Observation from video: novus ordo-female dominant presence; 62’ Mass-male dominant presence. But from experience in attending ICKSP parish, many mothers and single young women in the pews. The “energy” and “feel” of both masses are starkly different. Very interesting.
Women, and effeminate priests rule the roost in the Novus Ordo Rite and the parishes where they exist. Feminism is laced in much of the theology, and approach in the "springtime church."
You guys are enamored because it's novel to you. Give it time, it will drop as the novelty drops, and as it was prior to the implementation of the Gregorian Mass (what is erroneously being called Novus Ordo, which DOES NOT EXIST) mass attendance was virtually null because attendees are irrelevant. In the Gregorian Mass, you ARE PART or the celebration, and you're involved.
@@EdwardBray-i1w what I see is that you're trying to degrade the enthusiasm for this Tridentine Mass (or whatever you want to call it right). It is better for you to encourage people to love the Mass more than degrading their moral. Let the tide rise up by themselves, don't try to make it go down like you did with your comment.. Moreover, if you can't say something encouraging, it's better not to say anything at all. The Mass of Pius V was the "ordinary form" of it's time, and it has always been relevant, even our good Eastern Orthodox brothers are trying to make it back and encourage us to do the same. I don't have problem with the Mass of Paul VI. What I do have problem with is the people who discourage other Catholics who attend Tridentine Mass *and* the liturgical abuses (and unnecessarily irreverent liturgies) that are spreading around catholic masses in the world.
Are you people just willfully blind?! You are nothing and nobody in the Tridentine mass. You go, you don't go, you are irrelevant to the process. In the Ordinary Mass which you people have misnomered as "Novus Ordo" you are being shepherded to; you are part of the celebration. Tridentine Mass is all spoken in a language that YOU DON"T GRASP!!! You believe this is what God wants for us in most masses, and not for us to be attended to. You are nothing more than a TH-cam spectator in the mass not just at home.
@@squirrelandowl7482 Oh deary me! Good job you have the choice of the Novus Ordo then. Maybe your Mass is not as beautiful as the Italian community one I went to as a child in England. The singing used to transport me to heaven, and I never heard any droning prayers. So I suppose it is who conducts the Mass.
Even if you are not Catholic, just at a glance, you can see more sincerity, more solemnity, more soul, more reverence, more peaceful and pensive contemplation, and more beauty in the TLM. Thank God I have one by me and thank God for bringing me to it.
+JMJ. Miracles happen. But the NO impedes our receptivity to them. The NO is more about assuaging our ego than about adoring the Lord in Thanksgiving for His Holy Sacrifice. May you see the light of His Face.@taylorrowe2002
Yeah the first one I did next to the SSPX Mass was a terrible example but I sort of stumbled into it and didn't nitpick. But this NO is the average one you get.
A good NO follows the rubrics the council actually gave it. The vast majority of NO masses are the cooled down version the 1970s cultural tide that took the liturgy for a ride.
As someone who generally attends the TLM exclusively I’d like to say thanks for actually using an example of what an actual Novus Ordo mass looks like and not comparing a clown mass to the TLM. The comparison was fair.
This is pretty close to my own parishs NO mass. We do usually have a deacon though. I also am generally surprised how many alter boys the TLM mass has. Is that normal? Think I ever only see 3-4 max in the NO mass.
@@cole_07_30It’s within the margin of error I would say. What I mean is that it is not very far off from what you would find if you where to example to just go to a random Novus Ordo mass.
@@SevenspentYes it is normal for their to be many altar boys at the TLM. In large part that is due to TLM parishes not allowing for girl altar server and challenging young men since serving the TLM is a lot more difficult than serving the New Mass.
I'm a convert and converted via the way of the Novus Ordo and post V2 sacraments, and I just don't understand why the church ever abandoned its sacred Mass for a cringe protestant Lutheran mass rooted in heresy. It takes away from the sacred and bears rotten fruits. Look at Mass attendance, look at lack of belief in the Real Presence, the disregard for the Holy Eucharist, the watering down of teachings, etc.. The correlation is obvious, the NO Mass is clearly doing more harm than good. We need to return to our true faith, not just in liturgy, but in teachings and practices in general. With that being said, in my opinion, the orientation in worship is where it begins. The modernist Vatican 2 church is in decline and the faithful are yearning for our authentic Catholic heritage, especially us younger folks.
Historical fact, churches with the Tridentine Mass were mostly empty prior to Vatican II. If you're a protestant, you can see their churches are filled to the brim, event though they are not The Church of Christ, but simply a church. Lovers and adherents of the Tridentine Mass (misnamed TLM) are primarily ex-protestants who still hold to a lot of their theology. Also, The Catholic Church Gregorian Mass attendance is not declining any less than these Tridentine Masses, as this is a worldwide effect due to the growth of secularism and false propaganda pushed by the enemies of The Church. Actual, facts matter more than perceptions and false narratives. FYI. Novus Ordo does not exist in the church. It is not a term recognized by the church, it's a misnomer. It's Gregorian Mass, Post Conciliar Mass, or the Ordinary Mass.
Friendly reminder: the debate is not just between the TLM and the Novus Ordo, it's also between the NO and genuine reform. The TLM is a reminder that a genuine reform of the liturgy--one that would restore the fullness of its splendor--did not take place. The TLM was not reformed but replaced. The TLM as we have it right now is like a broken, out of tune antique Steinway piano. It is a beautiful thing, but it has so much potential if it could be put back together. The NO, on the other hand, is like a brand new toy piano. Now, the nay-sayers will rely on a technicality: yes, in a sense a toy piano is still a piano, but replacing a Steinway with a toy piano is not the same thing as repairing the Steinway. So in what way is the TLM "broken"? In a word, we need to look to medieval liturgies and the early Tridentine liturgy to find ways to restore the TLM to its fullness. Structurally, rolling back certain reforms which might have made sense at the time, would help. Most TLMers I know agree that the 1955 Holy Week reforms produced a ritual inferior to the traditional one. Bishop Schneider is of the opinion that Pius X's reform of the breviary should be rolled back as well. The eucharistic Blood should be given to the laity, either by intinction (following Byzantine practice) or, even better, using a silver dropper, as in the oldest recorded form of the Roman rite. The rest of the problems with the TLM have to do with "performance practice", that is, how the liturgy is celebrated. Medieval and Renaissance liturgies employed the entirety of the church building, similar to how the Byzantine rite does today. Liturgy was punctuated with multiple processions. Cantors and lectors chanted from multiple ambos--and from the rood screen. By contrast the TLM, as it is usually celebrated now, has the feel of a glorified private mass. Medievals had a creative way of incorporating the vernacular into the Liturgy: repetition. Once the Latin text is chanted, a vernacular paraphrase is chanted. This is similar to current Byzantine practice: a cantor might chant a phrase in English recto tono and then sing the written out chant in Greek-why not do the same thing for the propers of the Mass? Likewise, if the readings are repeated at the sermon, why not chant them in the vernacular directly after chanting them in Latin? Finally, pews and rood screens. Pews, a Protestant invention which snuck into Catholic churches during the 1700s, should be removed. There can be some seating for those who need it, but removing pews will make the laity far less passive. Likewise rood screens should be reintroduced. This will give definition to the "holy of holies" in the church--though, unlike some excessive rood screens of the middle ages, they need not be totally opaque.
Спасибо. Я всегда хотела знать, когда в Римско-католической церкви появились скамьи и от кого: теперь я знаю это. Thank you. I always wanted to know when the Roman Catholic Church got pews and from whom: now I know it.
I noticed how many more young people and young married couples there are attending my local FSSP TLM parish than the old NO parish I grew up going to as a kid. TLM is growing.
I fell away from my faith in the New Order, N.O. I never heard of the Traditional Latin Mass but was invited to a low mass. It was by God's grace alone that I returned to the faith and attend the TLM now. I saw what was sacred and the reverence at holy mass and wanted it. It was after attending only 1 low mass. God be praised for His mercy upon this wretch. Pray I do not go astray again.
yet still likley to push a man to the brink of despair. I know I cannot take it; it is worse than a bad work day. if that music is in the afterlife it is called DAMNATION.
