I love how she doesn't call her "Miss Cheekbones" in the edited version. That jarring cut made me laugh. James, you're truly the only TH-camr that I could listen to about a line on Superman's face for 30 minutes.
The problem with having a grey highlight on Superman's hair is that most of the team have black hair, but no grey highlight. Which really does make it look like he's just going grey, when he's standing there with Diana, John, and Bruce, all with their jet black hair.
Between the cheekbones, baggy eyes, and getting his ass kicked every other episode, I almost believed I skipped an episode and thought Superman was going through some serious Kryptonite cancer that he finally remission from by season 2.
in the last two episodes of superman the animated series, he got brainwashed by darkseid, almost conquered earth, got blasted by a kryptonite missile before getting imprisoned in a military facility under a red sun, then went to apokolips to fight darkseid by himself. in my head season 1 justice league has superman still haggard and recovering from all the trauma from those two episodes 😂
@@eghoseisiramen1892Given what happened in Legacy, I just imagine how much work he had to put in to make sure the world was in peace and people would trust him again.
I'm team no cheekbones but I'm also team who cares? I love that people tried to make an in-show reason for why he develops and then loses the cheekbones. It stands to reason when the people stopped trusting he got Super tired, and when the justice league was formed he felt Super better.
Personally I'm team: "Huh? How did I never notice this before? But now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee this... Sans cheekbones looks better to me but I suppose that's cause it's always been my mental image / my brain has apparently been filtering them out mentally all these years..." My team could be a Japanese light novel title....
I think it's kind of silly to try and come up with an explanation for a specific physical depiction when characters in the DCAU have had all sorts of varying physical depictions with no further explanation
Also he may have been consciously holding back around the time of JL S1 out of an abundance of caution trying to avoid scaring people with his power following the events of Legacy.
I'd say the cheekbone lines were redundant due to the shading already defining the shape of the face, except they didn't even match the two elements. Sometimes the line would be fully surrounded by shadow, which looked weird. Other times the line would be in a fully lit area, but the shadow would be nearby asking the question of why the shaded area didn't just continue to the line. Still other times, one end of the line would be in shadow while the other would be fully lit. (That's without even getting into inconsistent animation, where the cheekbone line might jitter noticeably during head movement.)
I noticed that a lot while editing them out, and honestly, I assume it had something to do with the way the animators drew lines vs shading indicators. The lines that represent where the shading goes were drawn in blue, while the normal lines were in black. If the two sat too close to each other on the paper, they could be accidentally confused with one another by the colorists.
The long cheek lines just make him look gaunt. I understand all their reasons and even agree he could use a little more detail, but he just looks gaunt. The Swan cheekbones are much smaller and higher up. Those work much better. It gives him the "strong face" detail without making him look sick or old. Also I prefer Wonder Woman with the smoother face as well. It makes her face easier to look at. Her cheek lines feel "visually abrasive" if that makes any sense, not to mention the animation troubles.
The way they were drawn made them less defined as the actual cheek/bone/ and more defined as just a long line going over the fleshy part of the cheek. The Swan cheekbones worked because the actual bone was given volume, whereas the Justice League ones really didn't do anything. Wonder Woman was drawn with proper cheekbones; Superman was gaunt
I feel like if they ever made a kingdom come DCAU film, the cheekbones would feel more at home there. Like, imagine old man Superman farming in his weird biom wearing Harry Potter glasses and his 90s Nightwing hair. That would be perfection
Definitely prefer season 2's design, but I love how they re-used the season 1 design for For the Man Who Has Everything. It's like they have a sense of humor about the whole ordeal.
1. The cheekbones make him look malnourished, im very glad they were removed 2. I think if they had given him subtle wrinkles similar to john stewart or batman in btas it would've looked better 3. I'm confused as to why superman was aged up but batman looks younger than ever, considering bruce is like 10+ years into being batman at this point Anyways great video!
He’s actually 10+ years into being Batman around the start of BTAS! This is, like, year 20 almost! We’re thinking of doing a video on everything that happened during Batman’s first 10 years…
I've always thought the cheekbones looked pretty bad, but it's cool to hear the reason behind them! And honestly, I think they looked pretty good in the concept art.
I didn’t even know this was a “huge issue” among the DCAU fans…when I noticed the lines as a kid, I thought the cheekbone lines looked weird, then quickly moved on and forgot about them
21:30 I cannot believe that you actually animated old Bruce saying "except for the cheekbone development, please leave that out of the equation, that s*** is bananas." A+++++ work
I just wanna say thank you, I was never into DC really until I started watching your videos and discovered the absolute gold that was the DCAU. I just finished Batman beyond and Justice league+JLU and have had an absolute blast with all these shows so far
Always here for more Superman videos! Personally, I'm team no cheekbones, STAS is still the best look for Supes in the DCAU to me, I still love JL/JLU Superman, but something about Tim Daly's voice and the design of Superman is so pitch perfect for me, makes STAS my favourite DCAU show! I also appreciate the look into Curt Swan as the house style of Superman with DC, like how he was redrawn over JACK KIRBY'S pencils too, it's nutty.
During JL season 1, Newburn's performance and the tired-looking design of Superman created a running joke with my friend Dave as we were watching. Often when Superman had lines my friend would go "I'm so sleepy..." in Superman's voice. I always think of that when I watch JL season 1 stuff.
I've always found it weird that Bruce started off with cheek bones and then lost them as the universe progressed and then the same happened to Clark, but vice versa. Interesting video, nonetheless!
