EVs will soon be over.. Like everything once they have enough people swallow the lie they then start taxing the other group.. I'm not against EVs by the way and we may get one soon. (we presently have 4 ICE vehicles for which we are very happy with.. We can see a way to power an EV via PV panels and a home battery so that is interesting.. I don't for a minute think that the UK nor Europe will be able to supply enough electricity for EV charging, heat pumps etc.. As for prices going up on fuel/gas.. This will calm down (my opinion) or they'll have to tax it less.. People can't /won't be buying an EV/heatpump to overcome costs as 98% of the population dont have that level of finances to pay for it.. Nor will they accept no transport and being cold in their homes as okay.. They will riot.. Slowly at first but for sure they won't just say OK.. I do watch the news by the way - not MSM of course..
The big elephant in the room with EVs is initial purchase price and off street parking to charge on your own home charger.. Many folks in the public sector such as NHS support staff and auxiliary teachers who are often on short term contracts already live in rented accomidation will just not be able to get credit to access an EV either through HP or Lease..
Initial purchase price? Nissan Leaf £25k. Mid spec petrol Astra, Golf or Focus £25k. MG5 - Astra sized electric estate car - available brand new at £20k Plus lots of decent used EV's out there now. I've seen used EV's at sub £6k prices.
The White-board of truth! Always good to see it. Informative as always, thanks for the man-maths. Wonder if Octopus will manage to reduce Go back to previous, or if is this a one-way move?
Good analysis. What would also be interesting would be a time comparison if reliant on public charging for that 100,000 miles between ICE and electric vehicles. For example I get 500, closer to 600 but we'll keep it simple, miles from my diesel. So would need to refuel 200 times. At, say, 10 minutes for each stop I would spend 33 hours refuelling. How many hours would it take to charge an EV with the current, flaky, infrastructure in the UK? Yes would love to have a BEV, I am retired and do about 5000 miles annually. I could charge at home taking advantage of Octopus tariff, also have solar panels so on a sunny day could even get 'free' i.e surplus electricity to charge which would be even better value. But, even if my 9 year old were to be written off tomorrow would I buy a BEV? I would like to think so but am not sure.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Obviously, I just said it would be interesting. Not everyone could charge at home or workplace. A 7kW and free ( e.g. Pod Point) top up at the supermarket, is an option but will encourage longer stays blocking the charger just to gain a few miles.
Very interesting and helpful video... I should add that insurance seems to be twice as expensive for an ev, according to a couple of people who have one and I wonder about their depreciation at around 10 years time when their batteries will possibly need replacing...?!
What is the source of the information that leads you to assume insuring an EV costs twice as much, and that the batteries will need replacing in 10 years time?
@@Brian-om2hh As I said, I know of a whole family in Hertfordshire who, individually, changed to evs (an MGZS, a Volvo and a Jaguar) and they each reported much higher insurance than an ice equivalent... As for the batteries, I was merely speculating that batteries are likely to be less efficient after so many years, which would probably put people off buying a ten year old vehicle, the likelihood of which the battery could well need replacing then.
@@Rabscuttle3 Which is possibly why the owner of a 10 year old EV might wish to consider a battery refurbishment rather than a total replacement. As an example, Gloucestershire based Cleveleys Electric Vehicles carried out a refurb on a 10 year old Leaf a while ago (the video of the refurb is on TH-cam). They did the work in 4 hours, and the cost was £600. Complete replacement may not always be necessary.....
I like your stuff - maybe consider some kind of lighting or camera upgrade though. It could make your videos look a little more professional and perhaps attract some more attention
Great analysis as always EVM. A similar video as we head into the potential winter of discontent would be both very intereresting with fuel prices nearly 50p more per litre since your last video and electricity per Kwh at nearly double to when this video was made.
I have owned 3 different Zoe's over nearly 9 years and never paid for my electricity used!
I have workplace charging for free as my company offer it at 22kw. I use Tesco charging which is free at present for 22kw on Pod point and have used the free other chargers at 7kw when I need to overnight. So far I have saved £13000 on petrol as I used to put £30 per week in my fuel car before getting the Zoe's. I'm well pleased.
That is an amazing savings! We’re going on our third year with mainly EV driving. I like the idea of going up to 5, 10, 15+ years etc on electric and calculating all those savings! Hopefully my daughter (who is two now) will never spend much of anything on gas/petrol!
I don't think a Zoe can make use of a 22kw charger.
Most cars are still limited by the onboard inverter.
@@Robert-cu9bm new Zoe’s can have a 50kw charge option
@@sergentcolon1
That's a DC fast charger, not a 22kw home charger.
Home chargers are basically a plug into the mains, they are limited by the speed of the onboard inverter, Normal around 7-11kw.
DC fast chargers have the inverters, so then bypass the onboard and directly charge the batteries.
Hope that helps you understand the difference.
@@Robert-cu9bm I understand the difference perfectly well, I’m an electrician ! He said it was a 22kw charger he used at work. Home chargers are limited to 7kw unless you happen to have a 3 phase supply.
love your videos from across the pond!
Thanks for the video. As you said, prices change so what's true now won't necessarily be the same in a year or two. My longer-term concern is post 2030 when there will no longer need to be incentives to buy EVs, and the amount of petrol and diesel being sold is decreasing, the government will need to recoup the tax losses on liquid fuel and whether it's through road pricing, or VED, or some form of tax on the electricity, EVs will lose any form of cost advantage. So I think we should enjoy it while we can, but not expect it to last.
this is when toll roads will come in how else will the government get their taxes short fall.
If they bring in a price per mile system then it would really be fairer than the current system in the majority of cases. Base it on an MOT and we're away.
Road pricing will be applicable to EV and ICE, so there will still be benefit for EV (especially if you have solar).
Running an EV will be more expensive then an ICE car very soon if the EV driver relies on public charging. I say this based on the current price of public charging along with the efficiency of the EV looks like only a few cars do more then 3.5 on average excluding Tesla and they all take a hit in cold weather which is what we get 9 months of the year. Government need to reduce VAT to 5% on public charging and standardise the price nationally.
My 450,000 mile 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7Di currently costs me 13p per mile in fuel.
I hired an EV van last year... It is a reasonable test as I cannot charge at home so I'd be dependent on public charging.
I hired the EV van for my detailing business.
The EV van allegedly had a 200 mile range.
On a typical day. I drive 150miles per day.
Once I'd loaded the van for work inc the water tank. I was getting 50 miles from a charge.
I had to charge the thing 3 times per day! Thats around 4 hours wasted per day!.
I gave the thing back early as it was costing me money... Had to cancel appointments because the short range and constant need to charge the thing was not workable.
My good day went like this:
Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus.
Charge the van... Yawn.
Do 1st job...
Charge the van.
Do 2nd job
Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work.
What usually happened was:
Take missus to work. She comes home on the bus.
Charge the van... Yawn.
Do 1st job...
Drive to the charge point, wait in a 3 deep que and eventually charge the van.
Cancel 2nd job because of the charging issue.
Charge the van so its ready for taking the missus to work.
If we did any socialising, shopping etc... I'd need to visit the charger again before turning in for the night or we wouldnt have enough juice to take the missus to work in the morning.
Charging the van isnt just the time charging the thing.
Theres the time to drive to the charge point (not many around here).
Waiting for a charger to be available if someone is already there. I have been 5 deep in a que.
They are not good enough. The range is too short and the charge time too long. public charging facilities are sketchy at best.
I live in a city of 320,000 people. My nearest public charge point is 8 miles away, there is just 2 points. The next charge points are across the city some 15 miles away.
I hate card payments. I have lost so many credit cards... I leave it at home, Im not good with cards.. I can buy diesel with cash... I like cash, I know where I am with cash.
Added bonus of the diesel combo.. I can turn the engine on and run my tools off the inverter.