@@ServusChristi777i can say that i love both and both are valid, Holy Mass. i feel so much closer to the Lord in my NO. Yes TLM is great and reverent but I feel confined to the medieval walls so to speak. At NO I better worship God by understanding what is happening without needing a missal. I also feel like having the laity more involved in the Holy Sacrifice makes us feel more involved with God, it isn’t just a few holy men on an altar doing something while we pray a rosary, its all of our prayers and its a community worship. Both are beautiful. Both have fed the spiritual lives of Saints. Just because we aren’t speaking another language (which is very beautiful) and singing old hymns doesn’t mean we aren’t being reverent. I feel as though the focus is more on prayer when I’m at NO. The TLM can feel as though we’re just doing all these motions for nothing and trying to replicate some 1950s style of life. I believe that God speaks to us through both Masses; some prefer all the ancient traditions and chants which are great, and some feel more connected to God through hymns of praise in the vernacular and seeing more clearly the Holy Sacrifice on the Altar. That is amazing. Truly the mere opportunity we get to be at any Mass is a gift we don’t deserve and we should praise God no matter what. God bless you and your family; and may you be close to our Merciful and Graceful Father at all times of your life; and may we see each other in Heaven.
@@loganm8220I agree. There’s a Roman Imperialism with the Latin Mass. If one truly understood history, they’d know the TLM changed much over time, and adopted a lot of Germanic, Gothic and Vandal traditions. The Latin Rite Church also suppressed different rites such as the Iberian Rite of the Spanish Peninsula. Sounds familiar no? Sure, the Novus Ordo needs to be reverent and not lazy. But, to say the TLM is superior is based on rubrics, not Faith. My Protestant wife is converting BECAUSE we started to attend a Charismatic Mass with an amazing Deacon who has helped her along the way. Likewise, I get to attend the Ordinariate occasionally which is my cup of tea.
I attended the mass at st stanislaus (left) and it was beautiful. I know fr. Matthew and he does a good mass. Thanks for showing off some good masses in Wisconsin.
I believe the TLM Mass is and always has been and will be the one True and Holy way of offering Our Lord's Sacrifice to the Heavenly Father , Praying and hoping all Catholics will be unified in offering the TLM Mass one day , God Bless .
I hope so too. I hope the outcry from you guys is heard to such a level that all masses return to the Tridentine Mass and everyone, also rejects Vatican II. Now my only question is, when mass attendance and Catholic growth drop drastically to the levels they were prior to Vatican II changes, I wonder who will you blame, then? See you lot, who are primarily converts, continue to push this erroneous kind of Catholicism, and the Chuch, which has not changed it's fundamental teaching in over 2000 years, and your children become disconnected, as it will eventually happen, will you remain in the Church or will you clamor for return to the Gregorian Mass (What you misnomer as Novus Ordo, which does not exist).
I was a Protestant convert to Novus Ordo Catholic in the early 1980’s. I had no idea at the time that there was anything else. During my 30 years in the Novus Ordo, I felt about half Protestant and half Catholic. When you compare the Nóvus Ordo mass with a Protestant service (especially Lutheran), you see that’s exactly what the Novus Ordo has been…about half Catholic. It wasn’t until my husband and I found Tradition that I felt fully Catholic. My first time, I just sat and took it in, reveling in the palpable presence of Christ all around me. The Mass made increasing sense over time, and my spiritual life at home and church became increasingly fervent to the point that I, my marriage and family were healed of many problems and issues we had struggled with for years. If they canceled every traditional mass today, I’d seek out canceled traditional priests and support their ministries. Under no circumstances could or would I ever return to the Novus Ordo. The two masses are as different as day and night, besides which, the Novus Ordo seems now to be morphing into something that only vaguely resembles Catholic worship. There’s a reason traditional masses are packed with young families. Having had a bit of heaven on earth in the midst of a highly disordered world, it’s not possible to turn your back on it, forget it, and return to darkness. It’s a priceless treasure we are, instead, compelled to attend, share with our loved ones and spread to as many souls as possible.
can anyone tell me wat was that beautiful Latin hymn of hallelujah from the ICKSP mass at 00:42 ? i really want to meditate and pray a rosary whilst that hymn plays. please.
don’t get me wrong the NO is done well it’s not that bad but it strips away that catholic meaning that we’ve had for centuries the Latin Mass will always be timeless
For those needing a translation of the TLM. May I suggest purchasing a Father Lasance New Roman Missal 1945 Edition. The English translation and Latin are side by side, It has the Propers of the Saints and much more. You can find a nice new reprint online. The other is the 1962 Roman Missal with this missal you have to flip pages more often, It is more readily available than the Father Lasance.
By the grace of God, I attend an ICKSP parish. Magnificent liturgy, gorgeous schola, & holy priests who have great dignity. A few times a year, the Canons need to be away, and a N Ordo priest who knows the TLM will sub. They do the liturgy well, but the homilies are NO. Whereas our Canons seek to disappear into Christ, speak with dignity, and rarely say I me or mine, the NO priest subs are intensely self-centered and emotional and talk about their own experiences in sn agitated manner. I remember thinking once, "Does he know that he's screaming?" Quite a contrast.
I've been searching Lutheran mass with Novus Ordo side by side without avail. I've heard about the alleged similarities but have not been able to verify it.
i attend a novus ordo that i consider to be pretty serious, and i stand by that after seeing the NO mass here… oh my Lord i wish i could attend the TLM
Looking at the Novus Ordo side specifically, I would assert that the way in which the priest particularly celebrated Mass was pretty reverent, even if the music wasn't great. The NO church on the right looks beautiful also. I would avoid "liturgy wars" and try to find a good Diocesan church which celebrates "the renewed Liturgy with dignity and fervor" as Paul VI said in a 1976 Secret Consistory, Celebration versus populum or ad orientem does not determine whether the Mass was said reverently or not. I would also say it is unwise and naive to chase after an ICKSP or FSSP church which is almost 2 hours away from you, when you have very decent NOs less than 10 minutes drive. And also, about the description, I would say do FSSP TLM vs EWTN NO as the way Cantius does both rites really gives no point in comparing the two because they are essentially the same but more importantly, they are both equally reverent.
You can make the Novus Ordo "look like" the Latin Mass, but it is still theologically erroneous. In fact, a "reverent" novus ordo mass is more dangerous because it makes it harder to spot it as being a heretical creation.
Thanks for watching, I'll have to figure out a way to download an FSSP livestream. But I would just add that I would recommend people drive 2 hours to an FSSP or ICKSP because the music at the NO, reception on the hand etc. Even the best Novus Ordo in the country doesn't touch an FSSP Mass in reverence. If a reverent NO is the best you have within 2 hours of you then great.
@@CatholicEdward i don't think reverence is the only factor.. there is also community and Sunday rest which is very very important. Driving 4 hours for something you have 10 mins from home is a sin i think. When is it just for your own esthetical pleasure rather that adoring God? Abuses and clown masses are to be avoided but this one in the video is perfectly fine and doesn't need to waste half the day of the Lord in car travelling
@@mariobaratti2985 It's not about "reverence". It is about the Mass itself and why it was created the way it was. The theology behind the NO mass is flawed no matter how "reverent" it appears to be.
You may hear the TLM Mass on the left every day on the ICKSP Live Channel here: www.youtube.com/@ICKSP On Sundays, the first Mass is Low Mass, the second is High Mass.
I think the John Cantius comparison you mentioned in the description would be particularly instructive as it's the same church and the same priests, so the rubrical differences would be more emphasized.
@@followerofchristofthetrini1692 this is true but if the aim is to show the rubrical deficiencies in the NO I think the John Cantius video would be more instructive as you could focus less on the ephemeral exterior elements and more on the substance of the mass itself.
Altar girls is not even a good Novus Ordo. A good Novus Ordo priest would simply refuse to select girls for the altar, since alter service is a means of shadowing a priest and contemplating the priesthood. He's also doing communion in the hand - but at least he has no lay ministers, which the worst NO priests seem to be obsessed with.