I subscribe to the “Superman was just sad” theory, but with the added detail that he probably isn’t eating enough, which makes his face lose some of its girth, while also making him physically weaker during JL Season 1.
he did once say he doesn't need to eat, but I don't see how. If you have to breathe in space, you have to eat. your brain and muscles use sugar, and no matter how much you absorb solar radiation, you can't change it directly into sugar without chlorophyll or somesuch.
@@KairuHakubimy dude the fact he can absorb solar radiation and convert it into LASER BEAMS strongly suggests he has some absurd cellular machinery under the hood. Being able to also produce sugar would be the least far-fetched feat of his anatomy.
I also ascribe to the idea that the stress of winning back the public trust brought on the cheekbones, but I would go a step further and say that the Legacy fight with Darkseid literally depowered Superman for a period of time. Not that he's older but that that his body is reacting to one of the one of the hardest battles he'd had in the DCAU up until that point. So by season two Twilight he's regenerated back to STAS levels. IMO
You mentioned how Supes was getting beat up and tossed around like a rag doll in Justice League to show how tough the baddie of the week was. It reminded me of Star Trek: TNG how in the earlier seasons they had the villain beat the spackle out of Worf to show how strong they were. but they didn't establish Worf as being particularly strong, so he just looked like a wimp dressed up as a Klingon.
Ok, I've taken one art class. Every line you add to a face adds age. On a Superman getting his butt kicked a lot: Oh, the Warf Effect. The gimmick of "oooo the villain is really scary!" only reliably works once; the second time, the audience has doubts.
Thats the unfortunate reality of line art, relying on paint makes it easier to avoid lines but sinplier styles force you to choose your lines wisely. I do hate the stigma though, like yeah I get it makes people look old but alot of faces and figures I see are too clean or perfect to be truly human.
It’s funny you mentioned Lex Luther’s cancer as when i was a kid I kind of thought that the big reveal at the end of season 1 was going to be superman was dying that’s why he was weaker, that’s why he looked older, that’s why he was talking like an old man and that’s why he formed the league because he wanted to pass on what made him a hero. Then when season 2 came on I thought oh they must have cancelled it because it’s bad taste.
You could argue that the stress of starting to hold back his strength and stick to such a strick morality would weaken a person to a point where they would start loosing battles they would normally tank. Then getting to let loose more and release some of the stress would do a body good.
I always assumed in Season 1 where they had more lines on there faces was because they were trying to Solo all the crime, thus wearing them down and making them look ragged. And by Season 2 they had all learn to work as a team and rely on each other to lighten the load, thus making them look less stressed. Especially Superman whom trys to help the entire world 24/7
The no-cheekbones edit you did for Clark & Diana reminded me of what WB did for Henry Cavill's Superman in Josstice League. Now I want to see a version of JL S1 that doesn't have the cheekbones on Clark & Diana. Make it happen WB!
10:27 Nice to hear that they took the fan criticism seriously and didn't brush it off. It shows how much care and heart went into the show, which is really cool.
This stuff is so interesting from a production POV with now tiny lines on cartoon characters can change sOOO much of a design’s vibe so quickly. I’m team no cheekbones but the harder jaw he gets in season two, though seeing the edited scenes it’s interesting that his face shape was sharper on its own in season one as well (awesome editing btw!!). I always appreciate you guys doing videos on stuff like this even if it seems dumb bc it brings new looks into the work made on a show and the processes present in cartoons in general. Plus, I got to laugh at “Easy for you to say… how about the autumn sunset?”
As far as that art style goes, I'm team no cheekbones, but I'm glad they kept the slightly lighter colored hair highlight as I always saw it as Super Man just having shiny hair due to some hair product or something that he uses to help it maintain that same shape all the time.
Honestly I think not making them so long wouldve helped the problem. Also the combo of the cheek bones and eyebags overwhelms the face with visual signifiers of age. It doesnt help that no other characters around his age have those features.
My head canon is that he gets the cheekbones because of heavy dieting, hence why his mom asks "Have you been eating, Clark? You look thin." After that, Clark realizes he's been dieting too hard, and gradually stops.
I didn’t care until I saw the edited versions, but now I’m team no cheekbones. Definitely a better design. That being said, I’ve always loved the way Superman was portrayed in JL and JLU. He needed to be the older wiser mentor, he needed his shit together to lead all of the older members (minus the Flash) and have their respect and be the legend he was. Fantastic video as always! I’m not sure I ever fully noticed that until it was pointed out but I think when I drew him all the time I did do the cheekbones because the coloring book I used for reference had them.
Yo, the editing lining up all these clips of talking characters from DC cartoons to the script/talking points are great. 18:14 - this whole bit starting with Wonder Woman talking and ending with Lex Luther cracked me up.
No joke, me and my little brother watched the first couple episodes of JL last night and I couldn’t place why he looked so weird to me. Crazy how I just happen to get a video recommended to me the next day
I waited all episode to see if you'd mention the horrific monstrosity that is Superman Doomsday! Team No Cheekbones, but my heart-canon is the "weary" thing. Not enough vitamin d or meta-chlorines or iron or whatever.