I would hate to think what the range would drop to if I needed to run an inverter off the EV battery.
The local bus company has some electric buses... They are always freezing cold and the drivers are not allowed to turn on the heaters on because it kills the range, the buses are constantly getting delayed or cancelled because of them needing charging.
I really despair for the future.
Absolutely what I'm waiting to start hearing as work trucks/vans get real world testing. Considering my truck only leaves if I'm carrying a load or towing I don't trust any ev range estimates. Hydrogen seems like a good option as long as there's a water tank that dumps the water when you refill with hydrogen to avoid flooding streets. Electric makes sense for a car if you have a daily commute and can plug in at home taking less time than a gas station. I wouldn't want to be stuck trying to find a spot to charge and waiting
They’ll get better in the future but yes right now they are no where near useable for work. I can understand why you don’t like them or can’t get on using them with a 50 mile range once you’ve loaded it up with you kit that just isn’t good at all! What kind of van can’t carry a load and not get near to its full range?? I’ll tell you what van, a bad van that shouldn’t be a van if it can only do 50 odd miles to a charge. Who doesn’t buy a van to fill it up? Lol thats what a van is for so I’m guessing the range figure is based on an unloaded van which is an unfair test whichever way you look at it.
My work van was off the road due to a head gasket, so I hired an electric van for 2 weeks, my results were exactly the same, with all the same frustrations. Electric just doesn't work for my type of business.
You have to have a home charge point.
RAC do a free home charge point installation …..
I’m reading into it. Might have potential
I’m just looking to commute to work - 60miles a day
Are you in the UK or elsewhere? If this is the UK then yes, the future for EV is total and utter bullshit. Unless you have a home charging point, there are no cities with the infrastructure required to own an EV efficiently without high cost AND severe inconvenience.
Look at Europe, they are thriving with EV. The UK is the laughing stock when it comes to being green.
Few people can afford the high cost of buying an EV vehicle and once critical mass has been reached, wait for the taxman to bring the cost per mile back to ICE fuel levels as well as imposing a new road tax charge. It's all hype, nothing else. Oh yes, don't forget we are about to see massive increases in elctriciy costs. I am sticking to my 25 year old XJ6 that cost me £2K and is absolute luxury. I could never beat my current costs by buying an EV.
High cost? I’m just about to get a second EV, and it’s cheaper than equivalent petrol models, and cheaper to run.
Thanks for this. Missed the flat rate only comparison you did in your last video. Maybe on the next one!
Really good breakdown!
It would be really interesting to compare the cost of buying the brand new car as well. My guess, for the most reasonable comparison would be one of the most afforable EVs out there (such as Renault Zoe), and comparing this to the equivalent Renault Clio, for example. You could even factor in average costs of services for that Zoe and Clio over 100K miles.
There is a review like that on the "Geoff Buys Cars" channel. He compares a brand new Fiat 500 petrol v a brand new Fiat 500 EV..👍
I have a Zappi home charger and solar panels - on a nice bright, sunny day the panels generate quite a bit of power, and I get paid for every kW/h that comes off the roof. The Zappi diverts any excess into the car (if I plug it in, of course) rather than send it to the grid. In effect, I'm being paid to drive! Of course, the panels don't generate much in cloudy weather or at night, and I get much more in the Summer than I do in Winter. It still cuts my driving costs though, even though the balance mostly comes from Octopus Go overnight.
You need a storage battery to catch some of that energy so that you can use it yourself, rather than let it go to the grid.
@@Brian-om2hh In the planning stage! Waiting for the supplier to do a survey, then it (hopefully) will get installed.
Thanks for the video. As always, very interesting and informative. Unfortunately most of the off peak ev rates available appear to be matched to higher daytime/ standard rates than otherwise available normally, thereby increasing costs for all other domestic requirements.
I had the opposite experience (although this was back in 2021 so may not be the case now). Whilst I was waiting for Octopus to get my smart meter working and thus put me on Octopus Go, my flat rate for electricity was higher than both the peak and the off-peak Octopus Go rates.
That might be the case with some Providers but Octopus was 15p kw standard rate irrespective of if you took up 5p kw night time tariff or not and that 15p was market competitive
I had a look over my data from my last car (a 59 plate diesel Golf) and my current car (ZS EV).
In the Golf, I covered 60,000 miles, and spent around £7k on fuel in 4 years. Economy was around 48 mpg, which works out at around 11p per mile at an average fuel price of £1.20 odds per litre.
The ZS has covered 15,000 miles since I bought it. Average economy is 3 and a bit m/kWh (under 2 at times in winter, nearly 5 in summer, and one or two commutes broke 6m/kWh). I have to do all public charging, but luckily for now, there's still free rapid charging in my council area, although they quite frequently refuse to talk to the ZS, and I have to resort to other options. Grand total so far is under £150, making it less than a penny per mile 😮😮
59 plate means no loan and interest and no very expensive main dealer services.
ZS EV means loan and interest and expensive main dealer services.
To see if you are saving, you need all the numbers on the drawing board.
@Nice-oscar you're right.
59 plate Golf required a loan of several thousand pounds, had a service interval of 10,000 miles, and broke a gearbox, radiator, suspension, and various other items after purchase (was a 2nd hand buy)
MG is around £17 a month for a service plan. Insurance is the same, tyres have lasted longer than on the Golf, and I'm lucky enough to have no other costs. If that were not the case, the monthly payments would have been roughly £100 per month more than the Golf, and that would still be less than what I would have to spend on Dino juice every month.
@@mcdon2401 just like all cars, golf needed service. Roads are bad. It is always cheaper to keep your current car than paying a loan with interest for a new one! Is just a matter of time, in future ZS will need service too. I am saying this as a taxi driver.
@Nice-oscar absolutely, it will require servicing. And the only reason for paying for a service plan was to maintain the warranty (since I have very little experience with the ev side) otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. Over the last 20 odd years, every single car I've owned until last year has been conventionally powered, serviced by myself (except for specialist work like the gearbox rebuild), and taken to well over 100,000 miles in every instance except once.
The point is, purchasing like for like, an ev will command a premium at present. But under the present conditions, you will recoup costs on fuelling at a considerable rate. This opens the door to various possibilities like being able to take on a higher spec car, paying more to any finance required, or maybe raising your mileage cap on a PCH deal.
As with any other purchase, buyers should do their research before deciding on anything. I spent at least 6 months planning before purchase, it was not a spur of the moment decision.
@@mcdon2401 😎 cool, all the best. I am sticking to my Citroën at the moment
Good comparison. I am wondering if all the ice vehicle’s mpg have changed with the new fuel mix. Meaning the ice cars do less miles as they once did, the fuel cost is even higher and they move up on the whiteboard of truth.
Diesel is OK but who knows how that E10 works out. Probably less mpg and corroded engine internals
Thanks. Having just bought my EV (eNiro) it’s good to see it in black and white (and green). I was going to get an MG ZS Trophy, but the delivery date just keeps slipping, so I cancelled and bought an eNiro from a local dealers stock. Still a great down to earth channel.
E-niro is a great example of a super-efficient EV that EVM is referring to. Good on ya, bc the faster you get an EV the quicker the saving compile. 👍
12 years ago i bought a 2003 vw t4 2.5 tdi for 5 k i run it on veg oil /rapeseed [canola ] i do about 4000 miles ayear , my old t4 vw transporter is as good as the day i bought it it is still worth about the same as when i got it ??? .
if i had an ev for all that time i would be on my second battery pack by now for sure ,
Does show the big difference between home charging and public charging
EVMs figures show public charging on an averagely efficient EV is cheaper than an ICE which manages to average 70 MPG over the whole 100,000 miles ... and that's assuming zero freebie charging at Supermarkets etc. Yup, EV initial cost is higher ... but 2nd hand demand is so strong that resale is good, and thus depreciation is low - and service of ICE over 100K miles will cost quite a bit, and less for EV (or none if you choose to do none, I let my last EV go the last 50K miles with no service and still got 50% trade in at 3.5 years / 95K miles). But, yeah, it favours people who park off-road and charge at home/work
I was gutted yesterday - all 4 chargers at Tesco were being used (they are free!), so I had to charge at home for the first time... Still £6 for the first 300 odd miles isn't bad. Fingers crossed for next time :)
I think your EV charging costs are optimistic now with the latest price rises, my overnight charging rates are going up from 5p to 20p in March, I find very few slow public chargers at my destinations and have only ever used fast chargers.