Sadly my local church is a NO one, and most of those " Eucharistic ministers" are women, I even got invited to become one. I'm trying to find a Latin Mass I can get to. I'm a convert, but even I find the Latin Mass so much more reverent
Now now slow down there champ. Now you’re just plainly being sexist huy? Are you implying that women can’t be a priest? What a horrible thing to say. They’re strong and independent and can do anything men can. Please be a decent human being. Lmao I was just joking with you
The general instructions on the New Mass: - says that “The Lord’s supper or Mass is the sacred assembly or congregation of the people of God gathered together, with a Priest presiding, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord”. It calls the Mass a supper, not a sacrifice! It says that the Mass is an assembly of the people, not a renewal of the sacrifice of Calvary. It says that the Priest is a presider, not that he is offering a sacrifice. It says that what is being celebrated is a memorial, not a sacrifice. Bidding prayers that the congregation can make were removed by St. Gregory the Great. Cranmer restored them in the Anglican rite and they reappeared in the Novus Ordo. The New Mass no longer speaks of a victim; it speaks of gifts that are being offered to God. Instead of the offering of a victim you have the blessing of food. Instead of a consecration it is basically a prayer of thanksgiving and a memorial. Instead of the consuming of a victim that has been sacrificed, you have a sharing of food.
Honestly, I feel bad for the priest, choir, and cantor at the Novus Ordo Mass- they have all been trained that the Mass is a performance in which they must keep the attention of the “audience.”
God sees the heart, both rites if said with reverence are pleasing to him. Pope Benedict was correct (God bless his soul), both rites can and should exist side by side so people have a choice to worship him which they find spiritually fulfilling. It's NOT once against the other. Praise be the Holy Name of Jesus!!
I disagree with Pope Benedict XVI, who was a career Modernist, and in his younger days wrote questionable material and attended the VII sessions in a suit and tie. The TLM, a product of centuries of development, as opposed the banal, contrivance whipped up by a Freemason, ( Bugnini), New Theologians, and Protestant advisors, needs no " enrichment," for, in every aspect, the TLM,stands head and shoulders over the new rite. If folks prefer to attend a Protestantized Rite, because it appeals to them, then go for it. Let those who prefer the TLM, because it fulfills what it means to be Catholic, in the fullest sense of the word, continue to attend without suppression, restrictions and persecution. If any Rite is going to disappear, it won't be the Mass of Ages.
I just want to point out that a lot of the features of the Novus Ordo shown here, although common, are not essential parts of the Novus Ordo, and arguably liturgical abuses. Woman lectors and reception on the hand especially; and though I've never heard a strong argument that Ad Populum (the priest facing the people) is technically abuse, it is still not a necessary part of the Novus Ordo. I am not a priest or an acolyte or any kind of clergymember, and I don't know if it is true that the Novus Ordo is bad as people say. But Cardinal Sera's view sounded very plausible to me, and I have seen some priests actually act accordingly; to allow the Latin Mass to inform their manners in the Novus Ordo. A Novus Ordo mass with gregorian chant, Priest Ad Orientam, reception on the tongue, and readings only by acolytes is a world of difference from what we see here. *I will note however that it is very rare to actually follow the advice of Cardinal Sera; the other commenters are right that the NO mass here is nicer than average. I'm not saying that Sera's views are generally followed in the NO world. I'm just saying that it seems to me that they should be.
Both are holy and true. Express the same truth in different ways. I once was really against the New Mass, and I looked down upon it, be I grow to love it, especially when it is celebrated according to the rubrics. I was proud for dismissing a liturgy given by the Church.
In the Novus Ordo, the priest has become a protestant tv evangelist, which was pretty much the goal. You cannot make concessions to invite our "lost protestant brethren" and expect the mass, the priest, and the faithful to remain Catholic. Honestly...who in the world wants to sing cheesy songs like that, and TRY to retain some semblance of sublime and divine thoughts?
I wish there was a ICKSP or FSSP parish near me. I love my priests at my NO parish close to my home and I'm getting to know a lot of great people there, but sometimes it's not the most reverent Mass. A bit further away is a parish that has a Latin NO but I would still love the opportunity to see an actual TLM.
Looks like Catholic mass on the left and Protestant service on the right. No surprise I self exiled for 41 years until finding TLM and the mass of the ages.
same! there's something about being hidden away at a secret underground Latin Mass that makes it even cooler. I've had an experience like that recently
@@CatholicEdward I wish I could experience that, in fact it has been discussed through out the DC archdiocese because of TLM restrictions. Also, the SSPX held a hotel mass during the M4L(March For Life) but I wasn't able to attend because my exams were on that day. Pax Tecum.
It is what it is. Now Catholics can choose which type Liturgy they would like to attend. There are still very many of us "old" members who were immersed in the Latin Rite and it is hard for some to accept and/or change to the New Mass. The newer generation doesn't know the difference since Latin was not in their upbringing. Just be sincere in whichever worship you choose.
Latin mass is so reverent. That's not to say I appreciate the Norvus Ordo form. It's just I think I can prepare myself for the eucharist a bit better in the trad mass because I can also pray unceasingly due to not understanding the latin, but trusting it's meaning.
I only wish you showed the people sitting behind the camera view. that place will be packed with so many young families, so many kids so many males and females even with our children. and the median age no joke 35 or 40.
@@EpoRose1 yes and I try to attend that Oratory/Parish in MKE when I can for Low or High Mass. ICKSP for the Win. I only wish your average catholic could attend a place like this more often. Your mind can't handle in a good way what you see, smell and hear. Brings me to tears and freezes my mind while my heart burst open.
This particular set of side-by-side will reinforce the usual arguments. Pro-N.O. "oh at least I can understand what the priest is saying". Pro-TLM "it's more reverent". In this case, no English was spoken, so will fuel the argument that "we don't know what is going on". At some TLMs, the readings are in English, the rest of the liturgy is Latin.
As reverent and beautiful TLM is, we cannot take away the power and love of God from any Mass being celebrated. The Mass is the same sacrifice of our Lord, which no man is able to tarnish or disgrace. Please respect whichever way the Mass is being celebrated as God can work through peoples hearts regardless of tradition or rite. Praise God for his loving mercy😊. I appreciate the insightful fairness of this video. May God inspire more people to attend either with Faith.
NO feels like a reduction of what makes Mass, Mass. It's this open, thinned out version of a SACRED sacrament. I agree with your sentiments, but it needs a sense of mystery and sanctity. It's also dependent on the priest as well.
May the Institute Of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, prosper, grow, attract good Catholic families and formulate good Catholic priests. God give them many graces!!!
Ironically, by attending the NO at Cantius (and other places where they do the NO in Latin) the problems of the new rite vis-a-vis the TLM became crystal clear. Normally people focus on the different aesthetics of the rites, but even when that is accounted for, the NO is a far more static, linear and rationalist ritual than the TLM (which is admittedly already simplified from its medieval versions). Moreover if one understands Latin, the NO still has the same problematic prayers, no matter the language!
I would like to ask, if one doesn’t speak Latin, why should they attend a TLM? I’m basically just there to listen to some music and a sermon. How is that different to what we have in non-denominational mega-churches of today (at least there I can understand the music). I have nothing against a Latin mass, but only for those who know how to speak it.
@@mmtoss6530 That’s a great question, first of all if you don’t know Latin you can buy a Missal and follow along in Latin and read the translation which is a start at learning Latin. The goal is to know more and more Latin over time. But ultimately attending the TLM is about going to the Mass that nourished the spiritual lives of most of the Saints. It’s about reverence for the Eucharist and the truths of the Faith that the TLM communicates.
The thing is, there's no rule which holds back many of the beautiful features of the traditional ritual from being used in the Ordinary Form today. It simply has lost widespread use because of the cultural movements of the 20th century, in which many within the Church felt that it should be less opulent for fear of appearing too high and mighty. Nothing in the documents of Vatican II or the liturgical reforms prohibit use of the Latin language, ornate worship spaces and vestments, chanting of the Ordinary and Propers of the Mass, ad orientem celebration, chanting of readings and prayers, or use of incense. At most, many of these things have been made no longer required by the rubrics, and they are often still strongly encouraged. I have great hope with the arrival of new priests and lay faithful with a rejuvenated love for the rituals of the Roman rite that we will see more Masses celebrated with the centuries-old trappings of Western Christian worship. In the meantime, I will continue to lend my services to my parish in obedience and reverence to the authority of my pastor and the Roman tradition. As a side thought, I think it may be more influential and less cordoned-off from the rest of the Church if the faithful TLM communities made efforts to have Masses according to the missal of the Ordinary Form with the same standards of ritual that they use in the older form. We need more examples of what the Novus Ordo can look like, or else people may continue to create contrasts between the two missals that aren't actually defining differences.
There is a magnificent novus ordo mass I’ve attended in all fairness that is run by some Opus Dei priests. However there is no competition TLM is superior in every way.