Exactly darkseid brain washing followed by dying to doomsday and being resurrected with not enough energy followed by running the gauntlet to get his rep back then the league, it seems like he just needed some r and r
My belief is that somehow being on Apokalips reduced some of his powers (maybe a wavelength similar to a red sun) and after the end of Superman TAS he worked himself non stop doing Superman things all over the city, state, country and the world exhausted his power levels immensely, which would explain both the tired look and how weak he was. Since he was the one that let the world down, he took it upon himself to "save/protect" the world and everyone around him (including the league) but after seeing that the league was capable he stopped gradually and that's why he was able to look like his old self again.
Team No cheekbones! And JLU Supes post cheekbones is also ny definitive Superman. I love George Newborns perfomance as the Big Blue. This video was a ton of fun. I'm also someone who goes insane over visual continuity and consistency.
The issue with the highlights in the hair is that while the comic books’ blue highlights are less realistic, they make it much more clear that it’s just shine and also match better with his overall design
This taught me a lot, as a character designer. People care about little details like this, even if its just two lines. When you design a character, you have to commit. When you go off the traditional script a bit with the design, you have to have meaning behind it.
I didnt realise the cheekbones were such a contentious topic, I don't think I ever really thought about it until seeing this video. Superman never looked particularly old or anything to me with the cheek lines, he just looked a little different.
I have no words to express how much fun I had watching this video. Amazing script, perfect edition and James' timing for jokes is impressive. TBH, I never liked the cheekbones when I was a kid. But I also tried to find an in universe explanation: in my head, when Superman was back from the Savage Times in season one's ending, somehow the time traveling affected his age and make him a little bit younger / stronger because of... reasons (I was 11 years old so don't judge me). Nowaday I accept better the different visuals between the TV shows / comics but you have no idea (actually I know you have) of how many different theories I created to justify these art styles (especially between BTAS/TNBA). Anyway, thank you again guys, you made my day!
I Remember seeing a flashback of Superman in a Batman Beyond Episode "The Call Part 2" I though it was awesome seeing him in the digital style with the brighter colors. I jumped for joy when I saw which episode that was from and how it tied into the Starro story.
Honestly, I've never had a problem with the cheekbones. Even when I was watching Justice League simultaneously with re-runs of STAS, it didn't stick out to me, as I though he simply got older between shows(I didn't know about the timeline yet). Nor did I have a problem with the change in voice actor, I'm personally more partial to George Newbern as Superman. I never even knew the difference between the actors, they sounded similar enough to me a kid back then. ADDENDUM: It’s like Uncle Iroh in Avatar. Mako voiced him until the middle of Book 2, when he had died of cancer. Greg Baldwin, his understudy, took over but I didn’t know ANY of that at the time. No one else seemed to, it’s like that. Now, if I had a peference: I’d rank the design from season 2 onwards as first, the original STAS second, and the season 1 design with cheekbones third.
You know I never gave a shit one way or the other about the cheekbones until I saw the edit of them on the World of Cardboard scene; that is disgustingly cursed
Watching these videos points out stuff I subconsciously noticed but never figured out like how they replaced his voice actor and yeah those damn cheekbones
In my defense as a fan of your channel, I was patiently waiting for the Ivy video longer than the cheek bones vid...and like that ivy video, you've finally delivered!
If the DCAU Superman Beyond ever return in animated or tie-in comic form, then I think it's reasonable to give him the cheekbones or maybe save them for another parallel version of him.
You're absolutely right about Curt Swan's Superman being the one everyone knew. I'm a '90s kid, but that version was the only Superman I knew until I was about 6 or 7. P.S: Will there be any videos reviewing the Adventures line from the comics? Puckett/Parobeck/Burchett was one of the best teams ever!
Love some Superman videos!! Also team no cheekbones but Season 1 JL Superman has a special place in my heart. Also also really appreciate the Nickelback joke again 🤣😂🤣
The cheekbones wouldn't have been nearly as notable an issue if Superman by pure coincidence wasn't also being written as the Worf of Justice League. Those issues just compounded each other and the change both in visual and more importantly in portrayal was for the best.
It's like an unintentional visual indicator to the viewer on which is the good JL season or the weak one by seeing if it's got the cheekbones like Star Trek TNG's S3-7 two-piece vs S1-2 one piece.
Those cheekbone lines are the cartoon trait that makes a character ''handsome'', just like giving a character a little white hair and a single wrinkle makes them ''old''. When i see the original superman i think ''he looks good, i enjoy looking at it'', with the added cheekbone line i think something along the lines of ''okay i get that hes suposed to be handsome, because he has that line'' i dont really feel it, even if i get that the message is the same
The more facial lines, the more naturally old the subject looks. Especially when you are working in a very cartonney and simple dighn with limited shading and solid colors, it can be very difficult to add more detail without accidentally aging the character. It is surprising how a couple of small lines can affect t the impression a character gives the audience. It also should be mentioned that these kind of lines can make a character feel more sinister easily too. It can cause a face look very skullike and thus give an angry or evil look. This may be why Lex kept his since it adds a layer of subtle implied evil to his ambiance with minimal effort/production cost.
The timing of your video is impeccable! i just binged stas and JL during the holidays and had nobody to talk to about the face changes. I'm sort of on the 'no cheekbones' team. seeing supes immediately after stas was very jarring to me. the original face had this "regal kindness" to it. I appreciate the intent for the resculpt, but it just didn't translate well with the simple style and exaggerated proportions, making him look a bit monstrous and spiteful. I imagine wonder woman animators were scratching their heads as well. that said, the s1 JL face was my childhood. my dad brought us home the dvd back in '02 and that was my first dcau experience
I like strong cheekbones on Supes but the black lines look like wrinkles. There’s a cartoon adage that every line you draw on a face adds 10 years. You can depict a character with strong cheekbones using shading without a harsh black line.