Go has risen to 7.5p off peak.
Thanks EVM, great comparison.
Very useful info. Thanks EVM!
Enjoyed that, thanks for doing the work of posting. Only trouble is you may be preaching to the converted. Our next-door neighbour was round for a cuppa and told us why she would not get an EV at the moment and it was all the classic stuff. If I sent her this I doubt that she'd take the time to watch. Shame. Dave.
If you’ve not already, could you make a video on the entire costs of running an EV vs ice over 4 years and 48k miles? Including the monthly cost of paying for the car and comparing offers, discounts and incentives? Comparing a vw golf to an id3 would be good. Put a £2k deposit in your hand and walk into a showroom. Depending up whether you came out with an id3 or golf what would total cost be 4 years later. Please include cost of wall box for ev, fuel, insurance, monthly payments, servicing (service plans?) and what equity if any you have at end of 4 years. An id3 with the larger battery would compare well with 400-500 mile range of ice car.
I mostly charge at home... at 5p per kwhr.
4hrs per night on octopus go.
We have an MG ZS EV that only has 163 mile official range.
It covers most of our needs and about 80% of our families miles are done in the EV.. the rest are done in an ordinary diesel Ford.
We average about £1.35 per 100 miles in running cost.
And there lies the problem at this current time.
You need 2 cars to meet a family needs,
That 10% of journeys is where EV fails.
Until they sort that, ICE is here to stay
@Wooly Chewbakker As you point out Wooly, charges are likely to rise soon. But so will petrol and diesel costs. The cost advantages of running an EV will still be there....particularly if you have access to free charging or have your own solar.
A lot depends on your lifestyle. In the 70s we had a Triumph 2.5PI - very exiting but 17mph. Then we had livestock so it was a Land Rover 25mph - but it would go anywhere in any conditions and did the job. Before the e-Niro we had a Toyota Prius which 'did the job'. Today is my 79th birthday so the Kia is bliss and cheap to run. We do have roof panels and Tesco is in the middle of town and free charging so we are very happy.
Just got my first electric car, Nissan Leaf and currently use my local public charger which is less than a 5 minute walk from my house and is currently free to use fast charger. I come home from work plug my car in walk home have my dinner then walk back down an hour later and car is charged, perfect for me.
Reminds me of when the UK Gov wanted people to move from Leaded petrol to Unleaded and made sure the tax was lower on Unleaded so it would incentivise people to jump and now look at the prices once they have a captive audience. The same will happen for EV, there will be a tipping point when the UK Gov says ok, we have fooled enough people to jump now we will reduce the incentives, increase the tax etc etc. Also for example mom's car gets 50mpg+ and hardly any service charges, how much do replacement batteries cost for EV now, again these will reduce over time but are quite expensive at the moment. Sadly you are screwed which ever choice you make as the UK Gov will surely tax you accordingly just like they do with a TV license even though they are supposed to be getting rid of it, will they then put it onto your council tax bill or onto you internet broadband monthly charge rather than get the BBC to fund themselves via advertising and/or subscriptions model !!!!!
Ev's are not reality only for people who have a drive and a charger.
It's just the same as getting everyone into a diesel car and the government insensitives to do so. Hence why the likes of Honda have moved from the UK.
Remember that a EV has more emissions before the first charge than a diesel astra with 200k on the clock the math has already been proven with university studies.
Sticking just to the numbers I think it is worth pointing out that the petrol equivalents to the inefficient EVs tend to be inefficient ICE vehicles - especially with equivalent performance. The other factor is where you drive. If you miles are mostly urban, the efficiency tips to EVs. If those are motorway miles it tips the other way.
The Vauxhall Corsa which has identical models in both ICE and EV variant is not an inefficient ICE vehicle. If you ever want to do a like for like comparison the Corsa and Corsa-E are about as close as you can get to a like for like comparison.
i can get in my car and fill up go from south to scotland and back without filling up again can your ev do that nooooppppppppeeeeeeee it never will.
@@jediknight2350 I accept your point about EV range but the real question is can you drive to Scotland to the south of England without an overnight stop? If you can’t it reduces your argument.
@@normanlazarus1836 but i would have to stop several times in a leccy car so i wouldnt get there in time would i so your idea is void , my car doesnt have to stop i fill up once and go from south to north in one journey no filing , but an ev i would have to stop several times , they dont have the range and there also even more environmentally bad than a normal car , lithium is a poison when the batterys have end of life they cannot be recycled FACT so they will be dumped in a giant pile poisoning the planet as usual.
@@jediknight2350 The inability to recycle Li batteries is not a fact but today it is not economically viable - 2 very different things. As EVs become more prevalent then processed will be developed to make this more viable & less polluting, this is unlikely to be a major problem for 7+ years as the Li batteries have a typical 10 year life expectancy.
To cast a technology aside because it fails to be able to cater for 100% of your requirements is as ridiculous as saying that I wouldn’t consider a vehicle that has less than 8 seats to cater for an extended family even though all the seats would only be used once every 2 years.
Unless your requirements are so specific to rule EVs out of consideration (rather than an emotional hesitance) then, for most households, they make sense especially when most households have more than 1 car.
I do think that EVs are too expensive & that current servicing costs at main dealers are extortionate but those were not issues you raised.
I saw the shell charging at 49p per kw. So cost for 200 miles was £24 which is dearer than my diesel car 🤦
But the average EV driver will only use public charging a few times per year. For around 90% of the time, they will charge at home on cheap rate. You could liken it to buying a bottle of water at a motorway service station for £2. You can fill a glass at home for considerably less cost.... The occasional cost of using public charging pales into insignificance if you charge at home most of the time.
@@Brian-om2hh Hi Brian i can't charge at home, i live in a terraced house.
@@uk_assassin8684 Then you need to get in touch with your Local Authority, because they will almost certainly have access to funding to allow them to install free standing bollard or street light mounted chargers. The funding is also there for your Council to install grids in pavements, to allow a charging cable to pass under the pavement rather than over it. The problem seem to be that many Councils and Local Authorities seem unaware they can access this funding. You may need to request charging at or near your home, to see what they say..... You still would have the option of charging at a supermarket when you buy food. Tesco offer free charging at many of their stores now, as do Sainsburys.
@@Brian-om2hh I had a letter from council saying they're going to put 200 charging points across my borough, which isn't very many to be honest. The chargers at Tesco are a good idea but nowadays are always full, when i shop. I have contacted them also about help for home charging but they still haven't answered. I am really interested in electric vehicles but as it stands only a Tesla seems viable and they are too expensive.
@@Brian-om2hh and Costco
Thanks for another great update video. Evs for the win we saved about 2500£ last year driving ev over 18000 miles good bit from solar for free !
Well done. What about the £1000 it will cost to install a home charger after the grant finishes in April 2021 and how it affects cost for low mileage? And how long will a home charger last and cost of repair? Obviously overall costs are less anyway. Cheers.
£600-£700 is more likely!
Can't remember whether you said in the video ... but did you assume 100% charging efficiency? ie 1Kwh bought is 1KWh to drive with? What are the charging losses for an ev?