I prefer the TLM but I do like the NO when it's done right. I'm glad that these Societies of Apostolic Life such as the ICKSP, FSSP, Oratory of St Phillip Neri exist as they're often very passionate about celebrating the mass to a high standard which is very important. It brings people back to the church as well as bringing new people into the church.
I don't think video masses that have the choir and the organist and the audience in the picture very prayerful. As a side by side example it isn't a mass video because it is distracting but it does show what the Novus Ordo is lacking and that is very important.
The first mass after Jesus resurrected Luke 24 27-32 Said on the road to Emmaus which is west of Jerusalem. A mass on the road and communion given to them. Not in a church, not in Latin, not ad orientum, not with his back towards them. Would you reject this mass because it doesn’t follow TLM or NO? Would Judaic followers who converted reject it because there was no veil between them and the tabernacle? We can appreciate how the mass has evolved over time but must stick to what the basics of the mass are … a teaching from scripture, a Re-presentation of Calvary in memory of Jesus, taught to all nations in a language they could understand. The NO gift to people is the ability to understand all the readings, psalms and gospel in their language. This includes the typology between the OT and the NT with the first reading, psalm and the gospel. The bloodless sacrifice of the mass and communion.
I actually like both each one has strengh and weakness thats why i loved the heralds of the gospel mass becase their use many latin mass chants but most of the mass is novus ordo also as Brazilian im proud of the heralds being founded by us
As a former Protestant, hearing Catholics sing 10,000 Reasons by Matt Redman is so odd and off putting because as much as I liked that song during my time as a Protestant, it just seems strange for a Catholic Parish to use a Protestant worship song.
Well not to bash TLM, but I can see how protestants could bash us over the head with "You don't read your bibles" if your a cradle catholic in a TLM Parish because you never actually hear the bible in the language you understand. I am sure there is a English missal to understand whats being said, but how many are actually doing that. Never been to the TLM due to the lack in my area.
I can easily see at NO masses that there are more older people than young families. At TLM masses there are a great many young families attending. Why on earth would you want to destroy that?! It is very clear that Pope Francis is totally out of touch with local churches throughout the world along with a great many bishops and cardinals. It's easy for him to many fancy speeches and deep sounding words, but in reality people are heading towards the doors. We are loosing generations of young Catholics and bishops STILL don't get it.
I am a young Catholic who wants to start going to the TLM but I have none in my area, any advice for going to my first one. BTW does anyone know thew chant they used for the entrance I sounded beautiful.
You could look up the Mass of the ages map and find the closest to you. Might have to drive a ways but that's typical and try to go to a High/Sung Mass and don't read along, just enjoy it the first time.
It's nice to see an average NO mass depicted, and not the typical cherry-picked pseudomass of progressive priests. NO it's beautiful when done according to the GIRM. I do prefer ad orientem, but the initial parts of the mass in the 1962 missal are just absurd. I mean, i bet most people before V2 didn't even know that there are penitential rites during the mass... Not to mention the fact that all the lectures are done in latin, as if anyone today speaks latin. As far as I am concerned we should strike a compromise with a reverent NO (which can be in latin) and stop fighting about the return of some petty prayers that only the priest knows. That way we could oppose much better the real liturgical crimes.
La messa di S. Pio V è quella vera (rito straordinario) La messa nuova è solo uno spettacolo teatrale (rito NON ordinario) Lutero dall'inferno tra un supplizio e l'altro se la ride........
The V2 mass is not a sacrifice but rather a commemorative supper, All 7 sacraments were changed not just the mass. The priests are invalid like the mass. Its not the Catholic church but rather the end times counterfeit church
That's actually not a bad example, the music is a little new agey because its a middle school choir but the Mass it's self is pretty run of the mill NO. For a good example refer to my other video in my series. Thanks for watching. th-cam.com/video/e-Aisxi_aNQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Nicklas
jum esa misa novus ordo es super decente al lado de las aberraciones que le toca a uno aguantarse, al menos le cura hce genuflexión al tabernáculo, acá ni tabernáculo hay.
The ICKSP has not bad-mouthed the NO mass at least at the apostolate(s) I attend that they care for. Their goal is in saving souls and concentrate on people living a true Catholic life. The ICKSP does not bother with any political or anti-Pope Francis activities. Their institute continues to grow while NO seminaries are slowly dying away.
The NO sung Gloria is always, always, always a musical travesty; a disaster of epic proportions and an embarrassment to the very concept of music. I cringe at the banality and lack of artistry in the attempt to turn a spoken prayer into a song with a chorus. It never works. I hate that more than almost any other part of the NO and I hate many other parts. God help us. After 2,000 years this is the best we've got? Please, just stop.
To clarify the art shown on the right is not in that church, they show stained glass, paintings and icons etc. from other churches. It's a TV program.
Dear Nicklas, would you please share the link to the initial "miserere nobis"-response song from the first few seconds?
Observation from video: novus ordo-female dominant presence; 62’ Mass-male dominant presence. But from experience in attending ICKSP parish, many mothers and single young women in the pews. The “energy” and “feel” of both masses are starkly different. Very interesting.
Women, and effeminate priests rule the roost in the Novus Ordo Rite and the parishes where they exist. Feminism is laced in much of the theology, and approach in the "springtime church."
The liberal up-tempo songs in the NO church are so unfitting. The TLM songs are more slower with more of a religious feelihg.
You guys are enamored because it's novel to you. Give it time, it will drop as the novelty drops, and as it was prior to the implementation of the Gregorian Mass (what is erroneously being called Novus Ordo, which DOES NOT EXIST) mass attendance was virtually null because attendees are irrelevant. In the Gregorian Mass, you ARE PART or the celebration, and you're involved.
@@EdwardBray-i1w what I see is that you're trying to degrade the enthusiasm for this Tridentine Mass (or whatever you want to call it right). It is better for you to encourage people to love the Mass more than degrading their moral.
Let the tide rise up by themselves, don't try to make it go down like you did with your comment..
Moreover, if you can't say something encouraging, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Mass of Pius V was the "ordinary form" of it's time, and it has always been relevant, even our good Eastern Orthodox brothers are trying to make it back and encourage us to do the same.
I don't have problem with the Mass of Paul VI. What I do have problem with is the people who discourage other Catholics who attend Tridentine Mass *and* the liturgical abuses (and unnecessarily irreverent liturgies) that are spreading around catholic masses in the world.
@@EdwardBray-i1wthe Novus Ordo is an atheist maker. Young men lose the faith when they grow up in the NO.
More people need to see how much we have lost with the Novus Ordo
God is revealing to his people the mess brought about by the Novus Ordo hence they are now going to the TLM
Novus Ordo or Novi Ordines ?
Are you people just willfully blind?! You are nothing and nobody in the Tridentine mass. You go, you don't go, you are irrelevant to the process. In the Ordinary Mass which you people have misnomered as "Novus Ordo" you are being shepherded to; you are part of the celebration. Tridentine Mass is all spoken in a language that YOU DON"T GRASP!!! You believe this is what God wants for us in most masses, and not for us to be attended to. You are nothing more than a TH-cam spectator in the mass not just at home.
I am 76 and was so shocked and heartbroken when suddenly the Mass I knew all my childhood and early adulthood was suddenly vanquished from our lives.
It is very traumatizing indeed.
We were spiritually abused.
@@chookiechooks
We were, and the stick of obedience to the Pope was used to make us accept that which we did not want.
I'm much younger than you and the antiphons terrify me. So do the terrible music and droning prayers.
@@squirrelandowl7482 Oh deary me! Good job you have the choice of the Novus Ordo then. Maybe your Mass is not as beautiful as the Italian community one I went to as a child in England. The singing used to transport me to heaven, and I never heard any droning prayers. So I suppose it is who conducts the Mass.
Even if you are not Catholic, just at a glance, you can see more sincerity, more solemnity, more soul, more reverence, more peaceful and pensive contemplation, and more beauty in the TLM. Thank God I have one by me and thank God for bringing me to it.
One is catholic AND ONE IS NOT
You are graced to have found your true Catholic church. Bravo!
I count my discovering the TLM as one of the greatest favours from God.
+JMJ. Miracles happen. But the NO impedes our receptivity to them. The NO is more about assuaging our ego than about adoring the Lord in Thanksgiving for His Holy Sacrifice. May you see the light of His Face.@taylorrowe2002
Thanks for using a relatively good Novus Ordo, it's more fair I think and hits better at the average.