Hey, it's been a long time since I last saw a video made by you this soon after it was released. I hope you are doing fine and that your 2023 started well.
Bruh, i actually screamed out "finally" when James said the will it canon for The Batman and Teen Titans is gonna happen. I remember asking for the video in the comments since like 2017
I know how you feel about watching stuff after bedtime. I tried to watch Dragon Ball GT and later 1000 Ways to Die when I was younger and at times I would get caught by my parents for it. Tim Daly was going to reprise his role in Justice League, but he couldn't due to his work on a remake of The Fugitive. Hence him being replaced by George Newbern. Also, you're right. Wonder Woman had cheekbones too, but they weren't as noticeable as Superman's.
Another instant classic! Team no cheekbones all the way. So cool seeing the Season 1 scenes w/o cheekbones. Never realized how much I DIDN'T like them on Wonder Woman. I knew I always preferred her look season 2 onward, but seeing them edited out made me realize just how glad I am they took them away. I never liked Superman's cheekbones either. That edited world of cardboard speech was a jump scare 😂
Not gonna lie: big fan of the DCAU but I never notice the cheekbones. I remember Supes looking different, but I never really paid attention to the details, lol
I always thought you guys had at least 100k subs. Even back when I first discovered you guys a couple years ago via Yellow Batman Beyond Chest. God damn, you guys are under subbed! You’ll get there, but man I really gotta pay more attention to more than just the video and the comment section. 😅
You know… when I watched Justice League, I never noticed Super man having and removing cheekbone lines, but I did with Wonder Woman and noticed it disappeared. Kinda funny
Finding this video was a good surprise. It's the first time I see someone else mention this detail which was objectively a mistake. Thanks for giving me a voice, if I dare say 🙂
Oddly enough I prefer Superman's look without the cheekbones but I prefer Diana's design with them, just me? I don't think it makes Diana look tired but it does add a seriousness about her look that I think fits, she can still laugh and be relaxed but I thought the cheekbones worked better for her than Supes
Great video as always guys Looking foward to whatever the future holds for this channel, specially that Will It Canon BTW I believe that its confirmed that The Batman its in the same continuity with that Legion of Superheroes cartoon from 06
I love how she doesn't call her "Miss Cheekbones" in the edited version. That jarring cut made me laugh. James, you're truly the only TH-camr that I could listen to about a line on Superman's face for 30 minutes.
I love you too ❤️
Agreed
Do I smell a collab between two of my favs 😅
@@dcauwatchtower did you hear about Batman the Adventures continues season 3 comic?
@@srstriker6420 Yep! Gonna be talking about it on the podcast this year.
It's impressive that Luthor is able to stay in shape and maintain those cheekbones, considering those 40 cakes he stole
He doesn't eat the cakes he just takes them to be mean
@@skarloey1214 Girdle Luther
@@skarloey1214 THATS MEAN
And that's terrible.
That’s as much as four tens
The problem with having a grey highlight on Superman's hair is that most of the team have black hair, but no grey highlight. Which really does make it look like he's just going grey, when he's standing there with Diana, John, and Bruce, all with their jet black hair.
Youd think theyd have noticed that since they have eyes but i guess not
I guess earthling shampoo cannot battle those nifty Kryptonian imperfections
Between the cheekbones, baggy eyes, and getting his ass kicked every other episode, I almost believed I skipped an episode and thought Superman was going through some serious Kryptonite cancer that he finally remission from by season 2.
in the last two episodes of superman the animated series, he got brainwashed by darkseid, almost conquered earth, got blasted by a kryptonite missile before getting imprisoned in a military facility under a red sun, then went to apokolips to fight darkseid by himself.
in my head season 1 justice league has superman still haggard and recovering from all the trauma from those two episodes 😂
Bro, I was literally about to type that. I thought I kept missing a recently aired episode that had a plot affecting both Superman and Wonder Woman.
@@CassCat69 That's also my headcanon for it.
@@CassCat69dude was probably super constipated the whole time
The cheekeboney look definitely worked in the comic art... even the concept art. Just in the cartoon it seems to go in the wrong direction.
Yup. He loooks mega tired
Probably cause in the animation, the lines are all the same darkness and thickness.
@@eghoseisiramen1892Given what happened in Legacy, I just imagine how much work he had to put in to make sure the world was in peace and people would trust him again.
I'm team no cheekbones but I'm also team who cares? I love that people tried to make an in-show reason for why he develops and then loses the cheekbones. It stands to reason when the people stopped trusting he got Super tired, and when the justice league was formed he felt Super better.
LOL love that you got rid of "miss cheekbones" at the end there
Personally I'm team:
"Huh? How did I never notice this before? But now that it's been pointed out I can't unsee this... Sans cheekbones looks better to me but I suppose that's cause it's always been my mental image / my brain has apparently been filtering them out mentally all these years..."
My team could be a Japanese light novel title....
I think it's kind of silly to try and come up with an explanation for a specific physical depiction when characters in the DCAU have had all sorts of varying physical depictions with no further explanation
Also he may have been consciously holding back around the time of JL S1 out of an abundance of caution trying to avoid scaring people with his power following the events of Legacy.