My Octopus GO hasn't gone up yet but my figures are - previous car 27mpg, at £6.50 a gallon is £24,074. The replacement Audi eTron 55 has averaged 2.6miles per kW over the last 22000 miles (including winter tyres since November) and 10 months with 35% home charging at 4.73p = £673.08, 65% public charging at an average of 35p per kW is £8,750. Over 100,000 miles, the saving represents £14,650.92. I have no doubt that electricity costs are increasing and will continue to increase but it will take a long time to offset that saving. Also bear in mind that fueling on the motorway, which is, in my opinion, equivalent to public charging, is probably around 12% more than the £6.50 per gallon so, in realty, the difference would be greater. Ofcourse, you could compare a thirsty EV (my eTron) with a more economical diesel but that would not be "like for like" and when buying my eTron, the ICE contenders were similarly thirsty (Audi Q7/Q8). I calculate that home charging off peak, the cost of my EV is around 10% of the previous petrol equivalent and on long trips, charging from home at the start of the journey and then public charging after that, the cost of my EV is just under 30% of the previous petrol equivalent.
The trouble is I think the car manufacturers have pumped up the EV prices to steal your future savings a bit. Which is frustrating. Many manufacturers will go bust eventually or a price war. No need to by a BMW now for the power train as all EVs are similar. Excluding tesla the germa. Brands are premium but not as much as they think for the price. Of course if you like the car you get it. I am waiting for my car to die so I can go EV.
Did you mention solar charging and if you have a battery then can charge fom solar and or cheap overnight tariff
Great video. Not sure if I missed it, but what was the price of fuel you used to get the overall cost?
£1.47
Any thoughts on the new price cap going up over 50% in April
...and potentially again in September/October. Will be interesting to see how this changes the figures, though I still expect EVs to come off cheaper.
@@jaymiethomas only when not factoring purchase price . I have looked into a ev but working nights with a 1 hr each way commute and lack of charging at work I very much doubt even with my own drive an ev would be worth the extra cost over a ice car
@@s9enny That may be true now, but at some point governments will add even more levies and taxes onto ICE cars to (eventually) discourage their sale. Here in the UK, new ICE cars will currently be outlawed in 2030 and hybrids in 2035.
@@s9enny It depends on the EV you choose. A new Nissan Leaf is £25k, which is roughly the same cost as a new mid spec petrol Astra, Golf or Focus. The MG5 Astra sized electric estate car can be had with a 7 year warranty for £20k. Plus there is the used market too. I've seen EV's for sale at sub £6k prices....
Good video. Only issue I have is the overnight rate will not be 7p for new customers in the future. Current prices at that time of night are around 18p /KWh wholesale so the energy providers are losing money as is. For newer customers, I would assume the overnight price would be around 15p KWh which is double what you are paying. And this is based off long term power contracts on the wholesale market, an expected increase in energy prices in October again and the bill that is left outstanding for 27 energy providers going bust. Even so, once you double the overnight rate it is still way cheaper to run so long as you have your own driveway.
BTW you can't factor Road Tax in anyway, for example my dad bought 1.6 Volvo diesel that cost him £4,000, it does 50mpg and it costs £0 in Road Tax.
You can with anything new.
Just checked my Octopus Go account and it still says my 12:30 to 4:30 rate is 5p. With the e-Niro in that 4 hours with my Ohme charger I can put 112 miles on the car which means for most of the time I never need to use public charging. I couldn't be more happy.
Yes, same here. Still 5p between 12.30 to 04.30. Two nights at that normally gives me enough juice for over a week's driving.
Time is peoples biggest fear.
Range anxiety the second biggest fear.
Charging point third biggest fear.
Once those factors are addressed it’s the en$ for commuter ICE.
I think you hit the nail on the head at the end. Tax. It’s coming for home charging of course. The numbers will not add up soon and I hear a few interesting schemes are being proposed in the Civil service for reclaiming that home charging money pit.
They already take the most money out of your electricity bill through taxes.
I suspect the public charging rate of 30p is a bit unreasonable - the typical ones I see are more like 35p and I imagine they'll start creeping up. And there don't seem to be many off-peak options other than Octopus Go so the 7.5p thing is likely not to be a realistic offpeak differential - and I suspect the gap will thus close a bit more on that. Nothing wrong with your evaluation and your reasoning for the pricing seems fine and fair enough, but I do very much suspect the gap will continue to reduce even with higher fuel pricing.
35p is rapid, you wouldn’t use exclusively that if you couldn’t charge at home.
@@ElectricVehicleMan are prices cheaper up North? The three main reliable rapid chargers are InstaVolt (45p), Osprey (40p), BP Pulse (38p/44p as a registered user, 40p/50p as contactless). The last ditch efforts GeniePoint 42p and PodPoint is 28p (where there might be one/two chargers for the supermarket.. with one permanently broken)
@@aaaa-ig6sc If you couldn’t charge at home and had to rely on them then you’d use a subscription service which makes it cheaper as you’d be a heavy user.
And again, they’re rapids, fast chargers are more commonly used as destination chargers and are cheaper to charge from.
@@ElectricVehicleMan which subscription service? There's BP Pulse (28p for 7kW, 32p for 50kW, 38p for 150kW) but you really wouldn't want to rely solely on that, it's a third backup choice if there's no InstaVolt or Osprey (both of which contactless). If you've done (28+32)/2 you really need some of the 38p, 40p, 45p blended into that for reality.
I use CPS chargers and it's £1.60 connection change + £0.15 per kWh for both fast and rapid so depends where you live
Brilliant vlog. Great comparison. I have home charger on nite rate. Do you have a second charger at home to charge up during daytime ? I’ve looked at this and can’t find an answer and noticed you charge up at night and occasionally during the day ? Best wishes
It's the pricing that changes, depending on your supplier and the tariff you're on. The night rate is around a quarter of the day rate. You don't need 2 separate chargers.
Great analysis as always. 👍🔋
Is comparison purely on fuelling useful, though? Have you done a vid taking into account other costs?
In the past, yes. But fuel and electric is very different now.
You cannot compare two things with massive variables. Which EV, which ICE? Guessing at 10 year maintenance costs and depreciation.
Thanks for your clear explanation.
What would be the average MPKWH be for a Nissan Leaf 2019? Currently driving a VW Golf TDI averaging 38MPG with 330k on the clock!
Georgia Power charges $0.014 USD per KW for overnight charging. That's $1.00 for 200 miles in my 70kw tesla model Y.
Thank you for breaking this all down for us. I’ve always been more interested in how pricing for electrical fuel & infrastructure will be negotiated especially as industry and government revenues move to take account of the huge increase in electricity. Income from fuel duties for the state alone will mean that electricity will become more heavily taxed than now. The price we pay for a product is often dependent not on the cost of achieving the product but all the other revenue that’s raised in its sale. I continue to hold that electricity will replace fossil fuel but will eventually cost the same. At present ev ownership is in a golden age as far as cost to the owner is concerned. Cheers.
The majority of the cost in lecy is government charges.
Profit is tiny
A big charge is a green levy for that "cheaper" renewables.
Thanks for your in-depth analysis, you obviously invested a lot of time and effort before producing this video.
It gives us cause to think much more deeply about EV ownership versus even very efficient ICE vehicles. 🖖
Very fair evaluation, although definitely giving the benefit of any doubt to the ICE cars. It would be interesting to know what value motorists would put on the environmental impact, which is difficult to quantify. Personally I went to EV for ecological reasons and consider the long term savings as a bonus. Sadly I cannot reap the full benefit of commuting by EV as I have retired, but I'm not going back to work for the joy of commuting more cheaply.
Zero is the value I put on the environmental benefit. Ignoring that it has no direct financial impact on me, the environmental impact of a vehicle is very hard to calculate and EVs don't get away with it as they're not that great for the environment in things like batteries or manufacturing either. But regardless, they have no impact on the financial cost of ownership.