Yeah the first one I did next to the SSPX Mass was a terrible example but I sort of stumbled into it and didn't nitpick. But this NO is the average one you get.
A good NO follows the rubrics the council actually gave it. The vast majority of NO masses are the cooled down version the 1970s cultural tide that took the liturgy for a ride.
Even if decent, its still disgusting how the Gospel is read by a woman ad there is an female altar servant...
@@MattiavonSigmundThe Gospel is not read by a woman?? Also altar girls are permitted whether you agree or disagree about whether it's prudent.
Wishing the NO’s in our area were even this reverent. No one does it up like the ICKSP. ❤
As someone who generally attends the TLM exclusively I’d like to say thanks for actually using an example of what an actual Novus Ordo mass looks like and not comparing a clown mass to the TLM. The comparison was fair.
This is pretty close to my own parishs NO mass. We do usually have a deacon though. I also am generally surprised how many alter boys the TLM mass has. Is that normal? Think I ever only see 3-4 max in the NO mass.
I feel like this is a bit worse than the average new Mass
@@cole_07_30It’s within the margin of error I would say. What I mean is that it is not very far off from what you would find if you where to example to just go to a random Novus Ordo mass.
@@SevenspentYes it is normal for their to be many altar boys at the TLM. In large part that is due to TLM parishes not allowing for girl altar server and challenging young men since serving the TLM is a lot more difficult than serving the New Mass.
@@Leocomander I guess I must be attending a decently reverent new mass then because my parish has a way more “traditional” liturgy.
I serve at TLM. I love it. Praise God for giving me this opportunity.
I left for the NO services and I did not like it. I joined the Orthodox church only to find it was a cult. I returned to the TLM and I love it!
I'm a convert and converted via the way of the Novus Ordo and post V2 sacraments, and I just don't understand why the church ever abandoned its sacred Mass for a cringe protestant Lutheran mass rooted in heresy. It takes away from the sacred and bears rotten fruits. Look at Mass attendance, look at lack of belief in the Real Presence, the disregard for the Holy Eucharist, the watering down of teachings, etc.. The correlation is obvious, the NO Mass is clearly doing more harm than good. We need to return to our true faith, not just in liturgy, but in teachings and practices in general. With that being said, in my opinion, the orientation in worship is where it begins. The modernist Vatican 2 church is in decline and the faithful are yearning for our authentic Catholic heritage, especially us younger folks.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
You have simply nailed it to the core. I love that.
Historical fact, churches with the Tridentine Mass were mostly empty prior to Vatican II. If you're a protestant, you can see their churches are filled to the brim, event though they are not The Church of Christ, but simply a church. Lovers and adherents of the Tridentine Mass (misnamed TLM) are primarily ex-protestants who still hold to a lot of their theology. Also, The Catholic Church Gregorian Mass attendance is not declining any less than these Tridentine Masses, as this is a worldwide effect due to the growth of secularism and false propaganda pushed by the enemies of The Church. Actual, facts matter more than perceptions and false narratives.
FYI. Novus Ordo does not exist in the church. It is not a term recognized by the church, it's a misnomer. It's Gregorian Mass, Post Conciliar Mass, or the Ordinary Mass.
Friendly reminder: the debate is not just between the TLM and the Novus Ordo, it's also between the NO and genuine reform. The TLM is a reminder that a genuine reform of the liturgy--one that would restore the fullness of its splendor--did not take place. The TLM was not reformed but replaced.
The TLM as we have it right now is like a broken, out of tune antique Steinway piano. It is a beautiful thing, but it has so much potential if it could be put back together. The NO, on the other hand, is like a brand new toy piano. Now, the nay-sayers will rely on a technicality: yes, in a sense a toy piano is still a piano, but replacing a Steinway with a toy piano is not the same thing as repairing the Steinway.
So in what way is the TLM "broken"? In a word, we need to look to medieval liturgies and the early Tridentine liturgy to find ways to restore the TLM to its fullness.
Structurally, rolling back certain reforms which might have made sense at the time, would help. Most TLMers I know agree that the 1955 Holy Week reforms produced a ritual inferior to the traditional one. Bishop Schneider is of the opinion that Pius X's reform of the breviary should be rolled back as well.
The eucharistic Blood should be given to the laity, either by intinction (following Byzantine practice) or, even better, using a silver dropper, as in the oldest recorded form of the Roman rite.
The rest of the problems with the TLM have to do with "performance practice", that is, how the liturgy is celebrated.
Medieval and Renaissance liturgies employed the entirety of the church building, similar to how the Byzantine rite does today. Liturgy was punctuated with multiple processions. Cantors and lectors chanted from multiple ambos--and from the rood screen. By contrast the TLM, as it is usually celebrated now, has the feel of a glorified private mass.
Medievals had a creative way of incorporating the vernacular into the Liturgy: repetition. Once the Latin text is chanted, a vernacular paraphrase is chanted. This is similar to current Byzantine practice: a cantor might chant a phrase in English recto tono and then sing the written out chant in Greek-why not do the same thing for the propers of the Mass? Likewise, if the readings are repeated at the sermon, why not chant them in the vernacular directly after chanting them in Latin?
Finally, pews and rood screens. Pews, a Protestant invention which snuck into Catholic churches during the 1700s, should be removed. There can be some seating for those who need it, but removing pews will make the laity far less passive. Likewise rood screens should be reintroduced. This will give definition to the "holy of holies" in the church--though, unlike some excessive rood screens of the middle ages, they need not be totally opaque.
Спасибо. Я всегда хотела знать, когда в Римско-католической церкви появились скамьи и от кого: теперь я знаю это.
Thank you. I always wanted to know when the Roman Catholic Church got pews and from whom: now I know it.
The TLM music fit well with the religious images of the NO during their Gloria...😂
I noticed how many more young people and young married couples there are attending my local FSSP TLM parish than the old NO parish I grew up going to as a kid. TLM is growing.
I fell away from my faith in the New Order, N.O. I never heard of the Traditional Latin Mass but was invited to a low mass. It was by God's grace alone that I returned to the faith and attend the TLM now. I saw what was sacred and the reverence at holy mass and wanted it. It was after attending only 1 low mass. God be praised for His mercy upon this wretch. Pray I do not go astray again.
I attend a Ukrainian Catholic Church. Similar to the traditional liturgy. No modernization in 2,000+ years
I do as well and I see such a difference in my faith! The Divine Liturgy puts one in heaven! Lord Have Mercy!
That was a really good Novus Ordo mass.
It's rare to see something like that.
Yet still no where near the quality of a Latin Mass.
yet still likley to push a man to the brink of despair. I know I cannot take it; it is worse than a bad work day. if that music is in the afterlife it is called DAMNATION.
@@ServusChristi777i can say that i love both and both are valid, Holy Mass. i feel so much closer to the Lord in my NO. Yes TLM is great and reverent but I feel confined to the medieval walls so to speak. At NO I better worship God by understanding what is happening without needing a missal. I also feel like having the laity more involved in the Holy Sacrifice makes us feel more involved with God, it isn’t just a few holy men on an altar doing something while we pray a rosary, its all of our prayers and its a community worship. Both are beautiful. Both have fed the spiritual lives of Saints. Just because we aren’t speaking another language (which is very beautiful) and singing old hymns doesn’t mean we aren’t being reverent. I feel as though the
focus is more on prayer when I’m at NO. The TLM can feel as though we’re just doing all these motions for nothing and trying to replicate some 1950s style of life. I believe that God speaks to us through both Masses; some prefer all the ancient traditions and chants which are great, and some feel more connected to God through hymns of praise in the vernacular and seeing more clearly the Holy Sacrifice on the Altar. That is amazing. Truly the mere opportunity we get to be at any Mass is a gift we don’t deserve and we should praise God no matter what. God bless you and your family; and may you be close to our Merciful and Graceful Father at all times of your life; and may we see each other in Heaven.
@@loganm8220I agree.
There’s a Roman Imperialism with the Latin Mass. If one truly understood history, they’d know the TLM changed much over time, and adopted a lot of Germanic, Gothic and Vandal traditions.
The Latin Rite Church also suppressed different rites such as the Iberian Rite of the Spanish Peninsula.
Sounds familiar no?