@@BeeBwakka There's no real way to explain away things like Mad Hatter's height and Penguin's vanishing deformities, for example.
I'd say the cheekbone lines were redundant due to the shading already defining the shape of the face, except they didn't even match the two elements. Sometimes the line would be fully surrounded by shadow, which looked weird. Other times the line would be in a fully lit area, but the shadow would be nearby asking the question of why the shaded area didn't just continue to the line. Still other times, one end of the line would be in shadow while the other would be fully lit. (That's without even getting into inconsistent animation, where the cheekbone line might jitter noticeably during head movement.)
I noticed that a lot while editing them out, and honestly, I assume it had something to do with the way the animators drew lines vs shading indicators. The lines that represent where the shading goes were drawn in blue, while the normal lines were in black. If the two sat too close to each other on the paper, they could be accidentally confused with one another by the colorists.
The long cheek lines just make him look gaunt. I understand all their reasons and even agree he could use a little more detail, but he just looks gaunt.
The Swan cheekbones are much smaller and higher up. Those work much better. It gives him the "strong face" detail without making him look sick or old.
Also I prefer Wonder Woman with the smoother face as well. It makes her face easier to look at. Her cheek lines feel "visually abrasive" if that makes any sense, not to mention the animation troubles.
Visually abrasive is the perfect term
he always looked old to me
The way they were drawn made them less defined as the actual cheek/bone/ and more defined as just a long line going over the fleshy part of the cheek. The Swan cheekbones worked because the actual bone was given volume, whereas the Justice League ones really didn't do anything. Wonder Woman was drawn with proper cheekbones; Superman was gaunt
I can't believe I just watched a thirty minute video about Superman's cheekbones... And loved it
I feel like if they ever made a kingdom come DCAU film, the cheekbones would feel more at home there. Like, imagine old man Superman farming in his weird biom wearing Harry Potter glasses and his 90s Nightwing hair. That would be perfection
absolutely bonkers design.
Sadly, they can't
@@davincent98 why?
90s SUPERMAN hair u mean? Clark had man bun
Definitely prefer season 2's design, but I love how they re-used the season 1 design for For the Man Who Has Everything. It's like they have a sense of humor about the whole ordeal.
1. The cheekbones make him look malnourished, im very glad they were removed
2. I think if they had given him subtle wrinkles similar to john stewart or batman in btas it would've looked better
3. I'm confused as to why superman was aged up but batman looks younger than ever, considering bruce is like 10+ years into being batman at this point
Anyways great video!
He’s actually 10+ years into being Batman around the start of BTAS! This is, like, year 20 almost! We’re thinking of doing a video on everything that happened during Batman’s first 10 years…
I've always thought the cheekbones looked pretty bad, but it's cool to hear the reason behind them! And honestly, I think they looked pretty good in the concept art.
16:23 looks like some inspiration for Wonder woman with the cheek bones
I didn’t even know this was a “huge issue” among the DCAU fans…when I noticed the lines as a kid, I thought the cheekbone lines looked weird, then quickly moved on and forgot about them
Justice League was my first introduction to Superman, so I just thought that's what he looked like.
You didn't ask how he got them or why they are there? One of life greatest mystery 🤔
21:30 I cannot believe that you actually animated old Bruce saying "except for the cheekbone development, please leave that out of the equation, that s*** is bananas." A+++++ work
I just wanna say thank you, I was never into DC really until I started watching your videos and discovered the absolute gold that was the DCAU. I just finished Batman beyond and Justice league+JLU and have had an absolute blast with all these shows so far
Always here for more Superman videos! Personally, I'm team no cheekbones, STAS is still the best look for Supes in the DCAU to me, I still love JL/JLU Superman, but something about Tim Daly's voice and the design of Superman is so pitch perfect for me, makes STAS my favourite DCAU show! I also appreciate the look into Curt Swan as the house style of Superman with DC, like how he was redrawn over JACK KIRBY'S pencils too, it's nutty.
dc really wanted curt swan on everything superman.
During JL season 1, Newburn's performance and the tired-looking design of Superman created a running joke with my friend Dave as we were watching. Often when Superman had lines my friend would go "I'm so sleepy..." in Superman's voice. I always think of that when I watch JL season 1 stuff.
I've always found it weird that Bruce started off with cheek bones and then lost them as the universe progressed and then the same happened to Clark, but vice versa. Interesting video, nonetheless!
I subscribe to the “Superman was just sad” theory, but with the added detail that he probably isn’t eating enough, which makes his face lose some of its girth, while also making him physically weaker during JL Season 1.
he did once say he doesn't need to eat, but I don't see how. If you have to breathe in space, you have to eat. your brain and muscles use sugar, and no matter how much you absorb solar radiation, you can't change it directly into sugar without chlorophyll or somesuch.
@@KairuHakubimy dude the fact he can absorb solar radiation and convert it into LASER BEAMS strongly suggests he has some absurd cellular machinery under the hood. Being able to also produce sugar would be the least far-fetched feat of his anatomy.
@@MisterCynic18 i _guess_
That "I'm old now and I'm tired" line as superman falls was funny af
I also ascribe to the idea that the stress of winning back the public trust brought on the cheekbones, but I would go a step further and say that the Legacy fight with Darkseid literally depowered Superman for a period of time. Not that he's older but that that his body is reacting to one of the one of the hardest battles he'd had in the DCAU up until that point. So by season two Twilight he's regenerated back to STAS levels. IMO
I like this ideaa
That's actually a pretty good head canon.