@@SquirreliciousMe It has already been proven that EVs are much better for the environment than ICE cars. There is a study.
The train is of course the best but not always available.
@@starvictory7079 I've not seen whatever study you refer to, but the whole lifecycle of an EV needs to include all elements - eg the vehicle production, batteries, disposal afterwards, and the environmental impacts of things like the actual energy used to produce them. Just like the way an ICE is compared. But either way, it has no financial value to me in basic terms regardless.
Environmental impacts are a public rather than private consideration. Most private individuals don’t consider the impacts of their choices on anyone beyond themselves.. They just look at the numbers presented to them on the day of making a decision.
It’s up to governments to apply appropriate taxes and restrictions to make sure that environmental impacts are properly priced into the costs that you are presented with.
@@starvictory7079 What study? Never seen one that states a true account of EV ownership. Like green electricity, never mentions the process pre production.
So i have a VW golf 1.5 petrol that does 30mpg around town and 55mpg on a run and i have been offered a kona electric, i have no home charger but i can charge at work evey day, i would only need the public chargers on my 4 weeks holiday times is it a good bet for me
Did you account for charging losses which amount to 10%-15%, and vampire drain when standing still?
Did you watch the whole video?
@@ElectricVehicleMan yes, I did. Perhaps I missed it.
Last few mins.
I'm not convinced that the cost of public charging will come down. Suppliers such as BP and Shell have realised that its more profitable than selling fuel, as I am sure have others.
It costs a round 50k to install one charger.... Take a lot of charges to become profitable.
I doubt many turn any profit yet
I'm currently trying to decide my next family car. Another ICE, Phev or full EV but my £40k budget for maximum 6 month old car limits the EV (ideally need a range of 250-300 miles). My current deal with EDF is fixed until July but when that expires my electric costs are going to sky rocket. Realistically I would say to at 30p/kwh maybe more? so would I be best looking at the public charging costs in this example to compare what would be my home charging costs in which case the advantage of EV over a good hybrid is less? Sorry new to EV so still learning.
On the right tariff, it would be the price I've shown.
@@ElectricVehicleMan but will those tariffs be available in July and that's what concerns me. Thanks for the reply BTW. Just found your page and love it including the house stuff.
@@jamesrotherham2342 100%
Free public charging is great, but do you think it puts off anyone wanting to put in chargers on a commercial basis. The charging infrastructure needs to improve, but who would pay £1,000's for installing in a car park say, for it only to be used when Tesco's are full, because you plan to charge enough to cover costs!
We put 10 chargers in at work (50 employees, currently only 2 EVs and one of those is mine ...). Local authority paid 50% of the cost ... we were having some other electrical work done at the same time anyway ... when we go on long trips we stop at Hotels and Restaurants that have chargers, 7kW charger is about £2 an hour so not much "discount" on what I spend in their shop / restaurant.
Hello, Can Ya'll do me a solid? I'm in the US and started to look a EVs. You know what would be the point I would get an EV kinda thing. I have been playing the numbers against my car that I have now. Would someone break down the numbers to get the answers to the 30 on the gas side and the 3.75 on the Ev side, for the 100,000 miles and 30p for all the Ev charging....thanks
When EVs start getting taxed to cover the lack of tax on fuel all bets are off
Wrong. The Government are to introduce a system of road tolls to replace lost fuel duty once a tipping point is reached. If you somehow think that taxation on greener or cleaner forms of transport will exceed the taxation on polluting ICE vehicles, you're dreaming. At least you have the optiorsn of producing some of your own "fuel" via solar panels if you drive an EV. You can't produce your own petrol or diesel. In any case, the Government ought to see a considerable rise in the amount of money in their coffers once they cease subsidising the oil industry with billions of taxpayers money annually.
Love to see a breakdown based on 40k (typical 4 year PCP) but including car costs/expenses/tax/insurance etc
Doing that now. My conclusion - get a 2nd hand version of same car that insurance is gonna write off. The Toyotas go on to 280k miles - that would be cheapest for me. Not necessarily best for planet. But unless ordinary folks get priced out of car ownership or it gets subsidy then EV isn't as viable as it needs to be. And I don't believe it is the best tech. Especially as there seems to be limited space / weight saving ... not even including the battery.
I compared a plug-in Prius v standard Prius ~10 years ago.
I don’t still have all the details, but assuming electricity was always FREE and PHEV was always driven on battery, I would have had to do 100k pa for 10 yrs to break even.
If you are a Company car user your BIK is 1% and the Company claims back the full purchase price allowance in the first year and if your profits are not high enough you can offset the loss for further years and you can still pay off for the car, it does not have to be paid for in the first year
Have you factored in the drop in miles especially when it’s cold in an ev , we have two Ev,s and can do a journey of say 30 miles but the range has gone down by 40 miles.
Average mpkWh is over the year. Just pick whichever applies to you.
What about the issue of having to change the whole battery pack when you’ve charged so much you only end up getting a few miles before it runs out? It’s the same for all battery powered objects, granted a combustion engine requires servicing at regular intervals…what about the time it takes to charge a battery car in comparison to refilling a petrol/diesel car. Time is precious.
How often do you think the battery pack lasts?
@@ElectricVehicleMan Over time these battery packs become less efficient in the same way a mobile phone does. Batteries degrade over time as they’re charged and discharged and won’t hold the same capacity as when they’re new. So the answer is how long is a piece of string…but realistically about 10 -20 years if you use your car to the point it requires a full charge. People won’t do that as they’ll be concerned they won’t have enough range left and will plug it at every opportunity. All batteries get some sort of memory which will ultimately reduce the max range of the car leading to more and more charging. As the second hand market increases people who can’t afford a new car will get stung for the price of a whole new set of batteries.
@@ElectricVehicleMan LiFePO batteries lose ~2-3% capacity per annum depending on charge profile. After 8 years they will be at about 80% original capacity.
But there are other issues:, Such as:
- Rapid charging kills them, fast,
- They CANNOT charge below 0c.
- They lose up to 50% capacity temporarily when their temperature goes above ~40C
Batteries like to be charged slowly (less than 1C) and discharged more rapidly (up to 3 or even 5 C) - C being the capacity in Amp/Hours
Cars need to be charged rapidly and discharged slowly....which means their use case profile is terrible for batteries
@@Pabz2030 That’s why thermal management exists.
@@Pabz2030 That’s why thermal management exists.
We can’t get the octopus go as they have said they sent taking on new customers which means we are currently fixed at 20.5p and it’s Likely to be 40p.
My AMG avg’d 22 mpg on shell SUL, I’m a 100% home charged at 5p/KWh (I have 12 months left on 5p tarrif) how much am I saving? Avg 310Wh per mile
22mpg sucks and Shell SUL is expensive, but if you actually want to know:
5p/kWh @ 310wh/mile = 1.55p/mile.
RAC says SUL is average 158.11/l right now, Shell is probably more expensive but we'll go with that.
158p/l = 718p/gallon so 22mpg = 32.67p/mile.
So over 100,000 miles you would save more than £30,000.
@@NickFoster thank you, 22mpg in town for a C63s is not bad
@@NickFoster 165.9 for shell v power this week…
Very informative and entertaining as usual - thanks - Just a quick question regarding Octopus Energy - As Octopus promote themselves as predominantly using renewable sources - how do they justify the increased cost of electricity - has the cost of sunshine and wind increased ?
They get charged wholesale prices, like the rest.
octopus.energy/blog/what-drives-wholesale-energy-prices/
Ok, I'm guilty for skipping a bit of this and might have missed my points I'm about to make.
I do have a balanced view of electric cars, they just don't beat ICE cars yet, on many levels.
Don't forget, the modern ICE vehicle has been refined over 150yrs + and EV's have a long way to go.