Sure, the Novus Ordo needs to be reverent and not lazy. But, to say the TLM is superior is based on rubrics, not Faith.
My Protestant wife is converting BECAUSE we started to attend a Charismatic Mass with an amazing Deacon who has helped her along the way.
Likewise, I get to attend the Ordinariate occasionally which is my cup of tea.
Not really rare. Holy Cross Monastery in Chicago’s South Side has an Excellent Novus Ordo Mass, an Ad Orientem altar, and they are fans of Cupich.
So much was lost after V2. From the divine, to the relatively mundane. We must rebuild! 💪🙏
I attended the mass at st stanislaus (left) and it was beautiful. I know fr. Matthew and he does a good mass. Thanks for showing off some good masses in Wisconsin.
Avec cette synopse, on voit la laideur du Novo ordo comparé à l'Usus Antiquior. On comprend pourquoi les catholiques désertent la Nouvelle Messe
I believe the TLM Mass is and always has been and will be the one True and Holy way of offering Our Lord's Sacrifice to the Heavenly Father , Praying and hoping all Catholics will be unified in offering the TLM Mass one day , God Bless .
I hope so too. I hope the outcry from you guys is heard to such a level that all masses return to the Tridentine Mass and everyone, also rejects Vatican II. Now my only question is, when mass attendance and Catholic growth drop drastically to the levels they were prior to Vatican II changes, I wonder who will you blame, then? See you lot, who are primarily converts, continue to push this erroneous kind of Catholicism, and the Chuch, which has not changed it's fundamental teaching in over 2000 years, and your children become disconnected, as it will eventually happen, will you remain in the Church or will you clamor for return to the Gregorian Mass (What you misnomer as Novus Ordo, which does not exist).
I was a Protestant convert to Novus Ordo Catholic in the early 1980’s. I had no idea at the time that there was anything else. During my 30 years in the Novus Ordo, I felt about half Protestant and half Catholic. When you compare the Nóvus Ordo mass with a Protestant service (especially Lutheran), you see that’s exactly what the Novus Ordo has been…about half Catholic.
It wasn’t until my husband and I found Tradition that I felt fully Catholic. My first time, I just sat and took it in, reveling in the palpable presence of Christ all around me. The Mass made increasing sense over time, and my spiritual life at home and church became increasingly fervent to the point that I, my marriage and family were healed of many problems and issues we had struggled with for years.
If they canceled every traditional mass today, I’d seek out canceled traditional priests and support their ministries. Under no circumstances could or would I ever return to the Novus Ordo. The two masses are as different as day and night, besides which, the Novus Ordo seems now to be morphing into something that only vaguely resembles Catholic worship.
There’s a reason traditional masses are packed with young families. Having had a bit of heaven on earth in the midst of a highly disordered world, it’s not possible to turn your back on it, forget it, and return to darkness. It’s a priceless treasure we are, instead, compelled to attend, share with our loved ones and spread to as many souls as possible.
can anyone tell me wat was that beautiful Latin hymn of hallelujah from the ICKSP mass at 00:42 ? i really want to meditate and pray a rosary whilst that hymn plays. please.
o filii et o filiae (its an easter chant announcing the resurrection so maybe play it while praying the glorious mysteries)
don’t get me wrong the NO is done well it’s not that bad but it strips away that catholic meaning that we’ve had for centuries the Latin Mass will always be timeless
I often feel like I wandered into a protestant church by mistake. Too bad there isn't a Latin Mass near enough for me to attend
For those needing a translation of the TLM. May I suggest purchasing a Father Lasance New Roman Missal 1945 Edition. The English translation and Latin are side by side, It has the Propers of the Saints and much more. You can find a nice new reprint online. The other is the 1962 Roman Missal with this missal you have to flip pages more often, It is more readily available than the Father Lasance.
By the grace of God, I attend an ICKSP parish. Magnificent liturgy, gorgeous schola, & holy priests who have great dignity.
A few times a year, the Canons need to be away, and a N Ordo priest who knows the TLM will sub. They do the liturgy well, but the homilies are NO. Whereas our Canons seek to disappear into Christ, speak with dignity, and rarely say I me or mine, the NO priest subs are intensely self-centered and emotional and talk about their own experiences in sn agitated manner. I remember thinking once, "Does he know that he's screaming?" Quite a contrast.
I've been searching Lutheran mass with Novus Ordo side by side without avail. I've heard about the alleged similarities but have not been able to verify it.
i attend a novus ordo that i consider to be pretty serious, and i stand by that after seeing the NO mass here… oh my Lord i wish i could attend the TLM
Looking at the Novus Ordo side specifically, I would assert that the way in which the priest particularly celebrated Mass was pretty reverent, even if the music wasn't great. The NO church on the right looks beautiful also. I would avoid "liturgy wars" and try to find a good Diocesan church which celebrates "the renewed Liturgy with dignity and fervor" as Paul VI said in a 1976 Secret Consistory, Celebration versus populum or ad orientem does not determine whether the Mass was said reverently or not. I would also say it is unwise and naive to chase after an ICKSP or FSSP church which is almost 2 hours away from you, when you have very decent NOs less than 10 minutes drive.
And also, about the description, I would say do FSSP TLM vs EWTN NO as the way Cantius does both rites really gives no point in comparing the two because they are essentially the same but more importantly, they are both equally reverent.
Well said! I actually was surprised they didn't choose a clown mass for the novus
You can make the Novus Ordo "look like" the Latin Mass, but it is still theologically erroneous. In fact, a "reverent" novus ordo mass is more dangerous because it makes it harder to spot it as being a heretical creation.
Thanks for watching, I'll have to figure out a way to download an FSSP livestream. But I would just add that I would recommend people drive 2 hours to an FSSP or ICKSP because the music at the NO, reception on the hand etc. Even the best Novus Ordo in the country doesn't touch an FSSP Mass in reverence. If a reverent NO is the best you have within 2 hours of you then great.
@@CatholicEdward i don't think reverence is the only factor.. there is also community and Sunday rest which is very very important. Driving 4 hours for something you have 10 mins from home is a sin i think. When is it just for your own esthetical pleasure rather that adoring God? Abuses and clown masses are to be avoided but this one in the video is perfectly fine and doesn't need to waste half the day of the Lord in car travelling
@@mariobaratti2985 It's not about "reverence". It is about the Mass itself and why it was created the way it was. The theology behind the NO mass is flawed no matter how "reverent" it appears to be.
You may hear the TLM Mass on the left every day on the ICKSP Live Channel here: www.youtube.com/@ICKSP
On Sundays, the first Mass is Low Mass, the second is High Mass.
The best of both worlds (novus ordo, 62’ Mass) for the English speaking world by far is the Ordinariate’s Divine Worship.
The 62 mass was the interim mass. But im a big fan of that. I wish they kept that instead of the Novus Ordo Missae
I think the John Cantius comparison you mentioned in the description would be particularly instructive as it's the same church and the same priests, so the rubrical differences would be more emphasized.
Unfortunately this comparison is more accurate, as Cantius is not the typical experience at a typical parish.
@@followerofchristofthetrini1692 this is true but if the aim is to show the rubrical deficiencies in the NO I think the John Cantius video would be more instructive as you could focus less on the ephemeral exterior elements and more on the substance of the mass itself.
Makes sense. I understand your idea now. I agree.
Altar girls is not even a good Novus Ordo. A good Novus Ordo priest would simply refuse to select girls for the altar, since alter service is a means of shadowing a priest and contemplating the priesthood. He's also doing communion in the hand - but at least he has no lay ministers, which the worst NO priests seem to be obsessed with.
Sadly my local church is a NO one, and most of those " Eucharistic ministers" are women, I even got invited to become one. I'm trying to find a Latin Mass I can get to. I'm a convert, but even I find the Latin Mass so much more reverent
Now now slow down there champ. Now you’re just plainly being sexist huy? Are you implying that women can’t be a priest? What a horrible thing to say. They’re strong and independent and can do anything men can. Please be a decent human being.