You mentioned how Supes was getting beat up and tossed around like a rag doll in Justice League to show how tough the baddie of the week was. It reminded me of Star Trek: TNG how in the earlier seasons they had the villain beat the spackle out of Worf to show how strong they were. but they didn't establish Worf as being particularly strong, so he just looked like a wimp dressed up as a Klingon.
Exactly!
Ok, I've taken one art class. Every line you add to a face adds age.
On a Superman getting his butt kicked a lot: Oh, the Warf Effect. The gimmick of "oooo the villain is really scary!" only reliably works once; the second time, the audience has doubts.
particularly in such a simplified art style as Timm's. What would work for some, absolutely wouldn't for him. and vice versa.
Thats the unfortunate reality of line art, relying on paint makes it easier to avoid lines but sinplier styles force you to choose your lines wisely. I do hate the stigma though, like yeah I get it makes people look old but alot of faces and figures I see are too clean or perfect to be truly human.
It’s funny you mentioned Lex Luther’s cancer as when i was a kid I kind of thought that the big reveal at the end of season 1 was going to be superman was dying that’s why he was weaker, that’s why he looked older, that’s why he was talking like an old man and that’s why he formed the league because he wanted to pass on what made him a hero.
Then when season 2 came on I thought oh they must have cancelled it because it’s bad taste.
Ironically all star superman did just that
You could argue that the stress of starting to hold back his strength and stick to such a strick morality would weaken a person to a point where they would start loosing battles they would normally tank. Then getting to let loose more and release some of the stress would do a body good.
Hooray, this is a real new classic Watchtower Database video! Great job everyone!
I always assumed in Season 1 where they had more lines on there faces was because they were trying to Solo all the crime, thus wearing them down and making them look ragged. And by Season 2 they had all learn to work as a team and rely on each other to lighten the load, thus making them look less stressed. Especially Superman whom trys to help the entire world 24/7
The no-cheekbones edit you did for Clark & Diana reminded me of what WB did for Henry Cavill's Superman in Josstice League. Now I want to see a version of JL S1 that doesn't have the cheekbones on Clark & Diana. Make it happen WB!
Also superman's suit should be black
A Justice League remastered boxset where it's just brought to 4k and the cheekbones are removed and nothing else changes.
10:27 Nice to hear that they took the fan criticism seriously and didn't brush it off. It shows how much care and heart went into the show, which is really cool.
This stuff is so interesting from a production POV with now tiny lines on cartoon characters can change sOOO much of a design’s vibe so quickly. I’m team no cheekbones but the harder jaw he gets in season two, though seeing the edited scenes it’s interesting that his face shape was sharper on its own in season one as well (awesome editing btw!!). I always appreciate you guys doing videos on stuff like this even if it seems dumb bc it brings new looks into the work made on a show and the processes present in cartoons in general. Plus, I got to laugh at “Easy for you to say… how about the autumn sunset?”
he's just mewing
Fucking pin this
Mewper Man
As far as that art style goes, I'm team no cheekbones, but I'm glad they kept the slightly lighter colored hair highlight as I always saw it as Super Man just having shiny hair due to some hair product or something that he uses to help it maintain that same shape all the time.
24:21 bro just casually drops the most traumatizing episode of any show I've ever seen and moves on
Just found this channel and i've been hit with a wave of childhood nostalgia that's completely reinvigorated my love for some old hobbies
Awesome! 😁
Honestly I think not making them so long wouldve helped the problem. Also the combo of the cheek bones and eyebags overwhelms the face with visual signifiers of age. It doesnt help that no other characters around his age have those features.
My head canon is that he gets the cheekbones because of heavy dieting, hence why his mom asks "Have you been eating, Clark? You look thin." After that, Clark realizes he's been dieting too hard, and gradually stops.
I love that, but that’s at the tail end of season 2, where he’s not had the cheekbones the whole time!
I didn’t care until I saw the edited versions, but now I’m team no cheekbones. Definitely a better design. That being said, I’ve always loved the way Superman was portrayed in JL and JLU. He needed to be the older wiser mentor, he needed his shit together to lead all of the older members (minus the Flash) and have their respect and be the legend he was. Fantastic video as always! I’m not sure I ever fully noticed that until it was pointed out but I think when I drew him all the time I did do the cheekbones because the coloring book I used for reference had them.
Now that Superman has a reliable team he was able to relax, get some sleep, and start eating good, hence the season 2 change and power up.
I love this type of over-analyzing nitpicking videos on this channel. Watchtower Database Never change
Yo, the editing lining up all these clips of talking characters from DC cartoons to the script/talking points are great.
18:14 - this whole bit starting with Wonder Woman talking and ending with Lex Luther cracked me up.
No joke, me and my little brother watched the first couple episodes of JL last night and I couldn’t place why he looked so weird to me. Crazy how I just happen to get a video recommended to me the next day
I'm glad someone finally gave this topic the attention it deserves
I waited all episode to see if you'd mention the horrific monstrosity that is Superman Doomsday! Team No Cheekbones, but my heart-canon is the "weary" thing. Not enough vitamin d or meta-chlorines or iron or whatever.
The doomsday cheek bones aren't real they can't hurt us.