Maintenance. Yes, I do my own, change oil in one of my cars every 3 months at a cost of around £55. It's also HIGHLY efficient at burning fuel, averaging 21mpg. I know, makes the electric option look good, eh!
However, 100k in an EV...., one word. Batteries! They'll need replacing, we all know it, don't argue. A cost between 10k and 25k. I've seen cars that are 10yrs old, worth 12k scrapped as they need new batteries at a MASSIVE COST TO THE ENVIRONMENT!
This needs to be factored in, in long term ownership and "savings".
Fuel, yes, ICE fuel is highly taxed AND VAT'd and is rising rapidly. So again, I agree, EV comes out on top.
However, new build houses are having charge points built into them and I believe this is another new rule. Great idea. There is a but, but, the EV charge point has to run through a separate consumer unit. This will inevitably dispense electricity at a higher rate, i.e, cost more! (stealth tax) because of course, the economy is losing 80% surcharge on the litre of fuel you don't buy. I'm not kidding look it up.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to run to work in a mini EV, nice and efficient etc, but I ain't giving up my fun factor ICE cars when they make me smile so much!
Smile factor, not smug factor.
Good video though, highly flawed in my opinion.
Thanks for reading!
ps, none of my 5 cars in the family get more than 30mpg (yes, I know, making it look good for the EV smug factor haha)
Batteries will not need replacing after 100k!
And you forget that electric vehicles were around and operating when ICE one were invented. Too bad you've followed the same cult that bought out the tech 150 years ago and shelved it to sell oil. Trains, trolleys and the like were also bought up and sent to scrapyards to get people to buy more cars.... AND BUY MORE OIL! Do some reading.
Does a diesel car need oil changes? Airfilters, brake jobs?
The brakes would need attention periodically, but that's about it.
the 2.5 is a taycan. the 3 is likely a leaf and the 5 is my ioniq.
now add it the additional costs of petrol over an ev.
100,000 miles of petrol car you have apx 10 services spark plugs, oil filter, oil, likely need a new tailpipes etc. and road tax.
and you need to look at an ev not needing to be off road while these servicing being done.
And all this with virtually no servicing needed on some brands like Tesla who insist brake pads (due to regeneration on motors) will last 120k miles and servicing is not needed until 83k? Although they offer safety checks and still need an mot, it's a lot cheaper once you've got one but the initial outlay may be more. At least with this I can consider the saving in fuel to offset against the higher monthly repayments which many will do too I believe 👍
Great video however if you are going to argue the cost of electricity is going to go up by at least double then the cost of public charging is also going to have to go up significantly in the not too distant future as well thus I would suggest your public charging numbers are far too low right now. What do you think?
They’ve already had recent significant price rises.
Am I right in thinking that it isn’t the price of electric which is going up, but the cost of natural gas. I don’t think that the cost of wind and solar electricity has increased. The gridserve service station in Braintree gets its electricity from solar and wind, so it’s charging prices shouldn’t increase.
@@Richard482 perhaps but as we’ve seen with the fuel companies for decades, the wholesale cost is not always reflected at the pumps. The motorist is an easy target so why should EV drivers not expect to be fleeced in the same way as we transition away from oil?
@@where_is_mark But you are being fleeced at 3p at home as opposed to 20p on the forcourt
An argument often used is how will the HMRC recover lost duty on fuel. But it’s worth bearing in mind that the oil industry is heavily subsidised. That money has to come from somewhere, so I’m not convinced duty and taxes on fuel are ring fenced for inland revenue alone.
One might hope that a point will be reached when there is no longer any need to subsidise the oil industry with billions of pounds of taxpayers money annually. Perhaps that might make up the shortfall in lost fuel duty?
I am on octopus 20p rate 24h a day. But its a special Avro rate.
How about maintenance. I do my own maintenance and basic engine and drive train repair work myself. I can easily order inexpensive parts online and have them delivered. I've driven the same vehicle for 30 years now. Will I be able to maintain my EV vehicle myself and drive it for decades or are these cars like smart phones where you have to keep throwing them out and buying a new one, and what do you do when all of the charging stations are occupied, do you call your job and say sorry not going to be able to make it today, I'm going to need to wait in a parking lot today for access to charging I'm in the queue and should be able to charge in about 4 hours.
Charging in 4 hours? What planet are you on? There are now chargers out there which can add 75 miles of range in 5 minutes.
Unfortunately those who can't afford not to watch this video have left a long time ago 🤷♂️... you are preaching to the choir. Great explanation, good use of white board ... my father used to say "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
Talking about cheaper servicing costs. I've just had my 4 year old Zoe serviced by Renault. I bought it just under a year ago. It cost me £524. I have never paid that much for a service on any car and I've been driving for over sixty years. I think you ought to revise the servicing costs.
Get it serviced elsewhere. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles would I'm sure service a Zoe for less. They operate a fully mobile service, covering most of the UK...... They even have a TH-cam channel.......
@@Brian-om2hh Thanks for the information. I will definitely check them out.
I think you have been had over. I only paid £230 for a main Jaguar dealer down from £330 as I played one off against the other
It’s worth bearing in mind that the EV’s are not subject to any fuel duty equivalent - yet! Therefore it could be speculated that sooner or later, EVs will be subject to something like per mile road charging. Unlikely this year, but the treasury are reviewing options, 2023 or 2024 could be on the cards.
That will change the economics a lot. At this stage there’s no suggestion of how this will be implemented, but I reckon that vehicle weight at the very least will be a component in setting road charging rates.
Still watching with great interest how you can tax an ev on fuel. I can sort of see how to do it if you are public charging and maybe home charging but the components needed for home charging would be very difficult to regulate. Throw in solar charging and it gets very hard. The only other option is road pricing, but that really gets tough with the local authority grants and how is dish out the taxes. Road pricing would need to be consistent across the whole network to cover the vehicles that never go near major roads . Finally there is the move to use electricity for farming and building equipment, again how to recover the cost there . The only way it could work is on a sliding scale based on miles covered and size of vehicle replacing the existing road fund licence scheme and requiring mile figures to be submitting and a centralised per kWh consumption figure based on model and make. Sounds like a nightmare to implement.
@@johnrush3596 you can’t tax on fuel, but you can on mileage. Say for example that vehicles up to 2 tonnes are taxed at 5p/mile. So once a year for the first three years you go onto the DVLA website, type in your reg and vin number. Enter mileage, and then your tax bill is calculated. After 3 years you use the mileage data from MOT test results, so the whole scheme is just an extension of a database that already exists.
If you are dishonest, then that dishonesty catches up with you when you sell the car before 3 years, or when you get your car MOT’ed.
Now that’s an easy implementation. If you want to be clever, then you have varying charges according to what road you’re driving on and at what time of day. That way, you can discourage driving on congested roads at certain times of the day. You could do that with GPS trackers, or ANPR cameras. That’s quite hard to do, there’s a lot of time and investment needed to setup the monitoring network, but it could alleviate congestion if done right.
@@johnrush3596 That's what smart meters are for.
Smart meters can’t see what’s using what, only what the house is using.
@@ElectricVehicleMan They can... From UK.gov ... Households have control over who can access their detailed energy consumption data and for what purposes, except where this is required for regulated purposes (for example, billing).
At the moment the government doesn't care but when EV charging tax is implemented, they will.
Does the cheaper night time charging price mean you pay a higher rate for your daytime electricity as used to be the case with a night storage heater tariff.
Not really. Maybe a little.