Lmao I was just joking with you
The general instructions on the New Mass: - says that “The Lord’s supper or Mass is the sacred assembly or congregation of the people of God gathered together, with a Priest presiding, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord”. It calls the Mass a supper, not a sacrifice! It says that the Mass is an assembly of the people, not a renewal of the sacrifice of Calvary. It says that the Priest is a presider, not that he is offering a sacrifice. It says that what is being celebrated is a memorial, not a sacrifice. Bidding prayers that the congregation can make were removed by St. Gregory the Great. Cranmer restored them in the Anglican rite and they reappeared in the Novus Ordo. The New Mass no longer speaks of a victim; it speaks of gifts that are being offered to God. Instead of the offering of a victim you have the blessing of food. Instead of a consecration it is basically a prayer of thanksgiving and a memorial. Instead of the consuming of a victim that has been sacrificed, you have a sharing of food.
Sounds like you’re repeating SSPX talking points. It’s a draft which was later revised.
Honestly, I feel bad for the priest, choir, and cantor at the Novus Ordo Mass- they have all been trained that the Mass is a performance in which they must keep the attention of the “audience.”
Ahh my home parish of St. Stanislaus on the left. Even more beautiful in person.
Milwaukee? ICKSP is coming to my area of Burlington in the near future.
God sees the heart, both rites if said with reverence are pleasing to him. Pope Benedict was correct (God bless his soul), both rites can and should exist side by side so people have a choice to worship him which they find spiritually fulfilling. It's NOT once against the other. Praise be the Holy Name of Jesus!!
I disagree with Pope Benedict XVI, who was a career Modernist, and in his younger days wrote questionable material and attended the VII sessions in a suit and tie. The TLM, a product of centuries of development, as opposed the banal, contrivance whipped up by a Freemason, ( Bugnini), New Theologians, and Protestant advisors, needs no " enrichment," for, in every aspect, the TLM,stands head and shoulders over the new rite. If folks prefer to attend a Protestantized Rite, because it appeals to them, then go for it. Let those who prefer the TLM, because it fulfills what it means to be Catholic, in the fullest sense of the word, continue to attend without suppression, restrictions and persecution. If any Rite is going to disappear, it won't be the Mass of Ages.
It's clear which one is better and in the spirit of the Catholic faith.
I just want to point out that a lot of the features of the Novus Ordo shown here, although common, are not essential parts of the Novus Ordo, and arguably liturgical abuses. Woman lectors and reception on the hand especially; and though I've never heard a strong argument that Ad Populum (the priest facing the people) is technically abuse, it is still not a necessary part of the Novus Ordo. I am not a priest or an acolyte or any kind of clergymember, and I don't know if it is true that the Novus Ordo is bad as people say. But Cardinal Sera's view sounded very plausible to me, and I have seen some priests actually act accordingly; to allow the Latin Mass to inform their manners in the Novus Ordo. A Novus Ordo mass with gregorian chant, Priest Ad Orientam, reception on the tongue, and readings only by acolytes is a world of difference from what we see here.
*I will note however that it is very rare to actually follow the advice of Cardinal Sera; the other commenters are right that the NO mass here is nicer than average. I'm not saying that Sera's views are generally followed in the NO world. I'm just saying that it seems to me that they should be.
Was interesting to see which liturgy encouraged the participation of the faithful.
Both do. The NO Mass encourages recitation of words and songs. The Latin Mass encourages deep, completive prayer.
@@JamesVideoCollection You guys are so in denial, it's not even funny.
A missa tradicional é voltada somente a Cristo. NO ela parece mais voltada aos homens, triste.
I love the TLM. That was a good Novus Ordo. I kind of feel sad that the NO Priest and Laity are doing the best they can with what they got.
Both are holy and true. Express the same truth in different ways. I once was really against the New Mass, and I looked down upon it, be I grow to love it, especially when it is celebrated according to the rubrics. I was proud for dismissing a liturgy given by the Church.
In the Novus Ordo, the priest has become a protestant tv evangelist, which was pretty much the goal. You cannot make concessions to invite our "lost protestant brethren" and expect the mass, the priest, and the faithful to remain Catholic. Honestly...who in the world wants to sing cheesy songs like that, and TRY to retain some semblance of sublime and divine thoughts?
I wish there was a ICKSP or FSSP parish near me. I love my priests at my NO parish close to my home and I'm getting to know a lot of great people there, but sometimes it's not the most reverent Mass. A bit further away is a parish that has a Latin NO but I would still love the opportunity to see an actual TLM.
Looks like Catholic mass on the left and Protestant service on the right. No surprise I self exiled for 41 years until finding TLM and the mass of the ages.
The Traditional Latin Mass, the holiest of worships this side of heaven!
They’re both beautiful in their own way. There’s no need to bash one another or restrict one another
I'll take a hotel low Mass over the "best" NO every day.
same! there's something about being hidden away at a secret underground Latin Mass that makes it even cooler. I've had an experience like that recently
@@CatholicEdward I wish I could experience that, in fact it has been discussed through out the DC archdiocese because of TLM restrictions. Also, the SSPX held a hotel mass during the M4L(March For Life) but I wasn't able to attend because my exams were on that day. Pax Tecum.
It is what it is. Now Catholics can choose which type Liturgy they would like to attend. There are still very many of us "old" members who were immersed in the Latin Rite and it is hard for some to accept and/or change to the New Mass. The newer generation doesn't know the difference since Latin was not in their upbringing. Just be sincere in whichever worship you choose.
Latin mass is so reverent. That's not to say I appreciate the Norvus Ordo form. It's just I think I can prepare myself for the eucharist a bit better in the trad mass because I can also pray unceasingly due to not understanding the latin, but trusting it's meaning.
I only wish you showed the people sitting behind the camera view. that place will be packed with so many young families, so many kids so many males and females even with our children. and the median age no joke 35 or 40.
Yes, I attend an ICKSP parish, and we have tons of young families with a lot of kids.
@@EpoRose1 yes and I try to attend that Oratory/Parish in MKE when I can for Low or High Mass. ICKSP for the Win. I only wish your average catholic could attend a place like this more often. Your mind can't handle in a good way what you see, smell and hear. Brings me to tears and freezes my mind while my heart burst open.
If you're looking for ideas, an Ambrosian Rite mass or a Maronite mass might be interesting, at least in my opinion
This particular set of side-by-side will reinforce the usual arguments. Pro-N.O. "oh at least I can understand what the priest is saying". Pro-TLM "it's more reverent". In this case, no English was spoken, so will fuel the argument that "we don't know what is going on". At some TLMs, the readings are in English, the rest of the liturgy is Latin.
As reverent and beautiful TLM is, we cannot take away the power and love of God from any Mass being celebrated. The Mass is the same sacrifice of our Lord, which no man is able to tarnish or disgrace. Please respect whichever way the Mass is being celebrated as God can work through peoples hearts regardless of tradition or rite. Praise God for his loving mercy😊. I appreciate the insightful fairness of this video. May God inspire more people to attend either with Faith.
NO feels like a reduction of what makes Mass, Mass. It's this open, thinned out version of a SACRED sacrament. I agree with your sentiments, but it needs a sense of mystery and sanctity. It's also dependent on the priest as well.
If there hadnt been ICKSP to go to when i sought to return to Christ, I'd be Orthodox today.
May the Institute Of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, prosper, grow, attract good Catholic families and formulate good Catholic priests. God give them many graces!!!
All I see is to valid and approved Catholic Roman Rites. They are both good and full of grace.
@@thecalderasiblings7198 Indeed
Novus Ordo is something that was done on the fly and it shows. it's a disgrace to the Almighty and the faithful. Time to return.
Cantius TLM vs Cantius NO would be a really good idea. you will notice the difference
Ironically, by attending the NO at Cantius (and other places where they do the NO in Latin) the problems of the new rite vis-a-vis the TLM became crystal clear.
Normally people focus on the different aesthetics of the rites, but even when that is accounted for, the NO is a far more static, linear and rationalist ritual than the TLM (which is admittedly already simplified from its medieval versions). Moreover if one understands Latin, the NO still has the same problematic prayers, no matter the language!
Are both ICKSP? Title is a bit confusing
Does anyone have the link of the NO mass?
I would like to ask, if one doesn’t speak Latin, why should they attend a TLM? I’m basically just there to listen to some music and a sermon. How is that different to what we have in non-denominational mega-churches of today (at least there I can understand the music). I have nothing against a Latin mass, but only for those who know how to speak it.
@@mmtoss6530 That’s a great question, first of all if you don’t know Latin you can buy a Missal and follow along in Latin and read the translation which is a start at learning Latin. The goal is to know more and more Latin over time. But ultimately attending the TLM is about going to the Mass that nourished the spiritual lives of most of the Saints. It’s about reverence for the Eucharist and the truths of the Faith that the TLM communicates.