*GULP* I hope
Exactly darkseid brain washing followed by dying to doomsday and being resurrected with not enough energy followed by running the gauntlet to get his rep back then the league, it seems like he just needed some r and r
My belief is that somehow being on Apokalips reduced some of his powers (maybe a wavelength similar to a red sun) and after the end of Superman TAS he worked himself non stop doing Superman things all over the city, state, country and the world exhausted his power levels immensely, which would explain both the tired look and how weak he was. Since he was the one that let the world down, he took it upon himself to "save/protect" the world and everyone around him (including the league) but after seeing that the league was capable he stopped gradually and that's why he was able to look like his old self again.
Team No cheekbones! And JLU Supes post cheekbones is also ny definitive Superman. I love George Newborns perfomance as the Big Blue. This video was a ton of fun. I'm also someone who goes insane over visual continuity and consistency.
The issue with the highlights in the hair is that while the comic books’ blue highlights are less realistic, they make it much more clear that it’s just shine and also match better with his overall design
This taught me a lot, as a character designer. People care about little details like this, even if its just two lines. When you design a character, you have to commit. When you go off the traditional script a bit with the design, you have to have meaning behind it.
I've never read many comics, so it's always awesome getting to learn how the pages inspired the amazing DCAU!
I didnt realise the cheekbones were such a contentious topic, I don't think I ever really thought about it until seeing this video. Superman never looked particularly old or anything to me with the cheek lines, he just looked a little different.
I say the cheek bones could have worked as long as they kept him strong.
I remember when Superman Doomsday came out and I was like wtf is up with his face. Thats even worse then what they did here in JL.
All cheekbones and no flats.
Justice League was my first introduction to Superman, so I just thought that's what he looked like.
I love that you made 30+ min video on Superman’s cheek bones. Simply amazing.
Def noticed the change in WW' s cheekbones but not in Superman's case. Huh. Must be the Clark Kent glasses 😂
I have no words to express how much fun I had watching this video. Amazing script, perfect edition and James' timing for jokes is impressive. TBH, I never liked the cheekbones when I was a kid. But I also tried to find an in universe explanation: in my head, when Superman was back from the Savage Times in season one's ending, somehow the time traveling affected his age and make him a little bit younger / stronger because of... reasons (I was 11 years old so don't judge me). Nowaday I accept better the different visuals between the TV shows / comics but you have no idea (actually I know you have) of how many different theories I created to justify these art styles (especially between BTAS/TNBA). Anyway, thank you again guys, you made my day!
I seem to recall a golden age comic where Superman infiltrated an alien invasion by reshaping his face. He even pointed pointed out the cheekbones.
I Remember seeing a flashback of Superman in a Batman Beyond Episode "The Call Part 2" I though it was awesome seeing him in the digital style with the brighter colors. I jumped for joy when I saw which episode that was from and how it tied into the Starro story.
Yeah! Pretty dang cool. We did a whole video on Starro a couple years ago if you haven't seen!
To me it’s not even the cheek bones that made him look so old, it’s the under eye bags
Honestly, I've never had a problem with the cheekbones. Even when I was watching Justice League simultaneously with re-runs of STAS, it didn't stick out to me, as I though he simply got older between shows(I didn't know about the timeline yet). Nor did I have a problem with the change in voice actor, I'm personally more partial to George Newbern as Superman. I never even knew the difference between the actors, they sounded similar enough to me a kid back then.
ADDENDUM: It’s like Uncle Iroh in Avatar. Mako voiced him until the middle of Book 2, when he had died of cancer. Greg Baldwin, his understudy, took over but I didn’t know ANY of that at the time. No one else seemed to, it’s like that.
Now, if I had a peference: I’d rank the design from season 2 onwards as first, the original STAS second, and the season 1 design with cheekbones third.
Tim is FANTASTIC. But George did it better IMO. Mostly because he just sounds like how Superman should sound. To me anyways.
THAT INTRO!!!!... EVERTIME I WATCH, IT MAKES ME WANT IT ON LOOP.
You know I never gave a shit one way or the other about the cheekbones until I saw the edit of them on the World of Cardboard scene; that is disgustingly cursed
Watching these videos points out stuff I subconsciously noticed but never figured out like how they replaced his voice actor and yeah those damn cheekbones
🫡
In my defense as a fan of your channel, I was patiently waiting for the Ivy video longer than the cheek bones vid...and like that ivy video, you've finally delivered!
Thank you! I just rewatched Superman and Justice League recently after years and thought I was on crack!
If the DCAU Superman Beyond ever return in animated or tie-in comic form, then I think it's reasonable to give him the cheekbones or maybe save them for another parallel version of him.
You're absolutely right about Curt Swan's Superman being the one everyone knew. I'm a '90s kid, but that version was the only Superman I knew until I was about 6 or 7.
P.S: Will there be any videos reviewing the Adventures line from the comics? Puckett/Parobeck/Burchett was one of the best teams ever!
Absolutely! We do a show called "Will It Canon?" where we analyze those kinds of things.
Finally! A channel about serious matters.
Never thought I'd see a video about Superman's plastic surgery journey
I was literally looking at the cheekbones on an illustration of Tyler Hoechlin's Supe when I got this notification
Someone: what are you watching?
Me: Cheekbones of some fictional character
Another character to whom they also added cheekbones in Justice League was Lex Luthor however in my opinion he actually benefited from having them.
Yep, keep watchin’!
@@dcauwatchtower Sorry I was halfway through the video when I wrote that.