Not with Octopus
I agree with your figures though I worked it out differently. I only charge 12.30-4.30am on 5p at present and that 5p x 7kw x 4 hrs = £1.40 divided by 70 miles is 2p mile which will increase to 3p mile after my increase. If I drove an equivalent petrol SUV auto it would do 30mpg @ £6.50 gallon = 21p mile. I do 7000 miles a year, so £140 v £1,470 so an annual fuel saving of £1,330 and even when taking into account the 50% increase to 7.5p kw the annual saving is still £1,260 then annual VED of £155 after the (first year £1,335) = £1,450, then service every 2 years at £600 v £300 divided by 2 = £150 saving a year = £1,600 and we wont even go to "No congestion charge" or £1 for 4 hours parking in London v ???? depending on where you park. The difference in cost from a reasonably powered F-Pace is around £55,000 new v I-Pace @ £70,000 but I would bet over 3/4 years you would negate that extra premium. I realise these are both expensive cars, but I would think it is pro-rata on smaller less expensive makes
The biggest negative with EV is not range anxiety, but; will the charger work anxiety, but that is improving. I have had my EV for 3 years next month and I love it
Interesting video, but as others have pointed out you pay a premium for EV and with a typical 10k a year mileage (with Covid its been less for me), its only going to be 1k a year saving. The calculation really needs to show the cost of home EV charging at flat rate tariff, 30p/kWh. I switched from Economy 7 to flat rate some years ago because it was just *simpler* - no arguments about putting the washing machine or dishwasher on overnight, and the flat rate is in all cases cheaper than the day rate. So Economy 7 is going to cost you more unless you can shift a significant amount of your electricity usage to overnight, or you install a home battery that’s charged overnight
The public charging part is at 30p.
And to be fair, it ain’t complicated to plug a car in and it starts charging at the cheap time. It’s really that simple.
@@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for your reply. I think you missed my point, that I like lots of people have single flat rate electricity supply so there is no cheap overnight charging for me. I suggested that the comparison should have included flat rate electricity at 30p/kWh, maybe blended with some public charging. You've priced 85% of your charging at cheap rate which isn't what many people have. Yes of course if you have a split tarif then charge overnight, but you have to weigh up the cost impact of all other daytime electricity (cooking, heating, lights etc) now being charged at a more expensive daytime rate unless you've got a storage battery to take advantage of the cheap overnight electricity.
So saying it's a more complex comparison for many people
@@ElectricVehicleMan great video. My only comment is that 7.5kw hour by 4 hours cheap rate is only 30kw into the car (less the loss) so as soon as you do >75miles(ish) a day then you are at the expensive rate. I am assuming your 85% of home charging is at the cheap rate is based on the fact your only put >30KW into your car a day 5% of the time. Thought you could make that clearer next time it only really works if you don’t do a load of daily miles. If you do loads of miles 3 days a week but no miles 4 days (as you work at home for 2days and don’t drive at weekends) it’s way more expensive than splitting them evenly over a week!
@@welshmark79 Who does over 75 miles per day several days a week.
That’s what we call ‘an exception’.
How can I possibly do this for every possible eventually!
@@welshmark79 The average daily UK commute is 20.8 miles, and the average daily UK non commuting journey is around 9 miles. Like EVM stated, most don't drive 75 miles per day!
So in America the going price is about $0.40 Kw fast charging and my home is $.22 Kw. I don’t have different rates at different times, and I live in an area where electricity is expensive.
Fuel is as high as £1.60 now and my 2 nearest chargers are a 5-6 minute drive away one is a 5kwh at 30p the next 50kwh at 45p I don’t have the option to charge from home. Ev’s don’t work for me unfortunately
I look at the electricity costs and I realise I got lucky with when I fixed my contract, I hope its gone down a bit in 2 years time when my contract ends, but as you say, unless something major happens to change the market, 15p/kWh is gone 😥
Apologies, I’m a retired accountant but did you add 5% VAT to the charging costs?
If you are VAT registered can you claim that back and don't forget BIK of 1% and full value claim in 1st year against profits
@@mikejoseph425 Indeed, but the point is that most private motorists are not VAT registered.
People forget that in the uk about half the price of fuel is tax, so without taxing either petrol works out slightly cheaper, but you really think there going to give up taxing vehicles
I take it you didn’t watch the whole video.
If i use my vehicle for work use ,and earn £20 a hour it takes me 15 mins to fuel a petrol and up to a hour for a EV ,so earning potential lost compares to £5 for a petrol and £20 for a EV per hour not being able to work .Time is money.
Assuming you only charge during working days. Mine charges when I’m either working and it’s parked up or asleep!
Unlike petrol, you don’t need to stand next to it when it’s refuelling.
You need to factor in the cost of fast food consumption every time you go for a moderately long drive and have to sit for hours waiting for your vehicle to charge - if you're lucky enough to find a public charger of course
It is not about what is cheap or not.It is about what you like and what you need.My diesel can run over 700 km and can get fuel quickly and don’t have to wait 90 minutes to recharge or perhaps longer if I can find a recharge point.When the Hydro-electric car comes in large numbers with Hydro stations enough I would comsider changing.
Who said it takes 90 mins?
I spend less time fuelling than you do.
The EV position gets even better if you have solar PV or live very close to a free public charger. Of course solar is a bit tricky during winter months but the investment does become more cost-effective as the price of electricity goes up.
Agreed I have solar panels so my 2016 Leaf is charged practically for free spring/Summer and currently I do take advantage of free chargers at my local Tesco ( whilst I shop there and shops local to Tesco ) .
I did wonder 4 years ago if I was making the right decision in buying solar, but recent events have justified my purchase.
Not a chance will your home Pv provide enough power to put anything more than a few miles of charge into your car.
A 4kW Pv system will maybe produce 15kW of excess power in the summer so @3Miles/kWh you will be able to put about 40-45 miles of charge into your car via your solar each day, at best.
What about the cost of replacement batteries? Will the battery degrade over time and the High initial cost of the EV?
Most of the EV manufacturers offer 100,000 mile warranties on the batteries but the real lifespan of a modern EV battery with decent thermal management is more like 200k-300k miles, ie. more than the lifespan of the car itself. People really don't need to panic about having to replace EV batteries any more if they're not buying an ancient second-hand Leaf.
@@NickFoster And even if they should buy an ancient secondhand Leaf, it is actually one of the most "fixable" EV's around. There are already a number of independent EV specialists who can (and already do) refurbish the battey packs on older model Leafs (Leaves?). Cleveleys Electric Vehicles, based in Gloucestershire, in particular posted a TH-cam video of a 10 year old Leaf getting a battery refurbishment. The work took 4 hours, and the cost was £600. So around the same cost as typical clutch swap perhaps? And certainly nothing like some of the silly EV battery scare stories you often hear. Some would have you believe the battery must be replaced after 5 or 6 years, at around the same cost as an Apollo moonshot. But of course most of these silly rumours are from people who have never even sat in an electric car, let alone owned or driven one.....
High mileage drivers will replace their cars more often but for most who do 4-6000 p.a. you are talking about 20 years of use before the battery drops below 70% efficiency, so it is wise to buy an EV with a longer range than you actually need and I don't know anyone who has kept a car over 7 years let alone 20 years
We need another update since ukraine and April price cap
This is still relevant as it was based on the price cap.
@@ElectricVehicleMan ok,ta
In Victoria Canada 87 octane is $1.659/L, and the max residential rate for electricity is $0.142/kwhr.
2001 Ford Focus ZTS $0.123/km (driven for 350,000 km, that's $43k in fuel for a $20k car)
2004 Chev Suburban $0.25/km (driven for 350,000 km that's $87k5 in fuel for a $42k truck)
2020 Kia Soul EV $0.023/km (driven so far 65,000 km that's $1k5 in electricity, for a $41k car)
I spent more than double the purchase cost of the gasoline vehicles in fuel.
I literally drove the Suburban to the scrap yard and bought the Kia. The Ford is patiently waiting in the garage for the Kia to break down.