The thing is, there's no rule which holds back many of the beautiful features of the traditional ritual from being used in the Ordinary Form today. It simply has lost widespread use because of the cultural movements of the 20th century, in which many within the Church felt that it should be less opulent for fear of appearing too high and mighty. Nothing in the documents of Vatican II or the liturgical reforms prohibit use of the Latin language, ornate worship spaces and vestments, chanting of the Ordinary and Propers of the Mass, ad orientem celebration, chanting of readings and prayers, or use of incense. At most, many of these things have been made no longer required by the rubrics, and they are often still strongly encouraged. I have great hope with the arrival of new priests and lay faithful with a rejuvenated love for the rituals of the Roman rite that we will see more Masses celebrated with the centuries-old trappings of Western Christian worship. In the meantime, I will continue to lend my services to my parish in obedience and reverence to the authority of my pastor and the Roman tradition.
As a side thought, I think it may be more influential and less cordoned-off from the rest of the Church if the faithful TLM communities made efforts to have Masses according to the missal of the Ordinary Form with the same standards of ritual that they use in the older form. We need more examples of what the Novus Ordo can look like, or else people may continue to create contrasts between the two missals that aren't actually defining differences.
Why can't we find joy and grace on both forms? I can't shake the fact that the TLM is the form of mass that saw our country through its colonial past.
Whenever I have to attend the NO, I consider it a penance, especially as a professional classical singer.
There is a magnificent novus ordo mass I’ve attended in all fairness that is run by some Opus Dei priests. However there is no competition TLM is superior in every way.
Among other things, that bareheaded, woman, traipsing around Cranmer's Table, is most offensive and offputting.
0:50 Jesus is at that NO mass like, "come on man"
I just realized all the art and stained glass they show footage of isn't in that Church
@@CatholicEdward ah. that would make sense
I prefer the TLM but I do like the NO when it's done right. I'm glad that these Societies of Apostolic Life such as the ICKSP, FSSP, Oratory of St Phillip Neri exist as they're often very passionate about celebrating the mass to a high standard which is very important. It brings people back to the church as well as bringing new people into the church.
What is the prayer in the first 5 seconds of the video ? Thank you very much.
th-cam.com/video/vimOJQUmcpg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Nicklas
Hey Nicklas, what is the chant at the beginning of your videos? I've been trying to find the exact one. God bless.
That's the litany of the Sacred Heart in Latin, Thanks for watching! God Bless
I don't think video masses that have the choir and the organist and the audience in the picture very prayerful. As a side by side example it isn't a mass video because it is distracting but it does show what the Novus Ordo is lacking and that is very important.
The first mass after Jesus resurrected Luke 24 27-32
Said on the road to Emmaus which is west of Jerusalem. A mass on the road and communion given to them. Not in a church, not in Latin, not ad orientum, not with his back towards them. Would you reject this mass because it doesn’t follow TLM or NO? Would Judaic followers who converted reject it because there was no veil between them and the tabernacle?
We can appreciate how the mass has evolved over time but must stick to what the basics of the mass are … a teaching from scripture, a Re-presentation of Calvary in memory of Jesus, taught to all nations in a language they could understand.
The NO gift to people is the ability to understand all the readings, psalms and gospel in their language. This includes the typology between the OT and the NT with the first reading, psalm and the gospel. The bloodless sacrifice of the mass and communion.
Poor tlm priest really needed to clear his throat during the gospel.
Is this ICKSP mass from the ICKSP church in Chicago?
St Stanislaus, Milwaukee WI
I actually like both each one has strengh and weakness thats why i loved the heralds of the gospel mass becase their use many latin mass chants but most of the mass is novus ordo also as Brazilian im proud of the heralds being founded by us
Both are great
As a former Protestant, hearing Catholics sing 10,000 Reasons by Matt Redman is so odd and off putting because as much as I liked that song during my time as a Protestant, it just seems strange for a Catholic Parish to use a Protestant worship song.
Well not to bash TLM, but I can see how protestants could bash us over the head with "You don't read your bibles" if your a cradle catholic in a TLM Parish because you never actually hear the bible in the language you understand. I am sure there is a English missal to understand whats being said, but how many are actually doing that. Never been to the TLM due to the lack in my area.
"Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam"!
In the words of one Jesuit I spoke with "we lost generations...".
I can easily see at NO masses that there are more older people than young families. At TLM masses there are a great many young families attending. Why on earth would you want to destroy that?! It is very clear that Pope Francis is totally out of touch with local churches throughout the world along with a great many bishops and cardinals. It's easy for him to many fancy speeches and deep sounding words, but in reality people are heading towards the doors. We are loosing generations of young Catholics and bishops STILL don't get it.
I am a young Catholic who wants to start going to the TLM but I have none in my area, any advice for going to my first one. BTW does anyone know thew chant they used for the entrance I sounded beautiful.
You could look up the Mass of the ages map and find the closest to you. Might have to drive a ways but that's typical and try to go to a High/Sung Mass and don't read along, just enjoy it the first time.
At least show a video of a traditional Norvus Ordo 😞
it isn't Latin Mass unless there's a baby crying in the back.
novus ordo misse is just a protestant form of prey
God is God and your faith full of does❤❤✝️✝️🗣️
It's nice to see an average NO mass depicted, and not the typical cherry-picked pseudomass of progressive priests. NO it's beautiful when done according to the GIRM. I do prefer ad orientem, but the initial parts of the mass in the 1962 missal are just absurd. I mean, i bet most people before V2 didn't even know that there are penitential rites during the mass... Not to mention the fact that all the lectures are done in latin, as if anyone today speaks latin. As far as I am concerned we should strike a compromise with a reverent NO (which can be in latin) and stop fighting about the return of some petty prayers that only the priest knows. That way we could oppose much better the real liturgical crimes.
Novus Ordu described by Christ to Ann Catherine Emmerich as 'this is babe.l'
If in Doubt, go back to Tradition.
La messa di S. Pio V è quella vera (rito straordinario)
La messa nuova è solo uno spettacolo teatrale (rito NON ordinario)
Lutero dall'inferno tra un supplizio e l'altro se la ride........
This novus ordus is honestly is it bad nor good
Not abused nor reverent
Just some average novus ordus
The V2 mass is not a sacrifice but rather a commemorative supper, All 7 sacraments were changed not just the mass. The priests are invalid like the mass. Its not the Catholic church but rather the end times counterfeit church
become Eastern Orthodox. WE don't destroy our liturgy
It is important to stay in the Ark of Salvation. We have Eastern Rite Catholic Churches with the Divine Liturgy.
I go to icksp
Today I witnessed a Eucharistic minister access the tabernacle to store away the chalice.
This is not how Novus Ordo should be celebrated! Take a good example not the baddest one in the diocese
That's actually not a bad example, the music is a little new agey because its a middle school choir but the Mass it's self is pretty run of the mill NO. For a good example refer to my other video in my series. Thanks for watching. th-cam.com/video/e-Aisxi_aNQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Nicklas
This Novus Ordo is better than the best one of my diocese! What sre you talking about?
jum esa misa novus ordo es super decente al lado de las aberraciones que le toca a uno aguantarse, al menos le cura hce genuflexión al tabernáculo, acá ni tabernáculo hay.
At least compare it to a chanted Novus Ordo
Icksp accepts novus ordo like a legal mass😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The ICKSP has not bad-mouthed the NO mass at least at the apostolate(s) I attend that they care for. Their goal is in saving souls and concentrate on people living a true Catholic life. The ICKSP does not bother with any political or anti-Pope Francis activities. Their institute continues to grow while NO seminaries are slowly dying away.
@@joefranks4235 they accept errors of Council and N.O. mass. It is a big error. Stop.
@@grifogrifo1067sounds like Sedavacantist nonsense but ok
Latin mass >>> novus ordo.
Night and day...
The NO sung Gloria is always, always, always a musical travesty; a disaster of epic proportions and an embarrassment to the very concept of music. I cringe at the banality and lack of artistry in the attempt to turn a spoken prayer into a song with a chorus. It never works. I hate that more than almost any other part of the NO and I hate many other parts. God help us. After 2,000 years this is the best we've got? Please, just stop.
goodbye novos ordo