I don't understand how you can make a half hour video essay over a line
Love some Superman videos!! Also team no cheekbones but Season 1 JL Superman has a special place in my heart. Also also really appreciate the Nickelback joke again 🤣😂🤣
The cheekbones wouldn't have been nearly as notable an issue if Superman by pure coincidence wasn't also being written as the Worf of Justice League. Those issues just compounded each other and the change both in visual and more importantly in portrayal was for the best.
It's like an unintentional visual indicator to the viewer on which is the good JL season or the weak one by seeing if it's got the cheekbones like Star Trek TNG's S3-7 two-piece vs S1-2 one piece.
Those cheekbone lines are the cartoon trait that makes a character ''handsome'', just like giving a character a little white hair and a single wrinkle makes them ''old''. When i see the original superman i think ''he looks good, i enjoy looking at it'', with the added cheekbone line i think something along the lines of ''okay i get that hes suposed to be handsome, because he has that line'' i dont really feel it, even if i get that the message is the same
Imo it would be handsome if he didn't have the eye bags.
Superman's design on the animated movie Superman: Doomsday with sunken cheekbones made him look like Edward James Olmos.
The more facial lines, the more naturally old the subject looks. Especially when you are working in a very cartonney and simple dighn with limited shading and solid colors, it can be very difficult to add more detail without accidentally aging the character. It is surprising how a couple of small lines can affect t the impression a character gives the audience. It also should be mentioned that these kind of lines can make a character feel more sinister easily too. It can cause a face look very skullike and thus give an angry or evil look. This may be why Lex kept his since it adds a layer of subtle implied evil to his ambiance with minimal effort/production cost.
excellent work as always
The timing of your video is impeccable! i just binged stas and JL during the holidays and had nobody to talk to about the face changes. I'm sort of on the 'no cheekbones' team. seeing supes immediately after stas was very jarring to me. the original face had this "regal kindness" to it. I appreciate the intent for the resculpt, but it just didn't translate well with the simple style and exaggerated proportions, making him look a bit monstrous and spiteful. I imagine wonder woman animators were scratching their heads as well. that said, the s1 JL face was my childhood. my dad brought us home the dvd back in '02 and that was my first dcau experience
I love when you make this kind of video! Hope you guys reach 100K subscribers soon! You truly deserve it!
Agradezco los subtítulos al español. Ojala sus videos lleguen a mas personas porque son de excelente calidad.
I like strong cheekbones on Supes but the black lines look like wrinkles. There’s a cartoon adage that every line you draw on a face adds 10 years. You can depict a character with strong cheekbones using shading without a harsh black line.
Hey, it's been a long time since I last saw a video made by you this soon after it was released. I hope you are doing fine and that your 2023 started well.
Bruh, i actually screamed out "finally" when James said the will it canon for The Batman and Teen Titans is gonna happen. I remember asking for the video in the comments since like 2017
It’ll only happen if we reach 200 patrons!
25:36 those aren't bones, they're *fossils*
I know how you feel about watching stuff after bedtime. I tried to watch Dragon Ball GT and later 1000 Ways to Die when I was younger and at times I would get caught by my parents for it. Tim Daly was going to reprise his role in Justice League, but he couldn't due to his work on a remake of The Fugitive. Hence him being replaced by George Newbern. Also, you're right. Wonder Woman had cheekbones too, but they weren't as noticeable as Superman's.
Another instant classic! Team no cheekbones all the way. So cool seeing the Season 1 scenes w/o cheekbones. Never realized how much I DIDN'T like them on Wonder Woman. I knew I always preferred her look season 2 onward, but seeing them edited out made me realize just how glad I am they took them away. I never liked Superman's cheekbones either. That edited world of cardboard speech was a jump scare 😂
21:30 The fact that you actually bothered to sync his mouth movements is incredible.
I had forgotten how Season 1 JL Superman was a victim of the Worf Effect.
You can't say babyface!
That is our word!
You're exposing the business!
Not gonna lie: big fan of the DCAU but I never notice the cheekbones. I remember Supes looking different, but I never really paid attention to the details, lol
Love that you also took off the cheek bone mention for the scene with Diana at 29:00
I always thought you guys had at least 100k subs. Even back when I first discovered you guys a couple years ago via Yellow Batman Beyond Chest.
God damn, you guys are under subbed! You’ll get there, but man I really gotta pay more attention to more than just the video and the comment section. 😅
You know… when I watched Justice League, I never noticed Super man having and removing cheekbone lines, but I did with Wonder Woman and noticed it disappeared. Kinda funny
I will say, this is probably just because it was mentioned while Superman’s were just… there…
@@ryunbaranims1722when was it mentioned? Ep? Season? I need details
Literally was just watching Justice League and wondered this to myself.
Finding this video was a good surprise. It's the first time I see someone else mention this detail which was objectively a mistake.
Thanks for giving me a voice, if I dare say 🙂
Oddly enough I prefer Superman's look without the cheekbones but I prefer Diana's design with them, just me? I don't think it makes Diana look tired but it does add a seriousness about her look that I think fits, she can still laugh and be relaxed but I thought the cheekbones worked better for her than Supes
The cheekbones in Superman Doomsday (2007) were the most horribly distracting thing I've ever seen in animation.
Great video as always guys
Looking foward to whatever the future holds for this channel, specially that Will It Canon
BTW I believe that its confirmed that The Batman its in the same continuity with that Legion of Superheroes cartoon from 06
hahahahaha man now I can't unsee that, I never noticed till I found this masterpiece of a video! Great channel & content 👌🏼💯