For a real apples to apples comparison though, the exact same Kia Soul ICE gets nearly identical mileage to the Ford, and the EV was $10k more after my EV discounts. That's 100,000 km to pay the difference in fuel cost to break even. That's about 3 years for me.
Really good breakdown! I'm waiting for my first EV, and this video confirms I made the right decision.
I remember doing a spreadsheet before my Taycan arrived looking at the running costs. 7500 miles a year and all charging on Octopus go night rate - something I have been doing - results in yearly running charging cost of less than £250. Happily, the results were similar. If I still had my Panamera that would not have covered two tanks of petrol!
But tens of thousands saved in the vehicle cost.
No savings are made until the cross over point of premium Vs cheaper fuel
@@Robert-cu9bm didn’t buy it to save money, that’s just a consequence.
@@GWAIHIRKV
Clearly you don't buy a taycan because you care about saving money.
You compared the savings to your panamera. My point was there are no savings for the taycan between the two until the cross over point.
@@Robert-cu9bm Not so, look at the tax savings if a Company vehicle
@@mikejoseph425
There's still a cross over point... exactly what I said.
Enjoy the savings while you can.. Road pricing per mile , additional taxes for EV charging at home are both coming.. Also don't rely on free duty for your EV for much longer.. They'll be taxing them soon.. Slowly at first but for sure they will... The government will not accept the lost revenue from fossil fuel excise duty. They'll go hunting EV owners as soon as they feel EV ownership levels are high enough to start chipping them..
Only a home charging, solar energy generating person, with plenty panels correctly orientated, living in the SW of England will keep seeing decent savings with his EV.. Watch out also for Octopus going bust if their tariffs remain low.. They can't make any money buying energy to resale like that at present wholesale prices..
EV maintenance costs is where good savings can be made.. As long as the battery packs and electric motor remain reliable..
EV insurance is a lot more...
Smart meters are apparently able to shut down car charging on newer home EV chargers.. They plan to have this ability to protect the national grid... Something else that needs to be considered if choosing an EV...
Like anything the savings don't stay for long once the government and the energy users change the rules..
And you somehow think that the cost of using petrol and diesel will just stay the same? Don't you watch the news? The Government are to introduce a system of road tolls once the tipping point is reached. This will be payable by *all* motorists, not just electric car drivers. The basis of a working system has already been thrashed out by the Government and other involved parties ( AA, RAC etc) We are to hear some details about the scheme later this year.. Unfortunately, ICE car drivers will also have to contend with emissions charging schemes, like those already up and running in London and Birmingham. It is fairly common knowledge that Leeds, Oxford, York, Sheffield, Coventry, Bristol, Bath and other towns and cities are looking at ways to clean up the air in town and city centres...... The London scheme has recently increased it's area of coverage by almost 20 times, and the daily cost is to increase to £16. The Birmingham scheme charges £8 per day - payable 7 days a week - if your car or van cannot meet Euro 6 emissions standards. One positive here is that it will strengthen the values of used EV's.......
@@Brian-om2hh hi Brian... Never for an instant did I think they wouldn't apply road charging to ICEs. I just wanted to point out the days of next to free driving for EVs will soon be over..
Like everything once they have enough people swallow the lie they then start taxing the other group..
I'm not against EVs by the way and we may get one soon. (we presently have 4 ICE vehicles for which we are very happy with..
We can see a way to power an EV via PV panels and a home battery so that is interesting..
I don't for a minute think that the UK nor Europe will be able to supply enough electricity for EV charging, heat pumps etc..
As for prices going up on fuel/gas.. This will calm down (my opinion) or they'll have to tax it less.. People can't /won't be buying an EV/heatpump to overcome costs as 98% of the population dont have that level of finances to pay for it.. Nor will they accept no transport and being cold in their homes as okay.. They will riot.. Slowly at first but for sure they won't just say OK..
I do watch the news by the way - not MSM of course..
One of the best parts about being old is that I will probably die before the big increases for EV arrive
The big elephant in the room with EVs is initial purchase price and off street parking to charge on your own home charger.. Many folks in the public sector such as NHS support staff and auxiliary teachers who are often on short term contracts already live in rented accomidation will just not be able to get credit to access an EV either through HP or Lease..
Initial purchase price? Nissan Leaf £25k. Mid spec petrol Astra, Golf or Focus £25k. MG5 - Astra sized electric estate car - available brand new at £20k Plus lots of decent used EV's out there now. I've seen used EV's at sub £6k prices.
The White-board of truth! Always good to see it. Informative as always, thanks for the man-maths. Wonder if Octopus will manage to reduce Go back to previous, or if is this a one-way move?
I used to travel 30000 miles per year and charged at a 22kw free car charger at sainsburys in exeter- pretty much free
Good analysis. What would also be interesting would be a time comparison if reliant on public charging for that 100,000 miles between ICE and electric vehicles. For example I get 500, closer to 600 but we'll keep it simple, miles from my diesel. So would need to refuel 200 times. At, say, 10 minutes for each stop I would spend 33 hours refuelling. How many hours would it take to charge an EV with the current, flaky, infrastructure in the UK?
Yes would love to have a BEV, I am retired and do about 5000 miles annually. I could charge at home taking advantage of Octopus tariff, also have solar panels so on a sunny day could even get 'free' i.e surplus electricity to charge which would be even better value. But, even if my 9 year old were to be written off tomorrow would I buy a BEV? I would like to think so but am not sure.
You’re not stood there when an EV is charging at home so you wouldn’t waste anytime at all.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Obviously, I just said it would be interesting. Not everyone could charge at home or workplace. A 7kW and free ( e.g. Pod Point) top up at the supermarket, is an option but will encourage longer stays blocking the charger just to gain a few miles.
Another good video but can you show me the cars that do 50 ,60 & 70 mpg it would be also a realistic test if you also did diesel as well as petrol👍
I’ve showed MPG, that applies to diesel or petrol. Just put the car on the nearest figure.
I used to have a Skoda Citigo that would do 60mph on a run and 48mpg round town
the other thing you didnt factor in was, how much was the additional cost of off peak daily charge 4hrs, i'm going to guess an extra £120.00 per yr.
I did factor that in, it’s all explained in the vid.
It wasn’t all off peak charging.
What happens if you remove taxes? As folks convert to EVs how will the government make up the loss of tax revenue?
Probably charge per mile I suspect. For all cars.
Very interesting and helpful video... I should add that insurance seems to be twice as expensive for an ev, according to a couple of people who have one and I wonder about their depreciation at around 10 years time when their batteries will possibly need replacing...?!
Insurance isn’t twice as expensive and batteries won’t need replacing after 10 years.
What is the source of the information that leads you to assume insuring an EV costs twice as much, and that the batteries will need replacing in 10 years time?
@@Brian-om2hh
Maybe all the batteries getting replaced.
Leaf
Tesla
Recalls
@@Brian-om2hh As I said, I know of a whole family in Hertfordshire who, individually, changed to evs (an MGZS, a Volvo and a Jaguar) and they each reported much higher insurance than an ice equivalent... As for the batteries, I was merely speculating that batteries are likely to be less efficient after so many years, which would probably put people off buying a ten year old vehicle, the likelihood of which the battery could well need replacing then.
@@Rabscuttle3 Which is possibly why the owner of a 10 year old EV might wish to consider a battery refurbishment rather than a total replacement. As an example, Gloucestershire based Cleveleys Electric Vehicles carried out a refurb on a 10 year old Leaf a while ago (the video of the refurb is on TH-cam). They did the work in 4 hours, and the cost was £600. Complete replacement may not always be necessary.....
I like your stuff - maybe consider some kind of lighting or camera upgrade though. It could make your videos look a little more professional and perhaps attract some more attention
I'm not after professional tbh.
Just a guy with a camera suits me.
@@ElectricVehicleMan fair, well I like your videos and that's the important thing!